EPTJune 30 Patch General Discussion - Page 4
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Garbels
Austria653 Posts
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FeyFey
Germany10114 Posts
And I thought Living bomb friendly fire would be annoying. Not sure it was mentioned before, but I think Mule lost alot of value on blackhearts bay. With the lowered hp on the towers. 1 pay 1 complete keep gone. So all this damage the towers a little before paying interaction in the early game gone. | ||
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Markwerf
Netherlands3728 Posts
Yes his damage at full stacks is insane and he can take down a squishie very quickly but he's feeling a bit weak to me for 2 reasons: - pretty damn awful at laning, you need to do it a bit to get your stacks up but it's a chore with him. Your charge is slowish so dangerous near towers, as when you cancel it you still have some problems and take same damage. More importantly though, his self heal is annoying to use if you aren't fighting other heroes in combat where you can just hit them. Thrall could chain lightning, heal himself up a bit etc. butcher doesn't do that. Pretty much he needs to be unopposed in lane or piggyback with another hero to easily get the stacks quickly and when people are near towers still he can't do all too much. Mercing with him is alright but an early death on him sucks to have to get back those stacks to be at power for teamfights. - feels too easy to deny his brand, only the branded hero needs to GTFO and he is left helpless. Thrall can switch targets, get healing on range through chain lightning etc. but butcher needs brand to work well or just get nuked. Smart opponents I feel just prevent that with an escape or stuff like ice block when getting branded. You can build to survive nuke a little bit with spell shield or something but you're still going down quickly if that heal isn't connecting. Especially muradin shits on him I feel, just stun him after he charged and take the reduced attack speed on clap, butcher will have trouble getting that healing going. I don't know thrall never really got off and before he was properly explored perhaps he was already nerfed. Opinions still differ if he ever was too good actually (i think not) but that point is moot now. I just have a feeling butcher will suffer a similar fate, not good in pro play but lots of 'omg rediculous' videos and a nerf afterwards. I like to be wrong though as it does bring something fresh to the table and perhaps with proper (cleanse) support and the right play around him he will shine. | ||
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Hider
Denmark9448 Posts
Oh and I think Aba might be better then Vikings again. So I hope they remove a few of the speed debuffs on the Vikings. To increase their survivability Dno, I think its okay if they have weaker core stats and you instead can customize your talents more with the heroes. E.g. to compensate for their lack of speed you can pick the level 16-marathon talent that increases their movement speed when you press "Z". It's just that I feel some of their talents aren't as interesting/strong/impactful as they could be. I also have a bit of a difficult time seeing the advantage of picking LV over Abathur (besides the pre-10 soaking). | ||
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States46620 Posts
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Roe
Canada6002 Posts
On July 02 2015 06:51 Garbels wrote: Butcher can cancel the charge so it should not be a problem unless I'm misunderstanding you. I've seen so many Butchers just sprint right into a 5 man stomp in the past couple days, if it's true you can cancel it... just wow. | ||
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FeyFey
Germany10114 Posts
One game we lost 4 and they 3. But thanks to Zagara vision it looked like they wouldn't come to the Tribute. Was QM with 2 Butchers. So their Butcher suddenly made a beeline to the Tribute were i send our Butcher. since I knew the other butcher had vision near the Tribute I was scared he would kill ours. But Creep saw everything. Our Butcher used furnace and just exploded their hurt Butcher the moment he arrived. I saw an amazing save also. Butcher got cornered between the lanes. Screamed "Fresh Meat" and ran towards enemy minions on the lane lol. Was body blocked and slowed, but got away against 4. | ||
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Ramiz1989
12124 Posts
On July 02 2015 21:11 Roe wrote: I've seen so many Butchers just sprint right into a 5 man stomp in the past couple days, if it's true you can cancel it... just wow. Yeah, a ton of people don't know to play, what's new. :D | ||
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FeyFey
Germany10114 Posts
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Ramiz1989
12124 Posts
On July 02 2015 22:20 FeyFey wrote: Still not as bad as Zombie Wall grief. Nazeboo is not so bad on the new map, hope he won't be used by pros. Don't want people to start using ravenous spirit again and stick to the bad colossus ult. I really disagree with you here, Ravenous Spirit has its uses but it is heavily nerfed and Gargantuan is just straight up better a lot of times with improved AI. Maybe you could use Ravenous on new map as it has a lot of objects that block line of sight so you could channel it from safety, but it is still hard to catch anyone with it unless your team has a lot of CC and even then you could be interrupted easily from range. One of the strengths that Gargantuan has is that you just cast it and forget about it, occasionally clicking R again for his stomp. Your hero is free to move around, kite, auto-attack and cast spells and with Leaping Spiders and Gargantuan he is doing a ton of damage even when he isn't near enemy. If you pick up Ravenous Spirit, you have to constantly follow whole enemy team, their positioning, you keep "hiding" yourself from them and careful position yourself so you couldn't be interrupted, your other spells have a lot lower range than Spirit which means that you can cast just Spirit from afar, or get closer to the fight to cast all other spells and then Spirit while being in danger of interruption. If you want to cast all of your spells and then get back for Spirit it might take too much time for you to do that. Not even mentioning that if they jump on you, you can still use all 4 spells with Gargantuan, while Spirit ulti is basically useless in that situation. Later in the game with upgraded Gargantuan, if you aren't reckless you will have him all the time near you, you can clear Mercs in a matter of seconds, your damage against buildings with him is enormous(pretty much like Dragon Knight/Plant in the late game) and doing boss becomes piece of cake. I don't know, since the patch where Ravenous Spirit is nerfed I've picked it quite a lot at the start but it was very hard to make it work. It didn't have nearly the same effect it had before. Then I start using Gargantuan(that was utter shit before) and it actually was quite alright, a lot better than pre-patch and definitely had more success with him than with Spirit. Just my opinion but seeing Hots Logs, most played and successful builds on top level have Gargantuan in it. | ||
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fruity.
England1711 Posts
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Tenks
United States3104 Posts
On July 02 2015 21:11 Roe wrote: I've seen so many Butchers just sprint right into a 5 man stomp in the past couple days, if it's true you can cancel it... just wow. Most Nazeebos don't even know you can lower zombie wall so how would you expect your average Heroes player to be able to know you can cancel butcher E | ||
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FreeZEternal
Korea (South)3396 Posts
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States46620 Posts
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Tenks
United States3104 Posts
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RouaF
France4121 Posts
The thing I don't like about this rework/nerf is that they lost tons of things but almost gained nothing in return, you have the globe talent by default (yey...) and a bribe at lvl 1 that's only half decent if you split all 3 vikings, then some mostly shitty talents at lvl 4 (or 7? I don't remember). Having bribe on E just seems plain stupid, I wonder what went through the devs head to let such anomaly go live, they probably had no f****g clue as to how to fill that E... If only they at least gave us good options to replace the active talents the rework might have worked... right now it just looks like very poor design. My bet is they had no idea how to solve the x3 soak problem and decided to put them into shit tier so this problem doesn't really exist anymore, a bit like how Teemo is always nerfed really hard in LoL if he becomes relevant because they don't want games with mushrooms oneshotting people all around the map. | ||
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States46620 Posts
On July 03 2015 02:55 RouaF wrote: Well I had to try it to confirm it : the vikings are basically useless now, unless you want to splitpush all game (something that has never ever worked since alpha...) Losing spin to win or shield is huge, getting the jump only at lvl 13 is huge too, the full rez timer hurts so much... etc etc etc. The thing I don't like about this rework/nerf is that they lost tons of things but almost gained nothing in return, you have the globe talent by default (yey...) and a bribe at lvl 1 that's only half decent if you split all 3 vikings, then some mostly shitty talents at lvl 4 (or 7? I don't remember). Having bribe on E just seems plain stupid, I wonder what went through the devs head to let such anomaly go live, they probably had no f****g clue as to how to fill that E... If only they at least gave us good options to replace the active talents the rework might have worked... right now it just looks like very poor design. My bet is they had no idea how to solve the x3 soak problem and decided to put them into shit tier so this problem doesn't really exist anymore, a bit like how Teemo is always nerfed really hard in LoL if he becomes relevant because they don't want games with mushrooms oneshotting people all around the map. Why couldn't they just adjust the exp% from each viking? x.x | ||
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Hider
Denmark9448 Posts
The thing I don't like about this rework/nerf is that they lost tons of things but almost gained nothing in return, you have the globe talent by default (yey...) and a bribe at lvl 1 that's only half decent if you split all 3 vikings, then some mostly shitty talents at lvl 4 (or 7? I don't remember). Having bribe on E just seems plain stupid, I wonder what went through the devs head to let such anomaly go live, they probably had no f****g clue as to how to fill that E. Balrog splash talent is pretty good at level 1 is pretty good if you wanna push lanes (which you can only do if you splitpush). But why wasn't the Erik-stealth talent removed? What's the point of stealthing him? It doesn't fit him at all and is a waste of a talent-spot. | ||
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Advocado
Denmark994 Posts
Quick wombo combo play plug: | ||
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States46620 Posts
On July 03 2015 04:58 Advocado wrote: Out of curiosity where do you guys go to find a team to play in? I basically solo QM until I find a team where we win and work together effectively, then I mass-Invite them to Party. And then after 2-3 party games, I Add them as Friends, which makes my list of available partymates grow  Then we'll do QM or HL matches... it's nice to not have completely random allies in HL. | ||
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