• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 08:30
CEST 14:30
KST 21:30
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Serral wins HomeStory Cup 2915Serral wins Maestros of the Game 243ByuL, and the Limitations of Standard Play3Team Liquid Map Contest #22: Results and Winners7Code S Season 2 (2026): RO4 and Finals Preview12
Community News
Weekly Cups (Aug 3-9): Protoss get shut out1RSL goes to London! 2026 Offline Finals Nov 21-2212Weekly Cups (July 27-Aug 2): SHIN's big week0SC4ALL II: Brood War - $2500 - Dec 5-69SC4ALL II announced - $10,000 prize pool, Dec 5-64
StarCraft 2
General
Weekly Cups (Aug 3-9): Protoss get shut out SC4ALL: II Talent Announcement! Protoss AoE skill expression August World Ranking: Clem climbs to #2 Balance hotfix patch 5.0.16b (July 16)
Tourneys
PIG STY FESTIVAL 8.0! (13 - 23 August) Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament RSL goes to London! 2026 Offline Finals Nov 21-22 RSL Revival: Season 6 - Qualifiers and Main Event Tasteless Time Warp: SC Evo Showmatch (May 25)
Strategy
[G] Having the right mentality to improve
Custom Maps
Nexus Wars 2021 GUIDE [M] (2) Industrial Park
External Content
Mutation # 538 Media Blackout The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 537 Hostile Territory Mutation # 536 Railroad Switch
Brood War
General
BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ ASL22 General Discussion Are you ready for ASL 22? NEW HYPE VIDEO How FlaSh Nearly Forfeited MSL Finals being late BW General Discussion
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues 2v2v2v2 Tournament KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 3 Escore Tournament - Season 3
Strategy
Fighting Spirit mining rates Odyssey Mineral Stack Saturation Any training maps people recommend? Simple Questions, Simple Answers
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread General RTS Discussion Thread EVE Corporation Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Diablo 2 thread
Dota 2
Looking for a Dota Mentor Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish TSM pausing esports and CLG Dead
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Power Rank TL Mafia Community Thread NeO.D_StephenKing vs This Guy From 1 Million Dance
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Iain M Banks Says He Has Cancer And Months To Live European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread The Games Industry And ATVI
Fan Clubs
MarineLorD Fan Club The ShoWTimE Fan Club The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! Anime Discussion Thread Series you have seen recently... [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books
Sports
Football (Soccer) Thread NBA General Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 Formula 1 Discussion MLB/Baseball 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread Simple Questions Simple Answers FPS when play League Of Legend on laptop
TL Community
The Automated Ban List Northern Ireland Global Starcraft
Blogs
Are High-Level Gamers more A…
TrAiDoS
Cathedral Of CS And NY pizza a…
FuDDx
Please support my new stand…
Peanutsc
Hello guys!
LIN1s
ASL S22 English Commentary…
namkraft
Poker (part 2)
Nebuchad
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 3467 users

Heroes Large General Thread - Page 436

Forum Index > Heroes of the Storm
9055 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 434 435 436 437 438 453 Next
Add yourself in the TL Player list if you want to play with TL people, and /join teamliquid channel ingame. Also check out the new Heroes Liquipedia.
xDaunt
Profile Joined March 2010
United States17988 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-06-10 13:56:49
June 10 2015 13:56 GMT
#8701
On June 10 2015 22:19 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 10 2015 22:18 xDaunt wrote:
On June 10 2015 22:13 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
On June 10 2015 22:07 Disengaged wrote:
On June 10 2015 20:21 Jenia6109 wrote:
After playing Nova for a while (a couple of months playing 2-3 games a week) i start to hate her really much.
All she can do is snipe, snipe, snipe. I always use the only one build that seems the most effective. And her gameplay is so straightforward.
You can't clear lanes. You can't attack anybody in front. You only can camp then snipe and hope that you will one-shot enemy hero. If not you are either die of go away and then repeat.
So it's like repeating one thing on and on and on like groundhog day.
Does anybody feel the same about this hero?



Really wanna switch to another character. Maybe Tyrande.


Being a Nova main myself I can understand the frustation but shes the most fun for me. It really helps going in knowing that this hero is not to push lanes. How are you playing her? How are you building her? Because her main job is to just move around the map looking for assassinations in order to help the other lanes. Also, once you hit 10 you gotta decide how are you going to play/build her past the laning phase. Are you going to continue roaming around the map looking for victims? Or are you going to be more team fight focused?

While the build may be the same there is some variations in what you take for certain talents.


Yeah this is something I've been coming to terms with, because I'm much more accustomed to (and generally prefer) lane-pushing instead of being a lone wolf/ sniper. It's certainly an interesting change though!

Play Zeratul instead. He can do pretty much everything Nova can in terms of assassination while bringing a bunch more utility to the team. Zeratul is the superior pick like 95%+ of the time.


He's definitely a hero I want to explore further, and I know a lot of top players (like that xDaunt guy) main/ frequently play him.


I need to get around to updating The Big Book of Zeratul. All of the talent and build information is out of date with the changes that Blizzard has implemented over the past couple patches. The proper build path isn't really even debatable anymore. AA-centric builds are the way to go. I think that the optimum build is seasoned marksman, focused attack, first aid, void prison, assassin's blade, rending cleave, and nexus blades for its balance of single target damage and survivability. However, if you really want to kick the damage up a notch, the new European build is the way to go: seasoned marksman, focused attack, follow through, void prison, assassin's blade (most Euros still pick wormhold for some reason, which makes no sense to me), double bombs, and nexus blades (again, most Euros take rewind here, which also makes little sense to me). The damage that follow through adds is huge. The problem, however, is that you are less able to hang in fights without first aid, so you can't realize your full damage potential in a lot of situations. Again, this problem is mitigated in pro games, but you can't always rely upon the timely heals in solo queue. Self-sufficiency is always a virtue in that arena.
DarkPlasmaBall
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States46265 Posts
June 10 2015 14:01 GMT
#8702
On June 10 2015 22:56 xDaunt wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 10 2015 22:19 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
On June 10 2015 22:18 xDaunt wrote:
On June 10 2015 22:13 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
On June 10 2015 22:07 Disengaged wrote:
On June 10 2015 20:21 Jenia6109 wrote:
After playing Nova for a while (a couple of months playing 2-3 games a week) i start to hate her really much.
All she can do is snipe, snipe, snipe. I always use the only one build that seems the most effective. And her gameplay is so straightforward.
You can't clear lanes. You can't attack anybody in front. You only can camp then snipe and hope that you will one-shot enemy hero. If not you are either die of go away and then repeat.
So it's like repeating one thing on and on and on like groundhog day.
Does anybody feel the same about this hero?



Really wanna switch to another character. Maybe Tyrande.


Being a Nova main myself I can understand the frustation but shes the most fun for me. It really helps going in knowing that this hero is not to push lanes. How are you playing her? How are you building her? Because her main job is to just move around the map looking for assassinations in order to help the other lanes. Also, once you hit 10 you gotta decide how are you going to play/build her past the laning phase. Are you going to continue roaming around the map looking for victims? Or are you going to be more team fight focused?

While the build may be the same there is some variations in what you take for certain talents.


Yeah this is something I've been coming to terms with, because I'm much more accustomed to (and generally prefer) lane-pushing instead of being a lone wolf/ sniper. It's certainly an interesting change though!

Play Zeratul instead. He can do pretty much everything Nova can in terms of assassination while bringing a bunch more utility to the team. Zeratul is the superior pick like 95%+ of the time.


He's definitely a hero I want to explore further, and I know a lot of top players (like that xDaunt guy) main/ frequently play him.


I need to get around to updating The Big Book of Zeratul. All of the talent and build information is out of date with the changes that Blizzard has implemented over the past couple patches. The proper build path isn't really even debatable anymore. AA-centric builds are the way to go. I think that the optimum build is seasoned marksman, focused attack, first aid, void prison, assassin's blade, rending cleave, and nexus blades for its balance of single target damage and survivability. However, if you really want to kick the damage up a notch, the new European build is the way to go: seasoned marksman, focused attack, follow through, void prison, assassin's blade (most Euros still pick wormhold for some reason, which makes no sense to me), double bombs, and nexus blades (again, most Euros take rewind here, which also makes little sense to me). The damage that follow through adds is huge. The problem, however, is that you are less able to hang in fights without first aid, so you can't realize your full damage potential in a lot of situations. Again, this problem is mitigated in pro games, but you can't always rely upon the timely heals in solo queue. Self-sufficiency is always a virtue in that arena.


Awesome Definitely gonna try out those builds. I watched Zuna play Zeratul and it's just mind-blowing (although I'm sure that's more about the skill level than the talent tree).
"There is nothing more satisfying than looking at a crowd of people and helping them get what I love." ~Day[9] Daily #100
Ghostcom
Profile Joined March 2010
Denmark4783 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-06-10 14:14:50
June 10 2015 14:08 GMT
#8703
On June 10 2015 22:38 Stratos_speAr wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 10 2015 20:21 Jenia6109 wrote:
After playing Nova for a while (a couple of months playing 2-3 games a week) i start to hate her really much.
All she can do is snipe, snipe, snipe. I always use the only one build that seems the most effective. And her gameplay is so straightforward.
You can't clear lanes. You can't attack anybody in front. You only can camp then snipe and hope that you will one-shot enemy hero. If not you are either die of go away and then repeat.
So it's like repeating one thing on and on and on like groundhog day.
Does anybody feel the same about this hero?



Really wanna switch to another character. Maybe Tyrande.


Yes. Nova is easily the most one-dimensional hero in the game and is probably the least effective at high levels. Her only strength, picking out squishies, is entirely negated by high-skilled team play.

Show nested quote +
Both Jaina and Valla are good pushers even without assassinating their opposition. No specc'ing needed for either (but just like for everyone else it helps).


AoE-oriented assassins (Jaina, KT) are good at pushing, but most specialists are just better. For those assassins to push, they have to blow relatively long CD's that limit their ability to do their main job (kill opposing heroes), and it also costs quite a bit of mana. Specialists are far more mana efficient with their pushing abilities and have abilities that are specifically helpful in minion clear and structure damage (Azmodan's generals/demon summoning, Sylvanas's Black Arrow, Gaz's turrets, etc.).


Thanks cpt. Obvious.

If you didn't quote me out of context you would have noticed that what I was responding to a guy who said:
The only one that is really able to push no matter what is our OP new hero Kael'Thas. The point is that most assassins can be decent at pushing, but only if they spec for it.
Neither Jaina, Valla or KT have to specc for it.

Whether or not specialists are better is a different argument.

EDIT: Blizzard is a 15 sec CD, Multishot is 8 sec, Flamestrike is 7. For comparison, shadow dagger and globe are both 10 secs so apparently all CDs are relatively long.
mordek
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States12705 Posts
June 10 2015 14:11 GMT
#8704
It looked more like he was adding more context and clarity for the original poster on top of what you provided so probably no need to get uppity about it
It is vanity to love what passes quickly and not to look ahead where eternal joy abides. Tiberius77 | Mordek #1881 "I took a mint!"
vJehoelv
Profile Joined June 2011
United States103 Posts
June 10 2015 14:19 GMT
#8705
Yeah I also felt that the attitude was unnecessary.
Tenks
Profile Joined April 2010
United States3104 Posts
June 10 2015 14:21 GMT
#8706
On June 10 2015 22:56 xDaunt wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 10 2015 22:19 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
On June 10 2015 22:18 xDaunt wrote:
On June 10 2015 22:13 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
On June 10 2015 22:07 Disengaged wrote:
On June 10 2015 20:21 Jenia6109 wrote:
After playing Nova for a while (a couple of months playing 2-3 games a week) i start to hate her really much.
All she can do is snipe, snipe, snipe. I always use the only one build that seems the most effective. And her gameplay is so straightforward.
You can't clear lanes. You can't attack anybody in front. You only can camp then snipe and hope that you will one-shot enemy hero. If not you are either die of go away and then repeat.
So it's like repeating one thing on and on and on like groundhog day.
Does anybody feel the same about this hero?



Really wanna switch to another character. Maybe Tyrande.


Being a Nova main myself I can understand the frustation but shes the most fun for me. It really helps going in knowing that this hero is not to push lanes. How are you playing her? How are you building her? Because her main job is to just move around the map looking for assassinations in order to help the other lanes. Also, once you hit 10 you gotta decide how are you going to play/build her past the laning phase. Are you going to continue roaming around the map looking for victims? Or are you going to be more team fight focused?

While the build may be the same there is some variations in what you take for certain talents.


Yeah this is something I've been coming to terms with, because I'm much more accustomed to (and generally prefer) lane-pushing instead of being a lone wolf/ sniper. It's certainly an interesting change though!

Play Zeratul instead. He can do pretty much everything Nova can in terms of assassination while bringing a bunch more utility to the team. Zeratul is the superior pick like 95%+ of the time.


He's definitely a hero I want to explore further, and I know a lot of top players (like that xDaunt guy) main/ frequently play him.


I need to get around to updating The Big Book of Zeratul. All of the talent and build information is out of date with the changes that Blizzard has implemented over the past couple patches. The proper build path isn't really even debatable anymore. AA-centric builds are the way to go. I think that the optimum build is seasoned marksman, focused attack, first aid, void prison, assassin's blade, rending cleave, and nexus blades for its balance of single target damage and survivability. However, if you really want to kick the damage up a notch, the new European build is the way to go: seasoned marksman, focused attack, follow through, void prison, assassin's blade (most Euros still pick wormhold for some reason, which makes no sense to me), double bombs, and nexus blades (again, most Euros take rewind here, which also makes little sense to me). The damage that follow through adds is huge. The problem, however, is that you are less able to hang in fights without first aid, so you can't realize your full damage potential in a lot of situations. Again, this problem is mitigated in pro games, but you can't always rely upon the timely heals in solo queue. Self-sufficiency is always a virtue in that arena.



I feel like Rewind makes more sense than Nexus blades. If your goal is to proc follow through on each attack with rewind you can get 3 more procs which results in all your attacks doing 40% more damage compared to Nexus Blades only giving 20% more damage. Since you lack FA you aren't going to stick onto a target long enough to do anything more than your Rewind rotation.

I don't understand Wormhole though if you take Rewind at 20
Wat
vJehoelv
Profile Joined June 2011
United States103 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-06-10 14:36:16
June 10 2015 14:35 GMT
#8707
On June 10 2015 23:21 Tenks wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 10 2015 22:56 xDaunt wrote:
On June 10 2015 22:19 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
On June 10 2015 22:18 xDaunt wrote:
On June 10 2015 22:13 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
On June 10 2015 22:07 Disengaged wrote:
On June 10 2015 20:21 Jenia6109 wrote:
After playing Nova for a while (a couple of months playing 2-3 games a week) i start to hate her really much.
All she can do is snipe, snipe, snipe. I always use the only one build that seems the most effective. And her gameplay is so straightforward.
You can't clear lanes. You can't attack anybody in front. You only can camp then snipe and hope that you will one-shot enemy hero. If not you are either die of go away and then repeat.
So it's like repeating one thing on and on and on like groundhog day.
Does anybody feel the same about this hero?



Really wanna switch to another character. Maybe Tyrande.


Being a Nova main myself I can understand the frustation but shes the most fun for me. It really helps going in knowing that this hero is not to push lanes. How are you playing her? How are you building her? Because her main job is to just move around the map looking for assassinations in order to help the other lanes. Also, once you hit 10 you gotta decide how are you going to play/build her past the laning phase. Are you going to continue roaming around the map looking for victims? Or are you going to be more team fight focused?



While the build may be the same there is some variations in what you take for certain talents.


Yeah this is something I've been coming to terms with, because I'm much more accustomed to (and generally prefer) lane-pushing instead of being a lone wolf/ sniper. It's certainly an interesting change though!

Play Zeratul instead. He can do pretty much everything Nova can in terms of assassination while bringing a bunch more utility to the team. Zeratul is the superior pick like 95%+ of the time.


He's definitely a hero I want to explore further, and I know a lot of top players (like that xDaunt guy) main/ frequently play him.


I need to get around to updating The Big Book of Zeratul. All of the talent and build information is out of date with the changes that Blizzard has implemented over the past couple patches. The proper build path isn't really even debatable anymore. AA-centric builds are the way to go. I think that the optimum build is seasoned marksman, focused attack, first aid, void prison, assassin's blade, rending cleave, and nexus blades for its balance of single target damage and survivability. However, if you really want to kick the damage up a notch, the new European build is the way to go: seasoned marksman, focused attack, follow through, void prison, assassin's blade (most Euros still pick wormhold for some reason, which makes no sense to me), double bombs, and nexus blades (again, most Euros take rewind here, which also makes little sense to me). The damage that follow through adds is huge. The problem, however, is that you are less able to hang in fights without first aid, so you can't realize your full damage potential in a lot of situations. Again, this problem is mitigated in pro games, but you can't always rely upon the timely heals in solo queue. Self-sufficiency is always a virtue in that arena.



I feel like Rewind makes more sense than Nexus blades. If your goal is to proc follow through on each attack with rewind you can get 3 more procs which results in all your attacks doing 40% more damage compared to Nexus Blades only giving 20% more damage. Since you lack FA you aren't going to stick onto a target long enough to do anything more than your Rewind rotation.

I don't understand Wormhole though if you take Rewind at 20


Rewind gives burst, wormhole gives survivability you need to live to 20.
xDaunt
Profile Joined March 2010
United States17988 Posts
June 10 2015 15:06 GMT
#8708
On June 10 2015 23:21 Tenks wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 10 2015 22:56 xDaunt wrote:
On June 10 2015 22:19 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
On June 10 2015 22:18 xDaunt wrote:
On June 10 2015 22:13 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
On June 10 2015 22:07 Disengaged wrote:
On June 10 2015 20:21 Jenia6109 wrote:
After playing Nova for a while (a couple of months playing 2-3 games a week) i start to hate her really much.
All she can do is snipe, snipe, snipe. I always use the only one build that seems the most effective. And her gameplay is so straightforward.
You can't clear lanes. You can't attack anybody in front. You only can camp then snipe and hope that you will one-shot enemy hero. If not you are either die of go away and then repeat.
So it's like repeating one thing on and on and on like groundhog day.
Does anybody feel the same about this hero?



Really wanna switch to another character. Maybe Tyrande.


Being a Nova main myself I can understand the frustation but shes the most fun for me. It really helps going in knowing that this hero is not to push lanes. How are you playing her? How are you building her? Because her main job is to just move around the map looking for assassinations in order to help the other lanes. Also, once you hit 10 you gotta decide how are you going to play/build her past the laning phase. Are you going to continue roaming around the map looking for victims? Or are you going to be more team fight focused?

While the build may be the same there is some variations in what you take for certain talents.


Yeah this is something I've been coming to terms with, because I'm much more accustomed to (and generally prefer) lane-pushing instead of being a lone wolf/ sniper. It's certainly an interesting change though!

Play Zeratul instead. He can do pretty much everything Nova can in terms of assassination while bringing a bunch more utility to the team. Zeratul is the superior pick like 95%+ of the time.


He's definitely a hero I want to explore further, and I know a lot of top players (like that xDaunt guy) main/ frequently play him.


I need to get around to updating The Big Book of Zeratul. All of the talent and build information is out of date with the changes that Blizzard has implemented over the past couple patches. The proper build path isn't really even debatable anymore. AA-centric builds are the way to go. I think that the optimum build is seasoned marksman, focused attack, first aid, void prison, assassin's blade, rending cleave, and nexus blades for its balance of single target damage and survivability. However, if you really want to kick the damage up a notch, the new European build is the way to go: seasoned marksman, focused attack, follow through, void prison, assassin's blade (most Euros still pick wormhold for some reason, which makes no sense to me), double bombs, and nexus blades (again, most Euros take rewind here, which also makes little sense to me). The damage that follow through adds is huge. The problem, however, is that you are less able to hang in fights without first aid, so you can't realize your full damage potential in a lot of situations. Again, this problem is mitigated in pro games, but you can't always rely upon the timely heals in solo queue. Self-sufficiency is always a virtue in that arena.



I feel like Rewind makes more sense than Nexus blades. If your goal is to proc follow through on each attack with rewind you can get 3 more procs which results in all your attacks doing 40% more damage compared to Nexus Blades only giving 20% more damage. Since you lack FA you aren't going to stick onto a target long enough to do anything more than your Rewind rotation.

I don't understand Wormhole though if you take Rewind at 20


I think you have it backwards, actually. Rewind makes more sense with Wormhole than with Assassin's Blade. With Wormhole, you can Blink => Cleave => AA => Bomb => AA => Bomb => AA => Wormhole out (keep in mind this is a very tight window to get all of that off), then use Rewind to do the combo all over again. What you don't want to do is use Rewind to reset your abilities while you stay in the fight. The limiting factor is time. Zeratul doesn't want to stay in a fight for 6 seconds. The enemy will just turn on him and blow him up. Thus, if you're not using Wormhole, you want to frontload as much of your damage as possible, which is why Nexus Blades becomes the unequivocal better pick when used in conjunction with Assassin's blade. Frankly, I think Nexus Blades is better anyway just because frontloading damage is so important with Zeratul.
Tenks
Profile Joined April 2010
United States3104 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-06-10 15:11:28
June 10 2015 15:09 GMT
#8709
Yeah it occurred to me after I posted that in conjunction with Wormhole it opens up that combo which is probably far safer. Does Blink proc Follow Through? Like would you want to Blink -> AA -> Cleave -> AA for another Follow Through? Or possibly use the E to proc Follow Through so you can just double bomb without trying to double process Follow Through on the combo.

And if you run that combo would it actually be better to take Rending Cleave at 16 at that point
Wat
xDaunt
Profile Joined March 2010
United States17988 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-06-10 15:20:23
June 10 2015 15:14 GMT
#8710
On June 11 2015 00:09 Tenks wrote:
Yeah it occurred to me after I posted that in conjunction with Wormhole it opens up that combo which is probably far safer. Does Blink proc Follow Through? Like would you want to Blink -> AA -> Cleave -> AA for another Follow Through? Or possibly use the E to proc Follow Through so you can just double bomb without trying to double process Follow Through on the combo.

Blink does proc Follow Through. If you aren't using (or don't have) the second bomb, then you can AA first before dropping your first ability. Realistically, you're only going to have time for 3 AA's before you have to Wormhole out. Mechanically, it's kind of a bitch and possibly wasteful in terms of potential. This is why I prefer Assassin's Blade to Wormhole now. In addition to increasing my damage, I can leave when I want because I will still have Blink available. The drawback is that I can't always use Blink to engage. On the flipside, Blink is a much safer exit than Wormhole, because you aren't stuck returning to a fixed spot that may no longer be safe.

As for Rending Cleave, I would still take Double Bombs when selecting Follow Through. You want the option of having the extra proc. However, Rending Cleave is better if you take First Aid at 7 (which I usually do).
Tenks
Profile Joined April 2010
United States3104 Posts
June 10 2015 15:21 GMT
#8711
Well the good news is it sounds like there are many viable paths to take on Zeratul at the moment which is pretty cool. It may just come down to playstyle preference and possibly enemy team composition for which talents to take are optimal for the individual player and the individual situation.
Wat
DarkPlasmaBall
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States46265 Posts
June 10 2015 15:25 GMT
#8712
On June 11 2015 00:06 xDaunt wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 10 2015 23:21 Tenks wrote:
On June 10 2015 22:56 xDaunt wrote:
On June 10 2015 22:19 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
On June 10 2015 22:18 xDaunt wrote:
On June 10 2015 22:13 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
On June 10 2015 22:07 Disengaged wrote:
On June 10 2015 20:21 Jenia6109 wrote:
After playing Nova for a while (a couple of months playing 2-3 games a week) i start to hate her really much.
All she can do is snipe, snipe, snipe. I always use the only one build that seems the most effective. And her gameplay is so straightforward.
You can't clear lanes. You can't attack anybody in front. You only can camp then snipe and hope that you will one-shot enemy hero. If not you are either die of go away and then repeat.
So it's like repeating one thing on and on and on like groundhog day.
Does anybody feel the same about this hero?



Really wanna switch to another character. Maybe Tyrande.


Being a Nova main myself I can understand the frustation but shes the most fun for me. It really helps going in knowing that this hero is not to push lanes. How are you playing her? How are you building her? Because her main job is to just move around the map looking for assassinations in order to help the other lanes. Also, once you hit 10 you gotta decide how are you going to play/build her past the laning phase. Are you going to continue roaming around the map looking for victims? Or are you going to be more team fight focused?

While the build may be the same there is some variations in what you take for certain talents.


Yeah this is something I've been coming to terms with, because I'm much more accustomed to (and generally prefer) lane-pushing instead of being a lone wolf/ sniper. It's certainly an interesting change though!

Play Zeratul instead. He can do pretty much everything Nova can in terms of assassination while bringing a bunch more utility to the team. Zeratul is the superior pick like 95%+ of the time.


He's definitely a hero I want to explore further, and I know a lot of top players (like that xDaunt guy) main/ frequently play him.


I need to get around to updating The Big Book of Zeratul. All of the talent and build information is out of date with the changes that Blizzard has implemented over the past couple patches. The proper build path isn't really even debatable anymore. AA-centric builds are the way to go. I think that the optimum build is seasoned marksman, focused attack, first aid, void prison, assassin's blade, rending cleave, and nexus blades for its balance of single target damage and survivability. However, if you really want to kick the damage up a notch, the new European build is the way to go: seasoned marksman, focused attack, follow through, void prison, assassin's blade (most Euros still pick wormhold for some reason, which makes no sense to me), double bombs, and nexus blades (again, most Euros take rewind here, which also makes little sense to me). The damage that follow through adds is huge. The problem, however, is that you are less able to hang in fights without first aid, so you can't realize your full damage potential in a lot of situations. Again, this problem is mitigated in pro games, but you can't always rely upon the timely heals in solo queue. Self-sufficiency is always a virtue in that arena.



I feel like Rewind makes more sense than Nexus blades. If your goal is to proc follow through on each attack with rewind you can get 3 more procs which results in all your attacks doing 40% more damage compared to Nexus Blades only giving 20% more damage. Since you lack FA you aren't going to stick onto a target long enough to do anything more than your Rewind rotation.

I don't understand Wormhole though if you take Rewind at 20


I think you have it backwards, actually. Rewind makes more sense with Wormhole than with Assassin's Blade. With Wormhole, you can Blink => Cleave => AA => Bomb => AA => Bomb => AA => Wormhole out (keep in mind this is a very tight window to get all of that off), then use Rewind to do the combo all over again.


Is this the ideal Zeratul combo for when I'm trying to assassinate heroes?
"There is nothing more satisfying than looking at a crowd of people and helping them get what I love." ~Day[9] Daily #100
xDaunt
Profile Joined March 2010
United States17988 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-06-10 15:29:45
June 10 2015 15:28 GMT
#8713
On June 11 2015 00:25 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 11 2015 00:06 xDaunt wrote:
On June 10 2015 23:21 Tenks wrote:
On June 10 2015 22:56 xDaunt wrote:
On June 10 2015 22:19 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
On June 10 2015 22:18 xDaunt wrote:
On June 10 2015 22:13 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
On June 10 2015 22:07 Disengaged wrote:
On June 10 2015 20:21 Jenia6109 wrote:
After playing Nova for a while (a couple of months playing 2-3 games a week) i start to hate her really much.
All she can do is snipe, snipe, snipe. I always use the only one build that seems the most effective. And her gameplay is so straightforward.
You can't clear lanes. You can't attack anybody in front. You only can camp then snipe and hope that you will one-shot enemy hero. If not you are either die of go away and then repeat.
So it's like repeating one thing on and on and on like groundhog day.
Does anybody feel the same about this hero?



Really wanna switch to another character. Maybe Tyrande.


Being a Nova main myself I can understand the frustation but shes the most fun for me. It really helps going in knowing that this hero is not to push lanes. How are you playing her? How are you building her? Because her main job is to just move around the map looking for assassinations in order to help the other lanes. Also, once you hit 10 you gotta decide how are you going to play/build her past the laning phase. Are you going to continue roaming around the map looking for victims? Or are you going to be more team fight focused?

While the build may be the same there is some variations in what you take for certain talents.


Yeah this is something I've been coming to terms with, because I'm much more accustomed to (and generally prefer) lane-pushing instead of being a lone wolf/ sniper. It's certainly an interesting change though!

Play Zeratul instead. He can do pretty much everything Nova can in terms of assassination while bringing a bunch more utility to the team. Zeratul is the superior pick like 95%+ of the time.


He's definitely a hero I want to explore further, and I know a lot of top players (like that xDaunt guy) main/ frequently play him.


I need to get around to updating The Big Book of Zeratul. All of the talent and build information is out of date with the changes that Blizzard has implemented over the past couple patches. The proper build path isn't really even debatable anymore. AA-centric builds are the way to go. I think that the optimum build is seasoned marksman, focused attack, first aid, void prison, assassin's blade, rending cleave, and nexus blades for its balance of single target damage and survivability. However, if you really want to kick the damage up a notch, the new European build is the way to go: seasoned marksman, focused attack, follow through, void prison, assassin's blade (most Euros still pick wormhold for some reason, which makes no sense to me), double bombs, and nexus blades (again, most Euros take rewind here, which also makes little sense to me). The damage that follow through adds is huge. The problem, however, is that you are less able to hang in fights without first aid, so you can't realize your full damage potential in a lot of situations. Again, this problem is mitigated in pro games, but you can't always rely upon the timely heals in solo queue. Self-sufficiency is always a virtue in that arena.



I feel like Rewind makes more sense than Nexus blades. If your goal is to proc follow through on each attack with rewind you can get 3 more procs which results in all your attacks doing 40% more damage compared to Nexus Blades only giving 20% more damage. Since you lack FA you aren't going to stick onto a target long enough to do anything more than your Rewind rotation.

I don't understand Wormhole though if you take Rewind at 20


I think you have it backwards, actually. Rewind makes more sense with Wormhole than with Assassin's Blade. With Wormhole, you can Blink => Cleave => AA => Bomb => AA => Bomb => AA => Wormhole out (keep in mind this is a very tight window to get all of that off), then use Rewind to do the combo all over again.


Is this the ideal Zeratul combo for when I'm trying to assassinate heroes?

If you are using Wormhole and Follow Through, yes. If you are using Assassin's Blade and Follow Through, then it is Run to Target from Behind => AA => Cleave => AA => Bomb => AA => Bomb => AA => Blink Out or Stay and continue to AA depending upon the circumstances. If you aren't using Follow Through, then it is AA => Cleave => Bomb => Bomb (if you took Double Bomb, which I don't recommend without Follow Through) => AA => AA....
xDaunt
Profile Joined March 2010
United States17988 Posts
June 10 2015 15:31 GMT
#8714
On June 11 2015 00:21 Tenks wrote:
Well the good news is it sounds like there are many viable paths to take on Zeratul at the moment which is pretty cool. It may just come down to playstyle preference and possibly enemy team composition for which talents to take are optimal for the individual player and the individual situation.

Yeah, there are a lot more options. Blizzard still needs to clean up more of the useless talents, but Zeratul isn't in a bad spot right now.
Tenks
Profile Joined April 2010
United States3104 Posts
June 10 2015 15:40 GMT
#8715
The only downside is now since Zeratul is more assassination focused it really leaves Nova out in a strange place. They both fill fairly similar roles in team fights but Nova doesn't have VP.
Wat
DarkPlasmaBall
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States46265 Posts
June 10 2015 15:40 GMT
#8716
On June 11 2015 00:28 xDaunt wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 11 2015 00:25 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
On June 11 2015 00:06 xDaunt wrote:
On June 10 2015 23:21 Tenks wrote:
On June 10 2015 22:56 xDaunt wrote:
On June 10 2015 22:19 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
On June 10 2015 22:18 xDaunt wrote:
On June 10 2015 22:13 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
On June 10 2015 22:07 Disengaged wrote:
On June 10 2015 20:21 Jenia6109 wrote:
After playing Nova for a while (a couple of months playing 2-3 games a week) i start to hate her really much.
All she can do is snipe, snipe, snipe. I always use the only one build that seems the most effective. And her gameplay is so straightforward.
You can't clear lanes. You can't attack anybody in front. You only can camp then snipe and hope that you will one-shot enemy hero. If not you are either die of go away and then repeat.
So it's like repeating one thing on and on and on like groundhog day.
Does anybody feel the same about this hero?



Really wanna switch to another character. Maybe Tyrande.


Being a Nova main myself I can understand the frustation but shes the most fun for me. It really helps going in knowing that this hero is not to push lanes. How are you playing her? How are you building her? Because her main job is to just move around the map looking for assassinations in order to help the other lanes. Also, once you hit 10 you gotta decide how are you going to play/build her past the laning phase. Are you going to continue roaming around the map looking for victims? Or are you going to be more team fight focused?

While the build may be the same there is some variations in what you take for certain talents.


Yeah this is something I've been coming to terms with, because I'm much more accustomed to (and generally prefer) lane-pushing instead of being a lone wolf/ sniper. It's certainly an interesting change though!

Play Zeratul instead. He can do pretty much everything Nova can in terms of assassination while bringing a bunch more utility to the team. Zeratul is the superior pick like 95%+ of the time.


He's definitely a hero I want to explore further, and I know a lot of top players (like that xDaunt guy) main/ frequently play him.


I need to get around to updating The Big Book of Zeratul. All of the talent and build information is out of date with the changes that Blizzard has implemented over the past couple patches. The proper build path isn't really even debatable anymore. AA-centric builds are the way to go. I think that the optimum build is seasoned marksman, focused attack, first aid, void prison, assassin's blade, rending cleave, and nexus blades for its balance of single target damage and survivability. However, if you really want to kick the damage up a notch, the new European build is the way to go: seasoned marksman, focused attack, follow through, void prison, assassin's blade (most Euros still pick wormhold for some reason, which makes no sense to me), double bombs, and nexus blades (again, most Euros take rewind here, which also makes little sense to me). The damage that follow through adds is huge. The problem, however, is that you are less able to hang in fights without first aid, so you can't realize your full damage potential in a lot of situations. Again, this problem is mitigated in pro games, but you can't always rely upon the timely heals in solo queue. Self-sufficiency is always a virtue in that arena.



I feel like Rewind makes more sense than Nexus blades. If your goal is to proc follow through on each attack with rewind you can get 3 more procs which results in all your attacks doing 40% more damage compared to Nexus Blades only giving 20% more damage. Since you lack FA you aren't going to stick onto a target long enough to do anything more than your Rewind rotation.

I don't understand Wormhole though if you take Rewind at 20


I think you have it backwards, actually. Rewind makes more sense with Wormhole than with Assassin's Blade. With Wormhole, you can Blink => Cleave => AA => Bomb => AA => Bomb => AA => Wormhole out (keep in mind this is a very tight window to get all of that off), then use Rewind to do the combo all over again.


Is this the ideal Zeratul combo for when I'm trying to assassinate heroes?

If you are using Wormhole and Follow Through, yes. If you are using Assassin's Blade and Follow Through, then it is Run to Target from Behind => AA => Cleave => AA => Bomb => AA => Bomb => AA => Blink Out or Stay and continue to AA depending upon the circumstances. If you aren't using Follow Through, then it is AA => Cleave => Bomb => Bomb (if you took Double Bomb, which I don't recommend without Follow Through) => AA => AA....


Awesome thanks
"There is nothing more satisfying than looking at a crowd of people and helping them get what I love." ~Day[9] Daily #100
xDaunt
Profile Joined March 2010
United States17988 Posts
June 10 2015 16:36 GMT
#8717
On June 11 2015 00:40 Tenks wrote:
The only downside is now since Zeratul is more assassination focused it really leaves Nova out in a strange place. They both fill fairly similar roles in team fights but Nova doesn't have VP.

Nova will continue to be the newb assassin of choice. She'll be to Zeratul what Lili is to the other healers.
Tenks
Profile Joined April 2010
United States3104 Posts
June 10 2015 16:52 GMT
#8718
I think she can do alright against the very popular HL 1+2 pick of KT + Jaina. Possibly better than Zeratul. But Zeratul can just VP them both in the back line and let your team destroy theirs since they have no more damage so who knows.
Wat
vJehoelv
Profile Joined June 2011
United States103 Posts
June 10 2015 17:40 GMT
#8719
Guilty pleasure of mine is to play Nova. I find her more fun than Zeratul.
Wuster
Profile Joined May 2011
1974 Posts
June 10 2015 18:04 GMT
#8720
On June 11 2015 01:52 Tenks wrote:
I think she can do alright against the very popular HL 1+2 pick of KT + Jaina. Possibly better than Zeratul. But Zeratul can just VP them both in the back line and let your team destroy theirs since they have no more damage so who knows.


Last few times I saw opposing double mage (or KT + Sylv) and I'm Illidan, I've actually gone for Hunt, the stun + burst potential on such a squishy glass target just feels so much more impactful than Meta over the frontline and hoping to chase them down anyways. Plus the stun limits KT's ability to zone out half the fight if you can land it before he tosses out Phoenix. Maybe this is a quick match thing as I've only tried it a few times there, but so far the results seem promising. So against a similar comp I would assume Nova blowing up KT/Jaina is better than VP.

On June 11 2015 02:40 vJehoelv wrote:
Guilty pleasure of mine is to play Nova. I find her more fun than Zeratul.


Likewise, first time I got her I played her up to lvl 7. Culminating in a Blackheart's Bay game where we got crushed but I had 20+ takedowns out of a possible 25 (rest of my team was under 15). That's when I decided that Nova is just a win-more hero, maybe on a different map all those kills could have made a difference but they just didn't.

I also formed the opinion that Nova always looks AFK in games you're losing cuz she just can't do anything other than hit and run and when you're constantly losing teamfights... she can't risk revealing herself as often and her burst is heavily neutered by level disadvantages (I know everyone's burst is, but she has less sustain than other assassins so I'd argue it effects her more).
Prev 1 434 435 436 437 438 453 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
PiG Sty Festival
12:00
Qualifier #2
PiGStarcraft450
IndyStarCraft 110
Liquipedia
Sparkling Tuna Cup
10:00
Weekly #141
Shameless vs Nicoract
CranKy Ducklings127
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
SHIN 996
Lowko504
PiGStarcraft450
Classic 202
ByuN (SOOP) 163
Maru 140
IndyStarCraft 110
herO (SOOP) 105
Rogue 80
Cure 79
Trap 61
mouzHeroMarine 41
TKL 29
StarCraft: Brood War
Shuttle 4388
Bisu 1720
Jaedong 1231
firebathero 860
EffOrt 720
Mini 584
Hyuk 420
Soulkey 407
Light 274
Stork 242
[ Show more ]
Snow 203
Barracks 142
Killer 113
Pusan 108
Rush 85
hero 83
Sea.KH 67
soO 58
Sharp 52
Free 43
sorry 21
Sexy 19
yabsab 14
zelot 13
Terrorterran 12
IntoTheRainbow 9
Icarus 8
Dota 2
Dendi2436
XBOCT1555
Counter-Strike
olofmeister2036
byalli838
x6flipin551
Super Smash Bros
Mew2King75
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor53
Other Games
singsing2248
B2W.Neo479
crisheroes276
hiko233
Sick181
Liquid`LucifroN144
Livibee67
KnowMe58
QueenE52
Organizations
StarCraft: Brood War
lovetv 11
[ Show 10 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• CranKy Ducklings SOOP10
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Other Games
• WagamamaTV243
Upcoming Events
PiGosaur Cup
11h 30m
Replay Cast
20h 30m
Kung Fu Cup
22h 30m
Replay Cast
1d 11h
The PondCast
1d 21h
Replay Cast
2 days
Escore
2 days
CranKy Ducklings
3 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
4 days
Afreeca Starleague
5 days
Rush vs Hm
Bisu vs Shuttle
[ Show More ]
WardiTV Weekly
5 days
The Patches Monday
6 days
Afreeca Starleague
6 days
Sharp vs Shinee
Action vs Shine
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-08-10
CranK Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League
Eternal Conflict S2 Finale

Ongoing

KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 3
K-JUNGMAN
Acropolis #5
RSL Revival: Season 6
Esports World Cup 2026: LCQ
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S3: W7
CSLAN 4
ASL Season 22
Escore Tournament S3: W8
Acropolis #5 - TRS
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Acropolis #5 - GSA
HSC XXX
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
PiG Sty Festival 8.0
Big Dog Cup 2026 Div 1
META DYMY #4
PGL Masters Bucharest 2026
Thunderpick World Champ.
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
Logitech G Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #5
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.