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On November 30 2015 08:12 Ramiz1989 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2015 07:56 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
With towers of doom, I don't really see how practical it is to kill your opponents' forts. I understand that it allows for more hits when you activate the towers, but it's so easy for the opponents to quickly return their lost fort back to normal, that you'd really have to kill the fort mere moments before activating a tower to get that bonus. It doesn't matter, you are gaining the exp advantage and map control. If they have to come and "return" their fort, you have all the time to do boss, mercs, make an ambush or just gank other lane and destroy other fort. If you manage to destroy at least one fort(while your opponents don't) you are forcing your opponents to be more defensive and chain of events will happen that you can capitalize on.
That's fair. Certainly the experience gain and the distraction factor are better than nothing.
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and merc camps will deal damage to the core if the lane has no fort for protection. Even mule can be a great pick on this map, because otherwise the enemy can shell down your fort to 1% and when double altars are up they move a merc camp through your lane.
And deny you one damage while doing 3 extra.
Also if you dominate you slowly deal damage. I guess they will change domination soon and it will start at 5 forts already.
So killing forts is okay, but killing forts at the right timing is key to winning the game. (unless you go for a win team fights and kill the boss strat of course)
Won most of my games so far because the enemy didn't care about the merc camps.
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I am pretty positive that majority of people don't even know that mercs deal damage directly to your core if the enemy took down the fort on that lane which the mercs are coming from.
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I had no idea that mercs went through to the core, I assumed they got shelled to death by the ultimate cannons of destruction around your base.
I had been operating under the assumption that mercs were useless on the map. 
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Same here; I had no idea about that either hahahaha ^^;;
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I was clueless about that one
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I think this is a major weakness of the map. Every other map in existence has a few rules of thumb which many players don't realize they are assuming:
A) Destroying the core is good, and anything that gets you closer to that is good.
B) Given A, destroying keeps is really good because it applies pressure on the lanes, allowing you to kill the core.
C) Given B, destroying forts is good because it gets you closer to killing keeps.
D) Given C and B, getting merc camps to push out lanes is good. That's the reason you get merc camps.
E) Every map has an objective you fight over which helps push lanes or deal damage to forts/keeps/the core. Doing the main objective is good way to achieve what you are trying to do in A-D.
In Towers of Doom, however, the main objective does not push the lanes at all:
* The objective doesn't push lanes--- it is simply one of four ways to damage the core.
* The boss doesn't push lanes-- it is simply one of four ways to damage the core.
* The forts don't aide in pushing lanes into the core: instead, if you take all six keeps in the game this is one of the four ways you can directly damage the enemy core.
* The mer ccamps do push lanes, but the correct usage of them is not this. You should escort them down the lane, making sure they DON'T blow up on a fort or die to minions. Once they reach the enemy's base, they damage the core.
So instead of thinking about the game like a war game(achieving incremental advantages until you can kill the enemy core, typically all in one push), the game is more like a sporting event--- you are trying to score 40 points using the four tools above. Most people seem to randomly gank/rotate until objective is up, fight for that, and if they get a team wipe or the other team is distracted they take boss. That completely ignores two ways to win.
Even worse, many people just randomly take the merc camps trying to push lanes. Or they destroy forts, then leave and consider their job done---- but if you don't CAPITALIZE on a destroyed fort, the only thing you gained was distracting the enemy team for the 10 or 15 seconds it takes to kill a fort on friendly territory.
Note also that the way the merc camps on bottom work only further compounds the issue: they will always go bot lane unless there is no enemy fort there, then they go mid lane. This means that 90% of the time I've seen them taken, they have simply gone into a fort and dealt it a little bit of damage. (or worse, just died to a minion wave). Since utilizing them takes so much coordination (and frankly, just steam-rolling the other team) I tend to try to get my team to focus on top lane. Taking that fort, then taking the merc camp, and escorting the merc camp down the lane is a very small cycle and rewards you with a few points every time you do it.
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This is the first time I've seen Tassadar do more damage than fucking Tychus, and then Tychus complains that Tassadar is weak.
ARE YOU JOKING?
EDIT: Played against him next game. Rolled his ass.
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ah I was wondering why the camp went mid some times. Thats really silly then, atleast if you consider that Blizzard does so much to accelerate the game. But I guess they prefer the Merc camps killing forts, rather then dealing direct damage. Read about the Mercs dealing core damage on TL before the map went life, so I was prepared. Never expected a Tunnel though lol.
Also don't use the Tunnel if there is a 15 stack Nova out there. Death timers are shown, they know when you will use the Tunnel. Atleast I did ...
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Yeah tunnel is super risky unless there is at least one teammate near the tunnel to "escort" you lol. 
The only time I've played this map(weird I know, but in 15 games or so I got it only once) all of us used tunnel and suddenly enemy Cho'Gall popped up near us in the center, we just ganked him and got 2 easy kills lol.
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>be Green Jesus
>we lose a tribute in dumb manner
>they start doing our boss
>we know, we ping and go there
>sundering the dead boss the last second when they're capturing it
>steal the fucking boss with that sundering when doing a full team wipe on them
>all hail Green Jesus
>go to their side of the map
>take another boss, tribute pops, take that too
>flank with sundering pushes out their Artanis from behind a gate and gives us a kill
>feelsgood.jpg
>tribute pops when we are pushing the keep with boss
>only my buddy Jaina goes bot to the tribute, I go with her
>they all respawn while our team is fighting off creeps near their keep still
>2/3 tribute vs 1/3 and we lose our 3rd tribute, 2v5, Jaina and I die
>lose next tribute
>lose next 3 tributes
>they take our boss
>they take their boss twice
>our Artanis goes afk during 1 tribute and starts doing giants out of saltyness over the loss
>we lose the game
>mfw I can't sundering for their sins in QM
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Im pretty sure the worst type of player besides Laners are Suicidal Warriors.
EDIT: NVM, second worst type of player is someone who picks Gazlowe in HL and forms and all-melee team.
We wrecked them so hard, I feel pretty bad.
EDIT: KT bad first pick? hnnng I hate yooou, proceed into terrible Raynor who picks nonsense build, Tyrande who can't land shots, and a general miserable time because evidently KT is bad
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I don't know your rank but at rank 3ish people don't seem to understand what first pick is. I think you either secure a very good hero or pick one not easily countered by the other team. Not Nova, Illidan or Cho Gall for exemple. KT first pick is a great first pick imo.
Lost a couple of games on that tower of doom map yesterday, and barely won one today. People still don't get the map at all and are a bit clueless. Grouping and coming on obj seem like a bare minimum to me.
So, today we were losing so hard that Uther threw "GG I'll stop playing I'll just walk around untill the end" after 12 minutes and me begging him to play. After lots of reporting threats he played. And we won. And when I explain it to him he says the other team are noobs (because no, he couldn't be wrong when he said we lost). And no, the fact I'm 10 ranks better than him doesn't count obviously (ok it doesn't). He knows everything there is to know about this game.
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United Kingdom7161 Posts
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On December 02 2015 22:47 Leolio wrote:
I don't know your rank but at rank 3ish people don't seem to understand what first pick is. I think you either secure a very good hero or pick one not easily countered by the other team. Not Nova, Illidan or Cho Gall for exemple. KT first pick is a great first pick imo.
Lost a couple of games on that tower of doom map yesterday, and barely won one today. People still don't get the map at all and are a bit clueless. Grouping and coming on obj seem like a bare minimum to me.
So, today we were losing so hard that Uther threw "GG I'll stop playing I'll just walk around untill the end" after 12 minutes and me begging him to play. After lots of reporting threats he played. And we won. And when I explain it to him he says the other team are noobs (because no, he couldn't be wrong when he said we lost). And no, the fact I'm 10 ranks better than him doesn't count obviously (ok it doesn't). He knows everything there is to know about this game.
I hate to break it to you, but Rank 1 is full of the outright retarded as well. As far as I can tell, there is never a point in this game where matchmaking will save you from being matched with people who fail to understand the basics of drafting or the basics of gameplay (such as making sure that you join your team to fight over map mechanics or avoiding uneven engagements).
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On December 03 2015 01:47 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On December 02 2015 22:47 Leolio wrote:
I don't know your rank but at rank 3ish people don't seem to understand what first pick is. I think you either secure a very good hero or pick one not easily countered by the other team. Not Nova, Illidan or Cho Gall for exemple. KT first pick is a great first pick imo.
Lost a couple of games on that tower of doom map yesterday, and barely won one today. People still don't get the map at all and are a bit clueless. Grouping and coming on obj seem like a bare minimum to me.
So, today we were losing so hard that Uther threw "GG I'll stop playing I'll just walk around untill the end" after 12 minutes and me begging him to play. After lots of reporting threats he played. And we won. And when I explain it to him he says the other team are noobs (because no, he couldn't be wrong when he said we lost). And no, the fact I'm 10 ranks better than him doesn't count obviously (ok it doesn't). He knows everything there is to know about this game. I hate to break it to you, but Rank 1 is full of the outright retarded as well. As far as I can tell, there is never a point in this game where matchmaking will save you from being matched with people who fail to understand the basics of drafting or the basics of gameplay (such as making sure that you join your team to fight over map mechanics or avoiding uneven engagements).
But if you avoid ANY fights EVER you're a COWARD!
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On December 03 2015 01:47 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On December 02 2015 22:47 Leolio wrote:
I don't know your rank but at rank 3ish people don't seem to understand what first pick is. I think you either secure a very good hero or pick one not easily countered by the other team. Not Nova, Illidan or Cho Gall for exemple. KT first pick is a great first pick imo.
Lost a couple of games on that tower of doom map yesterday, and barely won one today. People still don't get the map at all and are a bit clueless. Grouping and coming on obj seem like a bare minimum to me.
So, today we were losing so hard that Uther threw "GG I'll stop playing I'll just walk around untill the end" after 12 minutes and me begging him to play. After lots of reporting threats he played. And we won. And when I explain it to him he says the other team are noobs (because no, he couldn't be wrong when he said we lost). And no, the fact I'm 10 ranks better than him doesn't count obviously (ok it doesn't). He knows everything there is to know about this game. I hate to break it to you, but Rank 1 is full of the outright retarded as well. As far as I can tell, there is never a point in this game where matchmaking will save you from being matched with people who fail to understand the basics of drafting or the basics of gameplay (such as making sure that you join your team to fight over map mechanics or avoiding uneven engagements).
Supposedly the rank 1's you find retarded are still better than 98% of the playerbase, so this is more of an indictment of the player pool at-large than of rank 1's.
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On December 03 2015 03:49 MotherFox wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2015 01:47 xDaunt wrote:On December 02 2015 22:47 Leolio wrote:
I don't know your rank but at rank 3ish people don't seem to understand what first pick is. I think you either secure a very good hero or pick one not easily countered by the other team. Not Nova, Illidan or Cho Gall for exemple. KT first pick is a great first pick imo.
Lost a couple of games on that tower of doom map yesterday, and barely won one today. People still don't get the map at all and are a bit clueless. Grouping and coming on obj seem like a bare minimum to me.
So, today we were losing so hard that Uther threw "GG I'll stop playing I'll just walk around untill the end" after 12 minutes and me begging him to play. After lots of reporting threats he played. And we won. And when I explain it to him he says the other team are noobs (because no, he couldn't be wrong when he said we lost). And no, the fact I'm 10 ranks better than him doesn't count obviously (ok it doesn't). He knows everything there is to know about this game. I hate to break it to you, but Rank 1 is full of the outright retarded as well. As far as I can tell, there is never a point in this game where matchmaking will save you from being matched with people who fail to understand the basics of drafting or the basics of gameplay (such as making sure that you join your team to fight over map mechanics or avoiding uneven engagements). Supposedly the rank 1's you find retarded are still better than 98% of the playerbase, so this is more of an indictment of the player pool at-large than of rank 1's.
Yes, this is true. There's a far higher incidence of retarded play at lower levels. But Rank 1 players, as a group, are depressingly bad.
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I feel like many times its just a matter or different perspectives and incomplete information.
The rank 40 dude will not understand the rank1 plays and might say that guy is bad(I assume everyone has seen this).
The rank one guy might deem two towers worth more than x objective the other rank one might feel different. Everyone thinks the other one is bad.
Some see a good engagement based on cooldowns position and so on. Others might see a reckless charge. If the engagement fails one might blame bad play/micro the other bad engagement.
Also everyone makes some bad plays sometimes but a bad play does not necessarily make a bad player.
Who is the retard? The one who doesn't come to the objective or the 4 who die 4v5.
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So about ranks and MMR...
I am rank 1 currently sitting ~3100 MMR, my friend is rank 1 sitting around 2600 MMR, we both have over 1000 games played and just got into HL with a guy who is level 33. Yes, LEVEL 33! account and played Tychus... The game was a mess from us with horrible picks(Murky, Tychus, Diablo, Tyrael and Rhegar) and we lost, but Tychus guy played kind of solid except that his map awareness was very poor.
Jumped to his Hotslog profile only to see that he has 55 games played in total(ok maybe some aren't uploaded) and 14(!) in HL. He has some idiotic jumps in MMR like going 300+ MMR from game to game, then 200+ and 100+, and got to 3200 MMR in his 14 games god knows how... Yes, a guy that has account level 33 was actually the guy with highest MMR in our game. He has only Nova level 7, 3 heroes level 6 and all others are level 5 or less.
I don't have a clue how that happened... http://www.hotslogs.com/Player/Profile?PlayerID=3353887
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EPT
