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On November 16 2016 17:05 dAPhREAk wrote:Show nested quote +On November 16 2016 16:40 Melliflue wrote:On November 16 2016 06:31 dAPhREAk wrote:
i was thinking inkmaster would be good in a freeze mage deck. pyroblast + frostbolt + ice lance for 17 damage for the win after an alexstraza. or a 5/5 on board plus a big spell (e.g., flamestrike) for board clear. Would you give up the second Frost Nova, Doomsayer, Blizzard, Frostbolt, Ice Lance, Fireball, etc. for the Inkmaster? If you were already considering a deck with no duplicates then I can see the appeal but is she worth that massive drawback on her own? Reno worked because his effect was HUGE. The no duplicates restriction even hurts Solia because you are less likely to have her and Flamestrike (or Firelands Portal or Pyroblast) in hand. my freezereno deck runs two novas, two doomsayers, one blizzard, two frosts, two ice lance and one fireball; also twoof each of the secrets. i think the same can be done for this. not sure if its worth it, but may be good, got to test it.
How often do you get to play Reno with his battlecry? I once tried a Reno-based control shaman and the only duplicates were Hex and Lightning Storm yet I was often frustrated by being unable to heal with Reno.
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On November 16 2016 16:10 WindWolf wrote:http://imgur.com/a/JO8WKPotion of Polymorph (Rare Mage Secret) After your opponent plays a minion, transform it into a 1/1 Sheep This is a really good secret. I believe that it can be much better than Mirror Entity in some cases
Yeah it's not bad. It stops things like Thaurissan and Ragnaros (either) from triggering, avoids tricky situations from Sylvanas, and a few other nice things that Mirror Entity doesn't do.
So when the Priest or Warlock plays Kabal Chemist, then plays a Mage Secret, it's probably this!
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On November 16 2016 17:27 Melliflue wrote:Show nested quote +On November 16 2016 17:05 dAPhREAk wrote:On November 16 2016 16:40 Melliflue wrote:On November 16 2016 06:31 dAPhREAk wrote:
i was thinking inkmaster would be good in a freeze mage deck. pyroblast + frostbolt + ice lance for 17 damage for the win after an alexstraza. or a 5/5 on board plus a big spell (e.g., flamestrike) for board clear. Would you give up the second Frost Nova, Doomsayer, Blizzard, Frostbolt, Ice Lance, Fireball, etc. for the Inkmaster? If you were already considering a deck with no duplicates then I can see the appeal but is she worth that massive drawback on her own? Reno worked because his effect was HUGE. The no duplicates restriction even hurts Solia because you are less likely to have her and Flamestrike (or Firelands Portal or Pyroblast) in hand. my freezereno deck runs two novas, two doomsayers, one blizzard, two frosts, two ice lance and one fireball; also twoof each of the secrets. i think the same can be done for this. not sure if its worth it, but may be good, got to test it. How often do you get to play Reno with his battlecry? I once tried a Reno-based control shaman and the only duplicates were Hex and Lightning Storm yet I was often frustrated by being unable to heal with Reno.
The difference is that Mage is much better at delaying with freeze effects, defensive secrets, and clears, and also better at drawing cards. Freeze Mage will want to hold off on Reno until the last possible moment anyway, so it's often manageable.
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On November 16 2016 03:50 Kenpark wrote:
Can bring back(?) Rafaam maybe. I mean this is strong no questions. Will Reno mage be tier 1 ? Probably not, but its still playable even now(kinda).
With Firelands Portal or Flamestrike this is like a 0 mana Thing from below, really flexible too.
KAZAKUS
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On November 16 2016 20:31 Dromar wrote:Show nested quote +On November 16 2016 16:10 WindWolf wrote:http://imgur.com/a/JO8WKPotion of Polymorph (Rare Mage Secret) After your opponent plays a minion, transform it into a 1/1 Sheep This is a really good secret. I believe that it can be much better than Mirror Entity in some cases Yeah it's not bad. It stops things like Thaurissan and Ragnaros (either) from triggering, avoids tricky situations from Sylvanas, and a few other nice things that Mirror Entity doesn't do. So when the Priest or Warlock plays Kabal Chemist, then plays a Mage Secret, it's probably this!
Really wish this card was 'When' instead of 'After'. Still pretty good though.
Also, new Murloc!
![[image loading]](http://media-hearth.cursecdn.com/avatars/307/797/636148719181906579.png)
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woah didnt see that one coming. actually a nice tempo boost for my MurLock...
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It could be good if it wasn't a warlock card
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On November 17 2016 00:41 Hellonslaught wrote:
It could be good if it wasn't a warlock card
I don't expect them to give any "pay health for value" cards to classes other than Warlock. That's the way it's gotta be.
Warlock is pretty good with tempo/board control though. I think it still could be a good card.
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Apparently the Warlock Murloc is called Seadevil Stinger.
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On November 16 2016 23:40 Hearken wrote:Show nested quote +On November 16 2016 20:31 Dromar wrote:On November 16 2016 16:10 WindWolf wrote:http://imgur.com/a/JO8WKPotion of Polymorph (Rare Mage Secret) After your opponent plays a minion, transform it into a 1/1 Sheep This is a really good secret. I believe that it can be much better than Mirror Entity in some cases Yeah it's not bad. It stops things like Thaurissan and Ragnaros (either) from triggering, avoids tricky situations from Sylvanas, and a few other nice things that Mirror Entity doesn't do. So when the Priest or Warlock plays Kabal Chemist, then plays a Mage Secret, it's probably this! Really wish this card was 'When' instead of 'After'. Still pretty good though.
After seems way clearer as to what parts of the entering play sequence occur before the transformation takes plays. By the way do think 'on summons' like Knife Juggler/Councilman will trigger twice?
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On November 16 2016 17:27 Melliflue wrote:Show nested quote +On November 16 2016 17:05 dAPhREAk wrote:On November 16 2016 16:40 Melliflue wrote:On November 16 2016 06:31 dAPhREAk wrote:
i was thinking inkmaster would be good in a freeze mage deck. pyroblast + frostbolt + ice lance for 17 damage for the win after an alexstraza. or a 5/5 on board plus a big spell (e.g., flamestrike) for board clear. Would you give up the second Frost Nova, Doomsayer, Blizzard, Frostbolt, Ice Lance, Fireball, etc. for the Inkmaster? If you were already considering a deck with no duplicates then I can see the appeal but is she worth that massive drawback on her own? Reno worked because his effect was HUGE. The no duplicates restriction even hurts Solia because you are less likely to have her and Flamestrike (or Firelands Portal or Pyroblast) in hand. my freezereno deck runs two novas, two doomsayers, one blizzard, two frosts, two ice lance and one fireball; also twoof each of the secrets. i think the same can be done for this. not sure if its worth it, but may be good, got to test it. How often do you get to play Reno with his battlecry? I once tried a Reno-based control shaman and the only duplicates were Hex and Lightning Storm yet I was often frustrated by being unable to heal with Reno.
i still play wild so with the 2-2 pull a secret dudes, its more common to get the reno off. however, it all depends on draw. as someone else said above, mage is good about delaying and if you have reno and can get through about half your deck, it usually allows you to use him. i have had him sit in my hand often without the ability to play him though (even to the last two cards). its fun to drop him on a board with 1 life, and his battlecry doesnt go off then concede. ;-)
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On November 17 2016 02:29 Enjun wrote:Show nested quote +On November 16 2016 23:40 Hearken wrote:On November 16 2016 20:31 Dromar wrote:On November 16 2016 16:10 WindWolf wrote:http://imgur.com/a/JO8WKPotion of Polymorph (Rare Mage Secret) After your opponent plays a minion, transform it into a 1/1 Sheep This is a really good secret. I believe that it can be much better than Mirror Entity in some cases Yeah it's not bad. It stops things like Thaurissan and Ragnaros (either) from triggering, avoids tricky situations from Sylvanas, and a few other nice things that Mirror Entity doesn't do. So when the Priest or Warlock plays Kabal Chemist, then plays a Mage Secret, it's probably this! Really wish this card was 'When' instead of 'After'. Still pretty good though. After seems way clearer as to what parts of the entering play sequence occur before the transformation takes plays. By the way do think 'on summons' like Knife Juggler/Councilman will trigger twice?
I assume not, since to me it should follow the same sequence is casting the spell: play minion -> polymorph into sheep. Not play minion -> remove minion -> play sheep.
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On November 17 2016 03:18 dAPhREAk wrote:Show nested quote +On November 16 2016 17:27 Melliflue wrote:On November 16 2016 17:05 dAPhREAk wrote:On November 16 2016 16:40 Melliflue wrote:On November 16 2016 06:31 dAPhREAk wrote:
i was thinking inkmaster would be good in a freeze mage deck. pyroblast + frostbolt + ice lance for 17 damage for the win after an alexstraza. or a 5/5 on board plus a big spell (e.g., flamestrike) for board clear. Would you give up the second Frost Nova, Doomsayer, Blizzard, Frostbolt, Ice Lance, Fireball, etc. for the Inkmaster? If you were already considering a deck with no duplicates then I can see the appeal but is she worth that massive drawback on her own? Reno worked because his effect was HUGE. The no duplicates restriction even hurts Solia because you are less likely to have her and Flamestrike (or Firelands Portal or Pyroblast) in hand. my freezereno deck runs two novas, two doomsayers, one blizzard, two frosts, two ice lance and one fireball; also twoof each of the secrets. i think the same can be done for this. not sure if its worth it, but may be good, got to test it. How often do you get to play Reno with his battlecry? I once tried a Reno-based control shaman and the only duplicates were Hex and Lightning Storm yet I was often frustrated by being unable to heal with Reno. i still play wild so with the 2-2 pull a secret dudes, its more common to get the reno off. however, it all depends on draw. as someone else said above, mage is good about delaying and if you have reno and can get through about half your deck, it usually allows you to use him. i have had him sit in my hand often without the ability to play him though (even to the last two cards). its fun to drop him on a board with 1 life, and his battlecry doesnt go off then concede. ;-)
Even if you get through half your deck I thought the odds on having Reno and his battlecry would be small. You need to have drawn Reno and (at least) one copy of every pair. My intuition is probably wrong about how unlikely that is 
But going back to Inkmaster Solia; I think it is not a brilliant card, at least she doesn't seem worth the 'no duplicates' condition. There are two ways I can think of her. As a giver of a 'free' spell, or a cheap 5/5.
+ Show Spoiler [Free spell] +The spell is free but nobody would play a vanilla 5/5 (I never see Pit Fighter) so you are paying 2-3 mana for that free spell. If your spell is <=3 mana then it is bad. (Solia + Frostbolt is a bad Fire Elemental, Solia + Arcane Intellect is a 2-card version of the old Ancient of Lore.) Even with Cabalist's Tome she isn't great (7-mana and 2 cards for a 5/5 and 3 random spells).
I think you really do need to play her with Flamestrike or Firelands Portal or Pyroblast to get value from her. I don't know how often you would have Solia and one of those cards in hand also with a good reason to play the spell (no point playing Flamestrike if they have no minions.)
So she doesn't really give much value unless you are aiming for the late-game anyway. Maybe there will be some form of control mage that isn't freeze mage where she is useful. Even in freeze mage, Solia + Pyroblast is still worse than Fireball + Roaring Torch, and the latter also benefits more from Thaurissan and Thalnos. And a 5/5 body when used with Flamestrike/Blizzard might not be that good because you're not playing other minions to use up their removal.
+ Show Spoiler [Cheap 5/5] +If you want to play a cheap vanilla 5/5 then you are looking for a tempo advantage so I assume you will want to put her in a tempo deck, but a tempo deck values consistency more than a cheap 5/5 on turn seven or later.
So while she may end up being amazing in a certain deck or specific situations I am not excited enough to craft her. If I opened her in a pack though, I would definitely give her a chance.
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in b4 N'Zoth mass destruction.
![[image loading]](http://media-hearth.cursecdn.com/avatars/307/839/636149141482384162.png)
"Yo lets make teh Leper deck, 8 dmg to teh face guaranteed !!!1"
+ Show Spoiler +this is hardly playable at 2 mana...
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I think the idea here is they want aggro to be bad. Which I don't disagree with...
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http://imgur.com/a/QkdTK
This card is a counter to Sylvanas (if you have no board otherwise). Kills her and deals some damage to the enemy face. N'zoth decks might even have to be more cautious about playing Sylvanas
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On November 17 2016 05:04 Melliflue wrote:Show nested quote +On November 17 2016 03:18 dAPhREAk wrote:On November 16 2016 17:27 Melliflue wrote:On November 16 2016 17:05 dAPhREAk wrote:On November 16 2016 16:40 Melliflue wrote:On November 16 2016 06:31 dAPhREAk wrote:
i was thinking inkmaster would be good in a freeze mage deck. pyroblast + frostbolt + ice lance for 17 damage for the win after an alexstraza. or a 5/5 on board plus a big spell (e.g., flamestrike) for board clear. Would you give up the second Frost Nova, Doomsayer, Blizzard, Frostbolt, Ice Lance, Fireball, etc. for the Inkmaster? If you were already considering a deck with no duplicates then I can see the appeal but is she worth that massive drawback on her own? Reno worked because his effect was HUGE. The no duplicates restriction even hurts Solia because you are less likely to have her and Flamestrike (or Firelands Portal or Pyroblast) in hand. my freezereno deck runs two novas, two doomsayers, one blizzard, two frosts, two ice lance and one fireball; also twoof each of the secrets. i think the same can be done for this. not sure if its worth it, but may be good, got to test it. How often do you get to play Reno with his battlecry? I once tried a Reno-based control shaman and the only duplicates were Hex and Lightning Storm yet I was often frustrated by being unable to heal with Reno. i still play wild so with the 2-2 pull a secret dudes, its more common to get the reno off. however, it all depends on draw. as someone else said above, mage is good about delaying and if you have reno and can get through about half your deck, it usually allows you to use him. i have had him sit in my hand often without the ability to play him though (even to the last two cards). its fun to drop him on a board with 1 life, and his battlecry doesnt go off then concede. ;-) Even if you get through half your deck I thought the odds on having Reno and his battlecry would be small. You need to have drawn Reno and (at least) one copy of every pair. My intuition is probably wrong about how unlikely that is But going back to Inkmaster Solia; I think it is not a brilliant card, at least she doesn't seem worth the 'no duplicates' condition. There are two ways I can think of her. As a giver of a 'free' spell, or a cheap 5/5. + Show Spoiler [Free spell] +The spell is free but nobody would play a vanilla 5/5 (I never see Pit Fighter) so you are paying 2-3 mana for that free spell. If your spell is <=3 mana then it is bad. (Solia + Frostbolt is a bad Fire Elemental, Solia + Arcane Intellect is a 2-card version of the old Ancient of Lore.) Even with Cabalist's Tome she isn't great (7-mana and 2 cards for a 5/5 and 3 random spells).
I think you really do need to play her with Flamestrike or Firelands Portal or Pyroblast to get value from her. I don't know how often you would have Solia and one of those cards in hand also with a good reason to play the spell (no point playing Flamestrike if they have no minions.)
So she doesn't really give much value unless you are aiming for the late-game anyway. Maybe there will be some form of control mage that isn't freeze mage where she is useful. Even in freeze mage, Solia + Pyroblast is still worse than Fireball + Roaring Torch, and the latter also benefits more from Thaurissan and Thalnos. And a 5/5 body when used with Flamestrike/Blizzard might not be that good because you're not playing other minions to use up their removal. If you want to play a cheap vanilla 5/5 then you are looking for a tempo advantage so I assume you will want to put her in a tempo deck, but a tempo deck values consistency more than a cheap 5/5 on turn seven or later. So while she may end up being amazing in a certain deck or specific situations I am not excited enough to craft her. If I opened her in a pack though, I would definitely give her a chance.
Solia, along with Kazakus and the other Kabal cards will be great additions to current Reno Mage lists. I guess the real question is what's coming next year to replace Reno? If nothing, Solia may be unplayable in the next rotation.
Her upsides in the immediate future seem to be clearly based around the Kazakus 10 mana spell. However, she's also handy to keep board control. We all know how weak AoEs are, and playing a Flamestrike to clear Shaman bullshit only to have them refill the board immediately is pretty annoying. She can at least help you to stabilise in these spots.
I'm mostly just biased towards any cards that are control-centric though to be honest.
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On November 17 2016 17:24 WindWolf wrote:http://imgur.com/a/QkdTKThis card is a counter to Sylvanas (if you have no board otherwise). Kills her and deals some damage to the enemy face. N'zoth decks might even have to be more cautious about playing Sylvanas
Dat sweet, sweet Firelands Portal nerf!!!!!
Honestly think Bomb Squad might be my favourite card of the set so far!
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Also, new Warlock spell:
![[image loading]](http://media-hearth.cursecdn.com/avatars/307/867/636149315439525912.png)
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Worst potion, seems this is the part where they unload all the embarassingly bad cards before they finish on some heavy hitters.
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EPT
