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On July 12 2011 02:35 UniversalSnip wrote:
These programs exist in pretty much every real time game that's played at a high level. There's not really anything you can do about them, so I don't see much point banning them.
In other games I don't think they even provide much of an edge because they eat your apm, so a manually timing player will have a mechanical advantage. Lol's apm reqs are very low though so I guess that's not true here
They are banned so people in competitive play/tournaments don't use them. Of course if you are reckless or a low level player you can still use them but that's not the point. Officially allowing things like that is like begging people to use them. And if you allow jungle timers people will go steps further and time summoners, ults, everything at which point it becomes an actual big advantage.
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On July 12 2011 02:17 Southlight wrote:
No it's just a macro-based app where when a buff/drag/bar is killed you hit a button and it sets a timer to button-clicked-time+6m or something stupid and simple like that. No different from typing it in the damn chat. Silly tears imo.
You hit a button and the overlay starts a visible countdown from 300 to 0. At 15 seconds (value might be modifiable), a voice tells you that red buff is about to spawn. At 0 seconds, it tells you that red buff has spawned.
This is quite different from typing stuff in chat. You don't have to check the game time AND the time you called in chat AND calculate the difference. You just glance at that nicely visible overlay and it tells you precisely how long until something spawns. If you forget checking back on the time you called in chat because you're busy with something you might be too late at dragon. This program will tell you when it's about to spawn without you having to remeber to check on it.
Of course this program doesn't do anything you couldn't do without it, but it allows you to do it with much less effort.
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On July 12 2011 02:35 UniversalSnip wrote:
These programs exist in pretty much every real time game that's played at a high level. There's not really anything you can do about them, so I don't see much point banning them.
In other games I don't think they even provide much of an edge because they eat your apm, so a manually timing player will have a mechanical advantage. Lol's apm reqs are very low though so I guess that's not true here
I personally don't mind, as long as it doesn't cross the line, which in my mind is when the apps start using audio beeps/cues to signal enemy champion cooldowns. I don't mind people having to alt-tab to enter that they just killed dragon, what's the difference between using a computer tool to track it and having a piece of paper on the side of your computer that has all the CD times and writing it in chat?
Tracking summoner CD's would be really nice, especially flash. 255 second cd, 240 with mastery, write that in chat for the jungler to gank. ^_^
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On July 12 2011 02:35 UniversalSnip wrote:
These programs exist in pretty much every real time game that's played at a high level.
Yeah but they are not allowed in tournaments so top players and aspiring high lvls players don't use them. It makes a difference in the choice to use it or not, even if it's available.
If any 1200 elo player uses an overlay, no one care.
If TSM use the same overlay and get into a dispute in a tournament because of it, it becomes problematic.
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On July 12 2011 00:18 Southlight wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2011 00:16 Seuss wrote:
Yorick's laning may be strong, but he seems fairly useless in team fights unless you have a fed/farmed ranged carry. I've yet to see any Yorick be remotely successful past the laning phase without a farmed ranged carry to ult. He's a melee DPS, think Yi/Trynd/Shaco... when he's farmed he's like unbeatable 1v1 for any hero esp because his ult gives like 100% damage increase :/
He fits in that category, but unlike the three champions you listed he doesn't have a good method for getting into melee range during team fights. It's a problem I haven't seen any Yorick players overcome yet.
At the moment he really seems strongest as a laning counter-pick who shifts into a late-game ult bot/protector for your super-farmed DPS (the more steroid skills/items the better).
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On July 12 2011 02:24 Southlight wrote:
Honestly, keeping track of certain ults by typing time in chat sounds like a good idea that never occurred to me. But yes, I'd consider it fair, because it's doing nothing that you can't do with typing/mental note.
You could split workers yourself in BW, yet automine was banned.
You could issue orders to all of your units yourself in BW, yet multicommand was banned.
Just because a program "only" does something you can do yourself manually it doesn't mean that it's not providing an unfair advantage by making it easier to do.
If you allow one of those programs, it's gonna be hard to draw a line for other stuff. It should be possible to write a program that just keeps track of the minimap (by acting as a virtual monitor and then passing the information on to your real monitor, no hacking or reading of game memory here zzz), and every time a champion pops out of the fog it alerts you somehow. Every time a creep camp gets cleared or respawns it could do something. Every time an ally gets to low HP it could warn you (hello Soraka players). The list goes on and on...
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On July 12 2011 02:47 Seuss wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2011 00:18 Southlight wrote:On July 12 2011 00:16 Seuss wrote:
Yorick's laning may be strong, but he seems fairly useless in team fights unless you have a fed/farmed ranged carry. I've yet to see any Yorick be remotely successful past the laning phase without a farmed ranged carry to ult. He's a melee DPS, think Yi/Trynd/Shaco... when he's farmed he's like unbeatable 1v1 for any hero esp because his ult gives like 100% damage increase :/ He fits in that category, but unlike the three champions you listed he doesn't have a good method for getting into melee range during team fights. It's a problem I haven't seen any Yorick players overcome yet. At the moment he really seems strongest as a laning counter-pick who shifts into a late-game ult bot/protector for your super-farmed DPS (the more steroid skills/items the better).
Well, Southlight doesn't seem to read anyone elses posts so obviously he didn't figure out that the lack of a gapcloser would be troublesome(Not to mention that those 3 are terrible champions in the first place).
And actually yorick is like the worst lategame champion, he's only good early on. His ulti is worse than Shacos. Tryndamere can 1v1 Yorick without having to ult as can anyone else with lifesteal as Yorick can't deal damage. He also loses to anyone who's ranged or Jax or Nasus.
I guess out of the lategame carries he beats... DPS Malphite? No wait, the aspd debuff owns him. Eehhhh....
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via his passive and ult, he gets 20% damage redux + 20% additional AD, + relatively retarded AD scaling in terms of his 3 non ults combining for 105% of his AD + his ult for another 100% AD + the nuke portions of E and W accounting for another 1.8 AD scaling on his frontloaded burst. Looking at it on paper, he scales absurdly well with AD.
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I said him having a gap closer would make him ridiculously imba, just as Udyr with a gapcloser would be fucking retarded. Who didn't read who's post again?
Edit:
On July 09 2011 00:59 Southlight wrote:
Edit:
Yorick having a pure gapcloser would be fucking retarded because he's hard as shit to peel (long-ass snare duration + speedboost) and you have to kill him at least twice, on top of his ghost giving him stupid damage buff (+50% at level 6, +100% at 16 making him literally two heroes in one, good luck stopping that if he ever snowballs). Give him GA at some point and you're looking at a melee DPS faggot that's hard to peel and you have to kill just to stop him from being twice as effective.
No, but you're right. Shame on me for not reading posts.
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United States47024 Posts
On July 12 2011 02:55 Mogwai wrote:
via his passive and ult, he gets 20% damage redux + 20% additional AD, + relatively retarded AD scaling in terms of his 3 non ults combining for 105% of his AD + his ult for another 100% AD + the nuke portions of E and W accounting for another 1.8 AD scaling on his frontloaded burst. Looking at it on paper, he scales absurdly well with AD.
There's also the fact that his damage is extremely well split between physical and magic damage, making it hard to build mitigation stats against him midgame if he gets ahead early.
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Yorick is a sick late game champ. Manamune and a bloodthirster, plus any tank item will ensure that you can 1v1 damn near anyone, sine it realistically is a 2v1. The amazing thing is is that his passive makes him so naturally tanky that you realistically can go full damage on him and be fine. Plus, as I proved the other day, he can split push like a boss because of his godly 1v1, ult, and ability to stack damage.
Only thing id like to see would be that you get the q speed buff on actvation rather than on hit. But that would make him gangplank level op.
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On July 12 2011 03:06 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2011 02:55 Mogwai wrote:
via his passive and ult, he gets 20% damage redux + 20% additional AD, + relatively retarded AD scaling in terms of his 3 non ults combining for 105% of his AD + his ult for another 100% AD + the nuke portions of E and W accounting for another 1.8 AD scaling on his frontloaded burst. Looking at it on paper, he scales absurdly well with AD. There's also the fact that his damage is extremely well split between physical and magic damage, making it hard to build mitigation stats against him midgame if he gets ahead early.
I'm surprised they overlooked that. They just finished changing almost all of Irelia's damage to physical so she is easier to "stop"
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Ghostblade is actually really strong on him if you can get into melee. The steroid affects his ult, meaning you double the effect.
But at the same time that's part of why I question building him pure damage. If you use his ult on any steroid abusing ranged carry (or perhaps Yi) the damage it deals is crazier and harder for the enemy to deal with. In fact, any attack speed/damage buffs (and movespeed too iirc) carry over to the ghost, so if your team is Janna + Nidalee + Nunu + Yorick + Yi and everyone buffs the crap out of Yi you have two crazy buffed DPS tearing into the enemy team for 10s.
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On July 12 2011 02:11 scDeluX wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2011 02:03 JackDino wrote:
To anyone whining about making the app bannable, consider this: run LoL in windowed mode, have a program that's always on top show timers when you press a button, you can't ban it. It's like saying you shouldn't be allowed to have a browser running in the background. Your clueless, running a browser does not help you win your LoL game. This as been an ongoing discussion since 1999. Usually there are mainstream rules that apply to all tournaments. It's like remapping our BW hotkeys, sure you can do it but it's banned from tournaments so therefore, people who wants to get good at the game do not use it. Riot allowing such apps and not making it available to everyone is really questionable.
You are clueless, the app is a simple overlay, it doesn't inject code into LoL, it doesn't read anything fromLoL's process, its'a simple timer app which does the same as typing "dragon 23:06" in chat. It can't be banned, and if you lose the game because your opponent has said app you should consider playing some other game because it doesn't help you win, it helps you being a worse player and any half decent player shouldn't have an issue with it.
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United States47024 Posts
On July 12 2011 03:56 JackDino wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2011 02:11 scDeluX wrote:On July 12 2011 02:03 JackDino wrote:
To anyone whining about making the app bannable, consider this: run LoL in windowed mode, have a program that's always on top show timers when you press a button, you can't ban it. It's like saying you shouldn't be allowed to have a browser running in the background. Your clueless, running a browser does not help you win your LoL game. This as been an ongoing discussion since 1999. Usually there are mainstream rules that apply to all tournaments. It's like remapping our BW hotkeys, sure you can do it but it's banned from tournaments so therefore, people who wants to get good at the game do not use it. Riot allowing such apps and not making it available to everyone is really questionable. You are clueless, the app is a simple overlay, it doesn't inject code into LoL, it doesn't read anything fromLoL's process, its'a simple timer app which does the same as typing "dragon 23:06" in chat. It can't be banned, and if you lose the game because your opponent has said app you should consider playing some other game because it doesn't help you win, it helps you being a worse player and any half decent player shouldn't have an issue with it.
This is the crux of it. Because the timers don't actually interact with LoL in any way, it's pretty hard for Riot to do anything reasonable to catch people using it. They could do what Blizzard does with Warden, which is install what's essentially spyware and monitor your running processes while you're playing the game--but that was a pretty big fiasco when people first found out about it, and given the amount of questionable PR Riot already gets, I don't think they could deal with the repercussions of that.
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On July 12 2011 02:44 scDeluX wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2011 02:35 UniversalSnip wrote:
These programs exist in pretty much every real time game that's played at a high level. Yeah but they are not allowed in tournaments so top players and aspiring high lvls players don't use them. It makes a difference in the choice to use it or not, even if it's available. If any 1200 elo player uses an overlay, no one care. If TSM use the same overlay and get into a dispute in a tournament because of it, it becomes problematic.
They do, but they're banned in SC2, quake, WoW and any other game that doesn't display cooldowns on screen.
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Just curious, how do most people record timings? Do they just type it in chat and hit Z from time to time to check? Because i imagine that would run the risk of being pushed out of chat by excessive typing or events. If a teamfight occurs where 9 people die, with all the DOMINATING and who killed who, i'd imagine the timer could easily be lost.
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United States47024 Posts
On July 12 2011 04:10 [Agony]x90 wrote:
Just curious, how do most people record timings? Do they just type it in chat and hit Z from time to time to check? Because i imagine that would run the risk of being pushed out of chat by excessive typing or events. If a teamfight occurs where 9 people die, with all the DOMINATING and who killed who, i'd imagine the timer could easily be lost.
This is what I do. Though generally the act of typing it is enough for me to remember the timing.
It's mostly that typing it forces you to actually look at the time and take note--and is a fallback if other team members don't remember to track it.
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On July 12 2011 04:12 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2011 04:10 [Agony]x90 wrote:
Just curious, how do most people record timings? Do they just type it in chat and hit Z from time to time to check? Because i imagine that would run the risk of being pushed out of chat by excessive typing or events. If a teamfight occurs where 9 people die, with all the DOMINATING and who killed who, i'd imagine the timer could easily be lost. This is what I do. Though generally the act of typing it is enough for me to remember the timing. It's mostly that typing it forces you to actually look at the time and take note--and is a fallback if other team members don't remember to track it.
Well given we're gonna be on the same team for IvyLoL, maybe we could have a 6th person around in order to record buff, dragon and baron timings. That is, if having the 6th person present in legal. I mean, chances are, we'll all just be in Frist together for these games. We could project one person onto the big screen and then have a 6th person record timings :-p.
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On a completely separate, conversation-changing note:
http://www.riseofimmortals.com/
What do you make of this? I think I may DL the beta tonight just to see how it compares for shits, but it doesn't look like much, nor does I think it has any hope in hell of competing with LoL/DotA 2.
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EPT
