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[Patch 1.0.0.125: Riven] General Discussion - Page 166

Forum Index > LoL General
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arnath
Profile Joined May 2010
United States1317 Posts
September 29 2011 04:25 GMT
#3301
L O L

Went on a 6 game losing streak to drop to 1480 (partly me playing bad, partly some real dumb teammates). Won a game or two, then played a game where our Caitlyn was literally DC'd all game. The other team surrendered at 20 minutes ...
SnK-Arcbound
Profile Joined March 2005
United States4423 Posts
September 29 2011 04:53 GMT
#3302
I play shen support bot. Q harass is usually enough to keep people away, and hits hard like sona. Taunt is great for getting people off your carry or running. The only problem is his tool set blows. Damage, shield, taunt, shield just doesn't cut it. I can't think of any other tanks that only have one damaging ability.

I prefer all the nonstandard supports bot. Zil, ali, shen. Much more fun (note zil support sucks if they have someone that matches your range).
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
September 29 2011 05:21 GMT
#3303
On September 29 2011 13:53 SnK-Arcbound wrote:
I prefer all the nonstandard supports bot. Zil, ali, shen. Much more fun (note zil support sucks if they have someone that matches your range).

Zil support sucks because he's so damn good as an AP carry and is insane with blue buff.
Moderator
UniversalSnip
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
9871 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-29 05:53:31
September 29 2011 05:53 GMT
#3304
that he's a sick carry doesn't make him worse at support, just makes you less likely to pick him in that role. they're not the same thing
"How fucking dare you defile the sanctity of DotA with your fucking casual plebian terminology? May the curse of Gaben and Volvo be upon you. le filthy casual."
Cixah
Profile Joined July 2010
United States11285 Posts
September 29 2011 05:54 GMT
#3305
Zilean is a very good character because if you try and play him as both an AP Carry and Support in the same game you contribute way more.

And by play both I mean only buy 5 items and then like a billion wards.
Hug The Goat! Hug the Goat! Hug the Goat!
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-29 06:04:05
September 29 2011 05:58 GMT
#3306
On September 29 2011 14:53 UniversalSnip wrote:
that he's a sick carry doesn't make him worse at support, just makes you less likely to pick him in that role. they're not the same thing

I'm assuming he means playing Zilean as a "support" in the sense of playing him bottom lane, with no farm. Which is terrible because Zilean scales so well off of having farm and having blue buff--and does comparatively poorly without blue buff; it's a waste to put him in a role where he can't contend for it.

As a pure support, Zilean needs to devote his itemization to getting mana and CDR. Which means he wastes his Q, and the absurd scaling on his R. Compared to supports that have kits that function entirely without needing to itemize for specific stats, and who have spells that aren't half-baked without having AP, there's very little reason to play Zilean that way.
Moderator
zalz
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Netherlands3704 Posts
September 29 2011 06:02 GMT
#3307
I used to think Zilean was a good support but now im leaning a lot more towards him being a mid champ.

He just needs his gold to really get crazy and he is simply great on the mid with his massive range and double bombing. The blue on Zilean is just ridiculous. If the other guy isn't getting a blue Zilean should be winning by a landslide.


I think when the bottom settup changes from support+AD to something else, we might see Zilean mid becoming way more popular. He is best played starting out as an AP carry and slowly setteling into a more support role in the endgame. A support that happens to be able to dish out a ton of damage.
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-29 06:09:22
September 29 2011 06:05 GMT
#3308
On September 29 2011 15:02 zalz wrote:
I think when the bottom settup changes from support+AD to something else, we might see Zilean mid becoming way more popular. He is best played starting out as an AP carry and slowly setteling into a more support role in the endgame. A support that happens to be able to dish out a ton of damage.

He's banned in the vast majority of the games between CLG/TSM/EG/CRS/RS. It's a complete mystery to me why his strength hasn't trickled down to lower level 5s play (or why European teams don't ban him 100% of the time when they play against US teams; every game in the SB tournament where Jiji or Regi got Zilean has been a complete manhandling)--other than perhaps the fact that peoples' opinions of champs are far too driven by solo queue.
Moderator
Seiuchi
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States931 Posts
September 29 2011 06:25 GMT
#3309
On September 29 2011 15:05 TheYango wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 29 2011 15:02 zalz wrote:
I think when the bottom settup changes from support+AD to something else, we might see Zilean mid becoming way more popular. He is best played starting out as an AP carry and slowly setteling into a more support role in the endgame. A support that happens to be able to dish out a ton of damage.

He's banned in the vast majority of the games between CLG/TSM/EG/CRS/RS. It's a complete mystery to me why his strength hasn't trickled down to lower level 5s play (or why European teams don't ban him 100% of the time when they play against US teams; every game in the SB tournament where Jiji or Regi got Zilean has been a complete manhandling)--other than perhaps the fact that peoples' opinions of champs are far too driven by solo queue.


Of course peoples' opinions of champs are driven by solo queue, that's where players get the majority of their practice no matter how much better they've gotten at scrimming lately. Every champ that comes out in competitive play has dozens of solo queue games behind it.

That being said, Zil doesn't come out in lower level 5s probably because he requires more decision making and people just don't practice him because he's not a top solo queue pick. Top NA teams have practiced him enough where they don't need to play him lately, but someone below that level isn't going to throw out the Zil pick when they have experience on Brand/Annie/etc.
lynx.oblige
Profile Joined August 2009
Sierra Leone2268 Posts
September 29 2011 07:05 GMT
#3310
On September 29 2011 13:53 SnK-Arcbound wrote:
I play shen support bot. Q harass is usually enough to keep people away, and hits hard like sona. Taunt is great for getting people off your carry or running. The only problem is his tool set blows. Damage, shield, taunt, shield just doesn't cut it. I can't think of any other tanks that only have one damaging ability.

I prefer all the nonstandard supports bot. Zil, ali, shen. Much more fun (note zil support sucks if they have someone that matches your range).


Uh, Ali is standard support in my book.
Everyone needs a nemesis.
RogerX
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
New Zealand3180 Posts
September 29 2011 07:12 GMT
#3311
Just bought Singed and played him for the first time (I'm level 30 but I don't wanna play him cus he felt boring to me, hell was I wrong) I'm in love...

CHEMISTRY OF LOVE AND PAIN
Stick it up. take it up. step aside and see the world
zalz
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Netherlands3704 Posts
September 29 2011 07:15 GMT
#3312
I plain Singed with a brain, perhaps a good reason as to why i do so poorly with him.

When i see my friends play him they do the most ridiculous stuff but when i play him i can't help but play him like any other champion.
RogerX
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
New Zealand3180 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-29 07:20:14
September 29 2011 07:20 GMT
#3313
On September 29 2011 16:15 zalz wrote:
I plain Singed with a brain, perhaps a good reason as to why i do so poorly with him.

When i see my friends play him they do the most ridiculous stuff but when i play him i can't help but play him like any other champion.


Makes sense, his playstyle is quite unique from your average melee/tank/dps. But he is actually quite damn easy once you reach rod of ages Q is so awesome

I play singed without a brai.......duhhh.......
Stick it up. take it up. step aside and see the world
zer0das
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
United States8519 Posts
September 29 2011 07:34 GMT
#3314
On September 29 2011 16:15 zalz wrote:
I plain Singed with a brain, perhaps a good reason as to why i do so poorly with him.

When i see my friends play him they do the most ridiculous stuff but when i play him i can't help but play him like any other champion.


Welcome to the wild side.
Inschato
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
Canada1349 Posts
September 29 2011 08:22 GMT
#3315
I don't like Zilean because playing him actually requires so much more intense focus and reaction times compared to almost any other champion, it's almost like playing starcraft with him sometimes, between his speed buff making him so zippy, and his ultimate requiring precise timing and targeting.
3.
Argoth.
Profile Joined December 2004
Germany1961 Posts
September 29 2011 08:24 GMT
#3316
yeah singed has to be one of my favorite melee champs. People tend to underestimate the amount of damage poison can do over time and his CC is just too funny. Messing with the enemie's positioning with fling and adhesives while being quite durable thanks to the ultimate is just ridiculously funny
And paired with cassiopeia it's just lol^^
UniversalSnip
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
9871 Posts
September 29 2011 08:59 GMT
#3317
On September 29 2011 14:58 TheYango wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 29 2011 14:53 UniversalSnip wrote:
that he's a sick carry doesn't make him worse at support, just makes you less likely to pick him in that role. they're not the same thing

I'm assuming he means playing Zilean as a "support" in the sense of playing him bottom lane, with no farm. Which is terrible because Zilean scales so well off of having farm and having blue buff--and does comparatively poorly without blue buff; it's a waste to put him in a role where he can't contend for it.

As a pure support, Zilean needs to devote his itemization to getting mana and CDR. Which means he wastes his Q, and the absurd scaling on his R. Compared to supports that have kits that function entirely without needing to itemize for specific stats, and who have spells that aren't half-baked without having AP, there's very little reason to play Zilean that way.


Oh he's not a good support, I'm just saying the fact that's he's a good ap carry doesn't make him any worse at supporting. If the question is 'why not run support teemo?' the answer isn't 'because he destroys bruisers top', it's 'because he's a horrible support.' It's good to correctly compartmentalize your thinking about roles rather than using the shortcut of making false comparisons.
"How fucking dare you defile the sanctity of DotA with your fucking casual plebian terminology? May the curse of Gaben and Volvo be upon you. le filthy casual."
spinesheath
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
Germany8679 Posts
September 29 2011 09:01 GMT
#3318
On September 29 2011 11:59 Liquid`Tyler wrote:
mobility and natural ability to kill tanks is so strong! and the stuns from E so strong!

Kinda expected for a Poppy player to do well with Vayne.
How are you not #1 on the ladder though...
If you have a good reason to disagree with the above, please tell me. Thank you.
Craton
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
United States17303 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-29 09:07:04
September 29 2011 09:04 GMT
#3319
It's a complete mystery to me why his strength hasn't trickled down to lower level 5s play

Zil is garbage at low Elo and in uncoordinated teams. Premade 5v5 will tell the person to stay in and ult them*, while Solo 5v5 will have that person flash out as they get ulted and waste it. Low Elo will miss the ult altogether.

*Unless it's Shushei, in which case he's too busy trolling xPeke to actually have ult ready.
twitch.tv/cratonz
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
September 29 2011 09:09 GMT
#3320
On September 29 2011 18:04 Craton wrote:
Show nested quote +
It's a complete mystery to me why his strength hasn't trickled down to lower level 5s play

Zil is garbage at low Elo and in uncoordinated teams. Premade 5v5 will tell the person to stay in and ult them*, while Solo 5v5 will have that person flash out as they get ulted and waste it. Low Elo will miss the ult altogether.

*Unless it's Shushei, in which case he's too busy trolling xPeke to actually have ult ready.

The thing is, I feel like it works both ways--because just as much as at low Elo, Zil ults are sloppy, teams play sloppily AGAINST Zil ult as well. Even if you ult somebody at like 40%, uncoordinated teams are very unlikely to switch focus properly.
Moderator
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