Falstad's about to drop out completely with Gathering Power nerf though. But your point is still valid and I agree. I think a line should be drawn at 45%ish win rate and those heroes should be looked at. Right now Hotslogs says that's Kerrigan, Brightwing, Chen, ETC, Tassadar, Stitches. Kerrigan and Brightwing are getting buffs, Tass is getting some small tweaks, and they are fixing a major Chen bug. I think that's enough for a major patch, but they should look at Stitches and ETC if they are still there next time around.

I also don't think they need to rework several unused heroes every time, just a few changes can go a long way.

xDaunt

United States17988 Posts

August 17 2015 18:07 GMT

#362

Yeah, Falstad is about to become trash tier. He needs some help. Stitches could use some improvement to his numbers, but the bottom line is that he should be a hero who lives and dies by the hook. Players that land hooks will always do well with Stitches. Players that can't will always suck with him. That's how it should be. BW should be significantly fixed with this next patch. Tassadar could use some buffing on his damage numbers. He's been over-nerfed, but he's not in a terrible place overall. I think Chen is better than people give him credit for, but he could probably use some love on his damage output given that's not particularly good at peeling unless he's using Wandering Keg. Kerrigan is getting hugely buffed with this next patch and will be a beast.

MotherFox

United States1529 Posts

August 17 2015 18:15 GMT

#363

It feels like bliz tends to go overboard with nerfs by coming up with several ideas and applying all at once. Happened with brightwing, and is happening with gathering power nerf + spell shield buff. Some characters really depended on gathering power to get anything done, meanwhile many top-tier assassins [valla, jaina, zeratul] don't rely on it at all.

Speaking of valla and zeratul--- I feel like the spellshield+GP changes affect them the least by far, so I'm kind of readying myself for them to be pretty hotly contested?

Valiver

Caldeum1977 Posts

August 17 2015 18:24 GMT

#364

The Imposing Presence nerf, Spell Shield buff, and Gathering Power nerf all make auto-attackers look a lot stronger yes. Valla very well could be back in the meta very soon.

Thezzy

Netherlands2117 Posts

August 17 2015 19:25 GMT

#365

Valla hasn't left the meta, I see her often in pro games, though not every single one.

With the reduced burst damage I think Illidan and Kerrigan will be seen a lot more as well, since they won't be blown up as fast as before.

Ramiz1989

12124 Posts

August 17 2015 22:28 GMT

#366

On August 18 2015 04:25 Thezzy wrote:
Valla hasn't left the meta, I see her often in pro games, though not every single one.

With the reduced burst damage I think Illidan and Kerrigan will be seen a lot more as well, since they won't be blown up as fast as before.

Don't forget the Butcher!

Valla already made a big comeback with the current 2-3 tanks "meta" as she is doing quite a bit there. It's true that she never really left but she is picked a lot more often than months before where Kael'Thas, Jaina, Nazeebo, Zagara and few others were top picks instead of her.

FeyFey

Germany10114 Posts

August 17 2015 23:59 GMT

#367

2 Tank meta just plopped up because of the double Specialist play. And Giant Slayer rocks the double tanks. I am surprised that it was Valla though. Tychus is pretty cool for that with the buffs, but I guess Valla usually dodges the damage and doesn't need heal attention.

As for Falstad, he dropped out because the maps he is good on are played less and that dive comps came back. To much Mura, Anub and Illidan.

But while they buff auto attackers, they nerf Melee alot with cleanse change. So not sure about seeing more Melee Assassins. Well unless you go with Lili and survive until 16.

Anyway after this patch I would be really worried about Zera, if I would like him xD.

Wuster

1974 Posts

August 18 2015 00:50 GMT

#368

Zera's probably the best hero in the game right now, so I wouldn't worry too much about him.

I agree with you why Valla came back over Tychus, because she's always been better at poking and that's what you'd rather have when every heal (other than Lili) has a non-negligible cooldown attached to them.

For some reason I thought Falstad's went AA build now (and he has Giant Killer for those tanks!), so I didn't realize the GP change is going to hit him that hard. Otherwise he offers a lot of the same things Valla does.

Garsecg

United States129 Posts

August 18 2015 04:40 GMT

#369

On August 18 2015 08:59 FeyFey wrote:
2 Tank meta just plopped up because of the double Specialist play. And Giant Slayer rocks the double tanks. I am surprised that it was Valla though. Tychus is pretty cool for that with the buffs, but I guess Valla usually dodges the damage and doesn't need heal attention.

As for Falstad, he dropped out because the maps he is good on are played less and that dive comps came back. To much Mura, Anub and Illidan.

But while they buff auto attackers, they nerf Melee alot with cleanse change. So not sure about seeing more Melee Assassins. Well unless you go with Lili and survive until 16.

Anyway after this patch I would be really worried about Zera, if I would like him xD.

They directly buffed Thrall and Kerrigan this patch, and as mentioned, Zeratul was left untouched. That's the majority of melee assassins (3/5). The other two assassins are Illidan and Butcher, which I would argue are situationally viable depending on composition and map.

I don't understand how melee were indirectly nerfed with the cleanse change, perhaps you could illuminate your reasoning? If anything, I feel like melee were indirectly buffed because cleanse is relatively less powerful, thereby making the CC abilities of Kerrigan, Butcher and Thrall relatively greater.

Valiver

Caldeum1977 Posts

August 18 2015 06:01 GMT

#370

Cleanse could be used on melee assassins to save them though. So yes their CCs are potentially stronger, but CC against them is too.

Markwerf

Netherlands3728 Posts

August 18 2015 09:43 GMT

#371

2 tanks meta has other reasons. It's because warriors in general are quite nice now and the best warriors tend to do better in a duo warrior role. Leoric, anub'arak and tyrael do better as off-tank typically and Johanna can often often use another warrior for engagement quite well. Plus the good warriors have good waveclear so being short on waveclear because of two warriors is not much of a problem.
Another big reason are the supports, they lack the burst healing that they had before when protective shield was nerfed/removed so a top support like Malf is not as great in a composition of 3 squishies, 1 tank and malf so double warrior gained ground there. The 'off-supports' tassadar & tyrande are pretty bad now so using them to fill the gap in burst healing is not so ideal.
Finally other melee roles except zeratul are all not so popular so instead of warrior + melee assassin it's typically double warrior now. I don't think it has anything to do with double specialist which isn't even more popular now. Zagara is popular, Nazeebo and Abathur soso but the rest not so much, before with sylv as standard first pick they were more popular.

Monk, Kerrigan, tassadar and leoric changes might shake things up. Monk/tassadar may be great in duo support setups (again), Kerrigan looks good again and Leoric might not be as fantastic anymore making other setups than double warrior popular perhaps.

Garsecg

United States129 Posts

August 18 2015 14:21 GMT

#372

On August 18 2015 18:43 Markwerf wrote:

Show nested quote +

One point to add to expand on your ideas: the last few tanks have been very good at wave-clearing (Johanna + Leoric), and I think that also has a lot to do with the 2-3 warrior meta being more viable than in the past.