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On February 25 2015 00:53 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2015 00:32 NonY wrote:
One thing I don't understand about Haunted Mines strategy is always starting the game by sending 4 players to the lane where your golem spawns. Isn't that, in some cases, clearly going to favor one team more than the other? I mean if you went against this setup and you purposely set it up to be 4v4 and 1v1 instead of 4v1 and 1v4, and you have a team comp that's going to win both lanes, or for whatever reason you figure you have a team comp that'll benefit more from all the towers being alive (yours and your enemies) for first golem instead of all towers being dead, then shouldn't you do that? Or maybe your team doesn't have particularly good talents at lvl 4 for teamfighting, so by preventing any towers from dying, you're making the fight over the skulls lvl 3 vs lvl 3.
Even if you can't figure any of that shit out for sure isn't it just kind of a coin flip? I mean assuming that, for all you know, each team is going to do equal damage to each other either way, it's just a different amount and kind of damage that you're doing to each other whether you 4v4/1v1 or 1v4/4v1, and you can't figure out which one is better for which team, then why always choose the same one? Maybe it's just a quirk of the way players play at the MMR I'm at but I'd like to see people put actual thought into it and try to make an intelligent decision and get some experience seeing how the games play out either way. Even if you can figure it out it is still a coinflip though. It is so easy to screw up positioning in a 4v4 situation that you could end up losing it even if you're far ahead in theory. Mines is the map where comebacks are practically impossible so getting behind early on is going to lose you the game. If you make the assumption that you're better than the opponents then doing the safe traditional 4-1 split and outplaying them when mines comes makes more sense.
I feel like mines is a badly misplayed map right now in pubs (even worse than Dragon Shire). The three biggest mistakes that I see are failing to properly group during the first skull collection and win a decisive teamfight (this is the right move in 99% of pub games, regardless of team comps), chasing heroes needlessly out of mines after winning a teamfight instead of finishing skull collection, and capping siege giants too early on the defense (I can't believe people still screw this up so much). And like you point out, mines is an incredibly unforgiving map. If you lose on the first skull collection and then screw up your siege giants, it is virtually GG at that point.
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On February 25 2015 02:52 boxerfred wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2015 00:54 KadaverBB wrote:
This is what I am doing, it is working pretty well eventhough Nova is probably one of the weaker heroes right now.
1) Ambush Snipe
4) Gathering Power
7)Anti-Armor Shells
10)Precision Strike
13)Advamced Cloaking
16)Crippling Shot
20)Either rewind or blink, depending on how the game is going. If you think you can afford rewind take it, but don't be afraid to be more defensive and take blink That is interesting, I normally go with that triple shot thing and choose that instead of rewind/blink.
I find PS much, much more impactful in team fights. Which is what the entire game is about. 3Tap + lvl 20 3Tap can make you feel cool but rarely does it swing the tides of a team fight. If split pushing/rat was more a thing in this game 3Tap would be great but as it stands PS can front load a ton of damage onto a team at the start of a team fight where 3Tap is simply about finishing off an already won fight (generally.)
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Caldeum1977 Posts
I've been going Lethal Decoy and Double Fake along with Triple Tap. The ult is more of a preference, but the Decoys can actually do some decent damage and with the extra decoy it's much easier to fool people into attacking the wrong one. Mainly though it's just more fun 
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On February 25 2015 00:54 KadaverBB wrote:
This is what I am doing, it is working pretty well eventhough Nova is probably one of the weaker heroes right now.
1) Ambush Snipe
4) Gathering Power
7)Anti-Armor Shells
10)Precision Strike
13)Advamced Cloaking
16)Crippling Shot
20)Either rewind or blink, depending on how the game is going. If you think you can afford rewind take it, but don't be afraid to be more defensive and take blink
I've been experimenting with getting tazer shot just so that crippling shot can be on someone for nearly 2x as long. You lose out on the early damage from snipe, but late game I think it helps team damage more. I'm not sure if I ever picked up advanced cloaking, I always seem to take decoy dmg or spell shield instead, I don't really have a problem escaping once I'm cloaked but I should experiment with that as well.
On February 25 2015 02:55 Tenks wrote:
I find PS much, much more impactful in team fights. Which is what the entire game is about. 3Tap + lvl 20 3Tap can make you feel cool but rarely does it swing the tides of a team fight. If split pushing/rat was more a thing in this game 3Tap would be great but as it stands PS can front load a ton of damage onto a team at the start of a team fight where 3Tap is simply about finishing off an already won fight (generally.)
PS is pretty hard to land at the start of the fight, especially since disengaging is very easy with many heroes having mobility skills. Unless my team has lockdown or their team is forced to commit to objectives like sky temple, I think 3tap more of a safe/noobtube pickup. But if the situation is right, I think both ults have a place.
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PS could probably work very well combined with Zeratul's Void Prison.
Had a Zeratul last night that managed to trap the entire enemy team, allowing all of us to setup our attack.
Never saw a team melt that fast, though they probably dun goofed to get trapped in the first place.
Still, Zeratul managed to trap 2-3 heroes at the same time with it, several times throughout the game.
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On February 25 2015 04:05 Thezzy wrote:
PS could probably work very well combined with Zeratul's Void Prison.
Had a Zeratul last night that managed to trap the entire enemy team, allowing all of us to setup our attack.
Never saw a team melt that fast, though they probably dun goofed to get trapped in the first place.
Still, Zeratul managed to trap 2-3 heroes at the same time with it, several times throughout the game.
This is why I laugh whenever people chide me for first picking Zeratul. VP sets up so many plays (in addition to Zeratul's other bullshit) that he is one hero who can legitimately carry teams if played right.
Speaking of Zeratul, I've been playing around with taking sustained anomaly over gathering power recently. It definitely is better in many situations -- particularly if your team is wombo combo oriented. I almost always pick it if my team has an ETC on it now. For the most part, I don't notice the missing 5-15% gathering power bonus.
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One thing that is bugging me is this game is supposed to be the casual friendly game. 3-5 games a day and you're good. But you can't complete your daily quests (unless you feel like playing sub optimally) doing this in hero league. You pretty much have to queue for QM to do your daily quests and unless I have more free time than usual leaves very little time for hero.
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When you queue for Hero League you're at the less casual side of the spectrum. If you want to approach the game casually, it is friendly. You can casually complete quests in coop or QM. You could casually queue Hero League and pick the champ that works because you're playing casually. Or you could play Hero League to win and then you may have to sacrifice quest efficiency. I'm not sure how else you want it to look.
Also, LoL's new champ Bard has a very Zerutal void prism-esque ult. Thought that was interesting and looks fun
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On February 25 2015 04:59 Tenks wrote:
One thing that is bugging me is this game is supposed to be the casual friendly game. 3-5 games a day and you're good. But you can't complete your daily quests (unless you feel like playing sub optimally) doing this in hero league. You pretty much have to queue for QM to do your daily quests and unless I have more free time than usual leaves very little time for hero.
This is why you wait for three quests to stack up so you can complete multiple quests at the same time.
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On Into the Nexus they were talking about people who make the dumbest Hero League picks to complete quests... so apparently that's a thing now.
I guess that's more for the lower ranks where people don't care as much about min/maxing and/or people smurf and think they can get away with it.
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On February 25 2015 05:04 mordek wrote:When you queue for Hero League you're at the less casual side of the spectrum. If you want to approach the game casually, it is friendly. You can casually complete quests in coop or QM. You could casually queue Hero League and pick the champ that works because you're playing casually. Or you could play Hero League to win and then you may have to sacrifice quest efficiency. I'm not sure how else you want it to look. Also, LoL's new champ Bard has a very Zerutal void prism-esque ult. Thought that was interesting and looks fun
I'd prefer just static bonuses of like +150 gold for "First game of the day" and another +150 gold for "First win of the day." I actually really dislike the daily quests forcing me into playing roles/heroes I don't actually feel like playing.
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Mexico2170 Posts
On February 25 2015 05:35 Tenks wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2015 05:04 mordek wrote:When you queue for Hero League you're at the less casual side of the spectrum. If you want to approach the game casually, it is friendly. You can casually complete quests in coop or QM. You could casually queue Hero League and pick the champ that works because you're playing casually. Or you could play Hero League to win and then you may have to sacrifice quest efficiency. I'm not sure how else you want it to look. Also, LoL's new champ Bard has a very Zerutal void prism-esque ult. Thought that was interesting and looks fun I'd prefer just static bonuses of like +150 gold for "First game of the day" and another +150 gold for "First win of the day." I actually really dislike the daily quests forcing me into playing roles/heroes I don't actually feel like playing.
Then don't play them unless you feel like playing them some dya in the future, thats why they stack. And being familiar/owning at least one hero of every role is a good thing to do.
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On February 25 2015 05:44 [Phantom] wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2015 05:35 Tenks wrote:On February 25 2015 05:04 mordek wrote:When you queue for Hero League you're at the less casual side of the spectrum. If you want to approach the game casually, it is friendly. You can casually complete quests in coop or QM. You could casually queue Hero League and pick the champ that works because you're playing casually. Or you could play Hero League to win and then you may have to sacrifice quest efficiency. I'm not sure how else you want it to look. Also, LoL's new champ Bard has a very Zerutal void prism-esque ult. Thought that was interesting and looks fun I'd prefer just static bonuses of like +150 gold for "First game of the day" and another +150 gold for "First win of the day." I actually really dislike the daily quests forcing me into playing roles/heroes I don't actually feel like playing. Then don't play them unless you feel like playing them some dya in the future, thats why they stack. And being familiar/owning at least one hero of every role is a good thing to do.
I've played this game since day 1 of Alpha. It is getting old being forced to play stuff I don't actually feel like playing (for the record I already have 3 daily quests in queue because I don't feel like completing them.) I already know the heroes. And like I said it also means in any given hero league match I may or may not be able to complete the quest since I may have to play support but I have the warrior daily.
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On February 25 2015 05:50 Tenks wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2015 05:44 [Phantom] wrote:On February 25 2015 05:35 Tenks wrote:On February 25 2015 05:04 mordek wrote:When you queue for Hero League you're at the less casual side of the spectrum. If you want to approach the game casually, it is friendly. You can casually complete quests in coop or QM. You could casually queue Hero League and pick the champ that works because you're playing casually. Or you could play Hero League to win and then you may have to sacrifice quest efficiency. I'm not sure how else you want it to look. Also, LoL's new champ Bard has a very Zerutal void prism-esque ult. Thought that was interesting and looks fun I'd prefer just static bonuses of like +150 gold for "First game of the day" and another +150 gold for "First win of the day." I actually really dislike the daily quests forcing me into playing roles/heroes I don't actually feel like playing. Then don't play them unless you feel like playing them some dya in the future, thats why they stack. And being familiar/owning at least one hero of every role is a good thing to do. I've played this game since day 1 of Alpha. It is getting old being forced to play stuff I don't actually feel like playing (for the record I already have 3 daily quests in queue because I don't feel like completing them.) I already know the heroes. And like I said it also means in any given hero league match I may or may not be able to complete the quest since I may have to play support but I have the warrior daily.
If it's important to you, just do 3 coop games. It will take the same amount of time as a close Hero League game. I understand you don't like there being tension but you should just identify what you want as a priority: Hero League rank or making gold for more Heroes.
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Lol so the game design is you can't have both? They've already said quests is their intended route to your primary gold income in this game so now in this casual friendly F2P I have to spend 30 minutes playing with bots simply to get my daily gold income? Like I said I play QM most of the time because I really don't have a ton of time to devote to the game most days just to knock out my dailies. But I far prefer hero league to QM.
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You can complete dailies in practice mode too, bots are easier and allied bots more often than not will auto win the game when left alone. Just spam queued move commands from lane to fountain, afk for 20minutes and win. Or actively play and win in 10.
Or you can play normally in QM or hero league and complete quests, too.
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Man, I get that. I play on average 2 games of Heroes a day. I just prioritize the quests because I only own ten Heroes and I'd like more. When I don't have quests I play Hero League. This is ok because I recognize Hero League is not the casual outlet. If you're casual then don't be so frustrated on the sacrifices needed to play Hero League optimally.
I'm not trying to argue with you, I'm just working under these premises: Blizzard is not reading this forum for complaints on the quest/hero league tension. It is what it is. If you want to vent, I'm also ok with that. What I'm offering is a perspective to be happier and have more fun playing the game. There's going to be tons of situations irl that will demand a similar prioritization and conscious decision on what to focus on or sacrifice. It's good practice
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I'm not venting just trying to generate conversation and opinions. Personally when daily quests were first introduced I thought it was cool. It was forcing me out of my comfort zone. However I've now played enough to know what roles/heroes I find fun and I gravitate towards those heroes and roles. Lately I've seen daily quests as more of a chore than an added-fun feature. And I feel like anything in these games that isn't fun should be reviewed and discussed.
To put it in perspective I'm starting to view daily quests very similarly to talent gating (which I also hate.) I am aware of Blizzard's intentions behind it and I'm aware you can ungate a hero pretty easily with 3 games of co-op but that doesn't make it fun nor interesting. It is just tedious.
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I assume they'll add the option to reroll quests,which should help with your concerns. It's more of a matter of when, rather than if.
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On February 25 2015 06:11 sushiko wrote:
I assume they'll add the option to reroll quests,which should help with your concerns. It's more of a matter of when, rather than if.
That's a good point.
I just see it as incidental gold gain. It influences my picks, if I have Assassin quest I'll request to play an assassin in Hero League but if it doesn't work out I just don't sweat it. A quest taking an extra day or two to complete isn't worth ruining my Hero League experience. It would be really cool to be able to toggle either you get the random quest (more gold but more games/restrictions) or you only get first win or game of the day (for less gold)
I think that would be both cool and let players feel like they had more control.
edit: also sorry if I read more frustration into your posts than was actually there, I think it kinda just blurred with other posts in the recent past from others complaining about the ranked mode not being as casual as they'd like which doesn't make sense to me. Anyways, cheers
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