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8751 Posts
On August 17 2011 23:58 Southlight wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2011 23:53 Liquid`Tyler wrote:On August 17 2011 23:33 Roffles wrote:
Shield makes Pantheon hit like a truck. Slow + knockup good for not letting kids run from Panth.
What more do you want? Lux would be pretty nice too. Lux would be good but... *sobs* unfortunately unlike Janna she needs farm.
Yeah but there's gotta be some point where it's worth it right? Depending how hard you win the lane.
5 ways to "win" bot: get a kill on enemy bot, make enemy ganks fail, zone enemy bot, get 1st dragon, get tower. Whether or not Lux and Janna farm lvls 1-7 doesn't much affect their ability to accomplish those things. So before farm starts to matter, Lux is equal with Janna in the "doesn't need farm" department. Depending how much more she can accomplish than Janna during that time, I think it's possible that it's worth having an underfarmed Lux in midgame. If Lux really would be that much better than Janna early on, then it's a classic strong early game comp that must do its work early to be worth it.
I don't think an underfarmed Lux is that horrible. Her kit is actually pretty similar to Janna's, except for the ults of course. But the root works very similarly (sometimes better) to knockup, and she has an AE slow with a longer range for retreating, no steroid shield but an AE shield not bad, and an ultra-offensive / creep clearing ult rather than janna's insane ult. Even without farm, her AE damage can be pretty punishing. Not anything like Annie/Brand/Orianna will be doing, but setting up the damage with Q and adding a lot of supplemental damage can be a bigger contribution than other supports provide.
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Intrix ran commentary on the EU LP vent last night on DotA for LoL newbs. Not sure if the same is going on today. =P
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On August 18 2011 00:49 Liquid`Tyler wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2011 23:58 Southlight wrote:On August 17 2011 23:53 Liquid`Tyler wrote:On August 17 2011 23:33 Roffles wrote:
Shield makes Pantheon hit like a truck. Slow + knockup good for not letting kids run from Panth.
What more do you want? Lux would be pretty nice too. Lux would be good but... *sobs* unfortunately unlike Janna she needs farm. Yeah but there's gotta be some point where it's worth it right? Depending how hard you win the lane. 5 ways to "win" bot: get a kill on enemy bot, make enemy ganks fail, zone enemy bot, get 1st dragon, get tower. Whether or not Lux and Janna farm lvls 1-7 doesn't much affect their ability to accomplish those things. So before farm starts to matter, Lux is equal with Janna in the "doesn't need farm" department. Depending how much more she can accomplish than Janna during that time, I think it's possible that it's worth having an underfarmed Lux in midgame. If Lux really would be that much better than Janna early on, then it's a classic strong early game comp that must do its work early to be worth it. I don't think an underfarmed Lux is that horrible. Her kit is actually pretty similar to Janna's, except for the ults of course. But the root works very similarly (sometimes better) to knockup, and she has an AE slow with a longer range for retreating, no steroid shield but an AE shield not bad, and an ultra-offensive / creep clearing ult rather than janna's insane ult. Even without farm, her AE damage can be pretty punishing. Not anything like Annie/Brand/Orianna will be doing, but setting up the damage with Q and adding a lot of supplemental damage can be a bigger contribution than other supports provide.
This isn't so much an indictment of Lux, it's more that Pantheon desperately needs the farm, similar to bot lane Ashe. There're some heroes that simply *require* solo-type farm. Which is a mechanic I am completely fine with, by the way, as it should be a "choice" to select a solo-type farmer bot along with a zero-farm hero. Just putting that out of the way.
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Lux is okay for pantheon but unnecessary. Her brush control shenanigans can be accomplished by just dropping a ward on the brush, and then pantheon can go nuts.
Lux bot lane does work, in some case, but I think generally the ideal way to play lux is to pin the other pair back to their tower and then repeatedly bomb them with lux's E at their tower. Pantheon doesn't really compliment this.
Though I really prefer the "rush level 16" lux and then become unfair with the 24-second laser pew pew.
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On August 18 2011 00:58 Juicyfruit wrote:
Lux is okay for pantheon but unnecessary. Her brush control shenanigans can be accomplished by just dropping a ward on the brush, and then pantheon can go nuts.
Lux bot lane does work, in some case, but I think generally the ideal way to play lux is to pin the other pair back to their tower and then repeatedly bomb them with lux's E at their tower. Pantheon doesn't really compliment this.
Though I really prefer the "rush level 16" lux and then become unfair with the 24-second laser pew pew.
Pantheon is the ultimate towerdiver, so he actually compliments that better than you'd think. I think Pantheon Taric and Pantheon Janna are both stronger on paper though.
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On August 18 2011 00:58 Juicyfruit wrote:
Though I really prefer the "rush level 16" lux and then become unfair with the 24-second laser pew pew.
This is kind of ironic to me considering you're the one who kept trying roaming lux with 0 farm, being like 4 lvls lower than everyone else midgame lol
But not just on paper, but ingame taric/janna are stronger supports for panth than lux, ali, etc. Really panth just needs either damage amplification in some way to burst people even more, or good reliable CC so he can do a full HSS + auto with spears thrown in there. Taric gives him Apen with shatter + reliable point and click stun. Janna gives him AD from shield + CC with a slow and knockup. So they're simply the best picks for him imo.
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Taric and Nidalee changes can be found here
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24 seconds lvl 1 on taric heal... Wow
Nidalee just got buffed like crazy....
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Look at the bright side, AS/CDR Taric can heal every second if he finds a chamption that is safe to pummel.
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My Pink Shiny Prince 
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I really don't see anything wrong with sustain
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still sore from Irelia ultnerf?
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Nothing seems terrible there. I think its net buffs for nid actually.
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Nidalee's Javelin will become the #1 most annoying skill in the game.
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That nidalee AP nerf on her heal is HUGE.
That was the most annoying part of her. Going to be interesting to see how she pans out.
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On August 18 2011 01:43 BlackPaladin wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2011 00:58 Juicyfruit wrote:
Though I really prefer the "rush level 16" lux and then become unfair with the 24-second laser pew pew. This is kind of ironic to me considering you're the one who kept trying roaming lux with 0 farm, being like 4 lvls lower than everyone else midgame lol.
Haha it's not so much ironic...more like me trying and failing repeatedly is how I know something doesn't work too well >.> so I advocate the opposite.
And Nid...yea that's a pretty heavy buff there mostly because while her heal is heavily impaired, her mid-game domination with blue buff is going to be much stronger to the point where I dunno what you can do about it.
I don't really mind these changes, but I don't feel the various changes are very equal among the different supports >.> Like, for Taric, how is it even worth it to level up heal at this point because it's not even mana-efficient.
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How exactly is that a huge buff to Nidalee? Her heal got pretty fucked (nearly doubled the mana cost at max level and nearly halved the AP ratio) which wrecks her lane sustain which was one of the best things about her. 20 armor/MR still too little to make you able to actually be in Panther in team fights.
Pounce CDR and lower spear cooldown are nice but now instead of being a spear/heal bot, you're just a spear bot.
EDIT: Also, soooo happy they're lowering the heals for bottom lane support. So fed up of this stupid meta where you're virtually incapable of playing anything without a heal in bottom (aka Janna).
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On August 18 2011 03:07 arnath wrote:
How exactly is that a huge buff to Nidalee? Her heal got pretty fucked (nearly doubled the mana cost at max level and nearly halved the AP ratio) which wrecks her lane sustain which was one of the best things about her. 20 armor/MR still too little to make you able to actually be in Panther in team fights.
Pounce CDR and lower spear cooldown are nice but now instead of being a spear/heal bot, you're just a spear bot.
EDIT: Also, soooo happy they're lowering the heals for bottom lane support. So fed up of this stupid meta where you're virtually incapable of playing anything without a heal in bottom (aka Janna).
Nidalee's lane sustain was strong but even as of now, for Nidalee to heavily push out and dominate her lane opponent, blue buff is, more often than not, necessary. Other than that, if you try to fight any of the strong laners as the current nid, you will break even at best with your sustain and you still cannot commit without a lot of good poking first. In other words, it has been a long time since the sustain helped nidalee dominate any strong lane because everyone else can either just nuke the shit out of her in 1-go and then ignite to cut the heal, or have better sustain in lane that does not cost them anything.
The main problem with nid is that she can't exactly do anything vs strong enemies even if she can sustain. Her overall damage buff and a little extra tankiness might actually help her come out ahead more after trade in cougar form.
Aside from that, consider her 1v1 assassination potential compared to before. Her cougar DPS is much stronger than before. This means that once you grab a blue buff, it becomes MUCH easier to pick off targets with your W and E buffs.
Spears of doom, more spears more $$$
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Cd on pounce. Lolololol mobility, stronger dmg, stronger cougar for mid game. Mana and cd decreased on spears. lololol spears.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://i52.tinypic.com/25qx1s1.jpg)
