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On November 23 2015 19:51 Ramiz1989 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2015 07:53 Zambrah wrote:On November 23 2015 06:10 boxerfred wrote:
no really fuck chogall. I'm 100% serious. there's no way to beat him if you're not in a fucking 5 man team. fuck cho'gall, fuck his implications and fuck this fucking game I've seen Leoric do work on him, I recommend only queuing as Leoric or Raynor for eternity. :D That depends on the Cho'Gall, I've seen quite horrible Cho'Gall players but there isn't a single hero in the game that can beat Cho'Gall alone if he is played by two good players.
Yeah but Cho'Gall is a 2-person team, so it would be pretty bullshit if certain heroes could 1v2 Cho and Gall. If a hero could regularly 1v2 pairs of heroes in general, that would be stupid. Don't forget that Cho'Gall isn't a single hero; every time he's in one place, he carries with him the effect of 2 heroes, and removing him from play/ killing him/ distracting him makes things a 3v5, not a 4v5.
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On November 23 2015 20:23 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2015 19:51 Ramiz1989 wrote:On November 23 2015 07:53 Zambrah wrote:On November 23 2015 06:10 boxerfred wrote:
no really fuck chogall. I'm 100% serious. there's no way to beat him if you're not in a fucking 5 man team. fuck cho'gall, fuck his implications and fuck this fucking game I've seen Leoric do work on him, I recommend only queuing as Leoric or Raynor for eternity. :D That depends on the Cho'Gall, I've seen quite horrible Cho'Gall players but there isn't a single hero in the game that can beat Cho'Gall alone if he is played by two good players. Yeah but Cho'Gall is a 2-person team, so it would be pretty bullshit if certain heroes could 1v2 Cho and Gall. If a hero could regularly 1v2 pairs of heroes in general, that would be stupid. Don't forget that Cho'Gall isn't a single hero; every time he's in one place, he carries with him the effect of 2 heroes, and removing him from play/ killing him/ distracting him makes things a 3v5, not a 4v5.
I agree, never said that this shouldn't be the case, just that you take everything people say about Cho'Gall and his counters with a grain of salt.
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I'm not sure why anyone would complain about the opposing team having Cho'Gall. He isn't good. He occupies two hero slots on a team, which means that he also puts severe limitations on his team's options during the laning phase, which in turn means that there are a lot of heroes and comps that simply don't work Cho'Gall. Has anyone seen the extreme case of a team that has Cho'Gall and Abathur? It's hilarious how handicapped those teams are. Simply put, Cho'Gall is inherently a tactical liability -- particularly on any map requiring heavy rotations and roaming (like Dragon Shire). This liability is compounded by the fact that he just isn't that strong as a hero. No, he generally isn't going to fall to anyone 1v1. However, he also isn't going to kill anyone 1v1 in the laning phase due to his lack of CC (unless someone messes up badly with their positioning and play). But frankly, the 1v1 conversation is irrelevant. Because Cho'Gall counts for two heroes, what really matters is the 1v2 conversation. And the reality is that Cho'Gall can get bullied by and lose to a lot of two hero combinations in lane. The kicker is that all of these two hero combinations will have a superior ability to roam and help other lanes while continuing to soak -- an option that Cho'Gall simply doesn't have.
Notice that I haven't even begun discussing things like Giant Killer, SSS, and other percentage-based attacks that absolutely maul Cho'Gall. There's a reason why he has an abysmally low win percentage right now: he just isn't good.
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And yet he is in every single Quick Match and every single Coop Match. Blizzard really ruined the game with this viral hero. I want to get him too so I'll play my games with him when I have the chance, while the other 3 people in my team will cry. Anyway at least I won't be "2v5 Cho Gall" or "I do all camps but no fights Cho Gall".
So only HL is safe to play now, and even then some people will just go for him because who cares winning?
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7815 Posts
It's definitely not safe to play HL. I got matched up with him at least 3 times yesterday. It would of been a fourth, but the last two players were forced to pick different classes lol.
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was playing with a Cho'gall on Blackhearts,me picking Leoric to deny him to enemies and because it's Leoric.
He/They said:"By min 1:30 top towers will be down and by 2:30 top fort will be down to gain early lead....
by min 10, top their FORT was still standing, but our top KEEP was down
by min 13 our top CORE was down
At least it was fast
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On November 24 2015 00:23 Leolio wrote:
And yet he is in every single Quick Match and every single Coop Match. Blizzard really ruined the game with this viral hero. I want to get him too so I'll play my games with him when I have the chance, while the other 3 people in my team will cry. Anyway at least I won't be "2v5 Cho Gall" or "I do all camps but no fights Cho Gall".
So only HL is safe to play now, and even then some people will just go for him because who cares winning?
I think people need to relax with the worrying that the game is now ruined because of Cho'Gall. He's the newest hero, he's hyped up, he's easily accessible (because free), but he's only been out for a week. He'll fall out of fashion soon enough until Blizzard finds a way to balance him appropriately, and people will learn how to play as him. Especially with the Black Friday Sale coming up, where all heroes are 50% off, everyone is going to have plenty of access to plenty of other heroes.
Black Friday Sale: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/heroes/498836-hots-black-friday-sale
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7815 Posts
He's not bad don't get me wrong, he's just very situational and people don't understand that. Also I can't wait for that black friday special. I'm already ready to spend $300000....
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I just can't imagine partnering up as Cho or Gall so many times that I can hit higher levels/ rewards with either hero x.x
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Yeah, QM has been awful since he came out, really horrible comps (though these happen even in games without him far more regularly now for some reason). I'm afraid to play HL while people insist on picking him until people know how to use him effectively. I think he has potential to be really strong if you can get around the obvious man disadvantage, like with Abathur - difference of course in that Aba still gets you constant xp.
If you're stuck laning against him and your team refuses to rotate, he can smash down towers really quickly. But good rotations help get a massive lead against him.
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Chogall might be Bad in games with actual team communication or it youre not soloing. If you soloq youre fucked
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On November 24 2015 04:25 boxerfred wrote:
Chogall might be Bad in games with actual team communication or it youre not soloing. If you soloq youre fucked
never lost a HL game vs chogall or a QM when my draft wasn't fucked from the getgo
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On November 24 2015 00:50 ShoCkeyy wrote:
He's not bad don't get me wrong, he's just very situational and people don't understand that. Also I can't wait for that black friday special. I'm already ready to spend $300000....
will be a black friday for my pocket thats for sure.
And wait you are telling me 2 heroes with 1 body are situational xD?
But everyone was doing the quest and everyone plays him thinking he is bad. So if Cho'gall would have a winrate close to 50% I would consider him the most OP release of all time. I mean heroes that are at 2000 gold usually suffer the noob factor. This hero is basically free.
People still roll their eyes seeing a Raynor and a Valla is just as much of a luckbox.
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lost a HL game vs Cho'gall/Abathur/Uther/Illidan on Dragon Shire
thankfuly enough next game we were matched vs that guy who threw our 2lvl lead by split pushing at level 16 as Hammer and absolutely fucking demolished his team
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This happend yesterday and I still can't beleve it:
>>>>> Quickmatch on Cursed Hollow [19:58] <<<<<
Abathur, Tyrael, Nova, Cho, Gall VS. Thrall (Me), Sylvanas, Cho, Gall, Johanna
Winner: Team 1
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I like this game so much, I played it more in a year than I did with Sc2 in 2 years and i've been a starcraft player for over a decade, yet I often have to take extensive breaks from it because the online experience can be terrible if you run a lot of solo/duoQ in hl and keep having teamates with terrible decisions making and toxic behavior.
Also, I can't win on Blackhearts Bay in soloQ at all. I usually try to pick Zag to handle bot lane/chest and turn in with creeps, which I usually do a great job at it unless im constantly being ganked by good zeratuls or something like that, yet since i'm so far from the rest of the map, I can't really rotate super fast to help my teamates if things go bad and they always seem to lose the 4v4 in the top part of the map. I feel so powerless in my games lately, mmr stuck in the 3400 / 3575 range for 5 months or so, often going from that 150 variation within a week end
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Today I learned that if you queue up for HL with your team choosing first, and the first pick is Lt. Morales, you're going to have a bad time.
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On November 24 2015 00:43 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2015 00:23 Leolio wrote:
And yet he is in every single Quick Match and every single Coop Match. Blizzard really ruined the game with this viral hero. I want to get him too so I'll play my games with him when I have the chance, while the other 3 people in my team will cry. Anyway at least I won't be "2v5 Cho Gall" or "I do all camps but no fights Cho Gall".
So only HL is safe to play now, and even then some people will just go for him because who cares winning? I think people need to relax with the worrying that the game is now ruined because of Cho'Gall. He's the newest hero, he's hyped up, he's easily accessible (because free), but he's only been out for a week. He'll fall out of fashion soon enough until Blizzard finds a way to balance him appropriately, and people will learn how to play as him. Especially with the Black Friday Sale coming up, where all heroes are 50% off, everyone is going to have plenty of access to plenty of other heroes.
I meant ruined the game since Cho Gall hit and until everyone has them. It's really ruined in QM and in vs AI (which is annoying but kinda ok, instead of 5-6 mins you play 8-10 mins). Seriously haven't had much pleasure in QM since Cho Gall's release. The whole viral thing just was a bad idea. Making Cho Gall was a bold and interesting move. Making him viral asking each player to win at least 2 games to get him, and 4 to get the gold was a bit too much because they're just everywhere now.
I thought HL was safe, but:
On November 24 2015 00:34 ShoCkeyy wrote:
It's definitely not safe to play HL. I got matched up with him at least 3 times yesterday. It would of been a fourth, but the last two players were forced to pick different classes lol.
edit: but that's not what I came here to rage for! :D Just got flamed in picks AFTER picking Nova by an Illidan 1st pick who I had to mute in lobby... I'm tired of all the flame when I get Nova...
I did a solid game, 12 - 1. Illidan was good. A douchebag, but a skilled one. We won.
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At one time i made it my entire goal to destroy a Nova FP on the enemy team on Haunted Mines (Maybe that was you?^^) with picking Tassadar and just following her around all day. She was pretty much useless while still could shield/ mule some stuff and pick up skulls. I think after we won second golem phase with 70:30 or sth, the enemy team raged so hard at Nova that she stopped playing completely .
She was 2:4 while i was 12:2 :D
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On November 24 2015 23:53 Harris1st wrote:
At one time i made it my entire goal to destroy a Nova FP on the enemy team on Haunted Mines (Maybe that was you?^^) with picking Tassadar and just following her around all day. She was pretty much useless while still could shield/ mule some stuff and pick up skulls. I think after we won second golem phase with 70:30 or sth, the enemy team raged so hard at Nova that she stopped playing completely .
She was 2:4 while i was 12:2 :D
I never ever EVER had a negative ratio in HL, furthermore with Nova (maybe one game?). I usually don't mind Tassadar too much because good Tassadars are so rare. Most people just think Tassadar vs Nova or Zera means GG. To me it means the guy didn't pick his best hero so he's got more chances to lose.
A good Tassadar can be a pain, but I think I only played versus a good Tassadar once. Maybe it was you. :D
And I still played decently if I remember well. Like today, a rank 1 Karhazim took the revealing talent vs me. Revealed me a lot. Still went 12-1, most of my kills on him.
But I love what you did. That's the spirit! I too, when playing vs Nova or Zeratul want to ruin their game so bad. :-)
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