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I beat Kat/Panth solo top with swain today :D
Mostly cos they weren't very good.
Unfortunately our LOlaf (heal/flash best jungle obv) was basically an idiot. Towerdiving Veigar and Kat at level 4/6, building wriggle - phage - freaking SotD, spending the first 5 teamfights happily farming top or bot, wherever we weren't, not doing anything to threaten dragon...
oh and our kass was under the impression that his Q was a stun or something
ohh I forgot to mention the time that we were teamfighting and losing then suddenly we noticed olaf had run through their team to mid tower and killed it while we died.
This patch really did destroy kat's early game. The only thing she really did for the first 20 minutes (of 30) was healing debuff me T_T
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On December 15 2010 07:09 myopia wrote:
we should start playing DotA IH's with liquidparty people hahah
slint get dota's iccup launcher and i'll play with you. it's kinda laggy in the USA cause it's based in russia iirc but still fun. i got up to C+ or B- in the initial season
storm spirit 4lyfe
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If it kills jungling its 100% terrible patch the game seems incomplete without jungle serving a real purpose. + All the warding and map awareness crisis control etc that a jungler brings.
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Jungling isn't dead. I have no idea what you guys are talking about. Jungling got a HUGE BUFF.
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You gain ‘leave points’ by leaving games, and if you have enough leave points, you will be suspended or banned.
FFFFFFFUUUUUUCKKKK YEEEESSSSS!!!!!!!!!
im sick and tired of people saying "oh got to go, glhf" fucking 15 minutes into the game, starting one before its even possible to fucking win... this is much needed. ive played 450 games, 3 leaves cause of DC on all of them, rarely a proper excuse.
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On December 15 2010 08:01 Asdkmoga wrote:Show nested quote +You gain ‘leave points’ by leaving games, and if you have enough leave points, you will be suspended or banned. FFFFFFFUUUUUUCKKKK YEEEESSSSS!!!!!!!!! im sick and tired of people saying "oh got to go, glhf" fucking 15 minutes into the game, starting one before its even possible to fucking win... this is much needed. ive played 450 games, 3 leaves cause of DC on all of them, rarely a proper excuse.
I've had to do this once in over 1000 games. And it's not like I did it on purpose. I started a game while home one weekend. My dad was fricken asleep so was like, w/e I can just play. He wakes up like 20 mins into the game and 5 mins after he does he's like "okay, lets go out for dinner. I'm not waiting for you." So had to leave because we didn't win yet. -_-
Sometimes you can't help it.
The leaver thing is more directed to people who afk or ragequit, ruining the game on purpose by just giving up.
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On December 15 2010 07:55 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote:
Jungling isn't dead. I have no idea what you guys are talking about. Jungling got a HUGE BUFF.
at higher levels maybe but where the majority of the LoL population plays, where 99% of people don't know jungle timings/creep counting, jungling is being phased out of the metagame hard. i thought it was a buff at first too, then i played a few games. less HP regen at level up means lower health after buffs which means either risk a low-health gank or heal first, slowing down your gank and jungle levels. lower solo lane experience means that the solo laner is not going to have a level advantage on the duo laners and so ganking that lane is risky. if they keep down this path, having a jungler will actually put your team at a disadvantage
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On December 15 2010 07:55 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote:
Jungling isn't dead. I have no idea what you guys are talking about. Jungling got a HUGE BUFF.
It´s worse if you play Jungling like a PvE game. Ganking got the huge buff (no creepcounting, weaker wards, weaker sololanes) and ganking is the defining feature of a GOOD jungler.
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On December 15 2010 07:55 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote:
Jungling isn't dead. I have no idea what you guys are talking about. Jungling got a HUGE BUFF.
If I had to guess it's probably a matter of growing pains. There are a lot of terrible players who are used to going solo top 1v1 and dominating due to level advantage who are now facing 1v2 fairly often and are failing hard because they can't cover up their terribleness. Essentially, solo top is the new jungler who dies to blue buff, only instead of dying to creeps they're dying to the Sion/Taric lane zoning combo constantly.
Since you won't be screwed over by leavers as much anymore, Riot had to find some way to screw your chances of escaping Elo Hell.
Edit: To be fair the playerbase could definitely shift toward a mindset that junglers only fit in specific team comps because most people simply aren't good enough to handle 1v2, even when they're playing champions who shouldn't have a problem.
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On December 15 2010 07:55 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote:
Jungling isn't dead. I have no idea what you guys are talking about. Jungling got a HUGE BUFF.
Bad jungle champs will jungle slower for the first 3 levels or so, but with a good jungler maybe you can even keep up with the solo lanes.
The point about just zoning a dude out 1v2 and just deny him XP seems like it is just as viable now, so thats a fair point as to why maybe jungling will be unaffected.
On December 15 2010 08:26 Unentschieden wrote:
It´s worse if you play Jungling like a PvE game. Ganking got the huge buff (no creepcounting, weaker wards, weaker sololanes) and ganking is the defining feature of a GOOD jungler.
PvE jungling can be most or less perfected in a bot game, of course ganking is important. Also junglers who gank too much will end up underleveld. You kinda want to balance not missing important ganks/teamfights while not wasting time with 2-3 teammates duking the other team where you;'re not getting XP and you're not even useful since you're a melee who can't harass from distance.
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On December 15 2010 08:27 Seuss wrote:
Edit: To be fair though, the playerbase could definitely shift toward a mindset that junglers only fit in specific team comps because most people simply aren't good enough to handle 1v2, even with champions who shouldn't have a problem.
which champions DON'T have a problem with 1v2 again? i can't think of a single champ that can even marginally hold his own in a 1v2 lane against smart opponents, beyond a very talented gangplank (and even then, a smart 2v1 against gangplank will just take his tower)
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No Garen anymore, wahahahaha!
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1v2 isn't optimal for any champion, but some are definitely better suited to it than others. All the solo has to do is hold out for 3 minutes or less before the jungler is ready to gank. If your solo is horrible that obviously will not work, but even with the "wait in the bushes and completely exp deny them" plan it takes time for the 2 to level up enough to safely tower dive if the solo is any good.
Zilean would probably work well against the full exp deny, simply because he can AoE the incoming waves with complete impunity and delay any attempt to amass a giant creep wave with which to smash the tower.
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On December 15 2010 08:50 Seuss wrote:
1v2 isn't optimal for any champion, but some are definitely better suited to it than others. All the solo has to do is hold out for 3 minutes or less before the jungler is ready to gank. If your solo is horrible that obviously will not work, but even with the "wait in the bushes and completely exp deny them" plan it takes time for the 2 to level up enough to safely tower dive if the solo is any good.
Zilean would probably work well against the full exp deny, simply because he can AoE the incoming waves with complete impunity and delay any attempt to amass a giant creep wave with which to smash the tower.
in doing this as zilean don't you risk pushing the lane too far and thus force your self out of exp range?
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What I'm saying is if they're camping your bushes, doing zero last hitting, and just waiting until they hit level 3 and you're level 1 to try and tower dive you it's an option Zilean has that some other champions don't to hold it off. In any other scenario a wide variety of champions are capable of managing creep waves such that they aren't exp denied and also aren't at risk of being dived until a gank is feasible.
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They're not going to push creep waves to your tower. The point isn't to get a kill, it's to make sure the solo champ gets zero exp and gold while the duo lane still gets exp (but also no gold). They're not trying to build up a large creep wave, because if they do it'll eventually get to the solo's tower and then the solo gets exp and probably some gold from it and the duo may not get a kill (and regardless may end up with the creep wave not far enough away from the tower to continue denying exp and gold).
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Yeah Zilean would work pretty well with the full exp deny, how nice of you to help the other team~
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On December 15 2010 09:04 Seuss wrote:
What I'm saying is if they're camping your bushes, doing zero last hitting, and just waiting until they hit level 3 and you're level 1 to try and tower dive you it's an option Zilean has that some other champions don't to hold it off. In any other scenario a wide variety of champions are capable of managing creep waves such that they aren't exp denied and also aren't at risk of being dived until a gank is feasible.
they're not going to tower dive you at level 3. they're going to keep exp denying you and put a ward up in the bush. and when your jungler comes to help kill you, you're still level 1, you jump out of tower to help, they kill you, worst case scenario for them is 1 for 1, best case scenario they kill you and jungler doesn't get a kill, or they kill jungler after they kill you and take the double buff and then tower. if your jungler never comes they just take your tower
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If the full exp deny was really this intractable I don't see why it wasn't used extensively before. It's not as though the solo lane exp nerf makes a difference to the full exp deny in the early game. What, if anything, has been preventing this strategy from being typical against junglers up to this point?
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People are more comfortable with a 1/1/2 + Jungler setup, and the counter that we've described here is just something that people aren't used to, and was harder to pull off than the normal pattern.
I honestly think that people should start running something like this: 2 stunners top (especially because of the Flash nerf), carry mid, Gangplank bot, then a jungler that can gank really well.
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EPT
