EPTGeneral Discussion/Off-topic - Page 431
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HazMat
United States17077 Posts
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Juicyfruit
Canada5484 Posts
Btw, Karma seems very viable. | ||
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
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Phrost
United States4008 Posts
On March 05 2011 14:27 Phrost wrote: Taric feels weak compared to most other supports unless you beat on him. He's got this weird catch 22 where he doesnt do a ton unless he's focused but if he's focused he doesn't die so there is 2x as much reason for the enemy not to attack him. this has been the case ever since they shit on his ult and made it nearly impossible for him to maintain it for more than a few seconds. Basically this. Soraka is good bait, taric just either gets shit on with stuns or he lives forever. So either he never gets attacked or he always gets attacked and killed. His stun is supplemental but in reality he's not very strong on his own, considering his aura, although powerful, doesn't really help much in team fights atm due to how many tanky dps do mostly magic damage. | ||
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Niton
United States2395 Posts
On March 05 2011 15:03 Phrost wrote: Basically this. Soraka is good bait, taric just either gets shit on with stuns or he lives forever. So either he never gets attacked or he always gets attacked and killed. His stun is supplemental but in reality he's not very strong on his own, considering his aura, although powerful, doesn't really help much in team fights atm due to how many tanky dps do mostly magic damage. Yeah, Taric's design of 'build tanky instead of AP/support' used to be an advantage, but with the way things are now, he's just a non-factor in fights because he lacks the ability to do anything 'interesting' on a teamfight-changing scale; doubly so now that towers push really fast without him juicing the minions. re: Tapioca in the other thread, if you still want to play Taric i'd say or Null-Magic (Cloth vs guaranteed physical lane) + Pots or DRing into Boots1 and then whichever of Boots2, Spirit Visage or Aegis you can afford when you go back. Chalice is actually pretty good on Taric, since you place heavy priority on MR over Armor. I wouldn't recommend getting much hp unless you're ahead, because until you have a whole lot of Armor / MR, it's going to scale better because Taric has good base HP and self-healing. Forcing yourself to be an initiator and a support is a pretty miserable experience in solo queue, though, because often times your team simply won't commit after you draw all of the enemy team's fire to burst you down. | ||
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Chairman Ray
United States11903 Posts
So far my build consists of: Tabi/Merc boots Sunfire Frozen Heart Thornmail/FoN Warmogs RO Should I swap one of them out for a gunblade or something? | ||
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dnastyx
United States2707 Posts
But in that case I would just pick Alistar. | ||
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rewtamus
United States327 Posts
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Niton
United States2395 Posts
On March 05 2011 16:17 rewtamus wrote: single target stun But Soraka has a really potent single-target disable now, as well. You trade 1-2 seconds (ideally 2, practically often 1 to 1.5) of merc treads reducable stun for 3 seconds of unreducable silence. With wall-hopping being such a binary live/die kind of thing, the extra second or more of inability to do it can make the difference between scoring a kill or not. A stun on someone who's got merc treads who walks into your bush is great, but if they can flash away immediately after you might not get the kill. Paired with any other kind of slow or CC, Soraka guarantees 3 seconds in which the prey can't do anything but run (or auto if they're the ranged carry, but in a 5v1 the ranged carry is probably dead regardless). Single target stun was a lot stronger when it created kill opportunities against most of the enemy team. When you can't kill someone in stun because they're someone like Udyr or Cho'gath checking the bush for their team, it becomes a whole lot less useful. | ||
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r33k
Italy3402 Posts
On March 05 2011 14:36 Juicyfruit wrote: Taric has been feeling a little subpar recently for sure. He will roll you when his team is winning, because of how powerful his pushing ability is, but he feels so mediocre if "1 stun isn't enough", basically. Btw, Karma seems very viable. He's a decent roamer tho, somewhat like alistar he packs a pocket stun, doesn't need too much farm and he also has a heal and the armor aura/shatter make him really good in 2v1 and 2v2 fights. Also why is karma bad? I wasn't playing when she came out and she seemed to disappear unnoticed. | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On March 05 2011 17:28 r33k wrote: He's a decent roamer tho, somewhat like alistar he packs a pocket stun, doesn't need too much farm and he also has a heal and the armor aura/shatter make him really good in 2v1 and 2v2 fights. Also why is karma bad? I wasn't playing when she came out and she seemed to disappear unnoticed. Personally my biggest issue with Karma at release was how she was vastly overshadowed by Zilean (bomb > heavenly wave, time warp > leash, ridiculous ulti > low-utility shield). Of course, with Zilean being on perma-ban status means that comparison is no longer damning. | ||
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Kaniol
Poland5551 Posts
For example let's look at her shield - most shields have "side effects" (Janna's shield give shuge AD boost, Jarvan's shield slows, Urgot's shield slows, Mordekaiser's shield deals DOT) - her shield doesn't. Her shield does have additional effect when coupled with ult. WTF kind of ult is it that? It seems like Karma's ult has only one purpose - to change her skills from inferior to equal to skills of other champions... | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On March 05 2011 18:30 Kaniol wrote: For example let's look at her shield - most shields have "side effects" (Janna's shield give shuge AD boost, Jarvan's shield slows, Urgot's shield slows, Mordekaiser's shield deals DOT) - her shield doesn't. Her shield does have additional effect when coupled with ult. WTF kind of ult is it that? It seems like Karma's ult has only one purpose - to change her skills from inferior to equal to skills of other champions... The other thing is that designing skills for a support champ that are only there to do damage is just silly. You're not going to scale your damage skills because you're ceding farm to your team's real damage-dealers, so unless they're really high-value early game (e.g. Zilean bombs) and can translate into lane control, they're just going to be dead weight when they get outscaled because you don't build AP or MPen. Having un-mantra-ed Q be strictly a damage skill is not appealing for a support. Having E's mantra effect only be damage is not appealing for a support. I can sort of see Riot having this romantic idea that a support can soak up a ton of farm, and somehow make up for the fact that your carries have no damage because you took their farm, through super-high supporting power, but nobody actually plays the game that way. | ||
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Kaniol
Poland5551 Posts
http://www.own3d.tv/video/80125/TheOddOne_s_Nunu_Counter_Jungle_Tutorial_Part_1 | ||
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cascades
Singapore6122 Posts
While you get versatility, when you double these effects, are they even 1/4 the raw power of an ultimate? Not going to cut it. | ||
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Niton
United States2395 Posts
On March 05 2011 18:39 TheYango wrote: I can sort of see Riot having this romantic idea that a support can soak up a ton of farm, and somehow make up for the fact that your carries have no damage because you took their farm, through super-high supporting power, but nobody actually plays the game that way. Related to the Taric discussion earlier, if Taric could wind up with 200 - 250 cs a game, he could be king shit of everything and engage under towers and live eznp against any team that wasn't super fed. As is he doesn't get the CS he needs to be sufficiently unkillable to be a real tank unless you're taking it from your team. Taric's not really a 'support' in the 'functions near-optimally at 0 CS' sense. | ||
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HeavOnEarth
United States7087 Posts
On March 05 2011 18:39 Kaniol wrote: BTW not that long time ago we were talking about Nunu being one of the top junglers. Personally i don't see too many nunus at my ELO and i don't feel like he's too popular. I guess some people may find this tutorial inspiring: http://www.own3d.tv/video/80125/TheOddOne_s_Nunu_Counter_Jungle_Tutorial_Part_1 wow really good video, thanks! | ||
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dnastyx
United States2707 Posts
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Seiuchi
United States931 Posts
On March 05 2011 18:39 TheYango wrote: The other thing is that designing skills for a support champ that are only there to do damage is just silly. You're not going to scale your damage skills because you're ceding farm to your team's real damage-dealers, so unless they're really high-value early game (e.g. Zilean bombs) and can translate into lane control, they're just going to be dead weight when they get outscaled because you don't build AP or MPen. Having un-mantra-ed Q be strictly a damage skill is not appealing for a support. Having E's mantra effect only be damage is not appealing for a support. I can sort of see Riot having this romantic idea that a support can soak up a ton of farm, and somehow make up for the fact that your carries have no damage because you took their farm, through super-high supporting power, but nobody actually plays the game that way. Riot's made the last few supports really farm intensive, which was okay for Sona when she was god mode and ended up with Lux just being an AP carry when they meant for her to be support. I feel like they don't understand the dynamics of farming appropriately and gold distribution. Guinsoo was talking on his twitter about how they could increase experience gain for 2v1 lanes to help make it a more attractive option compared to jungling, when the reason you go 1 top and 1 in jungle is to increase gold given to the team, not because you level slower. | ||
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r33k
Italy3402 Posts
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