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On July 12 2011 01:17 rob.au wrote:
You can actually be a complete monkey and free farm on a champ like Corki vs lane Udyr, which in theory would put you at an advantage late-game. Having said that Udyr is just stupid in lane and they need to nerf the interaction between turtle and wriggles.
There are a few champions that give warwick trouble, specifically pushers and strong 1-4 champs. The problem is a lot of this can be negated by a jungler. I thought they would nerf him by increasing the mana cost of his Q in the earlier levels so that he just wouldn't be viable in lane...instead they nerfed his lategame which doesn't solve the solo q problem at least.
This just isn't true at all.
There are no champions that can give a lanewick trouble. People really need to stop pretending like lanewick is just a unique champion that fits in the game.
The ammount of life he gains from Q is in no way balanced to the ammount of damage that LoL champions can dish out. There is no champion that has the kind of damage and the kind of mana to deal with a lanewick.
The best you can do is not die, a good lanewick will get every single minion last hit and the only possibility when facing one is that you die. Under no possible situation will you ever defeat a proper lanewick. Playing draw is called winning.
Teaching people that lanewick can be defeated is like teaching people how to disarm a guy with a gun or a knife. You can teach them, they are gonna think they can actually do it and next time they face such a person they will end up dead.
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On July 12 2011 01:34 zalz wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2011 01:17 rob.au wrote:
You can actually be a complete monkey and free farm on a champ like Corki vs lane Udyr, which in theory would put you at an advantage late-game. Having said that Udyr is just stupid in lane and they need to nerf the interaction between turtle and wriggles.
There are a few champions that give warwick trouble, specifically pushers and strong 1-4 champs. The problem is a lot of this can be negated by a jungler. I thought they would nerf him by increasing the mana cost of his Q in the earlier levels so that he just wouldn't be viable in lane...instead they nerfed his lategame which doesn't solve the solo q problem at least. This just isn't true at all. There are no champions that can give a lanewick trouble. People really need to stop pretending like lanewick is just a unique champion that fits in the game. The ammount of life he gains from Q is in no way balanced to the ammount of damage that LoL champions can dish out. There is no champion that has the kind of damage and the kind of mana to deal with a lanewick. The best you can do is not die, a good lanewick will get every single minion last hit and the only possibility when facing one is that you die. Under no possible situation will you ever defeat a proper lanewick. Playing draw is called winning. Teaching people that lanewick can be defeated is like teaching people how to disarm a guy with a gun or a knife. You can teach them, they are gonna think they can actually do it and next time they face such a person they will end up dead.
play my teemo with lanewick, k?
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United States37500 Posts
On July 12 2011 01:34 zalz wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2011 01:17 rob.au wrote:
You can actually be a complete monkey and free farm on a champ like Corki vs lane Udyr, which in theory would put you at an advantage late-game. Having said that Udyr is just stupid in lane and they need to nerf the interaction between turtle and wriggles.
There are a few champions that give warwick trouble, specifically pushers and strong 1-4 champs. The problem is a lot of this can be negated by a jungler. I thought they would nerf him by increasing the mana cost of his Q in the earlier levels so that he just wouldn't be viable in lane...instead they nerfed his lategame which doesn't solve the solo q problem at least. This just isn't true at all. There are no champions that can give a lanewick trouble. People really need to stop pretending like lanewick is just a unique champion that fits in the game. The ammount of life he gains from Q is in no way balanced to the ammount of damage that LoL champions can dish out. There is no champion that has the kind of damage and the kind of mana to deal with a lanewick. The best you can do is not die, a good lanewick will get every single minion last hit and the only possibility when facing one is that you die. Under no possible situation will you ever defeat a proper lanewick. Playing draw is called winning. Teaching people that lanewick can be defeated is like teaching people how to disarm a guy with a gun or a knife. You can teach them, they are gonna think they can actually do it and next time they face such a person they will end up dead.
Blanket statements ftl
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Using the timer add-on should be considered cheating.
Riot allowing it adds insult to injury. Make it part of the game or make it ban-able. There should be no : "Yes you can plug your 3rd party app on our game, no prob !".
What happens when someone brings it to a tournament and there is a dispute about it? On one side Riot allowed it and on the other people like me consider it as cheating, wtf seriously.
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On July 12 2011 01:58 scDeluX wrote:
Using the timer add-on should be considered cheating.
Riot allowing it adds insult to injury. Make it part of the game or make it ban-able. There should be no : "Yes you can plug your 3rd party app on our game, no prob !".
What happens when someone brings it to a tournament and there is a dispute about it? On one side Riot allowed it and on the other people like me consider it as cheating, wtf seriously.
I agree with this. It's just stupid for a game with no autocasts or other sources of help to the players to allow a tool like that.
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To anyone whining about making the app bannable, consider this: run LoL in windowed mode, have a program that's always on top show timers when you press a button, you can't ban it. It's like saying you shouldn't be allowed to have a browser running in the background.
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On July 12 2011 02:03 JackDino wrote:
To anyone whining about making the app bannable, consider this: run LoL in windowed mode, have a program that's always on top show timers when you press a button, you can't ban it. It's like saying you shouldn't be allowed to have a browser running in the background.
Your clueless, running a browser does not help you win your LoL game.
This as been an ongoing discussion since 1999. Usually there are mainstream rules that apply to all tournaments. It's like remapping our BW hotkeys, sure you can do it but it's banned from tournaments so therefore, people who wants to get good at the game do not use it.
Riot allowing such apps and not making it available to everyone is really questionable.
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can you link to said app? i wanna check it out
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On July 12 2011 02:03 JackDino wrote:
To anyone whining about making the app bannable, consider this: run LoL in windowed mode, have a program that's always on top show timers when you press a button, you can't ban it. It's like saying you shouldn't be allowed to have a browser running in the background.
Just because there are other ways to do the same thing (second monitor or iphone/pad with the app running?) doesn't mean they shouldnt officially ban things like that which interact with the game itself and give you an unfair advantage.
I mean even in WoW where you can do almost anything with addons Blizzard banned/disabled some functionalities because it gives an unfair advantage or makes the game too trivial.
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I have not paid any attention to this, but I assumed that the problem came from gaining the extra information of knowing when the buff was respawning after clearing a buff your opponents got the last time. If the app can't do that, I can't see really having a problem with it.
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No it's just a macro-based app where when a buff/drag/bar is killed you hit a button and it sets a timer to button-clicked-time+6m or something stupid and simple like that. No different from typing it in the damn chat. Silly tears imo.
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United States47024 Posts
On July 12 2011 02:14 Woony wrote:
I mean even in WoW where you can do almost anything with addons Blizzard banned/disabled some functionalities because it gives an unfair advantage or makes the game too trivial.
Actually, stopping stuff like arena addons that track enemy CD timers (which is pretty much analogous to this) are only really enforceable at live events. Plenty of people use those kinds of addons for regular laddering--the top teams don't because they don't want to get used to relying on them when they have to go to a live event, but other than that, there's pretty much nothing stopping mid-high level teams from using those sorts of addons.
On July 12 2011 02:17 Southlight wrote:
No it's just a macro-based app where when a buff/drag/bar is killed you hit a button and it sets a timer to button-clicked-time+6m or something stupid and simple like that. No different from typing it in the damn chat. Silly tears imo.
Wait what? If that's all it does, I have no problem with it. Auto-tracking those things is silly, but if you still have to remember to hit a button manually when the buff/monster is killed, then yeah it's pretty much just the same as typing it in chat.
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yea, that's pretty silly to cry about. I mean, sure, it makes doing something easier, but it's a macro for a pretty damn simple task that too many people neglect. Just don't neglect it and he'll have no advantage over you.
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I know dozens of apps like that exist for all games and you can do it on your phone/second monitor/windowed of whatever, but Riot giving approval to this is the thing that bugs me.
Imagine if an app would detect Malz ult and automatically start a timer on your screen so you know exactly when it's back, would you consider it fair?
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United States47024 Posts
The hard part is remembering to do it, anyway. If you can remember to hit a button on the app interface, you can remember to add 6 minutes to the current time and type "drag x time"
On July 12 2011 02:23 scDeluX wrote:
Imagine if an app would detect Malz ult and automatically start a timer on your screen so you know exactly when it's back, would you consider it fair?
OK you really need to clarify. Does the app automatically track the buffs when they're downed, or do you still have to manually tell it to start tracking the time?
You're being vague about how much human effort needs to go into starting the timer, and it's not helping the discussion.
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Honestly, keeping track of certain ults by typing time in chat sounds like a good idea that never occurred to me. But yes, I'd consider it fair, because it's doing nothing that you can't do with typing/mental note.
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United States47024 Posts
On July 12 2011 02:24 Southlight wrote:
Honestly, keeping track of certain ults by typing time in chat sounds like a good idea that never occurred to me. But yes, I'd consider it fair, because it's doing nothing that you can't do with typing/mental note.
Tracking summoners would arguably be more useful, and its way easier to remember the CDs for each summoner.
The big problem with tracking ults is that you don't know how much CDR they have, and when runed/masteried CDR can vary by like 15%, that's a significant amount of error on tracking long-CD ults.
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On July 12 2011 02:23 TheYango wrote:
You're being vague about how much human effort needs to go into starting the timer, and it's not helping the discussion.
I believed that the public app uses F1-F5 keys or Numpad so it's basically just a macro. You still have to press a key after the monster dies.
On July 12 2011 02:24 Southlight wrote:
Honestly, keeping track of certain ults by typing time in chat sounds like a good idea that never occurred to me. But yes, I'd consider it fair, because it's doing nothing that you can't do with typing/mental note.
But how far away are we from frame detection?
Honestly I don't think that any 3rd party apps should be legal but again, it's just my opinion,
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On July 12 2011 02:21 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2011 02:14 Woony wrote:
I mean even in WoW where you can do almost anything with addons Blizzard banned/disabled some functionalities because it gives an unfair advantage or makes the game too trivial. Actually, stopping stuff like arena addons that track enemy CD timers (which is pretty much analogous to this) are only really enforceable at live events. Plenty of people use those kinds of addons for regular laddering--the top teams don't because they don't want to get used to relying on them when they have to go to a live event, but other than that, there's pretty much nothing stopping mid-high level teams from using those sorts of addons.
Im not talking about those. I'm talking for example about that one addon which could paint the ground and show you where every encounter would place his shit and show where to stand, making every boss pretty trivial. Of course that's not the best comparison but my point is they should either officially dissalow it or make it available for everyone in the client. Blizzard addopted a large list of features from addons over the years and added them into the client.
I think HoN had an addon problem for a while in beta where people would make ridiculous shit like show you the range of skills even though the regular UI wouldn't making a large potion of skill trivial but I forgot how S2 handled the thing.
I'm not saying this thing is making the game trivial (it's realistically a rather small advantage) but I think it's crossed the border of what is acceptable as an addon in LoL and should be at least officially dissalowed. Of course If people want to use it, they still can but thats another thing.
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These programs exist in pretty much every real time game that's played at a high level. There's not really anything you can do about them, so I don't see much point banning them.
In other games I don't think they even provide much of an edge because they eat your apm, so a manually timing player will have a mechanical advantage. Lol's apm reqs are very low though so I guess that's not true here
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EPT
