On July 09 2015 00:02 Larkin wrote: Why would Blizzard put Blackheart's Bay back into rotation when obviously everyone hates it and doesn't want to play it? We wanted Dragon Shire and Garden of Terror etc back in rotation, not Bay ;;
BB is my favorite map and DS and GoT are my two least favorites.
Why?
I feel like GoT is largely redundant when it comes to gathering seeds, because it's just like gathering HM skulls but there's no confrontation (most of the time, one team goes one terror and the other team goes the other terror). And I just get tired of the final objective being "Summon Giant X", whether it's a DK or a Terror or even an Immortal. At least with BB and CH, there are forced battles over objectives that focus on different things.
I understand the sentiment. But BB plays so horribly imo. The gimmick - free, indefensible siege damage - is really irritating to me; I have this issue with Sky Temple too, but at least there you can continuously contest the temples.
BB's design, with the multiple lanes in mid etc just adds to it being a bit of a clusterfuck. I'm not massively keen on Cursed Hollow for the horrible fights around the tributes for the same reason. But then again I play ranged assassin/specialists pretty much exclusively, so maybe that's why.
Yeah I like hammer or zeratul on BB Then again, I'm totally fine with having all these maps in the map pool with a simple veto system, even for QM (much like how the SC2 map pool allows you to veto ~3 out of 8 maps). That way, you can veto BB and I can veto GoT
Zeratul is basically the bane of my existence, so yeah.
Veto system has to come soon. I was crying out even just for a "veto last played map" for the next search, because when it was only the four maps in rotation I played 3 30 minute games on Cursed Hollow in a row and I nearly died.
Ideally search restrictions would allow for balanced games (rather than high MMR of one or two players meaning they match you with a crap team and far superior opponents, or so it would seem) and balanced hero choice in QM, so each team has to have 1 tank and 1 healer, for example. So many games as Sylvanas I see no one but assassins and specialists.
Yeah I'm definitely with you on the whole "veto last map" option, and I agree with you that both teams should be consistent with the same hero types on both teams. I've read that Blizzard tries to at least give both teams the same number of healers, but in practice I see that that's not necessarily the case.
On July 09 2015 00:02 Larkin wrote: Why would Blizzard put Blackheart's Bay back into rotation when obviously everyone hates it and doesn't want to play it? We wanted Dragon Shire and Garden of Terror etc back in rotation, not Bay ;;
BB is my favorite map and DS and GoT are my two least favorites.
Why?
I feel like GoT is largely redundant when it comes to gathering seeds, because it's just like gathering HM skulls but there's no confrontation (most of the time, one team goes one terror and the other team goes the other terror). And I just get tired of the final objective being "Summon Giant X", whether it's a DK or a Terror or even an Immortal. At least with BB and CH, there are forced battles over objectives that focus on different things.
I understand the sentiment. But BB plays so horribly imo. The gimmick - free, indefensible siege damage - is really irritating to me; I have this issue with Sky Temple too, but at least there you can continuously contest the temples.
BB's design, with the multiple lanes in mid etc just adds to it being a bit of a clusterfuck. I'm not massively keen on Cursed Hollow for the horrible fights around the tributes for the same reason. But then again I play ranged assassin/specialists pretty much exclusively, so maybe that's why.
Yeah I like hammer or zeratul on BB Then again, I'm totally fine with having all these maps in the map pool with a simple veto system, even for QM (much like how the SC2 map pool allows you to veto ~3 out of 8 maps). That way, you can veto BB and I can veto GoT
Zeratul is basically the bane of my existence, so yeah.
Veto system has to come soon. I was crying out even just for a "veto last played map" for the next search, because when it was only the four maps in rotation I played 3 30 minute games on Cursed Hollow in a row and I nearly died.
Ideally search restrictions would allow for balanced games (rather than high MMR of one or two players meaning they match you with a crap team and far superior opponents, or so it would seem) and balanced hero choice in QM, so each team has to have 1 tank and 1 healer, for example. So many games as Sylvanas I see no one but assassins and specialists.
Yeah I'm definitely with you on the whole "veto last map" option, and I agree with you that both teams should be consistent with the same hero types on both teams. I've read that Blizzard tries to at least give both teams the same number of healers, but in practice I see that that's not necessarily the case.
Two same maps in the row happen very very rarely, they've changed that few patches ago. It happened in the last 2 weeks because we had only 4 maps in the pool.
On July 09 2015 00:02 Larkin wrote: Why would Blizzard put Blackheart's Bay back into rotation when obviously everyone hates it and doesn't want to play it? We wanted Dragon Shire and Garden of Terror etc back in rotation, not Bay ;;
BB is my favorite map and DS and GoT are my two least favorites.
Why?
I feel like GoT is largely redundant when it comes to gathering seeds, because it's just like gathering HM skulls but there's no confrontation (most of the time, one team goes one terror and the other team goes the other terror). And I just get tired of the final objective being "Summon Giant X", whether it's a DK or a Terror or even an Immortal. At least with BB and CH, there are forced battles over objectives that focus on different things.
I understand the sentiment. But BB plays so horribly imo. The gimmick - free, indefensible siege damage - is really irritating to me; I have this issue with Sky Temple too, but at least there you can continuously contest the temples.
BB's design, with the multiple lanes in mid etc just adds to it being a bit of a clusterfuck. I'm not massively keen on Cursed Hollow for the horrible fights around the tributes for the same reason. But then again I play ranged assassin/specialists pretty much exclusively, so maybe that's why.
Yeah I like hammer or zeratul on BB Then again, I'm totally fine with having all these maps in the map pool with a simple veto system, even for QM (much like how the SC2 map pool allows you to veto ~3 out of 8 maps). That way, you can veto BB and I can veto GoT
Zeratul is basically the bane of my existence, so yeah.
Veto system has to come soon. I was crying out even just for a "veto last played map" for the next search, because when it was only the four maps in rotation I played 3 30 minute games on Cursed Hollow in a row and I nearly died.
Ideally search restrictions would allow for balanced games (rather than high MMR of one or two players meaning they match you with a crap team and far superior opponents, or so it would seem) and balanced hero choice in QM, so each team has to have 1 tank and 1 healer, for example. So many games as Sylvanas I see no one but assassins and specialists.
Yeah I'm definitely with you on the whole "veto last map" option, and I agree with you that both teams should be consistent with the same hero types on both teams. I've read that Blizzard tries to at least give both teams the same number of healers, but in practice I see that that's not necessarily the case.
Two same maps in the row happen very very rarely, they've changed that few patches ago. It happened in the last 2 weeks because we had only 4 maps in the pool.
We're back to a bigger map pool now, right? Because I'm still getting back-to-back identical maps with a decent frequency.
On July 10 2015 08:56 Hier wrote: So with today's bug patch Blizzard removed everyone from my friend's list and removed me from my friends' lists. Had to manually re-add people I play with. Anyone else have a similar issue?
Whoa what??? Fortunately, this wasn't the case for me.
More specifically my friend list from the European server got wiped. HotS is just where I first saw it. At first I thought it was just a bug with the client not seeing the list, but then I just re-added my friend as if for the first time.
Anyway, more on topic. I wish Gazlowe would have 3 basic abilities like the other heroes. I don't understand why Blizzard would only give him 2... must be an oversight.
On July 10 2015 08:56 Hier wrote: So with today's bug patch Blizzard removed everyone from my friend's list and removed me from my friends' lists. Had to manually re-add people I play with. Anyone else have a similar issue?
Whoa what??? Fortunately, this wasn't the case for me.
Anyway, more on topic. I wish Gazlowe would have 3 basic abilities like the other heroes. I don't understand why Blizzard would only give him 2... must be an oversight.
The removal of Sprint on Jaina really made me wonder, what kind of base-line they have for future assassins. The idea of no escape before 20 really sets an example of how you wanna play this game (and how you don't play it xd).
Played Z build with BW last night with TLV on my team. It felt like I could Z 3+ times per team fight.
We still lost because TLV put out less damage than my BW but the guy controlling them was really competent. Very smart at split pushing with them. Only downside is they're so bad it was basically trying to eek out a kill here and there because every fight would be basically 5v4 because TLV added nothing.
On July 11 2015 03:05 Tenks wrote: Played Z build with BW last night with TLV on my team. It felt like I could Z 3+ times per team fight.
We still lost because TLV put out less damage than my BW but the guy controlling them was really competent. Very smart at split pushing with them. Only downside is they're so bad it was basically trying to eek out a kill here and there because every fight would be basically 5v4 because TLV added nothing.
By z-build do you mean just taking all the z-talents? I have been enjoying taking hypershift and phase shield, but mixing in manic pixie instead of peekaboo.
In general, other than hyper-shift(1) and bouncy-dust(16) it seems most of brightwing's talents are not very synergy-based. This is one design aspect I like on various characters: whenever you are building for synergies that stack on top of each other, it seems like characters end up with one build with little room for deviation. bw is fun precisely because you can play her/him reactively instead of following builds.
On July 11 2015 03:05 Tenks wrote: Played Z build with BW last night with TLV on my team. It felt like I could Z 3+ times per team fight.
We still lost because TLV put out less damage than my BW but the guy controlling them was really competent. Very smart at split pushing with them. Only downside is they're so bad it was basically trying to eek out a kill here and there because every fight would be basically 5v4 because TLV added nothing.
By z-build do you mean just taking all the z-talents? I have been enjoying taking hypershift and phase shield, but mixing in manic pixie instead of peekaboo.
In general, other than hyper-shift(1) and bouncy-dust(16) it seems most of brightwing's talents are not very synergy-based. This is one design aspect I like on various characters: whenever you are building for synergies that stack on top of each other, it seems like characters end up with one build with little room for deviation. bw is fun precisely because you can play her/him reactively instead of following builds.
There was a Zeratul on the team and it was Garden so I was getting good value out of Peekabo. I'd probably take it on tomb as well regardless of if there was a stealther or not. The build was Z 1-7, Blink, E Ability Dmg, Extended Poly, Mist. The extended poly was also a reaction to them having an Anub that loved to BC for initiation and also a Zeratul. Possibly I could have gotten more value at 20 with storm shield but the fights were generally lasting a while.
Don't underestimate Peek, though. It obviously has a non-tangible effect but being able to clearly see the entire battlefield for 6 seconds is often times huge
If there is another support on the team I'll take peek no problem. Without pixie dust I have been feeling my healing coming up short since the patch, though.
edit->
continuing on brightwing topics...has anyone found a decent way to get her to have waveclear again? I tried a flare build once and never went back...lately I've been thinking about unstable anomaly for that purpose, but haven't gotten around to testing it in an actual game.
I'd be extremely reluctant to use my W to clear waves because it has such a long cooldown. You'd have to have a 100% guarantee there is no chance of you getting ganked for the next 15 seconds to use it for wave clear.
I still think the best BW talent at 4 is unstable anomaly -- it essentially adds 10k+ does to your final score. I haven't played with the lvl 4 shield damage talent too much -- how much do you think it adds to BW's heals? I remember trying it for a game and feeling underwhelmed.
the pixie dust heal at lvl 4 essentially gives an extra dose of healing from your passive every time you cast pixie dust. Since pixie dust has a cooldown of 10 secs and your passive bursts every 5 secs, you get about 1 pixie dust for every 2 passive bursts.
So for one particular target it increases your passive's healing by 50% for one target(2 once you get bouncy dust). Seems pretty good to me, since you can keep your pixie dust up almost all the time.
On the other hand, Unstable anomaly doesn't seem like a significant amount of damage at any level-- 90 at lvl 4, 250 at lvl 20, and it's an anti-combo with greater polymorph at 16. I was thinking about waveclear since small amounts of damage can frequently go to this purpose, but those damage levels won't even significantly damage waves of minions at those character levels....so I'm perplexed as to the purpose of unstable anomaly other than revealing cloaked chars. (edit- of course, hotslogs has unstable anomaly as having the biggest win rate right now, so I'm curious how exactly it is used...or if I am just underestimating the value of that damage)
Do people still honestly think TLV are bad this patch? I waited a few extra days on top of the 7 it takes to hotslogs to roll over. My prediction (on page 3) appears to be true. Vikings went from gratuitously, ridiculously OP (58%+ win rate) to being close to balanced, but still a 52% win rate. Even with all those nerfs, they are still winning more games than they are losing. Compare, again, to Abathur the other big soak hero, who still has a 46% win rate.
I know hotslogs aren't perfect stats, but really. TLV have a >50% win rate at every MMR bracket except Bronze, which is to be expected. They are still one of the best heroes in the game.
They just went from being the best soakers in the game, godlike in team fights, great at split pushing, damage immunity+mobility, and not being punished as hard for dying as other heroes to being the best soakers in the game, and mediocre to good at everything else. Yeah, they look bad now if you compare them to the most op hero I had ever seen in a moba ever that they were pre-patch. But they are still amazing.
The thing is, winrates don't tell you everything. They still mantain an above 50% winrate, but see the number of games and compare it to other heroes. Jaina for examples has 116007 games registered, TLV has 6393. And in every league they are one of the heroes with less games played, and less games registered means less accuracy.
I don't think they are unusable, but there are way better picks than them.
Since the patch I have not used vikings unless I have a team of four or five people on voicechat and we are pursuing a very specific strategy. In this context they do very well, but I no longer QM queue them.
Also, after the patch hit random players got really impatient with my playstyle of orb-farming and otherwise not doing much in lanes until I could form them up later. Not sure if that is just anecdotal, or if knowing that TLV got nerfed emboldened people to criticize their play.
edit-> To put the pick-frequency into perspective, the lost vikings went down in # of games played by about 10,000 when the patch when into effect. (!!!!)
On July 11 2015 03:56 MotherFox wrote: the pixie dust heal at lvl 4 essentially gives an extra dose of healing from your passive every time you cast pixie dust. Since pixie dust has a cooldown of 10 secs and your passive bursts every 5 secs, you get about 1 pixie dust for every 2 passive bursts.
So for one particular target it increases your passive's healing by 50% for one target(2 once you get bouncy dust). Seems pretty good to me, since you can keep your pixie dust up almost all the time.
On the other hand, Unstable anomaly doesn't seem like a significant amount of damage at any level-- 90 at lvl 4, 250 at lvl 20, and it's an anti-combo with greater polymorph at 16. I was thinking about waveclear since small amounts of damage can frequently go to this purpose, but those damage levels won't even significantly damage waves of minions at those character levels....so I'm perplexed as to the purpose of unstable anomaly other than revealing cloaked chars. (edit- of course, hotslogs has unstable anomaly as having the biggest win rate right now, so I'm curious how exactly it is used...or if I am just underestimating the value of that damage)
Whenever I play anomaly it is 10k+ damage. I think the splash adds up and because BW casts so often the damage adds up. I'm not exaggerating when I say it adds 10k damage to your final score.
It looks like numbers-wise if you cast polymorph twice per level from 4 to 20 and catch two enemies per casting, you'll end up with an extra 11k damage or so. I may have to experiment with her tonight.
FYI my friends have been unbanned a few hours ago. Apparently the false positive was caused by Asus Xonar's drivers, as documented on multiple discussions on Reddit.
EPT
Then again, I'm totally fine with having all these maps in the map pool with a simple veto system, even for QM (much like how the SC2 map pool allows you to veto ~3 out of 8 maps). That way, you can veto BB and I can veto GoT 
