• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 16:41
CEST 22:41
KST 05:41
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL21] Ro24 Preview Pt2: News Flash6[ASL21] Ro24 Preview Pt1: New Chaos0Team Liquid Map Contest #22 - Presented by Monster Energy11ByuL: The Forgotten Master of ZvT30Behind the Blue - Team Liquid History Book20
Community News
Weekly Cups (March 16-22): herO doubles, Cure surprises3Blizzard Classic Cup @ BlizzCon 2026 - $100k prize pool49Weekly Cups (March 9-15): herO, Clem, ByuN win42026 KungFu Cup Announcement6BGE Stara Zagora 2026 cancelled12
StarCraft 2
General
What mix of new & old maps do you want in the next ladder pool? (SC2) Team Liquid Map Contest #22 - Presented by Monster Energy herO wins SC2 All-Star Invitational Blizzard Classic Cup @ BlizzCon 2026 - $100k prize pool Potential Updates Coming to the SC2 CN Server
Tourneys
RSL Season 4 announced for March-April Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament StarCraft Evolution League (SC Evo Biweekly) WardiTV Mondays World University TeamLeague (500$+) | Signups Open
Strategy
Custom Maps
[M] (2) Frigid Storage Publishing has been re-enabled! [Feb 24th 2026]
External Content
Mutation # 519 Inner Power The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 518 Radiation Zone Mutation # 517 Distant Threat
Brood War
General
BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ [ASL21] Ro24 Preview Pt2: News Flash Pros React To: SoulKey vs Ample ASL21 General Discussion RepMastered™: replay sharing and analyzer site
Tourneys
[ASL21] Ro24 Group D [ASL21] Ro24 Group C [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [ASL21] Ro24 Group B
Strategy
What's the deal with APM & what's its true value Fighting Spirit mining rates Simple Questions, Simple Answers
Other Games
General Games
Starcraft Tabletop Miniature Game Nintendo Switch Thread General RTS Discussion Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Darkest Dungeon
Dota 2
The Story of Wings Gaming Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
G2 just beat GenG in First stand
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Five o'clock TL Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine US Politics Mega-thread The Games Industry And ATVI European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
The IdrA Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books Movie Discussion!
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion Cricket [SPORT] Tokyo Olympics 2021 Thread General nutrition recommendations
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
[G] How to Block Livestream Ads
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Funny Nicknames
LUCKY_NOOB
Money Laundering In Video Ga…
TrAiDoS
Iranian anarchists: organize…
XenOsky
FS++
Kraekkling
Shocked by a laser…
Spydermine0240
ASL S21 English Commentary…
namkraft
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1603 users

[Discussion] Patch Notes - Page 16

Forum Index > LoL General
Post a Reply
Prev 1 14 15 16 17 18 118 Next
ZERG_RUSSIAN
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
10417 Posts
December 14 2010 18:32 GMT
#301
Shit, okay, I didn't read that well. I still don't think his passive was why he was amazing in lane. It sure helped but it just means that you can't be like "fuck you I'm gonna farm this whole wave while taking 0 damage." I still think he's going to be strong, and we'll see how the rupture change affects it--I know I'm still happy about it, even if it isn't the 1k range OPness it used to be.
I'm on GOLD CHAIN
Brees
Profile Joined January 2010
Marshall Islands3404 Posts
December 14 2010 18:59 GMT
#302
really surprised im the only one that thinks its a huge kat nerf, kids are talking about building gunblade on her LOL....the only way she was viable was AP/tank hybrid. you can't build tanky anymore if you want damage. riot is fucking bad at this game.
Brees on in
Kaniol
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
Poland5551 Posts
December 14 2010 19:02 GMT
#303
New global tower gold: 150, new global dragon gold: 240
myopia
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
United States2928 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-12-14 19:05:46
December 14 2010 19:05 GMT
#304
Brees you're confusing me

Katarina

* Bouncing Blades
o Now scales off of 80% bonus attack damage (instead of 100% of all attack damage)
o Base damage increased to 60/95/130/165/200
o Now has a 0.35 ability power ratio
* Death Lotus
o Base damage decreased to 40/50/60 from 50/65/80
o Now scales off of both attack damage and ability power rather than one or the other
o Now hits the closest 3 targets rather than 3 random targets
o Cooldown reduced to 60/55/50 seconds from 60


Her AP ratios haven't been reduced at all? How is she not viable as an AP/Tank hybrid anymore? I haven't done the math behind her Q damage but if you're going AP it looks like it'll do just as much as it ever did if you weren't going AD.

oh wait there's a base damage decrease on Lotus... hm
it's my first day
Mogwai
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United States13274 Posts
December 14 2010 19:06 GMT
#305
her ult's base damage got shat on.

-20% at level 1, -25% at level 3.
mogwaismusings.wordpress.com
Seuss
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States10536 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-12-14 19:12:25
December 14 2010 19:10 GMT
#306
On December 15 2010 03:59 Brees wrote:
really surprised im the only one that thinks its a huge kat nerf, kids are talking about building gunblade on her LOL....the only way she was viable was AP/tank hybrid. you can't build tanky anymore if you want damage. riot is fucking bad at this game.


Edit: Beaten by myopia.

Edit2: I missed the Death Lotus damage reduction. Was too busy staring at the AND.

Gunblade on Kat strikes me as a fun troll build.
"I am not able to carry all this people alone, for they are too heavy for me." -Moses (Numbers 11:14)
Drathmar
Profile Joined September 2010
United States160 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-12-14 19:12:57
December 14 2010 19:10 GMT
#307
And? It was too strong on AP kat. When I was able to do 2k damage before reduction to 3 people with AP build and still be pretty tanky.. there's a problem.

Also, the fact that BB now scales with a pure AP build makes up for it in a way. Remember BB had no AP ratio before, at all.

"you're just neural parasited by a retarded infestor" - day[9]
Mogwai
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United States13274 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-12-14 19:11:24
December 14 2010 19:10 GMT
#308
DL got raped on base damage, l2read


On December 15 2010 04:10 Drathmar wrote:
And? It was too strong on AP kat. When I was able to do 2k damage before reduction to 3 people with AP build and still be pretty tanky.. there's a problem.

It's a channel, it was far from too strong.
mogwaismusings.wordpress.com
Zato-1
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
Chile4253 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-12-14 19:21:05
December 14 2010 19:13 GMT
#309
On December 15 2010 01:52 Mogwai wrote:
garen's level 1 damage output is lower.

it used to be 30 + 70% of his AD (60 * 0.7 = 42) = 72. With it scaling off of just bonus AD now, the net effect is a nerf to his low level damage.

This is correct. Reducing his spin damage per second from 72 to 60 reduces his total Judgment damage from 216 to 180.

On December 15 2010 01:52 Mogwai wrote:
Garen is officially DEAD. The character took it directly in the ass this patch, he's 100% useless since you now need to build offensive items on a character with absolutely nothing with any range. Seriously, he's lower than Urgot tier IMO after this patch.

Uh. 180 damage at level 1, using 1 skill, is still a lot more than most champions can dish out. Paired up with Taric (or someone else who can stun), Garen should still be a decent champion for duo lanes.

On December 15 2010 03:15 Mogwai wrote:
shut up and face it, the character is fucking dead. In order to do as much damage as old garen with no AD items, new level 18 garen needs to have... let's see...

I don't feel like looking anything new up, so let's say he has 100 base AD at level 18.

So old Garen did 95+35 = 130/0.5 seconds = 260/second. New Garen does 180/second. New Garen needs 80 AD just to catch up. If old Garen had built AD (which was rejected for sucking ass because then you just fucking die), you'd need to have 240 AD for new Garen to catch up to old AD Garen in terms of spin damage output.

It's closer to 290 AD for new Garen to catch up, because his base AD at level 18 is 112. Adding Decisive Strike to the equation:
+ Show Spoiler [maths] +
With no AD:

Old Garen would Decisive Strike for 120+112, then Judgment for 268*3 for a total of 1036 damage.

New Garen would Decisive Strike for 90+112*1.2, then Judgment for 180*3 for a total of 764 damage (~26% damage decrease).

With 247 AD:

Old Garen would Decisive Strike for 120+112+247, then Judgment for (268+247*0.7)*3 for a total of 1802 damage.

New Garen would Decisive Strike for 90+(112+247)*1.2, then Judgment for (180+247)*3 for a total of 1802 damage.


So yeah, new break-even point would be 247 AD if you count Decisive Strike.

On December 15 2010 03:15 Mogwai wrote:
HE
IS
FUCKING
DEAD

Well, tank Garen's been hit hard by this patch; Sunfires are more expensive and no longer stack, his level 1 damage output (with no AD) dropped by ~17%, and his level 18 damage output (again with no AD) dropped by ~26%.

Maybe with all the nerfs to ranged carries lately, melee DPS will find a new home in LoL, Garen included. Maybe.

Otherwise... yeah, this looks like a bad day for the Demacian figurehead.
Go here http://vina.biobiochile.cl/ and input the Konami Code (up up down down left right left right B A)
Drathmar
Profile Joined September 2010
United States160 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-12-14 19:17:18
December 14 2010 19:15 GMT
#310
On December 15 2010 04:10 Mogwai wrote:
DL got raped on base damage, l2read


Show nested quote +
On December 15 2010 04:10 Drathmar wrote:
And? It was too strong on AP kat. When I was able to do 2k damage before reduction to 3 people with AP build and still be pretty tanky.. there's a problem.

It's a channel, it was far from too strong.


DL I think is actually better now

One, your AP ratio part stays the same, yes its base damage got nerfed but... it adds attack damage into it ALONG with AP NOT instead of. And it didn't say bonus attack damage either it said attack damage. Which even without building AD should make up for at least part if not all of the base damage reduction. If you build mostly AP with one hybrid item it will be better than before.

BB is also much much better now, and I think she will be a very very good poker with it now, since it will do considerably more damage than before now plus has a 50% healing reduction.
"you're just neural parasited by a retarded infestor" - day[9]
r33k
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
Italy3402 Posts
December 14 2010 19:18 GMT
#311
I wonder how long it will take for the patch notes OP to reach -1k...
Seuss
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States10536 Posts
December 14 2010 19:18 GMT
#312
Didn't DL previously only draw from bonus AD? It would be something of a shift for it to now utilitize all AD. I don't play Kat often so I'm not entirely sure.
"I am not able to carry all this people alone, for they are too heavy for me." -Moses (Numbers 11:14)
Mogwai
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United States13274 Posts
December 14 2010 19:19 GMT
#313
The issue is that outside of judgement, what does Garen bring to the table as a Melee DPS? Why in god's name would I pick him as my melee dps over pantheon, yi, trynd, xin, trundle, tigerbearturtle udyr, DPS Malphite, Warwick, Jax, or DPS Evelynn? Maybe if they rebuffed courage so that he could live a little while without tanking items and then upped the judgement scaling to something like 80/90/100/110/120%/second he could bring something to the table, but as is, he's really bad.
mogwaismusings.wordpress.com
Frolossus
Profile Joined February 2010
United States4779 Posts
December 14 2010 19:21 GMT
#314
On December 15 2010 04:15 Drathmar wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 15 2010 04:10 Mogwai wrote:
DL got raped on base damage, l2read


On December 15 2010 04:10 Drathmar wrote:
And? It was too strong on AP kat. When I was able to do 2k damage before reduction to 3 people with AP build and still be pretty tanky.. there's a problem.

It's a channel, it was far from too strong.


DL I think is actually better now

One, your AP ratio part stays the same, yes its base damage got nerfed but... it adds attack damage into it ALONG with AP NOT instead of. And it didn't say bonus attack damage either it said attack damage. Which even without building AD should make up for at least part if not all of the base damage reduction. If you build mostly AP with one hybrid item it will be better than before.

BB is also much much better now, and I think she will be a very very good poker with it now, since it will do considerably more damage than before now plus has a 50% healing reduction.

lotus sucks now, the reason it had such high damage was because it was easy to cancel
BB did get a mid/late game buff but its not incredibly useful or anything.
Mogwai
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United States13274 Posts
December 14 2010 19:21 GMT
#315
On December 15 2010 04:15 Drathmar wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 15 2010 04:10 Mogwai wrote:
DL got raped on base damage, l2read


On December 15 2010 04:10 Drathmar wrote:
And? It was too strong on AP kat. When I was able to do 2k damage before reduction to 3 people with AP build and still be pretty tanky.. there's a problem.

It's a channel, it was far from too strong.


DL I think is actually better now

One, your AP ratio part stays the same, yes its base damage got nerfed but... it adds attack damage into it ALONG with AP NOT instead of. And it didn't say bonus attack damage either it said attack damage. Which even without building AD should make up for at least part if not all of the base damage reduction. If you build mostly AP with one hybrid item it will be better than before.

BB is also much much better now, and I think she will be a very very good poker with it now, since it will do considerably more damage than before now plus has a 50% healing reduction.

On December 15 2010 04:18 Seuss wrote:
Didn't DL previously only draw from bonus AD? It would be something of a shift for it to now utilitize all AD. I don't play Kat often so I'm not entirely sure.

I suppose I don't actually have confirmation of this but I assume since they didn't specifically address it that it still is only talking about bonus AD. If it uses all AD (which I highly doubt, again, someone confirm that I'm right), it was a gigantic buff.
mogwaismusings.wordpress.com
Drathmar
Profile Joined September 2010
United States160 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-12-14 19:24:36
December 14 2010 19:21 GMT
#316
On December 15 2010 04:18 Seuss wrote:
Didn't DL previously only draw from bonus AD? It would be something of a shift for it to now utilitize all AD. I don't play Kat often so I'm not entirely sure.


IIRC no, cause I never bought AD on her but it still had a value for the orange number in the ult when i played her (its been like a week or more so Im not 100% on this but I am pretty sure).

Even if it is only bonus AD, its not that much of a nerf for kat overall. BB is still better than before, ya it doesn't scale off her AD anymore but it does have an AP scale, even low, which should make up for it and increase its damage lategame, and for most of a teamfight and before BB is better than DL until they blow their stuns.
"you're just neural parasited by a retarded infestor" - day[9]
Blitzkrieg0
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States13132 Posts
December 14 2010 19:24 GMT
#317
On December 15 2010 04:02 Kaniol wrote:
New global tower gold: 150, new global dragon gold: 240


There goes my carrying games strategy out the window. Once everybody is ahead a level or two the game goes much smoother, but that just won't be possible anymore ^_^ Items don't give enough of an advantage to carry the game when people can still make sub-optimal choices. Wanting to buy global exp back

With the huge nerfs to attack speed regarding last whisper and green pots I wonder what else Riot can do to nerf the ranged deeps ^_^
I'll always be your shadow and veil your eyes from states of ain soph aur.
Ryuu314
Profile Joined October 2009
United States12679 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-12-14 19:26:17
December 14 2010 19:25 GMT
#318
Rofl...it's almost like Riot starting learning from Blizzard on how to balance games xP

But on a more srs note...HOLY crap. So many pointless nerfs on...everything. LW change makes absolutely no sense imo...Then again...ugot buff? Really? Urgot needs a remake if anything imo lol
xDaunt
Profile Joined March 2010
United States17988 Posts
December 14 2010 19:35 GMT
#319
On December 15 2010 04:25 Ryuu314 wrote:
Rofl...it's almost like Riot starting learning from Blizzard on how to balance games xP

But on a more srs note...HOLY crap. So many pointless nerfs on...everything. LW change makes absolutely no sense imo...Then again...ugot buff? Really? Urgot needs a remake if anything imo lol


I like the LW change. It makes melee DPS characters more viable relative to ranged DPS.
Southlight
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
United States11768 Posts
December 14 2010 19:38 GMT
#320
On December 15 2010 03:59 Brees wrote:
really surprised im the only one that thinks its a huge kat nerf, kids are talking about building gunblade on her LOL....the only way she was viable was AP/tank hybrid. you can't build tanky anymore if you want damage. riot is fucking bad at this game.


I agree, Brees, I laid it out to Ecael last night, too.
They killed BB's early game (60 damage nerf jesus).
Who the hell builds hybrid on Kat anyways. Gunblade? You get like 80% of the damage (amounts to like 48) and like, what, 30% of the AP (so you get another 27ish) for a whopping total of...

... whoops it's less than Bloodthirster.

Right.

So the real "buff" is that you can stack BTs and get a Rylai to get the slow effect.

Whoopdeefuckingdoo.

... was it worth the base damage decrease on her ult
and the absolute murder of her early game?

BUFF!
oraoraoraoraoraoraoraora
Prev 1 14 15 16 17 18 118 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Monday Night Weeklies
16:00
#46
RotterdaM1376
TKL 452
SteadfastSC234
IndyStarCraft 184
BRAT_OK 142
EnkiAlexander 53
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
RotterdaM 1376
TKL 452
SteadfastSC 234
IndyStarCraft 184
BRAT_OK 142
Hui .110
UpATreeSC 94
StarCraft: Brood War
Calm 2768
ggaemo 220
Dewaltoss 122
Shine 16
Bale 6
Dota 2
monkeys_forever248
elazer40
Counter-Strike
pashabiceps2489
byalli313
Heroes of the Storm
Liquid`Hasu573
Other Games
summit1g6455
Grubby3261
KnowMe214
shahzam180
C9.Mang0158
Trikslyr59
ZombieGrub33
Organizations
Other Games
BasetradeTV131
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 16 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• kabyraGe 182
• IndyKCrew
• sooper7s
• Migwel
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• intothetv
• Kozan
StarCraft: Brood War
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• masondota21272
• WagamamaTV1175
• lizZardDota269
League of Legends
• TFBlade1272
Other Games
• imaqtpie1365
Upcoming Events
Replay Cast
3h 19m
Sparkling Tuna Cup
13h 19m
Afreeca Starleague
13h 19m
Rush vs PianO
Flash vs Speed
PiGosaur Cup
1d 3h
Replay Cast
1d 12h
Afreeca Starleague
1d 13h
BeSt vs Leta
Queen vs Jaedong
Replay Cast
2 days
The PondCast
2 days
OSC
3 days
RSL Revival
3 days
TriGGeR vs Cure
ByuN vs Rogue
[ Show More ]
Replay Cast
4 days
RSL Revival
4 days
Maru vs MaxPax
BSL
4 days
RSL Revival
5 days
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
5 days
BSL
5 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

2026 Changsha Offline CUP
WardiTV Winter 2026
NationLESS Cup

Ongoing

BSL Season 22
CSL Elite League 2026
CSL Season 20: Qualifier 1
ASL Season 21
Acropolis #4 - TS6
StarCraft2 Community Team League 2026 Spring
RSL Revival: Season 4
Nations Cup 2026
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League S23 Finals
ESL Pro League S23 Stage 1&2
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual

Upcoming

CSL Season 20: Qualifier 2
Escore Tournament S2: W1
CSL 2026 SPRING (S20)
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
BSL 22 Non-Korean Championship
CSLAN 4
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
HSC XXIX
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
CCT Season 3 Global Finals
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.