EPTGeneral Discussion/Off-topic - Page 1143
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Therealdevil
Netherlands1021 Posts
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Mogwai
United States13274 Posts
Kayle and Karma and Nidalee all need solos IMHO, but I have seen them run in bot lane with a carry and getting very little farm. | ||
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gtrsrs
United States9109 Posts
taric's actually a really good champ through the whole game if you build him AP. if he's AP then he's got huge burst so the enemy is encouraged to focus him so he can't stun->shatter your carry to 1/5th hp and if he's getting focused then that's less damage being thrown at your real carries. and if they don't focus him he's got 500hp heals on a relatively short cooldown and an awesome armor aura. i think the way taric used to be played is pretty bad though, yes. "support" taric is really lackluster and i don't advise it | ||
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Southlight
United States11768 Posts
Sona on the other hand has a significantly weaker heal but due to her position can build more like Soraka, and so her heal gets stronger as the game goes on, especially with CDR, she's actually a much better defender (due to speed boost + snare proc), and her ult is obscene. Of the three Smash listed I'd only take Nidalee bot as a support (as she can work on minimal farm due to the way her ult works), but I would never take Kayle as a support hero, and Karma's a farm whore. | ||
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Mogwai
United States13274 Posts
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Southlight
United States11768 Posts
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r33k
Italy3402 Posts
Janna vs Sona is a hard choice since they are both picked for counter-initiating: Sona has nothing pre-lv6, her lane partner needs to be someone who would also be viable (could survive) in a solo lane. Sona gives her partner more sustainability but offers no protection against aggression. Janna has no heals. No heals means that your lane partner will have to buy potions and unless you managed to bait them into towerdiving and got a kill if your partner got low he will have to bluepill and give up a lot of farm, which makes her the weaker laner past the basic gank protection. Janna and Taric are the only characters on whom Aegis is a viable item pickup. Sona helps triple carry teams, Janna helps double tank/bruiser teams. Sona/Soraka/Alistar are the supports for a carry that needs farm and would ideally sit in lane all game long (ashe, tristana). Alistar offers anti-gank protection since lv1, but I would consider him to be farm-dependant to an extent. Taric and Alistar are the two roamer supports. In the current metagame they should only roam if their bot lane is of no threat whatsoever to your carry. With the gold per kill nerf this isn't a reliable source of income, and is usually done to deny/cripple one of your opponent's solos. Alistar benefits from a crippled opponent more because of how squishy he is outside of his ultimate. I would never recommend Kayle or Karma since there is always a better option to them and I believe Karma should be played as a solo. Kayle is best used when paired with a burst carry who benefits from slows and being speedbuffed, aka Vayne. | ||
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Southlight
United States11768 Posts
Also a lot of times Janna doesn't even level shield that high in lane anyways derp. | ||
NeoIllusions
United States37500 Posts
On July 26 2011 01:07 Southlight wrote: Taric's heal's stronger at the onset but its cooldown really hampers him. I guess if you can build him like Soraka/Sona it wouldn't be so bad but people expect him to like, stun shit, and when he does you're in danger range. I guess if you can get a decent team comp or are better at Taric than I am it wouldn't be so bad, but I think he's notorious for being pretty garbage in teamfights, especially the later the game goes. Sona on the other hand has a significantly weaker heal but due to her position can build more like Soraka, and so her heal gets stronger as the game goes on, especially with CDR, she's actually a much better defender (due to speed boost + snare proc), and her ult is obscene. Of the three Smash listed I'd only take Nidalee bot as a support (as she can work on minimal farm due to the way her ult works), but I would never take Kayle as a support hero, and Karma's a farm whore. Playing Kayle as support is an abomination. That's like playing Zilean as support. why the f ever... Just because a champion has an ultimate that looks slightly on the defensive spectrum of things doesn't mean you scrap their entire kit and design. | ||
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Juicyfruit
Canada5484 Posts
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Southlight
United States11768 Posts
 Other people're the ones that said Kayle support! | ||
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NeoIllusions
United States37500 Posts
On July 26 2011 01:13 Southlight wrote: Wait, why quote me, I said the same thing you did, but in less words Other people're the ones that said Kayle support! I'm supporting your statement, just with more fervor. I got yo back, Utabro. | ||
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gtrsrs
United States9109 Posts
On July 26 2011 01:07 Southlight wrote: Taric's heal's stronger at the onset but its cooldown really hampers him. I guess if you can build him like Soraka/Sona it wouldn't be so bad but people expect him to like, stun shit, and when he does you're in danger range. I guess if you can get a decent team comp or are better at Taric than I am it wouldn't be so bad, but I think he's notorious for being pretty garbage in teamfights, especially the later the game goes. yeah, "standard" taric is really bad in teamfights i'm telling you tho, build AP and you're a legit teamfight threat. also the CD on his heal is actually really low, especially around level 3 heal and when you consider its CDR through standard attacks. he works even better in comps that are designed around getting the jump on someone and bursting them down quickly. nocturne is fucking fantastic with taric cause you can catch someone out of position with flash->dazzle and then have noc go to town on them. seriously, taric is OP right now. and they're thinking about buffing/changing his ult too. i can't imagine how strong he'll be then | ||
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Southlight
United States11768 Posts
Also I still don't like him if I'm allowed to take farm. If I'm allowed to farm I'd take Sona every day. | ||
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
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Southlight
United States11768 Posts
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Brees
Marshall Islands3404 Posts
their level 1-6 is retarded | ||
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Juicyfruit
Canada5484 Posts
On July 26 2011 01:18 Alaric wrote: So how do you play Zilean, AP ganker/harasser? Standard AP carry. His laning is absurdly strong and if you stick a blue buff on him only a couple of champions can deal with it because he can speed boost himself and stick a double bomb on you that you cannot avoid. | ||
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Southlight
United States11768 Posts
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r33k
Italy3402 Posts
On July 26 2011 01:11 Southlight wrote: Janna has no heals but if you've got the proper lane matchup you don't need them, because you're always the one starting the fight on your terms so you can shield up and go. It's only bad if your lane partner is playing passive and forces you to consistently reactive-shield. Also a lot of times Janna doesn't even level shield that high in lane anyways derp. Janna forces their lanemate into buying potions and one more doran's item. This is great if you get an early kill advantage and your opponents tilt and try (and fail) to gank you over and over, otherwise I only consider her a situational pick. Kayle needs farm, forgot to mention that but it's pretty obvious and everyone else mentioned that. Nidalee is getter than I thought, she has the usual great lategame scaling of sololane nidalee with the option to be played as a BD character. She is a great pick to steal brush domination from duos that count on it to be effective (taric, garen, alistar). Unfortunately, mana is a bitch, especially if you get ganked/pressured a lot. Great laning partner for tristana since it allows her to go dblade>BF and be played like an AD character right away instead of transitioning from the usual ability spam into AD. I really like heimer in a solo lane against supports with a weak heal (sona, janna, alistar). When paired with a character that can protect him and contribute to his damage (alistar, kayle, taric) he is extremely strong. Whether to go grenade or ult at lv6 is debatable. Also one of the characters with the best brush control. Auto-loses to Caitlyn. | ||
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