So Dominion is coming! It seems like it will be Arathi Basin style with battles lasting about 20 minutes. It looks as to capture a resource you need to channel for a certain amount of time at it and can be interrupted by death, stuns, moving and possibly damage.
What do you guys think of this? How many players do you think will be on each team? What strategies would you use to win? Would you just hold onto 3 bases as securely as possible or try to capture all five, but have weak defense?
DISCUSS!
Notes:
-Win by capturing points and completing quests to destroy the enemy's nexus -You start the game with 1,375 gold and at level 3 -It is 5v5 -Minions are for feeding carries (no laning phase) -Channel to capture a point, the more people channeling, the less time it takes -Revamped items -Buffs (assuming from monsters): Passive shield buff, speed buff boots and health -Teleport and Fortify are replaced by Promote and Garrison (buffs or nerfs a tower) -New UI similar to FPS UIs -Personal scoring system implemented -Completion of team quests hurt the enemy's nexus and grant a team wide buff -Deaths aren't as "bad" as in summoner's rift, dying to save one point while your team takes two is good
holy shit. i thought i wouldnt be too excited about a new map, but this sounds awesome. I hope i can recapture some of the adventure and discovery i had when i first started playing LoL as my first dota game. gonna get back into playing LoL alot.
is this going to become the "central" game made of LoL since dota2 is coming out with what many people assume is a superior remake of the "original" moba style? Will champions be balanced now around their ability to perform on the dominion map instead of on summoner's rift (i.e. how there are many champs that are much stronger on TT than they were intended to be, just due to the different mechanics of 3v3 as compared to 5v5)? is magma chamber scrapped?
On August 05 2011 00:50 Seiuchi wrote: On a scale of 1 to Twisted Treeline how much do tanky deeps dominate this map?
"In the context of League of Legends, Dominion is also great in that it almost completely reinvents LoL's 80+ champion cast by giving them new objectives to fulfill in completely different ways. Tanks have been transformed into anti-siege units to disrupt enemy attempts to cap new towers, while assassins will love the opportunity to really flex their mobility muscles. Mages seem to do quite well in defending and roaming, while most tanky DPS champions seem to have found their role in pushing for new points. In other words, if you thought a new map would give new champions the opportunity to rise through the ranks, Dominion's completely new style has turned those tier lists onto their heads."
On August 05 2011 00:47 gtrsrs wrote: DanielZKlien,
is this going to become the "central" game made of LoL since dota2 is coming out with what many people assume is a superior remake of the "original" moba style? Will champions be balanced now around their ability to perform on the dominion map instead of on summoner's rift (i.e. how there are many champs that are much stronger on TT than they were intended to be, just due to the different mechanics of 3v3 as compared to 5v5)? is magma chamber scrapped?
They seem to be trying to balance characters through changing items instead of the characters themselves.
The weakest role will probably be ranged carry. They are good in laning, weak mid-game, and great late. Which is exactly the opposite of what you want here.
On top of this, they won't have towers to hit which is part of why you pick a ranged dps in the first place.
On August 05 2011 01:00 Qualm wrote: The weakest role will probably be ranged carry. They are good in laning, weak mid-game, and great late. Which is exactly the opposite of what you want here.
On top of this, they won't have towers to hit which is part of why you pick a ranged dps in the first place.
On August 05 2011 01:00 Qualm wrote: The weakest role will probably be ranged carry. They are good in laning, weak mid-game, and great late. Which is exactly the opposite of what you want here.
On top of this, they won't have towers to hit which is part of why you pick a ranged dps in the first place.
I think they do have towers. Not sure.
Yeah but if i understand correct it's more like points you capture by standing in a circle for a certain amount of time.
On August 05 2011 01:00 Qualm wrote: The weakest role will probably be ranged carry. They are good in laning, weak mid-game, and great late. Which is exactly the opposite of what you want here.
On top of this, they won't have towers to hit which is part of why you pick a ranged dps in the first place.
I think they do have towers. Not sure.
Yeah but if i understand correct it's more like points you capture by standing in a circle for a certain amount of time.
This is true, but i think you need to get past towers to get to the circle
Atlas: this is the "big thing" some Rioters have been hinting at in their personal tweets, yes. This is what had us all so excited.
gtrsrs: very good questions. We focus on making the best game we possibly can, listening to what our players want. We cannot predict how popular the map will be, but we definitely have no plans to phase out Summoner's Rift. You'd have to speak to a member of the champion/live design team for balance questions, but I don't think we will be balancing champions specifically for Crystal Scar. We're trying to do that through items and a map-wide buff/debuff (more details on that to follow). So don't worry: Summoner's Rift isn't going anywhere. Specifically in eSport I expect it to be the defacto standard for quite a while. We're still working on Magma Chamber, but clearly priorities have shifted
Seiuchi: very serious concern. We're actively tweaking stuff on the map to make sure it's not going to be 100% melee dps dominated. I'm having a LOT of success with my Jax at the moment, and I'm not a very good Jax. This tells us that something is still wrong Question: if you were playing an AP and started with xx% free magic pen, would you feel that could potentially fix the problem for you?
As for ranged carries being weak, let me tell you: Vayne on Crystal Scar is ABSURD. There always seems to be a wall to shove people up against, and there's few people who can beat a good vayne in a 1v1. That said, here in the office we've been playing a mini "bottom lane" with ranged DPS and support capturing lower left and pushing toward lower right, and that seems to work beautifully. Still, the meta game is going to warp and twist like a litter of puppies dropped into a comic book villain's tank of SUPERPOWERFUL MUTAGEN.
On August 05 2011 01:41 DanielZKlein wrote: \Question: if you were playing an AP and started with xx% free magic pen, would you feel that could potentially fix the problem for you?
It depends on the value, though to some extent I feel like it'd be better to have level scaling AP to counteract the fact that farming's going to be harder and to counteract the high base stats of melee dps. Not to mention that'd hurt pure tanks less and they're already an endangered species.
Hmm, I think as long as the different objective points aren't symmetrical, you will have a much easier time balancing the champions.
For instance, if one particular objective has a bunch of brushes and walls, there's no way for a ranged DPS like Ashe to compete whereas blinkers will just dominate them.
In contrast, another objective could have chokepoints with good static defenses, that would allow ranged DPS and poking champions to excel.
I was afraid this was going to happen again. I'm getting sick and tired of all of these announcements. Don't get me wrong, Dominion sounds like a great idea, but in the end it's just another announcement. They announce these great ideas but then months go by and nothing happens. Spectator mode, shiny graphics patch, magma chamber, replays? All of these announcements were great but we still don't have them. It's incredibly frustrating to play a game where relatively simple things take nearly a year to develop.
Riot, you've got a great game and a big fan base. But these announcements are starting to feel like slaps to the face. You've gotta start closing announcements before you open up new ones. Don't keep teasing us like this.
Why even get excited for this? Riot hasn't released it and has a horrible history of announcing new features and never releasing them. Sure they say it will be playable at Gamescon and PAX, but we also saw observer mode at a competition and have yet to have any indication that it will ever be 'ready' for the general public.
Hey riot, release something or keep quiet.. Quit promising and then 'polishing' it.
Learn to hype less. I'll care when something other than champs and skins get released.
Nothing like making it harder to balance champions (more maps to go across) while adding more work for balancers (have to spend time on different items/summoners instead of looking at champs who desperately need remakes). Chance the balance is even *playable* in version 1? Just about zero. Just off the top of my head -- mobility is key, fights start early, and there are always walls around? How do you stop Poppy?
In the mean time, the rabid community still has no replay/spectator, and the casual community still has complete crap for PvE to learn on.
Did anyone ever think to themselves "if I posted in the forums asking if people wanted us to spend time on this, would anyone say yes?" Because the number of downvotes on that thread might constitute new research in trans-finite mathematics.
Initial reaction: fear, doubt, and a blow to the gut (after all the pointless hype).
I'm excited for it, I just wish they didn't make a big deal out of something not coming out NOW when they were talking about it being big. I have a lot of faith in the project, though.
Brackhar really knows what he's doing, so I'm excited to see a large project by him come to a head. He was (I believe) head designer on the advanced tutorial project, and he's also the designer of Anivia, Cassiopeia, Janna, Nidalee and Taric.
On August 05 2011 02:29 Frolossus wrote: uninterested unless you can play the standard mode on the map instead of this capture point crap
i dont understand. if you want to play more standard, just play on summoners rift...
i mean how many people who complain about having a new/different map actually play on TT? i was never excited about a new map because i know people will mess around on it for abit and then move back to s rift. having a significantly different game makes it so that this might actually be interesting and get played.
On August 05 2011 02:19 AtlaS wrote: I was afraid this was going to happen again. I'm getting sick and tired of all of these announcements. Don't get me wrong, Dominion sounds like a great idea, but in the end it's just another announcement. They announce these great ideas but then months go by and nothing happens. Spectator mode, shiny graphics patch, magma chamber, replays? All of these announcements were great but we still don't have them. It's incredibly frustrating to play a game where relatively simple things take nearly a year to develop.
Riot, you've got a great game and a big fan base. But these announcements are starting to feel like slaps to the face. You've gotta start closing announcements before you open up new ones. Don't keep teasing us like this.
well theyre gonna have it available for play at PAX, which is at the end of this month. and they say theyre gonna release it (soon) after. so you wont have to be bitterly disappointed for at least a month or two.
There will be no dorans there. Just more expensive replacements. Map is circular with 2 lanes and big jungle in the middle. There are (almost) no bushes. And no neutral mobs. Buffs are in the middle ala DOTA style. Right now there is global 15% armor penetration, 5% magic penetration and 5 gold per second. Games are super fast. There will be other masteries for this map. No wonder with new summoner spells.
On August 05 2011 02:19 AtlaS wrote: I was afraid this was going to happen again. I'm getting sick and tired of all of these announcements. Don't get me wrong, Dominion sounds like a great idea, but in the end it's just another announcement. They announce these great ideas but then months go by and nothing happens. Spectator mode, shiny graphics patch, magma chamber, replays? All of these announcements were great but we still don't have them. It's incredibly frustrating to play a game where relatively simple things take nearly a year to develop.
Riot, you've got a great game and a big fan base. But these announcements are starting to feel like slaps to the face. You've gotta start closing announcements before you open up new ones. Don't keep teasing us like this.
well theyre gonna have it available for play at PAX, which is at the end of this month. and they say theyre gonna release it (soon) after. so you wont have to be bitterly disappointed for at least a month or two.
This is the exact same release method they used for observer mode. Showed it at the Season One championship and still have yet to release it to general use. Making it playable for a closed environment like a convention is not having it ready for general use.
sounds really dumb even though im just speculating.
Seems like you can't afford to group up unless the check points are all really close together. Looks like you want as many assassins as possible, or people good at 1v1ing
Damn this is really crazy, looks like it could be either fantastic or broken easily. I noticed riot took out teleport. That's just such a huge deal by itself and completely changes how I would have to think about positioning on the map.
"The personal score was really created to de-emphasize the importance of a bloodthirst, or racking up a Kills/Deaths/Assists score," says Hough. "We've all played the game with the guy who's more interested in kills than winning the game. And so the goal of the personal scoring system is to reward you for contributions, including killing players, that benefit the overall team objective." Players will get personal points for doing things like picking up health, defending objectives, or even grabbing buffs,
This is an interesting idea and should help people understand the different objectives in Dominion as well as Summoner's Rift. The fact that people essentially ignore baron and dragon at lower level games should show just how blind people can be to things as powerful as baron buff when they have been focusing on kills and deaths until that point.
and presumably there's an IP reward of some kind for top scores at the end of the match.
This is a VERY bad idea imo. If you want to read why here is a giant wall of text: (mostly meant for Zenon) + Show Spoiler +
It says within the description that you are using this system to discourage selfish behavior but I guarantee you that people will find endless loopholes in which they get more points but end up accidentally hurting the team. LoL's system of ELO and secret ELO for normal games is perfectly balanced and you see the best players have the highest ELO because it is related to which games you win. I know this will not effect ELO but it will materialize personal glory ingame as tangible rewards, and at the current moment it is (because of cognitive dissonance) considered a guilty pleasure to revel in your high killcount. Programming in rewards for personal glory justifies selfish behavior in a game that, up until this point, was undeniably either about winning or losing. Some of the things you mentioned, like 'picking up health' (i'm assuming a FPS-style health pack) is very easily turned problematic as soon as two people are near a health pack as it spawns and one 'deserves' it over the other because they have lower health. Or someone sees it spawn and abandons an objective or teamfight to grab it because fuck it, we're going to win anyway. People have already done things like this by refusing to surrender because they think it will give them extra IP. I was searching for related topics and found this, which should show you how much just one random guy who has played for a "couple of months" cares about getting the maximum IP out of his games.
I know this is a long and whiny post but most games companies are very scared to admit they made a balancing mistake, especially if they spent a ton of time creating it. I also know you guys have the integrity to admit to these mistakes and remove items like locket. So i'm hopeful, but here's some suggestions anyway, because it will be easier to convince you to change balance radically before you release the product so you don't look foolish, and so that Dominion will not look like a mistake when it gets released. First of all I think you should make it so that every objective is team-wide, so any health pack you pick up heals the entire team in the manner of a health pot or a elixer or whatever. More importantly, instead of trying to reward undervalued behavior with these rewards ("heroic deaths") you should focus entirely on how exploitable these personal objectives are to avoid selfishness, and try to find ways to make them undeniably good ideas for your team so that it is never a bad time to accomplish them if you want them to always give bonus IP. If collecting these objectives takes as long as a teamfight it must be more beneficial to the team than that player being in the teamfight to be undeniably worth some bonus IP; the only equivalent I can think of in Summoner's Rift is Baron, because even if your whole team dies while you get baron, at least you prevented the other team from getting it. I really would avoid the "heroic death" mechanic because it will be very easily gamed; the other team could stunlock you until your team finishes capturing the point so you don't get the bonus, or inexperienced players could suicide when they see their team is capturing 3 points at once, or a bunch of other opportunities that I haven't even thought of yet. Like i said earlier, LoL has the world's most balanced ranking system because at the end of the day the only thing that matters is whether you win or lose, and because of that you are encouraged to help your team in ways that are impossible to measure and reward. It's important that you understand and protect this principle and not take it for granted, because it is very delicate and much more important than rewarding 'heroic deaths.' I guess my question is, "are you aware of this, and realize how careful you have to be?"
Side note: One of the unintended consequences may be much closer games because as soon as one team begins to win, they will begin to do things not conducive to winning to try to increase their score (in addition to the actually helpful things they would do normally). If the losing team focuses on productive goals they will do better. So in that sense it is nice for balancing in general. However it will be incredibly frustrating for people that are carrying their games hard to see their teams will to win dissipate into selfish scavenging as soon as they think their victory is guaranteed. It is already difficult enough to herd your team into the best decisions, especially at low level, and giving them a bounty of potential IP will make it impossible for lower level players to pay attention to someone giving them experienced advice they are unaware of (e.g. "stop picking up health packs, just kill baron and charge their nexus")
Despite this concern I am really looking forward to this new map.
On August 05 2011 03:52 Attakijing wrote: Damn this is really crazy, looks like it could be either fantastic or broken easily. I noticed riot took out teleport. That's just such a huge deal by itself and completely changes how I would have to think about positioning on the map.
"The personal score was really created to de-emphasize the importance of a bloodthirst, or racking up a Kills/Deaths/Assists score," says Hough. "We've all played the game with the guy who's more interested in kills than winning the game. And so the goal of the personal scoring system is to reward you for contributions, including killing players, that benefit the overall team objective." Players will get personal points for doing things like picking up health, defending objectives, or even grabbing buffs,
This is an interesting idea and should help people understand the different objectives in Dominion as well as Summoner's Rift. The fact that people essentially ignore baron and dragon at lower level games should show just how blind people can be to things as powerful as baron buff when they have been focusing on kills and deaths until that point.
and presumably there's an IP reward of some kind for top scores at the end of the match.
This is a VERY bad idea imo. If you want to read why here is a giant wall of text: (mostly meant for Zenon) + Show Spoiler +
It says within the description that you are using this system to discourage selfish behavior but I guarantee you that people will find endless loopholes in which they get more points but end up accidentally hurting the team. LoL's system of ELO and secret ELO for normal games is perfectly balanced and you see the best players have the highest ELO because it is related to which games you win. I know this will not effect ELO but it will materialize personal glory ingame as tangible rewards, and at the current moment it is (because of cognitive dissonance) considered a guilty pleasure to revel in your high killcount. Programming in rewards for personal glory justifies selfish behavior in a game that, up until this point, was undeniably either about winning or losing. Some of the things you mentioned, like 'picking up health' (i'm assuming a FPS-style health pack) is very easily turned problematic as soon as two people are near a health pack as it spawns and one 'deserves' it over the other because they have lower health. Or someone sees it spawn and abandons an objective or teamfight to grab it because fuck it, we're going to win anyway. People have already done things like this by refusing to surrender because they think it will give them extra IP. I was searching for related topics and found this, which should show you how much just one random guy who has played for a "couple of months" cares about getting the maximum IP out of his games.
I know this is a long and whiny post but most games companies are very scared to admit they made a balancing mistake, especially if they spent a ton of time creating it. I also know you guys have the integrity to admit to these mistakes and remove items like locket. So i'm hopeful, but here's some suggestions anyway, because it will be easier to convince you to change balance radically before you release the product so you don't look foolish, and so that Dominion will not look like a mistake when it gets released. First of all I think you should make it so that every objective is team-wide, so any health pack you pick up heals the entire team in the manner of a health pot or a elixer or whatever. More importantly, instead of trying to reward undervalued behavior with these rewards ("heroic deaths") you should focus entirely on how exploitable these personal objectives are to avoid selfishness, and try to find ways to make them undeniably good ideas for your team so that it is never a bad time to accomplish them if you want them to always give bonus IP. If collecting these objectives takes as long as a teamfight it must be more beneficial to the team than that player being in the teamfight to be undeniably worth some bonus IP; the only equivalent I can think of in Summoner's Rift is Baron, because even if your whole team dies while you get baron, at least you prevented the other team from getting it. I really would avoid the "heroic death" mechanic because it will be very easily gamed; the other team could stunlock you until your team finishes capturing the point so you don't get the bonus, or inexperienced players could suicide when they see their team is capturing 3 points at once, or a bunch of other opportunities that I haven't even thought of yet. Like i said earlier, LoL has the world's most balanced ranking system because at the end of the day the only thing that matters is whether you win or lose, and because of that you are encouraged to help your team in ways that are impossible to measure and reward. It's important that you understand and protect this principle and not take it for granted, because it is very delicate and much more important than rewarding 'heroic deaths.' I guess my question is, "are you aware of this, and realize how careful you have to be?"
Side note: One of the unintended consequences may be much closer games because as soon as one team begins to win, they will begin to do things not conducive to winning to try to increase their score (in addition to the actually helpful things they would do normally). If the losing team focuses on productive goals they will do better. So in that sense it is nice for balancing in general. However it will be incredibly frustrating for people that are carrying their games hard to see their teams will to win dissipate into selfish scavenging as soon as they think their victory is guaranteed. It is already difficult enough to herd your team into the best decisions, especially at low level, and giving them a bounty of potential IP will make it impossible for lower level players to pay attention to someone giving them experienced advice they are unaware of (e.g. "stop picking up health packs, just kill baron and charge their nexus")
Despite this concern I am really looking forward to this new map.
Agree with this guy, there shouldn't be rewards for anything besides winning.
On August 05 2011 00:13 DanielZKlein wrote: Have you got questions? Of COURSE you have questions! If you have them, ask me!
Hey Daniel, thanks for taking the time to answer some community questions
I have a few questions that sum up most of my concerns about this map:
- How can you keep 1v1 and 2v2 champs who fall off significantly in 5v5 situations (e.g. LeBlanc, Jax, Taric, TF, Akali, Pantheon before he sucked) balanced on both SR and Dominion, which should see fewer 5v5 teamfights and more small-scale combat? What about champions who are at their best in 5v5 scenarios but are weak in 1v1 and 2v2 fights? (Kog'Maw, Miss Fortune)
- How will champions who are dreadful at harassment and laning and need to stick to the jungle early on in SR, deal with the change of pace of early level harassment and teamfighting? (Rammus, Amumu)
- What will happen, if anything, to Nasus and Veigar's mechanics of growing stronger (Siphoning Strike for Nasus and bonus AP for Veigar) by last hitting minions with a specific skill?
I am concerned about these points because I don't see how different item choices could deal with these issues of champions and abilities being balanced around specific map parameters (those of Summoner's Rift), and then being exported to a different map where some champions and abilities should become noticeably stronger, whereas others sound like they would be comparatively weaker.
1: Ranged carries won't be so weak so much as immobile champions with bad base stats that rely on things like poking or range etc, (e.g ashe, caitlyn, kog maw, corki. Not vayne, trist).
2: APs will probably be pretty strong especially like vladimir and gragas but less so anivia or karthus.
3: Tanks will probably be pretty terrible, haha.
4: Nasus/veigar totally unviable but it doesn't matter it's only 2 champions out of many that will be weak.
I can see it playing like Arathai basin: Take the closest control point, then expand to 2 others and try to control those. Runners will function as people who will ninja camp undefended points. Everyone will be starting boots 1.
Expected dominators: Akali Lee sin Jax Xin zhao Irelia. Udyr New pirate. Casters: Annie, Ryze, Casseopia. and more Just predictions . TT champs that farm like bosses such as Singed and Mordekaiser won't be too strong, not sure on mundo.
On August 05 2011 04:26 Zato-1 wrote:- What will happen, if anything, to Nasus and Veigar's mechanics of growing stronger (Siphoning Strike for Nasus and bonus AP for Veigar) by last hitting minions with a specific skill?
Unfortunately I heard they are eventually remaking veigar and nasus, 2 of my favorite champs, because of these skills :'(
As someone who hit exalted with Arathi Basin on two characters, I'm not going anywhere near this thing. But I'm sure a lot of people will have fun with it. I just hope that Riot continues to focus on Summoner's Rift because I got into this game for the DotA-like experience and not to relive WoW's battlegrounds.
I'm not too worried about this turning into AB. Many of AB's most endearing issues are the result of having 3x as many players as nodes, as well as the nearby graveyards. With only one player per node it'll be a very different experience.
On August 05 2011 06:28 Seuss wrote: I'm not too worried about this turning into AB. Many of AB's most endearing issues are the result of having 3x as many players as nodes, as well as the nearby graveyards. With only one player per node it'll be a very different experience.
I have to agree with this.
Because of the balance, I don't think it'll feel very much like AB.
On August 05 2011 06:19 Bluebush wrote: As someone who hit exalted with Arathi Basin on two characters, I'm not going anywhere near this thing. But I'm sure a lot of people will have fun with it. I just hope that Riot continues to focus on Summoner's Rift because I got into this game for the DotA-like experience and not to relive WoW's battlegrounds.
As someone who grinded warlord on Illidan during a christmas holiday mostly in AB, I got exalted with every BG easily but I played about 5 times more in AB than the other 2, i'll be trying it out at least.
On August 05 2011 06:28 Seuss wrote: I'm not too worried about this turning into AB. Many of AB's most endearing issues are the result of having 3x as many players as nodes, as well as the nearby graveyards. With only one player per node it'll be a very different experience.
I have to agree with this.
Because of the balance, I don't think it'll feel very much like AB.
Well for me it's not really about whether they can balance it or make it fun (I have faith in them to do both). It's more just preferring the MOBA style over the capture/defend style of AB. As long as they don't balance the champs around Dominion (and I doubt they will given the new items/buffs/etc) then I have no problem with it. I'll give it a shot though
Although I do think it was weird to see so much hype over an announcement... a lot of people probably expected something to be implemented today.
Edit: ^ You grinded up to Warlord? Much respect, I only got up to Lt. General.
I'd much rather see replays and observing than any new map or champion at this point along with half the other promises that have been made in the last year, but I suppose that doesn't make riot money.
I'll wait to see how it turns out, but I don't see an attack and defend style game working for AoS games. Especially when the game is already balanced around a completely different style. If it doesn't turn into another Twisted Treeline I'll be impressed.
I'm not really worried about balance unless their are enough heroes which make the map shitty. Just seems like something fun to do on the side with buds. Treeline was pretty fun while it lasted and was still interesting to play once in awhile to fuck around on when solo ranked woes take over.
On August 05 2011 06:19 Bluebush wrote: As someone who hit exalted with Arathi Basin on two characters, I'm not going anywhere near this thing. But I'm sure a lot of people will have fun with it. I just hope that Riot continues to focus on Summoner's Rift because I got into this game for the DotA-like experience and not to relive WoW's battlegrounds.
As someone who grinded warlord on Illidan during a christmas holiday mostly in AB, I got exalted with every BG easily but I played about 5 times more in AB than the other 2, i'll be trying it out at least.
AB allways was the best thing ever happened to WoW. The whole map design of it was just genius.
Iam really looking forward to play it in LoL and I dont care if other champs are "imbalanced" there.
On August 05 2011 06:28 Seuss wrote: I'm not too worried about this turning into AB. Many of AB's most endearing issues are the result of having 3x as many players as nodes, as well as the nearby graveyards. With only one player per node it'll be a very different experience.
I have to agree with this.
Because of the balance, I don't think it'll feel very much like AB.
The great part about playing AB was playing an elemental shammy defending lumber mill huehuehue
Read:If I play this gametype ill cheese people with ali:D
If it is ANYTHING like AB, anything at all, Tanky DPS/Healing/Shielding will be beyond overpowered; it's completely unavoidable when the goal is to channel a flag for 30 seconds without being harmed, a tank with a pocket healer can harm you FOREVER if he is skilled at protecting said healer.
It sounds like a balancing nightmare, but I am interested to actually see a picture of the map and not a dozen ground level screenies, and the new items/summoners/etc. Could end up being really fun; at least LoL doesn't have a feral druid(Nidalee pretty close though).
In all seriousness, I'm pretty excited for this game-mode. I know, I know, they might have announced it too early because of Dota2 panic or something, but it looks really promising.
I say we try it and then bash it if it isn't good.
Looks good. I wonder, if this is a success, if there will be more CP maps made. I don't know how difficult it is to balance for this mode, but seeing the changes they've made so far (starting with extra gold and at level 3 etc) it seems like it might be quite tough.
The map looks much smaller than summoner's rift. I guess that's whats going to help the 20 minute game time but still it looks like 10-12 seconds to the middle... The art looks really solid though and I'm excited to see vods/streams from gamescom and pax.
Dont balance the champs balance the maps. If there are several game modes then all the 80 champs can be good depending on the map. Its a better promise than a map which we havent seen any kind of footage from IE Magma Chamber. I suspect that riot will pull out the big guns (this map, spectator mode and season 2) once DOTA2 is out.
Looks like there will be one " carry " who needs farm and will stay bottom to farm/poush (needs to be sustainable) against the counterpart, and the rest will be fighting top for the contested towers. Lots of potential for roaming though.
I actually like this idea a lot more than magma chamber. Whether it'll be good or not, its hell of a lot more innovative than just adding/subtracting a few players per team. Also depending on how well done and how successful it is (i.e. popular), it has a potential to expand the moba genre.
I strongly disagree this will be much like Arathi Basin. Sure the foundational rules are there, but the character and teamwork dynamics are very different.
With Dominion's release we'll see if LoL's devs have the inspiration and execution to match Valve and icefrog of dota 2.
On August 06 2011 03:35 SaetZero wrote: so all im hearing is
1- pick a caster 2- kill 2-3 minions for the tiny bit of gold you need 3- start at level 3 with haunting guise 4- .... yessssssssss
this looks fucking amazing. i seriously like the idea of this way more than traditional LoL
They said they would change items to balance the map. This maps sounds really really imba for champs that have hard cc, burst champs and tanky mofos like amummu and singed with the current items.
ok so is this game mode going to be something like domination from Unreal Tournament? because that was my first impression, but then people started to.compare it to some antari basin and i dont know wtf anymore. Can someone use reference to game mode from some oldschool game (or at least older than wow, in case someone from this site was interreested only in sc1 from the moment of wc3 release till discovering LOL)? Recently i cant watch any videos sadly so I cant watch the preview/gameplay
On August 06 2011 03:35 SaetZero wrote: so all im hearing is
1- pick a caster 2- kill 2-3 minions for the tiny bit of gold you need 3- start at level 3 with haunting guise 4- .... yessssssssss
this looks fucking amazing. i seriously like the idea of this way more than traditional LoL
They said they would change items to balance the map. This maps sounds really really imba for champs that have hard cc, burst champs and tanky mofos like amummu and singed with the current items.
? Burst champs and hard CC dominate 5v5. I'd imagine with smaller fights around the map burst and hard cc have much less value because of all the 1v1/2v2/3v3 fights.
I was afraid this was going to happen again. I'm getting sick and tired of all of these announcements. Don't get me wrong, Dominion sounds like a great idea, but in the end it's just another announcement. They announce these great ideas but then months go by and nothing happens. Spectator mode, shiny graphics patch, magma chamber, replays? All of these announcements were great but we still don't have them. It's incredibly frustrating to play a game where relatively simple things take nearly a year to develop.
I'll reply to this quickly since it's been brought up so much.
1) Magma Chamber was definitely our bad. We should never have talked about a feature that was still in early planning phase. Similarly for Shiny: when we first talked about Shiny we just had a few champions converted over, and while we were really happy with those early results, it was way too early to talk about them in public. We've learnt from this and have started only announcing things that are literally around the corner. You'll notice we never announced replays, and we did point out carefully during Dreamhack that Spectator Mode was in an early stage (it's changed a lot since). However, Spectator Mode was clearly usable at that stage as is now practically done. You'll notice we still haven't put a date to it--that's because we're not a 100% on when we can ship it, but it's really, really soon. As for Dominion, what did you expect? "Surprise! New game mode now live!"? That would have been silly. Dominion is 100% playable and fun and pretty much feature complete, to the point where we'll let the general public play it at PAX and Gamescom. We wouldn't do that if we didn't think it was pretty much ready to go. Watch us with Dominion and tell us, once it's live, if that wasn't fast enough.
Vlanitak asks:
1. Is this map going to have a ladder system for both solo and premades? or similar to 3v3 only for premades?
2. Towers?
3. You say there are alot of walls and things to shot everywhere, could we get a map/picture of the map?
4. How long are you expecting the queue's at gamescom to be in regards to testing this? and will it be allowed to take pictures and/or film it?
5. How is mundo on this map?
6. Why is Madred's razor gone? will Madred's Bloodrazor be there? are there anything else we should know about the items?
7. in size how large is the map considering semi-globals? (tf, panth etc)
It's too early to answer a lot of these in detail quite yet--simply because I'd be stealing the thunder from the announcement we'll roll out throughout this month. I'll answer what I think is safe to answer:
We haven't really decided what ladders we'll have, if any, for Dominion at launch.
We expect LONG queues at Gamescom. Everyone wants to play this That said, we're there from opening to close, Wednesday to Sunday, with a LOT of machines running the mode non-stop. (We'll have to grab 10 of them two-three times a day for a showmatch of some kind, but otherwise it's all Dominion, all the time). We'll also find ways to keep you entertained in queue.
I cannot give out details about the items on the map, but I can confirm that there's a different set of items, with some problematic items removed (problematic for the game mode) and new items added. Often when we remove an item that was problematic in its Summoner's Rift form, we add a similar item that makes more sense on Crystal Scar.
I played Pantheon on the map today in our playtest and it was awesome fun. Again I shouldn't give out too many details, but let's put it this way: with his recently nerfed ulti, he feels just right on CS.
rwrzr, that's just the theory crafting I wanted to see! Now this will suck, but I can't really give you details yet, but: some of those builds will not work because the items you're talking about don't exist on Crystal Scar.
Attakijing: I read your wall of text and I totally understand what you mean. I still think we can tweak rewards in such a way as to make non-cooperative play never really lead to higher scores. Say in your example the guy who abandons a push to grab a healthpack (and yeah, it's FPS style--you just run over it and pick it up) for easy points. Well, he may get, say, 2 points for the health pack, while helping to capture a point may be worth 40 points (making up values now to make a point). I think it's a solveable problem.
That said, the core of your concern is definitely valid. I'm going to raise it with the design team. I'll phrase it like this: "Are we worried that players who are going for a high personal score could thereby hurt their team?"
Zato-1 asks:
- How can you keep 1v1 and 2v2 champs who fall off significantly in 5v5 situations (e.g. LeBlanc, Jax, Taric, TF, Akali, Pantheon before he sucked) balanced on both SR and Dominion, which should see fewer 5v5 teamfights and more small-scale combat? What about champions who are at their best in 5v5 scenarios but are weak in 1v1 and 2v2 fights? (Kog'Maw, Miss Fortune)
This is a very good question, and one that I've spoken to our design team about. They believe it is possible--not least of all by tweaking items and a map-wide buff/debuff. One designer also told me that by balancing champions for CS they've often discovered problems that existed on SR too but that people hadn't found yet. For now we believe we can balance for both maps. Obviously it'll take a while before Crystal Scar is balanced. I'm not expecting perfect balance from day 1
Veigar and Nasus are... difficult problems. I'm not a member of the champion team, so that's all I can say about that. They may simply not be viable on Crystal Scar, though I hope not. I love Nasus.
Will Riot be streaming games on this map any time soon?
Yes We haven't announced any details yet, but expect to be able to see some more gameplay very soon. Possibly as soon as around the time the first players get to try it out at Gamescom/PAX.
Kaniol seems a little confused about how the map plays, so I'll laid out the rules real quick: there's 5 capture points. Holding more points than the enemy damages their nexus. Say your team hold 3 points, the enemy holds 2. The enemy nexus now slowly loses health. If you lose one, the enemy nexus stops bleeding health. If the enemy capture the point you just lost, your nexus starts losing health.
Nexi do not regenerate health. First team whose Nexus hits 0 points loses, other team wins. Pretty simple
meh, contests are for the artsy people, i gave up on that stuff at the age of 8 when my artsteacher, who was basically payed to find everything awesome, asked if i really wanted to have my picture back or if she couldnt just throw it away. :p
Hmm. Im a bit concerned about balancing for dominion. Balancing for TT pretty much failed, leavin characters like mundo in a less than decent spot on SR.
On August 06 2011 12:15 Two_DoWn wrote: Hmm. Im a bit concerned about balancing for dominion. Balancing for TT pretty much failed, leavin characters like mundo in a less than decent spot on SR.
Imagine a special kind of grievous wound item only for TT, followed by a rebalancing of Mundo. If the Dominion item model works, TT will finally get the love it desperately needs.
Hmm, First glance, i can see Zilean being insanely strong on this map, short distance to get your ultimate to where you need it fast. Extra mobility for team based maneuvers and some hit and run tatics, lvl 2 bombs at the start of the game with double bomb, blasting wand starter or catalyst for insane harrassabilty on their carry's farming.
As for Dominion, what did you expect? "Surprise! New game mode now live!"? That would have been silly. Dominion is 100% playable and fun and pretty much feature complete, to the point where we'll let the general public play it at PAX and Gamescom. We wouldn't do that if we didn't think it was pretty much ready to go. Watch us with Dominion and tell us, once it's live, if that wasn't fast enough.
Actually, the issue that a lot of people seem to be taking is that they were hoping Riot was going to announce the completion of something (anything) they previously promised, instead of announcing a new one. I don't mind too much personally, and I think you guys will follow through better, but people are understandably disappointed when Riot hypes up something for a week...and it turns out to be another announcement.
I don't mind too much personally, and hopefully an early release gets people to see it another way, but we'll see.
Thanks for response, again i'm really looking forward to this mode and it seems like a lot of the complaints in this thread seem pretty misinformed. If even we can't find that many problems with it, it's got to be pretty good
soo apparently you get items a lot faster in this game so yea tanks will just be the most useless pieces of shit in this mode. Ranged carries wont be as bad as previously thought, but melee dps is going to rape hard just like in twisted treeline. im sure lee sin will be hilarious on this map with infinite sustain and mobility
Just wanted to say thanks to Daniel for answering all these questions. Even if it is your job, it's still awesome.
And thanks to Moonbear for being a wizard.
Dominion looks fun I guess. It's definitely a smart move... it's like the best online mini game for free and I think it will definitely bring in a lot of new players.
On August 09 2011 05:19 Chrispy wrote: Just wanted to say thanks to Daniel for answering all these questions. Even if it is your job, it's still awesome.
And thanks to Moonbear for being a wizard.
Dominion looks fun I guess. It's definitely a smart move... it's like the best online mini game for free and I think it will definitely bring in a lot of new players.
Wowowowow calling someone a wizard on TL? Nothing against Moonbear, he's awesome and all, but to compare him to R1CH?
On August 09 2011 05:19 Chrispy wrote: Just wanted to say thanks to Daniel for answering all these questions. Even if it is your job, it's still awesome.
And thanks to Moonbear for being a wizard.
Dominion looks fun I guess. It's definitely a smart move... it's like the best online mini game for free and I think it will definitely bring in a lot of new players.
Wowowowow calling someone a wizard on TL? Nothing against Moonbear, he's awesome and all, but to compare him to R1CH?
I am no where near the wizard that R1CH is. A humble bear living on the moon maybe, but no wizard I am.
Also.
Maybe this answers some question.
Try reverse engineering some of those stats from the new items if you want. 1:10 for Nidalee is a good start. I wonder what that is, hm... New score screen 3:06 btw. :3
On August 09 2011 06:59 BouBou.865 wrote: @Klein does this explain the huge hiring spree Riot had a month ago?
I'm not sure but I think the hiring spree was basically just Riot wanting to expand. Im sure this was part of it, but it's also likely due to the fact that LoL playerbase went way way up since start of beta.
1:10/1:53/2:20: Nidalee has two unidentified items, a ring and something that looks it has an active. The only unaccounted for stats are 200 Health and some AP.
Based on scenes from around 1:34 she's using Flat AP Quints, Scaling AP glyphs and Archmage's Savvy. Thus, the amount of AP she's gaining from the unknown items is 30 AP.
We can conclude that both the 200 Health and 30 AP come from the ring based on 2:20. The other item is the chain lightning item we heard about (See: Nidalee shock Caitlyn around 1:50). Based on scenes involving Fiddlesticks it appears to build from two Rejuvenation Beads, but that might not be the case.
Also, the scene at 1:10 appears to repeat at 2:10. Silly video editors.
1:34/1:50: Caitlyn has a sword that looks like Bloodthirster on steroids. Her 8-10 AP probably comes from Archmage's Savvy (picked the wrong masteries maybe?).
Assuming Caitlyn took Brute Force (considering she has Archmage's Savvy it's not unlikely) it's clear that she's gaining 60 AD from the item at 1:34. At 1:50 we also see that it has some sort of stacking, and each stack gives 5 AD. It's not clear what the maximum stacks are, but they obviously aren't maintained by ability usage, as they drop shortly after she uses her Q.
I'm affectionately calling this item Sword of the Bloodthister's Rage.
2:26: Kog'maw has a strange bow and something that's either a wrist blade or a back scratcher. Again, AP from Archmage's Savvy (trend detected). The 13 Armor and MR appear to come from Flat Seals and Glyphs respectively.
He has an unaccounted for 30 AD (assumed Brute Force), which presumably comes from one of the items. He has ~109% AS unaccounted for. 4% likely comes from Alacrity. Assuming a minimum of one point in either Q or E at level 12, there's 75-95% AS between the two items. Because this is the only scene in which they appear it's impossible to extrapolate further.
3:12: Gangplank has a new sword. He also has 200 Health and 20 AD not accounted for anywhere. It's probably a starter item ala the ring we saw on Nidalee.
To summarize:
New starter items: More health and stats. Chain Lightning item: It might build from regen beads. New attack speed items: Who the hell knows what else they do. Sword of the Bloodthirster's Rage: Obviously designed so ranged AD aren't screwed.
Brackhar posted over on SA about Dominion's returning feature:
I'll only talk a little about this for now, and a lot of what I'll say is the same as in the video. Basically quests are events that will happen during the game that will increase the importance of capturing certain points on the map. The goal of these quests is to break up the pacing of the map and create an interesting high level choice for teams. The quests themselves are not random but are instead chosen specifically to create points of interesting conflict. Thus far they've definitely added a lot of interesting spice to our high level games internally.
Biggest thing for me is the duration of games, shorter game = less time for me to need to stew in frustration and rage. I'll probably end up just primarily playing Dom if the hero selection isn't as BS as TT.
On August 08 2011 02:53 NeoIllusions wrote: lol Psy, while that might be common sense, I dunno if Riot would ever openly say that.
They openly said that at the meeting I was in! They have even bought I think 3 months worth of PCGamer covers to ensure DOTA2 doesn't get one AND they have the centerfolds. Its a pretty big fuck you to Valve.
How's that a fuck you to Valve at all? It is just common sense to try to deny your competitors. Anyhow, considering the amount of marketing Valve threw out for Portal 2, it is hard to imagine that they won't simply oneup Riot.
With 20 minute games, I'm thinking this is going to be the IP farming mode. At least I kinda hope so, it should keep the riff-raff out of Summoner's Rift.
Looks like they updated the official Dominion website with a bit more info on the map and the story. There are also several short videos on the gameplay itself.
On August 09 2011 06:59 BouBou.865 wrote: @Klein does this explain the huge hiring spree Riot had a month ago?
We've been working on this for way longer, so not really, no. And it's not so much spikes as a steady ramp up. I've been with Riot for a year and four months not, and I cannot remember a time when we didn't hire for a lot of positions. Currently our list of job openings is the biggest it's ever been--and that was true a month ago and two months ago and half a year ago. We've steadily ramped up hiring.
The way Riot got started was like this: let's get an awesome game to market RIGHT NOW. We were a super-lean company back then. When I started at Riot, there were three dudes in customer support (Skribbelz, Loote and the legendary Jesse Perring, who was an intern back then)--now we've got 20 people in EUROPE ALONE.
But basically it's very simple math: we're super successful and we have a ton of things we want to make. Ton of things requires ton of dudes; hence us hiring a ton of dudes.
(I don't think that anyone on the core team of Dominion is a very recent hire, but a LOT of the areas that expanded massively contributed to Dominion. Basically there's no department at Riot that didn't at least double in size once or twice in the last year.)
The result for you guys should be that we're improving our quality in ALL areas--from the quality of our art to the design of our heroes to the stability and features of our platform to things that you may hardly notice, like the quality of our videos. I mean, compare the Art & Sound Dominion behind the scenes video we posted today:
to our lame xmas video from last year:
(where you can see me throwing sausages at a door)
Basically we made a lot of money by making an awesome product and decided to invest that money into making more awesome. This has been a successful approach so far
This new game-mode sounds very interesting and especially the time that each game is supposed to last. It can be frustrating when you are strapped for time but really fancy a quick game of LoL, but it never ends up being the case.
when i first read this and only looked over it very fast i thought it would be capture the flag man this would have been awesome imagine Warsong Gulch (bg in WoW) in moba format
I think Dominion is going to make a different set of characters viable, which is very nice. Characters like Mundo, Teemo, Heimer are obviously going to be much better, but I also think that 1v1 specialists will be buffed because there will be so much split pushing, which means increased use of assassins and anti carries (Poppy, Kat, Eve).
On August 09 2011 06:59 BouBou.865 wrote: @Klein does this explain the huge hiring spree Riot had a month ago?
We've been working on this for way longer, so not really, no. And it's not so much spikes as a steady ramp up. I've been with Riot for a year and four months not, and I cannot remember a time when we didn't hire for a lot of positions. Currently our list of job openings is the biggest it's ever been--and that was true a month ago and two months ago and half a year ago. We've steadily ramped up hiring.
The way Riot got started was like this: let's get an awesome game to market RIGHT NOW. We were a super-lean company back then. When I started at Riot, there were three dudes in customer support (Skribbelz, Loote and the legendary Jesse Perring, who was an intern back then)--now we've got 20 people in EUROPE ALONE.
But basically it's very simple math: we're super successful and we have a ton of things we want to make. Ton of things requires ton of dudes; hence us hiring a ton of dudes.
(I don't think that anyone on the core team of Dominion is a very recent hire, but a LOT of the areas that expanded massively contributed to Dominion. Basically there's no department at Riot that didn't at least double in size once or twice in the last year.)
The result for you guys should be that we're improving our quality in ALL areas--from the quality of our art to the design of our heroes to the stability and features of our platform to things that you may hardly notice, like the quality of our videos. I mean, compare the Art & Sound Dominion behind the scenes video we posted today:
(where you can see me throwing sausages at a door)
Basically we made a lot of money by making an awesome product and decided to invest that money into making more awesome. This has been a successful approach so far
Sorry for being such a noob but why was Jesse Perring so legendary?
Anyone else thinking this mode might overtake SR both in casual and competitive play? (assuming its somewhat balanceable) I mean for Riot its just the best thing they couldve done to combat Dota2, it attracts casual players even more (the big advantage Riot has over Dota2) and it's even more different than Dota2, meaning people will probably still play LoL, even if they buy Dota2.
On August 19 2011 01:38 Woony wrote: Anyone else thinking this mode might overtake SR both in casual and competitive play? (assuming its somewhat balanceable) I mean for Riot its just the best thing they couldve done to combat Dota2, it attracts casual players even more (the big advantage Riot has over Dota2) and it's even more different than Dota2, meaning people will probably still play LoL, even if they buy Dota2.
If it's better than SR, then I hope it does overtake it. Really can't say anything before I play it.
amen my friend amen every other week they release a champion and they can't even do that... they will announce it and delay it several times before it actually comes out and when it does it is disappointing
On August 05 2011 02:19 AtlaS wrote: I was afraid this was going to happen again. I'm getting sick and tired of all of these announcements. Don't get me wrong, Dominion sounds like a great idea, but in the end it's just another announcement. They announce these great ideas but then months go by and nothing happens. Spectator mode, shiny graphics patch, magma chamber, replays? All of these announcements were great but we still don't have them. It's incredibly frustrating to play a game where relatively simple things take nearly a year to develop.
Riot, you've got a great game and a big fan base. But these announcements are starting to feel like slaps to the face. You've gotta start closing announcements before you open up new ones. Don't keep teasing us like this.
On August 19 2011 01:38 Woony wrote: Anyone else thinking this mode might overtake SR both in casual and competitive play? (assuming its somewhat balanceable) I mean for Riot its just the best thing they couldve done to combat Dota2, it attracts casual players even more (the big advantage Riot has over Dota2) and it's even more different than Dota2, meaning people will probably still play LoL, even if they buy Dota2.
I really really doubt it, probably everyone will play it on release then go back to SR.
I doubt that everyone will abandon it, but I also don't think that it will overtake SR! It does seem like a fun alternative to the old map/mode if you and your friends are bored
On August 19 2011 01:38 Woony wrote: Anyone else thinking this mode might overtake SR both in casual and competitive play? (assuming its somewhat balanceable) I mean for Riot its just the best thing they couldve done to combat Dota2, it attracts casual players even more (the big advantage Riot has over Dota2) and it's even more different than Dota2, meaning people will probably still play LoL, even if they buy Dota2.
I really really doubt it, probably everyone will play it on release then go back to SR.
Personally I think if they can balance it well and the skill cap is high Dominion could become a very viable competitive format. From a spectator point of view it's much more exciting imo.
TT had issues in that they failed to properly balance heroes/items etc. It's largely the same as SR, only on a smaller map, rife with issues that were never dealt with. I also feel that Riot's goal with TT was simply "to release a new map," without much further thought.
My hope is that they've learned from TT and are actually going to put effort into Dom, which they've implied via the different items, summoner spells, etc. that are very much for Dom. The question will obviously be balance, which is currently something they're "waiting and seeing" but if shit really hits the fan (ie. tanks are too dominant) we'll really see how much effort they're willing to put into that map.
From watching the stream i have a feeling that the strongest champ here may be nidalee, it seems that the 2 most important attributes of a good dominion champ are: mobility and strong 1v1, nidalee has both and dominion has quite a few bushes as a bonus. Also good defenders with nice amount of cc seem to be important: amumu (aoe ult, stun q, overall tankiness), heimer (towers so strong at defending points), and ... sona (her ability to kite and heal seems to be really good for holding points by running around the "turret")
Plus cait lifesteal-tanked enemies so hard, new BF sword seems soooo strong
Any champion who can sit and disrupt capture points with their sheer presence also would be strong. Sustained AoE and damage with inherent tankiness like Amumu/Mundo seem like they would be excellent to just head over to a group of enemies capturing a point and disrupting/delaying them until backup can arrive.
On August 22 2011 05:11 noezke wrote: Looks amazingly fun can't wait. Can see some champions being nerfed because of how powerful they'll be in Dominion :| which will suck for 5v5.
Dominion IS 5v5.
Also earlier on stream Phreak and Rivington said that they aren't going to be balancing champions for map but map for champions.
On August 22 2011 05:11 noezke wrote: Looks amazingly fun can't wait. Can see some champions being nerfed because of how powerful they'll be in Dominion :| which will suck for 5v5.
Honestly I doubt they will balance champions around Dominion. They already said they're most likely to balance items instead (which they have), not to mention the sheer frenzy of the games (insane gold/sec, early power, small constant teamfights) means it's unlikely the one champion will dominate really hard and be OP in this game mode like Mundo/Singed/Udyr on TT for example.
On August 22 2011 05:11 noezke wrote: Looks amazingly fun can't wait. Can see some champions being nerfed because of how powerful they'll be in Dominion :| which will suck for 5v5.
If a champ is too powerful in Dominion they should just make that champ unplayable in Dominion IMO.
I don't know if it's because of the teams that are playing right now, but I am not impressed by what i see on the stream. It so ridiculous. Maybe the respawn time is too fast because people just suicide left and right.
On August 22 2011 06:37 rupert wrote: I don't know if it's because of the teams that are playing right now, but I am not impressed by what i see on the stream. It so ridiculous. Maybe the respawn time is too fast because people just suicide left and right.
The game is won by destroying enemy nexus, not by having the best KDA. The same actually applies to SR. I think it's really cool that people can afford to die for points, really makes the game more aggressive. Though this is played by all riot people so not the best indicator of what real makes will look like
I think the game is going to come down to having a really strong team at 15 min and then just sitting on 3 bases.
Edit: Dominion is not going to have a pool of more than 20 viable heroes at the most. SR rift has basically all classes viable because it balance for that, Support makes no sense on dominion as they have long cd ultis and limited early game strength. Ranged DPS are going to have a lot of the not being viable such as MF and Ashe. Corki and Trist might become semiviable.
Well there are clearly cases of people sticking around for no reason and then dying (several times we've seen 100-hp or so champs standing on a capture point and then just instantly die when an opponent shows up). But there have also been a lot of cases where Phreak is showing a teamfight and then it ends and you look up at the status of the game and the team that just won the teamfight is down 4-1 in points because they lost 2 during the fight. Clearly the first case is a terrible suicide but in the second case dragging on the fight even if you were losing seems to have worked.
But I mean we just saw a full-defense Renekton in several games despite the fact that it was obvious he didn't actually have the damage to do anything, so it's not like this is necessarily high level Dominion play.
They've said its slated for release shortly after Pax Prime which is August 26-28, so maybe begining of sept?
I'm interested to see if they do anything to help Nasus and his Q, will be a shame if they dont as it would be little more than an auto attack reset/sheen proc.
Is there a way to watch the VODs of the Dominion Riot vs. Pros and the Riot vs. Riots inhouses? I only got to see one or so of the matches, but Phreak and someone else were casting them.
Question - Is there any chance that we might be able to create games with different ticket counts?
Would be nice to try a 250 or a 1000 ticket game among friends. Especially as there's no other game mode that would let you adjust the length of the game.
On August 22 2011 21:51 jtype wrote: Question - Is there any chance that we might be able to create games with different ticket counts?
Would be nice to try a 250 or a 1000 ticket game among friends. Especially as there's no other game mode that would let you adjust the length of the game.
Riot is prolly too afraid of IP farming to let that happen.
On August 22 2011 21:51 jtype wrote: Question - Is there any chance that we might be able to create games with different ticket counts?
Would be nice to try a 250 or a 1000 ticket game among friends. Especially as there's no other game mode that would let you adjust the length of the game.
Riot is prolly too afraid of IP farming to let that happen.
Would be a simple case of just changing the amount of IP gained based on the ticket amount/game length. They already have measures in place to stop custom game IP farming anyway.
I assume Riot will release ranked Dominion at some point since it doesn't seem to me like it should be much work to do so.
There was a post on the official forums asking about altered Nexus HP values for Dominion and Riot said it's not included but they'd think about it (not that that means much). Right now they're not going to release it as-is but with customizable HP because the passive gold and experience gain (maybe other stuff too) is aimed at the current approximate 20 minute game length.
I don't see how IP-farming would affect allowing different Nexus HP values at all, since you already get more IP per time played by playing multiple short games instead of one long game unless you have long queues (and if you just make a custom with a friend you can already just sit in-game and not capture any points to allow for infinite game length with the default 500 HP, though I think IP gains cap out at somewhere around an hour).
On August 23 2011 05:21 crate wrote: I assume Riot will release ranked Dominion at some point since it doesn't seem to me like it should be much work to do so.
There was a post on the official forums asking about altered Nexus HP values for Dominion and Riot said it's not included but they'd think about it (not that that means much). Right now they're not going to release it as-is but with customizable HP because the passive gold and experience gain (maybe other stuff too) is aimed at the current approximate 20 minute game length.
I don't see how IP-farming would affect allowing different Nexus HP values at all, since you already get more IP per time played by playing multiple short games instead of one long game unless you have long queues (and if you just make a custom with a friend you can already just sit in-game and not capture any points to allow for infinite game length with the default 500 HP, though I think IP gains cap out at somewhere around an hour).
Actually the red said that they would wait for release, and after a bit if its a popular 'wished-for' item they'll prioritize it ^^
Different Ticketcounts might happen if there is enough demand but it´s not just changing the number. Dominion is balanced around 500 score which includes the amount of gold and XP income as well as the point at which kill stop granting score.
Dominon hype was to counter the Dota 2 International Tournament hype. At gamescom there were a lot more people at the Lol Booth than the Dota 2 booth. It will take some time until Dominion is released.
I'm thinking 3-4 patches from now (about a month and a half). Beta is starting soon, and knowing how efficient Riot has been in the past, it won't last too long.
I'm just going to bump this thread a bit, since closed beta is started and we can just use this to talk about it now (and let people know when the time windows are open).
Some theorycraft to start a discussion... from the games I played and the streams I watched I think dominion will probably be played somewhat like this IMO:
The lineup consist of a number of pushers (with promote), letz say 2, who constantly push the lane equivalents. Champions like lee sin, singed, jax etc come to mind who can't be killed by a low amount of opponents and scale great with farm. Tanky AD champs like lee sin are very suited for this because warmogs stacks up REAL FAST on this map, singed is suited because catalyst is super broken (you get level ups so freaking fast), and thus even roa if only because of the passive and the fact that you farm it so incredibly fast.
Then you get about 3ish roamers who engage the enemy where possible/fitting, defend capture points, help out the pushers if they get zerged and complete quests. Everything with strong disables and burst would do well. You need somebody who leads the pack, like ali/blitz or whatever, then somebody who can poke/kite well if outnumbered and also for canceling capturing then mb some burst like talon or poppy etc.
Creep support is not AS important as in SR but its certainly huge. Also the additional gold you farm from minions is pretty huge considering you get more gold from csing and less from killing in dominion.
Atmogs sounds pretty good. As clickrush said, you can stack the warmogs quickly with champion kills. The map has built-in armor and MR penetration, so health is a relatively better defense stat. The dominion items have health, so atma is even stronger when you get them. The question is always how much can you get done before atmogs completes, when you are relatively weak compared to building other things.
On September 22 2011 04:31 Liquid`Tyler wrote: Atmogs sounds pretty good. As clickrush said, you can stack the warmogs quickly with champion kills. The map has built-in armor and MR penetration, so health is a relatively better defense stat. The dominion items have health, so atma is even stronger when you get them. The question is always how much can you get done before atmogs completes, when you are relatively weak compared to building other things.
Unless it's getting changed, what Tyler stated is correct. The map gives everyone a bonus aura that speeds up hp+mana regen, as well as giving some free MPen and APen.
On September 22 2011 04:41 MoonBear wrote: Unless it's getting changed, what Tyler stated is correct. The map gives everyone a bonus aura that speeds up hp+mana regen, as well as giving some free MPen and APen.
that's super duper cool. might be helpful if they you know, mentioned that on their official gameplay website.
On September 22 2011 04:31 Liquid`Tyler wrote: Atmogs sounds pretty good. As clickrush said, you can stack the warmogs quickly with champion kills. The map has built-in armor and MR penetration, so health is a relatively better defense stat. The dominion items have health, so atma is even stronger when you get them. The question is always how much can you get done before atmogs completes, when you are relatively weak compared to building other things.
Yeah thats why I suggested that on a pusher and not on a roamer. Well I now I act like these terms allready exist in dominion. But well I'am pretty sure we will have some kind of organization and set roles.
Has anyone played the beta yet it was on today 10-12 i think. It was a lot of fun really frantic tho. I played tanky dps rammus XD so fun my friend showed me the build. But its crazy how many stuff goes on at once.
The funny thing is that dominion is almost anti farm you get free gold and exp so all that matters are towers. Had some crazy games with it going to like 4-5 points. Anybody else play?
On September 22 2011 04:31 Liquid`Tyler wrote: Atmogs sounds pretty good. As clickrush said, you can stack the warmogs quickly with champion kills. The map has built-in armor and MR penetration, so health is a relatively better defense stat. The dominion items have health, so atma is even stronger when you get them. The question is always how much can you get done before atmogs completes, when you are relatively weak compared to building other things.
I tried atmogs on croc in my first game (also my best game of dominion),but the game is basically over by the point you'd get it. I had ~8-10k gold at the end of most games, 12k highest over 5 games. Warmogs + boots 2 is around 6.5k gold, so you're finishing that w/ a few minutes left in the game (mine lasted ~15-20 minutes)
Unless it's getting changed, what Tyler stated is correct. The map gives everyone a bonus aura that speeds up hp+mana regen, as well as giving some free MPen and APen.
What are the numbers? 'Cause I've got a feeling this is helping bruisers and hurting carries.
Champions start at level three with 1375 gold. There is a constant aura on this map granting all champions adjusted stats: 15% armor penetration. 5% magic penetration. 20% healing reduction. (this stacks additively with other healing reduction effects) mana regeneration bonus. A fixed experience gain over time. Increased gold gain over time. (6 gold per second) Reduced gold gain by killing champions Increased gold gain by killing minions. Respawn times are reduced.
pushing minion waves is very important and effective if you do it on the right champions. you get so much more gold and capturing is exponentially easyer.
I played 2 games when the beta was up and it seems to me that the dominion only items are straight up better than normal items for their cost. The only normal item you would actually get would be boots. The frozen mallet upgrade is utterly insane.
On September 22 2011 05:42 dignity wrote: I played 2 games when the beta was up and it seems to me that the dominion only items are straight up better than normal items for their cost. The only normal item you would actually get would be boots. The frozen mallet upgrade is utterly insane.
Entropy looks pretty nice (because the active is disgusting) but the other items don't seem to me to be out-of-line compared to the SR items. Entropy is also not that great while the active is on cooldown.
I have them included on my item cost spreadsheet here, but obviously the big point of several of them is the stuff that's not easily priced. I'll probably get around to adding a bit more information about Sanguine Blade and Kitae's Bloodrazor soon now that I have some reason to do so.
Also, I'm not sure if this is a bug or not but Ionian spark (the sword of the divine upgrade) seems to be proccing from ad(needs confirmation) spells. I have seen caits q and r both proc it off.
On September 22 2011 04:58 clickrush wrote: pushing minion waves is very important and effective if you do it on the right champions. you get so much more gold and capturing is exponentially easyer.
This is such a misnomer. Yes, minions capture points faster, but any half-decent team will instantly have someone to defend the node in the time it takes you to push the wave.
On September 22 2011 04:58 clickrush wrote: pushing minion waves is very important and effective if you do it on the right champions. you get so much more gold and capturing is exponentially easyer.
This is such a misnomer. Yes, minions capture points faster, but any half-decent team will instantly have someone to defend the node in the time it takes you to push the wave.
This is completely true. From experience, its much "easier" to ninja-capture points when their entire team is focused somewhere else. The minions help apply pressure, nothing more.
I still don't get the Dominion idea at all. I mean, I need to get all the rules with the points and stuff. Anyone got a nice link or care to explain really simple?
Team with less nodes than other team loses nexus health. The bigger the difference, the faster you lose health. There are 3 places around the map to haste you, 1 shield pickup spawning in the middle, and some (crappy) health restore pickups. Minions spawn from nodes own. Towers attack people who attack enemies near it, but you can channel to capture it w/o it attacking you
On death passives from karthus and Kogmaw seem like they are really good in Dominion. Sucks that chogath is going to be pretty useless in Dominion though since he cant' stack his feasts.
Dominion seems fun but with less strategy involved from the streams I've been watching. Sustain is not viable, items or heroes. Everyone dies faster because of the Dominion AD and AP penetration buff so I don't think it really helps to build defensive items either. It's just diving in and killing or dying.
Dominion Aura
There is a constant aura on this map granting all champions adjusted stats:
15% armor penetration. 5% magic penetration. 20% healing reduction. (this stacks additively with other healing reduction effects) mana regeneration bonus. A fixed experience gain over time.
Ok, so Dominion is like. I don't really know. I've not had that much fun with it and because no one was on skype to listen to me, I'm going to type out my frustrations.
So as a majority of characters I didn't feel like there was a lot I could do. Fighting other people was just sorta dependant on whether or not you had help coming. If you 1v1 someone you won't live long enough afterwards to warrant doing so and you barely seem to have enough time to recover between fights.
Pushing creeps is a waste of time in almost every case. Running past the creeps to cap the tower is always a better option so why bother with creeps and 1v1 fights.
Defending a tower comes down to whether or not you can stop everyone capping and survive in the process so it's barely worth doing that. The towers deal so much damage it's the same story on the offensive too. If you can stop the tower shooting then you're fine. It just seems to be completely down to if someone is channeling or not.
On the offensive: Tower not shooting = easy win Tower shooting = Completely fucked.
and vice versa on the defensive.
Moving as a group of three isn't really worth it because you could be aimlessly trying to capture three bases instead.
Basically it's come down to: If you're not capping a base, go cap a base. If people are capping the same base as you, run away and cap your own base. Don't bother defending points if you're even slightly outnumbered, don't 1v1 fight, don't push, don't group up. Also, the points don't matter until the last 50 or so. Coming back from 250-50 seems a frequent occurance. So the early game doesn't matter at all and there's no real way to get a substantial advantage. I dunno, it's just kinda dull atm.
Akali is also everywhere.
Btw, pro tip: Kayle super good on dominion. Has solutions to all the issues the map presents.
That's why there's gonna be Normal Draft for Dominion as well, so You can ban akali/jax/rumble and other stuff ;-) I've just played 4 games premade, me as akali, won 4 of them, was pretty fun to be honest )
On September 22 2011 10:42 Flicky wrote: Basically it's come down to: If you're not capping a base, go cap a base. If people are capping the same base as you, run away and cap your own base. Don't bother defending points if you're even slightly outnumbered, don't 1v1 fight, don't push, don't group up. Also, the points don't matter until the last 50 or so. Coming back from 250-50 seems a frequent occurance. So the early game doesn't matter at all and there's no real way to get a substantial advantage. I dunno, it's just kinda dull atm.
OK, played my first 2 games of dominion just now (can't play anymore ), and it's pretty fun. Didn't do too great but won both games.
GP seems like a really strong pick right now. Jax is good but I'm not sure that my build was all that great for dominion, or if I just played him wrong. I went dodge boots, gunblade and then that BV replacement. I would have built triforce but the game ended before that.
I have a feeling that I should have got a bit more movespeed, but how exactly, I'm not sure yet. Boots 5 seem really good, but I reckon just going Tri Force and FoN might be a decent option.
Was only able to play 3 games but this is what I got so far:
1) Rammus is very strong. Armor stacking + passive + DBC + Shard Aura (like 15% Armor pen or so?) = awesome damage and you're unkillable btw.
2) Mobile burst champs like Akali and to some extent Nidalee are really strong, too.
3) Tanky DPS > Ranged AD
I tried Tristana in my last game and even though I did really well (Boots + IE + PD at around 10 minutes is strong for Dominion I guess?) it just wasn't enough because you only got 5-8 more minutes left until the game is over.
There was an Amumu that got 3 people in his ult so I could do a triple kill without taking any damage but the remaining Renekton and Jax killed us 2v3 with over half their HP left.
Garen starting with Boots 1 + Pickaxe is very strong, too.
Well unfortunately I was playing Trackmania when they released Dominion beta on EU and was alerted to it by a friend with 10 minutes to go so I only got one game in, but that game is the most fun I've had with anything in weeks.
Flicky, I think you're reading too much into things; trying to find strategy in what seems to me to be a frantic game of individual skill. Things like "don't bother defending points if you're even slightly outnumbered" is a vast exaggeration. That's black-and-white terminology. There's nothing stopping you from ducking and diving with a hero like, say, Talon, landing small hits on two or three heroes with your ult and getting out unscathed until your teammates show up.
Skills are used differently here, builds will look vastly different (I found myself maxing W with Orianna because Level 1 Q was enough to position the ball and prevent caps) and we've really only scratched the surface. It's not Summoner's Rift. It's almost an entirely new game; you should treat it as such.
- Go for towers, and not the creeps that much. - Do not chase heroes - kills are not THAT important. Let them run and capture the tower instead. - Do not team up more than 3, and try to stay away from teaming up 3, since you open up your defenses on the other towers. - Play a beefy char like: Udyr, Singed, Nunu, Rammus and some tanky dps-characters like Akali, Irelia, Riven and so on.
I pwned with Ezreal and still lost .. Had like 25 kills and 4 deaths. It's more important to catch the towers, than getting the kills.
I assumed the mode would be more balanced because it was 5v5. Nope. Its worse than TT. The map is too big by about 50%, so everything comes down to 1v1 and 2v2 fights, or else you lose the whole map. Which basically puts us at TT type heroes being godly. Only because everyone starts at 3 with extra gold, they are even MORE godly.
i found it fun because of no laning and just go kill kill kill with some OP hero that gets a crapton of gold automatically, but in the long run i rather play SR.
I played only one game in dominon, it felt so new and giddy I had no clue what to do so I just started with Singed. Morg is severly op in this map a fkton of CC and she has a "Banshees veil" with her shield. Cant wait to do it again.
On September 22 2011 19:11 EatMySpell wrote: Is the Dominion going to be opened as well for tonight? I've played for bout 2 hours at 1 am on EU-NE today, want to rape some faces today as well :D
I didnt like dominion much. I was expecting this fast-paced mode to be fun but it was just a huge chaos for me, not much strategy involved. I think I prefer longer games, go Magma Chamber!
Maybe I just need to wait till some sort of strategy develops and its not just GOGOGOGOGO!
On September 22 2011 20:26 -Kato- wrote: I didnt like dominion much. I was expecting this fast-paced mode to be fun but it was just a huge chaos for me, not much strategy involved. I think I prefer longer games, go Magma Chamber!
Maybe I just need to wait till some sort of strategy develops and its not just GOGOGOGOGO!
I had pretty much the opposite experience. The games went for a little bit longer than i thought, but theres alot of stratergy to it. Which points to hold at which time, delaying caps etc. Also the completely new strategy behind character builds (because its quite different in Dominion) and also the different team compositions that play well. It may not have been as fast paced as they initially implied, but its much faster than 5v5. Still long enough to enjoy, and its fantastic having a game mode where you get such small margins between winner and loser. (Had one game where we were ~100 points down, came back with 11 points remaining)
On September 22 2011 19:11 EatMySpell wrote: Is the Dominion going to be opened as well for tonight? I've played for bout 2 hours at 1 am on EU-NE today, want to rape some faces today as well :D
The most you'll have is an hour's notice or so like we saw last night. In the paraphrased words of a Riot employee, "if we tell you when off-peak is, it will quickly become peak".
Had my first game in Dominion. Raped face with Ez. :D I agree, its all chaos but then again, its not like we had a strategy but neither did the other team :D
5 bases, when score reaches X game is over. You cap points by channeling, it's interrupted by dmg, lot of different scales of fighting happening, there's buffs to be found on the map.
I mean really? :D
Tho it looks like bruisers will reign supreme, you need to be able to 1v1 in so many places.
Played some dominion games yesterday and here's what I saw.
Support, ranged AD, and (to an extent) ranged AP heroes fall short in this mode. 90% of melee AD heroes have a way to close the gap or can just pick up flash or ghost. And without a team to meat shield for them, squishy heroes die often and quickly.
Anyone with high mobility is extremely useful to a team, as you can pick up Priscilla's Blessing (15% reduced capture time) and run around doing nothing but capping towers.
Support (Taric, Soraka, Sona) Everyone recieves 20% healing reduction (this stacks additively with other healing reduction effects) while in Dominion. This makes Taric's, as well as Sona's, heal hit for about nothing. Soraka may be able to stack enough AP to counter it somewhat, but then you be so squishy someone could breath on you and you would die.
Rammus and Xin are two heroes that stood out while I was playing Dominion.
Rammus would ball/ghost top to capture the neutral point. They then rushed Priscilla's blessing, which also has a 30% move speed increase activation. The entire rest of the game, aside from a few instances toward the end, Rammus would be running around the map capturing undefended points.
Xin, coupled with the passive 15% armor penetration you get from Dominion, wrecked everything. I seriously didn't see a single person do poorly as him. Pub teams are usually short on team work and it showed with how spread out everyone was. It doesn't take long for a Xin to catch people alone before he has a Sanguine Blade (60 AD, 15% lifesteal, Attacks grant 5 AD and 1% lifesteal, stacks 7 times.) and a Light Bringer (50% attack speed, 20 AD, Attacks grant vision of the target for 5 seconds).
i think trynd really strong after like 8 minutes because noone can 1v1 him if he has some items, so if he decides to capture a point u need 2 for defence.
On September 23 2011 00:31 LaNague wrote: i think trynd really strong after like 8 minutes because noone can 1v1 him if he has some items, so if he decides to capture a point u need 2 for defence.
jax, lee sin both destroy him 1on1 for example. pretty sure there are more who do.
On September 23 2011 00:31 LaNague wrote: i think trynd really strong after like 8 minutes because noone can 1v1 him if he has some items, so if he decides to capture a point u need 2 for defence.
jax, lee sin both destroy him 1on1 for example. pretty sure there are more who do.
maybe i build my lee wrong, but i didnt do much against a trynd in dominion.
chaox was building several gunblades on akali and simply tanking people with all the lifesteal and there's no shortage of 1v1s for akali in dominion from those games seen. Ofc no one really has solid tactics yet, but that really seemed too faceroll, melee bruisers didn't stand much chance vs all that regen.
might be an idea to get executioners calling in dominion if you start seeing multiple gunblades.
first impression was, this is just a playground for bruisers/assassins. I don't see any place for casters, supports or AD carries. You have to be able to 1v1 well, there's much less crap in the way while fighting (creeps), less walls and pathways to keep yourself safe or anything, so be a bruiser or assassin or go back to SR.
On September 23 2011 01:00 daemir wrote: chaox was building several gunblades on akali and simply tanking people with all the lifesteal and there's no shortage of 1v1s for akali in dominion from those games seen. Ofc no one really has solid tactics yet, but that really seemed too faceroll, melee bruisers didn't stand much chance vs all that regen.
might be an idea to get executioners calling in dominion if you start seeing multiple gunblades.
Ya, akali with mass spell vamp sooo strong. You deal rly good damage and you have crazy sustain, smth that's pretty hard for anyone else to get.
bruisers and assassins are also OP in SR when ppl mindlessly run around the map and kill/die. What matters is how you play. I think ppl will figure out alot of stuff in the comming weeks.
I think which APs ADs and supports that will be viable in Dominion will be defined by how well they can escape/be mobile/otherwise deal with a bruiser breathing down their necks. I don't expect Sona to do well, but Janna is pretty baller - always nado bruisers never die. Can play her a more AP style so she does more relevant damage, too - don't have to worry so much about the lack of money - feels like everyone gets about the same cash to work with in dominion.
But yeah, bruisers are always good vs uncoordinated teams, whether it be on SR or Dominion. I think they'll rule Dominion until people figure out when to group up and when they can defend a point solo.
I feel like a viable metagame will have a team take 1 or 2 champs who can lock down a turret on defense solo and at minimum stall for reinforcements for an ok amount of time if 2-3 come at his defense point (Heimer, kennen seem like they could accomplish this. Hourglass rush seems viable for them, too.) and a killsquad of mobile bruisers with possibly a supporty cc-bot like ali janna leona for the offense. AP chars seem really good on defense - they generally have enough aoe / cc / something to hold off 1v2 defending a tower. Anytime you're left alone, you pick up a nearby health pack or even B (it takes much less time, and its pretty short to walk back.
people with enough aoe to keep anyone from capturing a point while alive (mumu, singed, etc) and can build tanky enough should be able to support a group of 3 or 4 who travel around and clear objectives quickly.
wow it's so hard to snowball. i was 19-4-8 with about 35 more minions slain than anyone else, and I only had a 2k-3k gold advantage at the end of the game (15k vs 12-13k of everyone else)
So much fun, played 10 games straight with rammus and revive, blitzing thru whole map after a death about twice a game is awesome for point control and breaking enemy defense.
On September 23 2011 04:03 EffectS wrote: I don't really get which sort of heroes are good at this... I've crushed with mantheon and then i fail with gp...
More complaints about dominion: Gold is too low: you never get past 3-4 big items. Levels are too low: Most games end with you level 16-17 Oracle's Elixir is completely worthless. You WILL die at least once per 2 minutes, usually more often.
On September 23 2011 04:42 Craton wrote: More complaints about dominion: Gold is too low: you never get past 3-4 big items. Levels are too low: Most games end with you level 16-17 Oracle's Elixir is completely worthless. You WILL die at least once per 2 minutes, usually more often.
srsrly had that on the enemy team twice in a row could not get near the capture point he sat at, sure you can just go round but theres no getting him off that one point.
Dominion has been sooooo infuriating lately. Team comp: Zilean, Nidalee, Orianna, Leblanc, someone else who can poke and has mobility. Strategy: Poke enemies when they try to capture a point, run away if they chase. Eventually they will end up 1v2 if they keep chasing and will die. Kite all game long and avoid fights unless you have numerical advantage. Mobility advantage and poking = king, Dominion is no longer fun for me.
I finally got to play a game and it was pretty fun. We had Singed up top with Garen on bottom while me as Alistar and to assassins roamed around killing stuff. It worked really well because Singed and Garen could hold long enough for the rest of us to come in an kill everything. Also I had the movement 5 boots so If the enemies tried to ninja cap I could run over and throw them all into the air.
One thing I noticed though is that the IP/XP gain seemed really low, I wonder if that will be increased when it comes out of beta.
Dominion not out yet, Beta for today will end in 15 minutes sadly. The games are still very chaotic in my opinion, lets see what strategies will evolve.
Ryze does okay, but he's still not on par with the overpowered champs like akali. Kog also gets just as overpowered late as he does on SR (actually moreso thanks to the new items).
On September 23 2011 06:21 Xedat wrote: Dominion not out yet, Beta for today will end in 15 minutes sadly. The games are still very chaotic in my opinion, lets see what strategies will evolve.
On September 23 2011 04:03 EffectS wrote: I don't really get which sort of heroes are good at this... I've crushed with mantheon and then i fail with gp...
Mobility Wins 1v1 Low CD reliance
personally i think heroes like pirate yi and trynd arent as good since they rely quite a bit on farm(imo) and since you arent getting like any minions, and hardly get gold for kills(+ everyone can keep up with your items unlike SR they arent gonna be nearly as strong)
Played a ton of games non-stop until the beta went down.
It's definitely more action packed, and there's a LOT more room for mistakes than on SR. Hell, someone completely new to the game could jump right in and be fairly decent.
I've been having fun playing. I don't really care if it ends up unbalanced, but it hasn't felt awful to me in the couple games I played (granted, half of those were on a level 1 EU account so I only saw the free week champs, lol). I mean, I really don't think the problem with TT is balance but more that TT just plain isn't fun.
I like that it takes about 20 minutes ... or maybe 10 if you get really blown out. Go pick a champ, have what fun you can, and get to the next game.
Got Phreak on my team in one game and he picked Kat and just kind of killed the entire enemy team repeatedly, lol. Won that one pretty quickly.
On September 23 2011 06:44 Novalisk wrote: Played a ton of games non-stop until the beta went down.
It's definitely more action packed, and there's a LOT more room for mistakes than on SR. Hell, someone completely new to the game could jump right in and be fairly decent.
I disagree, one bad team fight or 3-4 losses can easily turn a huge lead into 4-5 cap and a loss fairly shortly
the room for mistakes is slightly bigger but its not a lot bigger by any means
On September 23 2011 06:59 Craton wrote: It's literally exactly like Arathi Basin in WoW -- Nobody will ever defend when you have a 3 cap, so you inevitably throw away your advantage.
On September 23 2011 06:59 Craton wrote: It's literally exactly like Arathi Basin in WoW -- Nobody will ever defend when you have a 3 cap, so you inevitably throw away your advantage.
It's fun. I feel like they're going after the FPS and action crowd with this. Some of my friends who never got into LoL might like it and play exclusively this mode. As others have pointed out though there are a few godlike champs that kinda break it.
Anyone else feel like it's kind of mindless as well? Like, I don't feel as though there's a ton of strategy behind it. Nor do I feel like there are a bunch of clutch plays like in SR. Maybe it's because the game just moves so fast.
Definitely fun. Will be good if I only have a few minutes to play or want to introduce the game to people who find SR boring.
On September 23 2011 08:36 Seeker wrote: We need a guide for this map ASAP....
I'm suffering like crazy from not knowing what to do.....
?
Get more nodes than the other team. Quests are cool. That's about it.
Pretty much. This mode feels like it doesn't have any depth. Just kill shit and capture shit. Then you win. Or you don't. Who cares.
Anyone else feel like the points are just completely arbitrary and pointless? Why even have them there? Just replace it with how many towers I've taken/defended instead. Giving me random points for doing shit just lets kids say, "I'm better than you. Look at my score, I'm so pro." I just don't see the point in having a "high score" feature.
On September 23 2011 08:36 Seeker wrote: We need a guide for this map ASAP....
I'm suffering like crazy from not knowing what to do.....
?
Get more nodes than the other team. Quests are cool. That's about it.
Pretty much. This mode feels like it doesn't have any depth. Just kill shit and capture shit. Then you win. Or you don't. Who cares.
Anyone else feel like the points are just completely arbitrary and pointless? Why even have them there? Just replace it with how many towers I've taken/defended instead. Giving me random points for doing shit just lets kids say, "I'm better than you. Look at my score, I'm so pro." I just don't see the point in having a "high score" feature.
I think as soon as some stuff gets figured out, there will be a more tactical and strategical form of playing the game. It's still very new after all, so let's see how it turns out. And yeah, the stats are maybe not really the best way to see the "skill" of a player, but it's not that different in summoner's rift, where the guy with the best stats does not have to be the best player. I think. O.O
On September 23 2011 08:36 Seeker wrote: We need a guide for this map ASAP....
I'm suffering like crazy from not knowing what to do.....
?
Get more nodes than the other team. Quests are cool. That's about it.
Pretty much. This mode feels like it doesn't have any depth. Just kill shit and capture shit. Then you win. Or you don't. Who cares.
Anyone else feel like the points are just completely arbitrary and pointless? Why even have them there? Just replace it with how many towers I've taken/defended instead. Giving me random points for doing shit just lets kids say, "I'm better than you. Look at my score, I'm so pro." I just don't see the point in having a "high score" feature.
I think as soon as some stuff gets figured out, there will be a more tactical and strategical form of playing the game. It's still very new after all, so let's see how it turns out. And yeah, the stats are maybe not really the best way to see the "skill" of a player, but it's not that different in summoner's rift, where the guy with the best stats does not have to be the best player. I think. O.O
Having a good KDR and creep score in SR is pretty telling. It doesn't mean you're "the best" or anything like that. But obviously if you have two kills and fifty CS more than your opponent you're winning your lane pretty hard. If I have 500 points more than someone on the other team or my team that doesn't really mean anything to me. The scores just seem really arbitrary to me and I'd rather be able to see how many towers people have defended/taken in-game.
It's possible that strategies will evolve but it just feels like it has very little depth especially compared to SR. That's not necessarily a bad thing. I think they're definitely just trying to appeal to casuals and make something that's simply fun. It does that very well. I just don't think it'll keep my interest and will be something that I just play when I get bored or don't have time for a real game.
I'm having a lot of fun/success with ghost/revive eve.
Starting with boots of mobility and rejuv, skill 2 points into W and 1 into E. Cap one of the close points to start, then just be an asshole the rest of the game by stealthing and backdooring all day, and picking off stragglers. My item build ends up being Boots of mobility, Priscilla's Blessing, lich bane, shurelias, then more AP or more movespeed.
On September 23 2011 09:39 overt wrote: Having a good KDR and creep score in SR is pretty telling. It doesn't mean you're "the best" or anything like that. But obviously if you have two kills and fifty CS more than your opponent you're winning your lane pretty hard. If I have 500 points more than someone on the other team or my team that doesn't really mean anything to me. The scores just seem really arbitrary to me and I'd rather be able to see how many towers people have defended/taken in-game.game.
It's pretty common for people who have done very little useful things to have high scores. You get a lot just for zerging kills and very little for denying capture for an extended period and then dying or neutralizing a point and then dying for it. There's no measure for "distracting" the other team by requiring multiple people to stop you.
maybe its me, but I'm starting to see a difference in offensive champs, defensive champs, and utility (backdoor) champs.
like a well played heimer can defend a point 2v1 ezpz. but can't push into the other team and cap. meanwhile, panth can just shit all over anything that isn't particularly defensive, take like one tower hit, and then cap np.
I think once people figure out which champs can do what well, we'll see some more depth.
On September 23 2011 10:13 Shiragaku wrote: AP Janna is so strong here...she gets all the gold she wants for all the AP items available. No need for wards or GP5 items.
The scores just seem really arbitrary to me and I'd rather be able to see how many towers people have defended/taken in-game.
I don't think it tells you how many you've defended because that's more of an X amount of time sort of thing, but I'm pretty sure it tells you how many they've capped/neuted just to the left of your "score"
having tried a variety of champs now... eve is definitely the most fun. start boots and AP/health item, then go mobility, triforce, the +15% to capture rate item (its active is boss. it has health regen so you can find it in shop there), then whateva. i also added MS quints and 21 utility ghost flash. swing by speed boosts all the time, be everywhere. use ult in every fight, often times more than once haha.
I really hate this game mode when playing solo q/people not on skype or vent. You NEED to be in communication in order to win, or at least have one person telling people what to do because otherwise you just get absolutely fucked.
Seems really fun actually, played 1 game without thinking much about it(just kind of going on AB instincts from playing it eleventy billion times); Wither is OP as fuck and since aside from like, Akali, all the other champs that people are saying dominate get raped by it I think that makes Nasus much better than 2nd tier, don't even need a ton of Q farm.
mvspd too gud. low CD stuns are stronger (leona suprisingly good at defense) bruisers with no way in are pretty crap (udyr). haven't seen a single AD carry do well except ez, but ez doesn't fall into traditional carry roles.
seems to be that anything with beast skirmishing in SR midgame does really well. AD carries can get farmed by ~12-15 mins, but game's usually going to be another 5 mins max, and they don't make up for sucking for 10 mins. No nashor > win to farm up for.
Burst AP is weak as hell. anything CD limited in general is weak, shaco/heimer get around this by having turrets/boxes. no laning makes casters in general very weak - everyone keeps diving.
i dunno. suprisingly balanced everything considered. the new items don't even affect much. mostly the removal of old items and the buff/nerf you get to arpen/mpen/heal.
Tried out this new mode and it's amazing fun. I'm pretty much the definition of a casual LoL player so maybe what I'm saying is blasphemy. Honestly the fact that the game time is cut down to 20 minutes is what sold it for me. I usually avoided getting heavily invested into moba games because its requires a 40 minute game time on average, and the style is just not for me.
Veigar is surprisingly good, though not god tier. His stun basically covers the entire turret and can interrupt entire teams, and people are trending toward mobility boots and other stuff that lacks tenacity so ez to land meteors.
from what i've read on reddit/solomid/LoL the verdict is that rammus/heimer are OP in dominion. Heimer being an unkillable fortress next to a turret and rammus being an uncatchable tower-ninja that can't die.
though imo and with my limited experience dicking around on trist/kog, i would say ad carries are going to be a bigger problem in the long run with the retarded scaling they get off the increased gold. once they finish ie/pd, they just 3 shot everything they see and nothing can really stop them. you can't cap towers if your dead.
I platyed like 20 games of this today, and found that Twitch is actually really freaking good. The increased gold you start with at the beginning is pretty much the best thing ever so you get to find those few champs who are straggling or are just really squishy and just 1v1 them. Snowball characters are real strong too, especially Kat.
While capping points is important, I found that if you have like 4 people do nothing but push in 2 groups or as 1, and then one guy just running around being a total dick to the enemy by BDing or just picking off stragglers/controlling storm shield you get pretty easy 5 caps. Fastest game I had today was 9 minutes ending 450 to 0.
On September 23 2011 14:23 mufin wrote: from what i've read on reddit/solomid/LoL the verdict is that rammus/heimer are OP in dominion. Heimer being an unkillable fortress next to a turret and rammus being an uncatchable tower-ninja that can't die.
though imo and with my limited experience dicking around on trist/kog, i would say ad carries are going to be a bigger problem in the long run with the retarded scaling they get off the increased gold. once they finish ie/pd, they just 3 shot everything they see and nothing can really stop them. you can't cap towers if your dead.
It depends on the AD. Trist and Kog'maw are pretty well suited to it due to range and mechanisms that work well in small skirmishes for screwing over an opponent. Ashe, despite her ult, can get screwed quickly.
Also, Revive #1 summoner spell. The team with more Revives wins top every time.
The scores just seem really arbitrary to me and I'd rather be able to see how many towers people have defended/taken in-game.
I don't think it tells you how many you've defended because that's more of an X amount of time sort of thing, but I'm pretty sure it tells you how many they've capped/neuted just to the left of your "score"
It tells you at the end of score screen towers defended. I'm not sure yet how it defines this. If it's just making enemies cancel a capture or if it has something to do with making them cancel a capture and then holding that point for X amount of time. Regardless at end of score screen it'll tell you how many caps and defends you had. I don't get why it doesn't have that when you press tab. Instead they put that stupid score thing there.
And yeah, assassins and AD carries seemed like the best champs for this game mode. Singed is also pretty good if you run him purely for defense. The amount of time it takes for one person to get Singed to go away so they can cap the point is usually not worth it or the enemy will swarm you.
As someone else pointed out though Ashe is total shit in this game mode. Caitlyn, Vayne, Trist, Kog, Corki, and Ezreal are all really good though imo.
edit for two more things: Someone mentioned boots. I don't see any point to get any boots except for Mobility, Mercs, or maybe CDR. Zerkers just don't feel right on that game mode and spell pen points are worthless cause you should have 20% spell pen from the start and no one really builds MR on this mode. Boots of Swiftness would probably be good too on some champs.
To second what Craton said, it feels unbalanced. Maybe just cause it's new. I usually don't feel like I "outplayed" the other team when I win nor do I feel like I got owned when I lose. It's just really hectic and weird. Dunno, will be interesting to see what happens in the future with it.
I think we'll need many more games to see how to balance things. It's too early to call imbalanced yet, because we don't know the strategies and matchups and how they will work out.
On September 23 2011 14:23 mufin wrote: from what i've read on reddit/solomid/LoL the verdict is that rammus/heimer are OP in dominion. Heimer being an unkillable fortress next to a turret and rammus being an uncatchable tower-ninja that can't die.
though imo and with my limited experience dicking around on trist/kog, i would say ad carries are going to be a bigger problem in the long run with the retarded scaling they get off the increased gold. once they finish ie/pd, they just 3 shot everything they see and nothing can really stop them. you can't cap towers if your dead.
It depends on the AD. Trist and Kog'maw are pretty well suited to it due to range and mechanisms that work well in small skirmishes for screwing over an opponent. Ashe, despite her ult, can get screwed quickly.
Also, Revive #1 summoner spell. The team with more Revives wins top every time.
The problem is you can''t cap things fast enough before heimer gets backup. Pantheon is pretty good his ultimate rapes people that try to bd.
played it yesterday, the circular map is kind of meh, didn't like it really. also revive and champs with cross map abilities like TF, lux, pantheon etc are kind of dumb.
AP casters are fairly week but I think theres a bit of exception, kass has lots of mobilty, I did a lot of games as Leblanc today. I think as we see roles and actual strats develop there will be places for an AP nuker with the power of LB, the spammability of a Cass. based on the 6-7 games I got in today I think playing a nuker you need to move between the speed boost points constantly and shoot around to cap/defend points and keep stormshield buff as much as possible
Im kinda disappointed by dominion...its seems imbalanced and tailored for *casuals*..you can play a team with all carry and win the game easily not much skill involved, at least it will get some realty bad people away from ranked with the elo reset LOL!
i tried it out and it was fun, its MUCH more casual oriented, fast, short and you cant fail so they cant flame you :D . but i still prefer the classic setup and im kinda sad magma chamber got delayed cuz of the dominion
On September 23 2011 21:14 SouL_sc2 wrote: Im kinda disappointed by dominion...its seems imbalanced and tailored for *casuals*..you can play a team with all carry and win the game easily not much skill involved, at least it will get some realty bad people away from ranked with the elo reset LOL!
I wouldn't say its tailored for casuals its just casual friendly when you compare it to summoners rift since you don't get punished as hard if you make a minor mistake. Dominion still has complexity and depth its just not fully explored yet and I would cry my eyes out if it was since its only a couple of hours of open beta. All carry can work but you can still get item countered. And playing a carry with an all-in build will punish you if you ever decide to walk alone.
Honestly its just different from summoners rift and when you say stuff like "tailored for casuals" your making a direct comparison with summoners rift but if you look at other similar modes like AB in WoW, conquest in BF or domination it UT you'll see that the quest system is actually pretty clever as well as the mid buff and circular design as well as the fog being removed in the circle and towers - all these things ad depth outside of the standard capture and hold gameplay. You actually can't roam alone if the other team has a defending nuker at their points and holding points for as long as you can in 1v2 (or more) situations will help your team in their offensive pushes.
I would actually dare to say that dominion requires more teamplay and tactics then summoners rift and if not its at the very least way more reactive.
I was playing Domino last night while I was drinking some hard cider, and I figured out the mode is about mobility, sustain, and not needing too much mana. Nunu is a good choice with his eat minion hp regen, passive free spell, and imba slow. I lost with Urgot, but he can charge up 1/4 of a tear on the pad in the first minutes of the game. Tried Shaco, and found anybody with a built in flash is pretty good. Played a game with 3 smites on our team and won that because promoted minions are op. All in all its a fun mode, but I prefer to play summoner's rift.
It's definitely fun, we took a basically assured loss (it was like 13-100) and came back and won 6-0. There is assuredly strategy to it, as long as you're smart. Back capping, drawing people away from towers, split pushing, getting turrets "low" then running away and coming back to cap in <1 second when it's clear... it can be pretty nice.
It's clear that there are certain characters that are better than others here. Oddly, though, it's not the same as SR. Obviously carries aren't as good, but some bruisers that aren't as good in SR (Blitz, Trynd, Rammus) are just stupidly good in DM.
I don't think we'll be seeing many DM tournaments, but I also don't think it's outside the realm of possibility.
On September 23 2011 21:14 SouL_sc2 wrote: Im kinda disappointed by dominion...its seems imbalanced and tailored for *casuals*..you can play a team with all carry and win the game easily not much skill involved, at least it will get some realty bad people away from ranked with the elo reset LOL!
On September 23 2011 21:14 SouL_sc2 wrote: Im kinda disappointed by dominion...its seems imbalanced and tailored for *casuals*..you can play a team with all carry and win the game easily not much skill involved, at least it will get some realty bad people away from ranked with the elo reset LOL!
Honestly? Not really, since there's a lot of split-pushing style stuff going on. Carries work well in a group, but if I'm Jax/Akali/Riven capping a tower and a single AP or AD carry comes along to try and defend, I can kind of just shit all over them solo. The best counter to big roaming groups on that map is just to abandon the tower they're attacking and take the rest. Eventually 1 or 2 of them will split off, which is much easier to manage by yourself or with one teammate.
It's going to take a while before people develop actual strategies, that's all. we're going to see a different caste of dominant champions, but I don't think we'll see any inherent balance issues. yes, your favourite AP carry probably isn't the best choice (but mine is LOL), but there are a lot of other options, and champs with fringe kits like eve/veigar are going to see little resurgences on the map. it's fun!
i'm pretty sure with a stable team i could analyze the map and determine some close-to-optimal strategies
On September 23 2011 21:14 SouL_sc2 wrote: Im kinda disappointed by dominion...its seems imbalanced and tailored for *casuals*..you can play a team with all carry and win the game easily not much skill involved, at least it will get some realty bad people away from ranked with the elo reset LOL!
You could do that on SR too when it was released.
The full map isn't revealed on SR and you don't get a shitton on money by not doing anything. Dominion is fun but it should absolutely not be seen as anything close to an online competitive game, because there is little to no skill involved in it if you know the basics of video games. And even being terrible you can be useful, which makes no sense to me.
Good thing is playing normal or ranked while Dominion is active makes you play much more interesting games !
I feel like dominion is basically just going to be my replacement for coop vs ai matches. i really doubt someone would care if you afk for a few minutes and it will give you your win of the day bonus faster. it also will help you test out new shit without having to worry about consequences.
2nd game of dominion, a warwick cries his eyes out because I was *gasp* defending a node as heimer instead of roaming around getting killed. Apparently I should not hug my turrets so he could kill me >_>
After playing dominion plenty of times last night, it made me realize how much more fun normal actually is.
I'm assuming the gameplay/meta will develop more as time passes...but it feels way too casual for it to become competitive (as of now)...It's just a clusterfuck ATM. It's a great change of pace...but I'm just not feeling it...we'll see after a couple months of people playing it.
...and yeah...Rammus is crazy strong in Dominion....so........fast....
My hope is they don't make global balance changes to make dominion balanced (probably will ruin normal balance wise if they do so)
Don't like people who think once you capture three, it's best to just defend those three. Positioning comes first. If you have the two nodes closest to you and you've just grabbed the one on top, but you only have one guy left there with half health, and two enemies are coming up, you 100% have to have that guy go back to base and have teammates attack their bot. Instead, that guy dies and then teammates stream up there and die or go up there and just turn around, wasting a ton of time. Best rule of thumb is to look for advantageous fights based on positioning. If you don't have something special in store for opponents who are gonna dive you 2v1 (karthus, yorick, etc, who are actually gonna be great at delaying), then you should just run away.
SR is deeper, more focused on strategy, positioning, and preparation. It's good if you want a focused match where every advantage you can get counts and you need to plan ahead to win consistently.
DM is a fast, pick up and play type game where you focus on matching your skills against another person (or people) and take quick advantages. It's more tactical, where on-the-fly decision making is more necessary.
Both styles are fun. I play SC2 and I play Halo, I'll probably play both of these modes too. I can see how some people prefer one over the other.
On September 24 2011 02:25 Slix36 wrote: Whichever team has akali wins, end of story.
Get a Lightbringer or Hextech Sweeper and watch those stealthers suddenly become not so useful. Riot has done a pretty good god thinking about balancing issues like these through items. There's generally a solution for everything!
On September 24 2011 02:17 Lanzoma wrote: I love dominion, but for some reason, I've raged more in there in one day than I have in the past month.
Queue as 5 with other people. All make troll picks, like mass speedy or globals and AoE. Somehow win. It's hilariously fun. Imo, Summoner's Rift is like the tryhard map where you fight 5v5 and Dominion is the map where you all go nuts and do random things because in the end only nodes matter.
On September 24 2011 02:34 freelander wrote: what do you think about the new summoners?
Since ninja-capping is so powerful, I don't see how Promote helps so much except when you band up together. Cooldown seems a little long. Garrison also doesn't help too much since if you're using it when capping, either you don't take damage in the first place since you're capping it, or you'd rather have exhaust to kill the person defending it. Using it defensively also doesn't feel right because I'd rather straight up kill the person in front of me than getting some extra damage from the turret. If there's only 1, you want to 1v1 them with turret backing. If there's more than one, they can remove all turret damage by having one cap them and one of them fighting you.
But that's just my first impressions. Heimer + Garrison has been kinda fun actually.
On September 24 2011 02:25 Slix36 wrote: Whichever team has akali wins, end of story.
I'd actually say Lee Sin (THE BLIND MONK) instead. His strengths from SR are even better here: high mobility, damage, and toughness. He can take and defend points solo no problem. I've yet to see a Lee Sin team lose.
On September 24 2011 02:34 freelander wrote: what do you think about the new summoners?
Promote is situationally useful. One person with it is nice, because they get to push a lane without being there, or let it push to bait an enemy over while they hide. It's also kinda nice in the beginning, if the enemy attacks you near your minions you can promote one and actually do a fair amount of damage with it.
Garrison is... I dunno. It sounds amazing in theory, but in the end you can just ignore the bonus by walking away from the tower or capping it. It's very nice if you initiate a teamfight under a turret, but most people just step into the lane or jungle, and it's useless if the tower is neutral. I don't mind people having it, but I don't think it's that great.
On September 24 2011 02:25 Slix36 wrote: Whichever team has akali wins, end of story.
It's so easy to pick against Akali. She's only good as a last pick against a team that has already picked champs she can beat. If it's like Lee Sin, Riven, Udyr, Rammus, Karthus... Akali not gonna help much. She can suicide into the Karthus and then he can continue to defend/attack the node anyway.
I've had a lot of success playing as warwick in dominion so far. I'm not sure what build to go yet, though. magewick seems to DOMINATE early but fall off later in the match when it really matters and the reverse seems true for some sort of AD/ASwick.
On September 24 2011 02:25 Slix36 wrote: Whichever team has akali wins, end of story.
It's so easy to pick against Akali. She's only good as a last pick against a team that has already picked champs she can beat. If it's like Lee Sin, Riven, Udyr, Rammus, Karthus... Akali not gonna help much. She can suicide into the Karthus and then he can continue to defend/attack the node anyway.
She's actually pretty insane if you stack gunblades and a warmogs. All that spell vamp and life steal. >.>
On September 24 2011 02:25 Slix36 wrote: Whichever team has akali wins, end of story.
It's so easy to pick against Akali. She's only good as a last pick against a team that has already picked champs she can beat. If it's like Lee Sin, Riven, Udyr, Rammus, Karthus... Akali not gonna help much. She can suicide into the Karthus and then he can continue to defend/attack the node anyway.
This, basically. I play Akali a lot and love her, but going against a tough champion like a tank or bruiser is just bad news unless you SEVERELY outgear/level them, or catch them low.
On September 24 2011 02:17 Lanzoma wrote: I love dominion, but for some reason, I've raged more in there in one day than I have in the past month.
Queue as 5 with other people. All make troll picks, like mass speedy or globals and AoE. Somehow win. It's hilariously fun. Imo, Summoner's Rift is like the tryhard map where you fight 5v5 and Dominion is the map where you all go nuts and do random things because in the end only nodes matter.
I've only queued as 5 so far, but haven't tried fun picks yet (other than tanksoraka - always Q never lose point). I think it's just that when people chase that low hp enemy and ignore the ninja cap a screen away from them, a little part of me dies :p
That said playing Ezreal is like holy shit, I'm having so much fun I could explode.
On September 24 2011 02:25 Slix36 wrote: Whichever team has akali wins, end of story.
It's so easy to pick against Akali. She's only good as a last pick against a team that has already picked champs she can beat. If it's like Lee Sin, Riven, Udyr, Rammus, Karthus... Akali not gonna help much. She can suicide into the Karthus and then he can continue to defend/attack the node anyway.
She's actually pretty insane if you stack gunblades and a warmogs. All that spell vamp and life steal. >.>
I'd rather have Jax then. And that's still really vulnerable to CC, since survivability is so dependent on lifesteal. It's pretty difficult to snowball and get extremely more powerful than your opponents. So even if you are something like 10-1, you can still get stunned and die before you can do anything about it, because your opponents have only ~1k less gold than you and are 1 level behind you (no underleveled bot lane to prey upon). And while she is mobile with her R, that depends on having something to R, and it's relatively worse because everyone is picking and building for mobility to the point that Akali is actually relatively immobile.
Even if she's tier 1, that's still just tier 1, not some god tier where the team with akali wins every time. Re-read the statement I was responding to haha
On September 24 2011 02:13 Liquid`Tyler wrote: Don't like people who think once you capture three, it's best to just defend those three. Positioning comes first. If you have the two nodes closest to you and you've just grabbed the one on top, but you only have one guy left there with half health, and two enemies are coming up, you 100% have to have that guy go back to base and have teammates attack their bot. Instead, that guy dies and then teammates stream up there and die or go up there and just turn around, wasting a ton of time. Best rule of thumb is to look for advantageous fights based on positioning. If you don't have something special in store for opponents who are gonna dive you 2v1 (karthus, yorick, etc, who are actually gonna be great at delaying), then you should just run away.
I agree, even after only a couple games it's pretty obvious why take 3 and defend is terrible. No "power triangle" being the specific problem, but also low defender advantage, and having only 5 people to contest 5 locations. There's no formation you can defend 3 nodes with (even adjacent) besides global cheese comps. People are mindlessly trying to pull the strategy from WoW, take 3 and defend was clearly the most consistent strategy there. For dominion though, the more I think about it, the more I think defending is a waste ESPECIALLY if they come with 3 or more people.
The reasoning is that with 5 cap locations and only 5 players per team, you really can't guard everything. SOMETHING will always be undefended. If they attack a node with 3 people, you could realistically defend with 3, but why bother when with those 3 people you could go cap two other locations?
It will be interesting to see how the meta evolves, but I think it will be a mess. Without the ability to effectively defend there will be no consistency at all, you will be playing musical chairs for 20 minutes. Perfect for casual play but nothing more.
"mindless fun" is really not fun when youre playing someone like xin or morde and can literally faceroll and do ok
i suck balls with all the high skill cap characters and i think i simply always will. for me the fun of LoL is in the strategy so dominion is going to be extremely boring. But i respect other people's different opinions.
Tyler, just curious, who would you put at "God Tier" for Dominion? I'd probably say Lee Sin, Rammus... Maybe Noc/TF/Panth because their globals are amazing for attack/defend.
It's so easy to pick against Akali. She's only good as a last pick against a team that has already picked champs she can beat. If it's like Lee Sin, Riven, Udyr, Rammus, Karthus... Akali not gonna help much. She can suicide into the Karthus and then he can continue to defend/attack the node anyway.
She's actually pretty insane if you stack gunblades and a warmogs. All that spell vamp and life steal. >.>
I'd rather have Jax then. And that's still really vulnerable to CC, since survivability is so dependent on lifesteal. It's pretty difficult to snowball and get extremely more powerful than your opponents. So even if you are something like 10-1, you can still get stunned and die before you can do anything about it, because your opponents have only ~1k less gold than you. And while she is mobile with her R, that depends on having something to R, and it's relatively worse because everyone is picking and building for mobility to the point that Akali is actually relatively immobile.
Even if she's tier 1, that's still just tier 1, not some god tier where the team with akali wins every time. Re-read the statement I was responding to haha
Jax probably would be a better choice, just because you get some cc with him and can completely skip the warmogs because of his passive.
I read what you were responding to, and I agree she isn't anywhere near god tier. But I don't agree she's only good as a last pick.
People have to remember that Dominion is in beta still and will always be getting balanced. It will be interesting to see if they end up making Champions themselves different in the two game modes. Maybe they already have?
I also think that it will get plenty strategic and less hectic when people actually figure things out more, although hopefully it always retains the constant action, which I think it should.
After my first day of playing I'm loving Dominion more than Summoner's Rift.
I played 12~ games straight last night as a group of 5 to 3 at all times, dropped one game through the night because of theorycrafting and previous games based on this idea.
Notes of dominance:
If you have a snare aoe of any kind that puts you ahead of any other hero. The ability to stall, wait and delay is beyond valuable in every scenario.
Hypermobile characters are also incredibly valuable, evelynn and kassadin both saw incredibly high return for their ability to half cap towers and give my team a delay or a point advantage for absolutely free.
Global AOE's, Be it mobility or damage, you need them. Period. No questions.
Hard cc's are nice but the more AOE's you get onto your team for consistent spread damage is not only necissary, but critical in offense and defense.
Heros with beyond sight range ability shots. Kogmaw / cait is incredibly incredibly strong on this map. I would be able to go dual top kog/cait and take on 3-4 people as karthus/kog and there would be nothing the team could do. Diving wasn't able to be done, fleeing was difficult. We got precedence on buffs and we dictated where the fighting happened. Very Very key to have these things here on the team.
Karthus: I main karthus up until 1700 elo~ granted not high but I haven't been able to play as much, so take this for what its worth. Karthus we say is OP, but the flexibility and gravity of his overpoweredness is not mentioned yet. Example, I played this at pax with a janna, a singed, a shen, a panth and my self. We set the PAX speed win record by 3 minutes. Why? Karthus can take on near infinite numbers of players if played correctly.
Defensively he is a monster - the wall is not only an amazing kill initiator but the debuff on it, ensures a tower kill if you are dived, not just the slow but the armor/mr debuff is just awesome.
Offensively his q range is retarded long and forces people off their own tower, his W spots the lane next to you to negate ganks or ensure a ganks success. His e... well its OP duh. His ult interrupts captures, good fucking game there. All of these abilities ensure that Karthus can 2-3v1 bottom while the rest of the team goes top and does a clean sweep of top lane.
Sustainability is key. An early catalyst the protector gives you massive longevity. I don't have to go back until i have enough for CDR boots and Roa. Going immediate cata ensures that you never ever leave lane, your CS becomes retarded high, like the last game of the night we played I was at max build by 27 minutes with a 1:05 minute ult. No one could cap or kill anything with out skylasers becoming a factor. Mass health build is suggested, Roa/rylais, tanky karthus as we saw at DH finals was incredibly potent as a constant dps factor and it holds true here as a defensive karthus method of build.
The visability of the map takes away karthus' primary weakness, surprise ganks. On this map I seriously cannot imagine a better champ to permaban.
For a continuation of the team strategy that should be in place for Dominion this returns to a place of familiarity to me, competitive node based defensive and offensive play ala Arathi Basin in WoW, which this game is a nigh carbon copy of.
Your team MUST have space occupiers and stallers. At minimum two characters that when you see them beneath a tower you go "fuck, thats really not going to work". Fiddlesticks, is an amazing hero in this regard, a walking killing ccing aoeing, silencing, self healing death machine that ignores anything you do to him.
Your team MUST have a hero with retarded good mobility, the wind buffs are a big boon in this sense but a hero like kassadin which starts VERY strong due to guaranteed gold/skips his worst levels. Evelynn whom was nothing short of the most annoying piece of shit possible for the opposing team due to her constant "lol appear, dissapear, stalling a tower cap".
Two Walking Death Tanks. Ren and Jax; super good at this. The ability to ignore people and then punish them for standing still on a turret is very good to have on a team and few characters have this capability to the extent that these two have.
Supports can be annoying, but insofar the only one that made a difference was Janna, and thats because shes a dick slowing, knocking up, ridiculous range on tornado and an ult that totally saves towers AND everyone on them. A+++ hero.
TLDR: Get high health high speed champs with CC and you will do astoundingly well. This game mode does not operate like summoners rift and acts like World of warcraft, a lot more action and almost no farming. So to think of this game in a LoL mind set is a ridiculously big mistake.
Glhf guys, gonna try and continue the streak later today! Though I'll be trying Anivia, another hero in which I will bet my bottom dollar fucking rapes this map in every way shape and form.
On September 24 2011 03:16 Requizen wrote: Tyler, just curious, who would you put at "God Tier" for Dominion? I'd probably say Lee Sin, Rammus... Maybe Noc/TF/Panth because their globals are amazing for attack/defend.
Leesin definitely doesn't guarantee a win hahaha, my team beat three lee sin teams last night without blinking, hes just another hero as far as I've been able to tell.
Noc, panth very good heros. TF is alright but needs more dependable damage. Panth and Noc come into a fight already attack with no opportunity for a counter to stop them or prep for them.
Karth and Renekton cause more pain and suffering that I can imagine. Ren because he never fucking dies and is retardedly mobile, like its beyond frustrating.
Just played 6-7 games , OMG Riot great fucking job! dominion is like a whole different game, Its AMAZING. You really feel like a BADASS when they last 10 seconds kick in and the countdown starts. :D.
Yeah, I totally agree that Jax is probably one of the best assaulters in Dominion. If an enemy just sits on a turret to defend, you just get Gunblade and pounce them, ignoring the turret for the most part and blowing them up before it kills you.
And yeah, Fiddle just denies attacks from less than 3 people for the most part.
I'd say another to look out for is Malzahar as a defender. Yeah, he's squishy, but if someone attacks your tower, silence wall -> suppress + tower and voidlings... they go poof. It's pretty nice, one of my friends plays him a lot.
I played 12 games of Dominion yesterday. I only won 1 game. BUT IT WAS SO AMAZING. I don't even care if I lost, because it was honestly SO MUCH fun. Me and my friends were on skype and we'd get so excited and it was so much more.. entertaining than summoner's rift. So fast paced!
I played Caitlyn for 11, and Miss Fortune for one. Miss Fortune I found didn't do as well, but Caitlyn I did pretty well with most of the time. Her Ult helps a lot, and the traps are even more useful. Super fun! Can't wait to play again!
On September 24 2011 04:58 Raeleigh wrote: I played 12 games of Dominion yesterday. I only won 1 game. BUT IT WAS SO AMAZING. I don't even care if I lost, because it was honestly SO MUCH fun. Me and my friends were on skype and we'd get so excited and it was so much more.. entertaining than summoner's rift. So fast paced!
I played Caitlyn for 11, and Miss Fortune for one. Miss Fortune I found didn't do as well, but Caitlyn I did pretty well with most of the time. Her Ult helps a lot, and the traps are even more useful. Super fun! Can't wait to play again!
Yeah, Cait with Boots/PD/Speed buff on map can run to basically any point and ult/Q anyone attacking it. It's not bad, she's just kind of squishy if caught out of position.
akali is good because of how well she scales early in dominion. double passive going strong, and she can simply roll over a lot of champs w/ superior damage and self-healing. she can be beaten, but it's not just her stealth that is making her strong, esp. in the early engagements when trying to establish a point advantage. i wouldn't ban her at this point, like i would rammus, but she's a very solid pick.
nocturne seemed underplayed. his ult range @ 6 isn't very good for stopping backcaps, but at 11 and 16, he is pretty good at stopping backcaps and being unpredictable at assaulting points. if there's one thing wrong with the crystal scar, it's that fog of war isn't all that important. noc is one of the few champs that ppl can't see coming, and he's a decent duelist so he can win a lot of 1v1s over people guarding points.
On September 24 2011 04:58 Raeleigh wrote: I played 12 games of Dominion yesterday. I only won 1 game. BUT IT WAS SO AMAZING. I don't even care if I lost, because it was honestly SO MUCH fun. Me and my friends were on skype and we'd get so excited and it was so much more.. entertaining than summoner's rift. So fast paced!
I played Caitlyn for 11, and Miss Fortune for one. Miss Fortune I found didn't do as well, but Caitlyn I did pretty well with most of the time. Her Ult helps a lot, and the traps are even more useful. Super fun! Can't wait to play again!
Yeah, Cait with Boots/PD/Speed buff on map can run to basically any point and ult/Q anyone attacking it. It's not bad, she's just kind of squishy if caught out of position.
i tried corki for the same reason but with rockets it worked quite well i couldnt take on bruisers 1on1 but any CCer guy + me killed 2 bruisers
On September 24 2011 04:50 Requizen wrote: @Thurokiir, your post is too long to quote lol.
Yeah, I totally agree that Jax is probably one of the best assaulters in Dominion. If an enemy just sits on a turret to defend, you just get Gunblade and pounce them, ignoring the turret for the most part and blowing them up before it kills you.
And yeah, Fiddle just denies attacks from less than 3 people for the most part.
I'd say another to look out for is Malzahar as a defender. Yeah, he's squishy, but if someone attacks your tower, silence wall -> suppress + tower and voidlings... they go poof. It's pretty nice, one of my friends plays him a lot.
I want malz to be good at defending, I really do but as far as from what I've experienced dominion follows the laws of MMO Arena based node game play too closely for that. Need stuff that slows, fears and silences in large amounts, not just double aoe that is skill shotted. That said, holy shit is malz good at peeling people off turrets, you wanna take a turret? Make sure malz is with you, he'll make it possible.
On September 24 2011 04:58 Raeleigh wrote: I played 12 games of Dominion yesterday. I only won 1 game. BUT IT WAS SO AMAZING. I don't even care if I lost, because it was honestly SO MUCH fun. Me and my friends were on skype and we'd get so excited and it was so much more.. entertaining than summoner's rift. So fast paced!
I played Caitlyn for 11, and Miss Fortune for one. Miss Fortune I found didn't do as well, but Caitlyn I did pretty well with most of the time. Her Ult helps a lot, and the traps are even more useful. Super fun! Can't wait to play again!
Go cait defend with a trynd, you will get so many kills it will be embarassing. Trap spam your tower as well it makes you want to nerd rage smash your desk when you click on the tower, it goes off and then suddenly SHAIINK, and your timer is reset.
Just had a game with a team of xin,kat,noc,ww & panth, the enemy team went 4 thornmails. Not very much fun. Also, don't think I've had a game without blitz yet. And yet, not a single good one has been on my team.
So, I've played about 13 games of Dominion today and lost 2 of them only with my team trying to make some crappy picks, like 5 AD's only and stuff and didn't work out well. Also I had a game when opposing team rushed Guardian Angels, damn shit was pretty heavy to counter, especially when they had Heimer/Irelia/Shaco/Rammus, lol.
Dominion is pretty much fun. For me, the most important thing is the first teamfight @ the top tower. We always run 1 bot to cap it and we run 4ppl on ghost to take the top tower immediately and fight if necessary. The 2nd one near the respawn is taken after this, or being re-capped if enemy team tries to counter-cap it if we rush top.
Pretty tense all of the games, after ~ 40 games I see that we kinda improved and it's not OMG LEZZ RUSH FOR TEH KILLZ games but some strategical moves about pushing and defending.
If they gonna balance it out, it's gonna be really heavy action packed mode ;-)
I don't really care which champions are better for the moment, but damn, fighter feel so good on this map ! Was playing Riven a lot, and fighting take all his sens on dominion.
I've been having a blast with Rumble on Dominion (i say, only played like 2 games with him), pretty decent/spammable moblilty + damage shield, good pokes and his ulty has the range of Nocs to stop capping and if you catch someone out in the open there not getting away.
Well, no shit bro... the mode has been out for like 2-3 days? Rofl.
I feel like I end up running around like an idiot for 10-15 minutes, then winning anyway. I don't understand. Seems to me like fighting another champ is kind of unnecessary, better to run around and ninja.
Karthus is definately on the toptierlist on Dominion, even if he dies at a turret he will still deny the cap Janna is amazing, tornado and ult is so good on this map other casters that are really damn good: kassadin, fiddlesticks, anivia
Also, catalyst is also one of the best items on Dominion
We really need to wait and see what it turns out to be over a longer period of time. At the moment most people are just running around like headless chickens and still win.
On September 24 2011 07:06 Requizen wrote: If they're smart, you won't get a chance to ninja. But then again, we're all bad at this.
Except us AB veterans. FOR THE HORDE!
Yeah, I suppose. I just feel like ninja'ing shouldn't be the number one go to strategy. With my buddys we decided after the first like two minutes where you try and cap three things (two bot, three top) it is best if everyone just takes one tower caps it any time possible.
I think Dominion discourages fighting, more than encourages it... which I think is kind of poor design.
Hell, lets use Arathi Basin as a comparison: Arathi has three fairly common chokes, so holding two of the center nodes meant your node at home was fairly safe as for them to take your home node they likely needed to engage you in a rather long path to any given node, kind of like a choke or lane.
Not only that, but players could respawn at any node they controlled, making it hard for even a rogue to stealth by and cap a node without anyone noticing... seeing how I played a Rogue way back in classic, I would know... 9 times out of 10, someone respawned in your face and you just wasted a minute or two of your time doing nothing while the other team had a one player advantage somewhere else.
-.-
Now, we look at Crystal Skar and we see a much more open map, where you don't really have any chokes to defend, and no real defenders advantage because of the run distance between your spawn point and the close nodes is far enough that one player can cap a node before you get there 9 times out of 10.
The result is that running around capping things and ignoring defence (sorry, combat) entirely is not only a viable a strategy, but likely the strongest. Then, either you go ninja-cap stuff, or you get steamrolled. It is like SC2 Protoss vs Protoss, just with silly run-by's instead of 4gates.
I mean, I suppose that is fine if thats what Riot is aiming for, but just because something is fast paces doesn't make it fun. Hell, if anything staring at moving bars and running gets rather stale fairly quickly.
Nasus felt very gimped in dominion, at least with my current playstyle. He is almost entirely unable to farm up his Q, and his slight tankyness is entirely negated by the buff. I feel that dominion too strongly favors the focused characters, and leaves the hybrids in the dust, though this is all from a very small amount of experience with it...
Oh man, after years of playing AB, it was apparent that most LoL people have no idea what they are doing on this map. My teammates in my games so far have done 1 of 3 strategies.
1. Run around the jungle trying to gank other junglers. 2. Running by themself trying to take out an opponent at a tower 3. Run around in a group of 4 taking towers.
Needless to say, we lost.
There is a simply and effective strategy for this game and it will be figured out eventually. Basically the future strategy will be 5 players getting garrison (the most OP ability by far). The basic strategy will be 1 bot, 1 jungler, and 3 pushing the top tower. The bot will be controlled by ranged carrys for the later part of the game. The 3 on top will be constantly fighting for control of the top tower while the jungler is trying to snipe the base just north of each nexus.
Here is the reasoning for the strategy. 1. The bottom base is the easiest to control. It is very close to your base, so if it's in trouble, simply dive a tower and try to get kills or towers, buy some gear, then retake it. 2. The top base on each side is very far away from the enemy nexus, however, there are a lot of paths available making it the ideal gank tower. 3. The middle shared top base is the strongest base to control. If you can control that base you have an easy retreat point and ability to attack any other the other two at the same time while being able to defend your top base.
If your team captures the top base, then leave 1 for defense while sending 2 either to defend a different tower or applying pressure to the opponents top base. Teams will respond by pushing the bottom lane or trying to jungle. The best defense for jungling is, to ignore it. Seriously, this is something people won't understand for a while, but 3-4 players running around trying to gank towers won't work bc 1 player + tower >> 1 roamer. If somehow you capture all 5 bases, then camp their nexus until the game is over.
The problem right now, is people think the most important thing is to kill the opponents. This is very far from the truth. The goal is to defend towers and apply pressure on other towers. A single player can prevent ganks from happening at close towers if you have garrison. The danger, and also the focal point of the game, will be keeping track of the enemy team. In arathi basin, often the team that controls the lumber mill will just sit there defending, while trying to spot the enemy giving out directions. Communication is an effective tool and premades will absolutely dominate in this version.
As far as the game itself, I have some opinions. 1. More minions. Right now minion farming is almost pointless. 2. Longer cap times. It's very very short right now and the game is very chaotic. With an uneven # of towers to control, there will always be tension. A longer cap time will encourage more standard play instead of just randomly ganking everything. 3. Remove the speed bursts. They are unnecessary and promote too much ganking. Trust me,without them, there will still be enough ganking. 4. Make minions a lot stronger. They are very weak right now and don't really help out in defending a tower. 5. Make the tower radius slightly bigger. Ranged characters are far too effective at defending bases currently. Having bigger tower radius will help a lot. 6. People die too easily. It feels like everyone has a really small amount of health. Also, with the new items, it's difficult to tell who is going to win a 1v1.
Basically, all of these things are to help slow the game down. The game right now promotes too much aggression. It's fun but it will wear out.
Also: Think of the game as a classic plate train of paladins and warriors.
You need to control space and area while preserving longevity. Characters that do this correctly and sustainability are key characters to have in Dominion. Assassins that don't have cc/stealth are fairly useless.
CC doom bots, fiddle and ani are fucking kings
The more tools you have to be dominant and discourage people the better you are off in dominion.
PS: HOLY SHIT GHOST/FLASH IS AWESOME Double mobility I knew was going to be good, but... the ability to push a lane hard one way, then ghost and hit another within 15 seconds is retardedly strong.
As for AB, don't get pedantic haha. The idea in AB was that you wanted as few as possible people defending with as many as possible capping. This was used by insane longevity and defensive CD's or insane damage potential. Read: Paladin-Warrior. Mage-Rogue, Shaman Warrior.
If you have a singular character that can do these things it acts like one of the above. Which allows your 4 man rape team to sweep top and when bot evacuates to assist top, you take bot.
It's awesome though, so many lol retards running around just getting absolutely rofl stomped by me and my friends.
On September 24 2011 08:10 Shiladie wrote: Nasus felt very gimped in dominion, at least with my current playstyle. He is almost entirely unable to farm up his Q, and his slight tankyness is entirely negated by the buff. I feel that dominion too strongly favors the focused characters, and leaves the hybrids in the dust, though this is all from a very small amount of experience with it...
Late game farm characters will have little to no place in dominion, dont worry that means veigar too.
Alistar feels decently strong, he can clear caps really easily and can take champs off towers they are defending. Seems like he could be especially strong in a coordinated team. I went 16/8/13 with 10 caps in my first ever game with him (including SR).
this Dominion thing is the best frickin' thin ever added to LoL! good for people woh don't want to paly 35+min games and it really feels like a Death Match mode. so awesome, so packed with battles.
i'm incredbily good in this Dominion thingy, so much better than in Summoner's Rift xD
On September 24 2011 08:23 darmousseh wrote: The problem right now, is people think the most important thing is to kill the opponents. This is very far from the truth. The goal is to defend towers and apply pressure on other towers.
I've played like thirty games of Dominion and I don't think anyone has ever thought this. It's immediately observable that most points come from having more nodes, not from killing opponents. Everyone is concerned with getting three nodes. If you ask anyone if they'd rather get a kill or successfully defend/attack a node, they'd always say the latter. I think people overvalue having a power play, especially when their whole team isn't in good position and at full health, so they kill people and then fail to use the power play for a bigger points lead. That is far from thinking that the most important thing is to kill opponents.
Also I think most people are picking champions that are good at dueling and then simply seeking out duels. Even if they wanted to play a different way, like defending nodes without killing anyone, their champion doesn't allow it. It's the way almost everyone plays non-ranked games in LoL. They pick the champion they like without too much concern for what would help the team the most.
On September 24 2011 08:23 darmousseh wrote: The problem right now, is people think the most important thing is to kill the opponents. This is very far from the truth. The goal is to defend towers and apply pressure on other towers.
I've played like thirty games of Dominion and I don't think anyone has ever thought this. It's immediately observable that most points come from having more nodes, not from killing opponents. Everyone is concerned with getting three nodes. If you ask anyone if they'd rather get a kill or successfully defend/attack a node, they'd always say the latter. I think people overvalue having a power play, especially when their whole team isn't in good position and at full health, so they kill people and then fail to use the power play for a bigger points lead. That is far from thinking that the most important thing is to kill opponents.
Also I think most people are picking champions that are good at dueling and then simply seeking out duels. Even if they wanted to play a different way, like defending nodes without killing anyone, their champion doesn't allow it. It's the way almost everyone plays non-ranked games in LoL. They pick the champion they like without too much concern for what would help the team the most.
Yup. Very true.
I played blitzcrank who was really good at defending towers. Grabbing the enemy then using the tower buff helped me defend a tower for a long time against gankers.
The towers were not enough though if I was attacked by 2.
Another concept is fighting at towers. If you have more towers, then its ok to start ganking as long as you can defend when needed. Attackers should always fight at towers and not chase. Its better to spend a few seconds converting a tower than chasing. Defenders should chase a little since you are delaying them by chasing. Also, as a defender, if you are outnumbered its best to consider the situation. If you have exactly 3 towers with no friendlies in sight, delay then retreat to slow the enemy. 3 towers with friendly nearby, retreat momentarily then defend. 2 towers, no friendlies, yell at your teammates to stop being retarded then gank an enemy tower. 2 towers with friendlies. Bring 2 friendlies with you, stop the rush, then push the next base for a free tower if they dont defend.
Annnie is op in this setup btw, seriously, its beyond ridiculous.
What are some squishy characters that do well in Dominion out of curiosity. Haven't had much time to play Dominion but my game with Annie went well as she has always done pretty well 1v1.
I've played like thirty games of Dominion and I don't think anyone has ever thought this.
This is pretty common knowledge, tbh.
I had a game today where we were winning for most of it and then the enemy team captured the top node and had 3-4 always there. Instead of going to the top left node which was rarely defended, they kept zerging the top node and argued that it was the correct play, completely oblivious of the fact that if you force people to go to one node, it makes the node that's closer to you that much easier to defend or capture.
Also I think most people are picking champions that are good at dueling and then simply seeking out duels.
This is the most effective strategy. Taking a node almost always involves winning a 1v1 fight. If you dominate 1v1s, you can kill them and take the node quickly. If you dominate defensive 1v1 fights, you can prevent the enemy from capturing. However, if you're a harasser, you're largely useless. By the time you poke someone low enough to kill them, they will have backup.
Our strategy: What we've been trying to do is focus capping the top tower and just defend the 3 towers from that point. We honestly don't see the point of overextending to cap the 2 towers near the enemy team when we can easily move back and forth between the 3 towers we already have. Plus, the enemy team can easily get their 2 closest towers back.
If we don't end up capping the top tower in the beginning, we try to send one really fast champ to the 3 oclock (or 9 oclock depending which team we are) and try to bait at least one enemy from top. From there, we simply utilize garrison while the baiter comes back, making it 4v3 under their tower. Rinse and repeat. If for some reason they're gangbanging our bottom tower while we try to cap the top tower, we simply give up our bot tower and send 1-2 fast people to cap their 2 closest towers after we cap the top tower. Then, when we see them going back to defend them, we just tell the 1-2 guys we just sent to come back to base and take our tower back together. But if they don't go back to defend and decide to push hard...well, we're not sure yet lol
Note that this is an ideal strategy, we never follow it perfectly but we do try stick to this as much as possible. And of course, we usually need rammus who's pretty much OP in order to pull this off.
On September 24 2011 11:29 Chairman Ray wrote: Has anyone tried vlad on dominion yet? He seems like he would be pretty good even with his heals nerfed.
I have seen him almost every game. He's very average.
Dominion is pretty fun, but it can't replace Summoner's Rift for me atm. For now, it just seems like a mini-game that you can play if you don't have 40 minutes to play a match on SR. Maybe I'll like Dominion better in a few months or when it has ranked matches.
On September 24 2011 11:29 Chairman Ray wrote: Has anyone tried vlad on dominion yet? He seems like he would be pretty good even with his heals nerfed.
I have seen him almost every game. He's very average.
How can anything be very average? Is that more average than average? :p
I like to play defensive, guarding between two nodes. You have to be mobile in the jungle, getting speed when you can. Also after you win a fight and/or low mana, go pick up a couple health runes. Every little bit helps as you defend a tower. Tag someone trying to snipe a tower and defend at the turret. See so many trying to just solo snipe towers and easy to shut down.
Also I if we are losing the 3rd at the other side I will push the minions. You will capture it x5 faster, or at the very least get some capture time on it, it will be easier to gank the next time you can get it.
Need to try me some Maokai defense. Heimer is great as many have said.
Starting to hate Dominion >< 2 games where the enemy team is either 6 points to losing or even 1 point compared to 100+ on my team, we still manage to lose...wtf I think people get retarded and tunnel vision into capturing one point to win and not thinking of the opposition.
Yea tunnel vision is definitely a part of it, whether it's on capture points or on that singed who's at 50 hp, but as respawn times get longer, getting over confident and then aced can often mean insta-lose as the enemy team just takes more points and camps outside your base.
On September 24 2011 12:05 tyCe wrote: Dominion is pretty fun, but it can't replace Summoner's Rift for me atm. For now, it just seems like a mini-game that you can play if you don't have 40 minutes to play a match on SR. Maybe I'll like Dominion better in a few months or when it has ranked matches.
On September 24 2011 11:29 Chairman Ray wrote: Has anyone tried vlad on dominion yet? He seems like he would be pretty good even with his heals nerfed.
I have seen him almost every game. He's very average.
How can anything be very average? Is that more average than average? :p
I agree with average sentiment on Vlad. I guess very average is like better than 50% of all champs, whereas average could be 40-60%.
Couple thoughts I've been having as I've played more and more-
1- Never cap the opponents top node. It is way to far out of the way, and puts you at risk of dying on the enemy spawn (considering someone must have died for you to get over there in the first place) and then losing top control
2- Top control is everything. I think the ideal strategy is to keep 1 person bot and then use 4 top to control that point.
3- That 1 bot needs to be someone who has an escape like shaco, kass, lee sin. That way they can actually apply pressure to the opponent bot node if they decide to 5 man top, but actually has a way to escape should the enemy turn on them. But again, capping bot is very risky, as dying will set off a chain where they can cap YOUR bot without having to worry about losing control of top, and having an increased chance of getting out since you are going to take a bit to get to bot node after spawn.
4- Once a team has control of top, they need to find a way to see if the enemy is shifting from attempting to take top to applying pressure to bot. 1 person can hold of 1 person forever. 1v2 gets harder, and 1v3 is near impossible. Since Riot decided for some reason that wards are bad, I guess you will have to use shaco boxes, cait traps, teemo shrooms, or something else.
I think Ashe is pretty damn strong on dominion. Just have her solo push a lane early game for farm and she starts doing ridiculous damage really quickly.
Warding would kinda kill the ninja/ambush thingy in Dominion and I'm kinda glad You can't get wards. Instead of it, You have some vision available for all the people and that's it :D
Hey, if you make a new account you can play it now i think, it lets you search atleast. I don't really like playing it but thought you guys would want to know.
I think CDR/Tanky panth is really good on this map. Abuse Q spam with low cd to interupt anything that wants to take your bot tower. Fast gank if they double ninja your close top.
You wont do stupid amounts of damage, but you are hard to kill and mobile with ghost/flash, ult and ghostblade.
On September 24 2011 14:37 Two_DoWn wrote: Couple thoughts I've been having as I've played more and more-
1- Never cap the opponents top node. It is way to far out of the way, and puts you at risk of dying on the enemy spawn (considering someone must have died for you to get over there in the first place) and then losing top control
2- Top control is everything. I think the ideal strategy is to keep 1 person bot and then use 4 top to control that point.
3- That 1 bot needs to be someone who has an escape like shaco, kass, lee sin. That way they can actually apply pressure to the opponent bot node if they decide to 5 man top, but actually has a way to escape should the enemy turn on them. But again, capping bot is very risky, as dying will set off a chain where they can cap YOUR bot without having to worry about losing control of top, and having an increased chance of getting out since you are going to take a bit to get to bot node after spawn.
4- Once a team has control of top, they need to find a way to see if the enemy is shifting from attempting to take top to applying pressure to bot. 1 person can hold of 1 person forever. 1v2 gets harder, and 1v3 is near impossible. Since Riot decided for some reason that wards are bad, I guess you will have to use shaco boxes, cait traps, teemo shrooms, or something else.
Put 1 bot 2 top and 2 counter roam.
Heimer is actually very good bot as he can handle 1v2 easy.
Turret-first Heimer has found his true calling. If you take garrison, go turrets first and rush out a Zhonya's Hourglass you've got a recipe for holding points solo in all but the direst of situations. The only way to cap a point against him 1v1, or even 2v1 is to get a monstrous minion wave built up with promote, or counter-garrison his turret so it doesn't murder you and kill him. Also @ Tyler:
Couldn't 1v1 anyone on their team, but I didn't need to.
On September 25 2011 00:30 Flicky wrote: So has anyone else scored more than 2000 points in a game. I have no idea what a good score is or even if score is relevant.
If you get something like 1400+ pts you're doing pretty well, at least from the games that I've played so far. I'd say mid range is 1200-1400 pts.
On September 25 2011 02:46 BlackMagister wrote: What exactly is healing reduction? It affects spells that heal obviously but does it affect regeneration from items, lifesteal items and abilities?
All of the above - it used to not do that, but it was changed in a fairly recent patch.
casters all the way in this mode, seem to have the best luck with em
last game i was cass and i finished 19/3 forgot points but yes we indeed won (and yes i know kills dont really matter, but it helps getting ur items even faster obv.)
I actually have played vlad...and sadly he is really medicore.
he is quite slow and his moves do subpar. his pool isnt that great of an escape either.
i have messed everything with going ap to spell vamp and hybrid. He just cant bring a whole lot to the table. I am frusterated cause I love vlad...but he isnt the greatest pick on dominion. if you can kite your opponent then vlad does quite well (especially when i went spell vamp/ap) but if they have any slow like tryn then you are fucked.
Guess I am just going to stick with Renekton, lee sin or kennen considering their only real upkeep is their health
On September 25 2011 00:30 Flicky wrote: So has anyone else scored more than 2000 points in a game. I have no idea what a good score is or even if score is relevant.
If you get something like 1400+ pts you're doing pretty well, at least from the games that I've played so far. I'd say mid range is 1200-1400 pts.
Not quite 2000 pts huehue.
Score ranged are too volatile. If you absolutely stomp your opponents the game ends in 15 minutes and 1000-1100 is super high. If you draw things out as long as humanly possible by having even numbers of nodes you can get ridiculous scores.
they should find some way to normalize scores, the best score would be the highest score on your team while keeping your score as low as possible (faster game, lower score)
Got my first quadra-kill today. All credit goes to enemy team being dumb and rammus being completely overpowered. R+thornmail+whole team focuing you=huehuehue
On September 25 2011 00:30 Flicky wrote: So has anyone else scored more than 2000 points in a game. I have no idea what a good score is or even if score is relevant.
If you get something like 1400+ pts you're doing pretty well, at least from the games that I've played so far. I'd say mid range is 1200-1400 pts.
Not quite 2000 pts huehue.
Score ranged are too volatile. If you absolutely stomp your opponents the game ends in 15 minutes and 1000-1100 is super high. If you draw things out as long as humanly possible by having even numbers of nodes you can get ridiculous scores.
On September 25 2011 06:05 Chocolate wrote: Got my first quadra-kill today. All credit goes to enemy team being dumb and rammus being completely overpowered. R+thornmail+whole team focuing you=huehuehue
I know the feeling, I got a penta one game (using kogmaw) and a qudra the next (using urgot) Multikills seems much easier on this map.
On September 25 2011 06:19 RoieTRS wrote: Man you guys need to stop playing ad poppy... ap is objectively better because you dont need to farm
I'm not sure who you're responding to here but everyone pretty much gets the same gold in Dominion. If you are carrying hard, you can get 10-20% more than other people, enough for one more big item near the end of the game, but you generally never get anywhere near the differences you see in SR. So the build you decide to do should be based on having about equal gold as your opponents. I think AP/CDR Poppy is best on SR. For Dominion, it could be different.
if you play poppy in solo go ad because you can farm decently then carry lategame ap poppy is really hard to farm there is no reason to go ad in dominion, ap is objectively better than ad if farm is no issue
wow I feel like a dumbass just made a post no realizing thier was already one made. This map is extremely fun though after playing I refused to go back to Summoners Rift and Twisted Treeline.What champs have you guys been having success with during beta testing?
Had a high carry game and the gold earned was around 1k difference between me and the people low on kills and high on deaths. I can see getting high also if you push creep to cap nodes. Got a good amount of gold this way with Annie. Not a lot tho.
On September 25 2011 15:29 Nachielous wrote: wow I feel like a dumbass just made a post no realizing thier was already one made. This map is extremely fun though after playing I refused to go back to Summoners Rift and Twisted Treeline.What champs have you guys been having success with during beta testing?
I like to play the defensive push with minion style on the map. Whenever I can I fight at my tower or let my minions get some capture time on a tower and stay back. Have had success 1 game with Ori, Veigar, Annie. Done Heimer a few times, he is great at kiting with ice turrets around towers.
I think Kogmaw is great on Dominion. He can seige people guarding towers better than anybody else and the close confines of the map lends well to his ult in general.
the champs I had most success with so far are: akali, wukong, riven. Wukong is sick good on this map, going trinity and hextech funblade. Everyone says that gunblade rush is good for akali on dominion, but I had far more success with sheen->rilays->lichbane/gunblade so far. You dont get THAT much more damage with gunblade than with rilays. I guess its good against sustained damage but if they have any kind of burst+ignite then rilays is still stronger.
-.- personally singed is really good. im like 5-0 with singed.
i like dominion in that it makes me feel super rich and its short, and you can come back... but sometimes i just feel its a clusterfuck and nothing is actually organized... maybe thats just caused its not been out enough for strats to develop...
sigh... the other day we had the enemy at 1HP and then we all suicided their spawn, they capture 4 pts, we dont get enough time after respawn to capture 2 / kill them and we lose... q.q
You know what I did for kicks and giggles? I picked Skarner. Waited till 6. Lured a Kat into ulting me at my tower, stinging her and dragging her ass around while the tower killed her.
Rammus and GP every game.... Personally even though ulting to stop a tower cap is nice and his MS is great, I think GP is overrated on Dominion. Rammus on the other hand with Ghost and Mobilities is ridiculous. Also can easily stop a 3 man cap attempt on his own.
On September 26 2011 01:15 gostunv wrote: I think Kogmaw is great on Dominion. He can seige people guarding towers better than anybody else and the close confines of the map lends well to his ult in general.
Wow I completely forgot about Kog'Maw to be honest. So Im guessing Ap Kogmaw is going to be ridiculously good on this map..Aww man I cant wait to test it again :D
On September 26 2011 01:15 gostunv wrote: I think Kogmaw is great on Dominion. He can seige people guarding towers better than anybody else and the close confines of the map lends well to his ult in general.
Wow I completely forgot about Kog'Maw to be honest. So Im guessing Ap Kogmaw is going to be ridiculously good on this map..Aww man I cant wait to test it again :D
I dunno if AP Kog will be that great. Theres no blue buff to hog to feed your artillery spam.
Pull people into your tower easier because of smaller minion waves makes him a good defender.
The ability to pull opponents out of their towers makes him great when sieging a tower with an ally. You push up your minions then have your ally start taking the point forcing your opponent to either come close enough to grab or concede the point entirely.
Not to mention that his high movement speed makes him killer in general for getting from place to place quickly.
Did anyone else get bored of this extremely fast? I find that with such little farming it has a lot less depth to it. Plus the balance is sort of a joke. Feels like twisted treeline v2.0
On September 26 2011 15:22 Cytokinesis wrote: Did anyone else get bored of this extremely fast? I find that with such little farming it has a lot less depth to it. Plus the balance is sort of a joke. Feels like twisted treeline v2.0
Farming in dominion is actually a huge deal given that every wave is 120 gold and you can clear them in .5 seconds + its a nonrenewable resource because creeps evaporate at towers and games rarely stretch long enough for the gold tick to provide you with a full set of items. I've been a good 2k gold ahead of the other guy in the 1v1 bot scenario in many instances and its always quite helpful.
Rammus takes the cake at Dominion . Build tank go top take garision sit there whole game . Get killed by 3+ enemy champs ? No probs power ball back ASAp and chill there .
Also warmogs into cap Heimer is pain in ass to remove from turret .
Akali talon etc etc pwn if teams get tunel vission and chase eatch other in jungle instead of caping towers .
The one thing I really like about dominion is that there are so many "high-tier" champions and viable strats that every game can be really different. This seems to be made possible because laning is de-emphasized so lane-monster champions with huge sustain are still good, but it lets some non-sustain champions fight back.
Just played the first game, I just somehow managed to win a game despite having the biggest supermoron team ever, I couldn't ever have won that game on SR, that's a pretty strong point about this map right now.
It's also much easier to come back. I get frustrated when a couple people on my team (may or may not be me >.>) derp early on and we get behind by 3-5 kills, which lets the enemy team snowball and makes it impossible to catch up, even if we have a better comp or play better later on. It's one of the reasons Cait is so strong on SR, her early game lets you dominate and then take over from there.
Comebacks in DM are much easier and losing for a few minutes isn't game ending like it is in SR. If you stay behind for 4 minutes in SR, you might as well gg, but it's not unseen to come back from a 100-30 deficit in DM. That hope of return makes DM much less frustrating for me.
i have really changed my opinion on dominion actually. At first I thought it was stupid and simple but as soon as i started to slightly tryhard it became much more interesting.
My first thought was "wow i bet i could just win all these games no problem" but it is easier said than done.
the thing the guy above me said about comebacks is also true and great. I really hope that they come out with a similar mechanic in a SR-like map so that comebacks can be possible with good coordination. Maybe this will be more feasible when 5v5's with good teamwork are more common.
Comebacks are already possible on SR with good coordination. It just takes a 45+ minute game for it to happen.
The reason why comebacks are much more common on Dominion is because everyone is on nearly level ground the whole game in terms of gold/experience, so you don't need things like towers or Baron buff to turn things around.
I wouldn't call Dominion "stupid and simple", but it's twitch gameplay first and foremost.
Comebacks are already possible on SR with good coordination. It just takes a 45+ minute game for it to happen.
And that's what honestly gives me a headache about SR. "Guys, we can get back from this if we play better than them consistently for the next half hour!". Uh, that's almost just not worth it. I mean, they feel epic, but you have about a 30/70 chance of coming back or just continuing to be behind and dragging out your loss.
Comebacks are already possible on SR with good coordination. It just takes a 45+ minute game for it to happen.
And that's what honestly gives me a headache about SR. "Guys, we can get back from this if we play better than them consistently for the next half hour!". Uh, that's almost just not worth it. I mean, they feel epic, but you have about a 50/50 chance of coming back or just continuing to be behind and dragging out your loss.
um if it is a 50% chance of a comeback how is it a comeback?
I know i have enjoyed dominion, it fun and fast paced. Having a group of friends who KNOW WHAT THEY ARE DOING makes it worth while. Its to much playing my shaco build~
Easy strats too;; 4 rush top (1 stops closets tower) 1 bot if take windmill hold all 3. I know Ive been having a blast have map control with shaco on here and stopping people from advancing on windmill holding them off with jitbs everywhere.
I will say though I want to see how future balance is going to be involved now. probably focus SR balance since that where the high elo/pros play at ((for now)). I know right now melee assassin based are just great on dominion;; so far I have to say Xin,Mundo,udyr,rammus,pant,yi, trundle are powerful. Teemo mushrooms for tower def and buff placements and eve is great for freeroam. (twitch...not so much)
Comebacks are already possible on SR with good coordination. It just takes a 45+ minute game for it to happen.
And that's what honestly gives me a headache about SR. "Guys, we can get back from this if we play better than them consistently for the next half hour!". Uh, that's almost just not worth it. I mean, they feel epic, but you have about a 50/50 chance of coming back or just continuing to be behind and dragging out your loss.
um if it is a 50% chance of a comeback how is it a comeback?
Bah, meant to write 30/70, re-reading fail on my part.
As in, if we're behind early game coming out of laning (behind in towers, down kills, etc), you have a very low chance of coming back late game. 30% of the time, you make an epic comeback with teamwork, split pushing, and effective jungle/dragon/baron. 70% of the time, you just stay behind because they just push their advantage and there's no coming back. So effectively you stay in the game for a very small chance at victory, to the point that some games it's easier to surrender at 20 than stay in an hour long game where you just get shit on.
On September 27 2011 01:40 Seuss wrote:The reason why comebacks are much more common on Dominion is because everyone is on nearly level ground the whole game in terms of gold/experience, so you don't need things like towers or Baron buff to turn things around..
No, the reason comebacks are more common on dominion is that literally nothing is stopping you from getting a comeback except player skill. there's so much gold and experience that kills basically don't matter in the long run. It takes 45 minutes for everything to even out on SR but even then if you have all your towers its pretty much impossible to lose.
On September 27 2011 01:40 Seuss wrote:The reason why comebacks are much more common on Dominion is because everyone is on nearly level ground the whole game in terms of gold/experience, so you don't need things like towers or Baron buff to turn things around..
No, the reason comebacks are more common on dominion is that literally nothing is stopping you from getting a comeback except player skill. there's so much gold and experience that kills basically don't matter in the long run. It takes 45 minutes for everything to even out on SR but even then if you have all your towers its pretty much impossible to lose.
So except for the chars that are more or less "OP" (= exceptionally strong) like Akali, Jax, Rammus, GP I'm really thinking that old fellow (BR)Olaf may have his come back in Dominion since he is not a common nor top tier pick on SR.
Starting with Boots, Vamp Scepter and Ruby Crystal and defensive Runes, you are well prepared for lvl 3 skirmisches at top cap point.
Then just complete Warmogs -> Mercs -> Atma's -> Forzen Mallet -> more defense and hit them with close to 300 AD (no BF sword item necessary) and lifesteal like a boss.
€dit: btw, believe it or not - E not costing mana anymore is just super strong as you will get off up to 10 E's in a drawn out fight.
On September 27 2011 09:49 little fancy wrote: So except for the chars that are more or less "OP" (= exceptionally strong) like Akali, Jax, Rammus, GP I'm really thinking that old fellow (BR)Olaf may have his come back in Dominion since he is not a common nor top tier pick on SR.
Starting with Boots, Vamp Scepter and Ruby Crystal and defensive Runes, you are well prepared for lvl 3 skirmisches at top cap point.
Then just complete Warmogs -> Mercs -> Atma's -> Forzen Mallet -> more defense and hit them with close to 300 AD (no BF sword item necessary) and lifesteal like a boss.
€dit: btw, believe it or not - E not costing mana anymore is just super strong as you will get off up to 10 E's in a drawn out fight.
Using E's in the shit storm that teamfights are on dominion is kind of risky. I'm not sure i would spam it unless i was 6/6 items or close to it.
First game was a comeback from 271-64 to ending at 0-28. Got a nice ace with the storm shied buff, capped all 5, then did a nice delaying action that kept them at 1 point till around 100 points, they got 3 after getting a lucky 4-kill since our ryze at 300 hp stole the storm buff @_@;
Ended 3-1 with all 5 of the champs at both teams at top :3
Im finding blitz is hilarious on this map, his E speed just lets him be anywhere to either stealcap or get in on unfair fights. Im utterly clueless on how to properly build him however.
I find myself getting this one item that gives mana regen and like 75 AP and CDR on Karthus on this map...forget the name Some book? Anyone building him diff then they do in normal? I have been doing Sorc boots right away into death cap then that book item a HP AP item like rylias or RoA any maybe a zohnyas.
Im thinking the CDR is good on this map so he can global ult for cap prevention plus since this map is more prone for lots of fights you get a lot of kills you weren't counting on or assists just because someone is always fighting so it helps a lot. Plus I love the ability to dance around the tower then die right on it and Death Defiled is "Lol im dead Still cant cap"
Skarner can ult people off towers so easily in Dominion. I just rush random items especially cdr and hide on/near a speed buff, run out and stop caps. Get health packs so fast, never go back, farm minions all day. Control the center and any two points you choose.
On September 27 2011 13:34 Psyonic_Reaver wrote: TEAM TRAP ES OP HUEHUEHUE
Teemo + Shaco = Indestructable. Throw in Vayne and she can just roll around abusing the traps to maximum potential, it's just not even fair to play against.
Played a couple of hours on Dominion so far. Loving the style and the pace. Lot more interesting than SR or TT IMO.
I noticed though that communication is absolutely vital on this map. We were down 20 to 120 towards the later stages of the game, due to the fact that our team was not communicating very well. then something just clicked, (it was solo random que, normals). We started coordinating tower captures, defense and avoiding large teamfights.
Score went down to 2 to 5. and we won a few minutes later. by 2 freaking points. Nailbiting. SO freaking nailbiting.
lol is so broken right now....ya just pick a tanky dps and ull win dominion no problem....lol maybe ima hater but shits broken as a mofo....word. switching to dota 2(cause better design staff )
On September 27 2011 18:22 stoneDrest wrote: lol is so broken right now....ya just pick a tanky dps and ull win dominion no problem....lol maybe ima hater but shits broken as a mofo....word. switching to dota 2(cause better design staff )
On September 27 2011 18:22 stoneDrest wrote: lol is so broken right now....ya just pick a tanky dps and ull win dominion no problem....lol maybe ima hater but shits broken as a mofo....word. switching to dota 2(cause better design staff )
you wont win with only tanky dps
No but with 3 of them and 2 APs with a lot of utility (Orianna hear me ?) you will.
Poppy is so good on this map... so many walls to crash them into, and she's extremely mobile with level 5 paragon. Not to mention she makes diving points incredibly easy, either 1v1 or with her team's backup.
I love it when melee dps people think they can solo 1v1 me when im standing on the tower. Oops I built tanky and you no way in hell can you out dps me and the tower and even if you do kill me YOUR STILL GOING TO DIE muhaahahah.
I've been playing a different champ for every game of dominion. It's really fun when I do poorly and my teammates rage at me. Why would anyone rage in dominion? I don't understand. It's like raging while losing at Candy Land.
On September 28 2011 01:19 freelander wrote: I didn't expect it, but Lux is good on this map. You get to lvl 16 really fast, and that's where the lazer's CD goes down drastically.
You can disrupt capturing really well, and at 2 nodes at the same time.
my build was SuperDRing, sorc boots, morello's tome, dcap, lichbane
lux is real good to have in the right setup. First I thought she might be a good defender but she really shines at skirmishing, poking and disrupting.
Ive been playing alot of dominion these past few days, i hated it at first to be honest. It seemed really random and only a few of the heroes were actually useful to use. but now its really growing on me as i play it more. Some of the games get to be really exciting
Edit: I really like using master yi for dominion.
Kogmaw seems decent as well, i just bought him recently though so im not too sure,. I notice people banned him in draft quite a few times though
Is it just me or have people completely forgotten the concept that fighting at your own turret is better then fighting just out of range of it? I swear on dominion people like to defend the node by fighting a quarter of the lane down from turrets instead of at then where they have....you know a turret pew pewing people.
On September 28 2011 14:29 Slaughter wrote: Is it just me or have people completely forgotten the concept that fighting at your own turret is better then fighting just out of range of it? I swear on dominion people like to defend the node by fighting a quarter of the lane down from turrets instead of at then where they have....you know a turret pew pewing people.
You'd think would learn by now that fighting next to your tower = good.
Also people don't understand that defending 3bases is better than goin for 4. It's impossible to hold that 4th base thats literally at the bottom of their spawn ramp and is much better to hold your 2 closest bases and holding the top spawn. You don't lose any points if you have more bases than your opponent does, I won my last game when we had 1pt left on our nexus with just 3 bases.
Anyway, yeah, I can't play solo queue Dominion more than a few times in a row, because I lose faith in humanity. People seem to just use Dominion as an excuse to chase people down and not pay attention to objectives. I actually like winning, people :\
Last game I played we were pretty much fucked because no one would defend, just chase to kill because kills are so worth a lot. But then it magically worked and we managed to Ace them and take all 5 bases at the last moment lol.
On September 29 2011 01:16 Slaughter wrote: Last game I played we were pretty much fucked because no one would defend, just chase to kill because kills are so worth a lot. But then it magically worked and we managed to Ace them and take all 5 bases at the last moment lol.
See, that works... if you have the stronger fight. If you build your team to be duelists/team fighters, you can fight a lot and then cap everything.
However, a lot of people hear that X or Y champ is OP in Dominion and play them. However, these champs are usually strong because of their mobility and/or defensiveness, which fits Dominion well. Then they try to chase and kill with, say, TF, or Heimer, or Rammus and end up dying and losing the node.
People need to learn to play to the champion's strengths, not just mindlessly fight because it's exciting.
1- Increase the amount of the heal pads on the map, but make them a channel pick up so that they actually become a point of contention. As is they just kinda seem thrown in without really being useful as either regen or a point of conflict
2- The big one- make capturing your opponents node worth MUCH more health loss. As is there is no reason to ever cap the opponents node when you can just hold 3 and win. There needs to be an adequate trade off to incentivize capturing and HOLDING enemy nodes.
I think the heal nodes would work well if they were "get healed while standing on this" pads. Not enough healing where you could stand on it and be invincible, but enough that you could run to one, heal up, and re-engage efficiently. It would add a bit of immobility/mobility struggle to the game. Do I stand on the pad to heal, or run to defend? Do I stand on our node and ward off this attack, or do I hop over to the pad and heal, hoping they don't take the tower down in the meantime?
Yeah, dominions fun and all but until people get a grasp of strategy in the mode I only enjoy playing one or two games of it. It's such a cluster fuck with everyone just running to undefended capture points and trying to increase their score.
I feel as though a good strat would be to have 2 top, 2 bot, and one roaming to make sure they don't ninja the mid tower. (assuming you have 3 points)
On September 29 2011 01:23 Two_DoWn wrote: Changes I would make to dominion-
1- Increase the amount of the heal pads on the map, but make them a channel pick up so that they actually become a point of contention. As is they just kinda seem thrown in without really being useful as either regen or a point of conflict
2- The big one- make capturing your opponents node worth MUCH more health loss. As is there is no reason to ever cap the opponents node when you can just hold 3 and win. There needs to be an adequate trade off to incentivize capturing and HOLDING enemy nodes.
I think that's what the quests are supposed to do. I haven't seen a single game be forced into a 3-2 stalemate yet, which is what you're suggesting to prevent. You rarely expect to hold them for long, because you're going to be swamped in 3+ of their team at full health very soon, and if you just get wiped, then you find yourself in a situation much like on SR where if you push their mid turret too hard and then get wiped/chased off at low health and they pick up baron because you can't contest it.
On September 28 2011 14:29 Slaughter wrote: Is it just me or have people completely forgotten the concept that fighting at your own turret is better then fighting just out of range of it? I swear on dominion people like to defend the node by fighting a quarter of the lane down from turrets instead of at then where they have....you know a turret pew pewing people.
You'd think would learn by now that fighting next to your tower = good.
Also people don't understand that defending 3bases is better than goin for 4. It's impossible to hold that 4th base thats literally at the bottom of their spawn ramp and is much better to hold your 2 closest bases and holding the top spawn. You don't lose any points if you have more bases than your opponent does, I won my last game when we had 1pt left on our nexus with just 3 bases.
If they push any of the 3 points with 4 champs you are screwed (assuming you have 2 champs top/bot and 1 in mid). I've found it's easier to just MMA them into submission by backdooring any point with no one on it or pushing 2-4 when they are trying to spread their defense. You end up with so many times where the enemy team tries to push 3-4 bottom when they are on 2 points and rather than defend it's easier to just take their mid, especially since you can neutralize in the time it takes most champs to walk from spawn to the point.
Of course that's just solo queue, with 2 organised teams with CVs the strategies would be more complex.
I think something that a lot of people don't understand or comprehend is the idea of abandoning points. Like ak1knight said, if they push a point with 4+ people and you don't match their numbers, it's probably gone.
If you can effectively fall back and utilize a ranged poke to keep them from capping quickly, it's much more effective than fighting, dying, and losing the point. You don't need to full out retreat, but if you can keep them delayed at one point, your team is free to go get the rest. This is the true strength of long range characters or people with a super annoying poke like Maokai. Anyone with a long range AoE (Lux, Ezreal, Gangplank), will delay a team at a single node long enough that it doesn't actually matter once they lose it.
Yea its still new I think people will generally pick up on basic strats and what works and doesn't. I mean if they zerg a point while leaving their other 2 completely undefended then go take another point while your team stalls/wastes time.
I like defending a point vs 3-4 ppl as Karthus because I generally can waste a lot of their time while killing or taking a large chunk out of their HP so 1 team member can mop up. Garrison is awesome.
On September 28 2011 23:10 Requizen wrote: FIGHT ON THE FLAG, NOT THE ROADS!
/WoW rant
Anyway, yeah, I can't play solo queue Dominion more than a few times in a row, because I lose faith in humanity. People seem to just use Dominion as an excuse to chase people down and not pay attention to objectives. I actually like winning, people :\
Dominion can only be played "legit" with a full house.
Pubs are retarded/suck/selfish. They don't f*cking listen to other people. And that pretty much includes everyone, even me. So the best thing to do is to gather 2 - 4 friends, skype/vent/some kind of voice chat with them and play Dominion.
I really like Dominion. Yes odds are you will have awful teammates most of the time but the games tend to be so short I don't really mind; also, the nature of the game makes it possible to have epic comebacks if your bad team finds a good rhythm.
I find myself so busy lately that I can't commit to a potentially hour long summoner's rift. Dominion is great for this; my longest game was just under 30 minutes and the shortest was 11. I also enjoy not having to agonize about what champ I want to play because I know if I'm torn between 2 I'll be in a new game pretty quickly.
My favorite champs so far: Lee Sin -Start boots and pickaxe and rush Hextech Gunblade -Frozen mallet next and then atmas or some MR next (usually wits end/hexdrinker/both) -game should be over by now, win or lose I have A LOT of fun with this build -I find rushing the gunblade gives me enough damage to 1v1 and 1v2 very safely; triple kills are not too much trouble if your enemies come into a fight already low. -If you get some early kills and build the gunblade fast enough there is a period of time where you simply out damage and out lifesteal/spellvamp anyone. Going mallet next will give the health to still fight safely once their items start kicking in.
Swain -start cata, try to afford wand and boots next and then RoA asap -after that its basically standard AP build; rylai's then abyssal/zonya's, spellhat -the new item that replaced banshees is also good. -I find his sustain is really nice and his ult makes it easy to hold towers but it can be rough if you get off to a bad start but I find he still ends up quite strong, may need QSS for ignites though.
Ryze - Start tear/boots then cata into RoA. -next depends on enemy team, if AD go frozen heart, if AP go new banshees item, if both I like to get glacial shroud and then build the new item, i think its odin's something or other. -Next would be void staff and then finally archangels -Ryze is a lot of fun, he has mana problems early but once you have that first cata you should be good. -I find he works well because he can 1v1 and 1v2 well; there are not many times when you get in true teams fight where you get insta popped. His sustained damage, natural tankiness, and reliable CC make him very hard to kill, unless they have silence then things are hard.
Heroes I haven't played but seem great on this map: Shaco- backdoor caps all day Maoki- you will never take a tower from him Rammus- can be anywhere to defend almost instantly Kassadin- same as rammus, and dat silence Yi- move real fast boots Karthas- global ult Ashe- that arrow stops caps so easy, especially because people tend to stack up and channel
I can only play Amumu in Dominion. Odin's veil+ignite+all of his abilities= NO ONE EXPECTS SUPER BURST TANKY AMUMU. Now to incorporate Deathfire grasp in my build. I want to get good at Mundo, but he gets destroyed later on. Any tips?
Random queue is pretty frustrating to play, as a rule. With a completely new game format, players will step up the level of retard, because they don't know where to go and you're a lot less safe in Dominion anyway.
Tanky DPS seem to dominate this format as well. Winning team seems to always have more burly melee dudes on average than the losers (I play mostly ranged/support, so this is unfortunate). Some casters like Ryze and Fiddle obviously do really well though.
There should be ranked. Not because it's balanced yet but because it might promote slightly less stupid play.
On September 28 2011 14:29 Slaughter wrote: Is it just me or have people completely forgotten the concept that fighting at your own turret is better then fighting just out of range of it? I swear on dominion people like to defend the node by fighting a quarter of the lane down from turrets instead of at then where they have....you know a turret pew pewing people.
Turrets aren't nearly as scary in Dominion though. It's beneficial to fight there, but you cant indefinitely hold a tower 2v1 in most scenarios like SR. I've made the classic mistake of getting chased, running through and past a tower, and having the chaser just completely ignore the tower damage and kill me. Most characters have some kind of weird dance they need to do around the tower in order to stay in range AND have the tower actually matter.
Oddly enough, stalling is the most effective tactic I've discovered so far. Not actually stopping the other team from capping something, but just being enough of a dick that capping a tower takes longer than it should. Teemo is great for this.
My first game of dominion I tried to play my regular Nasus build/style (tank) and got absolutely rolled. I couldn't build up Q enough to be threatening for damage, and still died instantly even in full tank gear, because he has no defensive abilities. So I decided to swap to dps nasus and started rolling faces, there are a number of key reasons nasus makes a great dps hero in dominion. - spirit fire armour reduction, already nerfed armour from dominion buff and the aversion for anyone to get any defensive items means you can get people down to the critical 0-20% reduction range where every point removed is a massive damage bonuses - Wither almost entirely disables physical damage characters for 5 seconds, while also preventing them from running away. - 20% lifesteal stacked with the dominion only sanguine blade and pure damage items means heroes not speced pure damage can't out-damage your heals unless you get disabled - Siphon strike never gets farmed very high compared to a normal game, but the burst of hitting it right after a swing to reset the swing timer can be crazy, especially considering that all comes back as health from the stacked lifesteal.
The weakness is as always with a dps nasus build, stuns/disables, but those dominate absolutely everyone in dominion anyways.
my current item build after 7 or so games: Brutalizer, the armour reduction makes you an absolute beast early game, just make sure to pick up wither/exhaust/ghost so you can stay on enemies until you go back for boots. the 5 speed out of combat boots, these let you hop around the middle through the speed-pads to be anywhere you're needed Sanguine, the life steal stacks well with your own, making it hard to kill you without disables Infinity, damage! phantom, more move speed is never bad on this map, plus the massive crit chance to burst people down last item as whatever fits/you have money for, black cleaver can be good, tiamat's is surprisingly good, as people seem to love stacking up on this map, trinity force can do wonders if you have the money for it.
Though I'm sure you could simply play a different character and do much better. I don't see how Nasus is worth using over any other tanky dps. Dominion is certainly fun, but the it's kind of disheartening to see your team comp is made of heroes that don't do well in Dominion vs the godly Dominion heroes like Jax, Rammus, Akali, GP, etc.
I've been playing dominion lately with my girlfriend and her friends since the games are much shorter and easier to squeeze into our schedules, and I'm having an incredibly difficult time comprehending how to play it properly. We play pretty decently when we play on SR against other people our level, but today we lost 3/4 games on dominion today, and the only reason we won the last one is because the other team was just really bad, and not particularly because we played well. Just reading the past two pages in this thread kinda highlighted all the things that we are doing wrong though (focusing too much on killing and not taking towers, trying to pick up a fourth tower too much, etc.)
My question is: how hard it would be for you and how likely it is that dominion is reworked into 3+ team map? If you not DESTROYING but BUILDING up something (so you not rob points but gather them, which is the same in 1v1, but not quite in 1v1v1...), it could be funny. I dont know it, because i cant test it, do you think in something like this, or its totally out of question?
On September 29 2011 13:48 BlackMagister wrote: Though I'm sure you could simply play a different character and do much better. I don't see how Nasus is worth using over any other tanky dps. Dominion is certainly fun, but the it's kind of disheartening to see your team comp is made of heroes that don't do well in Dominion vs the godly Dominion heroes like Jax, Rammus, Akali, GP, etc.
Yea seriously Jax/Ram/Ak/GP are freaking sweeet on this map. Problem is that people see that then just start to go for kills instead of towers because they know they can wtfrape people 1v1.
I play Karthus on this map and while he is an awesome defender he sucks at capturing because of those awesome duelists running around. This presents a problem when your team is being silly and not capturing and you have to roam a bit as a not really mobile guy who can get stomped by bursts like this if caught alone off a turret. I'm glad this guide was posted so people will stop trying to tell me how horrible karthus is on dominion.
Shaco with blessing, mobility boots, and phantom dancer is pretty amazing. You just run around capping points that people aren't near and using boxes/whatnot to play defense 1v3 for a while to distract them from useful points.
On September 29 2011 14:07 shinarit wrote: My question is: how hard it would be for you and how likely it is that dominion is reworked into 3+ team map? If you not DESTROYING but BUILDING up something (so you not rob points but gather them, which is the same in 1v1, but not quite in 1v1v1...), it could be funny. I dont know it, because i cant test it, do you think in something like this, or its totally out of question?
I hope some rioters still read this :C
Riot already said that they will not implement a 3+ team scenario, since it becomes about social skill engineering temporary alliances to screw over one team instead of actual game skill. BGH is an excellent example of this, you always see people teaming up and others making comebacks after almost being eliminated by saying, "Please let me watch." With only two teams that kind of politicking will never happen.
I've been having pretty good success with AP Kog. Hits so hard you can knock anyone off point pretty quickly, and people capping points means you get a lot of freebie living artilleries off. And I mean a looot. Has enough burst to deal with gap closers better than AD Kog, although most of my deaths are around the middle trying to get to the next point.
On September 29 2011 14:07 shinarit wrote: My question is: how hard it would be for you and how likely it is that dominion is reworked into 3+ team map? If you not DESTROYING but BUILDING up something (so you not rob points but gather them, which is the same in 1v1, but not quite in 1v1v1...), it could be funny. I dont know it, because i cant test it, do you think in something like this, or its totally out of question?
I hope some rioters still read this :C
Riot already said that they will not implement a 3+ team scenario, since it becomes about social skill engineering temporary alliances to screw over one team instead of actual game skill. BGH is an excellent example of this, you always see people teaming up and others making comebacks after almost being eliminated by saying, "Please let me watch." With only two teams that kind of politicking will never happen.
I dont see how can you make that when you are not destroying the other 2 teams, but building your own stuff up. Whats in it for you to team up? Nothing, you wont win faster or easier, because you fight for the same resources.
On September 29 2011 14:07 shinarit wrote: My question is: how hard it would be for you and how likely it is that dominion is reworked into 3+ team map? If you not DESTROYING but BUILDING up something (so you not rob points but gather them, which is the same in 1v1, but not quite in 1v1v1...), it could be funny. I dont know it, because i cant test it, do you think in something like this, or its totally out of question?
I hope some rioters still read this :C
Riot already said that they will not implement a 3+ team scenario, since it becomes about social skill engineering temporary alliances to screw over one team instead of actual game skill. BGH is an excellent example of this, you always see people teaming up and others making comebacks after almost being eliminated by saying, "Please let me watch." With only two teams that kind of politicking will never happen.
I dont see how can you make that when you are not destroying the other 2 teams, but building your own stuff up. Whats in it for you to team up? Nothing, you wont win faster or easier, because you fight for the same resources.
But if you are competing at all, there is a chance to hinder the other teams. That means whoever gets ahead will be targeted by the two other teams together. There really is no way to prevent it save isolating all three teams from each other.
For example, if you got points for holding captures, both losing teams would gang up on the winning teams capture points.
Yes, thats true, but in what way is that hurting the competition? I mean, its not dependant on personal diplomacy skill, both team has a clear reason to attack the one in lead. But i guess you are right, still too much diplomacy involved compared to 1v1.
On September 30 2011 03:21 Offhand wrote: Went into normal queue, huge mistake. Rammus, akali, xin vs rammus, akali, xin. There was one Yi, Alistar, and a Shaco.
Is there any evidence that tanky DPS aren't the only thing you should be playing in dominion?
Akali is tanky dps? :p. I guess stealth mode is pretty tanky >.>
I've been playing Janna. I like her speed and general harassment with the tornado and ultimate. She doesn't seem as fragile because I rarely get attacked by more than a couple of people at a time. Her w skill is also great for stopping injured opponents from running away. Anyone else trying Janna?
There are a few other good heroes for Dominion that aren't tanky DPS though it's mostly because they're good vs tanky DPS or abuse something about Dominion. Ryze is good vs melee so he works in Dominion. Zilean is workable as a defender or a capture but I think he's just a worse version of Rammus. Vayne works. Kayle can work too although in solo Q it's difficult to communicate with teammates so I end up using her ultimate on herself to dive towers. Karthus and Heimer are the best defenders, Heimer with hourglass is especially annoying.
On September 30 2011 03:21 Offhand wrote: Went into normal queue, huge mistake. Rammus, akali, xin vs rammus, akali, xin. There was one Yi, Alistar, and a Shaco.
Is there any evidence that tanky DPS aren't the only thing you should be playing in dominion?
Akali is tanky dps? :p. I guess stealth mode is pretty tanky >.>
I didn't claim everything I listed was tanky dps. The game is absolutely zero fun when it's just melee vs melee though. If I wanted that, I'd play a fighting game.
On September 30 2011 05:33 BlackMagister wrote: There are a few other good heroes for Dominion that aren't tanky DPS though it's mostly because they're good vs tanky DPS or abuse something about Dominion. Ryze is good vs melee so he works in Dominion. Zilean is workable as a defender or a capture but I think he's just a worse version of Rammus. Vayne works. Kayle can work too although in solo Q it's difficult to communicate with teammates so I end up using her ultimate on herself to dive towers. Karthus and Heimer are the best defenders, Heimer with hourglass is especially annoying.
Yes, and I've played several of these. So we've now expanded the list of good Dominion characters to be tanky dps and anti-tanky dps, fun.
On September 29 2011 16:51 zer0das wrote: I've been having pretty good success with AP Kog. Hits so hard you can knock anyone off point pretty quickly, and people capping points means you get a lot of freebie living artilleries off. And I mean a looot. Has enough burst to deal with gap closers better than AD Kog, although most of my deaths are around the middle trying to get to the next point.
Kog is one of my favorite champs and I actually think he's really good on Dominion. If you bring someone along to peel people off of you Kog can siege points really well. And his damage is just crazy whether you build him AD or AP.
On September 30 2011 07:03 Arthemesia wrote: Shaco is so fun on this map too some hybrid ap/ad is really strong. People love running into shaco boxes you can get some really nice baits and jukes.
This map is made for AP Shaco. On the other maps people don't really need to go into your boxes, but on this map, with all of it's action and narrow paths, no box goes un-triggered. If I know my gf is going to be playing Shaco, I make sure to pick or ban Yorick. He's really the only common pick who deals with him. I feel like a ranged carry with oracle would work too to counter boxes.
If I play AP Shaco and they grab Oracle's or Yorick I just start making nests in bushes along common routes. Anything that leads top is usually a good idea.
It's pretty easy from there to attack a nearby point and lead the inevitable chase back into your nest.
On September 30 2011 08:13 Seuss wrote: If I play AP Shaco and they grab Oracle's or Yorick I just start making nests in bushes along common routes. Anything that leads top is usually a good idea.
It's pretty easy from there to attack a nearby point and lead the inevitable chase back into your nest.
Good points, I'll keep that in mind.
I'm still trying to discover the role of a ranged carry on this map. Vayne is fine because of her Condemn. Ezreal and Kog'maw are also fine because of their range. Anyone know if the rest of the ranged carries are better left unpicked? I can't seem to find a good use for them that can't be done better by other picks.
On September 29 2011 20:31 shinarit wrote: Yes, thats true, but in what way is that hurting the competition? I mean, its not dependant on personal diplomacy skill, both team has a clear reason to attack the one in lead. But i guess you are right, still too much diplomacy involved compared to 1v1.
Gang up to shit on one team and then finish it out as a 1v1. It's what happens in every game with anything above 2 teams. It's really unpleasant to play since 1 team always get fucked over right out of the gate and has no chance to do anything outnumbered 2:1.
It's not a case of 2 teams temporarily going after 1 who is ahead because that's not what happens.
On September 30 2011 08:13 Seuss wrote: If I play AP Shaco and they grab Oracle's or Yorick I just start making nests in bushes along common routes. Anything that leads top is usually a good idea.
It's pretty easy from there to attack a nearby point and lead the inevitable chase back into your nest.
Good points, I'll keep that in mind.
I'm still trying to discover the role of a ranged carry on this map. Vayne is fine because of her Condemn. Ezreal and Kog'maw are also fine because of their range. Anyone know if the rest of the ranged carries are better left unpicked? I can't seem to find a good use for them that can't be done better by other picks.
ezreal is soooooo good on dominion. Like seriously go full offense masteries, full ad runes and buy a sheen at the start. Your Q will hit ppl for half their health at lvl 3 and will make the initial engagement at windmill a breeze. TheOddOne from TSM ranks ezreal as the best ad carry for dominion (http://www.solomid.net/guides.php?g=7194) but not sure how much weight that has since he mains jungle.
kog is my #1 pick. his auto attack range is the highest in the game and is a beastly defender when his ult gets leveled. At level 16 he can literally sit in the middle of the map, walk 5 feet in any direction and shell a control point.
oh man, played like 10 game in a row with akali yesterday, damnnnn, she really good at dominion i won like 9 out of the 10 game, easy mode, akali ownage
On September 30 2011 08:13 Seuss wrote: If I play AP Shaco and they grab Oracle's or Yorick I just start making nests in bushes along common routes. Anything that leads top is usually a good idea.
It's pretty easy from there to attack a nearby point and lead the inevitable chase back into your nest.
Good points, I'll keep that in mind.
I'm still trying to discover the role of a ranged carry on this map. Vayne is fine because of her Condemn. Ezreal and Kog'maw are also fine because of their range. Anyone know if the rest of the ranged carries are better left unpicked? I can't seem to find a good use for them that can't be done better by other picks.
tower sieging, makes it hard to keep your minions off the turret if you have a coordinated push
unless you are ezreal who is completely broken on this map, then you just kill everybody. Typical ezreal score is like #1 points 15-4 k/d.
I've been playing Ryze on dominion for a while and I think he's a very strong pick.
He starts off quite weak but by midgame with some armor and a decent root duration he does so well vs the melee duelers who are filling every game. Can kite/poke them for days. Last game I went 27/6 O_0
Ryze has been great in dominion but you have to really know the ins and outs of ryze to make it worth it, we had one ryze who couldn't kite get destroyed.
On September 29 2011 20:31 shinarit wrote: Yes, thats true, but in what way is that hurting the competition? I mean, its not dependant on personal diplomacy skill, both team has a clear reason to attack the one in lead. But i guess you are right, still too much diplomacy involved compared to 1v1.
Gang up to shit on one team and then finish it out as a 1v1. It's what happens in every game with anything above 2 teams. It's really unpleasant to play since 1 team always get fucked over right out of the gate and has no chance to do anything outnumbered 2:1.
It's not a case of 2 teams temporarily going after 1 who is ahead because that's not what happens.
But how can you destroy the 3rd team when your goal is not to destroy the other two? I understand that 2 teams will create alliance, but there's no goal to this alliance. You cant destroy the team, because you have to build your own stuff.
Most of the people that go bottom either can't last as long or can't push as hard as him. Pushing is underrated on Dominion imoimoimo. Also Revive Exhaust Moondo is great fun. (Give mundo cleaver ap ratio pls i will love you forever!)
Just for those who missed it, this is a x-post from General Discussion Thread on respawns in Dominion.
On September 30 2011 11:33 MoonBear wrote: Re Dominion: Ignoring Assists, I always end up negative. Kills only matter in Dominion in terms of momentum and tempo. For instance, it decides where you can pressure and how hard. Getting aced mid-late game lets you set up for a dramatic swing in nodes. Kills early game are more for money and setting up the 3-2 lockdown snowball. So long as you can maintain the node pressure and lock them down, it's not a terribly big deal. This is especially the case with the respawn mechanic on Dominion.
Respawns in Dominion work a little differently than SR. Apart from lower respawn timers, there's also a respawn window. For instance, let's say Galio dies first in a fight. His respawn is 25 sec. He also however opens a 7 sec window where anyone else who dies in the next 7 seconds will respawn with him together, cutting down their respawn timer or have a few seconds shaved off their respawn. Therefore, dying in groups is okay so long as you kill enough of the other team that they can't break your lockdown on nodes. So if you still have someone to defend top, you can all respawn and stop bot captures for example.
I love dominion. BROOOOO! It's something I can play with my friends of wildly differing skill levels and still have it be relatively even, and if you get a team of five as long as you tell them where to go you can win against any competence level.
On October 02 2011 10:56 Seeker wrote: I'm done. I'm so fucking done with this map. They seriously need to just BAN fucking retarded heroes that makes capturing turrets impossible. And there are fucking heroes out there u can't even kill 2v1
I'm so done with this fucking map. They need to balance it ..... And pubs don't listen to a damn word u say....
Gah....
EDIT: After having some time to cool off my head, I think I may have been going a bit extreme with what I said.
But I still stand by what I said, this game is too imbalanced.
That's why this game mode is only for premades - anything else is just too rageworthy cuz you can't carry in dominion.
I can attest that fiddle is preeeetty good on this. Once you have your core (sorc boots, RoA, hex. revolver), you can 1v1 pretty much everyone, and your ult makes people sob uncontrollably.
So how's the metagaming shaping up? Do we still get a 4/1 split with a 4v4 at windmill and then chaos? Or are people starting to stick to certain points to defend them?
On October 04 2011 10:58 DanielZKlein wrote: So how's the metagaming shaping up? Do we still get a 4/1 split with a 4v4 at windmill and then chaos? Or are people starting to stick to certain points to defend them?
Still solo bot, 1 mid, 3 top. Mid goes top after securing mid.
I'm thinking that you could sneak into enemy mid and take it when their mid runs top. Your own team comp needs to have a lot of AOE poke however to stop them from capping.
On October 04 2011 10:58 DanielZKlein wrote: So how's the metagaming shaping up? Do we still get a 4/1 split with a 4v4 at windmill and then chaos? Or are people starting to stick to certain points to defend them?
I postulated in the Guide thread that people hadn't picked up yet on the strips of fog of war at the spawn exits. Seems like if the enemy doesn't know where 3/5ths of your team is going at the start you could do some pretty tricky things to disrupt the OMG RUSH TOP meta.
is the standard dominion layout optimal for Yorick? I've been having some succes with it but I'm terrible with item builds, what else would be good for Yorick? loads of hp and armor pen?
With a really really fast guy (zilean or something fast) you can rush someone to their bot point and stop them from capping it. Not very practical unless you can stop the enemy from capping top with 2 long enough for your bot and mid cappers to get top.
On October 05 2011 01:27 NeoIllusions wrote: Yorick is a solid bot lane holder. A lot of sustainability. Just build him as you would on SR. Open Tear Boots. Manamune, SV, Trinity, FH.
Top tip: You can charge your tear while still at the fountain waiting for the gates to open!
On October 03 2011 10:21 bubO wrote: Jax makes me cry on this map xD
Yeah, jax is pretty stupid on it. More than Akali imo. There's items to counter akali. There's nothing against a 6min Gunblade who put him at 3k hp with tons of offensive capability. Ending up 1v3 is pretty common with him, and since most people play ad champions, he dodge way to much.
Still can't figure out what to build on Akali first, so much goodness to get. I did Mobil boots first a couple times, but I like having passive up for that first teamfight, so I've been going 1boots + 2 Tomes and then getting Revolver on my first trip back. Sheen first might be nice, though, so dunno lol.
Olaf build: 11/0/19 (cdr in both trees, armpen, w/e you want besides) armpen/ad in some combination (not mathed out yet) reds, quints, flat cdr blues, armor yellows Brutalizer You have up to 50 armor pen and 30% cdr. You flat out win any straight up fight with just about anyone and if the enemy team lines up you remove 2/3 of their hp. So strong. Best ranged poke. Go for force of atmogs next, and by then game should be over.
On October 05 2011 02:16 Requizen wrote: Still can't figure out what to build on Akali first, so much goodness to get. I did Mobil boots first a couple times, but I like having passive up for that first teamfight, so I've been going 1boots + 2 Tomes and then getting Revolver on my first trip back. Sheen first might be nice, though, so dunno lol.
Boots Tome Tome.
I've tried Revolver a few times but the map aura just rapes healing, so I don't think it's worth it. MS is too important on Dom.
On October 05 2011 02:16 Requizen wrote: Still can't figure out what to build on Akali first, so much goodness to get. I did Mobil boots first a couple times, but I like having passive up for that first teamfight, so I've been going 1boots + 2 Tomes and then getting Revolver on my first trip back. Sheen first might be nice, though, so dunno lol.
Ehh... if you rune properly you should have both passives at level 2-3 no?
On October 05 2011 02:16 Requizen wrote: Still can't figure out what to build on Akali first, so much goodness to get. I did Mobil boots first a couple times, but I like having passive up for that first teamfight, so I've been going 1boots + 2 Tomes and then getting Revolver on my first trip back. Sheen first might be nice, though, so dunno lol.
played tons of game with akali what always start up with 2 tomes 350g boots 2 Hpotion then i build up the revolver, then sheen, then i complete hextec gunblade, i like to take the tenacity boots then complete lichbane, rylays and then and armor item, could be hourglass or yesterday i tryed thornmail bot wasnt very worth it i think but my core is hexteck first, boots, lichbane, rylai staff, ready to own tons of people
Yeah, Starting boots + 2 Tomes > Revolver seems best. I like Gunblade before Sheen, though, but I haven't had a chance to try em both enough. I like mobility boots because I play Designated Capper a lot, so I need to get from place to place fast.
On October 04 2011 10:58 DanielZKlein wrote: So how's the metagaming shaping up? Do we still get a 4/1 split with a 4v4 at windmill and then chaos? Or are people starting to stick to certain points to defend them?
Still solo bot, 1 mid, 3 top. Mid goes top after securing mid.
I'm thinking that you could sneak into enemy mid and take it when their mid runs top. Your own team comp needs to have a lot of AOE poke however to stop them from capping.
You can and it usually works. The problem is that there isn't really a team comp that can stop a 4v3 from taking the top, unless the 4 are horrible. And then it's usually not that difficult for the enemy to take back their mid.
Still, if your team has horrible level three teamfighting ability, you could do worse.
Nidalee feels like a strong bot lane with good pushing power after lvl 6, great poke, good sustain and great escape. It feels like she can easily pressure bot to force a 1v2 and still be able to handle it and effectively give the team a huge advantage in roaming the other sections of the map.
It will be interesting to see how Xerath functions on this map given his strong poke that is harder to dodge than Kog's. Assualting champions will have to stay pretty far back to be safe and if they try to push a lane Xerath can just kill the wave.
Just played AP Shaco here with rushed Rylai's. DAMN. It only takes 2-3 boxes (depends on the fear walk) to kill most opponents. So much mayhem in the middle of the map.
On October 05 2011 02:16 Requizen wrote: Still can't figure out what to build on Akali first, so much goodness to get. I did Mobil boots first a couple times, but I like having passive up for that first teamfight, so I've been going 1boots + 2 Tomes and then getting Revolver on my first trip back. Sheen first might be nice, though, so dunno lol.
played tons of game with akali what always start up with 2 tomes 350g boots 2 Hpotion then i build up the revolver, then sheen, then i complete hextec gunblade, i like to take the tenacity boots then complete lichbane, rylays and then and armor item, could be hourglass or yesterday i tryed thornmail bot wasnt very worth it i think but my core is hexteck first, boots, lichbane, rylai staff, ready to own tons of people
On October 06 2011 13:29 UniversalSnip wrote: I feel like the gold reduction in the last patch was a significant improvement.
Agreed. I feel that certain champs got to buy their full kit even if they didn't get any kills. Playing as kog I was generally able to get zerks/malady/bloodrazor no matter what, and be working on sanguine blade by the time the game ended.
Too much gold for doing nothing before. Now it seems much more reasonable.
On October 06 2011 13:29 UniversalSnip wrote: I feel like the gold reduction in the last patch was a significant improvement.
Agreed. I feel that certain champs got to buy their full kit even if they didn't get any kills. Playing as kog I was generally able to get zerks/malady/bloodrazor no matter what, and be working on sanguine blade by the time the game ended.
Too much gold for doing nothing before. Now it seems much more reasonable.
Ninja edit
well I don't think it made as big a difference as you make it sound... just if you are playing better, it lets you get at least a little relevant gold lead by the end of the game.
On October 06 2011 12:55 garlicface wrote: Just played AP Shaco here with rushed Rylai's. DAMN. It only takes 2-3 boxes (depends on the fear walk) to kill most opponents. So much mayhem in the middle of the map.
Rylais isn´t actually optimal. Shaco has slows already, a much more potent option is Deathfire grasp since that gives significant burst and CDR. Really AP shaco isn´t about stacking boxes and praying that someone stumbles into them but to maintain map control.
On October 06 2011 13:29 UniversalSnip wrote: I feel like the gold reduction in the last patch was a significant improvement.
Agreed. I feel that certain champs got to buy their full kit even if they didn't get any kills. Playing as kog I was generally able to get zerks/malady/bloodrazor no matter what, and be working on sanguine blade by the time the game ended.
Too much gold for doing nothing before. Now it seems much more reasonable.
Ninja edit
well I don't think it made as big a difference as you make it sound... just if you are playing better, it lets you get at least a little relevant gold lead by the end of the game.
It's a good change at first glance, but the dominion metagame didn't get a chance to evolve enough to prove otherwise. I mean, not being alive to cap/defend points could be punishment enough for reckless play, so I'm not 100% sure the gold decrease was needed.
On October 06 2011 13:29 UniversalSnip wrote: I feel like the gold reduction in the last patch was a significant improvement.
Agreed. I feel that certain champs got to buy their full kit even if they didn't get any kills. Playing as kog I was generally able to get zerks/malady/bloodrazor no matter what, and be working on sanguine blade by the time the game ended.
Too much gold for doing nothing before. Now it seems much more reasonable.
Ninja edit
well I don't think it made as big a difference as you make it sound... just if you are playing better, it lets you get at least a little relevant gold lead by the end of the game.
It's a good change at first glance, but the dominion metagame didn't get a chance to evolve enough to prove otherwise. I mean, not being alive to cap/defend points could be punishment enough for reckless play, so I'm not 100% sure the gold decrease was needed.
the gold decrease was needed because a 10-0 Jax with 20 minion kills might have Gunblade, Revolver and boots, but at the same time a 0-10 Jax with 0 minion kills could still have Gunblade and boots. Now there's a slightly greater difference between farmed and notfarmed. Also, 5 minute gunblade is no fun for anyone not named Jax or Akali. (well, it's kinda fun for a lot of champs, but not if the enemy team has Jax or Akali) Basically, early game champs are now slightly better and having an advantage leads to a slightly greater advantage now.
I don't know if I'm doing something wrong, but what I play Jax in Dominion it's not insta win so it's weird to me that he gets banned so often. Rush Gunblade have a lot but not full dodge runes don't engage in fighting multiple enemies when I can avoid it etc. I mean Jax is good, but I don't really think he is that overpowered. He isn't the best tower diver either like Xin and can't poke of course.
I do better with Singed and even Kog when he was free even though I didn't have runes for Kog.
Am I the only one who thinks a carry dominated wankfest is a bad idea for the game?
Maybe it's just the support player in me, but I can't stand this format. I think the gold gain needs to be nuked even more significantly and gold to be earned from capping points increased. At least then it would promote teamwork more than 1:1 hero trades to get carries more farmed.
On October 13 2011 08:29 deth2munkies wrote: Am I the only one who thinks a carry dominated wankfest is a bad idea for the game?
Maybe it's just the support player in me, but I can't stand this format. I think the gold gain needs to be nuked even more significantly and gold to be earned from capping points increased. At least then it would promote teamwork more than 1:1 hero trades to get carries more farmed.
1:1 hero trades don't get you very farmed. If you cap a point solo you get as much as if you kill someone with no kill/deathstreak. Strong 1v1ers just control the center of the map and force opponents to travel in groups. Strong teamfighters are good for contesting top. It's somewhat assassin-dominated but not even that significantly. In fact, traditional ranged carries are probably the weakest on Dominion.
What the hell is consistent at bottom? The only hero I can consistently not getting fucked up in some way or other is Singed, but playing purely Singed bot lane gets slightly boring after a while. Every other so-called bot laner I feel like falls apart to good counterpicks/ganks.
Edit: Also I find traditional ranged AD carry unbelievably necessary on Dom. They get farmed so goddamn fast and start mowing down stuff, while providing the best 2-man hold (along with a tank), good creep pushing (necessary for capping) and ye olde ranged poke.
Trist is my #1 atm, although Twitch is up there too.
On October 19 2011 08:26 Southlight wrote: What the hell is consistent at bottom? The only hero I can consistently not getting fucked up in some way or other is Singed, but playing purely Singed bot lane gets slightly boring after a while. Every other so-called bot laner I feel like falls apart to good counterpicks/ganks.
Edit: Also I find traditional ranged AD carry unbelievably necessary on Dom. They get farmed so goddamn fast and start mowing down stuff, while providing the best 2-man hold (along with a tank), good creep pushing (necessary for capping) and ye olde ranged poke.
Trist is my #1 atm, although Twitch is up there too.
Yup, recently discovered How good Tristana is at Dominion...stackin' those.....umm...forget the name. Bloodthirster replacements all day.
I don't even just stack them, I just go Sanguin Blade -> Black Cleaver/Lightbringer -> IE -> Last Whisper, hahah. So good.
But yea, that bot lane makes me go nuts. Maokai is probably consistent too but his early-game is pretty rough if they send someone else down for cheap ganks. Instantly dies.
Edit: On Twitch I open Zerker Greaves, either LS for Light or another Dagger for Cleaver, and some heal pots. Fun stuff :>
On October 19 2011 08:36 Southlight wrote: I don't even just stack them, I just go Sanguin Blade -> Black Cleaver/Lightbringer -> IE -> Last Whisper, hahah. So good.
But yea, that bot lane makes me go nuts. Maokai is probably consistent too but his early-game is pretty rough if they send someone else down for cheap ganks. Instantly dies.
Edit: On Twitch I open Zerker Greaves, either LS for Light or another Dagger for Cleaver, and some heal pots. Fun stuff :>
On Ezzy I just open Sheen no Boots, huehue.
My favorite bot lanes are Galio and Gragas. I also saw a yorick doing decently. You just need to know when to push and when to back off.
Maokai is probably my most consistently reliable bottom laner. Teemo does surprisingly well, too. He can trade well vs almost anyone if you play right, and right around the time someone could start overwhelming you with minions, you get your shrooms to push back. It isn't very exciting, but I do feel like he fills the role rather well. I'm not sure why he does, but I don't think I've lost bottom lane yet with him. It feels sort of wasteful to keep him in bottom lane all game because of move quick not getting much use, but you can get decent shroom coverage if you harass the opposing bot laner enough to buy you some free time.
On October 19 2011 08:26 Southlight wrote: What the hell is consistent at bottom? The only hero I can consistently not getting fucked up in some way or other is Singed, but playing purely Singed bot lane gets slightly boring after a while. Every other so-called bot laner I feel like falls apart to good counterpicks/ganks.
Falling apart to good ganks is more of a team problem rather than an individual character problem. If the only way to make a character fall apart is with good ganks then that character is a good bot laner.
For my money I would stick Heimerdinger down there. Haven't found anyone that can keep him away pre-level 6, and if I'm laning against someone who does crap on me after getting their ultimate I just switch out.
On October 19 2011 08:26 Southlight wrote: What the hell is consistent at bottom? The only hero I can consistently not getting fucked up in some way or other is Singed, but playing purely Singed bot lane gets slightly boring after a while. Every other so-called bot laner I feel like falls apart to good counterpicks/ganks.
Falling apart to good ganks is more of a team problem rather than an individual character problem. If the only way to make a character fall apart is with good ganks then that character is a good bot laner.
For my money I would stick Heimerdinger down there. Haven't found anyone that can keep him away pre-level 6, and if I'm laning against someone who does crap on me after getting their ultimate I just switch out.
Cassiopeia gives Heimerdinger some serious problems in my experience. She's my go-to counter-pick when I see him.
On October 19 2011 11:23 KaoReal wrote: Maokai is probably my most consistently reliable bottom laner. Teemo does surprisingly well, too. He can trade well vs almost anyone if you play right, and right around the time someone could start overwhelming you with minions, you get your shrooms to push back. It isn't very exciting, but I do feel like he fills the role rather well. I'm not sure why he does, but I don't think I've lost bottom lane yet with him. It feels sort of wasteful to keep him in bottom lane all game because of move quick not getting much use, but you can get decent shroom coverage if you harass the opposing bot laner enough to buy you some free time.
I've been playing a lot of Blitzcrank in dominion lately... he seems quite good, but the game is short enough he doesn't really benefit from manamune to justify getting it. Build I go is typically:
Ionian Boots->Sheen->Sunfire Cape->Force of Nature->Frozen Heart or Thornmail (game usually ends at this point)
While running defensive masteries and runes (side from armor penetration marks/quints).
Gives you enough to damage to be a threat by yourself when defending points, but more importantly you can survive teamfights pretty well and can punt people constantly. Gives your carries a much, much easier time. Also important is that fact you can truck around to all the points pretty quickly. You can also gank bottom and if they're not expecting you get a very easy kill and cap.
Also, Blitzcrank/Karthus is a pretty lulz combination. It's like no one can touch Karthus because if they get anywhere near him you can pull them into his aura, and an extra second of free damage when you punt them into the air makes a world of difference. The few games my friend and I have run this have been a complete stompfest.
On October 19 2011 08:26 Southlight wrote: What the hell is consistent at bottom? The only hero I can consistently not getting fucked up in some way or other is Singed, but playing purely Singed bot lane gets slightly boring after a while. Every other so-called bot laner I feel like falls apart to good counterpicks/ganks.
Falling apart to good ganks is more of a team problem rather than an individual character problem. If the only way to make a character fall apart is with good ganks then that character is a good bot laner.
For my money I would stick Heimerdinger down there. Haven't found anyone that can keep him away pre-level 6, and if I'm laning against someone who does crap on me after getting their ultimate I just switch out.
Yep.
A defender's role is to:
1. Defend bot/top from one champion in a sustainable fashion. 2. Push bot/top if it's safe. 3. Help big team fights in the center. 4. Delay bot/top capture for as long as possible against multiple champions.
You can only delay multiple champs for so long, and at a certain point it becomes your teammates responsibility to help you out.
The problem is that it's all well to theorycraft on being able to hold off multiple people, but against certain heroes if you get ganked and bot and die, it takes the whole house to re-take the tower. It's why I feel there's a premium on heroes that can ganked and at least hang on for dear life. Due to the lack of vision it's really hard to pre-emptively ready for a gank.
I am, however, thinking long and hard about actually just running a 3-2 split and sending two bot from the get-go, with a proper thought-out duo setup bot (Soraka + burst AD?) to wreck bottom lane and force an inferior 2v2. People tend to design teams around 4-1 but there's an eventuality of a 3-2 split anyways, 2 man bot is simply more stable, and if you design around 3v3 and 2v2 you can get an advantage over a team that designed around 4-1 IMO.
On October 21 2011 02:32 Southlight wrote: The problem is that it's all well to theorycraft on being able to hold off multiple people, but against certain heroes if you get ganked and bot and die, it takes the whole house to re-take the tower. It's why I feel there's a premium on heroes that can ganked and at least hang on for dear life. Due to the lack of vision it's really hard to pre-emptively ready for a gank.
I am, however, thinking long and hard about actually just running a 3-2 split and sending two bot from the get-go, with a proper thought-out duo setup bot (Soraka + burst AD?) to wreck bottom lane and force an inferior 2v2. People tend to design teams around 4-1 but there's an eventuality of a 3-2 split anyways, 2 man bot is simply more stable, and if you design around 3v3 and 2v2 you can get an advantage over a team that designed around 4-1 IMO.
If you blindly send two people bot at the start, you risk losing top. The best strategy from my theory-crafting point of view is:
1. At the start: Send one defender bot, one defender top, two champions with synergy top, one fast champion mid.
2. If you see two enemies capping bot at the start, send the mid champion to help bot after he caps. Otherwise, he'll help take top which is usually the case.
3. Set one defender top and one defender bot, while the other 3 champions coordinate ganks from center(ambushing shrines is a good idea), helping bot/top as needed.
You lose bot but you can push down their bot and force 3v3 2v2. Alternatively if you know you're sending a second bot you can do 5hit's patented cap mid then go bot with the solo, cap top with 4, and then shift to 3/3 2/2. The early game rarely matters anyways.
Edit: Yorick is okay but he dies to ganks and then can't re-claim, so IMO he's got the same problem as a lot of other solos.
On October 21 2011 05:58 Southlight wrote: You lose bot but you can push down their bot and force 3v3 2v2. Alternatively if you know you're sending a second bot you can do 5hit's patented cap mid then go bot with the solo, cap top with 4, and then shift to 3/3 2/2. The early game rarely matters anyways.
Edit: Yorick is okay but he dies to ganks and then can't re-claim, so IMO he's got the same problem as a lot of other solos.
Galio is seriously the best bot ever. Can hold off minions indefinitely. Can survive dives quite well. Can interrupt caps. Can retake with ult if he loses bot.
For the record I think Yorick is actually a very bad solo if the other player has a dedicated bot-laner. I take Singed and run all over Yorick and there's absolutely nothing Yorick can do about it. I'll always force at least a neutralize and I can usually score kills and hold their tower unless they swap/get help. Unfortunately then this underfarmed Yorick goes top and then is worthless, or dicks around 2v2.
On October 21 2011 05:58 Southlight wrote: You lose bot but you can push down their bot and force 3v3 2v2. Alternatively if you know you're sending a second bot you can do 5hit's patented cap mid then go bot with the solo, cap top with 4, and then shift to 3/3 2/2. The early game rarely matters anyways.
Edit: Yorick is okay but he dies to ganks and then can't re-claim, so IMO he's got the same problem as a lot of other solos.
Galio is seriously the best bot ever. Can hold off minions indefinitely. Can survive dives quite well. Can interrupt caps. Can retake with ult if he loses bot.
My current favorite bot is Nunu. His Q gives great sustain in lane, W is great on Dominion period(movement buff), E gives you poke(great for bot) and a slow(great on dominion), and if all else fails you have a great ulti for defense and teamfights.
Somehow, I think ward control is just as important on dominion as it is on SR. Once you cap 3 turrets and have the speed boosts warded, it's really hard for the enemy team to backdoor or outnumber.
On October 21 2011 06:18 Chairman Ray wrote: Somehow, I think ward control is just as important on dominion as it is on SR. Once you cap 3 turrets and have the speed boosts warded, it's really hard for the enemy team to backdoor or outnumber.
On October 21 2011 06:18 Chairman Ray wrote: Somehow, I think ward control is just as important on dominion as it is on SR. Once you cap 3 turrets and have the speed boosts warded, it's really hard for the enemy team to backdoor or outnumber.
And that's why wards don't exist in dominion.
Ah thanks for the correction, was just about to devise a support zilean build on dominion
Hahahah, yeah, it's the lack of wards that makes bot lane really tricky :> But I like it that way. I enjoy the fact that there's a lot of unpredictability and excitement instead of ho-hum I farm for 20 minutes.
Yeah I've seen some people run it. Speaking of summoner spells what do people like to take? I like Flash/Ghost on Ranged AD, Exhaust/Ghost or Garrison/Ghost on assassins and tanks. I think your team needs at least one Garrison, but I've found having two is fantastic :<
So I have mainly been defending bottom these days, basically because I like the 1v1 feeling of it and I like the choice of champs who can accomplish the tasks needed down there. Who's your favourite defender bottom? The way I see it, as long as you push waves constantly towards their bottom turret, they'll eventually lose it, or at least get it neutralized, so all you need to have is a champ who will never die, always repush, have lots of huehue meanwhile. I've been experimenting with Nidalee and I really like her a lot. Straight Catalyst into RoA -> Boots of Mobility -> Deathcap -> fast capture item is what I went so far. She never seems to lose bottom to anyone, at least that's what I've been able to observe. Thoughts?
I run Revive Ghost Olaf usually with armor pen reds, armor yellows, flat cdr blues, and movespeed quints 8/1/21 Open Brutalizer -> Ghostblade you can get away with not starting boots because of the movespeed from utility tree and runes. you also can outdamage pretty much anyone in the starting fight. You begin with 30 armor pen, +25 AD, and 34% CDR If you swap out the MS quints for armor pen and go 11/1/18 or something you hit 46 armor pen If you swap out the MS quints for flat CDR you hit 39% CDR. At the start of the game. IMBA.
On October 24 2011 00:31 Tooplark wrote: I run Revive Ghost Olaf usually with armor pen reds, armor yellows, flat cdr blues, and movespeed quints 8/1/21 Open Brutalizer -> Ghostblade you can get away with not starting boots because of the movespeed from utility tree and runes. you also can outdamage pretty much anyone in the starting fight. You begin with 30 armor pen, +25 AD, and 34% CDR If you swap out the MS quints for armor pen and go 11/1/18 or something you hit 46 armor pen If you swap out the MS quints for flat CDR you hit 39% CDR. At the start of the game. IMBA.
Wow, that sounds pretty gud. Sadly, I don't have CDR blues, as my two mains want to fully be equipped on their runes, too. (820 IP for a single dodge seal for Katarina, plus I think my Nasus could need some HP/5 quints), but even with MR/lvl, this should be pretty nasty. Do you find yourself going bottom a lot, though? A setup like this seems to cry for some mid/top dominance, even though I imagine it could be hard to catch up with people w/o boots.
It's amazing for fighting top. Just burst down anyone standing in front of you. QWQWQRQEQ R>Q>E>W After that build force of atmogs and maybe a randuins
I have a replay of me getting a quadra kill in the top teamfight somewhere but I can't find it. (So close to a penta!)
On October 22 2011 01:43 Southlight wrote: I don't mind Kog but Rammus is indeed rather broken. I don't mind him in blind pick but yea.
I have bigger issues with Karthus hahah.
Edit: Appropriately, hating on Karthus was the 666th reply.
After 150+ draft games on Dominion, I don't think rammus is as OP as people think he is but more a risk. The retarded amount of mobility is good, but you also have to consider that every time you runoff to capture an "undefended" point, you are effectively making windmill a 4v3/3v2/2v1 in their team's favor and a smart team can capitalize on that. Losing windmill to gain drill/refinery is NEVER a good trade since one is next to your spawn and easy to interrupt/recapture and the other is not. I've seen a lot of rammus's lose games for their team rather than win them.
Kog is only good if they don't have a million bruisers on their team. Yes there are very few champions that can 1v1 a kog and survive, but kog's effectiveness is pretty much zero when 2+ bruisers can jump on him and instantly gib him.
mufin, what ends up being the case is that Rammus is broken but most people don't play him well. Being able to grab a tower and then come back to 4v4 because he has great speed is absurd. He'll frequently cause numeric mismatches because he's so fast. He literally can sneak off to grab a tower and then come back and 4v4 or 2v1 bot without a hitch.
On October 24 2011 02:09 Tooplark wrote: It's amazing for fighting top. Just burst down anyone standing in front of you. QWQWQRQEQ R>Q>E>W After that build force of atmogs and maybe a randuins
I have a replay of me getting a quadra kill in the top teamfight somewhere but I can't find it. (So close to a penta!)
On October 24 2011 06:12 Southlight wrote: mufin, what ends up being the case is that Rammus is broken but most people don't play him well. Being able to grab a tower and then come back to 4v4 because he has great speed is absurd. He'll frequently cause numeric mismatches because he's so fast. He literally can sneak off to grab a tower and then come back and 4v4 or 2v1 bot without a hitch.
Speed + 3 second taunt is just redonkulous on Dom.
With Dominion having been out for awhile, and people now getting pretty used to it, we've had a chance to see how it's played out with thousands and thousands of players. We're happy with a lot of aspects with Dominion, but we think we can do some pretty major work to make significant improvements as well.
Our diagnosis currently is that there are three major hinderences that make Dominion less fun or interesting than it could be. First off;
* Players don't get enough "moments of glory", and don't easily see how their success can effect the game.
Progression and personal success are hallmarks of MOBA in general. In our effort to make a balanced experience strategically, we really lowered the ability for that one in twenty matches players get to experience "running away with the game" and feel like they achieved epic status. We feel this is creating some disconnect between the high highs classic can provide, and the more constant but metered pace of Dominion. We will be focusing systems that allow more (gold, specifically) power differential between players.
Our internal testing created some situations we felt this was mandatory. In practice, we think either an extremely toned-down version of this system or a removal of these systems needs to take place. This means games will be more representative of a team's skill, but you'll also experience more blow-out games. Our assertion is, generally, you can't achieve a decisive victory if you can't have extreme losses either, and that's needed to make a more memorable and deep experience.
Finally;
* A few champions are way too good on Dominion
This is actually the most surface-level thing, and is fixed when we adjust with the other aforementioned systems. To summarize, this is caused by the certainty of progression, where hyper-scaling champions can reach a late game, farmed state with certainty. Addressing that will address most of the specific egregious champion issues.
Dominion is something we think is really fun, and are proud to have put out, and that's all the more reason for us to ensure it receives continued support and major changes where needed. We feel OK being very disruptive to Dominion in the pre-season phase, and will likely be more conservative when Ranked is turned on. This is our (developers and players!) best opportunity to improve Dominion on some fundamental levels, and we're not going to miss it.
rammus is so broken that he can rush strait to the enemy bottem tower and interrupt its capture at level 3. Then the Bot lane can 2v1 and cap the enemy bot while the top messes arround 3v4 fighting for the windmill, and even though they should get it they're still losing points on the nexus.
This usually leads to enemy solo queue teams to commit too many resources to capping the bot lane and ends with them losing their windmill. The only real defense for this is sending two guys bottem, but currently it seems teams are sticking 1 guy bottem who can hold a tower 2v1 or an insanely good duelest bottem and 4 guys top. This early game Rammus style of interrupting what should be a give me capture point is what really can make a team snowball to an early 5 cap that ends a game in under 5 minutes.
On October 28 2011 23:22 Sabin010 wrote: rammus is so broken that he can rush strait to the enemy bottem tower and interrupt its capture at level 3. Then the Bot lane can 2v1 and cap the enemy bot while the top messes arround 3v4 fighting for the windmill, and even though they should get it they're still losing points on the nexus.
This usually leads to enemy solo queue teams to commit too many resources to capping the bot lane and ends with them losing their windmill. The only real defense for this is sending two guys bottem, but currently it seems teams are sticking 1 guy bottem who can hold a tower 2v1 or an insanely good duelest bottem and 4 guys top. This early game Rammus style of interrupting what should be a give me capture point is what really can make a team snowball to an early 5 cap that ends a game in under 5 minutes.
lol, yeah Rammus is broken as all hell. Only saving grace is that 99% of Rammus players are clueless as fuck.
I highly disagree about how broken Rammus is. I agree that he is very good but I don't think he's instaban good. His absurd mobility can be abused by smart players but it's not something that can't be overcome with good teamwork. The problem is that he's still Rammus and doesn't excel in 1v1 fighting. He needs his team with him to be a useful fighter and that's not going to happen if he's going for disruption.
Again, certainly a strong force in Dominion but in my opinion he's overrated.
On October 28 2011 23:22 Sabin010 wrote: rammus is so broken that he can rush strait to the enemy bottem tower and interrupt its capture at level 3. Then the Bot lane can 2v1 and cap the enemy bot while the top messes arround 3v4 fighting for the windmill, and even though they should get it they're still losing points on the nexus.
This usually leads to enemy solo queue teams to commit too many resources to capping the bot lane and ends with them losing their windmill. The only real defense for this is sending two guys bottem, but currently it seems teams are sticking 1 guy bottem who can hold a tower 2v1 or an insanely good duelest bottem and 4 guys top. This early game Rammus style of interrupting what should be a give me capture point is what really can make a team snowball to an early 5 cap that ends a game in under 5 minutes.
Rammus isn't the only character that can rush to the bottom tower and interrupt the capture. In fact, almost every champion can do it with boots of mobility and ghost.
Your analysis is fundamentally flawed. It relies on a bad opposing team. But onto the specifics.
It's usually not a 2v1 bottom lane if you interrupt the capture unless the other team is stupid. Often whoever capped mid will run down to bottom and get there about the same time as whoever capped bottom lane for you, which means it's a 2v2. Not to mention whoever you interrupted at bot lane will beat the crap out of Rammus in a 1v1 fight.
Meanwhile top isn't really a 3v4, it's a 2v3 until the people who capped mid join in. In my scenerio it'll be a 3v3 at that point, assuming everyone is still alive for some reason.
In any best-case scenerio it'll make an early 3 cap but in no way should things snowball to a 5 cap. I think you're just playing against really bad teams.
Except Rammus hammers most heroes 1v1, lol. People think he's all about mobility but he destroys bruisers en masse (he can usually 1v2 bruisers and come out either on top, stalemate, or take down a ridiculous amount of hp while going down) and gives ranged AD a run for their money. He can 1v5 a team for an insane amount of time while preventing tower neutralize/caps, particularly due to his ult. 3 second taunt is vicious on a map that a lot of people prefer avoiding Merc Treads - he practically forces it (similar reason why Fiddle is nasty on Dom). And as you can read about in the Rammus thread, built right, Rammus pretty much 1v1s most AD-based heroes when built for it.
Alright, but if you take out the mobility and build for taking out AD-based heroes, then he's still not banworthy IMO. Plenty of heroes can also do what you've described, and they're not getting banned either. (I certainly don't agree with your 1v5 comment but I understand the point.)
Also, does he hammer most heroes 1v1 at level 3? Nooo...
I agree that building him for mobility is bad and building like you suggested is better. Like I said, he's a strong force in Dominion. I don't think it's a bad choice to ban him but I also don't think it's the best choice.
I agree with Scamp, and I'd even go so far as to say speedy champions in general are good on dominion but they're not that good, as usually they lack a good 1v1 game.
As for rushing bot at the start, in my experience the only reason that strategy works is because bad teams try to get bot back with no teamwork. It's just so tempting to try to retake bot(since it's so close) straight after you re-spawn(which is a bad idea 90% of the time) instead of waiting for your teammates.
Well I mean, it took me a long-ass time to adjust to playing Rammus on Dom for instance, because the power item for him on SR is Wriggles. I open Tabi + Beadx2 and turn it into the cap item (the regen, cap, and speed boost active all are great on him), then like Warmog + Thornmail or whatnot. Due to the scaling nature of Dom (the late-game certainty) he becomes unbelievably stupid within 10-15 minutes, because he's already the best-scaling tank tank in the game (even on SR, where he's fundamentally loved and hated because of his ridiculous early and late game while having a void of a mid-game).
He's "overrated' in the sense that people somehow expect Rammus to carry 1v5 anyways (although late-game he can impact a game 1v5-style) but his effect on a game FAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAR surpasses everyone else. You don't need to do stupid gimmicks like robbing bot tower or shanking top tower or sniping neutra/caps. He's simply so hard to kill, gets from one place to another faster than everyone else, and outputs so much damage.
Edit: After seeing the post above, again, I reiterate
It's the terrible Rammus players that play him like a speedy hero. Rammus is fucking godly combat hero. He's a godly combat hero that happens to have one of the most ridiculous speed skills in the game for Dom, and that's what makes him bloody murder.
Hence why a number of us have kept reiterating that it's the Rammus player that sucks if he seems weak. The hero itself has all the tools you'd want, and that makes him broken as hell.
I was going to write out a long post about this but everything Southlight says is right. Rammus doesn't need any gimmicks to win. The fact that he can do all of his insane damage and tanking and be almost anywhere on the map within seconds is what makes him crazy. Oh and because it's dominion there's no real way to deny him gold or experience so you can't stop him getting crazy.
Well we all agree he's really good, we just disagree slightly on just how much.
I don't agree that his early game is ridiculous. I personally can't see how he's going to be so much of a boss with an early Priscilla's Blessing. I also don't see why you (Southlight) keep mentioning points where people say he seems weak since no one has ever said that.
I personally think that both you and Flicky overestimate the amount of gold and exp that you get on Dominion. It is definitely possible to deny a champion gold or experience, at least enough to prevent them from getting crazy. You shouldn't be crazy 10-15 minutes into Dominion unless you have a lot of kills or are a crazy champion with one or two items max.
Again, I must reiterate that he is a very good champ, but I don't think he is the best.
His early game ridiculous on SR sorry, it's "ok" on Dom but nothing to write home about.
Rammus can farm gold surprisingly quickly (it's why he's almost always #1 ranked in his team) because with Blessing he can force off-tower fights and neutralizes better than most other champs (with the possible exception of Shaco and Eve). While a lot of other heroes are much more stagnant in that they're either on tower or fighting with creep, Rammus goes where he pleases with impunity, so he generates gold-getting opportunities. To that end it's neigh impossible to deny Rammus farm unless his team is in shambles. 10-15 minutes into Dom you can finish at least Blessing and Warmog rather consistently assuming not-fail team. That makes him absurdly difficult to kill, and thanks to Blessing, once he neutralizes a tower can force your team to expend a LOT of effort (usually at least 2 ppl because he can 1v1 a lot of people) to re-cap the tower, during which time at the very least he prolongs the game. And so the vicious cycle goes. Furthermore due to his speed he can snipe neutra, force two people, and then shank a different tower (bot lane or 4v2 Windmill) faster than the 1-2 people who went to re-cap can. It's this sort of numeric advantage that he keeps generating that lets him rack up gold and extend games.
No one else can do this as effectively as he can. Shaco comes pretty close, especially a fed Shaco (as he can sit behind a tower and drop like 5 boxes and keep forcing neutra/caps) but he's not as consistent at it.
At this point I'd really like some way for you to show it if you can. Maybe I can queue with you later someday and we'll do some Dom normals. In any event, my reply is now spilling over into the general discussion.
On October 29 2011 01:20 Scamp wrote: At this point I'd really like some way for you to show it if you can. Maybe I can queue with you later someday and we'll do some Dom normals. In any event, my reply is now spilling over into the general discussion.
I'd like to get in on that.
Last night I played my first ever game of Dominion and chose Rammus for maybe the 5th time ever. I went Thornmail --> Warmog --> Blessing and some other stuff and went 19/2/10 with a quadrakill... all pretty much on accident. I'd love to see what someone who knows what he's doing with Rammus does with Rammus because I feel like there is a lot of potential there.
lol, I mean I can try but I doubt I'm very good at him either, especially as I don't think I'm particularly good on Dom yet. There must be someone far more refined than I am (Neo or someone from Shake's Dom squad).
On October 28 2011 23:45 Scamp wrote: I highly disagree about how broken Rammus is. I agree that he is very good but I don't think he's instaban good. His absurd mobility can be abused by smart players but it's not something that can't be overcome with good teamwork. The problem is that he's still Rammus and doesn't excel in 1v1 fighting. He needs his team with him to be a useful fighter and that's not going to happen if he's going for disruption.
Again, certainly a strong force in Dominion but in my opinion he's overrated.
On October 28 2011 23:22 Sabin010 wrote: rammus is so broken that he can rush strait to the enemy bottem tower and interrupt its capture at level 3. Then the Bot lane can 2v1 and cap the enemy bot while the top messes arround 3v4 fighting for the windmill, and even though they should get it they're still losing points on the nexus.
This usually leads to enemy solo queue teams to commit too many resources to capping the bot lane and ends with them losing their windmill. The only real defense for this is sending two guys bottem, but currently it seems teams are sticking 1 guy bottem who can hold a tower 2v1 or an insanely good duelest bottem and 4 guys top. This early game Rammus style of interrupting what should be a give me capture point is what really can make a team snowball to an early 5 cap that ends a game in under 5 minutes.
Rammus isn't the only character that can rush to the bottom tower and interrupt the capture. In fact, almost every champion can do it with boots of mobility and ghost.
Your analysis is fundamentally flawed. It relies on a bad opposing team. But onto the specifics.
It's usually not a 2v1 bottom lane if you interrupt the capture unless the other team is stupid. Often whoever capped mid will run down to bottom and get there about the same time as whoever capped bottom lane for you, which means it's a 2v2. Not to mention whoever you interrupted at bot lane will beat the crap out of Rammus in a 1v1 fight.
Meanwhile top isn't really a 3v4, it's a 2v3 until the people who capped mid join in. In my scenerio it'll be a 3v3 at that point, assuming everyone is still alive for some reason.
In any best-case scenerio it'll make an early 3 cap but in no way should things snowball to a 5 cap. I think you're just playing against really bad teams.
You're giving the average dominion player way too much credit, I see people still pickign these super late game scaling champs (Veigar, Nassus). I've started this way my last four or five dominion games going Graves/Rammus bottem, and there has not been a single instance of the enemy sending their mid cap guy bottem to help after the turret was interrupted. It doesn't always lead to a 5 cap, but when a team of randoms with poor communication are queued together it has lead to a 5 cap and a 5 minute victory.
Starting mobility boots and blowing ghost to interrupt the bot capture is actually setting the guy trying to interrupt back early as all you have are these mobility boots when a guy with a prospectors item and normal boots is just going to shit on you. Of course you're going to die in a 1v1 at level 3 with just mobility boots vs a guy with normal starting items. The reason rammus is good at it is he doesn't even have to deviate from his build to do it.
If Rammus isn't one of the top 10 champions for Dominion I obviously know nothing about the format, and will say we only won those games because of luck, poor enemy teams or what ever you want to call it. The fact remains Rammus is great against ad based champions, has some of the best mobility in a format where mobility is king, and can cause so much disruption in imblanced fights (i.e. the ones you really want to initiate and fight in, 1v2s 2v3s etc.). Calling him overrated in dominion is like saying Udyr is an overrated Jungler in SR, Janna is an overrated support pick, or boots 3pot is an overrated set of starting items.
Didn't like it until I tried it; the reason is simply because it lets me neutralize mid tower and bot tower faster than they can get to me (the cap speed is noticeable) which means I can prolong games and fuck their team up from the start :>
On October 29 2011 03:37 Southlight wrote: Didn't like it until I tried it; the reason is simply because it lets me neutralize mid tower and bot tower faster than they can get to me (the cap speed is noticeable) which means I can prolong games and fuck their team up from the start :>
Against a team that actually defends, going for a capture build(and play-style) can easily backfire and put your team in a 4v5 scenario, as you just get ganked and shrugged off easily. I'd rather have Rammus helping in team fights and assisting top/bot than just trying to distract the opposing team by running around.
On October 29 2011 03:37 Southlight wrote: Didn't like it until I tried it; the reason is simply because it lets me neutralize mid tower and bot tower faster than they can get to me (the cap speed is noticeable) which means I can prolong games and fuck their team up from the start :>
Against a team that actually defends, going for a capture build(and play-style) can easily backfire and put your team in a 4v5 scenario, as you just get ganked and shrugged off easily. I'd rather have Rammus helping in team fights and assisting top/bot than just trying to distract the opposing team by running around.
I hate pugs who go Rammus, buy Priscilla's, then spend the next 20 minutes trying to cap/uncap "open" points. I mean ffs, just fight a few team fights, roll over kids, then go cap.
ThornMog es OP. You can't run away from the Moose.
lol, I get Prisc because it's a guarantee, at least personally. Rammus is still Rammus in combat, and the hp regen is good either way for poke wars that you struggle to deal with. And if shit hits the fan he can force splits by being able to neutra mid/bot while still making it back to combat. I prefer having that threat than not.
I used to open double DShield but I just find the early Blessing really nasty for causing mismatches.
Oh I see, you were hating on the misuse of it. Gotcha.
Edit: On the topic of heroes and items, how the hell do you build Riven? I've been opening Boot + PBlade -> BFSword -> Cleaver, because it's just the most effective combo of blasting out damage ASAP so far that I've noticed. Not sure if there's a better way to do it. Also been doing QWE -> Q>W>E, not sure if right :<
I tend to build her glass cannon. It really depends on your ability to E and using that to take the brunt of the incoming damage. If you can't survive, build moar HP.
Okay, I understand the points people are making but some points are just mind-boggling on how unnecessary they are.
Sabin what's up with that giant rant about Rammus not being in the top 10? I just think he's overrated in that he shouldn't be an insta-ban every game. No one ever said he's not in the top 10, so that whole rant is pointless. Also, if he is in the top 10 then he's not insta-banworthy. You need to be in the top 4 (technically top 5 based on first-pick rights) for that.
It seems I need to get Rammus and play him more. And I'll do that.
Also Shake has a Dominion team? I think I'd like to play with or against it and see if my Dominion game is really as good as I think it is.
Well, you should be auto attacking once after every ability because of your passive. All her moves are either a type of gap closer or a stun, so you can get those autos off. I personally do a lot of right clicking. If it's not your cup of tea, go another BF build.
Both are acceptable for the same reasons. You're going to auto enough (or you should be...) with Riven to get your respective stacks built up. I've just never been a big fan of BC, only for Vayne and Corki tbh. SB provides some leech, so helps towards over all sustain, even if you're just pushing creeps waves asaply.
Oh, and depends on team comp. If other team has a Moose and Jarman, expect Atmogs or Thornmail builds, so BC no gud vs that team.
i build new dblade-> brutalizer -> sanguine blade -> odin's veil on pantheon with cdr boots
also pretty much the same skill order q > r > e > w
w at lvl 2, then max q, put 1 point in your ultimate at 6, but don't level it if it happens to be on cooldown, you better off putting points on other skills, then you level up anyway when it comes off cd
It's okay. He counters certain heroes bot, and can hammer people up top, but a lot of heroes get so much damage that he falls off really badly after a while. Similar to Shaco, IMO anyways.
What are some good item builds that win the first fight at top? I've seen a Ryze go two mana crystals for really strong Qs, but I'm not sure who else would really be able to abuse the itemization of the starting gold to win top fight.
Ryze is amazing in Dominion. I always do the tear + boots opening though, I've never considered getting the second mana crystal instead. It's not like Ryze really needs the extra crystal's damage at level 3-4 though because he does so well against champs that are normally scary then.
E: CDR question. CDR is maxed at 40% and all CDR is additive, so you get 9 from talents, 20 from frozen heart (gets built every game), and need to make up the remaining 11% elsewhere. Full blue CDR glyphs would only net another ~6% and they cost an outrageous amount of IP so what's the best item on Ryze to fill that gap? There's really nothing except frozen heart that has stat itemized well for him. I'm thinking I either make a second glacial shroud, or build Kindlegem and evenutally turn it into some kind of health item.
You have about 200 difference you go two mana crystals and boots vs tear boots, but it only gives you 50 more mana than going tears. Though the extra gold can be used to get your third mana crystal faster all of which I use to build items: tear, catalyst and glacial shard.
I've been doing well using this build. I really want to get rylai's but just end up building my mana items to frozen heart, banshee, and archangel. Situationally I get hextech sweeper which is useful vs stealth and also maxs out Ryze's CDR. Otherwise I suppose you could just make your kindle gem into a spirit visage if you have nothing else to build.
The AP it gives just doesn't do anything for him. I only end up building it when i literally have nothing else to buy. I get a void staff before i get that thing.
It sounds like the perfect match a mana stack champ with an AP/mana scale item but his ratios are just so terrible. Atleast 40% pierce pays off when slamming tanky targets.
On November 04 2011 17:30 R04R wrote: Ryze gets 2% CDR per level in Q. lol
Zzzz I knew that I just forgot lol.
And yeah I keep hearing that Archangel does nothing for Ryze, but I don't really think about building magic pen on dominion either because few people actually build magic resistance.
On November 04 2011 17:30 R04R wrote: Ryze gets 2% CDR per level in Q. lol
Zzzz I knew that I just forgot lol.
And yeah I keep hearing that Archangel does nothing for Ryze, but I don't really think about building magic pen on dominion either because few people actually build magic resistance.
That's because Dominion comps are usually 4 tanky dps bruiser types and like Heimer. I only build archangels if there's nothing else I can do, it's just a bunch of AP that just so happens to scale with your actual DPS stat. Tear, boots, Odin's, and Frozen Heart are the only items I consider "core" on Dominion Ryze.
So including a maxed out Q, glacial heart, and talents, Ryze has 39% CDR. It's a 0.03 second difference on your Q cooldown without that last point so I figure it could be closed with 2 CDR runes, which is way better than buying a full page of those 820 IP bastards.
On November 04 2011 17:30 R04R wrote: Ryze gets 2% CDR per level in Q. lol
Zzzz I knew that I just forgot lol.
And yeah I keep hearing that Archangel does nothing for Ryze, but I don't really think about building magic pen on dominion either because few people actually build magic resistance.
Then build 2x warmog.
Never ever dump gold into arch unless it is literally the last option for you.
I haven't played that much Dominion after it was released. I don't plan on playing it with any champion except for Ezreal; some low hp guy is at a capture point --> ult --> enemy has been slain. However, I heard that AP Ez is insanely good in dominion, since of the global gold (Is there even a global gold mechanic thingy in Dominion? xD) affecting his income allowing him to get ap items real quick. Have some of you experienced an AP Ez demolishing shit in Dominion?
I have demolished Dominion-shit with AP ez. It's pretty neat and imo outperforms AD ez, better AoE and stronger ult pretty much mean that you wreck more shit.
Not sure what you mean with global gold, but gold/10 is significantly increased, plus you get gold with caps, and Ez is a really good capper (and I'd recommend playing like a capper until you have your AP items, since you're not too useful in early fights)
In the end, it's just your call if you like to play AD or AP more, Ez is OP with either build.
So I've been playing abit of Dominion recently. Many of my games are getting into the extremely close endgame, where the score is like 20 - 20 and we have 3 capture points and all enemies are missing off the minimap. Or we have 2 capture points and are desperately trying to take a third.
Is there any discussion or general consensus on the various strategies one should adopt in these scenarios? How do you spread your team to hold 3 capture points for the last 20s? Or if you're down, do you 5 man attack a third capture point or split, lure enemies away, and hope to backdoor? Plus so many games have been barely won or lost by an ezreal or karthus or lux ult.
cdr / apish runes, ms quints 0/9/21 (or 9/0/21, but i like revive mastery) start boots of mobil + rejuv bead ghost+anything (i run revive for additional tempo/pressure)
start with QWW then EWRW (R>W>E>Q)
game starts, deceive+ghost straight for the top node. put down a jitb then immediately begin to start capping. keep being annoying, planting boxes and just capping and capping
after that fight breaks down (whether you win or lose), keep yourself fluid around the 3 opponent nodes (top and the 2 at btm opponent side). plant boxes at choke points every time it CDs, pick up mana and hp whenever you can. always deceive as you walk into the visible part of the map right before you are going to start capping, and plant a jitb behind you when you cap. when you die or you're super low on hp/mana, it's a good time to recall and buy priscilla blessing, then start stacking CDR. kindlegem, shurelya, fiendish codex -> dfg all work just fine. continue your capping madness and just generally be super annoying. what you attempt to do is force a numbers game where they constantly need at least 1 person to protect against you, yet that 1 person is not as mobile as you and you can thus exert more pressure than they can negate.
easy dominion wins as long as your team not retarded
ps: plant a surprise jitb on the node when you cap it
I agree with everything except the rejuv. Priscilla's is out. So just open Mobility and go into DFG. Really hard to do bad as AP Shaco on Dom. You can still lose but at least it won't be your fault.
On November 19 2011 01:24 NeoIllusions wrote: I agree with everything except the rejuv. Priscilla's is out. So just open Mobility and go into DFG. Really hard to do bad as AP Shaco on Dom. You can still lose but at least it won't be your fault.
On November 04 2011 17:30 R04R wrote: Ryze gets 2% CDR per level in Q. lol
Zzzz I knew that I just forgot lol.
And yeah I keep hearing that Archangel does nothing for Ryze, but I don't really think about building magic pen on dominion either because few people actually build magic resistance.
Then build 2x warmog.
Never ever dump gold into arch unless it is literally the last option for you.
You can't build warmogs on dominion. Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think Ryze can build up enough mana on an archangels in dominion. That's why you don't build it on him.
Who is storm shield best on? Assassins like it for the extra hp buffer and burst Pokey types like it for the large damage boost to each poke and regenerating shield Tanks like it for free extra threat (and durability) Deeps like it for more deeps (and durability)
I think it should mainly go to champs like Heimer or Nunu who can trigger it frequently on a long ranged spell. Unless it's solo queue where it goes to me regardless of team comp B[
On November 19 2011 01:24 NeoIllusions wrote: I agree with everything except the rejuv. Priscilla's is out. So just open Mobility and go into DFG. Really hard to do bad as AP Shaco on Dom. You can still lose but at least it won't be your fault.
is that a challenge, neo
I remember a certain Janna game. unibro #1 troll. happy bday as well troll~
On December 01 2011 05:29 Tooplark wrote: Who is storm shield best on? Assassins like it for the extra hp buffer and burst Pokey types like it for the large damage boost to each poke and regenerating shield Tanks like it for free extra threat (and durability) Deeps like it for more deeps (and durability)
I think it should mainly go to champs like Heimer or Nunu who can trigger it frequently on a long ranged spell. Unless it's solo queue where it goes to me regardless of team comp B[
Storm shield is an investment of time and gives away vision, so sometimes its not worth getting. If you have a minute to grab it, Storm shield should go to the member of your team who is the most mobile or does the most damage. Basically someone who is in there fighting all the time and can make use of it.
On December 01 2011 05:29 Tooplark wrote: Who is storm shield best on? Assassins like it for the extra hp buffer and burst Pokey types like it for the large damage boost to each poke and regenerating shield Tanks like it for free extra threat (and durability) Deeps like it for more deeps (and durability)
I think it should mainly go to champs like Heimer or Nunu who can trigger it frequently on a long ranged spell. Unless it's solo queue where it goes to me regardless of team comp B[
I'd say it's best for those guys on your team that dive enemy nodes to clear them for your capturer. They typically need all the survivability they can get so they probably get the most things done with it.
So, how's everyone feeling about Dominion? Been playing it a bit more lately, both as a break from ranked, for a (usually) 10min first win of the day with the new Dominion bot game option if my partner is home and I might have to AFK, and to play champs with builds I can't really get away with in SR (AP/Lichbane Maokai, tanky/CDR Warwick, etc).
Considering there's no blue buff, what are the good CDR options for mages? Not sure if my leeriness of Morello's Evil Tome is a holdover from "never build this" SR mentality; have done OK with Hextech Sweeper, too. Alternately, with all the bruiser-y melees running rampant in Dominion, should I just build Glacial Shroud/Frozen Heart?
Considering there's no blue buff, what are the good CDR options for mages? Not sure if my leeriness of Morello's Evil Tome is a holdover from "never build this" SR mentality; have done OK with Hextech Sweeper, too. Alternately, with all the bruiser-y melees running rampant in Dominion, should I just build Glacial Shroud/Frozen Heart?
hextech sweeper is too good of an item not to have in every game. Its active of revealing an area, is akin to having a ward on dominion.
Not sure if it is just my imagination but I feel that I'm getting a lot more ip in dominion, a 20 minute game in dominion gives around 50 ip win or lose, 10 minute games gives 30ish ip, feels like a lot... maybe just my imagination.
Also my q's had started to be longer 3-5 minutes and dominion qs are instant.
I play mostly Dominion because at my (low) level, SR games just take way too long. Like average ~45 minutes every game. But recently I've found the wonders of ARAB (all random all bottom) on Dominion and it's a blast. Everyone can level up adequately unlike SR ARAM and you still get lots of money, mostly with everyone ending on 4-5 items by the game's end. And each game is maybe 20-25 minutes. Great for when I have to play so sporadically throughout the week.
Dominion is already ranked, there's an elo recorded to your games. However, with the recent Lulu patch they took it out from being able to be detected by Jabebot. Blind and draft pick share the same elo. I was 2050 elo before they took it out and now have lost interest in Dominion because I can't keep track of my elo anymore lol.
I play blind because once people start picking OPs in draft other people follow up with even more OPs which gets stale; and counterpicking is even more significant in dom than sr because you're fighting all the time. For the most part dom at 2k elo people are good with their champs and people rarely waste time. It's all about maximizing the effeciency of your time spent on the map, because it's obvious win or lose the game is based on a ticking time bomb. If I lose the first fight top and the enemy team has established a strong defense, the first thing I'll do is look for a gank opportunity bottom. Even if it doesn't net me a kill or a tower, it'll swing the momentum in the bot lane into my ally's favor. This slow churning will eventually make our bot laner overwhelm the enemy bot laner, forcing 2 bottom on their side and gives us a window of opportunity to force something top.
Well, banning ops and getting ops is how draft works... but who are the ops in dominion?
The only thing I've come up with is to have a strong pusher bot taht can just stay in lane forever like Soraka or Yorick, I've been playing a lot of Yorick and I've lost some lanes (a lot actually ^^') vs wukong or panth, maybe I shouldnt start with a tear when they are gonna have a brutalizer >.>
I think people overstate the imbalance of dominion. There is a lower pool of viable champs than SR, maybe, but still there are a lot of champs that are good and I think it would be a fantastic competitive game. Just the strategy is not very well established and it is veeeery hard to coordinate a strategy. Like, everyone in SR knows the general roles, whereas team comp and roles in dominion are largely unknown outside of a pusher bot and bruisers top.
That being said, just play whoever you like and chances are, the champ will work. Its a great way to learn a champ as well.
Dominion is a heaven for Poppy. Not sure if she is op in dominion or what, everytime someone picks her she carries really hard . I think its because she is strong at 1v1s and 1v2s, plus dominion has lots of walls = lots of stuns for poppy. Also, she doesn't need to farm, which was the main downside of poppy. And I guess most tanks suck at dominion.
Imo 4 fighters top are not good in dominion. Versus just a couple of mages or even ad ranged, they can never stay in range of the tower for capture, they will get poked and they will have to concede the tower. Then again, I dont have that much experience, maybe with appropriate summoners.
Bottom is essentially half the battle. Or rather, it's an equally important fight between the two people and the eight people. Securing an advantage bottom forces pressure from top to bottom, making top a 4v3 fight.
From my limited experience, the most well-rounded bottom picks at their job are Yorick/Heimer for brick wall pushing, Urgot/Pantheon for agressive stuff, Ryze for a good balance between the two. These champs have a small amount of bad matchups and can handle/delay 1v2s for a decent amount of time.
I'm completely clueless about top composition though. I don't really have anyone to properly experiment with.
One thing that has lost more games than I can count; if you win a fight but are personally low, do NOT linger if they're not going to be there in the next 10 seconds, you can't win the fight or would be forced to fight super passively. It is almost always not worth delaying the enemy a few seconds for your death. Go back to base and immediately rush back. A champion at full health for the next skirmish is almost always better than a tower advantage and a champion at 30% health.
Heimer was one the champs that I would have never consider even buying, I dislike him so much. But in dominion he is so strong, think I'm gonna have to start to farm me a heim.
Dominion is amusing but silly. Played my first 2 games of it at PAX and it just felt like it would be a bad idea for competitive play, but actually pretty good at conventions like PAX when you want to get games in faster and have more brutal action more quickly.
On April 11 2012 04:45 Mogwai wrote: Dominion is amusing but silly. Played my first 2 games of it at PAX and it just felt like it would be a bad idea for competitive play, but actually pretty good at conventions like PAX when you want to get games in faster and have more brutal action more quickly.
a lot of people play a handful of games of dom, don't know what they are doing or the strategy, and decide that it has no depth. I think it is silly to dismiss the competitive viability of dom after two(!) games.
I think it just needs greater incentive to play (i.e. a ranked ladder) and the strategy would take a leap forward.
On April 11 2012 04:45 Mogwai wrote: Dominion is amusing but silly. Played my first 2 games of it at PAX and it just felt like it would be a bad idea for competitive play, but actually pretty good at conventions like PAX when you want to get games in faster and have more brutal action more quickly.
a lot of people play a handful of games of dom, don't know what they are doing or the strategy, and decide that it has no depth. I think it is silly to dismiss the competitive viability of dom after two(!) games.
I think it just needs greater incentive to play (i.e. a ranked ladder) and the strategy would take a leap forward.
Well, it only took a couple games for me to see a few things that really throw balance out of whack on the map as far as I can tell. 1. The fact that 2 cap points are right next to your respawn and 1 is actually in realistic neutral territory drives action to the neutral top location too much. 2. Farm scaling is all out of whack. So many balance decisions made for Summoner's Rift with regards to scaling vs. difficulty to get that farm falls by the wayside on Dominion because all it really takes is being present at skirmishes to get as much gold and exp as you can expect to get on Dominion. 3. Mobility is at such a ridiculous premium on the map. Any sort of consistent speed boost or semi-global feels completely nutty on the map. Characters without good mobility felt obsolete and clunky on Dominion other than Heimer, lol.
I dunno, it's fair to say I haven't played enough, but these things were big turn offs for me as far as taking the map seriously is concerned.
On April 11 2012 04:45 Mogwai wrote: Dominion is amusing but silly. Played my first 2 games of it at PAX and it just felt like it would be a bad idea for competitive play, but actually pretty good at conventions like PAX when you want to get games in faster and have more brutal action more quickly.
a lot of people play a handful of games of dom, don't know what they are doing or the strategy, and decide that it has no depth. I think it is silly to dismiss the competitive viability of dom after two(!) games.
I think it just needs greater incentive to play (i.e. a ranked ladder) and the strategy would take a leap forward.
Well, it only took a couple games for me to see a few things that really throw balance out of whack on the map as far as I can tell. 1. The fact that 2 cap points are right next to your respawn and 1 is actually in realistic neutral territory drives action to the neutral top location too much. 2. Farm scaling is all out of whack. So many balance decisions made for Summoner's Rift with regards to scaling vs. difficulty to get that farm falls by the wayside on Dominion because all it really takes is being present at skirmishes to get as much gold and exp as you can expect to get on Dominion. 3. Mobility is at such a ridiculous premium on the map. Any sort of consistent speed boost or semi-global feels completely nutty on the map. Characters without good mobility felt obsolete and clunky on Dominion other than Heimer, lol.
I dunno, it's fair to say I haven't played enough, but these things were big turn offs for me as far as taking the map seriously is concerned.
Two additional things I noticed (I only play casually and to try out stuff, so my ELO is probably really low in dom):
- The mana regen increase really screws up champ balance; it helps some much more than others. - Bottom lane is really broken if you have a strong pusher and 1v1 champ.
I find Yorick in particular to be ridiculously effective bot lane. Get one level in E then max Q, then completely crush most champions and force their top to help bottom lane. I assume he's always banned in draft mode; I've only played normals.
On April 11 2012 04:45 Mogwai wrote: Dominion is amusing but silly. Played my first 2 games of it at PAX and it just felt like it would be a bad idea for competitive play, but actually pretty good at conventions like PAX when you want to get games in faster and have more brutal action more quickly.
a lot of people play a handful of games of dom, don't know what they are doing or the strategy, and decide that it has no depth. I think it is silly to dismiss the competitive viability of dom after two(!) games.
I think it just needs greater incentive to play (i.e. a ranked ladder) and the strategy would take a leap forward.
Well, it only took a couple games for me to see a few things that really throw balance out of whack on the map as far as I can tell. 1. The fact that 2 cap points are right next to your respawn and 1 is actually in realistic neutral territory drives action to the neutral top location too much. 2. Farm scaling is all out of whack. So many balance decisions made for Summoner's Rift with regards to scaling vs. difficulty to get that farm falls by the wayside on Dominion because all it really takes is being present at skirmishes to get as much gold and exp as you can expect to get on Dominion. 3. Mobility is at such a ridiculous premium on the map. Any sort of consistent speed boost or semi-global feels completely nutty on the map. Characters without good mobility felt obsolete and clunky on Dominion other than Heimer, lol.
I dunno, it's fair to say I haven't played enough, but these things were big turn offs for me as far as taking the map seriously is concerned.
There are definitely a number of challenges for the map atm. However, it also has a lot of potential for a couple reasons: 1. It has much faster gameplay with more opportunities for "making plays" because the fighting is so much more frequent 2. much greater potential for comebacks/nailbiter finishes
As for concerns about the balance, I am definitely not the right person to speak to that. At least one top dominion player (Sauron) certainly thinks the champion balance is good. Check out his post on the LoL forums: http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=1949008
In my own limited experience, dominion does value certain gameplay mechanics more than SR does, but there are still enough viable options for it to have a lot of depth.
I guess my TL;DR is that I think it has a lot of potential and that the imbalances are overstated.
While I agree that imbalances are overstated, dominion just doesnt seem that fun to me. It might just be the people I play with but there just seems to be no strategy. Its really good to get to know the pros and cons of a champion though.
Just spent a long time reading this thread from start to finish and am a little sad to see that most of the posts were theorycrafting before release and discussion during the chaotic mess of the first two months of it's existence. Dominion's changed a lot, but some people got things right. Here's a rundown on present-day dominion.
Bottom lane makes the game. If your bottom lane champions are not consistently holding their point then top starts to fall apart because someone needs to split off to bail out bottom unless they swap for a better champ. In most cases they aren't two bottom-lane optimal champs on the same team.
Bring the ability to delay because there are a lot of losing battles in dominion that can easily be swung into your favor by being able to delay until your teammates can arrive. There have been fights at windmill that came down to a 1v3 defense that was drawn out long enough for backup to arrive and save the tower from being taken. Had it been lost the whole dynamic of the engagement changes for the worse.
Supports are damned awesome because having a Janna or even better a Lulu on your team really extends the survivability of your teammates and does a great job of chasing and interrupting with the airborne and slow.
Make sure you have some health. Having survivability makes things more consistent. Dominion is a very chaotic game and comebacks from an over 400 point deficit happen often enough to not raise an eyebrow. A team that is 5 capping can easily become 5 capped without defensive items. If both teams build fragile then the game is an unpredictable roll of the dice every engagement to see who dies last. If one team builds defensive items and the other doesn't often they win out as the game progresses once they have the endurance to dive problem characters on the opposing team. If both teams build defensive items then fights are very consistent. Coin flip team fights become positional engagements and are much mroe decisive than graves building heavy AD and splattering half a team with a lucky shot due to bad positioning. It gives you the ability to make mistakes without being completely destroyed as a result
You can lose a point and get it back later. If things look bad don't be dive bait at low hp and die uselessly. Walk away and recall or interrupt/delay from a save distance and wait for your teammates. Don't die needlessly. You can let a point for for a minute then pick it back up again and be ok. If they're overly defensive just go somewhere else if they're secure on a point. Moving elsewhere on the map and forcing enemy champs to leave their tower enables you to catch them in the jungle where they lack defender's advantage then just go pick up the tower later.
Revive is amazing and everyone should have it. Revive enables a bottom lane champion to get a free pass if they get ganked. They will be able to return to their tower and prevent it's capture. Up top an early death isn't as bad since you can just pop it and head back to the right. This is especially powerful with Pantheon, Shen, and Nocturne.
Exhaust, Garrison, and Igntie are great because they benefit your whole team as opposed to just one member. Exhaust limits an enemy champ's damage vs all of your teammates, garrison interrupts captures of your team's points and reduces the damage their turrets deal to your team, and ignite limits an enemy champs ability to recover damage dealt by your team.
Promotes get killed off, surge only benefits one champion and isn't as significant a buff as exhaust is a debuff, ghost affects only one champion and doesn't improve their combat effectiveness (some champs have a speed to damage mechanic, but they are few), cleanse is a comp dependant thing useful mostly on champs like Jax and Darius who are deathly allergic to cc, heal works with some comps if your team builds around it a little bit, flash can be ok on alistar and similar champs but garrison is still better for the team, clarity is rarely needed ro useful, but clairvoyance can be amazing at times though is usually easily skippable.
It's safe to throw items like odyn's veil, frozen heart, frozen mallet, and hexdrinker into most champions' builds for added durability to make gameplay more consistent. Youmu's is an amazing item for it's pen and move speed. You will rarely see straight damage items like Infinity Edge and Phantom Dancer. Pen is favored because it gives you a lot more mileage out of your minimal AP and AD that getting an item like haunting guise or brutallizer is a great idea early game. Hextech Sweeper is awesome for checking bushes and will save you from more than a few bad situations. It's reveal is also handy in a number of situations.
Yorick makes an amazing bottom lane because of his sustain and ability to push. Urgot also makes a great bottom lane due to his range and AD Malzahar performs well bottom too. Ahri, Maokai, Ryze, and Udyr make fair bottom lane champs for the same reason of sustainability. Dr. Mundo does some work down there occasionally, but not as much in recent days.
Janna and Lulu are borderline bans for their ability to support. Strangely Sona and Soraka don't get much attention. Soraka was a bottom laner for a while, but has since fallen off. Due to everyone building items like frozen heart and abyssal scepter auras are usually widely available. They'll sometimes pick up an aegis since not that many other champs do, but generally they are there to interrupt and keep the focus target alive. Their damage shields and healing are much more pronounced in the high survivability environment of dominion.
Kassadin and Poppy are the two most bannable champions in dominion. Kass building frozen heart, odyn's veil, tear of the goddess, and more leads to high durability and a lot of riftwalk spam. Since his riftwalk base damage increases he doesn't need to build a lot of AP to be dangerous. AP Poppy is a nightmare especially with a sheen opening and some conservative play to maximize sheen procs in the opening fight. Her ultimate is downright unfair and there's so much terrain devastating blow just powers through people. Both of them have extreme mobility, chase, and escape ability making them dreadful to play against and powerful assests to a team.
Wukong and Warwick have good surviability. Warwick has nice sustain, chase, and the suppress is nice. Wukong's ult is great for diving towers and his stealth causes so much minor trouble it's a major boon. Both are picked fairly often. Pantheon and Jax make a hellish combination when on the same. Pantheon is picked extremely often due to his ultimate, his duratbility, stun, and damage output. Jax is the lord of AD and an amazing duelist against the other AD champs.
Malphite and Alistar come up a lot in this game type. Both are durable. Alistar's CC and ult make him a great defender or diver and Malphite makes AD champions unhappy. Malphite's slow has secured mroe kills than I can count plus his ult is nice to have handy. Blitzcrank makes an excellent dps. The amount of disruption and damage he can cause gets him a lot of game time.
Rammus and Shaco have falled off significantly. Rammus is still a solid pick, but people have figured him out. Back door games are a lot less effective than before especially in a post-priscilla's dominion. He's certainly durable and his airborne+taunt are useful, but his difficulty engaging holds him back a bit. Shaco is so fragile that if he dies all the advantage of playing him is immediately lost. He's a great distraction, but dies quickly when exposed to anything. Kinda like white phosphorus in an oxygen rich enviroment. As AP he can pull off some ganks, but is a one-and-done champs. No one bothers to chase him they just retreat to a point so the vision prevents him from ambushing. Also the prevalence of high defense play limits his gank potential significantly. Shaco is largely ignored now. Twitch and Eve met a similar fate.
Kat was heralded as being broken, but dies quickly with a fragile ult and the need to be amid the enemy team to deploy sufficient damage. She's a fair gank and an amazing cleanup champ, but during the fight her damage is minor and easily ignored except to interrupt her ult. She also suffers from the defensive prevalence and doesn't clean up fights with the efficiency she used to. Master Yi has the same issue of being extremely susceptible to CC and needed to be in the fight. However AP Yi sees play due to his ability to soak damage and harass with Alpha Strike. The rapid fire killing with Highlander on AP Yi is rare, and unheard of with AD Yi.
Darius is what Katarins used to be. Darius can machine gun down champs as he gets killing blows using his true damage ult. He's only been in the game for a little while, but is a priority ban for his durability and clean up potential. He excels in the drawn out fights that occur on dominion where people get low on hit points then retreat, but his true damage ult spits in the face of the defensive meta that exists. He's vulnerable to kiting, but should he be able to engage when he wants things usually go his way.
Teemo's mushrooms are great on speed shrines, health relics, and towers. AP Teemo's poke and speed make him a good candidate for hit and chipping away at people's health. His blind is extremely useful given the dominance of AD champs. AD champs seem to reign supreme due to their ability to survive. Many AP champs are fragile and easily killed. It's also much easier to build defensively with AD than AP. Champions like Brand, Morgana, LeBlanc, and Veigar see a little bit of play, but die a lot. Veigar has a lot of untapped potential, but no player has shown a clear mastery of his control with him yet that I've seen. His margin for error is almost nonexistent, but when played well can be competitive. The same can be said of most AP champions actually, but one mistake is very costly whereas with many AD champs it will be ok.
Global shot champs Ezreal and Ashe perform ok. They are too strong or too weak and fit solidly in the middle. Ezreal is a little more popular because arcane shft is awesome and ashe's slow is nice, but almost everyone AD frozen mallet if not Trinity Force. Gangplank and Karthus almost never see game time for reasons unclear to me. Perhaps Karthus suffers from the defensive meta and Gangplank is CC bait and easily exhausted away.
I'm sure there's a lot more that I missed, but it's nice to see some of the September era posts foretell the future. NonY's post about Yorick being a dominant bot lane was spot on and another poster's mention of Revive also had great foresight. There's a small but dedicated competitive scene for dominion and my thoughts in this post come from having observed that for several months.
I might be able to address a few recent posts too. High mobility champs are countered with a lot of heavy delay. The advantage of mobility is their prompt arrival at other points. Due to players building more survivability those highly mobile champs often get delayed long enough that their benefit is lost as reinforcements arrive to deter them. Bottom lane really dictates the course of the game. Windmill is definitely the point of contest unless something happens bottom lane and often a team will make something happen bottom lane for that very reason. Bottom lane supports the entire game. A "standard" game of dominion only takes place when bottom is consistent. If the two bottom champs go 0/0/0, but neither loses a tower then it's completely fine. Decisive tactical decisions win games. The window to execute strategy is small and has to be seized upon quickly. There may be barely enough time after winning a fight to neutral a point that the enemy team owns. Knowing when it's safe to make a play for a point after a team fight is a key thing to learn. Additionally knowing whether you have time to neutral or fully cap is also important. Getting a sense of timing will really improve a player's effectiveness on the map. It's easy to turn a game around through tight execution in fights and being situationally aware. Losing a fight isn't crippling however because kills aren't worth too significant an amount of gold or XP. Time is the most valuable resource in dominion and timing is what makes things happen. The acute sense of where to strike has a major importance and being able to arrange where engagements happen based on which point you attack or where you reveal yourselves on the map has a dramatic effect on the outcome.
i dont play dominion much, and the SEA scene isn't great, but my team and i have won the past 2 dominion tourneys here so i guess that must count for a little (:
time is indeed a key resource in dominion. i always tell my team that no matter what you do, you cannot be wasting time. walking around doing nothing = wasting time . engaging an enemy champion 1v1 = evens out (except when you're on less capped) . engaging 1v2 and wasting their time = net gain in time. small things like that. never be walking around doing nothing. always be sieging an enemy structure, threatening a backdoor, or outright raping enemy champs
another thing to note is 'tempo', in the form of defending vs attacking. tempo + time is the reason why revive is so important.if you go into the initial 3v3 fight at top without revives, you're risking a lot more than if you had revive. revive gives you that upper hand / safety net to retain your winning position.
some champs obviously do better defending, while others are better at attacking. the key to both (imo) is range and to a smaller extent, mobility.
On June 03 2012 21:19 nyxnyxnyx wrote: nice post sir
i dont play dominion much, and the SEA scene isn't great, but my team and i have won the past 2 dominion tourneys here so i guess that must count for a little (:
time is indeed a key resource in dominion. i always tell my team that no matter what you do, you cannot be wasting time. walking around doing nothing = wasting time . engaging an enemy champion 1v1 = evens out (except when you're on less capped) . engaging 1v2 and wasting their time = net gain in time. small things like that. never be walking around doing nothing. always be sieging an enemy structure, threatening a backdoor, or outright raping enemy champs
another thing to note is 'tempo', in the form of defending vs attacking. tempo + time is the reason why revive is so important.if you go into the initial 3v3 fight at top without revives, you're risking a lot more than if you had revive. revive gives you that upper hand / safety net to retain your winning position.
some champs obviously do better defending, while others are better at attacking. the key to both (imo) is range and to a smaller extent, mobility.
Are there VODs from the tournies you've played in? I'm collecting info from broadcast dominion games. Right now I know of Devastation Lan 2011, NESL's Conflict on the Crystal Scar, and DominateDominion's tournaments. I'd love to watch your games if they're online somewhere.
Hell if anyone knows where I can find VODs or brackets from dominion tournaments that have been broadcast I'd love to know where to find them.
Btw, Nunu is a good counterpick to Yorick. Karma is amazing bot or top. Kitae's Bloodrazor is pretty good for its cost. Champs with % armor reduction are good for breaking beeftanks that are stalling for time.
When Darius came out everyone cried OP. Now people just cc or kite him like all the other dangerous ADs. If you play him assassin style and wait to come in and ult someone he can get bad if used as fight cleanup. Haven't seen much Draven though. He seems like standard ranged AD.
EPT
Question: if you were playing an AP and started with xx% free magic pen, would you feel that could potentially fix the problem for you?![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/9KXq9.jpg)
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