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sRapers_ValkS
United States644 Posts
On August 14 2011 04:35 HPoirot wrote: Pretty good SK vs. Millennium game going on right now. Yellowstar's Kog'maw is nice. PGB replaced Doublelift on EG. ahh that's a bummer. and yeah yellowstar's kog is sick. double kill on passive was funny, as was his flash triple kill | ||
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Niton
United States2395 Posts
On August 14 2011 04:13 TheYango wrote: They can't use Salce at MLG because EG is actually in MLG (they're not at Gamescom, which is why they got Salce to sub for Chauster), meaning Salce is going to play for them. And while they make Elementz play support, it's sort of apparent he doesn't really want to be, and is not very good at it. Chauster is a way, way better Taric - Hotshot is also better (but still below role). Saintvicious plays a pretty good Soraka, idk about their other players. Saint, Kobe and Jiji can all play Alistar because of AP / Jungle Alistar's existence. No idea about Janna. Ever notice how CLG picks Sona a whole lot, even when it's not neccesarily the best pick? Elementz is the biggest reason for that. He can kind of play Janna too, but he's probably their weakest player at every other role, so he's stuck on Support.. which he doesn't enjoy playing, as you said. I don't know how CLG can fix that in the short term, either - there's not a whole lot of support players out there, and because people place such a high value on being a carry to get to high Elo (in part thanks to Hotshot's stream), it's not a situation that I expect to change on NA all that soon. | ||
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Craton
United States17250 Posts
On August 14 2011 04:13 TheYango wrote: They can't use Salce at MLG because EG is actually in MLG (they're not at Gamescom, which is why they got Salce to sub for Chauster), meaning Salce is going to play for them. And while they make Elementz play support, it's sort of apparent he doesn't really want to be, and is not very good at it. Well I meant they could get a substitute AP, not Salce in particular. | ||
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Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
On August 14 2011 04:48 Craton wrote: Well I meant they could get a substitute AP, not Salce in particular. So you're saying that a team is well off if they need to rely on a substitute player? O.K. And it's interesting that you say we don't keep up well with CLG when Kobe actually is their main jungler and Chauster plays some AP just as well as AD, he also can play tanky dps. But they still have the problem I talked about: Chauster is their only player that can play AD and AP. They can't have Elementz play AP or they'll have no support, and Hotshotgg AP is very subpar. | ||
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Niton
United States2395 Posts
Edit: Shikyo, Jiji can play both as well. Corki/Vayne/Ashe on the AD side, just about everything on the AP side. CLG players' capable roles are as follows: Chauster: AD; AP Jiji: AD; AP HotshotGG: Top Lane, Taric (kind of) Saintvicious: Bottom Lane (not just support), Jungler Kobe24: Jungler Elementz: Support (kind of) Elementz is by far the weakest link on CLG, I can't think of a single support that he plays on par with or better than the big-name support players on other teams. You look at Chauster, Jiji, Hotshot and Kobe as amazing at their roles, Saintvicious as very well-rounded, and Elementz as.. that. | ||
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On August 14 2011 04:48 Craton wrote: Well I meant they could get a substitute AP, not Salce in particular. Who would they get? Jiji, Regi, Salce, and Pobelter are IMO pretty convincingly ahead of whoever else they'd find for AP carry on overall skill and flexibility, at least drawing from the NA pool of players. | ||
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Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
On August 14 2011 04:57 Niton wrote: Thinking about it, I think Elementz should try massgaming Lux - she's not quite the idea of support that the current meta fits, but I think with the right laning partners she could be very strong. Plus he can actually play Lux, which is a bonus. I think the next evolution of the game is going to be more farmed supports, because all of them do some pretty amazing things with a few thousand extra gold. Edit: Shikyo, Jiji can play both as well. Corki/Vayne/Ashe on the AD side, just about everything on the AP side. CLG players' capable roles are as follows: Chauster: AD; AP Jiji: AD; AP HotshotGG: Top Lane, Taric (kind of) Saintvicious: Bottom Lane (not just support), Jungler Kobe24: Jungler Elementz: Support (kind of) Elementz is by far the weakest link on CLG, I can't think of a single support that he plays on par with or better than the big-name support players on other teams. You look at Chauster, Jiji, Hotshot and Kobe as amazing at their roles, Saintvicious as very well-rounded, and Elementz as.. that. I know Jiji can play both, Jiji can play everything but jungler, but he's not with them...... I think Kobe can play AP caster as well but I'm not sure how well... been ages since I saw him play that, maybe nowadays he only plays jungler. But yeah as you can see from your own list, they have no AD carry if Chauster plays AP, and if Chauster plays AD they'll have a subpar AP. | ||
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lynx.oblige
Sierra Leone2268 Posts
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Niton
United States2395 Posts
On August 14 2011 05:06 lynx.oblige wrote: How many of you actually know the players well enough to really say who they are really good with? I've only heard of Loco ever even playing with them. Just by looking at preferred roles, both inside and outside of tournaments, you can get a feel for the champions people both enjoy playing and can play. I can't speak for the specific champions INSIDE the roles, but it's not hard to see what roles people can play well that they like playing. | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On August 14 2011 04:39 UniversalSnip wrote: wriggles really doesn't help pheonix udyr much in any way at all, if you need sustain you can just buy a philo and he does perfectly well vs majors creeps without it Did you intentionally cut out the 2nd paragraph of my reply comparing Philo->Shurelya's and Wriggle's? It's not a clear-cut decision where one is right 100% of the time. Both give sustain and gold value generation. One gives armor, AD, and the Razors proc, while the other gives HP, CDR, and the Shurelya's active. In some cases, you might even want both. You can't say "he does perfectly well without it" in a vacuum, because the speed required of a jungler's clear is extremely dependent on his matchup vs the other jungler (e.g. how fast the enemy is at clearing and how aggressive their counterjungling is), what role he expects to play with regard to his laners (e.g. if he has losing lanes, he will need to play more gank-heavy, whereas control/counterjungle let him dull the threat of enemy jungle ganks if his lanes are winning), and his overall playstyle. Wriggle's has pretty clear benefits for buff control, dragon control, and counterjungling when the game in question calls for it--things that Shurelya's doesn't cover in any way. The tradeoff is all the more relevant because of how flexible Udyr is in the jungle--he can pretty much tailor his jungle play to whatever he needs to accomplish for his team, and whatever the player is comfortable with. Very few junglers actually NEED Wriggle's, but it's still a common buy on almost any autoattack-based jungler simply because the early game control benefits are so good. Trundle, Warwick, Lee Sin, Olaf, etc. have absolutely no problems clearing without Wriggle's, but they still do so an overwhelmingly large percentage of the time. EDIT: For once I get to see a numbers post before he deletes it. | ||
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0123456789
United States3216 Posts
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arnath
United States1317 Posts
SK and TSM both doing solo Trundle. Plus, in the TSM vs Crs game, they're doing AD + Support top and solo bottom. Did these things become normal at some point? EDIT: Also, Ryze vs Veigar mid ... does anybody have the bans for this game? | ||
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sRapers_ValkS
United States644 Posts
On August 14 2011 05:15 0123456789 wrote: i agree. | ||
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lynx.oblige
Sierra Leone2268 Posts
On August 14 2011 05:09 Niton wrote: Just by looking at preferred roles, both inside and outside of tournaments, you can get a feel for the champions people both enjoy playing and can play. I can't speak for the specific champions INSIDE the roles, but it's not hard to see what roles people can play well that they like playing. So no. | ||
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gtrsrs
United States9109 Posts
On August 14 2011 05:54 arnath wrote: Did I miss some massive change in the meta game? SK and TSM both doing solo Trundle. Plus, in the TSM vs Crs game, they're doing AD + Support top and solo bottom. Did these things become normal at some point? Trundle is a great anti-Tanky dps solo top and always has been Bite plus his passive means no way he can take any relevant damage Trundle's problem has always been that even with a ton of farm he just can't do anything So that's why he's not a common solo. I doubt this will stick | ||
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Niton
United States2395 Posts
You don't think a spread of 20-30 tournament games and a 3 digit number of non-tournament streamed games is enough to make an inference into the kind of champions someone plays? People say someone's <x> is really good (or bad) over a much smaller sample size than that. | ||
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Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
On August 14 2011 05:54 arnath wrote: Did I miss some massive change in the meta game? SK and TSM both doing solo Trundle. Plus, in the TSM vs Crs game, they're doing AD + Support top and solo bottom. Did these things become normal at some point? EDIT: Also, Ryze vs Veigar mid ... does anybody have the bans for this game? Trundle is an amazing top following on Udyr's and Warwick's footsteps, and AD+Support top and solo bot is a good play when you have a solo who can 1v2 and they have a solo who can't 1v2. The only real counter to that is to swap lanes, leaving your support + AD lanes top and solos bot. Oh right, and the Ryze is a counterpick to Veigar. Actually, Ryze is THE counterpick to Veigar. Tournament games, ranked stats, watching streams. You don't have to be their mother to know what they can play. | ||
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Blitzkrieg0
United States13132 Posts
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LaNague
Germany9118 Posts
i find veigar very annoying, some insight would be cool so i can counter him hard every time. | ||
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Niton
United States2395 Posts
On August 14 2011 06:18 LaNague wrote: is ryzes q greater range than veigar stun or is it just because of no AP? i find veigar very annoying, some insight would be cool so i can counter him hard every time. 25 longer range, Event Horizon can stun out to like 800-850 though. It's just no AP + benefits from early HP+MR is a caster Veigar really can't deal with. | ||
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