EPT[Discussion] Dominion - Page 35
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Southlight
United States11761 Posts
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Sabin010
United States1892 Posts
This usually leads to enemy solo queue teams to commit too many resources to capping the bot lane and ends with them losing their windmill. The only real defense for this is sending two guys bottem, but currently it seems teams are sticking 1 guy bottem who can hold a tower 2v1 or an insanely good duelest bottem and 4 guys top. This early game Rammus style of interrupting what should be a give me capture point is what really can make a team snowball to an early 5 cap that ends a game in under 5 minutes. | ||
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Southlight
United States11761 Posts
On October 28 2011 23:22 Sabin010 wrote: rammus is so broken that he can rush strait to the enemy bottem tower and interrupt its capture at level 3. Then the Bot lane can 2v1 and cap the enemy bot while the top messes arround 3v4 fighting for the windmill, and even though they should get it they're still losing points on the nexus. This usually leads to enemy solo queue teams to commit too many resources to capping the bot lane and ends with them losing their windmill. The only real defense for this is sending two guys bottem, but currently it seems teams are sticking 1 guy bottem who can hold a tower 2v1 or an insanely good duelest bottem and 4 guys top. This early game Rammus style of interrupting what should be a give me capture point is what really can make a team snowball to an early 5 cap that ends a game in under 5 minutes. lol, yeah Rammus is broken as all hell. Only saving grace is that 99% of Rammus players are clueless as fuck. | ||
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Scamp
United States1086 Posts
Again, certainly a strong force in Dominion but in my opinion he's overrated. On October 28 2011 23:22 Sabin010 wrote: rammus is so broken that he can rush strait to the enemy bottem tower and interrupt its capture at level 3. Then the Bot lane can 2v1 and cap the enemy bot while the top messes arround 3v4 fighting for the windmill, and even though they should get it they're still losing points on the nexus. This usually leads to enemy solo queue teams to commit too many resources to capping the bot lane and ends with them losing their windmill. The only real defense for this is sending two guys bottem, but currently it seems teams are sticking 1 guy bottem who can hold a tower 2v1 or an insanely good duelest bottem and 4 guys top. This early game Rammus style of interrupting what should be a give me capture point is what really can make a team snowball to an early 5 cap that ends a game in under 5 minutes. Rammus isn't the only character that can rush to the bottom tower and interrupt the capture. In fact, almost every champion can do it with boots of mobility and ghost. Your analysis is fundamentally flawed. It relies on a bad opposing team. But onto the specifics. It's usually not a 2v1 bottom lane if you interrupt the capture unless the other team is stupid. Often whoever capped mid will run down to bottom and get there about the same time as whoever capped bottom lane for you, which means it's a 2v2. Not to mention whoever you interrupted at bot lane will beat the crap out of Rammus in a 1v1 fight. Meanwhile top isn't really a 3v4, it's a 2v3 until the people who capped mid join in. In my scenerio it'll be a 3v3 at that point, assuming everyone is still alive for some reason. In any best-case scenerio it'll make an early 3 cap but in no way should things snowball to a 5 cap. I think you're just playing against really bad teams. | ||
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Southlight
United States11761 Posts
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Scamp
United States1086 Posts
Also, does he hammer most heroes 1v1 at level 3? Nooo... I agree that building him for mobility is bad and building like you suggested is better. Like I said, he's a strong force in Dominion. I don't think it's a bad choice to ban him but I also don't think it's the best choice. | ||
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Novalisk
Israel1818 Posts
As for rushing bot at the start, in my experience the only reason that strategy works is because bad teams try to get bot back with no teamwork. It's just so tempting to try to retake bot(since it's so close) straight after you re-spawn(which is a bad idea 90% of the time) instead of waiting for your teammates. | ||
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Southlight
United States11761 Posts
He's "overrated' in the sense that people somehow expect Rammus to carry 1v5 anyways (although late-game he can impact a game 1v5-style) but his effect on a game FAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAR surpasses everyone else. You don't need to do stupid gimmicks like robbing bot tower or shanking top tower or sniping neutra/caps. He's simply so hard to kill, gets from one place to another faster than everyone else, and outputs so much damage. Edit: After seeing the post above, again, I reiterate It's the terrible Rammus players that play him like a speedy hero. Rammus is fucking godly combat hero. He's a godly combat hero that happens to have one of the most ridiculous speed skills in the game for Dom, and that's what makes him bloody murder. Hence why a number of us have kept reiterating that it's the Rammus player that sucks if he seems weak. The hero itself has all the tools you'd want, and that makes him broken as hell. | ||
Flicky
England2654 Posts
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Scamp
United States1086 Posts
I don't agree that his early game is ridiculous. I personally can't see how he's going to be so much of a boss with an early Priscilla's Blessing. I also don't see why you (Southlight) keep mentioning points where people say he seems weak since no one has ever said that. I personally think that both you and Flicky overestimate the amount of gold and exp that you get on Dominion. It is definitely possible to deny a champion gold or experience, at least enough to prevent them from getting crazy. You shouldn't be crazy 10-15 minutes into Dominion unless you have a lot of kills or are a crazy champion with one or two items max. Again, I must reiterate that he is a very good champ, but I don't think he is the best. | ||
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Southlight
United States11761 Posts
Rammus can farm gold surprisingly quickly (it's why he's almost always #1 ranked in his team) because with Blessing he can force off-tower fights and neutralizes better than most other champs (with the possible exception of Shaco and Eve). While a lot of other heroes are much more stagnant in that they're either on tower or fighting with creep, Rammus goes where he pleases with impunity, so he generates gold-getting opportunities. To that end it's neigh impossible to deny Rammus farm unless his team is in shambles. 10-15 minutes into Dom you can finish at least Blessing and Warmog rather consistently assuming not-fail team. That makes him absurdly difficult to kill, and thanks to Blessing, once he neutralizes a tower can force your team to expend a LOT of effort (usually at least 2 ppl because he can 1v1 a lot of people) to re-cap the tower, during which time at the very least he prolongs the game. And so the vicious cycle goes. Furthermore due to his speed he can snipe neutra, force two people, and then shank a different tower (bot lane or 4v2 Windmill) faster than the 1-2 people who went to re-cap can. It's this sort of numeric advantage that he keeps generating that lets him rack up gold and extend games. No one else can do this as effectively as he can. Shaco comes pretty close, especially a fed Shaco (as he can sit behind a tower and drop like 5 boxes and keep forcing neutra/caps) but he's not as consistent at it. | ||
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Scamp
United States1086 Posts
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Terranasaur
United States2085 Posts
On October 29 2011 01:20 Scamp wrote: At this point I'd really like some way for you to show it if you can. Maybe I can queue with you later someday and we'll do some Dom normals. In any event, my reply is now spilling over into the general discussion. I'd like to get in on that. Last night I played my first ever game of Dominion and chose Rammus for maybe the 5th time ever. I went Thornmail --> Warmog --> Blessing and some other stuff and went 19/2/10 with a quadrakill... all pretty much on accident. I'd love to see what someone who knows what he's doing with Rammus does with Rammus because I feel like there is a lot of potential there. | ||
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Southlight
United States11761 Posts
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Sabin010
United States1892 Posts
On October 28 2011 23:45 Scamp wrote: I highly disagree about how broken Rammus is. I agree that he is very good but I don't think he's instaban good. His absurd mobility can be abused by smart players but it's not something that can't be overcome with good teamwork. The problem is that he's still Rammus and doesn't excel in 1v1 fighting. He needs his team with him to be a useful fighter and that's not going to happen if he's going for disruption. Again, certainly a strong force in Dominion but in my opinion he's overrated. Rammus isn't the only character that can rush to the bottom tower and interrupt the capture. In fact, almost every champion can do it with boots of mobility and ghost. Your analysis is fundamentally flawed. It relies on a bad opposing team. But onto the specifics. It's usually not a 2v1 bottom lane if you interrupt the capture unless the other team is stupid. Often whoever capped mid will run down to bottom and get there about the same time as whoever capped bottom lane for you, which means it's a 2v2. Not to mention whoever you interrupted at bot lane will beat the crap out of Rammus in a 1v1 fight. Meanwhile top isn't really a 3v4, it's a 2v3 until the people who capped mid join in. In my scenerio it'll be a 3v3 at that point, assuming everyone is still alive for some reason. In any best-case scenerio it'll make an early 3 cap but in no way should things snowball to a 5 cap. I think you're just playing against really bad teams. You're giving the average dominion player way too much credit, I see people still pickign these super late game scaling champs (Veigar, Nassus). I've started this way my last four or five dominion games going Graves/Rammus bottem, and there has not been a single instance of the enemy sending their mid cap guy bottem to help after the turret was interrupted. It doesn't always lead to a 5 cap, but when a team of randoms with poor communication are queued together it has lead to a 5 cap and a 5 minute victory. Starting mobility boots and blowing ghost to interrupt the bot capture is actually setting the guy trying to interrupt back early as all you have are these mobility boots when a guy with a prospectors item and normal boots is just going to shit on you. Of course you're going to die in a 1v1 at level 3 with just mobility boots vs a guy with normal starting items. The reason rammus is good at it is he doesn't even have to deviate from his build to do it. If Rammus isn't one of the top 10 champions for Dominion I obviously know nothing about the format, and will say we only won those games because of luck, poor enemy teams or what ever you want to call it. The fact remains Rammus is great against ad based champions, has some of the best mobility in a format where mobility is king, and can cause so much disruption in imblanced fights (i.e. the ones you really want to initiate and fight in, 1v2s 2v3s etc.). Calling him overrated in dominion is like saying Udyr is an overrated Jungler in SR, Janna is an overrated support pick, or boots 3pot is an overrated set of starting items. | ||
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UniversalSnip
9871 Posts
you can open tabi, ruby crystal and a health pot, that's pretty stupid compared to... two rejuv beads. I'd rather have prospector's blade as well | ||
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Southlight
United States11761 Posts
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Novalisk
Israel1818 Posts
On October 29 2011 03:37 Southlight wrote: Didn't like it until I tried it; the reason is simply because it lets me neutralize mid tower and bot tower faster than they can get to me (the cap speed is noticeable) which means I can prolong games and fuck their team up from the start :> Against a team that actually defends, going for a capture build(and play-style) can easily backfire and put your team in a 4v5 scenario, as you just get ganked and shrugged off easily. I'd rather have Rammus helping in team fights and assisting top/bot than just trying to distract the opposing team by running around. | ||
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Southlight
United States11761 Posts
On October 29 2011 04:08 Novalisk wrote: Against a team that actually defends, going for a capture build(and play-style) can easily backfire and put your team in a 4v5 scenario, as you just get ganked and shrugged off easily. I'd rather have Rammus helping in team fights and assisting top/bot than just trying to distract the opposing team by running around. Read previous posts plox. | ||
NeoIllusions
United States37500 Posts
ThornMog es OP. You can't run away from the Moose. | ||
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