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On January 17 2011 03:55 gtrsrs wrote:
i don't know why people deny that there's an elo hell
until you've played at all levels of the game you can't really be the judge of it imo
i mean our cevo team last week *crushed* a team of 1550-1600 elo players. most of us are 1300-1400. we went 17-1 and won in like 26 minutes. so you're telling me that players like barbsq and i who are stuck at 1300 elo are legitimately worse than these players who are at 1600 elo, and that there's no luck involved? i don't think you can let it work like that: it can't be luck when we beat a team much better than us, but skill-level when we can't win in solo queue. brees is right, solo queue elo is just determined by who gets more retards on their team. i've had the bigger retards for like 9 of my last 10 solo queue games and i'm about to drop back down to < 1300. this week we play a team full of 1700 and 1800 players in cevo. if we win this tourney game i think that's pretty solid evidence that elo hell exists
that makes the assumption that we are actually good tho,
i dunno about you, but i'm not confident that i deserve much more than 13-1400 tbh. mybe when i'm really on my game i do pretty well, but i'm a pretty inconsistent player, so me holding high elo positions is probably not gonna happen
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There are multiple reasons why you might win a 5v5 ARRANGED TEAM game and suck balls at 5v5 SOLO QUEUE.
Also FWIW I lump everyone from 1400-1600 in the same skill bracket.
[edit] Okay but what happens when you guys get crushed? Is that evidence that it doesn't exist? [/edit]
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I sympathize with you losing your solo queue games but multiple players have proven time and time again that getting into the top ranks is simple and achievable. Phreak's smurf Deathmacia is higher than his main account. Bigfatjiji has 4 accounts in the top 100 or something. Dicksuckchan made a smurf to practice with and it's 1700 already.
When you tell us "Elo means nothing" you're basically saying we're luckier scrubs than you are and that's insulting because you act like we've NEVER DEALT WITH RETARDS. Trust me, we deal with retards on a game-to-game basis.
Like seriously, whose games do you think are harder to win?
I mean, if you normal queue into top 100 namedrops on a regular basis you can say "Elo means nothing" but if you're not queuing into the koreans or someone from CLG every time you queue stop spewing that bullshit. If your average queue times are under 10 minutes stfu. Elo is a reliable indicator of how consistent you are at this game and although I recognize there are players that don't play ranked that are good and that people can have bad luck swings, I also recognize that those people are a VERY TINY MINORITY of LoL players.
We were talking shit to each other in league chat last night and Jougonaut says to Yiruru "remember that time you dropped from 1800 to 1500?"
Where is Yiruru now?
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Marshall Islands3404 Posts
impossible to win games where your team instalocks 4 carries imo
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On January 17 2011 06:52 Brees wrote:
impossible to win games where your team instalocks 4 carries imo
lol, I don't think champion choices were the problem. Your lanes were faring pretty well too, except mid.
Also, I think having MS quints top is really really good.
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Marshall Islands3404 Posts
so ezrael/shaco/kassadin/malphite/vlad should beat sion/taric/shen/corki/akali
i dont see that happening, ever
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play dps garen
psyonic locks me out of my account
thanks
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On January 17 2011 06:04 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote:
There are multiple reasons why you might win a 5v5 ARRANGED TEAM game and suck balls at 5v5 SOLO QUEUE.
Also FWIW I lump everyone from 1400-1600 in the same skill bracket.
[edit] Okay but what happens when you guys get crushed? Is that evidence that it doesn't exist? [/edit]
whoo im not in the same skill bracket as those kids
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When I play Kennen vs Cho, the only time I bother to harass him is at level 5. Any other time it's quite pointless, but at level 5 you have level 3 shuriken on fairly low cooldown, and you can set him up for a possible level 6 kill.
If you don't kill Cho when you tick level 6, then just hope that your jungler pulls off a good gank before Ch hits 3+ feast stacks.
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I mean my big thing is that at level 5 I have 3 points in scream and that pretty much shuts any stuns down cold. I don't even have to kill Kennen to win the lane, he can't hold or farm against me once I shop for the first time and from there I just get feast stacked before I trade with him unless I can get a kill. Even if you dodge every single one of my ruptures all I have to do is place it where you have to eat a scream if you walk around it or blind charge me and hope you kill me after silence wears off and boom, at some point I'm either going to force you to blow summoners/bluepill or die to flash feast.
Cho wrecks pretty much every ranged champ in the game except anivia/vlad/nid super easy. He loses to Sion/Akali/Xin/sometimes Vlad, draws + freefarm for both against nid/malphite/gragas/mundo/heimer and pretty much 100% crushes everyone else. I might be missing a special case or two but those are the ones that come to mind.
[edit] Oh ya mord is pretty tough [/edit]
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On January 17 2011 06:10 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote:
I sympathize with you losing your solo queue games but multiple players have proven time and time again that getting into the top ranks is simple and achievable. Phreak's smurf Deathmacia is higher than his main account. Bigfatjiji has 4 accounts in the top 100 or something. Dicksuckchan made a smurf to practice with and it's 1700 already.
When you tell us "Elo means nothing" you're basically saying we're luckier scrubs than you are and that's insulting because you act like we've NEVER DEALT WITH RETARDS. Trust me, we deal with retards on a game-to-game basis.
Like seriously, whose games do you think are harder to win?
I mean, if you normal queue into top 100 namedrops on a regular basis you can say "Elo means nothing" but if you're not queuing into the koreans or someone from CLG every time you queue stop spewing that bullshit. If your average queue times are under 10 minutes stfu. Elo is a reliable indicator of how consistent you are at this game and although I recognize there are players that don't play ranked that are good and that people can have bad luck swings, I also recognize that those people are a VERY TINY MINORITY of LoL players.
We were talking shit to each other in league chat last night and Jougonaut says to Yiruru "remember that time you dropped from 1800 to 1500?"
Where is Yiruru now?
This is why I believe my consistency theory is correct. A top level player will play consistently better than 99% of the population. And when they play poorly, they may play at the 95% percentile. But that 95% game is only going to happen once every 25 games, and they will still beat most people. Thats why you see someone like jiji with 4 top 100 accounts. While it may be hard for a 1200 to carry a bunch of people playing at 1000 level, he is gonna have no problem carrying a team like that, simply from being able to farm up an ie before most people have boots.
At lower levels (below 1600) it is very possible for a person to play at 1400 level one game and 1000 the next. And they would probably lose both, since the mark of a 1400 level player would be that they make a few crucial errors that lose the game, even though they may be 17-4-10 at the end of the game. They might feel like they deserved to win the game, based on score alone, but one of their decisions was probably the poor one that lost the game.
I played a game last night with a poppy who was 24-7-something. The game was fairly even because we had a MF who was absolutely retarded, out of position the entire time, and got herself killed alot. Yet, when it came down to it, we had vision of baron and only myself and two other people were in position to try to contest. Poppy wasn't one of them. She had gone to buy prior to that, with full knowledge that their entire team was up and we hadn't seen them for a while. No matter what she did the entire game, that free baron was what enabled them to run us over in mid and win the game. A better player would have been aware of the fact that the other team was going to baron there.
Is it possible for jiji to carry a team of morons? Yes. Is it possible for me, or someone at a similar elo? Not so much. I have to play a damn near perfect game, and hope that I can get just a little bit of help from teammates. And thats why people think elo hell exists: when jiji tries to carry a team of retards at 1200 elo, he is going to be able to outfarm them and rip them apart. When he gets to 1600, he is still going to outfarm them, but not as much. He is going to have game knowledge on them, but not as much. That is the point where he will have to rely on one or two of them having a brain and knowing what to do. It isnt rare at 1600. It is at 1200. I can be 200 points higher than everyone else in the game, but it probably isnt going to matter unless i get a teammate who can play about 50 points better than the other team. But since low elo players are so inconsistent, that probably isnt going to happen every game, and i will lose, even if I'm better. The point is, Im not THAT much better, to the point I can do it alone. And that is where the idea of elo hell comes from: I can be slightly better than everyone else, but still lose because I'm not so much better I can carry a game on my own. Does ELO hell exist? Yes and no. For top level players? No, it doesnt. For low level players, elo hell is merely the variance in performance between bad players.
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Haven't we already discussed the shit out of this topic for months? Can't we just talk about how bad Caller is?
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Why can 'insert name drop here' get x accounts to high elo and other people get stuck in shitsville? Because they put themselves in a position to be able to carry the game, and know how to bloody well.
Seems like the best thing you can do for yourself is to pick a champion that can get themselves fed (through farming, or ganking) and who can reliably push towers. Well... maybe it's not even the best thing (I dunno, im still a scrub), but I find it works well for me.
I'm still learning the best ways to carry, and put myself in a position to be able to carry. Like, Akali is one of my best champions, but I rarely get a viable opportunity to pick her in solo q because as more often than not I can't rely on getting one of the solo lanes. I know I can carry the shit out of a team by getting a 1v1 lane with her (and facing a team she's at least not terrible against). But I also know that my teammates don't understand this.
Solution? Make it easy for your teammates to understand. Pick a character who's needs and skills are widely known, don't force your team into tricky situations like having to make logical decisions. Ex: Just take MF and call mid lane. Even if you've got some crazy strong Nasus mid build that dominates everyone ever this is gonna be too much thinking for your team, and they are going to end up saying the last pick tristana with heal clarity should take mid instead.
But meh, that's just my thoughts.
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On January 17 2011 07:30 Caller wrote:
play dps garen
psyonic locks me out of my account
thanks
Give Caller the ultimate Garen tool to win every game ever.
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that caller kid is a baddie feeder fo sho
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When are we going to get a dps garen guide?
There has to be more to it than
1 Build phantom dancers
2 Run around
3 .....
4 profit
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like 5hit i don't want you to get me wrong. do i think i'm a top 100 player in this game? no. am i saying that you're bad, or that ezpz is bad, or that i'm better than numbers? no (although i must say that i was really tickled once when you said that i was at least as good as you tbh). i'm not saying that i'm better than spudboy, but i've played a lot with spudboy and he (might) agree that i can "hang with him." again i'm not trying to insult any of the better TL players. i remember when 5hit was like 1400 elo, really close to mine. and then he was like "it's time to kick it into high gear and get to my true elo" and like 3 weeks later he was 1800 and i was just baffled. i obviously don't have the ability to do that or i would. but can i at least play at the 1600 level? well, our tourney games so far say yes. and i can say with confidence that i'm the only TLer to play with the worst of the worst and the best of the best so i have a good idea of the skill levels of everyone all across the board and so yes, i will back up my position that elo hell exists.
i mean take a look at the 1200-1400 range (which i consider to be elo hell). your team captain may have only 4 games under his belt (3 of which he fed like crazy, one of which he played tank teemo cause he thinks it's the best build), but since riot uses the retarded skipping stone method with HUGE elo boosts when you start playing, he's like 1460 elo. meanwhile i worked my way up from the 700 elo level and have hundreds of games but since i've been fucked in recent games i'm only at 1300. this player thinks that numbers mean everything and so when i tell him not to go to lane with sapphire crystal when his teemo only has 420 HP, he tells me "stfu noob i'm team captain you are noob you took smite on WW." i look at our other lanes, annie with sapphire crystal, ezrael with vamp scepter, shen with ruby gem. WOW REAL STRONG EARLY GAME WE GOT HERE. of course annie and ezrael give double first blood before i even finish blue buff. this game is over. was any part of it my fault? absolutely not. these games happen a lot more than they should at this level
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On January 17 2011 06:00 barbsq wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2011 03:55 gtrsrs wrote:
i don't know why people deny that there's an elo hell
until you've played at all levels of the game you can't really be the judge of it imo
i mean our cevo team last week *crushed* a team of 1550-1600 elo players. most of us are 1300-1400. we went 17-1 and won in like 26 minutes. so you're telling me that players like barbsq and i who are stuck at 1300 elo are legitimately worse than these players who are at 1600 elo, and that there's no luck involved? i don't think you can let it work like that: it can't be luck when we beat a team much better than us, but skill-level when we can't win in solo queue. brees is right, solo queue elo is just determined by who gets more retards on their team. i've had the bigger retards for like 9 of my last 10 solo queue games and i'm about to drop back down to < 1300. this week we play a team full of 1700 and 1800 players in cevo. if we win this tourney game i think that's pretty solid evidence that elo hell exists that makes the assumption that we are actually good tho, i dunno about you, but i'm not confident that i deserve much more than 13-1400 tbh. mybe when i'm really on my game i do pretty well, but i'm a pretty inconsistent player, so me holding high elo positions is probably not gonna happen
your pantheon is 1900 elo but your taric is 3 elo so it evens out to 1300 tbh. i think you're right where you should be
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On January 17 2011 07:30 Caller wrote:
play dps garen
psyonic locks me out of my account
thanks
Garen free week he is described as Melee DPS >.O
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Isnt everyone's pantheon elo like 1900? It isnt like he's all that hard to win a lane with.
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EPT
