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Heroes Large General Thread - Page 398

Forum Index > Heroes of the Storm
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YouGotNothin
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States907 Posts
April 08 2015 17:16 GMT
#7941
The golem power balance shift is certainly significant. While not getting any skulls and only going for mercs is likely a bad idea (as Thezzy stated). Securing 30-40 skulls then getting out and grabbing camps seems like a bit of a wash, and not a bad idea if trying to fight for the big zombie is a bad idea. This is particularly true for the first golem which has lower health than before.

As far as the garden terror is concerned I am not sure if I have had the same experience as you, but that would be ironic if that is the outcome of the patch since they reduced the terrors movespeed to hero level from being faster than heroes to stop just what you are talking about.
I got nothin'...
Wuster
Profile Joined May 2011
1974 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-04-08 17:46:52
April 08 2015 17:45 GMT
#7942
On April 08 2015 23:33 xDaunt wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 08 2015 23:27 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote:
I think the golem nerf on the mines map is a bit too much. Feel very unrewarding to get 60-70 skulls.

I kinda agree. The first golem is almost meaningless.


I dunno, I almost ended a Hero League match with the first golem (75-ish skulls). We had Sylvanas and Zagara and the only reason we didn't end was because our Sylvanas teleported over the second wall to kill the opposing tank despite after us all agreeing that our strat was going to be push with Golem and do everything to keep Sylvanas alive (sometimes the yolo-bloodlust is just too strong).

I think strong push comps (especially Sylvanas) necessitated toning down the early golems, maybe the first golem's power varies too widely between 'strong push' and 'balanced' comps though.

Edit: Our golem still made it to their keep despite us being 4v5, then we pulled back as not to be greedy.
xDaunt
Profile Joined March 2010
United States17988 Posts
April 08 2015 17:54 GMT
#7943
On April 09 2015 02:45 Wuster wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 08 2015 23:33 xDaunt wrote:
On April 08 2015 23:27 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote:
I think the golem nerf on the mines map is a bit too much. Feel very unrewarding to get 60-70 skulls.

I kinda agree. The first golem is almost meaningless.


I dunno, I almost ended a Hero League match with the first golem (75-ish skulls). We had Sylvanas and Zagara and the only reason we didn't end was because our Sylvanas teleported over the second wall to kill the opposing tank despite after us all agreeing that our strat was going to be push with Golem and do everything to keep Sylvanas alive (sometimes the yolo-bloodlust is just too strong).

I think strong push comps (especially Sylvanas) necessitated toning down the early golems, maybe the first golem's power varies too widely between 'strong push' and 'balanced' comps though.

Edit: Our golem still made it to their keep despite us being 4v5, then we pulled back as not to be greedy.

I'd posit to you that your push was really strong because of having Sylvanas and Zagara, not because you had a 75-skull first golem.
Tenks
Profile Joined April 2010
United States3104 Posts
April 08 2015 17:57 GMT
#7944
Sylvanas alone massively increases the worth of the golem. It used to be to take down the towers + fort your golem was taking absurd damage in return for those structures. Now Sylvanas just shuts down all that damage completely so your golem can wreck those structures without actually taking much damage in return.
Wat
Wuster
Profile Joined May 2011
1974 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-04-08 17:59:22
April 08 2015 17:59 GMT
#7945
Possible, but the Golem is like a super tank that also clears creeps atop zoning and eating up cannon fire (less fire given Sylvanas).

I'm not sure we could have pushed that far with a 30 skull golem.

I would concede that the synergy there was strong and might not be strong enough with other comps, but I haven't played enough on that map post-patch to say (I guess the map randomizer change worked!).
Heyoka
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Katowice25012 Posts
April 08 2015 18:33 GMT
#7946
yay a pause function D:
@RealHeyoka | ESL / DreamHack StarCraft Lead
FreeZEternal
Profile Joined January 2003
Korea (South)3396 Posts
April 08 2015 18:53 GMT
#7947
So Raynor was not doing full damage with his Q build....dang...
739
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Bearded Elder29905 Posts
April 08 2015 19:12 GMT
#7948
Casting Sylvanas' Shadow Dagger on Rehgar will no longer cancel his Ghost Wolf form.


Good, cause it was irritating.
WriterSalty oldboy that loves memes | One and only back-to-back Liquibet Winner
xDaunt
Profile Joined March 2010
United States17988 Posts
April 08 2015 22:20 GMT
#7949
I'm convinced that Blizzard needs to implement a hard cap on the possible rank ranges of players in hero league. I'm tired of being matched with Rank 40s. There's just no excuse for ever matching a Rank 1 with a Rank 40. It's not fun for anyone involved.
deth2munkies
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States4051 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-04-08 22:53:04
April 08 2015 22:51 GMT
#7950
On April 09 2015 07:20 xDaunt wrote:
I'm convinced that Blizzard needs to implement a hard cap on the possible rank ranges of players in hero league. I'm tired of being matched with Rank 40s. There's just no excuse for ever matching a Rank 1 with a Rank 40. It's not fun for anyone involved.


The problem is that Rank in almost no way relates to skill. Anyone who plays enough with enough variance can proceed through the ranks and hit Rank 1. MMR has nothing to do with rank either, so the ranking system is completely and totally pointless.

Also @above: Sylvanas needs to be disabled on Mines, it's just impossible to anti-siege that hero unless you're so far ahead you can steamroll them.
xDaunt
Profile Joined March 2010
United States17988 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-04-08 23:23:14
April 08 2015 23:19 GMT
#7951
On April 09 2015 07:51 deth2munkies wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 09 2015 07:20 xDaunt wrote:
I'm convinced that Blizzard needs to implement a hard cap on the possible rank ranges of players in hero league. I'm tired of being matched with Rank 40s. There's just no excuse for ever matching a Rank 1 with a Rank 40. It's not fun for anyone involved.


The problem is that Rank in almost no way relates to skill. Anyone who plays enough with enough variance can proceed through the ranks and hit Rank 1. MMR has nothing to do with rank either, so the ranking system is completely and totally pointless.

Also @above: Sylvanas needs to be disabled on Mines, it's just impossible to anti-siege that hero unless you're so far ahead you can steamroll them.

I disagree. Most players will cap out eventually when they start receiving roughly as many points for wins as losses. If what you are saying were true, there'd be no shortage of rank 1s that I'd be matched with in lieu of all these rank 40s who are clearly newbs. I just had a game where I triple queued. We all were Rank 1. We got paired with 2 rank 47s who we just beyond awful. Each died 10+ times (the Valla was like 4-15 and had basically no hero damage). I don't care how you cut it, but they had no business being matched in a game with us. Yet there they were. Blizzard's matchmaker is shit and they need to own up to it.
xuanzue
Profile Joined October 2010
Colombia1747 Posts
April 08 2015 23:28 GMT
#7952
On April 09 2015 08:19 xDaunt wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 09 2015 07:51 deth2munkies wrote:
On April 09 2015 07:20 xDaunt wrote:
I'm convinced that Blizzard needs to implement a hard cap on the possible rank ranges of players in hero league. I'm tired of being matched with Rank 40s. There's just no excuse for ever matching a Rank 1 with a Rank 40. It's not fun for anyone involved.


The problem is that Rank in almost no way relates to skill. Anyone who plays enough with enough variance can proceed through the ranks and hit Rank 1. MMR has nothing to do with rank either, so the ranking system is completely and totally pointless.

Also @above: Sylvanas needs to be disabled on Mines, it's just impossible to anti-siege that hero unless you're so far ahead you can steamroll them.

I disagree. Most players will cap out eventually when they start receiving roughly as many points for wins as losses. If what you are saying were true, there'd be no shortage of rank 1s that I'd be matched with in lieu of all these rank 40s who are clearly newbs. I just had a game where I triple queued. We all were Rank 1. We got paired with 2 rank 47s who we just beyond awful. Each died 10+ times (the Valla was like 4-15 and had basically no hero damage). I don't care how you cut it, but they had no business being matched in a game with us. Yet there they were. Blizzard's matchmaker is shit and they need to own up to it.


newbs paired with veterans only happen in premades of 2-3 players.

the solution is that blizzard give a MMR to those mini-teams. so the guy rank1 whenever he wants to play with his friend rank47, can be paired with other people lvl 30
Dominions 4: "Thrones of Ascension".
xDaunt
Profile Joined March 2010
United States17988 Posts
April 08 2015 23:53 GMT
#7953
On April 09 2015 08:28 xuanzue wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 09 2015 08:19 xDaunt wrote:
On April 09 2015 07:51 deth2munkies wrote:
On April 09 2015 07:20 xDaunt wrote:
I'm convinced that Blizzard needs to implement a hard cap on the possible rank ranges of players in hero league. I'm tired of being matched with Rank 40s. There's just no excuse for ever matching a Rank 1 with a Rank 40. It's not fun for anyone involved.


The problem is that Rank in almost no way relates to skill. Anyone who plays enough with enough variance can proceed through the ranks and hit Rank 1. MMR has nothing to do with rank either, so the ranking system is completely and totally pointless.

Also @above: Sylvanas needs to be disabled on Mines, it's just impossible to anti-siege that hero unless you're so far ahead you can steamroll them.

I disagree. Most players will cap out eventually when they start receiving roughly as many points for wins as losses. If what you are saying were true, there'd be no shortage of rank 1s that I'd be matched with in lieu of all these rank 40s who are clearly newbs. I just had a game where I triple queued. We all were Rank 1. We got paired with 2 rank 47s who we just beyond awful. Each died 10+ times (the Valla was like 4-15 and had basically no hero damage). I don't care how you cut it, but they had no business being matched in a game with us. Yet there they were. Blizzard's matchmaker is shit and they need to own up to it.


newbs paired with veterans only happen in premades of 2-3 players.

the solution is that blizzard give a MMR to those mini-teams. so the guy rank1 whenever he wants to play with his friend rank47, can be paired with other people lvl 30

This is wrong. I get paired with newbs when solo-queuing all the time.

Are you guys playing the same game as I am? This is all obvious.
xuanzue
Profile Joined October 2010
Colombia1747 Posts
April 09 2015 00:04 GMT
#7954
On April 09 2015 08:53 xDaunt wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 09 2015 08:28 xuanzue wrote:
On April 09 2015 08:19 xDaunt wrote:
On April 09 2015 07:51 deth2munkies wrote:
On April 09 2015 07:20 xDaunt wrote:
I'm convinced that Blizzard needs to implement a hard cap on the possible rank ranges of players in hero league. I'm tired of being matched with Rank 40s. There's just no excuse for ever matching a Rank 1 with a Rank 40. It's not fun for anyone involved.


The problem is that Rank in almost no way relates to skill. Anyone who plays enough with enough variance can proceed through the ranks and hit Rank 1. MMR has nothing to do with rank either, so the ranking system is completely and totally pointless.

Also @above: Sylvanas needs to be disabled on Mines, it's just impossible to anti-siege that hero unless you're so far ahead you can steamroll them.

I disagree. Most players will cap out eventually when they start receiving roughly as many points for wins as losses. If what you are saying were true, there'd be no shortage of rank 1s that I'd be matched with in lieu of all these rank 40s who are clearly newbs. I just had a game where I triple queued. We all were Rank 1. We got paired with 2 rank 47s who we just beyond awful. Each died 10+ times (the Valla was like 4-15 and had basically no hero damage). I don't care how you cut it, but they had no business being matched in a game with us. Yet there they were. Blizzard's matchmaker is shit and they need to own up to it.


newbs paired with veterans only happen in premades of 2-3 players.

the solution is that blizzard give a MMR to those mini-teams. so the guy rank1 whenever he wants to play with his friend rank47, can be paired with other people lvl 30

This is wrong. I get paired with newbs when solo-queuing all the time.

Are you guys playing the same game as I am? This is all obvious.


and they are in solo queue too? have you asked them?
Dominions 4: "Thrones of Ascension".
xDaunt
Profile Joined March 2010
United States17988 Posts
April 09 2015 00:21 GMT
#7955
On April 09 2015 09:04 xuanzue wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 09 2015 08:53 xDaunt wrote:
On April 09 2015 08:28 xuanzue wrote:
On April 09 2015 08:19 xDaunt wrote:
On April 09 2015 07:51 deth2munkies wrote:
On April 09 2015 07:20 xDaunt wrote:
I'm convinced that Blizzard needs to implement a hard cap on the possible rank ranges of players in hero league. I'm tired of being matched with Rank 40s. There's just no excuse for ever matching a Rank 1 with a Rank 40. It's not fun for anyone involved.


The problem is that Rank in almost no way relates to skill. Anyone who plays enough with enough variance can proceed through the ranks and hit Rank 1. MMR has nothing to do with rank either, so the ranking system is completely and totally pointless.

Also @above: Sylvanas needs to be disabled on Mines, it's just impossible to anti-siege that hero unless you're so far ahead you can steamroll them.

I disagree. Most players will cap out eventually when they start receiving roughly as many points for wins as losses. If what you are saying were true, there'd be no shortage of rank 1s that I'd be matched with in lieu of all these rank 40s who are clearly newbs. I just had a game where I triple queued. We all were Rank 1. We got paired with 2 rank 47s who we just beyond awful. Each died 10+ times (the Valla was like 4-15 and had basically no hero damage). I don't care how you cut it, but they had no business being matched in a game with us. Yet there they were. Blizzard's matchmaker is shit and they need to own up to it.


newbs paired with veterans only happen in premades of 2-3 players.

the solution is that blizzard give a MMR to those mini-teams. so the guy rank1 whenever he wants to play with his friend rank47, can be paired with other people lvl 30

This is wrong. I get paired with newbs when solo-queuing all the time.

Are you guys playing the same game as I am? This is all obvious.


and they are in solo queue too? have you asked them?

I have not asked, but it sure does not seem like they are partied in game. And even assuming that they are, tossing me into the mix with a bunch of Rank 40s does not balance out the fact that the other team is usually composed rank 5-30 players. Besides, given the frequency with which this is occurring I highly doubt that I am the chosen one who is damned to forever be thrown into newb premades when I solo queue.
Chairman Ray
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
United States11903 Posts
April 09 2015 01:56 GMT
#7956
The matchmaking system right now does not try to match people with similar MMR. Instead, they slot people in so that each team has the same average MMR. Theoretically this should make the game fair, but it doesn't really produce a very tasteful game.
dae
Profile Joined June 2010
Canada1600 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-04-09 02:45:14
April 09 2015 02:41 GMT
#7957
On April 09 2015 08:28 xuanzue wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 09 2015 08:19 xDaunt wrote:
On April 09 2015 07:51 deth2munkies wrote:
On April 09 2015 07:20 xDaunt wrote:
I'm convinced that Blizzard needs to implement a hard cap on the possible rank ranges of players in hero league. I'm tired of being matched with Rank 40s. There's just no excuse for ever matching a Rank 1 with a Rank 40. It's not fun for anyone involved.


The problem is that Rank in almost no way relates to skill. Anyone who plays enough with enough variance can proceed through the ranks and hit Rank 1. MMR has nothing to do with rank either, so the ranking system is completely and totally pointless.

Also @above: Sylvanas needs to be disabled on Mines, it's just impossible to anti-siege that hero unless you're so far ahead you can steamroll them.

I disagree. Most players will cap out eventually when they start receiving roughly as many points for wins as losses. If what you are saying were true, there'd be no shortage of rank 1s that I'd be matched with in lieu of all these rank 40s who are clearly newbs. I just had a game where I triple queued. We all were Rank 1. We got paired with 2 rank 47s who we just beyond awful. Each died 10+ times (the Valla was like 4-15 and had basically no hero damage). I don't care how you cut it, but they had no business being matched in a game with us. Yet there they were. Blizzard's matchmaker is shit and they need to own up to it.


newbs paired with veterans only happen in premades of 2-3 players.

the solution is that blizzard give a MMR to those mini-teams. so the guy rank1 whenever he wants to play with his friend rank47, can be paired with other people lvl 30


When you get very high rated you end up getting matching with lower and lower rated players.

See my Hero League Sky Temple game on 4/6/2015 3:40:16 PM - https://www.hotslogs.com/Player/MatchHistory?PlayerID=1427531

Can you honestly tell me that I should be in that game? Or that it's good matchmaking for me to be in it?

You can find alot of examples of those types of games in my match history, usually when I'm playing off peak hours - Almost all of those ques are 6+ minutes though.

Ideally matchmaking should take the 10 highest rated players in que, make a game out of them, and then repeat. Or at least try and limit the individual rating spread as well as the difference in the teams total ratings.

Either way it will be better with more players, but it's painful while it lasts :-(.
xDaunt
Profile Joined March 2010
United States17988 Posts
April 09 2015 02:59 GMT
#7958
On April 09 2015 11:41 dae wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 09 2015 08:28 xuanzue wrote:
On April 09 2015 08:19 xDaunt wrote:
On April 09 2015 07:51 deth2munkies wrote:
On April 09 2015 07:20 xDaunt wrote:
I'm convinced that Blizzard needs to implement a hard cap on the possible rank ranges of players in hero league. I'm tired of being matched with Rank 40s. There's just no excuse for ever matching a Rank 1 with a Rank 40. It's not fun for anyone involved.


The problem is that Rank in almost no way relates to skill. Anyone who plays enough with enough variance can proceed through the ranks and hit Rank 1. MMR has nothing to do with rank either, so the ranking system is completely and totally pointless.

Also @above: Sylvanas needs to be disabled on Mines, it's just impossible to anti-siege that hero unless you're so far ahead you can steamroll them.

I disagree. Most players will cap out eventually when they start receiving roughly as many points for wins as losses. If what you are saying were true, there'd be no shortage of rank 1s that I'd be matched with in lieu of all these rank 40s who are clearly newbs. I just had a game where I triple queued. We all were Rank 1. We got paired with 2 rank 47s who we just beyond awful. Each died 10+ times (the Valla was like 4-15 and had basically no hero damage). I don't care how you cut it, but they had no business being matched in a game with us. Yet there they were. Blizzard's matchmaker is shit and they need to own up to it.


newbs paired with veterans only happen in premades of 2-3 players.

the solution is that blizzard give a MMR to those mini-teams. so the guy rank1 whenever he wants to play with his friend rank47, can be paired with other people lvl 30


When you get very high rated you end up getting matching with lower and lower rated players.

See my Hero League Sky Temple game on 4/6/2015 3:40:16 PM - https://www.hotslogs.com/Player/MatchHistory?PlayerID=1427531

Can you honestly tell me that I should be in that game? Or that it's good matchmaking for me to be in it?

You can find alot of examples of those types of games in my match history, usually when I'm playing off peak hours - Almost all of those ques are 6+ minutes though.

Ideally matchmaking should take the 10 highest rated players in que, make a game out of them, and then repeat. Or at least try and limit the individual rating spread as well as the difference in the teams total ratings.

Either way it will be better with more players, but it's painful while it lasts :-(.


Ouch, and you had Scarlett on your team, too. My condolences.
[Phantom]
Profile Blog Joined August 2013
Mexico2170 Posts
April 09 2015 05:32 GMT
#7959
The "ignore the mines" strat comes from early alpha, where people realized that actually ignoring the mines and taking mercenary camps was better than getting skulls, then Blizzard redesigned the map and became the base race that we all knew.

However this new changes are interesting.

First of all, if you get a 70 akull golem or more, it will be nerfed to compensate and not be as powerful, and the first golems are less powerful, which is a good thing because it makes the game snowball a little less, but have interesting implications. Exacly how strong are the golems now? Does this mean that you shouldn't ignore anymore the non-golem lane? Weaker golems mean that mercenary camps, like the siege giagants, will be stronger agasin't the wolem, but since it is weker now, maybe theres no need to take them now?
WriterTeamLiquid Staff writer since 2014 @Mortal_Phantom
dae
Profile Joined June 2010
Canada1600 Posts
April 09 2015 05:44 GMT
#7960
On April 09 2015 14:32 [Phantom] wrote:
The "ignore the mines" strat comes from early alpha, where people realized that actually ignoring the mines and taking mercenary camps was better than getting skulls, then Blizzard redesigned the map and became the base race that we all knew.

However this new changes are interesting.

First of all, if you get a 70 akull golem or more, it will be nerfed to compensate and not be as powerful, and the first golems are less powerful, which is a good thing because it makes the game snowball a little less, but have interesting implications. Exacly how strong are the golems now? Does this mean that you shouldn't ignore anymore the non-golem lane? Weaker golems mean that mercenary camps, like the siege giagants, will be stronger agasin't the wolem, but since it is weker now, maybe theres no need to take them now?


Right now, it seems that you almost always want to fight for the small skull camps, but if the other team has an edge on you (health, level, teamcomp for fighting) it's almost as good as boss to just get the bruisers.
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