Over the last few weeks I've done a ton of research (aside from actually sitting in at the BlizzCon panels over the years and playing the game myself) and brushing up on my Blizzard All-Stars knowledge, and finally decided to begin my informational series for the game. I've been playing a lot of DOTA2 recently, which is what sparked my renewed interest in All-Stars. Sure, the game isn't out quite yet, but why should this stop us from hyping it up?
If you want to learn about Blizzard All-Stars, watch my series! I released the first episode today (9/19) and will be following it up with more episodes I've already planned out, covering known gameplay mechanics, heroes, items, and then of course, some speculation and suggestions.
i think All-stars will be a good game to play but I don't think it will have the same appeal as an esport, especially to old school dota fans. Simpler is better to play if ur not hardcore about the game but usually it requires removing depth from the game, hopefully Blizzard can figure out a way to have both.
On September 20 2012 08:42 GizmoPT wrote: sixennnnnnnnnnnn! :p
hehe, hai2u.
On September 20 2012 09:00 emythrel wrote: i think All-stars will be a good game to play but I don't think it will have the same appeal as an esport, especially to old school dota fans. Simpler is better to play if ur not hardcore about the game but usually it requires removing depth from the game, hopefully Blizzard can figure out a way to have both.
It's going to attract a lot of casual gamers for sure, but because it is already in SC2, all of the eSports features and tools already exist and will be available to us from the get go: replays, spectating, etc. The only thing we need to make this an eSports is a community surrounding it and tournament organizers to organize tournaments. They aren't necessarily removing depth entirely, they're just taking it out of one aspect and inserting it elsewhere. There's still strategy involved, for sure (team composition, map control, countering, ganking, etc). It's all about that "easy to learn, difficult to master" approach, .
On September 20 2012 09:00 emythrel wrote: i think All-stars will be a good game to play but I don't think it will have the same appeal as an esport, especially to old school dota fans. Simpler is better to play if ur not hardcore about the game but usually it requires removing depth from the game, hopefully Blizzard can figure out a way to have both.
It's going to attract a lot of casual gamers for sure, but because it is already in SC2, all of the eSports features and tools already exist and will be available to us from the get go: replays, spectating, etc. The only thing we need to make this an eSports is a community surrounding it and tournament organizers to organize tournaments. They aren't necessarily removing depth entirely, they're just taking it out of one aspect and inserting it elsewhere. There's still strategy involved, for sure (team composition, map control, countering, ganking, etc). It's all about that "easy to learn, difficult to master" approach, .
On September 20 2012 09:14 Sixen wrote: but because it is already in SC2, all of the eSports features and tools already exist and will be available to us from the get go: replays, spectating, etc.
On September 20 2012 09:14 Sixen wrote: spectating
StarCraft 2, where spectator lagging hurts the gameplay for players.
B-Allstar will be really good casual game to play after laddering from SC2. One thing Blizzard did better than other ARTS games out there is hero model imo.
On September 20 2012 09:23 chuDr3t4 wrote: StarCraft 2, where spectator lagging hurts the gameplay for players.
It's only getting better, :p.
On September 20 2012 09:25 Wildmoon wrote: B-Allstar will be really good casual game to play after laddering from SC2. One thing Blizzard did better than other ARTS games out there is hero model imo.
Possibly, I'd argue that isn't necessarily true though... Since you'll be laddering on All-Stars as well, .
On September 20 2012 09:25 Wildmoon wrote: B-Allstar will be really good casual game to play after laddering from SC2. One thing Blizzard did better than other ARTS games out there is hero model imo.
Possibly, I'd argue that isn't necessarily true though... Since you'll be laddering on All-Stars as well, .
There are ladders and there are ladders I'm high diamond and working on masters in 1v1 but 4v4 I'm simply silver because i like doing weird stuff (and sometimes my random partners simply suck so hard that I cannot carry them).
I don't think I'll take any ladder beside 1v1 as "serious".
good stuff. I am looking forward to blizzard allstars. I like a lot of the things they want to do differently. Let's hope it turns out great. They took quite some time for developing it (as usual). also looking forward to more episodes from you.
I believe it won't be able to compete with LoL/DotA2. Obviously the following points are opinions, not facts.
1) I believe it will be a bit too simplified with the removal of stuff such as LH. I understand the thought process, I can't agree with it. It makes for a dull way of earning gold, and a bit boring after a while. It might be fun for the first 10 games, afterwards it might get annoying. (When I think about my original DotA Razor, a hero that I spent so much time working on getting good LH )
2) The hero pool is way too small. Sure their hero will be very diverse with no hero similar to another (well with 16 heroes I sure hope so), but in the end, I feel like it can't compete with the 100+ heroes DotA will offer once every DotA 1 hero is ported to DotA 2 (108, 107 if they still plan on not porting techies). You can find hero much more suited to your play style than possible in All-Stars. I don't know how many champions LoL has, but I believe it is also over a 100 right ? This will also make games of All-Stars very similar to one another.
3) The last point and the main one I feel, is the way the game is setup. From what I understand currently, the game is a custom map in SC2 right ? This means you actually have to buy SC2 to play the game. LoL is F2P, DotA 2 is F2P (Tho it currently isn't, the game cost around 5$ if you know where to look), even HoN is F2P. Every ARTS out there is currently F2P, with the exception of DotA 2 (ATM). SC2 cost maybe 30-40 $ ? It's a lot of money for a guy that doesn't own SC, or has no interest in it. It's a big turnoff. Finally the interface SC2 has currently isn't up to par with DotA 2's (don't know about LoL, I don't play it). In DotA 2 you can watch live games, replays of pro players without leaving the client, replays, a learn tab, cosmetic items. You also have the ingame store and the tournament ticket thingy (watch pro game with commentary from inside the client). You can observer on going game and so on.
I like the fact that game are shorter and that there is a multiple number of maps tho But it's not really that important all in all. I also like they are making big changes, despite my point number 1, I just feel like it's the wrong changes In my opinion it's not a good change when you remove instead of add.
P.S. What is the "Siege" hero type you were talking about ?
On September 20 2012 10:12 Tula wrote: Possibly, I'd argue that isn't necessarily true though... Since you'll be laddering on All-Stars as well, .
There are ladders and there are ladders I'm high diamond and working on masters in 1v1 but 4v4 I'm simply silver because i like doing weird stuff (and sometimes my random partners simply suck so hard that I cannot carry them).
I don't think I'll take any ladder beside 1v1 as "serious".[/QUOTE] Sure and that's your prerogative! But keep in mind, this cannot be played "solo," you're always given a team. There will be "grandmaster" level All-Stars players that are playing the game very well (read: competitively).
On September 20 2012 10:24 Chriscras wrote: Have you played the Witch Doctor in All Stars? Is it Diablo-esque? <3
I can't wait for them to release this game feels like foreverrrrr~!
I actually haven't gotten a chance to play the WD, I think I played Kerrigan, ;O.
On September 20 2012 10:27 archonOOid wrote: Where can I play BAS in the HotS client or in a BAS application?
The beta is currently not yet out, when it is out, you'll know, and it will be played on the SC2 client.
On September 20 2012 10:42 SpiZe wrote: I believe it won't be able to compete with LoL/DotA2. Obviously the following points are opinions, not facts.
1) I believe it will be a bit too simplified with the removal of stuff such as LH. I understand the thought process, I can't agree with it. It makes for a dull way of earning gold, and a bit boring after a while. It might be fun for the first 10 games, afterwards it might get annoying. (When I think about my original DotA Razor, a hero that I spent so much time working on getting good LH )
2) The hero pool is way too small. Sure their hero will be very diverse with no hero similar to another (well with 16 heroes I sure hope so), but in the end, I feel like it can't compete with the 100+ heroes DotA will offer once every DotA 1 hero is ported to DotA 2 (108, 107 if they still plan on not porting techies). You can find hero much more suited to your play style than possible in All-Stars. I don't know how many champions LoL has, but I believe it is also over a 100 right ? This will also make games of All-Stars very similar to one another.
3) The last point and the main one I feel, is the way the game is setup. From what I understand currently, the game is a custom map in SC2 right ? This means you actually have to buy SC2 to play the game. LoL is F2P, DotA 2 is F2P (Tho it currently isn't, the game cost around 5$ if you know where to look), even HoN is F2P. Every ARTS out there is currently F2P, with the exception of DotA 2 (ATM). SC2 cost maybe 30-40 $ ? It's a lot of money for a guy that doesn't own SC, or has no interest in it. It's a big turnoff. Finally the interface SC2 has currently isn't up to par with DotA 2's (don't know about LoL, I don't play it). In DotA 2 you can watch live games, replays of pro players without leaving the client, replays, a learn tab, cosmetic items. You also have the ingame store and the tournament ticket thingy (watch pro game with commentary from inside the client). You can observer on going game and so on.
I like the fact that game are shorter and that there is a multiple number of maps tho But it's not really that important all in all. I also like they are making big changes, despite my point number 1, I just feel like it's the wrong changes In my opinion it's not a good change when you remove instead of add.
P.S. What is the "Siege" hero type you were talking about ?
1) This is why I believe the game will compete with LoL, rather than DotA2. My background in ARTS games is primarily DotA 1 and now DOTA 2. LoL, on the other hand, has had denying removed, and simply kept LH'ing. BAS is just taking it one step further.
2) Agreed, the hero pool is really small at the moment. It's launching with 16 heroes, but will expand over time.
3) Correct, as of current, the game is just planned to be an SC2 "mod," with a lot of support, and can be played on the Starter Edition (which means you don't have to own SC2 to play, making it virtually free). However, it will also be tied into the MMS, so you can "queue up" for an All-Stars game and be placed against people of your skill level, similar to Melee. Their long-term plans are to turn it into a stand-alone client though. As far as eSports/Spectator tools go, SC2 has a lot of them already in place, but yes, I definitely think they need to add the ability to spectate within the client. The good news is, a lot of people think this way, so if they do ever add this for ladder/melee, we'll get it automatically for All-Stars, .
The Siege Hero type is a role that is mainly meant for pushing lanes. Additionally, they can outrange towers. I'll get into it more in episode #2, where I'll be showcasing the heroes and their roles, . Great post though!
I dont like this "take down idea" Kill/assist is way better... What i think heroes with AoE skills well be always overfeed , because they hit everyone and take gold for every enemy hero killed..and other heroes.. what.. ? must focus every enemy hero and hit them " once" to get gold.. ? or what ?:D
On September 20 2012 11:34 pallad wrote: I dont like this "take down idea" Kill/assist is way better... What i think heroes with AoE skills well be always overfeed , because they hit everyone and take gold for every enemy hero killed..and other heroes.. what.. ? must focus every enemy hero and hit them " once" to get gold.. ? or what ?:D
I was a bit skeptical at first as well, but think about it a little further. When you're playing in a game of DOTA2, you're all about playing for yourself if you're in a pub. You engage the enemy, someone else runs in and steals your kill by getting the last hit... Now you're angry. If you're on a pre-made team, getting takedowns is almost the same as just getting an assist, so what are we looking at here? Encouraging more teamwork for pubs and keeping the same amount of teamwork for pre-mades. Seems like a pretty solid system imo, .
As far as how they'll determine what should be considered a takedown, I'm not entirely sure. They may require you to simply be in the general vicinity. Another example: if you're playing, say, Omniknight or Dazzle, and you're literally just in the teamfight to heal your team and smoke out if necessary, then you don't be doing much DPS, if any at all. In DOTA2, if you don't get a hit on the enemy, you won't even get an assist, whereas BAS would grant you a TD.
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But it's not really that important all in all. I also like they are making big changes, despite my point number 1, I just feel like it's the wrong changes 
In my opinion it's not a good change when you remove instead of add.
