• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 22:43
CEST 04:43
KST 11:43
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
TL.net Map Contest #22 - Voting & Ladder Map Selection2Code S Season 2 (2026) - RO8 Preview5[ASL21] Finals Preview: Two Legacies21Code S Season 2 (2026) - RO12 Preview2herO wins GSL Code S Season 1 (2026)7
Community News
[BSL22] Non-Korean Championship from 13 to 28 June0Weekly Cups (May 25-31): Clem doubles, 2v2 circuit heads toward finale0StarCraft II 5.0.16 PTR Patch Notes may 26th150Weekly Cups (May 18-24): MaxPax wins doubles0Crank Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League6
StarCraft 2
General
The Death of Cheese: From a Professional Cheeser Valorant Anti-Cheat: New Measures Against Unfair My starcraft 2 changes StarCraft II 5.0.16 PTR Patch Notes may 26th Oliveira Would Have Returned If EWC Continued
Tourneys
Maestros of The Game 2 announcement and schedule ! Crank Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League GSL Code S Season 2 (2026) Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament RSL Revival: Season 5 - Qualifiers and Main Event
Strategy
[G] Having the right mentality to improve
Custom Maps
[D]RTS in all its shapes and glory <3
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 528 Infection Detected Welcome to the External Content forum Mutation # 527 Hell Train
Brood War
General
FlaSh's ASL S21 Finals Review BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Tesagi Viewer - A new era of replay watching 14k games analyzed: Cross Spawn Nexus first good? VPN experiences
Tourneys
[ASL21] Grand Finals [BSL22] Grand Finals - Sunday 21:00 CEST [Megathread] Daily Proleagues Escore Tournament StarCraft Season 2
Strategy
Why doesn't anyone use restoration? Any training maps people recommend? Muta micro map competition [G] Hydra ZvZ: An Introduction
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne Path of Exile Nintendo Switch Thread ZeroSpace Megathread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas TL Mafia Community Thread Five o'clock TL Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread How cold is too cold to be outdoors? Dating: How's your luck? Trading/Investing Thread
Fan Clubs
The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread McBoner: A hockey love story TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread Facing Challenges in Mobile App Development
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Esportsmanship: How to NOT B…
TrAiDoS
Why RTS gamers make better f…
gosubay
ramps on octagon
StaticNine
ASL S21 English Commentary…
namkraft
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 3443 users

[Discussion] Patch Notes - Page 16

Forum Index > LoL General
Post a Reply
Prev 1 14 15 16 17 18 118 Next
ZERG_RUSSIAN
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
10417 Posts
December 14 2010 18:32 GMT
#301
Shit, okay, I didn't read that well. I still don't think his passive was why he was amazing in lane. It sure helped but it just means that you can't be like "fuck you I'm gonna farm this whole wave while taking 0 damage." I still think he's going to be strong, and we'll see how the rupture change affects it--I know I'm still happy about it, even if it isn't the 1k range OPness it used to be.
I'm on GOLD CHAIN
Brees
Profile Joined January 2010
Marshall Islands3404 Posts
December 14 2010 18:59 GMT
#302
really surprised im the only one that thinks its a huge kat nerf, kids are talking about building gunblade on her LOL....the only way she was viable was AP/tank hybrid. you can't build tanky anymore if you want damage. riot is fucking bad at this game.
Brees on in
Kaniol
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
Poland5551 Posts
December 14 2010 19:02 GMT
#303
New global tower gold: 150, new global dragon gold: 240
myopia
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
United States2928 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-12-14 19:05:46
December 14 2010 19:05 GMT
#304
Brees you're confusing me

Katarina

* Bouncing Blades
o Now scales off of 80% bonus attack damage (instead of 100% of all attack damage)
o Base damage increased to 60/95/130/165/200
o Now has a 0.35 ability power ratio
* Death Lotus
o Base damage decreased to 40/50/60 from 50/65/80
o Now scales off of both attack damage and ability power rather than one or the other
o Now hits the closest 3 targets rather than 3 random targets
o Cooldown reduced to 60/55/50 seconds from 60


Her AP ratios haven't been reduced at all? How is she not viable as an AP/Tank hybrid anymore? I haven't done the math behind her Q damage but if you're going AP it looks like it'll do just as much as it ever did if you weren't going AD.

oh wait there's a base damage decrease on Lotus... hm
it's my first day
Mogwai
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United States13274 Posts
December 14 2010 19:06 GMT
#305
her ult's base damage got shat on.

-20% at level 1, -25% at level 3.
mogwaismusings.wordpress.com
Seuss
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States10536 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-12-14 19:12:25
December 14 2010 19:10 GMT
#306
On December 15 2010 03:59 Brees wrote:
really surprised im the only one that thinks its a huge kat nerf, kids are talking about building gunblade on her LOL....the only way she was viable was AP/tank hybrid. you can't build tanky anymore if you want damage. riot is fucking bad at this game.


Edit: Beaten by myopia.

Edit2: I missed the Death Lotus damage reduction. Was too busy staring at the AND.

Gunblade on Kat strikes me as a fun troll build.
"I am not able to carry all this people alone, for they are too heavy for me." -Moses (Numbers 11:14)
Drathmar
Profile Joined September 2010
United States160 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-12-14 19:12:57
December 14 2010 19:10 GMT
#307
And? It was too strong on AP kat. When I was able to do 2k damage before reduction to 3 people with AP build and still be pretty tanky.. there's a problem.

Also, the fact that BB now scales with a pure AP build makes up for it in a way. Remember BB had no AP ratio before, at all.

"you're just neural parasited by a retarded infestor" - day[9]
Mogwai
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United States13274 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-12-14 19:11:24
December 14 2010 19:10 GMT
#308
DL got raped on base damage, l2read


On December 15 2010 04:10 Drathmar wrote:
And? It was too strong on AP kat. When I was able to do 2k damage before reduction to 3 people with AP build and still be pretty tanky.. there's a problem.

It's a channel, it was far from too strong.
mogwaismusings.wordpress.com
Zato-1
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
Chile4253 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-12-14 19:21:05
December 14 2010 19:13 GMT
#309
On December 15 2010 01:52 Mogwai wrote:
garen's level 1 damage output is lower.

it used to be 30 + 70% of his AD (60 * 0.7 = 42) = 72. With it scaling off of just bonus AD now, the net effect is a nerf to his low level damage.

This is correct. Reducing his spin damage per second from 72 to 60 reduces his total Judgment damage from 216 to 180.

On December 15 2010 01:52 Mogwai wrote:
Garen is officially DEAD. The character took it directly in the ass this patch, he's 100% useless since you now need to build offensive items on a character with absolutely nothing with any range. Seriously, he's lower than Urgot tier IMO after this patch.

Uh. 180 damage at level 1, using 1 skill, is still a lot more than most champions can dish out. Paired up with Taric (or someone else who can stun), Garen should still be a decent champion for duo lanes.

On December 15 2010 03:15 Mogwai wrote:
shut up and face it, the character is fucking dead. In order to do as much damage as old garen with no AD items, new level 18 garen needs to have... let's see...

I don't feel like looking anything new up, so let's say he has 100 base AD at level 18.

So old Garen did 95+35 = 130/0.5 seconds = 260/second. New Garen does 180/second. New Garen needs 80 AD just to catch up. If old Garen had built AD (which was rejected for sucking ass because then you just fucking die), you'd need to have 240 AD for new Garen to catch up to old AD Garen in terms of spin damage output.

It's closer to 290 AD for new Garen to catch up, because his base AD at level 18 is 112. Adding Decisive Strike to the equation:
+ Show Spoiler [maths] +
With no AD:

Old Garen would Decisive Strike for 120+112, then Judgment for 268*3 for a total of 1036 damage.

New Garen would Decisive Strike for 90+112*1.2, then Judgment for 180*3 for a total of 764 damage (~26% damage decrease).

With 247 AD:

Old Garen would Decisive Strike for 120+112+247, then Judgment for (268+247*0.7)*3 for a total of 1802 damage.

New Garen would Decisive Strike for 90+(112+247)*1.2, then Judgment for (180+247)*3 for a total of 1802 damage.


So yeah, new break-even point would be 247 AD if you count Decisive Strike.

On December 15 2010 03:15 Mogwai wrote:
HE
IS
FUCKING
DEAD

Well, tank Garen's been hit hard by this patch; Sunfires are more expensive and no longer stack, his level 1 damage output (with no AD) dropped by ~17%, and his level 18 damage output (again with no AD) dropped by ~26%.

Maybe with all the nerfs to ranged carries lately, melee DPS will find a new home in LoL, Garen included. Maybe.

Otherwise... yeah, this looks like a bad day for the Demacian figurehead.
Go here http://vina.biobiochile.cl/ and input the Konami Code (up up down down left right left right B A)
Drathmar
Profile Joined September 2010
United States160 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-12-14 19:17:18
December 14 2010 19:15 GMT
#310
On December 15 2010 04:10 Mogwai wrote:
DL got raped on base damage, l2read


Show nested quote +
On December 15 2010 04:10 Drathmar wrote:
And? It was too strong on AP kat. When I was able to do 2k damage before reduction to 3 people with AP build and still be pretty tanky.. there's a problem.

It's a channel, it was far from too strong.


DL I think is actually better now

One, your AP ratio part stays the same, yes its base damage got nerfed but... it adds attack damage into it ALONG with AP NOT instead of. And it didn't say bonus attack damage either it said attack damage. Which even without building AD should make up for at least part if not all of the base damage reduction. If you build mostly AP with one hybrid item it will be better than before.

BB is also much much better now, and I think she will be a very very good poker with it now, since it will do considerably more damage than before now plus has a 50% healing reduction.
"you're just neural parasited by a retarded infestor" - day[9]
r33k
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
Italy3402 Posts
December 14 2010 19:18 GMT
#311
I wonder how long it will take for the patch notes OP to reach -1k...
Seuss
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States10536 Posts
December 14 2010 19:18 GMT
#312
Didn't DL previously only draw from bonus AD? It would be something of a shift for it to now utilitize all AD. I don't play Kat often so I'm not entirely sure.
"I am not able to carry all this people alone, for they are too heavy for me." -Moses (Numbers 11:14)
Mogwai
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United States13274 Posts
December 14 2010 19:19 GMT
#313
The issue is that outside of judgement, what does Garen bring to the table as a Melee DPS? Why in god's name would I pick him as my melee dps over pantheon, yi, trynd, xin, trundle, tigerbearturtle udyr, DPS Malphite, Warwick, Jax, or DPS Evelynn? Maybe if they rebuffed courage so that he could live a little while without tanking items and then upped the judgement scaling to something like 80/90/100/110/120%/second he could bring something to the table, but as is, he's really bad.
mogwaismusings.wordpress.com
Frolossus
Profile Joined February 2010
United States4779 Posts
December 14 2010 19:21 GMT
#314
On December 15 2010 04:15 Drathmar wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 15 2010 04:10 Mogwai wrote:
DL got raped on base damage, l2read


On December 15 2010 04:10 Drathmar wrote:
And? It was too strong on AP kat. When I was able to do 2k damage before reduction to 3 people with AP build and still be pretty tanky.. there's a problem.

It's a channel, it was far from too strong.


DL I think is actually better now

One, your AP ratio part stays the same, yes its base damage got nerfed but... it adds attack damage into it ALONG with AP NOT instead of. And it didn't say bonus attack damage either it said attack damage. Which even without building AD should make up for at least part if not all of the base damage reduction. If you build mostly AP with one hybrid item it will be better than before.

BB is also much much better now, and I think she will be a very very good poker with it now, since it will do considerably more damage than before now plus has a 50% healing reduction.

lotus sucks now, the reason it had such high damage was because it was easy to cancel
BB did get a mid/late game buff but its not incredibly useful or anything.
Mogwai
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United States13274 Posts
December 14 2010 19:21 GMT
#315
On December 15 2010 04:15 Drathmar wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 15 2010 04:10 Mogwai wrote:
DL got raped on base damage, l2read


On December 15 2010 04:10 Drathmar wrote:
And? It was too strong on AP kat. When I was able to do 2k damage before reduction to 3 people with AP build and still be pretty tanky.. there's a problem.

It's a channel, it was far from too strong.


DL I think is actually better now

One, your AP ratio part stays the same, yes its base damage got nerfed but... it adds attack damage into it ALONG with AP NOT instead of. And it didn't say bonus attack damage either it said attack damage. Which even without building AD should make up for at least part if not all of the base damage reduction. If you build mostly AP with one hybrid item it will be better than before.

BB is also much much better now, and I think she will be a very very good poker with it now, since it will do considerably more damage than before now plus has a 50% healing reduction.

On December 15 2010 04:18 Seuss wrote:
Didn't DL previously only draw from bonus AD? It would be something of a shift for it to now utilitize all AD. I don't play Kat often so I'm not entirely sure.

I suppose I don't actually have confirmation of this but I assume since they didn't specifically address it that it still is only talking about bonus AD. If it uses all AD (which I highly doubt, again, someone confirm that I'm right), it was a gigantic buff.
mogwaismusings.wordpress.com
Drathmar
Profile Joined September 2010
United States160 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-12-14 19:24:36
December 14 2010 19:21 GMT
#316
On December 15 2010 04:18 Seuss wrote:
Didn't DL previously only draw from bonus AD? It would be something of a shift for it to now utilitize all AD. I don't play Kat often so I'm not entirely sure.


IIRC no, cause I never bought AD on her but it still had a value for the orange number in the ult when i played her (its been like a week or more so Im not 100% on this but I am pretty sure).

Even if it is only bonus AD, its not that much of a nerf for kat overall. BB is still better than before, ya it doesn't scale off her AD anymore but it does have an AP scale, even low, which should make up for it and increase its damage lategame, and for most of a teamfight and before BB is better than DL until they blow their stuns.
"you're just neural parasited by a retarded infestor" - day[9]
Blitzkrieg0
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States13132 Posts
December 14 2010 19:24 GMT
#317
On December 15 2010 04:02 Kaniol wrote:
New global tower gold: 150, new global dragon gold: 240


There goes my carrying games strategy out the window. Once everybody is ahead a level or two the game goes much smoother, but that just won't be possible anymore ^_^ Items don't give enough of an advantage to carry the game when people can still make sub-optimal choices. Wanting to buy global exp back

With the huge nerfs to attack speed regarding last whisper and green pots I wonder what else Riot can do to nerf the ranged deeps ^_^
I'll always be your shadow and veil your eyes from states of ain soph aur.
Ryuu314
Profile Joined October 2009
United States12679 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-12-14 19:26:17
December 14 2010 19:25 GMT
#318
Rofl...it's almost like Riot starting learning from Blizzard on how to balance games xP

But on a more srs note...HOLY crap. So many pointless nerfs on...everything. LW change makes absolutely no sense imo...Then again...ugot buff? Really? Urgot needs a remake if anything imo lol
xDaunt
Profile Joined March 2010
United States17988 Posts
December 14 2010 19:35 GMT
#319
On December 15 2010 04:25 Ryuu314 wrote:
Rofl...it's almost like Riot starting learning from Blizzard on how to balance games xP

But on a more srs note...HOLY crap. So many pointless nerfs on...everything. LW change makes absolutely no sense imo...Then again...ugot buff? Really? Urgot needs a remake if anything imo lol


I like the LW change. It makes melee DPS characters more viable relative to ranged DPS.
Southlight
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
United States11768 Posts
December 14 2010 19:38 GMT
#320
On December 15 2010 03:59 Brees wrote:
really surprised im the only one that thinks its a huge kat nerf, kids are talking about building gunblade on her LOL....the only way she was viable was AP/tank hybrid. you can't build tanky anymore if you want damage. riot is fucking bad at this game.


I agree, Brees, I laid it out to Ecael last night, too.
They killed BB's early game (60 damage nerf jesus).
Who the hell builds hybrid on Kat anyways. Gunblade? You get like 80% of the damage (amounts to like 48) and like, what, 30% of the AP (so you get another 27ish) for a whopping total of...

... whoops it's less than Bloodthirster.

Right.

So the real "buff" is that you can stack BTs and get a Rylai to get the slow effect.

Whoopdeefuckingdoo.

... was it worth the base damage decrease on her ult
and the absolute murder of her early game?

BUFF!
oraoraoraoraoraoraoraora
Prev 1 14 15 16 17 18 118 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Replay Cast
00:00
WardiTV Mondays #83
CranKy Ducklings97
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
PiGStarcraft559
RuFF_SC2 120
Nina 118
ROOTCatZ 63
StarCraft: Brood War
GuemChi 5831
Calm 1245
Artosis 590
Leta 140
NaDa 31
Bale 29
Noble 27
League of Legends
Doublelift4610
JimRising 725
Counter-Strike
Fnx 944
taco 639
Super Smash Bros
hungrybox445
Other Games
summit1g10805
shahzam769
C9.Mang0577
WinterStarcraft230
Hui .181
Maynarde139
ViBE54
minikerr7
Organizations
Other Games
BasetradeTV281
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
[ Show 13 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• CranKy Ducklings SOOP36
• davetesta18
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• masondota21215
Upcoming Events
Replay Cast
6h 17m
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
12h 17m
Maestros of the Game
12h 47m
Clem vs Lambo
Zoun vs SKillous
Replay Cast
21h 17m
Replay Cast
1d 6h
Solar vs Classic
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
1d 12h
Grudge Match
1d 13h
FlaShFTW vs A.Alm
OSC
1d 18h
GSL
2 days
herO vs Rogue
Maru vs Cure
Patches Events
2 days
[ Show More ]
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
2 days
BSL
2 days
Monday Night Weeklies
3 days
Replay Cast
3 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
4 days
Replay Cast
5 days
Kung Fu Cup
5 days
Maestros of the Game
5 days
Replay Cast
5 days
The PondCast
6 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

KK 2v2 League Season 1
RSL Revival: Season 5
Heroes Pulsing #1

Ongoing

BSL Season 22
IPSL Spring 2026
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 2
Acropolis #4
CSCL: Masked Kings S4
YSL S3
SCTL 2026 Spring
WardiTV Spring 2026
Maestros of the Game 2
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
2026 GSL S2
Murky Cup 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026

Upcoming

BSL 22 Non-Korean Championship
CSLAN 4
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
CranK Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League
HSC XXIX
Heroes Pulsing #3
Heroes Pulsing #2
Esports World Cup 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.