On June 15 2015 23:03 YouGotNothin wrote: I would be careful looking at Master rank on Hotslogs, especially at the 'Popular Talent Builds' section because of the very small sampler size (sometimes <30 games) for some of the builds. Do not assume the highest win-rate Master level build is the best in general, it is more likely a build that is catered to a very specific ally or enemy teamcomp. Case in point: Abathur's Master League highest win rate 'Popular Talent Build' takes Ultimate Evolution at 10 and Adrenaline Boost at 16, both of which are not actually the most common talents taken. That might not have been the best example, but the point is looking at Diamond or Platinum will give you a much bigger sample size and will probably give you a better idea of the 'standard optimal build' for a hero IMO.
Or you use master league and look at the most used talent instead of the highest winrate.
On June 14 2015 16:35 sM.Zik wrote: ^Definitely not usual. Just played two solo queue HL (rank1). first game no healer, second game no tank, other teams had healer+tank both games. I tried to explain to them it was a bad idea and they wouldn't listen. Needless to say we lost both easily, match making needs some tweaking..
No, you just gotta stop giving a shit about role preferences. I just don't see the need for supports/tanks in hero league. You don't need them, 98% of all players suck major donkey dick lol. And that time where u actually meet decent people, you'd probably have been smacked regardless of your team having a support or not.
This sounds like advice from someone with a 2000-2500 hotslogs MMR...
Team comp matters. If it didn't then there wouldn't be a "meta" at the top level of play.
On June 15 2015 23:03 YouGotNothin wrote: I would be careful looking at Master rank on Hotslogs, especially at the 'Popular Talent Builds' section because of the very small sampler size (sometimes <30 games) for some of the builds. Do not assume the highest win-rate Master level build is the best in general, it is more likely a build that is catered to a very specific ally or enemy teamcomp. Case in point: Abathur's Master League highest win rate 'Popular Talent Build' takes Ultimate Evolution at 10 and Adrenaline Boost at 16, both of which are not actually the most common talents taken. That might not have been the best example, but the point is looking at Diamond or Platinum will give you a much bigger sample size and will probably give you a better idea of the 'standard optimal build' for a hero IMO.
Or you use master league and look at the most used talent instead of the highest winrate.
That's the big trick with using the hero details:
The overall talent builds can help you see what a coherent build, but the sample sizes for those are very, very small.
You can look at the most used talents individually but if you're play a hero with multiple builds then you actually end up picking talents from two different builds.
Of course you can argue that people should know the difference by analyzing the talents, but we all know people aren't all able (or willing) to do that.
Look at a hero like Tassadar and just see what a jumble going by Hotslogs turns into!
On June 15 2015 23:03 YouGotNothin wrote: I would be careful looking at Master rank on Hotslogs, especially at the 'Popular Talent Builds' section because of the very small sampler size (sometimes <30 games) for some of the builds. Do not assume the highest win-rate Master level build is the best in general, it is more likely a build that is catered to a very specific ally or enemy teamcomp. Case in point: Abathur's Master League highest win rate 'Popular Talent Build' takes Ultimate Evolution at 10 and Adrenaline Boost at 16, both of which are not actually the most common talents taken. That might not have been the best example, but the point is looking at Diamond or Platinum will give you a much bigger sample size and will probably give you a better idea of the 'standard optimal build' for a hero IMO.
Or you use master league and look at the most used talent instead of the highest winrate.
That's the big trick with using the hero details:
The overall talent builds can help you see what a coherent build, but the sample sizes for those are very, very small.
You can look at the most used talents individually but if you're play a hero with multiple builds then you actually end up picking talents from two different builds.
Of course you can argue that people should know the difference by analyzing the talents, but we all know people aren't all able (or willing) to do that.
Look at a hero like Tassadar and just see what a jumble going by Hotslogs turns into!
If you scroll to the bottom of the page you can sort that table by most played and see entire build. Having some idea of why the build is popular and when you should take an alternate talent is useful though.
It would make sense for this table to be at the top of the page instead of the bottom, but I'm not the website designer.
I actually was talking about that table at the bottom suffering from tiny sample sizes (as well as the individual tier breakdowns). For master league it's rare to see any build break 50 games so it's hard to trust what's a real build and what's just individual / comp specific choices.
Like my Tassadar example: any other hero with plenty of viable options makes it hard to merge builds together (like you could with Illidan and understand that 6th Sense or Giant Killer is a choice) so you're more or less back at square one.
Also, this might be more of an advanced thing, but people using Hotslog hero details also have to be careful that they aren't missing out on less popular alternate builds. Last time I looked Valla's Q-build was no where to be seen, but it looks like it's showing up now. Personally, I'm also not seeing any of the Muradin builds I use either.
The most popular Jaina build for instance has 300 games played and the second most played has over 100. If you play a wildly unpopular hero like Tassadar you might run into problems and need to switch to diamond league or something I guess, but it's rare to see any build break 50 games is just flat out wrong. If you just take the first five heroes in the listing, the only one who doesn't have 50+ games most popular build is Arthas and you guessed it; nobody plays him cause he sucks.
Copying guides is just a foundation. You should work to understand why people take certain talents and when to take other talents. I'm not advocating just blind copying, but if you have no idea where to start this is the easiest method and effective unless you're playing the token hero nobody likes. If you want to play some alternate play style like Q valla then you'll probably have to go elsewhere as well until it catches onto the mainstream. If you know about the Q build though then I'm not sure why you're looking up builds on hotslog in the first place though. Copy the build from wherever you saw it.
Odd, I checked the heroes I mentioned - Tassadar, Muradin and Valla.
Valla and Muradin each have a single build topping 100 games. Muradin has one in the 50's and Valla has one at 75. I didn't peg them as unpopular heroes, but I guess they are.
Funny enough neither of Muradin's top-2 builds are the canonical one (Reverberation, Thunderburn, Battle Momentum, Avatar, Thunderstrike, Stoneform, Rewind / Hardened Shield).
Valla's is the canonical multishot build though, but I'm not surprised as that's been the go-to build since Alpha.
On June 16 2015 09:09 Wuster wrote: Odd, I checked the heroes I mentioned - Tassadar, Muradin and Valla.
Valla and Muradin each have a single build topping 100 games. Muradin has one in the 50's and Valla has one at 75. I didn't peg them as unpopular heroes, but I guess they are.
Funny enough neither of Muradin's top-2 builds are the canonical one (Reverberation, Thunderburn, Battle Momentum, Avatar, Thunderstrike, Stoneform, Rewind / Hardened Shield).
Valla's is the canonical multishot build though, but I'm not surprised as that's been the go-to build since Alpha.
If you think over a hundred games in a single week is poor sample size then I'm not sure what to tell you.
On June 16 2015 09:34 Wuster wrote: Where did I say that 100 games is a poor sample size?
I said most builds on that table are low sample size (as in under 50, which the vast majority for those three heroes are).
It's even more comical when the high sample builds for Muradin aren't even 'correct'.
I told people to copy the most popular build so I was going with the sample size of the most popular build. Maybe I got off track by mentioning the second most popular build of Jaina. Nobody is going to dispute that there is not a good sample of 9 builds in master league. That claim is irrelevant though.
It's comical that you think the 70+ winrate build of Muradin is not even correct. If I was a new player who wanted to copy a muradin build I'd say the one with 120 games and 72% winrate is the one I'd go for.
On June 14 2015 16:35 sM.Zik wrote: ^Definitely not usual. Just played two solo queue HL (rank1). first game no healer, second game no tank, other teams had healer+tank both games. I tried to explain to them it was a bad idea and they wouldn't listen. Needless to say we lost both easily, match making needs some tweaking..
No, you just gotta stop giving a shit about role preferences. I just don't see the need for supports/tanks in hero league. You don't need them, 98% of all players suck major donkey dick lol. And that time where u actually meet decent people, you'd probably have been smacked regardless of your team having a support or not.
This sounds like advice from someone with a 2000-2500 hotslogs MMR...
Team comp matters. If it didn't then there wouldn't be a "meta" at the top level of play.
My IGN is Krillz. Not 2500 MMR lulz
There is no meta at "top level of play", you prolly don't even know since you're not playing there.
There isn't really a "meta" at the top level play of hero league play. People still do pretty much whatever the hell that they feel like, though they tend to cover the most important bases.
Some stuff that was just confirmed on PC gaming show:
All the next content will be Diablo-focused, and the term "expansion" was tossed out (by Day9 though).
King Leoric - [Skeleton King] - After he dies, stays as a wraith for the entire death timer haunting enemies, respawns where your wraith is. Dealing damage while dead lowers your death timer, but you don't actually do damage. Heroics:
Entomb - create a wall around the target, trapping them (3 sides with Leoric at the opening, picture the waller affix from d3)
March of the Black King - unstoppable whirlwind-like attack
Monk - diablo support, mobile, lots of leaps and jumps, chooses own trait at the start of the game. Not sure if he has a name like the other diablo heroes yet, but probably does.
On June 17 2015 12:25 Valiver wrote: Some stuff that was just confirmed on PC gaming show:
All the next content will be Diablo-focused, and the term "expansion" was tossed out (by Day9 though).
King Leoric - [Skeleton King] - After he dies, stays as a wraith for the entire death timer haunting enemies, respawns where your wraith is. Dealing damage while dead lowers your death timer, but you don't actually do damage. Heroics:
Entomb - create a wall around the target, trapping them (3 sides with Leoric at the opening, picture the waller affix from d3)
March of the Black King - unstoppable whirlwind-like attack
Monk - diablo support, mobile, lots of leaps and jumps, chooses own trait at the start of the game. Not sure if he has a name like the other diablo heroes yet, but probably does.
I'm glad we're getting a Diablo support, but jesus tap dancing Christ can we please get a D2 hero?
I have a fear someones going to confront Dustin Browder about adding Amazon, and he's going to say something dunb like they cant add her because she'd conflict with Nova's skin silouette.
EPT
