The back-alleys of Azeroth’s biggest trade city are bustling with smugglers, assassins, and outcast magic users—and they’re about to become your closest allies in Mean Streets of Gadgetzan™, the fourth expansion for Blizzard Entertainment’s Hearthstone® digital card game. Opportunity awaits in the dark corners of Gadgetzan, and those with the spunk and street smarts to befriend the local crime families can earn a lavish cache of contraband in the form of 132 new cards.
Mean Streets of Gadgetzan thrusts players into a lawless land where criminals from all over Azeroth have found a haven, free of scrutiny from the Horde and the Alliance. The fight for Gadgetzan dominance brought many petty perpetrators to town, but there are three crime families that truly rule the streets: the weapon-smuggling Grimy Goons, the assassins of the Jade Lotus, and the mana-hungry Kabal. Each family offers unique benefits to its own select set of three Hearthstone classes, allowing them to utilize special tricks of the trade unavailable to rival families, so players will want to choose their allies wisely when building decks!
Coming to PC; Windows, iOS, and Android™ tablets; and mobile phones, Mean Streets of Gadgetzan card packs will be winnable in Hearthstone’s Arena mode, and purchasable with in-game gold or real money at the same prices as Hearthstone’s other card packs. Starting today, and up until the expansion is released later this year, those eager to hit the streets running can pre-purchase Mean Streets of Gadgetzan card packs in a special 50-pack bundle, online only at http://www.battle.net/shop for a one-time price of $49.99 (one purchase per account).
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Why does the new card Kooky Chemist have the face of posessed Walter White combined with the torso of a hot girl? Makes no sense. And the card seems completely redundant anyway. Almost as if it only existed for the aforementioned combination.
Getaway Kodo. Half a Duplicate for 1 mana for paladins. Can be useful, especially with Tirion
Grimestreet Informant (Warrior, Hunter, and Paladin). If I understand reddit threads correctly, you are guaranteed to be offered one card from each class. If that is the case, then this can be useful.
I know a Guy. Nice with more discover. Also gives warriors slower something useful at turn 1
Kabal Courier (Mage, Priest, and Warlock). If I understand reddit threads correctly, you are guaranteed to be offered one card from each class. If that is the case, then the discover effect can be useful.
Kazakus (Mage, Priest, and Warlock). First it is nice with another Reno-type card. Blizzard released a video showing how a custom spell works. While it is certainly cool, I would say that it ultimately depends on how the custom effects scales across the different mana costs. You can absolutely make good 10-mana spells however
Lotus Agents (Rogue, Druid, and Shaman). If I understand reddit threads correctly, you are guaranteed to be offered one card from each class. If that is the case, then the discover effect can be useful. Will trade with most other 5 drops
Lotus Assassin. If played on curve it can be really good. Loses value later on
Lunar Visions. Not bad but I don't know which kind of deck would run it
Mainic Soulcaster. I don't know what's up with the art. Anyhow, the cards looks ok. Not super-good but not garbage
Mark of the Lotus looks like a nice addition for token-based decks in constructed. Not garbage in arena either.
Meanstreet Marshal. This card is a bit weird. If you are already running buffs, don't you have better targets than this
Mistress of Mixtures. If played on curve, useful anti-aggro minion. Loses value in the late game
Patches the Pirate. Nice idea, but you need Gang-up for this to be very useful
Pilfered Power. Blizzard really wants druid to ramp hard don't they?
Pint-Size Potion. Might be useful, has synergy with Shadow Word: Horror and Cabal Shadow Priest
Piranha Launcher. I'm going to play this card just because it is a piranha launcher. Not the best weapon, but on-demand beasts can be very useful.
Potion of Madness. This card might actually be more useful than Shadow Madness
Every Priest card spoiled so far seems incredibly powerful.
Pint-Size Potion + Shadow Word: Horror is a board clear of anything with 5 or less attack, which is almost everything. Honestly SW:Horror is a bit underrated in general, but now with this it will see play.
The 5 mana 5/6 dragon with half Thoughtsteal is also a pretty solid drop, and the Dragonfire Potion is incredibly strong as a pseudo-Lightbomb level card.
Meanwhile the Fel Orc Soulfiend can bring more consistency to Resurrect Priest, though I'm not sure it'll be enough, and with the dragons, Priest may have better options anyway.
I don't really expect Priest to be fitting all of these goodies in their decks though, so we'll see what they end up doing.
On November 05 2016 16:46 d00p wrote: Why does the new card Kooky Chemist have the face of posessed Walter White combined with the torso of a hot girl? Makes no sense. And the card seems completely redundant anyway. Almost as if it only existed for the aforementioned combination.
Yeah I noticed that torso too. Looks really weird.
On November 05 2016 19:57 WindWolf wrote: [*] Lotus Agents (Rogue, Druid, and Shaman). If I understand reddit threads correctly, you are guaranteed to be offered one card from each class. If that is the case, then the discover effect can be useful. Will trade with most other 5 drops
My first thought was that it's a slightly weaker Ethereal Conjurer. It'll be interesting to see how good it turns out.
[*] Mainic Soulcaster. I don't know what's up with the art. Anyhow, the cards looks ok. Not super-good but not garbage
I think this is supposed to be some never-fatigue shenanigans?
[*] Meanstreet Marshal. This card is a bit weird. If you are already running buffs, don't you have better targets than this
Something about this card really makes me think it should be in the common slot, and Blizzard's choice of what cards are epics kind of annoys me. I could really see a card like this existing in Magic: the Gathering, but I really feel it would be a common. It's a 1 mana 1/2 that will often have no effect.
[*] Mistress of Mixtures. If played on curve, useful anti-aggro minion. Loses value in the late game
That's interesting, I had pretty much the opposite impression. Obviously it's better than nothing on turn 1, so it helps there, but unlike Zombie Chow, this minion
1) Is easily killed by Mana Wyrm and Tunnel Trogg. 2) Dies to any 2/1 (though there aren't so many of those anymore now that Abusive Sergeant got nerfed). 3) Is still good to play later.
1 and 2 make it worse at early game defense, but 3 makes it much better later in the game. If you are playing defense at any stage in the game, it's a 1 mana 2/2 with deathrattle: gain 4 life, which is actually quite strong.
[*] Patches the Pirate. Nice idea, but you need Gang-up for this to be very useful
I'm not so sure of that. If Pirates become viable, this guy will definitely be in the deck, and will be a significant part of why Pirate decks are good. I'm assuming some sort of aggro Pirate deck with somewhat reliable 1 drops (like N'Zoth's First Mate or the 2/1 that buffs weapons for Rogue). A free 1/1 charge out of your deck on turn 1, in an already aggressive deck, can quite possibly put in 4 or 5 points of damage value throughout the game. Imagine the opponent going first and dropping the 2/1 pirate, then getting Patches and hitting for 1. If you have nothing for your first turn, you are well on your way to getting run over.
[*] Pint-Size Potion. Might be useful, has synergy with Shadow Word: Horror and Cabal Shadow Priest
Hadn't even thought about it with Cabal Shadow Priest, but yeah. It seems like Priest will have to choose between going Dragons or going a standard control with all these spells they are getting. I think it's much more likely to be used with Shadow Word: Horror, unless the opponent has one big value target like Ysera or Sylvanas.
Honestly it seems to me like they are setting up replacements for many powerful Priest cards that are going to be rotating out, like Entomb and some of the Dragon cards.
[*] Small-Time Recruits. I don't understand what kind of Paladin deck would like this card.
Yeah, I'm pretty sure the decks that might want this are already pretty happy with Divine Favor.
I'm really undecided whether this is a card every Paladin will want to play, or if the life gain will often be wasted, which makes it kinda meh. I did have to stare for a while to try to figure out how the guy in the picture is a divine shield taunt minion. It doesn't look right to me.
Is it me or is Kabal Talonpriest insanely strong? This is gonna be one of those 'if opponent played it on curve you already lost' cards like the old Tuskar Totemic and Shielded Minibot.
Manic Soulcaster seems very strong for tempo mages. Who doesn't want another Flamewaker?
Mistress of Mixtures will be a staple card I think 1mana 2/2 is nothing to be sniffed at
I know that it is still early (the day after the announcement) but no Warlock and Shaman cards have been revealed so far (ignoring tri-class cards). I wonder if there is a reason for that or pure coincident
As someone who played alot of Shaman when it was in dumpster tier (mostly using a mechrattle deck), it is sad that people dislike shaman so much these days. I can't say I blame them though
On November 05 2016 21:37 Dromar wrote:
I think this is supposed to be some never-fatigue shenanigans?
Even if you are running it in a Reno or fatigue control deck, it feels like a win-more card for me in most cases.
1) Is easily killed by Mana Wyrm and Tunnel Trogg. 2) Dies to any 2/1 (though there aren't so many of those anymore now that Abusive Sergeant got nerfed). 3) Is still good to play later.
1 and 2 make it worse at early game defense, but 3 makes it much better later in the game. If you are playing defense at any stage in the game, it's a 1 mana 2/2 with deathrattle: gain 4 life, which is actually quite strong.
Yeah, I totally forgot about that. It might actually be better than I initially thought
[*] Patches the Pirate. Nice idea, but you need Gang-up for this to be very useful
I'm not so sure of that. If Pirates become viable, this guy will definitely be in the deck, and will be a significant part of why Pirate decks are good. I'm assuming some sort of aggro Pirate deck with somewhat reliable 1 drops (like N'Zoth's First Mate or the 2/1 that buffs weapons for Rogue). A free 1/1 charge out of your deck on turn 1, in an already aggressive deck, can quite possibly put in 4 or 5 points of damage value throughout the game. Imagine the opponent going first and dropping the 2/1 pirate, then getting Patches and hitting for 1. If you have nothing for your first turn, you are well on your way to getting run over.
It may be strong, but I don't think it will push pirate decks into "OMG NERF NOW"-tier. But I may be wrong
On November 06 2016 00:32 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote: Thanks for the links Windwolf
Nostalgia37 on reddit does a good job keeping the reveal charts up-to-date
On November 06 2016 02:49 WindWolf wrote: I know that it is still early (the day after the announcement) but no Warlock and Shaman cards have been revealed so far (ignoring tri-class cards). I wonder if there is a reason for that or pure coincident
As someone who played alot of Shaman when it was in dumpster tier (mostly using a mechrattle deck), it is sad that people dislike shaman so much these days. I can't say I blame them though
I think people just dislike that it's very difficult to contest the board, and as a result they win easily sometimes. Which is really a problem with Hearthstone as a whole. Also Tunnel Trogg has maybe made it clear that 1 mana 1/3 minions with attack buffs just shouldn't exist.
[*] Patches the Pirate. Nice idea, but you need Gang-up for this to be very useful
I'm not so sure of that. If Pirates become viable, this guy will definitely be in the deck, and will be a significant part of why Pirate decks are good. I'm assuming some sort of aggro Pirate deck with somewhat reliable 1 drops (like N'Zoth's First Mate or the 2/1 that buffs weapons for Rogue). A free 1/1 charge out of your deck on turn 1, in an already aggressive deck, can quite possibly put in 4 or 5 points of damage value throughout the game. Imagine the opponent going first and dropping the 2/1 pirate, then getting Patches and hitting for 1. If you have nothing for your first turn, you are well on your way to getting run over.
It may be strong, but I don't think it will push pirate decks into "OMG NERF NOW"-tier. But I may be wrong[/quote]
Oh I don't expect that either. I just think it'll be an annoyance, especially early after the set comes out.
On November 06 2016 02:49 WindWolf wrote: I know that it is still early (the day after the announcement) but no Warlock and Shaman cards have been revealed so far (ignoring tri-class cards). I wonder if there is a reason for that or pure coincident
As someone who played alot of Shaman when it was in dumpster tier (mostly using a mechrattle deck), it is sad that people dislike shaman so much these days. I can't say I blame them though
I think people just dislike that it's very difficult to contest the board, and as a result they win easily sometimes. Which is really a problem with Hearthstone as a whole. Also Tunnel Trogg has maybe made it clear that 1 mana 1/3 minions with attack buffs just shouldn't exist.
[*] Patches the Pirate. Nice idea, but you need Gang-up for this to be very useful
I'm not so sure of that. If Pirates become viable, this guy will definitely be in the deck, and will be a significant part of why Pirate decks are good. I'm assuming some sort of aggro Pirate deck with somewhat reliable 1 drops (like N'Zoth's First Mate or the 2/1 that buffs weapons for Rogue). A free 1/1 charge out of your deck on turn 1, in an already aggressive deck, can quite possibly put in 4 or 5 points of damage value throughout the game. Imagine the opponent going first and dropping the 2/1 pirate, then getting Patches and hitting for 1. If you have nothing for your first turn, you are well on your way to getting run over.
It may be strong, but I don't think it will push pirate decks into "OMG NERF NOW"-tier. But I may be wrong
Oh I don't expect that either. I just think it'll be an annoyance, especially early after the set comes out.[/QUOTE]
I definitely agree that it is the 'shaman things' like playing 0 mana 5/5s and 4 mana 7/7s that people dislike, rather than the class as a whole. With the board clears being very few in the current rotation (RIP Lightbomb) decks that can constantly refill board with threatening minions are definitely a problem. And in addition to that the inability to interact with your opponents spells makes reactive decks really hard to play. I hope and think that control decks are seeing more love now, as really outside control warrior decks that aim to win the game by 'not losing' are really not viable.
As an avid control deck enthusiast I really look forward into these new cards, my only worry being that 2 card clears are still really expensive in terms of deckbuilding.
I'm liking the new cards a lot. The randomness is really low, especially compared to Whispers and Karazhan, and thank goodness. The focus on these cards is much more about how you build your deck, and how you decide to play the individual cards. Whereas Karazhan has a bunch of random-as-fuck cards like Barnes, Medivh and the Portals, and Whispers has a bunch of cards that you just plop down whenever, this set looks so much more interesting to me, I might finally put in some serious playtime since the arrival of Standard. These cards just look so much cooler and more interesting.
I really like the triclass concept too. It does make the tri-discover a little less consistent I think, but it also make balance easier. IE - if Lock / Rogue couldn't take Leeroy would it have needed to be nerfed?
Anyways it looks very cool that their trying new design ideas out and hopefully it works out.
On November 05 2016 05:41 The_Templar wrote: Some of the new cards look pretty amazing. The custom spell one could be really cool, but I don't know all the options yet... so...
After the fiasco with joust and inspire (save for a few cards), I can understand why Blizzard is a bit more cautions with new mechanics and doesn't go all-in in them. That being said, only three cards per faction is a bit sad
After the fiasco with joust and inspire (save for a few cards), I can understand why Blizzard is a bit more cautions with new mechanics and doesn't go all-in in them. That being said, only three cards per faction is a bit sad
There's nothing sad about it. They're using Discover as the mechanic that brings all three classes together, which fits nicely with how Discover already works, but the thing with Discover is that they actually don't need to make that many cards that do it, for them to cover all the bases and have the impact they need to have. All 9 cards probably won't have Discover, but the ones we've seen so far do, and it's a very strong effect that you don't actually need to have on a ton of different cards. It's a cool mechanic, and it's sure to make a splash, even if there's only 9 of them. Even using a bit of math, since each card is playable by 3 classes, it's essentially 27 cards, since each class will have different reasons to use each card.
On November 07 2016 06:40 NKB wrote: I am really looking forward to this set, I am kind of curious what the other multi class cards are and what effects they are going to have.
There are only 9 (3 per faction), so not a lot... hopefully the unrevealed ones are much cooler than discover a class card.
I really dislike the thief-rogue which it appears that they are trying to push. It's simply too random what you get. When it works, it's brilliant, when you get random shit tier cards - not so much. The variance is simply too high to enjoy for me.
On November 07 2016 06:40 NKB wrote: I am really looking forward to this set, I am kind of curious what the other multi class cards are and what effects they are going to have.
There are only 9 (3 per faction), so not a lot... hopefully the unrevealed ones are much cooler than discover a class card.
If they are just more discover cards then that would be very disappointing, having the faction cards opens up quite a few possibilities for some exciting decks, but of course it depends on the text the cards have at the end of the day.
After the fiasco with joust and inspire (save for a few cards), I can understand why Blizzard is a bit more cautions with new mechanics and doesn't go all-in in them. That being said, only three cards per faction is a bit sad
There's nothing sad about it. They're using Discover as the mechanic that brings all three classes together, which fits nicely with how Discover already works, but the thing with Discover is that they actually don't need to make that many cards that do it, for them to cover all the bases and have the impact they need to have. All 9 cards probably won't have Discover, but the ones we've seen so far do, and it's a very strong effect that you don't actually need to have on a ton of different cards. It's a cool mechanic, and it's sure to make a splash, even if there's only 9 of them. Even using a bit of math, since each card is playable by 3 classes, it's essentially 27 cards, since each class will have different reasons to use each card.
This is a good point. If they made too many triclass discover cards then it just ends up, you take the one that's best and ignor the rest. So why bother printing so many alternatives huh?
On November 07 2016 06:40 NKB wrote: I am really looking forward to this set, I am kind of curious what the other multi class cards are and what effects they are going to have.
There are only 9 (3 per faction), so not a lot... hopefully the unrevealed ones are much cooler than discover a class card.
If they are just more discover cards then that would be very disappointing, having the faction cards opens up quite a few possibilities for some exciting decks, but of course it depends on the text the cards have at the end of the day.
Kazakas is very strong, and I fully expect the other two tri-class legendaries to be as well. It results in a theme similar to what the old gods created, with a powerful neutral you could somewhat build around (with different classes having their own flavor) to give lots of options for decks to build.
After the fiasco with joust and inspire (save for a few cards), I can understand why Blizzard is a bit more cautions with new mechanics and doesn't go all-in in them. That being said, only three cards per faction is a bit sad
There's nothing sad about it. They're using Discover as the mechanic that brings all three classes together, which fits nicely with how Discover already works, but the thing with Discover is that they actually don't need to make that many cards that do it, for them to cover all the bases and have the impact they need to have. All 9 cards probably won't have Discover, but the ones we've seen so far do, and it's a very strong effect that you don't actually need to have on a ton of different cards. It's a cool mechanic, and it's sure to make a splash, even if there's only 9 of them. Even using a bit of math, since each card is playable by 3 classes, it's essentially 27 cards, since each class will have different reasons to use each card.
I don't know. Using similar math, it's essentially only 3 cards, since each tri-class card is only 1/3 of a neutral card. I don't think that's the right way to look at it.
What I kind of dislike about the tri-class cards is just that - they are practically neutral cards. From the ones they've shown, there's nothing that makes me think they couldn't just be neutrals honestly. Maybe the remaining tri-class cards will be more unique, where we could say "yeah, they couldn't give that card to class X, because card Y would break it." Otherwise there is honestly not too much justification for the tri-class card concept in the first place. I mean, they're apparently willing to let classes discover cards of other classes, making it practically impossible to predict what the opponent might have discovered, why not make these cards available to any class?
For this set I was really hoping for some more complex and interesting card design, and largely haven't seen it yet. As I said above, the tri-class concept has not been legitimized to me yet, but of course we'll see what other cards they've got. My best explanation is that they really don't want to push out accessibility of the game to people who are playing on their phone, not really paying attention, or younger audiences like 10 year olds or something.
But I do agree that there shouldn't be too many discover effects. Imagine if the set had 30+ discover cards. People would be discovering way too much every game, and it would become cumbersome, like that pirate treasure brawl where you discover a card every turn.
On November 08 2016 03:10 Dromar wrote: I don't know. Using similar math, it's essentially only 3 cards, since each tri-class card is only 1/3 of a neutral card. I don't think that's the right way to look at it.
No, the logic I'm using holds. When you really get down to it, each neutral card is essentially 9 different cards, because each neutral card means something different to each of the 9 classes, where with my model a tri-class card is functionally like 3 different cards. The idea that a tri-class card is like 1/3 of a neutral card is mathematically consistent. The other factor at play is the fact that, since they're class cards, they can still be made to be more powerful than their neutral counterparts, since only 3 classes have to be considered when designing them.
Dragonfire Potion is so insane Priests will be all over the place. 1 mana shadow madness on 2 attack minions is also absurd
I think I am the only one so far that thinks Fel Orc Soulfiend is bad. Fel Orc is in Shadow Word Pain territory, Injured Blademaster is not. IBM deals his damage once. FOS does it every turn. Because of how common I think Priest will be after this expansion priest is going to want to play cards priests have issues with. IBM is still a problem for a priest to kill. 4 attack is just so good vs them.
On November 08 2016 13:02 Orcasgt24 wrote: Dragonfire Potion is so insane Priests will be all over the place. 1 mana shadow madness on 2 attack minions is also absurd
I think I am the only one so far that thinks Fel Orc Soulfiend is bad. Fel Orc is in Shadow Word Pain territory, Injured Blademaster is not. IBM deals his damage once. FOS does it every turn. Because of how common I think Priest will be after this expansion priest is going to want to play cards priests have issues with. IBM is still a problem for a priest to kill. 4 attack is just so good vs them.
You are not alone. I gave it a 3/10 on my rating list.
We have seen about 1/4 of all cards from this upcoming expansion, yet people are already making conclusions which class is gonna get abused.
Also have in mind that in about 5 months a good chunk of Dragons from Blackrock mountain are rotating out, so Dragon Priest more likely won't be a lasting deck.
On November 09 2016 08:16 Dromar wrote: Stolen Goods might be really strong with Alley Armorsmith. It would make it a 5 mana 5/10 taunt that gains a good chunk of armor.
It seems like they really ramped up the power level of the cards in this set, mostly on the defensive side.
That's what excites me most of all. All the strong cards lately have been very offensive, usually favoring midrange and aggro, but the last great defensive cards we got have been in Naxx and GvG. There haven't been any great control tools since Standard dropped, imo.
On November 10 2016 01:39 Kenpark wrote: Meh just pulled Fjola Lightbane out of the pack Thijs gave me, reseting my legendary algo right before the expansion.
But I'm glad the expansion hits soon and that the cards seem rather powerful after the disaster of the last adventure.
Love the low cost, combo cards priest is getting. Both new 1 mana cards look really strong. Dragon Potion is overrated imo.
Algorithm applies separately for each different set. Getting a legendary from the last pack you'll open of a set is the ideal scenario. In fact when a new set comes out I intentionally save some gold so that I can buy packs one-off until I get a legendary and then stop.
Man, I really think Dragonfire Potion is strong. It may be overrated though, because everyone's immediate thought is to be blown away by it. It's a cheaper, stronger Flamestrike. I've said in the past that board clears need to be cheaper and/or stronger to be competitive nowadays, and this is exactly what I was talking about. I guess we'll see. I would certainly say that it looks like Priest has a lot of strong control options coming to them though, so it's definitely possible that Dragonfire Potion doesn't even end up being the most popular method of board control.
On November 10 2016 01:39 Kenpark wrote: Meh just pulled Fjola Lightbane out of the pack Thijs gave me, reseting my legendary algo right before the expansion.
But I'm glad the expansion hits soon and that the cards seem rather powerful after the disaster of the last adventure.
Love the low cost, combo cards priest is getting. Both new 1 mana cards look really strong. Dragon Potion is overrated imo.
Algorithm applies separately for each different set. Getting a legendary from the last pack you'll open of a set is the ideal scenario. In fact when a new set comes out I intentionally save some gold so that I can buy packs one-off until I get a legendary and then stop.
Why do you stop after first legendary? Presumably you'll still buy packs from there later? And presumably you won't have all the new cards need yet?
What Priest really needs is Velen fodder... a useful replacement for Mind Blast that can attack Minions as well is long overdue ^^
some Spell to kill 4 and above attack to replace / update SW Death, so not longer have to Entomb a Azure Drake / Druid of the Claw, but that's probably asking for too much.
On November 10 2016 01:39 Kenpark wrote: Meh just pulled Fjola Lightbane out of the pack Thijs gave me, reseting my legendary algo right before the expansion.
But I'm glad the expansion hits soon and that the cards seem rather powerful after the disaster of the last adventure.
Love the low cost, combo cards priest is getting. Both new 1 mana cards look really strong. Dragon Potion is overrated imo.
Algorithm applies separately for each different set. Getting a legendary from the last pack you'll open of a set is the ideal scenario. In fact when a new set comes out I intentionally save some gold so that I can buy packs one-off until I get a legendary and then stop.
Why do you stop after first legendary? Presumably you'll still buy packs from there later? And presumably you won't have all the new cards need yet?
No, I buy many packs, but don't spend all my gold. That way after opening, say, 120 packs or whatever, I can then finish the pity timer buying one-off packs.
So with 15000 gold, I'll buy something like 120 packs, and save the last 3000 gold to finish the pity timer, then whatever I have left is just an initial bank toward the next set.
Is it just me or do Trogg Beastrager and Stolen Goods seem bad? Especially stolen goods, since it seems like a weaker version of Bolster. Trogg Beastrager seems playable, but, +1/+1 to a single minion seems not strong enough
On November 10 2016 13:09 stink123 wrote: Is it just me or do Trogg Beastrager and Stolen Goods seem bad? Especially stolen goods, since it seems like a weaker version of Bolster. Trogg Beastrager seems playable, but, +1/+1 to a single minion seems not strong enough
On November 10 2016 13:09 stink123 wrote: Is it just me or do Trogg Beastrager and Stolen Goods seem bad? Especially stolen goods, since it seems like a weaker version of Bolster. Trogg Beastrager seems playable, but, +1/+1 to a single minion seems not strong enough
Trogg Beastrager is 4/3 in stats for 2 mana that doesn't require you to have a board presence so I don't think it's bad at all.
Stolen Goods seems iffier, but maybe the lack of needing a board is the key there. Something like control warrior instead of playing Hero Power on 2 plays Stolen Goods then later follows with Bloodhoof Brave on 4?
On November 10 2016 13:09 stink123 wrote: Is it just me or do Trogg Beastrager and Stolen Goods seem bad? Especially stolen goods, since it seems like a weaker version of Bolster. Trogg Beastrager seems playable, but, +1/+1 to a single minion seems not strong enough
On November 10 2016 13:09 stink123 wrote: Is it just me or do Trogg Beastrager and Stolen Goods seem bad? Especially stolen goods, since it seems like a weaker version of Bolster. Trogg Beastrager seems playable, but, +1/+1 to a single minion seems not strong enough
Trogg Beastrager is 4/3 in stats for 2 mana that doesn't require you to have a board presence so I don't think it's bad at all.
Stolen Goods seems iffier, but maybe the lack of needing a board is the key there. Something like control warrior instead of playing Hero Power on 2 plays Stolen Goods then later follows with Bloodhoof Brave on 4?
It is not really 4/3 in stats. Maybe you buff your Highmane which cant be played till later and may not matter at all. Also 3-2 and not a beast. So yes it sucks.
On November 10 2016 13:09 stink123 wrote: Is it just me or do Trogg Beastrager and Stolen Goods seem bad? Especially stolen goods, since it seems like a weaker version of Bolster. Trogg Beastrager seems playable, but, +1/+1 to a single minion seems not strong enough
Stolen Goods seems like it might be okay to me. It's 3/3 worth of stats that come out delayed. I consider it like a more restrictive (and of course less random) Unstable Portal. You play the card on turn 2 and then have a strong tempo turn later.
Of course the restriction is that you need to have enough taunt minions in your deck to make it easy enough to play and not be a dead card. But Alley Armorsmith seems pretty strong, especially with Stolen Goods. A 2/7 taunt that gains you some armor for 5 isn't terrible. But the stats are perfect for Stolen Goods, which would make it a 5/10 taunt on turn 5. And every time it deals damage, you gain 5 armor. Very strong.
If there are any more reasonable taunts for Warrior to throw in, I would not be at all surprised to see Stolen Goods played regularly.
On November 10 2016 13:09 stink123 wrote: Is it just me or do Trogg Beastrager and Stolen Goods seem bad? Especially stolen goods, since it seems like a weaker version of Bolster. Trogg Beastrager seems playable, but, +1/+1 to a single minion seems not strong enough
Trogg Beastrager is 4/3 in stats for 2 mana that doesn't require you to have a board presence so I don't think it's bad at all.
Stolen Goods seems iffier, but maybe the lack of needing a board is the key there. Something like control warrior instead of playing Hero Power on 2 plays Stolen Goods then later follows with Bloodhoof Brave on 4?
It is not really 4/3 in stats. Maybe you buff your Highmane which cant be played till later and may not matter at all. Also 3-2 and not a beast. So yes it sucks.
Just because you play the buffed card later doesn't mean it's not 4/3 in stats. That's like claiming Harvest Golem isn't 4/4 in stats because it can be silenced.
It's pretty rng depending on what you draw even if you start with it in your opening hand and top-decking it is absolutely useless. But that rng can easily fall in your favor. Like Trogg Beastrager into Infested Wolf isn't unreasonably delayed gratification.
You're right that it's not a beast though, which is a pretty big deal. Also come to think of it, it doesn't work on Animal Companion either.
What are the current competitors for the 2 slot in Hunter anyways (I hardly play Hunter)?
On November 10 2016 13:09 stink123 wrote: Is it just me or do Trogg Beastrager and Stolen Goods seem bad? Especially stolen goods, since it seems like a weaker version of Bolster. Trogg Beastrager seems playable, but, +1/+1 to a single minion seems not strong enough
So it's pretty obvious there's a theme about buffing cards in hand going on. I really like it since it's a way to screw with hand reading. Instead of expecting 4/5 worth of stats on 4 mana, it could be more. Adds an interesting dynamic to trying to predict your opponent / play around his hand.
Buffing your hand is also much more reliable at the expense of tempo. I think that's going to make combo's better without it being burst combos like in the old Leeroy / Miracle days.
Although, I noticed this as well possible consequence as well:
On November 11 2016 03:27 Inzan1ty wrote: And somewhere between the lines I'am seeing the grand revival of aggro Pala, which Blizz seemingly unintentionally buffs..
On November 10 2016 13:09 stink123 wrote: Is it just me or do Trogg Beastrager and Stolen Goods seem bad? Especially stolen goods, since it seems like a weaker version of Bolster. Trogg Beastrager seems playable, but, +1/+1 to a single minion seems not strong enough
Trogg Beastrager is 4/3 in stats for 2 mana that doesn't require you to have a board presence so I don't think it's bad at all.
Stolen Goods seems iffier, but maybe the lack of needing a board is the key there. Something like control warrior instead of playing Hero Power on 2 plays Stolen Goods then later follows with Bloodhoof Brave on 4?
It is not really 4/3 in stats. Maybe you buff your Highmane which cant be played till later and may not matter at all. Also 3-2 and not a beast. So yes it sucks.
Just because you play the buffed card later doesn't mean it's not 4/3 in stats. That's like claiming Harvest Golem isn't 4/4 in stats because it can be silenced.
It's pretty rng depending on what you draw even if you start with it in your opening hand and top-decking it is absolutely useless. But that rng can easily fall in your favor. Like Trogg Beastrager into Infested Wolf isn't unreasonably delayed gratification.
You're right that it's not a beast though, which is a pretty big deal. Also come to think of it, it doesn't work on Animal Companion either.
What are the current competitors for the 2 slot in Hunter anyways (I hardly play Hunter)?
Kindly Grandmother is the only one, which is way superior. I think we have to think which cards benefit the most from the +1/+1 or similar buffs for cards in your hand. I mean for Highmane it almost doesnt matter at all for example if its 6-5 or 7-6. 1-7 into 2-8 on the other hand is a really big deal for example. Chargers also should benefit more. Argent Rider 3-2 DS, Charge is pretty nuts. Saying its a 4/3 is misleading though. The shaman one never saw play. The cheaper the better is also a point. You wanna play the buff cards asap obviously.
On November 11 2016 03:53 Hellonslaught wrote: Dirty rat looks so so bad... maybe it could fit in some Humility / MCT deck but still...
Yeah my initial impression is that it's super risky and not too good, especially since the effect is a battlecry instead of a deathrattle like Deathlord had. You give them the ammo to take the guy down.
One upside though is they miss out on the battlecry of their minion, which could be big. I mean, if they end up tossing out an Abusive Sergeant, the card is pretty damn good.
But who knows. Will there be a Paladin deck full of 1 mana minions? If so, this card could potentially combat it. I won't hold my breath though.
edit: Also gets rekt by many Priest spells, and I honestly expect Priest to be pretty relevant.
On November 11 2016 06:29 Inzan1ty wrote: huh? Is it called "Smugglers Run" or "Illegal Import" now?
Anyways we had that card already
Doppelgangster is basically a neutral Force of Nature (post nerf) although can be Brann'ed
Not just Brann'ed. It would triple the buff from anything that buffed it while it was still in the hand, and buffing minions in hand seems to be a theme for this expansion.
On November 11 2016 06:29 Inzan1ty wrote: huh? Is it called "Smugglers Run" or "Illegal Import" now?
I'm sure Illegal Import was the original translation. I think the card was first revealed in Russian?
Doppelgangster looks kind of like a build-your-own-Patron with the hand buffs. Buff it one or two times, and then slam it for a board full of minions for 5. Seems kind of strong actually. 3 2/2s is meh,but 3 3/3s is already pretty good. 3 4/4s or better is nuts.
On November 11 2016 10:55 killa_robot wrote: Blizzard seems to have such a massive hard on for paladin.
Grimy Goons week is more like it. The other 2 clans will get one just like it, then you'll see people complaining why other class's cards aren't being revealed. This week is for Hunter, Paladin and Warrior.
Dopplegangster looks really interesting. Now the buff cards make more sense and can be higher valued. These kind of synergies are way more interesting and fun to build decks around than pure value cards like Totem Golem. Cards look promising. Still hoping for some big influential Legendary like Yogg, Reno or Emp.
How do we value the triclass discover cards ? As a mage I prob dont wanna discover Priest or Warlock cards. From Warlock perspective it seems great since the class cards are usually weaker.
So far this seem's like a set that buffs Yogg-Saron. The only really dangerous spell from Yogg so far is Dragonfire Potion and maybe card draw, depending on how late it is. Otherwise safe cards to get from Yogg. Going to analyze Yogg and Golden Monkey later after all cards have been released.
Alley Armorsmith: Not a bad 5-drop. Has lots of health and allows you to gain some armor.
Auctionmaster Beardo: The issue with this card is that I have no idea what kind of deck will like it. It's not bad, but I don't know what kind of deck would like this, especially since it is such a late-game card if you want to get another activation
Backroom bouncer: A better-than-nothing 4-drop.
Blowgill Sniper: Might be useful in murloc decks.
Dirtey Rat: While it could be good vs. aggressive decks, it is still risky. Can throw combo decks of-guard though. Compared to Deathlord, this doesn't give you a chance to prepare removal for eventual big minions.
Dispatch Kodo: Decent already on it's own. Becomes more scary when combined with cards that buffs cards in your hand
Doppelganster: Useful in evolve-decks. This plus evolve equals three 6-drops for 6 mana.
Grimestreet Enforcer: Can be good if Zoo Paladin becomes a thing
Grimestreet Outfitter: An enabler for zoo Paladin decks.
Grimstreet Pawnbroker: Makes Gorehowl more scary. Unsure how good it is otherwise.
Grimestreet Protector: Expensive, but might be useful in paladin decks that heavily relies on controlling the board.
Grimestreet Smuggler: A better-than-nothing 3-drop.
Grimy Gadgeteer: Decent card, but a soft-taunt target
Shaku, the Collector: Maybe good if coined out or pick from discover effects, but not that great otherwise compared to Undercity Huckster. If you value stealth you have better alternatives imho.
Shaky Zipgunner: Not a bad card, might see some use in hunter decks.
Smuggler's Run(or whatever the name of the card actually is): Zoo Paladin here we come.
Stolen Goods: Blizzard REALLY REALLY wants us to play Taunt Warrior
Trogg Beastrager: If a beast hunter deck of some reason doesn't have enough beats already, this might be useful. I currently think that hunters would prefer King's Elekk
I think Dirty Rat is going to be much better than people think.
I understand the obvious comparison with Deathlord, but I don't get why people think it's worse. I always saw Deathlord as great vs. aggro and bad vs. control. Dirty Rat is more like 'not too bad most of the time' vs. aggro and AMAZING vs. control.
Deathlord doesn't let you 'prepare' at all. Your opponent kills it on THEIR turn, guaranteeing value out of any minion it pulls. If Deathlord pulls Antonidas, Rag, Ysera, Malygos etc. etc. it's wholly awful and you likely lose on the spot.
Using Dirty Rat in the same spot as above, you can 'prepare' ahead, pull any of those cards and remove it on YOUR turn before they get value out of it.
These days in the meta, you also have plenty of control cards that, if the battlecry is lost, your opponent doesn't really have a deck - Justicarr, Elise, Reno, C'Thun, N'Zoth, Yogg etc. etc.
I could be wrong, but the second I saw it, I got very excited about its potential. People should remember that vs. anything other than extremely aggressive decks, this is not a turn 2 play, it's more like a combo with removal card turn 5+.
Considering that 90% of the reason to play any Dragon deck ever is the ability to run Blackwing Corruptor, the Kodo just seems utterly insane. It has no prerequisites, it's a beast, it's a turn 3 beast!, can do 4+ damage in some circumstances.
Nuts, though I think Hunter did deserve a few better options in the mid-game. Relying on bullshit secret miracles into CotW or Highmane into CotW is no way to run a deck. Hopefully MSG means that midrange beast Hunter becomes a thing again.
Deathlord doesn't cause battlecries to trigger either. Plus if you play it on curve and your opponent gets for example Ragnaros you are not in a very good position. Deathlord can be played on curve without any problem.
On November 11 2016 18:53 WindWolf wrote: Deathlord doesn't cause battlecries to trigger either. Plus if you play it on curve and your opponent gets for example Ragnaros you are not in a very good position. Deathlord can be played on curve without any problem.
So you can feel safe giving your opponent a turn 3 Rag that's guaranteed to do 8 damage, but being able to pull the rag and remove it before it does damage isn't good?
Again, Deathlord doesn't allow you to prepare as it pulls their minion on THEIR turn.
I'm thinking of Dirty Rat in the way that Sylvanas is played in Ctrl Warrior or RenoLock - as a removal tool, not as a minion.
You would only play Deathlord or Dirty Rat on curve against very aggressive decks.
4 mana 2/3 weapon. After your hero attacks, give a random minion in your hand +1/+1.
I feel this is a card that is much better in arena than it is in constructed. Although if you combo it with Grimestreet Pawnbroker it becomes somewhat more useful.
On November 11 2016 18:40 Hearken wrote: Dispatch Kodo also seems seriously OP to me.
Considering that 90% of the reason to play any Dragon deck ever is the ability to run Blackwing Corruptor, the Kodo just seems utterly insane. It has no prerequisites, it's a beast, it's a turn 3 beast!, can do 4+ damage in some circumstances.
Nuts, though I think Hunter did deserve a few better options in the mid-game. Relying on bullshit secret miracles into CotW or Highmane into CotW is no way to run a deck. Hopefully MSG means that midrange beast Hunter becomes a thing again.
I gues that is the reason that it is a 4 mana beast. At 3 it would be really broken. Or did you mean that with the coin it can be played at turn 3.
On November 11 2016 18:40 Hearken wrote: Dispatch Kodo also seems seriously OP to me.
Considering that 90% of the reason to play any Dragon deck ever is the ability to run Blackwing Corruptor, the Kodo just seems utterly insane. It has no prerequisites, it's a beast, it's a turn 3 beast!, can do 4+ damage in some circumstances.
Nuts, though I think Hunter did deserve a few better options in the mid-game. Relying on bullshit secret miracles into CotW or Highmane into CotW is no way to run a deck. Hopefully MSG means that midrange beast Hunter becomes a thing again.
The logic in that final sentence is what gave us our current mid-range Shaman. You may want to improve beast Hunter but I don't think giving it over-powered cards is the right way. That has 3 possible consequences; 1) The deck is still weak. 2) The deck is very strong. 3) The deck is very dependent on draw. If it gets its over-powered cards then it is very good but is very weak when it doesn't.
Shaman being given Totem Golem, Tuskarr Totemic, and Thunder Bluff Valiant. Shaman was still weak so they gave it Flamewreathed Faceless and Thing from Below. Not one card is behind mid-range Shaman's power, more a collection of very good cards. I fear something similar happening with Hunter. It was given CotW (and Bear Trap) in WotOG, followed by Cloaked Huntress and Cat Trick in Karazhan.
(My biggest concern about MSG in general is that it seems to be encouraging such "lucky draw" decks.)
On November 11 2016 18:40 Hearken wrote: Dispatch Kodo also seems seriously OP to me.
Considering that 90% of the reason to play any Dragon deck ever is the ability to run Blackwing Corruptor, the Kodo just seems utterly insane. It has no prerequisites, it's a beast, it's a turn 3 beast!, can do 4+ damage in some circumstances.
Nuts, though I think Hunter did deserve a few better options in the mid-game. Relying on bullshit secret miracles into CotW or Highmane into CotW is no way to run a deck. Hopefully MSG means that midrange beast Hunter becomes a thing again.
I gues that is the reason that it is a 4 mana beast. At 3 it would be really broken. Or did you mean that with the coin it can be played at turn 3.
Yeah, sorry, totally meant to type 4.
I was trying to emphasise the fact that it curves nicely. The 3 slot is heavily contested.
The 4-drop slot for Hunter has always been woefully weak to begin with, so whether one card replaces another has a lot less to do with them both costing 4 mana.
And speaking of the 3-drop slot being contested:
Looks like another great card to buff in-hand, as well as with Houndmaster and even Leokk. It's a shame Ram Wrangler is not much longer for Standard, it seems pretty tailored to it.
On November 12 2016 06:30 NewSunshine wrote: The 4-drop slot for Hunter has always been woefully weak to begin with, so whether one card replaces another has a lot less to do with them both costing 4 mana.
And speaking of the 3-drop slot being contested:
Looks like another great card to buff in-hand, as well as with Houndmaster and even Leokk. It's a shame Ram Wrangler is not much longer for Standard, it seems pretty tailored to it.
Don't forget Abusive to trade up then get 4 tokens (that I'll assume are beasts).
Rat Pack is the friend of Houndmasters everywhere. Opponent will have to kill it asap. And that's pretty inconvenient for the opponent, since it doesn't actually weaken the Hunter's board.
At 5 mana with that effect and stats, Knuckles is not terrible. Maybe not an auto-include, but it is not a garbage card.
Don Han'cho feels like a win-more card for me. Buffing just about any late-game threat win Don Han'Cho just feels like a win-more situation for me. However, Don Han'Cho + Grommash /w activator is 15 damage
Not sure what to think about Knuckles, on the first sight you wouldn't play this over lets say Stranglethorn Tiger, then again it does hit both minion and Face, so when hes buffed into 4-8 or even 5-9 he indeed becomes a scary threat at turn 5.
It is slow, but Dispatch Kodo is supposedly there to make space for this thing.
You can't target which card in hand is getting a buff by any of these cards, so this is more luck based play imho. All the minions that buff other minions in hand wont see play in high-end decks, simply because the effect will be to slow for the meta. Maybe few really good ones that will get a spot in some C'tun decks, other than that i can't see it happening.
I could it see it working in a druid list with a bunch of ramp and living roots and you just swap out one of those tokens, probably not gonna be really good but i'll definitely try it out when/if I open her
On November 14 2016 09:04 maze. wrote: Did they forget the print random on the card?
Effects like that have always been random. As a rule, for any effect that would require multiple layers of UI or decision-making, elements are randomized until only 1 target needs to be made. So the implication from this pattern is that summon-from-deck effects will always be random.
Goya's best use would be in a control deck featuring big dues, but also tokens. You want a cheap creature to switch for a bigger one, but you don't want cheap creatures in your deck you may pull out with her.
Paladin seems like the best candidate for his hero power and muster for battle (even if the latter isn't usually played in pala control).
Druid may also be a good option, with cards such as Living Roots, especially in a ramp list already running a lot of big dudes: goya would be a good alternative for when you've missed drawing your ramp.
Man i will never return to paladin I think. No idea why they are doing it a murloc class. How Goya switch works? How do you swap the creatures? At random from your deck?
On November 14 2016 20:57 Solmyr wrote: Man i will never return to paladin I think. No idea why they are doing it a murloc class. How Goya switch works? How do you swap the creatures? At random from your deck?
Yeah. It's a random pick. Like Y'Shaarj or Onyx Bishop.
On November 13 2016 03:42 WindWolf wrote: At 5 mana with that effect and stats, Knuckles is not terrible. Maybe not an auto-include, but it is not a garbage card.
Don Han'cho feels like a win-more card for me. Buffing just about any late-game threat win Don Han'Cho just feels like a win-more situation for me. However, Don Han'Cho + Grommash /w activator is 15 damage
My hope for Don Han'cho is more that you'll use him to extend the life of a deck. So that instead of running out of steam, you'll play Don Han'cho and make left over early drops in your hand relevant (and severely undercosted) again for the late game.
Kind of like how Aggro Hunters threw in Call of the Wild to get another chanceand closing games out if they couldn't do it early.
But, I also thought that was how the cheap inspire cards like Boneguard Lieutenant were supposed to play out.
I'm not sure what to think of the theme, I guess there were already Quilboar in WoW. But this just seems a bad fit to me. Oh well, I do like the mechanics of conditional Charge though, more things to play around / counter the other player should be good right?
Well, I'm not super thrilled about the idea of a 5/5 charge for 5, or a 6/6 charge for 6, even if they are conditional. It's certainly a new twist on the usual mechanics though.
I mean, I think their idea is to make charge a bit more interactive by making cards that the defending player can consider before they come out. But in practice, I fully expect the 5/5 for 5 to punish players who try to counter aggression with taunt minions. It will feel like "If I don't play a taunt, I get run over, and if I do, then they get a 5/5 charge and I get run over anyway."
Overall I don't really like them. The bigger ones don't even seem to have that big of a downside, as a 5 mana 5/5 and a 6 mana 6/6 are okay plays to keep up board control if you have nothing else.
Also, the bigger ones seem to punish controlling deck types, ones that have taunts, or draw cards, play slower, and have large hands. Generally I've gotten the impression that people like playing those types of games as opposed to the "curvestone" that the game has developed into. So thinking more about it I really dislike the 5 and 6 mana versions. A lot of decks play at least something with taunt, and giving the opponent a 5/5 charge for 5 is a disaster. It's a bit easier to avoid ending your turn with 6 or more cards, so the big one isn't as bad. The 4 mana one is fine, since it doesn't seem as easy to activate, and punishes a player for relying on topdecks.
Goya has an interesting effect but is actually terrible.
Lets look at how she works:
1- Requires a sacrifice of another minion on the board 2- 6 mana cost 3- Random minion gets summoned.
Assuming you won't have a board most of the time when she is played, it is needed to expend over 6 mana; T7 onwards that kind of combo is somewhat pointless. She has quite bad stats aswell, 4/3 = 3 mana, wich means the minion who gets summoned needs to be at least 4 mana or higher value to break even. Sending a 1 mana cost card back to your deck is a terrible idea over time, also, the higher the minion you send back, the worst her effect becomes.
Interesting effect but is just too overcosted to work imo.
On November 15 2016 05:02 Hellonslaught wrote: Kabal Chemist hype for possible 4 Dragonfire Potion
Yeah, all indications are that the random Potion refers to collectible cards, like Volcanic Potion, Dragonfire Potion, Pint-Size Potion, Potion of Madness, etc. They're not just re-skinned spare parts. We have only seen the one potion from Mage, I fully expect there to be more from Mage and also a couple from Warlock.
Grimscale Chum is a decent addition to murloc paladin decks. Not for anyfin though Tanaris Hogchopper is good if you get to the stage where your opponent has no hand Spiked Hogrider seems decent as a way to deal with taunt. In wild it trades with Sludge Belcher + Ooze Leartherclad Hogleader will probably be a tech card vs. slow control decks due to the high cost Volcanic Potion is a good board clear for the cost Kabal Chemist can give you any of the revealed potions right? If that is the case then it can be really good, especially in Reno decks Abyssal Enforcer seems good, but I don't know what kind of Warlock deck would like it
On November 14 2016 20:57 Solmyr wrote: Man i will never return to paladin I think. No idea why they are doing it a murloc class. How Goya switch works? How do you swap the creatures? At random from your deck?
I agree. I remember reading an article that they wanted to push Shaman more in the Murloc direction and thats why they added the Murloc recipe for him back then cause HE is the class that controls elements. Hope they will give some Murlocs to him too. I was very disappointed when Tunnel Trogg didn´t promote overload decks and instead was abused by people to play aggro. If Shaman should be aggro it should be with Murlocs. Makes the most sense to me.
Anyways so far the expansion looks nice. I especially like the Goons Gang, very minion centric. Should promote more Minion interaction. I hope Taunt Warrior becomes an archetype. Im also hyped for the new deck recipes. Kabal is obviously Spell centric. I think warlock needs some useful ones. they shouldn´t focus on Zoo again. Im just wondering what the Lotus focus around. What have the three classes in common that are in there? Mana Manipulation?
On November 15 2016 05:38 WindWolf wrote: Now where is the Shaman cards Blizzard?
Grimscale Chum is a decent addition to murloc paladin decks. Not for anyfin though Tanaris Hogchopper is good if you get to the stage where your opponent has no hand Spiked Hogrider seems decent as a way to deal with taunt. In wild it trades with Sludge Belcher + Ooze Leartherclad Hogleader will probably be a tech card vs. slow control decks due to the high cost Volcanic Potion is a good board clear for the cost Kabal Chemist can give you any of the revealed potions right? If that is the case then it can be really good, especially in Reno decks Abyssal Enforcer seems good, but I don't know what kind of Warlock deck would like it
Abyssal Enforcer would at least be worth experimenting with in Renolock, since Renolock can struggle with a lack of board clears. However, Reno will rotate out of standard next year.
On November 15 2016 05:38 WindWolf wrote: Now where is the Shaman cards Blizzard?
Grimscale Chum is a decent addition to murloc paladin decks. Not for anyfin though Tanaris Hogchopper is good if you get to the stage where your opponent has no hand Spiked Hogrider seems decent as a way to deal with taunt. In wild it trades with Sludge Belcher + Ooze Leartherclad Hogleader will probably be a tech card vs. slow control decks due to the high cost Volcanic Potion is a good board clear for the cost Kabal Chemist can give you any of the revealed potions right? If that is the case then it can be really good, especially in Reno decks Abyssal Enforcer seems good, but I don't know what kind of Warlock deck would like it
Abyssal Enforcer would at least be worth experimenting with in Renolock, since Renolock can struggle with a lack of board clears. However, Reno will rotate out of standard next year.
7 mana is too much, won't work. Warlock seems completely dead now that reno rotates out btw. (If you don't like zoo that is.)
I like that the most obvious tempo secret for this card (Mirror Entity) doesn't really work very well when played on turn 1. It means you'll have to play secrets that forward a different plan, or wait to play this guy at the right time.
I think he's pretty strong though. Turns out 0 mana secrets are good.
I'm kind of worried about the low value and/or tempo. You put two cards and 1 mana out and get this 2/1 and the secret. So going first you'll be down to 3 cards on turn 2. kind of lika a rampy hand with no minions and no draw, or a Rogue Hand without minions. Though you have a lot of value Options in mage to make up for it later like AI, Cabbalists Tome, Azure Drake or Ethereal Conjurer.
This will probably my first craft. Reno Mage is one of the most fun decks to play and this cards looks strong with some of the high mana mage spells and ofc this new spell generating guy.
Can bring back(?) Rafaam maybe. I mean this is strong no questions. Will Reno mage be tier 1 ? Probably not, but its still playable even now(kinda). With Firelands Portal or Flamestrike this is like a 0 mana Thing from below, really flexible too.
looks fair, though draw dependant. but got nothing on Archmage Antonidas. (still one of the best legendarys in the game)
problem i can see is that highlander mage probably doesn't have enough drawing options, as you would want this with the new custom spell, or at least Fireportal/Flamestrike.
and what happens when Reno rotates out pretty soon, this becomes useless?
On November 16 2016 05:34 Inzan1ty wrote: looks fair, though draw dependant. but got nothing on Archmage Antonidas. (still one of the best legendarys in the game)
problem i can see is that highlander mage probably doesn't have enough drawing options, as you would want this with the new custom spell, or at least Fireportal/Flamestrike.
and what happens when Reno rotates out pretty soon, this becomes useless?
Cabalist Tome is maybe good enough to give you a chance of getting a good spell to use with Inkmaster Soleil.
Also, I think the idea with the Kabal theme (highlander) is that it'll be powerful enough to replace Reno.
i was thinking inkmaster would be good in a freeze mage deck. pyroblast + frostbolt + ice lance for 17 damage for the win after an alexstraza. or a 5/5 on board plus a big spell (e.g., flamestrike) for board clear.
On November 16 2016 06:31 dAPhREAk wrote: i was thinking inkmaster would be good in a freeze mage deck. pyroblast + frostbolt + ice lance for 17 damage for the win after an alexstraza. or a 5/5 on board plus a big spell (e.g., flamestrike) for board clear.
Would you give up the second Frost Nova, Doomsayer, Blizzard, Frostbolt, Ice Lance, Fireball, etc. for the Inkmaster?
If you were already considering a deck with no duplicates then I can see the appeal but is she worth that massive drawback on her own? Reno worked because his effect was HUGE. The no duplicates restriction even hurts Solia because you are less likely to have her and Flamestrike (or Firelands Portal or Pyroblast) in hand.
On November 16 2016 06:31 dAPhREAk wrote: i was thinking inkmaster would be good in a freeze mage deck. pyroblast + frostbolt + ice lance for 17 damage for the win after an alexstraza. or a 5/5 on board plus a big spell (e.g., flamestrike) for board clear.
Would you give up the second Frost Nova, Doomsayer, Blizzard, Frostbolt, Ice Lance, Fireball, etc. for the Inkmaster?
If you were already considering a deck with no duplicates then I can see the appeal but is she worth that massive drawback on her own? Reno worked because his effect was HUGE. The no duplicates restriction even hurts Solia because you are less likely to have her and Flamestrike (or Firelands Portal or Pyroblast) in hand.
my freezereno deck runs two novas, two doomsayers, one blizzard, two frosts, two ice lance and one fireball; also twoof each of the secrets. i think the same can be done for this. not sure if its worth it, but may be good, got to test it.
On November 16 2016 06:31 dAPhREAk wrote: i was thinking inkmaster would be good in a freeze mage deck. pyroblast + frostbolt + ice lance for 17 damage for the win after an alexstraza. or a 5/5 on board plus a big spell (e.g., flamestrike) for board clear.
Would you give up the second Frost Nova, Doomsayer, Blizzard, Frostbolt, Ice Lance, Fireball, etc. for the Inkmaster?
If you were already considering a deck with no duplicates then I can see the appeal but is she worth that massive drawback on her own? Reno worked because his effect was HUGE. The no duplicates restriction even hurts Solia because you are less likely to have her and Flamestrike (or Firelands Portal or Pyroblast) in hand.
my freezereno deck runs two novas, two doomsayers, one blizzard, two frosts, two ice lance and one fireball; also twoof each of the secrets. i think the same can be done for this. not sure if its worth it, but may be good, got to test it.
How often do you get to play Reno with his battlecry? I once tried a Reno-based control shaman and the only duplicates were Hex and Lightning Storm yet I was often frustrated by being unable to heal with Reno.
Potion of Polymorph (Rare Mage Secret) After your opponent plays a minion, transform it into a 1/1 Sheep
This is a really good secret. I believe that it can be much better than Mirror Entity in some cases
Yeah it's not bad. It stops things like Thaurissan and Ragnaros (either) from triggering, avoids tricky situations from Sylvanas, and a few other nice things that Mirror Entity doesn't do.
So when the Priest or Warlock plays Kabal Chemist, then plays a Mage Secret, it's probably this!
On November 16 2016 06:31 dAPhREAk wrote: i was thinking inkmaster would be good in a freeze mage deck. pyroblast + frostbolt + ice lance for 17 damage for the win after an alexstraza. or a 5/5 on board plus a big spell (e.g., flamestrike) for board clear.
Would you give up the second Frost Nova, Doomsayer, Blizzard, Frostbolt, Ice Lance, Fireball, etc. for the Inkmaster?
If you were already considering a deck with no duplicates then I can see the appeal but is she worth that massive drawback on her own? Reno worked because his effect was HUGE. The no duplicates restriction even hurts Solia because you are less likely to have her and Flamestrike (or Firelands Portal or Pyroblast) in hand.
my freezereno deck runs two novas, two doomsayers, one blizzard, two frosts, two ice lance and one fireball; also twoof each of the secrets. i think the same can be done for this. not sure if its worth it, but may be good, got to test it.
How often do you get to play Reno with his battlecry? I once tried a Reno-based control shaman and the only duplicates were Hex and Lightning Storm yet I was often frustrated by being unable to heal with Reno.
The difference is that Mage is much better at delaying with freeze effects, defensive secrets, and clears, and also better at drawing cards. Freeze Mage will want to hold off on Reno until the last possible moment anyway, so it's often manageable.
On November 16 2016 03:50 Kenpark wrote: Can bring back(?) Rafaam maybe. I mean this is strong no questions. Will Reno mage be tier 1 ? Probably not, but its still playable even now(kinda). With Firelands Portal or Flamestrike this is like a 0 mana Thing from below, really flexible too.
Potion of Polymorph (Rare Mage Secret) After your opponent plays a minion, transform it into a 1/1 Sheep
This is a really good secret. I believe that it can be much better than Mirror Entity in some cases
Yeah it's not bad. It stops things like Thaurissan and Ragnaros (either) from triggering, avoids tricky situations from Sylvanas, and a few other nice things that Mirror Entity doesn't do.
So when the Priest or Warlock plays Kabal Chemist, then plays a Mage Secret, it's probably this!
Really wish this card was 'When' instead of 'After'. Still pretty good though.
Potion of Polymorph (Rare Mage Secret) After your opponent plays a minion, transform it into a 1/1 Sheep
This is a really good secret. I believe that it can be much better than Mirror Entity in some cases
Yeah it's not bad. It stops things like Thaurissan and Ragnaros (either) from triggering, avoids tricky situations from Sylvanas, and a few other nice things that Mirror Entity doesn't do.
So when the Priest or Warlock plays Kabal Chemist, then plays a Mage Secret, it's probably this!
Really wish this card was 'When' instead of 'After'. Still pretty good though.
After seems way clearer as to what parts of the entering play sequence occur before the transformation takes plays. By the way do think 'on summons' like Knife Juggler/Councilman will trigger twice?
On November 16 2016 06:31 dAPhREAk wrote: i was thinking inkmaster would be good in a freeze mage deck. pyroblast + frostbolt + ice lance for 17 damage for the win after an alexstraza. or a 5/5 on board plus a big spell (e.g., flamestrike) for board clear.
Would you give up the second Frost Nova, Doomsayer, Blizzard, Frostbolt, Ice Lance, Fireball, etc. for the Inkmaster?
If you were already considering a deck with no duplicates then I can see the appeal but is she worth that massive drawback on her own? Reno worked because his effect was HUGE. The no duplicates restriction even hurts Solia because you are less likely to have her and Flamestrike (or Firelands Portal or Pyroblast) in hand.
my freezereno deck runs two novas, two doomsayers, one blizzard, two frosts, two ice lance and one fireball; also twoof each of the secrets. i think the same can be done for this. not sure if its worth it, but may be good, got to test it.
How often do you get to play Reno with his battlecry? I once tried a Reno-based control shaman and the only duplicates were Hex and Lightning Storm yet I was often frustrated by being unable to heal with Reno.
i still play wild so with the 2-2 pull a secret dudes, its more common to get the reno off. however, it all depends on draw. as someone else said above, mage is good about delaying and if you have reno and can get through about half your deck, it usually allows you to use him. i have had him sit in my hand often without the ability to play him though (even to the last two cards). its fun to drop him on a board with 1 life, and his battlecry doesnt go off then concede. ;-)
Potion of Polymorph (Rare Mage Secret) After your opponent plays a minion, transform it into a 1/1 Sheep
This is a really good secret. I believe that it can be much better than Mirror Entity in some cases
Yeah it's not bad. It stops things like Thaurissan and Ragnaros (either) from triggering, avoids tricky situations from Sylvanas, and a few other nice things that Mirror Entity doesn't do.
So when the Priest or Warlock plays Kabal Chemist, then plays a Mage Secret, it's probably this!
Really wish this card was 'When' instead of 'After'. Still pretty good though.
After seems way clearer as to what parts of the entering play sequence occur before the transformation takes plays. By the way do think 'on summons' like Knife Juggler/Councilman will trigger twice?
I assume not, since to me it should follow the same sequence is casting the spell: play minion -> polymorph into sheep. Not play minion -> remove minion -> play sheep.
On November 16 2016 06:31 dAPhREAk wrote: i was thinking inkmaster would be good in a freeze mage deck. pyroblast + frostbolt + ice lance for 17 damage for the win after an alexstraza. or a 5/5 on board plus a big spell (e.g., flamestrike) for board clear.
Would you give up the second Frost Nova, Doomsayer, Blizzard, Frostbolt, Ice Lance, Fireball, etc. for the Inkmaster?
If you were already considering a deck with no duplicates then I can see the appeal but is she worth that massive drawback on her own? Reno worked because his effect was HUGE. The no duplicates restriction even hurts Solia because you are less likely to have her and Flamestrike (or Firelands Portal or Pyroblast) in hand.
my freezereno deck runs two novas, two doomsayers, one blizzard, two frosts, two ice lance and one fireball; also twoof each of the secrets. i think the same can be done for this. not sure if its worth it, but may be good, got to test it.
How often do you get to play Reno with his battlecry? I once tried a Reno-based control shaman and the only duplicates were Hex and Lightning Storm yet I was often frustrated by being unable to heal with Reno.
i still play wild so with the 2-2 pull a secret dudes, its more common to get the reno off. however, it all depends on draw. as someone else said above, mage is good about delaying and if you have reno and can get through about half your deck, it usually allows you to use him. i have had him sit in my hand often without the ability to play him though (even to the last two cards). its fun to drop him on a board with 1 life, and his battlecry doesnt go off then concede. ;-)
Even if you get through half your deck I thought the odds on having Reno and his battlecry would be small. You need to have drawn Reno and (at least) one copy of every pair. My intuition is probably wrong about how unlikely that is
But going back to Inkmaster Solia; I think it is not a brilliant card, at least she doesn't seem worth the 'no duplicates' condition. There are two ways I can think of her. As a giver of a 'free' spell, or a cheap 5/5.
The spell is free but nobody would play a vanilla 5/5 (I never see Pit Fighter) so you are paying 2-3 mana for that free spell. If your spell is <=3 mana then it is bad. (Solia + Frostbolt is a bad Fire Elemental, Solia + Arcane Intellect is a 2-card version of the old Ancient of Lore.) Even with Cabalist's Tome she isn't great (7-mana and 2 cards for a 5/5 and 3 random spells).
I think you really do need to play her with Flamestrike or Firelands Portal or Pyroblast to get value from her. I don't know how often you would have Solia and one of those cards in hand also with a good reason to play the spell (no point playing Flamestrike if they have no minions.)
So she doesn't really give much value unless you are aiming for the late-game anyway. Maybe there will be some form of control mage that isn't freeze mage where she is useful. Even in freeze mage, Solia + Pyroblast is still worse than Fireball + Roaring Torch, and the latter also benefits more from Thaurissan and Thalnos. And a 5/5 body when used with Flamestrike/Blizzard might not be that good because you're not playing other minions to use up their removal.
If you want to play a cheap vanilla 5/5 then you are looking for a tempo advantage so I assume you will want to put her in a tempo deck, but a tempo deck values consistency more than a cheap 5/5 on turn seven or later.
So while she may end up being amazing in a certain deck or specific situations I am not excited enough to craft her. If I opened her in a pack though, I would definitely give her a chance.
This card is a counter to Sylvanas (if you have no board otherwise). Kills her and deals some damage to the enemy face. N'zoth decks might even have to be more cautious about playing Sylvanas
On November 16 2016 06:31 dAPhREAk wrote: i was thinking inkmaster would be good in a freeze mage deck. pyroblast + frostbolt + ice lance for 17 damage for the win after an alexstraza. or a 5/5 on board plus a big spell (e.g., flamestrike) for board clear.
Would you give up the second Frost Nova, Doomsayer, Blizzard, Frostbolt, Ice Lance, Fireball, etc. for the Inkmaster?
If you were already considering a deck with no duplicates then I can see the appeal but is she worth that massive drawback on her own? Reno worked because his effect was HUGE. The no duplicates restriction even hurts Solia because you are less likely to have her and Flamestrike (or Firelands Portal or Pyroblast) in hand.
my freezereno deck runs two novas, two doomsayers, one blizzard, two frosts, two ice lance and one fireball; also twoof each of the secrets. i think the same can be done for this. not sure if its worth it, but may be good, got to test it.
How often do you get to play Reno with his battlecry? I once tried a Reno-based control shaman and the only duplicates were Hex and Lightning Storm yet I was often frustrated by being unable to heal with Reno.
i still play wild so with the 2-2 pull a secret dudes, its more common to get the reno off. however, it all depends on draw. as someone else said above, mage is good about delaying and if you have reno and can get through about half your deck, it usually allows you to use him. i have had him sit in my hand often without the ability to play him though (even to the last two cards). its fun to drop him on a board with 1 life, and his battlecry doesnt go off then concede. ;-)
Even if you get through half your deck I thought the odds on having Reno and his battlecry would be small. You need to have drawn Reno and (at least) one copy of every pair. My intuition is probably wrong about how unlikely that is
But going back to Inkmaster Solia; I think it is not a brilliant card, at least she doesn't seem worth the 'no duplicates' condition. There are two ways I can think of her. As a giver of a 'free' spell, or a cheap 5/5.
The spell is free but nobody would play a vanilla 5/5 (I never see Pit Fighter) so you are paying 2-3 mana for that free spell. If your spell is <=3 mana then it is bad. (Solia + Frostbolt is a bad Fire Elemental, Solia + Arcane Intellect is a 2-card version of the old Ancient of Lore.) Even with Cabalist's Tome she isn't great (7-mana and 2 cards for a 5/5 and 3 random spells).
I think you really do need to play her with Flamestrike or Firelands Portal or Pyroblast to get value from her. I don't know how often you would have Solia and one of those cards in hand also with a good reason to play the spell (no point playing Flamestrike if they have no minions.)
So she doesn't really give much value unless you are aiming for the late-game anyway. Maybe there will be some form of control mage that isn't freeze mage where she is useful. Even in freeze mage, Solia + Pyroblast is still worse than Fireball + Roaring Torch, and the latter also benefits more from Thaurissan and Thalnos. And a 5/5 body when used with Flamestrike/Blizzard might not be that good because you're not playing other minions to use up their removal.
If you want to play a cheap vanilla 5/5 then you are looking for a tempo advantage so I assume you will want to put her in a tempo deck, but a tempo deck values consistency more than a cheap 5/5 on turn seven or later.
So while she may end up being amazing in a certain deck or specific situations I am not excited enough to craft her. If I opened her in a pack though, I would definitely give her a chance.
Solia, along with Kazakus and the other Kabal cards will be great additions to current Reno Mage lists. I guess the real question is what's coming next year to replace Reno? If nothing, Solia may be unplayable in the next rotation.
Her upsides in the immediate future seem to be clearly based around the Kazakus 10 mana spell. However, she's also handy to keep board control. We all know how weak AoEs are, and playing a Flamestrike to clear Shaman bullshit only to have them refill the board immediately is pretty annoying. She can at least help you to stabilise in these spots.
I'm mostly just biased towards any cards that are control-centric though to be honest.
This card is a counter to Sylvanas (if you have no board otherwise). Kills her and deals some damage to the enemy face. N'zoth decks might even have to be more cautious about playing Sylvanas
Dat sweet, sweet Firelands Portal nerf!!!!!
Honestly think Bomb Squad might be my favourite card of the set so far!
On November 18 2016 04:49 Inzan1ty wrote: give Druid these AoE options ffs
cant be that since classic they're stuck with Swipe and Starfall...
Warlock and Mage already have monster boardclears...
You never know, seeing how Warlock is getting 2 new AoE cards, maybe Druid might get some love. It's always been their weakness, so I wouldn't expect terribly much, but this set is looking pretty promising on all fronts(except aggro, and I'm not sorry for that).
On November 18 2016 04:49 Inzan1ty wrote: give Druid these AoE options ffs
cant be that since classic they're stuck with Swipe and Starfall...
Warlock and Mage already have monster boardclears...
You never know, seeing how Warlock is getting 2 new AoE cards, maybe Druid might get some love. It's always been their weakness, so I wouldn't expect terribly much, but this set is looking pretty promising on all fronts(except aggro, and I'm not sorry for that).
I don't think classes that don't have these tools should just be given these tools. Why make every class like every class?
Way back when Force of Nature was supposed to be pseudo-board clear. But of course it ended up being face damage...
So now that Force has been changed into board presence, it doesn't seem outrageous to give Druid a real board clear (limited or otherwise).
On November 18 2016 04:49 Inzan1ty wrote: give Druid these AoE options ffs
cant be that since classic they're stuck with Swipe and Starfall...
Warlock and Mage already have monster boardclears...
You never know, seeing how Warlock is getting 2 new AoE cards, maybe Druid might get some love. It's always been their weakness, so I wouldn't expect terribly much, but this set is looking pretty promising on all fronts(except aggro, and I'm not sorry for that).
I don't think classes that don't have these tools should just be given these tools. Why make every class like every class?
Way back when Force of Nature was supposed to be pseudo-board clear. But of course it ended up being face damage...
So now that Force has been changed into board presence, it doesn't seem outrageous to give Druid a real board clear (limited or otherwise).
yes, give druid a good boardclear with all the ramp and card draw they have. what could possibly go wrong?
Do you consider Nourish decent Card draw, which trades pretty significantly in tempo ?
Ancient of Lore was strong, but still not on the card of minions that needed to receive a Nerf and its almost unplayable now.
Druid has received strong tools, but mostly in form of minions and Spells other than Boardclears. People are only truly worried because of their ramp advantage. Yet while doing decent, Druid was never the dominant class since back years ago.
On November 18 2016 06:29 Inzan1ty wrote: Do you consider Nourish decent Card draw, which trades pretty significantly in tempo ?
Ancient of Lore was strong, but still not on the card of minions that needed to receive a Nerf and its almost unplayable now.
Druid has received strong tools, but mostly in form of minions and Spells other than Boardclears. People are only truly worried because of their ramp advantage. Yet while doing decent, Druid was never the dominant class since back years ago.
Is this an indication that Blizzard is seriously considering making changes to the classic set or replace it with a core set of kinds? Because what's the point of that card compared Acidic Swamp Ooze, Bloodsail Corsair or Harrison Jones?
While not as good as the standard ooze I can see its use, when your opponent equips a weapon and uses a charge straight away, you can then just get rid of the weapon straight away and get a bit of board presence.
It feels like the old Ooze and Harrison are both superior in their own ways. This is not as quick (and efficient) as the first, and the additional mana is better spent for card draw with Harrison (even if he costs a couple more). This is a useless middleground, given that the stat distribution quite bad too..
Mostly an (good) arena card. Even in Reno decks, I doubt I would ever want a third weapon breaker.
I wonder what the interaction between Jaraxxus and Potion of Polymorph will be. If we are going by the same logic as his interaction with Snipe, Sacred Trial and Repentance, he would be transformed into a Sheep. However, Potion of Polymorph is the only card that says after your opponent plays a minion so idk
I can understand why Raza wasn't neutral but did it have to go to priest? An even stronger late-game, on top of getting a strong early-game, is that was priest really needed right now? I still think that priest is a much better class than many people claim. But priest is garbage tier and has been that was since launch soo.....
Thankfully Anyfin exists, so that there is something that can compete with priest.
That is a brutal card, more than perfect for Shadowpriest decks. With Shadowform as your only 2-of in a Reno Shadowpriest, you can heal up, play 1 Shadowform, hit for 2, play the second Shadowform, and hit for 3, and it only cost you 6 mana, and from then on you can always burn something for 3 every round, regardless of the play. Just be thankful it wasn't given to Mages, with Coldarra Drake in their arsenal.
Now, having seen 2 legendaries from the Kabal, it's clear the Warlock legendary will also have a no-duplicate trigger. Given all the shiny new ways with which Warlocks will be able to wreck their own face, they're gonna need another Reno-type card. Fingers crossed.
On November 19 2016 01:44 NewSunshine wrote: That is a brutal card, more than perfect for Shadowpriest decks. With Shadowform as your only 2-of in a Reno Shadowpriest, you can heal up, play 1 Shadowform, hit for 2, play the second Shadowform, and hit for 3, and it only cost you 6 mana, and from then on you can always burn something for 3 every round, regardless of the play. Just be thankful it wasn't given to Mages, with Coldarra Drake in their arsenal.
Now, having seen 2 legendaries from the Kabal, it's clear the Warlock legendary will also have a no-duplicate trigger. Given all the shiny new ways with which Warlocks will be able to wreck their own face, they're gonna need another Reno-type card. Fingers crossed.
It's funny, Shadowform was the first thing that came to my mind too when I saw Raza.
The Kabal theme was stated to be no-dups, so 100% the Warlock leg is going to be the same. What I'm wondering is if there are going to be any epics that do it too since Kazakus + class Leg might not be enough to get people to keep playing Reno decks once Reno rotates out.
Raza is okay, maybe even good, but I think people might be overestimating him at first glance. Offhand, I don't think his ability is as good as Justicar Trueheart's, and she doesn't force you to build a singleton deck. And unlike Warlock and Mage, Priest doesn't have a ton of card draw options to try to compensate for the singleton deck composition and won't draw into the cards that the deck is centered around as often.
On November 19 2016 03:24 Dromar wrote: Raza is okay, maybe even good, but I think people might be overestimating him at first glance. Offhand, I don't think his ability is as good as Justicar Trueheart's, and she doesn't force you to build a singleton deck. And unlike Warlock and Mage, Priest doesn't have a ton of card draw options to try to compensate for the singleton deck composition and won't draw into the cards that the deck is centered around as often.
Pretty much this.
Also getting this card in the end of your deck playing a single copy of entomb/aoe/etc is just terrible.
was hoping Big Velen would get some help, but this card (as a legendary at least) is really unnecessary. It does the job against Hunter or fast decks when played on curve, where you usually don't have any mana left over to heal while playing cards. On the other end It becomes entirely useless in the late game, or against slow control decks.
It is a boring and unspectacular card.
Something more spectacular would have been nice to make Velen decks more significant.
"Battlecry: All your minions have spell dmg +2" or "Deathrattle: Add three "Wrath of Light" to your hand" - some 1 mana 3 dmg spells that can hit both face and minions.
---
edit: in b4 Beardo value. Yea but how realistic is that to be a consistent plan with so many cards to create a combo. Raza + Shadowform + Beardo + low Mana Spells + Justicar for like 12 dmg...
edit 2: Kabal courier into "the dream" on pulling a Coldarra Drake - what are approx the odds on that?
On November 20 2016 05:01 WindWolf wrote: Having Wild Growth at 3 mana seems a bit weird. Howes depending on what a Jade Golem is, that can make up for it
I suppose it might be okay to play on turn 1 with Innervate, if the Jade Golem can kill 1-drops anyway. Or on turn 2 after Coin + Wild Growth on turn 1.
On November 20 2016 05:01 WindWolf wrote: Having Wild Growth at 3 mana seems a bit weird. Howes depending on what a Jade Golem is, that can make up for it
It's also another non-minion for Madam Goya decks.
Bold writing (for cards with effects) so it could be real but we'll see. Ramp Druid just became a bit more exciting, with the T1 Innervate Coin option this is arguably more impactful than a 4 mana Boost 3-3.
On November 19 2016 01:44 NewSunshine wrote: That is a brutal card, more than perfect for Shadowpriest decks. With Shadowform as your only 2-of in a Reno Shadowpriest, you can heal up, play 1 Shadowform, hit for 2, play the second Shadowform, and hit for 3, and it only cost you 6 mana, and from then on you can always burn something for 3 every round, regardless of the play. Just be thankful it wasn't given to Mages, with Coldarra Drake in their arsenal.
Now, having seen 2 legendaries from the Kabal, it's clear the Warlock legendary will also have a no-duplicate trigger. Given all the shiny new ways with which Warlocks will be able to wreck their own face, they're gonna need another Reno-type card. Fingers crossed.
You can only have 1 shadowform in the deck if you have Raza, so you can never have the 3 damage hero power if you want it to cost 0 mana from Raza. The only way would be to "discover" a 3 mana spell from one of the tri-class cards or jeweled scarab and luck out enough to get a second shadowform.
On November 19 2016 01:44 NewSunshine wrote: That is a brutal card, more than perfect for Shadowpriest decks. With Shadowform as your only 2-of in a Reno Shadowpriest, you can heal up, play 1 Shadowform, hit for 2, play the second Shadowform, and hit for 3, and it only cost you 6 mana, and from then on you can always burn something for 3 every round, regardless of the play. Just be thankful it wasn't given to Mages, with Coldarra Drake in their arsenal.
Now, having seen 2 legendaries from the Kabal, it's clear the Warlock legendary will also have a no-duplicate trigger. Given all the shiny new ways with which Warlocks will be able to wreck their own face, they're gonna need another Reno-type card. Fingers crossed.
You can only have 1 shadowform in the deck if you have Raza, so you can never have the 3 damage hero power if you want it to cost 0 mana from Raza. The only way would be to "discover" a 3 mana spell from one of the tri-class cards or jeweled scarab and luck out enough to get a second shadowform.
It's the same as Reno. You can have duplicates in your deck, but you have to draw all of them before it will work. It only cares about what's in your deck at the moment you play the card.
On November 19 2016 01:44 NewSunshine wrote: That is a brutal card, more than perfect for Shadowpriest decks. With Shadowform as your only 2-of in a Reno Shadowpriest, you can heal up, play 1 Shadowform, hit for 2, play the second Shadowform, and hit for 3, and it only cost you 6 mana, and from then on you can always burn something for 3 every round, regardless of the play. Just be thankful it wasn't given to Mages, with Coldarra Drake in their arsenal.
Now, having seen 2 legendaries from the Kabal, it's clear the Warlock legendary will also have a no-duplicate trigger. Given all the shiny new ways with which Warlocks will be able to wreck their own face, they're gonna need another Reno-type card. Fingers crossed.
You can only have 1 shadowform in the deck if you have Raza, so you can never have the 3 damage hero power if you want it to cost 0 mana from Raza. The only way would be to "discover" a 3 mana spell from one of the tri-class cards or jeweled scarab and luck out enough to get a second shadowform.
It's the same as Reno. You can have duplicates in your deck, but you have to draw all of them before it will work. It only cares about what's in your deck at the moment you play the card.
Oh you're right! I misread the card and didn't realize it was the battlecry. I thought it was like Prince Malchezaar where if you had no duplicates at the start of the game that your hero power was made to cost 0 lol. Reading is hard. ;-;
On November 19 2016 01:44 NewSunshine wrote: That is a brutal card, more than perfect for Shadowpriest decks. With Shadowform as your only 2-of in a Reno Shadowpriest, you can heal up, play 1 Shadowform, hit for 2, play the second Shadowform, and hit for 3, and it only cost you 6 mana, and from then on you can always burn something for 3 every round, regardless of the play. Just be thankful it wasn't given to Mages, with Coldarra Drake in their arsenal.
Now, having seen 2 legendaries from the Kabal, it's clear the Warlock legendary will also have a no-duplicate trigger. Given all the shiny new ways with which Warlocks will be able to wreck their own face, they're gonna need another Reno-type card. Fingers crossed.
You can only have 1 shadowform in the deck if you have Raza, so you can never have the 3 damage hero power if you want it to cost 0 mana from Raza. The only way would be to "discover" a 3 mana spell from one of the tri-class cards or jeweled scarab and luck out enough to get a second shadowform.
It's the same as Reno. You can have duplicates in your deck, but you have to draw all of them before it will work. It only cares about what's in your deck at the moment you play the card.
Oh you're right! I misread the card and didn't realize it was the battlecry. I thought it was like Prince Malchezaar where if you had no duplicates at the start of the game that your hero power was made to cost 0 lol. Reading is hard. ;-;
Malchezaar only gives you legendaries so that it adheres to normal deckbuilding rules. For example you can't get Antonidas if you are playing druid. And you can't get a second copy of Antonidas if you have it in your deck normally. Otherwise he doesn't care about duplicates
You must be careful running this.. in a control deck playing with a big hand, you have very high risks of burning cards, since the opponent can fill up your hand.
On the other hand, surely it can help against rogue decks, but mostly I see it as a good card IN a rogue deck: tomb pillager, this, and then Auctioneer seems like a very nice curve.
A Jade golem is a minion that grows for every earlier summoned jade golem. The first one is a 1/1, second one 2/2 and so forth
Depending on how the other Jade golem cards looks like, we'll see if this is a viable competitive deck. But the cards revealed seems to be better than garbage at the very least.
On November 22 2016 00:14 Hellonslaught wrote: Mana Geode is far too slow and underwhelming for a 2 drop.
Spamming low minions is not what a class that cannot fight for board control early and relies on board wipes wants to do.
I would want to try it as an option against zoo or hunter. It is good against Fiery Bat and Kindly Grandmother. It does well against Possessed Villager and Dark Peddler and Knife Juggler. I don't see it as a card for fighting for board control, more for keeping their board from growing too big before you can play a board clear. It's help in the early game for a control deck that would probably be using the hero power on turn 2 or 3 anyway.
I just love how the Lotus theme is providing both an effect (damage dealer, Mana boost etc) plus a Minion on board.
High tempo is exactly what control decks need in order to effectively deal with aggro
How about an AoE that spits out an Golem as well? We've all seen how strong is Maelstrom. I guess there is still more to come....
On a even better note, now Jade Blossom will NEVER be a dead card, if you draw it late it will pull out a 5-5 to 10-10 golem for 3 mana which is pretty damn ridicolous.
How to get into the 20-20+ tier, now that will be interesting...
Overall though, it seems like they've decided to really beef up the power level of the cards in this set, and push them in a direction of midrange or control/value games. Which I'm probably fine with.
One side effect is that there are a much larger number of legendaries that players will need to craft than in previous sets. All three of the tri-class legendaries seem very powerful, as well as Inkmaster Solia and Wickerflame Burnbristle, and possibly others.
Aya Blackpew is easily the strongest legendary in the set so far. Turn 6 5-3 + 3-3 (4-4+) + 4-4 (5-5+) are you kidding me?
Instant craft + Rest in Piece Highmane.
On November 22 2016 04:28 Dromar wrote: One side effect is that there are a much larger number of legendaries that players will need to craft than in previous sets. All three of the tri-class legendaries seem very powerful, as well as Inkmaster Solia and Wickerflame Burnbristle, and possibly others.
Well...more legs also means higher probability to pull them from packs
On November 22 2016 04:04 Dark_Chill wrote: Blizzard has pretty much decided that silence isn't good though. I don't think it would actually change much.
They did say when rebalancing Ironbeak Owl / Keeper of the Grove that Silence was undercosted. And they've been very stingy giving out new general-purpose silence cards since then.
I think to them Silence just ended up overlapping too much with removal in 90% of the cases.
On November 22 2016 04:45 Inzan1ty wrote: looks very unreliable but probably worth a shot for Alley Armorsmith Warrior ?
So many epics as well ... this set will be costly.
This is my thought as well. There seem to be A LOT to craft to play the decks. You basicaly only had Twin Emps to craft to play like every C Thun deck, here you have a bunch of Epics for every class to play the new theme. Also there isnt rotating out anything so no free dust for standard only players. And that right after the big brawl gold sink.
What do you guys think about Fight Promoter? I am uncertain of how good she is, since it requires you to have a minion on board.
doubt it will get played because of requiring the minion on board. for aggro decks, its too slow. for control decks, it will be hard to keep the minion on board since most high health minions are insta-kills.
Hozen healer looks like it could help fight promoter. Honestly, cards like Fight Promoter should be printed more. Giving people incentives to try out stat blocks instead of just have all of them be complete wastes of cards.
What do you guys think about Fight Promoter? I am uncertain of how good she is, since it requires you to have a minion on board.
I'm unsure as well, but note that all the 0 mana 5/5s they've printed won't work here... but Arcane Giant will. Not sure if it's good enough to warrant a spot just by Arcane Giant synergy. Otherwise you have to play a minion and hope it lives, which could happen, but I'm somewhat skeptical at this point.
I really hope for the sake of this game, Jade mechanics turns out to be a casual theme.
Card is already a total noob hype (30/30? really? -____- ) There is not a single deck who can deal with all previous 29/29, 28/28, 27/27... till it stacks to 30/30 so you get the picture.
Also, rip all control decks who don't run jades unless it has a combo/finisher win condition.
Looks like each of the Jade classes will have at least 2 Jade Golem cards then.
Possibly three each? I kind of hope not. The power level of the Jade Golem mechanic obviously hinges greatly on the number of cards that have it. 2 class cards plus Jade Spirit and Aya already puts 7 Jade Golem cards in decks.
Not sure what to think about Devolve. If you play it against Zoo it's not like they'll care. Not even sure if it'll slow down midrange Shaman that much either (although it could be quite the double whammy against Totem Golems and other Overloaded stuff).
If you play it late it's probably more as pseudo-removal to turn off a Tyrion or Sylvannas I would think, but does Shaman really run out of Hex for stuff like that?
I like both cards conceptually. Devolve I don't think is all that good. If they have enough minions for this to be worthwhile, a board clear is needed instead. Also, one of the most common ways to flood the board is with tokens, which can't really devolve into anything worse. Basically the best thing to say about Devolve is that it's a Mass Dispel with a general weakening effect. But Shaman has Earth Shock and Hex if they are looking for silence, and Devolve can also have some disastrous results as well.
I was reading the reddit thread for Devolve and I didn't realize one thing about it; it is a really good counter to Anyfin and N'Zoth decks. While not risk-free, it can certainly function as a tech-card.
Man I already hate devolve. I hope its not good, but it seems fucking strong to me. For every other class it would probably be way better since shaman already has the best aoe and single target removal.
On November 23 2016 06:46 Inzan1ty wrote: Jade Idol is just insane. With Fandral its Gang Up + Golem on board for 1 freaking mana, and a super strong late game guaranteed.
Actually I'm not sure how Golems will interact with Gang-up. On the Jade Lotus page it shows different stated Golems with different mana costs (and they have no card text).
So it's possible the spell that summons the Jade Golem is what selects it's stats. If so Gang-Up might just give you the same static stat-line later on rather than a more powerful Jade Golem.
Something to clarify when we get the cards I guess.
i assume the mana cost has more to do with what happens if the golem has been interacted with after play than anything else. for example, if you Freezing Trap a 1-1 golem, it will probably only cost 3, but if you do the same to a 30-30 golem, it will exceed 10 mana. it would be kind of ridiculous if you Sap a 30-30 golem and it comes back for one mana.
On November 23 2016 08:11 dAPhREAk wrote: i assume the mana cost has more to do with what happens if the golem has been interacted with after play than anything else. for example, if you Freezing Trap a 1-1 golem, it will probably only cost 3, but if you do the same to a 30-30 golem, it will exceed 10 mana. it would be kind of ridiculous if you Sap a 30-30 golem and it comes back for one mana.
Exactly my thinking and based on the lack of card text, the Golem won't come back with +1/+1 either. Presumably (but maybe not, who knows) the one that comes out of your next Jade Idol with have +2/+2 (so it's be 1/1 then 1/1 then 3/3)?
I don't like the prospects for Devolve, it takes your entire board and destroys any important synergies you've built up, punishing you for building a board, against the one class you need a board against the most. It'd be like giving Druids Shadow Word: Death or Execute. I hope I'm just being worrisome on this one.
WTF SERIOUSLY? Shaman basically only lost to N'Zoth warrior and even that match up was only slightly favored so they gave them a tech card to hard counter that deck? Maybe they account for the looming Priest dominance which will make shaman worse either way. But it will never go away as long as they have thing from below et al.
Shaman didn't need any good cards and they don't deserve one. Devolve should have been their purify as in devolve one of your own minions and draw a card. That would have been fair.
On November 23 2016 05:47 Kenpark wrote: Man I already hate devolve. I hope its not good, but it seems fucking strong to me. For every other class it would probably be way better since shaman already has the best aoe and single target removal.
Agreed. I'm really concerned that Shaman got yet another card that would be an auto-two-of in a lot of other decks. The only saving grace is that, at least for the next five months, Shaman has far too many OP cards for this to see much play. I hope...
If Shaman decks manage to find a way to run this though, it's RIP Grimy Goons decks, Anyfin decks, Murloc decks, N'Zoth decks, traditional Miracle decks, Beast decks and probably some others.
Why did it have to be 'enemy minions'?! ALL minions would have been loads better.
On the subject of Jade decks, I'm really pleased each class has a second proc card. Makes the whole thing immediately viable. Jade Idol in particular looks incredibly strong for Druid.
Woa looks like www.hearthpwn.com is the card that gets the most respect thus far. And i can see why, a card that can define a whole deck arche type (return of Fatique Druid ?) its the only card besides Malorne to give Infinite value ,it even does replace late game legendarys such as Ragnaros. Hopefully I'am not too optimistic with the thought that control decks might finally become competitive. :-/ Also praying that Druid get their strong AoE while we are in Lotus week. Devolve is pretty ridicolous and Shaman didn't need this at all. G_G
On November 23 2016 19:02 Inzan1ty wrote: Woa looks like www.hearthpwn.com is the card that gets the most respect thus far. And i can see why, a card that can define a whole deck arche type (return of Fatique Druid ?) its the only card besides Malorne to give Infinite value ,it even does replace late game legendarys such as Ragnaros. Hopefully I'am not too optimistic with the thought that control decks might finally become competitive. :-/ Also praying that Druid get their strong AoE while we are in Lotus week. Devolve is pretty ridicolous and Shaman didn't need this at all. G_G
I really like the design of this, but to get the most value out of it your going to need loads of card draw and ways to stall your opponent out so they just don't kill you before you start dropping the big golems.
On November 23 2016 05:47 Kenpark wrote: Man I already hate devolve. I hope its not good, but it seems fucking strong to me. For every other class it would probably be way better since shaman already has the best aoe and single target removal.
Agreed. I'm really concerned that Shaman got yet another card that would be an auto-two-of in a lot of other decks. The only saving grace is that, at least for the next five months, Shaman has far too many OP cards for this to see much play. I hope...
If Shaman decks manage to find a way to run this though, it's RIP Grimy Goons decks, Anyfin decks, Murloc decks, N'Zoth decks, traditional Miracle decks, Beast decks and probably some others.
Why did it have to be 'enemy minions'?! ALL minions would have been loads better.
If Devolve is going to be All minions, then Evolve should be all minions as well.
Even as someone playing decks in wild that would dislike playing against devolve, I don't have a problem with it. Anything that prevents "drop everything you have onto the board" is welcome to me.
On November 23 2016 05:47 Kenpark wrote: Man I already hate devolve. I hope its not good, but it seems fucking strong to me. For every other class it would probably be way better since shaman already has the best aoe and single target removal.
Agreed. I'm really concerned that Shaman got yet another card that would be an auto-two-of in a lot of other decks. The only saving grace is that, at least for the next five months, Shaman has far too many OP cards for this to see much play. I hope...
If Shaman decks manage to find a way to run this though, it's RIP Grimy Goons decks, Anyfin decks, Murloc decks, N'Zoth decks, traditional Miracle decks, Beast decks and probably some others.
Why did it have to be 'enemy minions'?! ALL minions would have been loads better.
I think the whole Devolve OP train blows it out of proportion. The effect costs you card and 2 mana of tempo doesn't exactly remove anything and doesn't develop anything on your side. To suppress the decks you named it would need to be in a significant portion of the meta dominating decks, which would only make sense if the decks you named would themselves be quite a large portion of the meta. Which I don't see for most of the existing ones. The grimy Goon deck that I imagine will often rely on Doppelgangster against which Devolve is only good if there where a lot of buffs and even then not amazing.
interested to see what the next two cards will be (murlocs?), that third is clearly a weapon.
Those two aren't Murlocs, they're Jinyu - fish-men from Pandaria. So I'd expect those to be Jade Lotus aligned minions.
Also, it's interesting how we went from 'Devolve looks bad' to 'Devolve is so OP and I'm mad at the devs' in 2 pages.
It might actually be necessary to slow down how rampy Jade Golem and Grimy Goom buffed minions can get after all. And against control decks, it can't get every threat unless the Shaman lets them play them all out over several turns... But it's definitely an interesting card and could indicate that the meta is going to be shaken up a ton, which would be nice.
Yeah Devolve seems like a fairly balanced card. Not to say its not good, but it is generally worse than current midrange cards shaman has.
It's worse than hex as single target removal. Changing Rag into a War Golem is a lot worse than changing Rag into a frog. Likewise changing Sylvannas into a 5/4 or 4/5 is not that great either.
It's also generally worse than lightning storm or maelstrom portal because it doesn't really remove the opponents board, or help you come from behind. Combining lightning storm and Devolve is definitely strong, but certainly not something you want to depend on as a midrange deck.
Definitely can see this card being used in control/combo decks but I don't see it really buffing midrange shaman, which is the deck dominating ladder atm.
Devolve seems super broken. 2 mana fuck your enemies board. Any deck that relies on building up certain groups or types of minions is screwed, deathrattle decks are screwed, decks that chain buffs are screwed, stealth minions are screwed. It's like a aoe tinkmaster overspark effect that is favoured to turn them into weaker minions and tinkmaster was played just for it's silencing/remove a specific minion effect already. This shit should be at least 4 mana it's insane.
Jade Idol, just put 1 in your deck, and you will be drawing endless minions in the fatigue battle between control decks. Seems 100% broken unless jade golems turn out to be unviable, I don't know how this card got printed.
Awful statline, almost like Spirit and Panda Mama. I guess this is supposed to balance things out. At turn 6 you should however at least played 1 golem before so its effectively a 5-8+ for 6 in a normal game, which is good
Rather than the terrible 4 drop I'd have 2 Idol's in this deck, 2-3 and 1-1 is just too much of a loss.
To be honest this feels 100% like C'Thun, Blizzard once again dictates what we have to play these upcoming months.
Don't you dare make fun of Secret Pala, it will return 100% Now with Getaway Kodo, Small recruits and Doppelgangster, Aggro-Secret Pala is already fancying their chance to capitalize on these slow decks.
On November 24 2016 08:08 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote: Devolve seems super broken. 2 mana fuck your enemies board. Any deck that relies on building up certain groups or types of minions is screwed, deathrattle decks are screwed, decks that chain buffs are screwed, stealth minions are screwed. It's like a aoe tinkmaster overspark effect that is favoured to turn them into weaker minions and tinkmaster was played just for it's silencing/remove a specific minion effect already. This shit should be at least 4 mana it's insane.
Jade Idol, just put 1 in your deck, and you will be drawing endless minions in the fatigue battle between control decks. Seems 100% broken unless jade golems turn out to be unviable, I don't know how this card got printed.
Not at all like Tinkmaster as Tinkmaster guaranteed a drop in stats/equal stats and a silence while this guarantees neither - common powerful battlecry minions like Defender of Argus, Fire Elemental, Mire Keeper, or Azure Drake will often gain value from this and almost never lose it(I actually had a full list written up but this site hates me and decide to delete it all randomly because reasons? Something like this happens every time I try to write something detailed here fml... you think I'd learn to just write this stuff in word and copy paste it by now)
While other things like Sylvanus though silenced don't have a 50/50 chance of becoming a 1/1 and usually keep around the same stat total only losing or gaining 1 point in most cases while also not developing a 2/2 as Tinkmaster did. Rag admittedly works a bit less well against this but if this was your best answer to rag then you've likely got bigger problems... like that 6/6 standing where Rag used to be.
Basically the card works like a 2 mana Mass Dispel in most situations but doesn't draw you a card either.It's worse against deathrattle too as the new random minion will often have better stats than the first half of the deathrattle card. Also I'd much rather Lightning Storm or Maelstrom Portal and take control of the board than Devolve and weaken my opponents control of it in 99% of situations.
Jade Idol is the most broken card I've ever seen in a card game. I cannot understand how this ever got through their monitoring.
In the absolute worst case scenario, this is a 1 mana 1-1 against aggro. It's not great, but it's still better than a control card you couldn't play or whatever, and only 1 stat point below the expected value. Also, it further buffs any other jade golem cards you might want to play.
Apart from that, this card enables you to never ever be hit by a single point of fatigue damage while also building up further and further increasing power. You add one single 1 mana card in your deck and no deck in the entire game will ever outvalue our outfatigue you while you gain a premier win condition. It's just absurd.
The deck can be fully built as nothing but anti-aggro because this card will destroy any control decks with no assistance required.
for control decks that don't run a big combo finisher, that is true. not entirely prepared to call it "the most broken card I've ever seen in a card game" cause of that, but it does seem pretty sick. could make Mill/Fatigue Druid a thing again.
On November 24 2016 21:06 Shikyo wrote: Jade Idol is the most broken card I've ever seen in a card game. I cannot understand how this ever got through their monitoring.
In the absolute worst case scenario, this is a 1 mana 1-1 against aggro. It's not great, but it's still better than a control card you couldn't play or whatever, and only 1 stat point below the expected value. Also, it further buffs any other jade golem cards you might want to play.
Apart from that, this card enables you to never ever be hit by a single point of fatigue damage while also building up further and further increasing power. You add one single 1 mana card in your deck and no deck in the entire game will ever outvalue our outfatigue you while you gain a premier win condition. It's just absurd.
The deck can be fully built as nothing but anti-aggro because this card will destroy any control decks with no assistance required.
I think it needs a lot of draw and it needs enough tools to return from a bad tempo deficit otherwise you either run out of cards an fall behind in Tempo after or you fall behind in Tempo while keeping up in cards and don't stabilize in time. Though I have a vague feeling that building it with Curator, Azure Drakes and Coldlight Oracles will be plenty of draw and the hard part will be the keeping up/coming back in Tempo. Siwpe, Wrath and Mulch will only get you so far against the usual midrange/curvestone decks that tend to dominate the meta for long stretches.
On November 24 2016 21:06 Shikyo wrote: Jade Idol is the most broken card I've ever seen in a card game. I cannot understand how this ever got through their monitoring.
Ok, i had enough of that crap. Jade Idol shines as a tech card to counter mill decks but is actually pretty weak by itself.
If that card sees any play, will be through Combo Abuse (Gadgetzan Auctioneer / Fandral Staghelm), a new mill deck or because jade mechanic is just broken.
T1 1 mana summon 1/1 is bad. Worse then wisp. Top deck Jade Idol later with an empty hand to summon a 3/3~6/6 on T8+ is bad. Sending 3 copies of this card to your deck, wasting 1 mana +1 card that does nothing is REALLY bad.
For this card to be good without combos, its necessary that your deck NEVER top deck cards, do not fall far behind on board or has AOE, contain jade cards, some form of healing to survive combo/face damage, and consistent draw engine.
If druid can pull this out, then Jade Idol will be a great card. But if jade mechanic turns out to be too slow, it won't be a good deck anyway, even if it is a good card.
I think that Jade Idol will only be really really strong if some form of fatigue druid deck emerges. Otherwise, I think druid has better alternatives if they want to play a token-based deck.
Well it IS the ultimate late game control card, since it not only prevents you from Fatique, it also makes sure you'll have a constant infinite threat (Big Golems) to close out these games, and it IS an unfair advantage against Warrior/Priest.
The hype/shitstorm it gets is mostly justified, whats more important however, the whole deck is what remains to be seen. Since Druid is unlikely to get their boardclear it might as well be that their current Powerlevel meta-wise only receives a slight boost at best, since any Matchup against Aggro and Mid Range is rather unfavourable and Jade Idol doesn't help here.
i'am calling it here, Shaman and Hunter will be dominating class.
On November 25 2016 05:28 Inzan1ty wrote: Well it IS the ultimate late game control card, since it not only prevents you from Fatique, it also makes sure you'll have a constant infinite threat (Big Golems) to close out these games, and it IS an unfair advantage against Warrior/Priest.
The hype/shitstorm it gets is mostly justified, whats more important however, the whole deck is what remains to be seen. Since Druid is unlikely to get their boardclear it might as well be that their current Powerlevel meta-wise only receives a slight boost at best, since any Matchup against Aggro and Mid Range is rather unfavourable and Jade Idol doesn't help here.
i'am calling it here, Shaman and Hunter will be dominating class.
Nah it is pretty bad, as say a one of in any regular deck to win control mu's. First of it is a dead draw. Then you put 3 more basiacaly dead draws in your deck. It might be ok vs very slow no win condition decks like priest or warrior, but vs any N'Zoth version for example you are doomed anyway as a druid. It takes way to long to get online to be of any use. By this time you are facing like I said N'Zoth which is autowin vs druid or like 3 20/20 C'Thuns. It is only op in Kripp's twisted value mind. This will see no play, other than gimmicky Gadgetzan/Fatigue w/e deck. Or Jade druid ofc, but I doubt Jade will be better than any regular druid, since Token/ Maly have some great synergy with the nature of mana "cheating" druid and the cards we already have.
Well we will see I guess. "Any druid that put one of these in his deck will never lose the fatigue game, thats busted" -Kripp
So you draw your first, shuffle three more in. That is one completely dead draw. Now you have 3 more almost dead draws in your deck, which is a really bad thing if the game doesnt go to fatigue. You now have two to play so you get a 1/1 a 2/2 und the next you obv wanna shuffle back right ? So now we are at 4 almost dead draws. How can this be any good ?
You would need a massive draw engine for this to be any good. And even then if you lets say get a Gadzetan up and draw a bunch of cards, you are probably better off drawing all your burn in a Malygos deck and do like 30 damage vs something like priest.
On November 25 2016 22:08 WindWolf wrote: Unless you want a 2/3 rather than a 3/2, I don't see the reason to run this over Youthful Brewmaster
The thing is that if you have a board Youthful Brewmaster is a tempolosing 'return to hand'-effect by default. This minion can be played to get the shadowstep value but can also be played for Tempo if it's the first card you play.
Well we will see I guess. "Any druid that put one of these in his deck will never lose the fatigue game, thats busted" -Kripp
So you draw your first, shuffle three more in. That is one completely dead draw. Now you have 3 more almost dead draws in your deck, which is a really bad thing if the game doesnt go to fatigue. You now have two to play so you get a 1/1 a 2/2 und the next you obv wanna shuffle back right ? So now we are at 4 almost dead draws. How can this be any good ?
You would need a massive draw engine for this to be any good. And even then if you lets say get a Gadzetan up and draw a bunch of cards, you are probably better off drawing all your burn in a Malygos deck and do like 30 damage vs something like priest.
It would be busted in the way described if druid had a universal board clear like Twisting Nether, Equality-combos, Brawl or to a lesser degree Light Bomb. So I suppose you could try it in Wild where you have acces to Poison Seeds+Starfall or Explosive Sheep+Poison Seed.
On November 25 2016 22:08 WindWolf wrote: Unless you want a 2/3 rather than a 3/2, I don't see the reason to run this over Youthful Brewmaster
The thing is that if you have a board Youthful Brewmaster is a tempolosing 'return to hand'-effect by default. This minion can be played to get the shadowstep value but can also be played for Tempo if it's the first card you play.
It is not 'shadowstep value' since it doesnt reduce the costs. Lets just agree it is useless garbage.
Rogue is certainly not getting much love this Expansion.
On November 25 2016 22:08 WindWolf wrote: Unless you want a 2/3 rather than a 3/2, I don't see the reason to run this over Youthful Brewmaster
The thing is that if you have a board Youthful Brewmaster is a tempolosing 'return to hand'-effect by default. This minion can be played to get the shadowstep value but can also be played for Tempo if it's the first card you play.
It is not 'shadowstep value' since it doesnt reduce the costs. Lets just agree it is useless trashcard.
Rogue is certainly not getting much love this Expansion.
I'm really hoping that Jade claw looking thing is a new Rogue weapon! We'll find out in the next couple of hours I guess.
It is not 'shadowstep value' since it doesnt reduce the costs. Lets just agree it is useless garbage.
Far from it. Of course it's very specific, like Shadowstep is. It doesn't reduce the minion's cost, but unlike shadowstep it's not a useless card in your starting hand, or when you topdeck it with a board with nothing worth bouncing.
I could find it useful in a tempo deck which wouldn't dislike a simple 2/3 on turn two, but at the same time runs a good amount of battlecry/charge minions worth shadowstepping later to gain additional value. In this scenario, it's a sort of 2/3 which later in tha game also gets and additional battlecry + minion heal by paying a bit more mana. And if jade statues are actually good for rogue, this minion will be played for sure!
Daring Reporter should be great for weapon classes in arena. Play and swing at a minion that draws for your opponent, 4 mana 5/5 with soft taunt due to growing threat.
Obviously, the dream scenario won't happen often, but unlike, for instance, Animated Armor, it has to be dealt with immediately, and unlike Questing Adventurer, its base stats aren't incredibly weak for the cost.
Daring Reporter could be very good. It will be a 4/4 before your opponent gets to do anything about it, and if they leave it then it will grow every turn. I compare it to Shade of Naxxramas, but the buff happens at the start of their turn rather than the start of yours. However, it is a bit of a risk, and cards that need to survive a turn to get value are often bad, so maybe it will be bad.
Reddit really is at its worst right before an expansion. So streamer x after 22 hours of streaming exhausted and frustrated loses three in a row with rogue and now the circlejerk starts. We need a rogue designer insight, we want old blade flurry back (wtf ???) and rogue is the new priest. These polarized opinions really crack me up. I'm wondering if these people really were around when blade flurry was a thing. This card is up there for the most broken cards in the game and since its a classic or basic w/e limits rogue to ever get a weapon buff or good weapon again.
Rogue is completely fine. I prob played the most games with rogue in the last months. You have Malygos rogue, Burgle rogue and Auctioneer/Conceal rogue which are all viable and some of the more interesting and fun decks to play. Mill Rogue and Reno rogue are also kinda viable. With priest getting stronger rogue will get a boost as well.
Doesn't Blizzard also design sets way in advance (as in a year+)? So they cannot possibly predict the meta in advance. I also feel that some of the most recent sets was not designed with Standard rotation in mind . For example, why print Gorillabot A-3 when you will rotate out most of the useful mechs with the next set.
And yes, old Blade Flurry was really strong. It might as well have read "Your hero gains windfury this turn. Your weapon gains Deathrattle: Deal damage to all enemy minions equal to this weapon's attack"
On November 26 2016 19:31 Kenpark wrote: With priest getting stronger rogue will get a boost as well.
I am interested to hear why do you think priest are getting stronger?
Dragon Priest is getting stronger and thats about it.
This expansion will be pretty harsh on priest because Jade Mechanics has the potencial to push away all control priest decks other then Dragon.
Priest is receiving early game help as well as a good board clear. Potion of Madness could be excellent against aggro decks, and Dragonfire Potion will help any slow priest deck, even if it is not a dragon deck. It is an okay substitute for Lightbomb.
Moreover, we don't know if the Jade Golem mechanic will be any good. So far, a deck can include at most 11 cards that summon a Jade Golem. You would need to summon five Jade Golems before the next Jade Golem is too strong for Dragonfire Potion. However, Priest would still have Shadow Word: Death and Entomb (and even Mind Control) to deal with very big Jade Golems. And still Priest could play Ragnaros and Sylvanas which would be good against golems.
I think a deck with Jaraxxus would be much better against a control priest deck than a Jade Golem deck.
While it's clearly geared towards a more controlly N'Zoth Shaman deck, it doesn't do anything to change how Shaman as a class is just focused on minions that are big piles of stats. What they should be doing is coming up with more interesting ways to play off of totems and overload, and instead they just get super-undercosted threats, that frankly Druid should be getting, if anything. It doesn't make terribly much sense.
Also I'm immensely annoyed at their expressed stance on Rogue. No healing and no AoE means it's a class relegated to being bad any time Hunter sees play, and can never ever opt to play a control deck, because the tools will just never be there. I want to play more than just aggro and combo as Rogue, but they just don't seem interested. Their hero power is so disjointed, how can you give Rogues a hero power that causes so much self-inflicted damage, and then give them 0 options to heal back up from all that damage? It makes no sense, and makes Rogue feel broken. If their answer to this is that I'm the one who has a problem with Hearthstone, and Hearthstone itself is working as intended, then maybe I am barking up the wrong tree, and this design team isn't much better than SC2's. I hope they prove me wrong.
On November 26 2016 19:31 Kenpark wrote: Priest is receiving early game help as well as a good board clear. Potion of Madness could be excellent against aggro decks, and Dragonfire Potion will help any slow priest deck, even if it is not a dragon deck. It is an okay substitute for Lightbomb.
Potion of madness isn't exactly as good as you believe. There are very few 2/x creatures on meta and those minions are not getting removed by its effect alone most of the time.
Dragonfire Potion won't work as a consistent removal outside Dragon Decks.
Some examples: - Spell mage: Does not kill Azure Drake which is a big threat - Malygos Druid: Arcane Golens - C'thun Druid: Most things survives except Thaurissan - Dragon Warrior: Almost useless - Control Warrior: Useless - Zoo: Works fine - Hunter: Decent but Hunter has too many D.rattles. Same problen Lighbomb had back in naxx. - Rogue: Very good - Shaman: Very good - Priest: USELESS against Dragon Priest, and meh against all other control decks.
Dragonfire Potion is fine in Dragon decks as a tempo card to ensure dragons stick long enough to close the game and thats about it. It won't be near as fexible like Lightbomb once was.
I understand the argument that every card is on a spectrum, and some cards must be more op than others. But does anyone really look at White Eyes/The Storm Guardian, and think "wow, that's just what the game needed?" There's no exciting interaction, it's just a minion with crazy value.
On November 27 2016 23:09 Schelim wrote: the first body is almost on curve itself. pretty nuts.
Which isn't good enough. This card is really, really good against other control decks. With ancestral and reincarnate, you can delay fatigue. And Shaman can clear alright.
On November 27 2016 11:53 NewSunshine wrote: Also I'm immensely annoyed at their expressed stance on Rogue. No healing and no AoE means it's a class relegated to being bad any time Hunter sees play, and can never ever opt to play a control deck, because the tools will just never be there. I want to play more than just aggro and combo as Rogue, but they just don't seem interested. Their hero power is so disjointed, how can you give Rogues a hero power that causes so much self-inflicted damage, and then give them 0 options to heal back up from all that damage? It makes no sense, and makes Rogue feel broken. If their answer to this is that I'm the one who has a problem with Hearthstone, and Hearthstone itself is working as intended, then maybe I am barking up the wrong tree, and this design team isn't much better than SC2's. I hope they prove me wrong.
To play devil's advocate here, I personally feel that Rouge if any class is very tricky to balance correctly. You cannot ignore Preparation when designing spells. That doesn't mean make them useless without it, but you need to have it in mind. Rogue also has pretty good burst damage potential, and you cannot ignore that as well.
I am all for Rogue getting heals, but I am a bit hesitant on AoEs. I know this isn't going to be popular, but playing against the old Blade Flurry was not funny at all imho. Also, isn't Rogue the only class that has been featured in all Blizzcon winners lineups?
On November 27 2016 11:53 NewSunshine wrote: Also I'm immensely annoyed at their expressed stance on Rogue. No healing and no AoE means it's a class relegated to being bad any time Hunter sees play, and can never ever opt to play a control deck, because the tools will just never be there. I want to play more than just aggro and combo as Rogue, but they just don't seem interested. Their hero power is so disjointed, how can you give Rogues a hero power that causes so much self-inflicted damage, and then give them 0 options to heal back up from all that damage? It makes no sense, and makes Rogue feel broken. If their answer to this is that I'm the one who has a problem with Hearthstone, and Hearthstone itself is working as intended, then maybe I am barking up the wrong tree, and this design team isn't much better than SC2's. I hope they prove me wrong.
To play devil's advocate here, I personally feel that Rouge if any class is very tricky to balance correctly. You cannot ignore Preparation when designing spells. That doesn't mean make them useless without it, but you need to have it in mind. Rogue also has pretty good burst damage potential, and you cannot ignore that as well.
I am all for Rogue getting heals, but I am a bit hesitant on AoEs. I know this isn't going to be popular, but playing against the old Blade Flurry was not funny at all imho. Also, isn't Rogue the only class that has been featured in all Blizzcon winners lineups?
And I'll be the first person to say the old Blade Flurry was broken as shit. But what made it broken wasn't the fact that it was an AoE spell, what made it broken was that it was AoE, and face damage, and it only cost 2 mana. There's nothing inherently broken about Rogue receiving an AoE spell, and the fact remains that if you try to play any kind of Rogue that isn't aggro or Miracle, you will feel that lack of AoE big time. Same with healing. Like the cards Shaman is getting, it's possible to get new cards that don't work in faster decks, because though White Eyes is powerful, it's not something you're going to profit from much if you don't plan on going late game. Same with their new healer. Hell, even putting the effect on a minion sidesteps the design space occupied by Preparation and Auctioneer. There are ways to make these cards. Blizzard just doesn't want to.
That would be helpful in Druid or Rogue without this awkward condition. but you need to include those crappy buff cards +2+2 Taunt spell or +4 att in order to clear house.
As it is it looks more useful in a Grimy Goons deck probably? But Pala has better ways with their comboclears.
Why even make this a Legendary, Blizzard getting greedy on this Exp.
On November 28 2016 13:03 Draconicfire wrote: Combos well with Power Overwhelming.
4 Mana 2 cards-combo, why would you include this in a Zoodeck ? Control has Shadowflame, a 4 Mana one card boardclear plus that new heavy spell. Warlock is truly no child of sorrow in terms of AoE.
On November 28 2016 12:57 Inzan1ty wrote: That would be helpful in Druid or Rogue without this awkward condition. but you need to include those crappy buff cards +2+2 Taunt spell or +4 att in order to clear house.
As it is it looks more useful in a Grimy Goons deck probably? But Pala has better ways with their comboclears.
Why even make this a Legendary, Blizzard getting greedy on this Exp.
Well, maybe they are hesitant to make a neutral board clear. That's one reason to make it legendary. That way decks can only have one, and it is a rather unique effect for a neutral so far in the game. Of course there are other neutrals that deal AoE damage, but this is the first one-sided effect as far as I know.
Aside from that, your assessment seems to be that it's not even that good. Every set has bad legendaries. The implication that Blizzard is getting greedy on this expansion seems baseless to me, at least in the context of this card.
On November 28 2016 13:04 Inzan1ty wrote:
Get prepared for the big card dump today folks
Did they say they're going to reveal the rest of the cards today? I've heard that, but I haven't seen any reason why people might think that.
Well Corrupted Seer is a Rare, high costs but a (small) AoE Battlecry, downside obv. that it also hits your own minions, unless you run Murlocs. Epic would have been just fine for Sally imo.
Sergeant Sally combos very well with Shadowflame as well. Then it's effect triggers twice with a deathrattle-check in-between. Might see play in some Renolock decks.
On November 28 2016 07:44 Kickboxer wrote: why do they give shaman these cards what is wrong with them
I'm really hoping that all the new sick Shaman cards promote an entirely different archetype, and don't in any way increase the power level of the existing Shaman meta-defining lists.
From the looks of it, despite my opinion that Devolve provides mid-range Shaman with a card to counter all its counters, White Eyes, Jinyu Waterspeaker and the three Jade cards seem to be solid options for a more late-game, value Shaman list, and won't see any play in the dominant Shaman decks we all know and hate.
On November 29 2016 00:47 Inzan1ty wrote: Warlock and Warrior legendarys still to come, as well as a chunk of neutrals, few classcards and the official release date.
so I am watching Frodan and i hear supercool, awesome and i play against shaman on ladder. Nobody is buying your crap and you are not cool with the balanco fiascos you are doing over and over again .
On November 29 2016 03:06 Solmyr wrote: so I am watching Frodan and i hear supercool, awesome and i play against shaman on ladder. Nobody is buying your crap and you are not cool with the balanco fiascos you are doing over and over again .
The only annoying thing about him is that he plays terrible. I know it´s supposed to show off the cards but at least put SOME effort in it. Now it´s like this: Matt is suggesting something and Frodan is like : "Nah I rather make this terrible play that completely screws my tempo". Nothing against him but thats is really annoying. How is this guy a caster? Also his Mic is way too loud.
The new Taunts are crazy. I think taunt Warrior will be a thing. Maybe not Top tier but Im sure it´s solid.
Jade Golem Might have been better than I initially thought. Will wonder how this looks like when decks are polished though. December 1st is the release date!
Hobart Grappelhammer: Not a bad card, but loses value if it isn't played early. Naga Corsair: Better than nothing 4-drop for weapon and pirate classes. Wrathion: Maybe for dragon-based decks. A weaker Curator otherwise at first sight Public Defender: We get it Blizzard, you want us to play Taunt Warrior Ancient of Blossoms: Filler common. Not a garbage one though Freezing Potion: Hard to judge. Really dependent on what else is in the deck. Smuggler's Crate: Nice addition to Beast hunter. Hidden Cache: A good hunter secret. Not sure it is worth running over other hunter secrets. Genzo, the Shark: Good for aggressive decks to refill their hand Defias Cleaner: Tech card against deathrattle decks Cryomancer: A bit weird card. Not worth running over other 5-drops in Mage imho. Greater Arcane Missiles: Maybe a good addition to reno mage decks. Also decent to get from Cabalist's Tome. Cool animaiton though Jade Behemoth: A decent card for Jade Golem Druid decks Blastcrystal Minion: Maybe a good card for Renolock in the late-game Kabal Trafficker: Decent 6-drop. Better in Wild Gadgetzan Socialite: Better than nothing 2-drop Krul the Unshackled: If warlock can afford saving demons in their hand then this is preety good.
On November 29 2016 03:48 Piledriver wrote: Are you fucking kidding me with those jade golems. Like what?
Yeah jade Decks seemto be really OP.
Frodan played better in the following games he won 3 games. Just the first game annoyed me a bit.
Well the expansion seems nice. There seems to be a lot of playable cards. Grimy goons are my favourite so far, I love buffing Minions. But Im still concerned about Jade Golems. But it also looks like every gang has a way to beat the others, but you need a lot of tools for it. This Expansion might be a pain for newer players. We will see. Im exited anyways.
jade golems looked good, but also looked extremely slow. i think an aggro vs. jade golem deck will look pretty one sided whereas jade golem vs. control deck will favor jade golems.
Wrathion looks incredible for any dragon deck. For 6 mana you get a 4/5 with taunt that draws at least one card, and maybe a 50% chance of a second (and a small chance of more cards). Dragon decks are often weak at 6-mana and only have Azure Drake for draw so I think Wrathion would be an automatic pick.
Surprisingly nothing else as broken as Doppelgangster and Jade Idol. There are quite a few "experimental cards" but overall only Rogue badly got the shaft, while everyone else got new tools to play around with.
I've always hated playing against Miracle or Malygos, but this is still a real shame, Blizzard wants to enable 'Stealth Rogue' but even a Hearthstone beginner can already forecast that this just won't be viable and will see no competitive play.
Yeah, I predict that people will immediately start playing around with Jade Golem decks, and people will become frustrated and eventually turn to aggro for the solution. Curving out aggressively will do well against Jade Golems; As they are getting a 2/3 and a 2/2 golem, you are hitting face for 4 and playing a 5/5 while buffing minions in your hand for future turns.
Existing control decks won't be able to handle all the Jade Golems, and control isn't even that favored against aggro, so control decks as we know them will cease to exist. RIP Tank Up Warrior.
Kazakus / Reno decks seem fun, but I'm not sure how they are supposed to handle Jade Golems, which I expect to be very popular. Even the stronger board clears that are coming in this set stop working eventually. And these types of decks seem even more vulnerable to aggressive curves than Jade Golem decks.
I am getting the same vibes from Jade Golems that I got when C'thun was first shown in action. Remember when the game would come down to who would draw their C'thun first?
I still dont see how Jade decks are any good. The druid got Wild Growth and a free Nourish and it took still ages to win the game. The Paladin deck also seemed pretty weird. Kinda control/buff without any good minions to buff. Reno Lock is probably the first deck I wanna build. Kazakus looks really strong to me. Even the 5 mana variant which will be prob used the most. Usually games slow down a lot the first weeks.
greater healing potion heals only yourself or your own minions. so it cant be used as an OTK. unless you are committing suicide. can you imagine doing 24 points of damage with three cards and 10 mana (unreduced)?
On November 29 2016 08:27 dAPhREAk wrote: greater healing potion heals only yourself or your own minions. so it cant be used as an OTK. unless you are committing suicide. can you imagine doing 24 points of damage with three cards and 10 mana (unreduced)?
On November 29 2016 08:27 dAPhREAk wrote: greater healing potion heals only yourself or your own minions. so it cant be used as an OTK. unless you are committing suicide. can you imagine doing 24 points of damage with three cards and 10 mana (unreduced)?
I could. But then you crushed my dreams.
;-)
with flash heal, it would be 34 points of damage with five cards and 12 mana (so would need to be reduced). thats insane. imagine the rage! with velen the prior turn, it would be 68!
Velen + Potion of Greater can't even be combo'ed unless after Emperor. But then it replaces Reno pretty much.
Shadowpriest with Shadowform, Velen, Potion of Greater, Raza The Chained, Embrace the Shadow, Flash Heal and Mind Blast is certainly at least worth a try in a fun deck. Don't expect a decent winrate though. I hardly get like 5 cards together to pull off an OTK.
Dragonfire Potion might help to stall out more games now though. There are still tools missing which this set didn't deliver to make Velen truely viable.
I'm really interested to see how Sylvanas holds up after all these cards come out.
On the one hand, I think she's one of the few really strong answers a slow deck can have against the growing threat of Jade Golems. On the other hand, there are now two 5 damage board clears which can undermine her efficiency, and two more reasonably strong silence effects (5/5 for 5 with silence for Priest, and a neutral 5/7 for 6 that silences a deathrattle) that answer her very well.
On November 29 2016 10:47 Dromar wrote: I'm really interested to see how Sylvanas holds up after all these cards come out.
On the one hand, I think she's one of the few really strong answers a slow deck can have against the growing threat of Jade Golems. On the other hand, there are now two 5 damage board clears which can undermine her efficiency, and two more reasonably strong silence effects (5/5 for 5 with silence for Priest, and a neutral 5/7 for 6 that silences a deathrattle) that answer her very well.
Also Bomb Squad and (memes aside) the new rager card.
I am actually glad that Sylvanas is getting some counters, as I feel that you could almost slot her into any slower deck deck for a really powerful Deathrattle at best, or pseudo board-clear at worse.
On November 29 2016 08:27 dAPhREAk wrote: greater healing potion heals only yourself or your own minions. so it cant be used as an OTK. unless you are committing suicide. can you imagine doing 24 points of damage with three cards and 10 mana (unreduced)?
I could. But then you crushed my dreams.
;-)
with flash heal, it would be 34 points of damage with five cards and 12 mana (so would need to be reduced). thats insane. imagine the rage! with velen the prior turn, it would be 68!
On November 29 2016 06:04 Kenpark wrote: I still dont see how Jade decks are any good. The druid got Wild Growth and a free Nourish and it took still ages to win the game. The Paladin deck also seemed pretty weird. Kinda control/buff without any good minions to buff. Reno Lock is probably the first deck I wanna build. Kazakus looks really strong to me. Even the 5 mana variant which will be prob used the most. Usually games slow down a lot the first weeks.
These are my thoughts exactly.
Watching Realz play the Jade Rogue the following game seemed to show an alternative, less consistent side to the Jade mechanic, though the Rogue Jade cards are obviously a LOT weaker than Druid.
What's also interesting is the matchups on stream. For instance, Realz' Hunter Goons deck got wrecked by all the freeze mechanics of Frodan's mage, but I strongly suspect would have run the Druid deck over very quickly. The slower build of that Paladin deck, and some of the very strange card choices, allowed Frodan's Jade Druid to get miles ahead. Combined with the batshit insane draw that Frodan had, you would think the game would have been half as long.
I agree with what others have said here about the return of more aggressive styles of deck, and I'm really intrigued to see how a taunt Warrior would work.
On November 29 2016 10:47 Dromar wrote: I'm really interested to see how Sylvanas holds up after all these cards come out.
On the one hand, I think she's one of the few really strong answers a slow deck can have against the growing threat of Jade Golems. On the other hand, there are now two 5 damage board clears which can undermine her efficiency, and two more reasonably strong silence effects (5/5 for 5 with silence for Priest, and a neutral 5/7 for 6 that silences a deathrattle) that answer her very well.
Sylv is usually one of the great comeback mechanics slower decks have to fight for board. Usually the decision is go all face and risk to get the game turned completely turned around on the next turn or trade your whole board in when facing Sylv.
So the board clears arent a big problem since you usually play her when you are behind anyway and are fine with a clean board. If anything survives you even steal sth. The 5/7 is interesting. I think Trump pointed out its the only card that can trade up vs Highmane. If hunter is strong this could see some play, 5-7 body is obv great but the 6 slot is also ultra strong. Priest 5/5 is a one of in Reno imo. You have Entomb for Sylv, Highmane and stuff.
So ye I think Sylv will still be auto include in most slower decks. IF Jade becomes a thing slower N'Zoth decks also get stronger. Druid/Rogue/Shaman have a hard time vs N'Zoth. It is ofc no coincidence the classes without universal board clear got the Jade mechanic. You can have unlimited big golems all you want if Tirion, Sylv + a few extras come down in one turn. Maybe eve Eadric the Pure will see some play.
Man, I go away on vacation and they dump all the new cards. Nice surprise for me.
So when people talk about Jade Golems wrecking control match-ups, they just mean the Druid version right? Because the Shaman and Rogue cards don't look like you can make the Jade Golem Godzilla decks people are worried about (although I do think they can throw in Golem cards for their control decks).
I'm not really sure how Rogue is going to work out... all that Stealth focus and Streetwise Investigator is printed as a tech card. Does Blizz really expect Stealth Rogue to be that good? Could be a good sign pointing to their internal testing of Stealth Rogue or just something to strangle the archetype before it can be tested out, we'll see.
If I had more gold/dust I would be excited to try out Demonlock, that looks pretty fun. Krul seems to play well towards Handlock too, not just collecting a lot of Demons to dump, but collecting the ones with really bad Battlecries lol. That's probably too slow though and you'll just use him to drop an extra Demon or two.
Another deck I want to try out is Valet Mage. Manic Soulcaster to cycle Valets and Kabal Crystal Runner for above-curve threats seem to fit nicely and would give it a more minion focus, which is how I'd prefer to play anyways (typing that out already makes me think this variant will be a dud lol).
On November 29 2016 21:20 Solmyr wrote: The game will never change, only rng op and grind to legend, this is the only way.
P.S. Do I sound like person with personal disorders?
I feel the same way. The new Hunter and Paladin decks are curvestone incarnate and the Jade Idol card just ruins control decks.
I don't think Jade Idol will change much. It is best against the very slow decks, but such decks already struggled against N'Zoth and C'Thun (especially with Doomcaller). Now most control decks run N'Zoth, and the one that springs to mind that doesn't is C'Thun Warrior.
Jade Idol may help a Jade Golem deck beat a 'no win con' deck but they are very rare now. Druid doesn't have the mass removal to deal with N'Zoth so you would probably want to kill any N'Zoth deck before they play N'Zoth and Jade Idol does not help you much there.
More generally, imo Jade Golem decks won't be very good. I would not bet on that though. I think they will struggle against aggressive decks, and would need good draw luck to beat curve-out decks. I think the Jade Golem mechanic is like the Inspire mechanic, where they are worried themed decks will be OP so have made most of the cards weak.
Focusing on druid: they have 5 Jade Golem cards and one of those is a legendary. Of those 5 cards, one is Jade Idol which you would not want to play early as a Jade Golem unless desperate. Jade Blossom is 3 mana and gives you an empty mana crystal, which doesn't synergise well with the 4-mana Jade Spirit. There are actually no 5-mana cards for druid to summon a Jade Golem. But then both Aya Blackpaw and Jade Behemoth are 6-mana. This means it will be very difficult to curve out well on Jade Golem cards.
So to not die against aggressive and curve-out decks you would need a good early game from your other cards. Then you are relying on Jade Golems to kill slow decks, but slow decks are rare and should be able to easily manage your early Jade Golems so it would come down to when the control deck draws their finisher.
All in all, it seems to me like a Jade Golem Druid deck would not be any better than other druid decks. And no matter what you wanted your deck to do, you could find a better deck than a Jade Golem Druid deck to do it.
On November 30 2016 08:39 Hellonslaught wrote: There is not enough jade cards to be a thing.
I would agree with that except the legendary summons 2 which I think might make them good enough for druid and maybe shaman though I don't see them working in rouge(2 cards instead of 3 and one of them requires combo :/) I don't expect to see anything bigger than a 5/5 from them in a normal game though.
I highly doubt Jade minions will see much play in Shaman - the class that demands to dominate everything nowadays.
Instead Doppelgangster with Evolve as well as White Eyes are gonna be prioritized candidates. Anything that already seems broken on paper without prior testing most likely is. Add the other broken cr*p that is currently run in Midrange and there are no more slots left for anything slow and effectively less competitive.
Jade mechanic will eventually get measured by Druid, the class that wasn't given new tools to deal with Aggrodecks.
Although I've tried to remain optimistic earlier but after seeing the entire set I also can't imagine this whole thing to work out within a fast meta environment.
Hunter being fast by default and when smashing curve, will do better than people expect, and probably be the only class that will give Shaman a run for the money.
I am pretty hopeful that the expansion at least will change the decks that are played. I was looking at the whole set and it was hard to find cards that fit in current decks. Kun maybe for druid, Crystalweaver for Zoo, which could be a sleeper op card. I mean Dark Iron Dwarf is played in Zoo for comparison and Crystalweaver is kind of similar. Zoo has alot of demons these days and the synergy with Imp Gang Boss is pretty nuts on curve since the 1/1 are also demons.
Midrange shaman basically gets nothing, same for tempo mage, control warrior, (current) rogue in general or the paladin control decks. Instead we get these new mechanics that remain to be seen how good they are.
So that leaves us with Hunter for the meta decks. Some sticky beasts that should help them. Rat Pack looks really strong.
For new decks I can imagine a pretty strong aggro/tempo warrior deck with weapons, buffs and chargers. The buff cards seem to be able to generate a lot of tempo if you can dump your hand quick with lets say Southsea Deckhand and Kor'kron Elite. Maybe pirate variant.
(Dragon) Priest gets a lot of love. Drakonid Operative is pretty nuts and Dragonfire Potion should crush decks like Shaman. Pint-Size Potion for sure will see play and Potion of Madness probably as well. Wrathion looks alright.
Last but not least Reno decks. Kazakus could be the strongest card in the set in a vacuum. Reno demon lock might be a thing. Abyssal Enforcer is basicaly Hellfire with a 6/6 for 3 attached to it and Hellfire is a staple in every warlock control deck since forever. Might be too slow, but again looks good vs Shaman.
Since the new expansion releases at the start of december, it might be a good idea to wait with playing the game on release day until the expansion has released, as you might get some of the new cards from your ranked rewards
On December 01 2016 02:23 Hellonslaught wrote: I think its the first time i am not a bit excited about ANY of the new cards
I thought Whispers was pretty boring, the most so of any expansion thus far honestly. This looks more like GvG to me, where it's trying more powerful cards, that also want you to build new decks around them. Whispers had the old gods themselves, but the way you built a deck for them was just uninteresting to me, and most of the cards were pretty weak. At this point I'm less excited about flashy cards and more so for ones that look strong.
On December 01 2016 01:43 Inzan1ty wrote: Anywhere confirmed that we gonna get the newest packs from Arena right away?
Can't get all that much from 2500g but might stretch it to 3500 value with a fair bit of luck.
As long as you don't complete your run before the set if officially released, you should get MSG reward packs.
From the Adv Rulebook:
The guaranteed card pack given each run will always be from the most recently released expansion set. If the player earns a second card pack from the same run, they will always be from a different Standard format set.
71 packs for me initially (pre-order + 21 from saved-up gold). And since I'm in Europa I'll get to open them tomorrow. But if that means stable servers so be it.
I'm a bit disappointed that most of the cards that look good are at least rare. There are very few commons that look playable. Blizzard seem worse regarding this now than previously. GvG had a lot of strong commons; Piloted Shredder, Antique Healbot, Explosive Sheep, Shielded Minibot, Tinker's Sharpsword Oil, Velen's Chosen, Crackle, Flamecannon, Darkbomb, and then there were all the mechs so you could make a good mech deck with mainly commons (Mechwarper, Annoy-o-tron, Tinkertown Technician, Spider Tank, Cogmaster, Clockwork Gnome, Mechanical Yeti).
I doubt the commons from Gadgetzan will be as good overall.
Edit: Battlenet says "LATEST EXPANSION NOW AVAILABLE" when I am in EU and it isn't. That is tormenting people
I think some sort of Jade Golem control Shaman might be pretty ok. You don't have Druid's ability to have infinite Golems, but the ones you get are pretty decent overall.
On December 01 2016 21:56 Hearken wrote: But you're Mr. Priest??!!
Not excited for Reno/Kazakus/Raza Shadow Priest?
Or Dragon Priest?
It won't be strong enough.
On December 01 2016 23:23 Enjun wrote: Other than Brian Kibler most people that enjoy priest overall are pretty bored by dragon priest.
Spot on.
On December 02 2016 03:41 dAPhREAk wrote: wonder how you came to that conclusion. dragon priest is the only priest deck i find fun, and priest is my most played deck.
Dragon Priest is a tempo deck, and I find tempostone boring. I like to pilot decks that requires some decision making / planning ahead rather then just to play everything on curve.
On December 02 2016 04:38 The_Templar wrote: I already opened my 24 packs -.-
Ouch. I don't know how Blizzard will compensate people for this (if at all). Lots of damned if they do, damned if they don't possibilities I can think of
On December 02 2016 04:38 The_Templar wrote: I already opened my 24 packs -.-
Ouch. I don't know how Blizzard will compensate people for this (if at all). Lots of damned if they do, damned if they don't possibilities I can think of
I'm very conflicted on whether to not to open packs and hope for compensation or not...
No no no, this looks worse than patron. Patron at least required some skill and figuring out how to play. This is just, spam golems and win? And I still wait for some doppelgangster.
Yeah if they offer full dust refund on the triclass cards to make up for this, opening them now would be very lucrative. I'm a bit torn myself due to this, especially since the triclass legendaries are relatively high on my list of cards to get.
On December 02 2016 04:38 The_Templar wrote: I already opened my 24 packs -.-
Ouch. I don't know how Blizzard will compensate people for this (if at all). Lots of damned if they do, damned if they don't possibilities I can think of
I'm very conflicted on whether to not to open packs and hope for compensation or not...
On December 02 2016 05:49 Solmyr wrote: No no no, this looks worse than patron. Patron at least required some skill and figuring out how to play. This is just, spam golems and win? And I still wait for some doppelgangster.
Eh, I feel like it's just control decks taken to the extreme. It takes a reasonably long time to get to massive golems, fast decks just do the same thing they do against control - kill them early or lose in the later turns. Other control decks likely will have to play more aggressively to beat the Druid before they get rolling.
So the bug will prob not be fixed till EU open. What do you guys think of the idea to open till the first legendary in hopes to have higher chance on Kazakus ? I prob wont have that many doubles triples etc by then and he is my most wanted legendary anyway. Aya is fine to I guess since she is must play if I ever wanna play Jade. She is like Twin Emps for C Thun.
Kazakus doesn't look that great tbh I'd go for Aya and the Warrior legendary. No matter what you want, there is probably an decreased chance to pull epics but an highly increased chance to get spammed with those tri-class commons: I'll wait till this is sorted out, also checking on Arena rewards. '
Well the idea is to have a higher chance at Kazakus and Aya while I still can. Both are way way above average. And Kazakus looks pretty amazing. Flamestrike + summon 5/5 for five and I love Reno decks.
I guess this is how Trump is making America great again Oh well, congratz to the US guys. Shitty situation all around for Blizzard and this was likely their best solution.
EDIT: Why aren't we live in EU yet? Did EU just get double-fucked?
So it was rng how much value you got from packs depending you play eu or na? Well at least they are consistent in their philosophy. OP>RNG>GRIND that is the only way.
I am not convinced yet that Jade Idol druid will be a broken deck from my (albeit limited) experience
*The deck is pretty draw-dependent, and even then you have to balance summoning Jade Golems vs. ramping *Jade Idol is not very good in the early stages
The tri-class discover cards is really strong, especially Jade Lotus (since it trades with most things surrounding it mana-wise)
...in purely control matchups where they can draw to the point only Jade Idols remain.
The reason it's not dominating though is because, as everyone is discovering and many predicted, pirate warrior is obscenely strong and easy to play and will rush most decks down easily. Plus Eboladin is back and actually turning out to be one of the more reliable ways to fend off pirate warrior, but unless druid draws the nuts the Eboladin matchup goes south really quickly. I dearly hope people refine something like a new priest deck or updated renolock to try and deal with this bullshit, I'm not playing 4 months of exclusively face decks only tempered by the fact that curvestone shaman still exists.
Meh complete fail my opening. Only 3 legendaries in 62 packs, the warrior, Madame Goya and golden Sally.
Ebola Paladin, Pirate Warrior, Jade Druid/ Miracle Jade Druid and Dragon Priest seem to be the decks of choice for now. Owning Priests with Miracle Jade is fun for 5 games but gets old really quick. Gadgetzan is just a very problematic card. It i also one of the more exciting cards ofc.
I agree though that Jade Druid will be a big thing once a good list is figured out. Aya is strong as fuck and a lot of mu's you just auto win. I think games that go for fatigue are a thing of the past. Blizzard catering to the casuals and keeping games in a certain timeframe.
That is pretty good though, remember that the pity timer is 1 legendary for about 35-40 packs, and you've got a golden one on top, that usually can take up to 300 packs or more. I have followed Kripp and there seems to be an insane amount of drops for Sally. Dude managed to pull her like 6 times lol.
On December 02 2016 21:18 Daray wrote: So jade druid will win any control/fatigue match up with no contest?
The more combo oriented version with double Gad lots of draw/cycle seem to just run over control decks in their current form I guess. If not under pressure it can just draw its whole deck and get like 3/4 full boards with really big minions. This deck might be too slow though. You can easily just lose on turn 5 vs Paladin or Warrior.
It easily beats the current control decks that try to fight the faster Warrior and Paladin decks yes.
Havent played the more Jade card version with like the taunt, Aya. and stuff. The combo version only runs the ramp cards + one Idol.
On December 02 2016 21:18 Daray wrote: So jade druid will win any control/fatigue match up with no contest?
The more combo oriented version with double Gad lots of draw/cycle seem to just run over control decks in their current form I guess. If not under pressure it can just draw its whole deck and get like 3/4 full boards with really big minions. This deck might be too slow though. You can easily just lose on turn 5 vs Paladin or Warrior.
It easily beats the current control decks that try to fight the faster Warrior and Paladin decks yes.
Havent played the more Jade card version with like the taunt, Aya. and stuff. The combo version only runs the ramp cards + one Idol.
It also is a pretty slow process to get to the Idol chaining, though that can be speed up a bit if you run the more sketchy cards like Jade Behemoth or Jade Spirit. So maybe here is room for a faster deck with a combo win condition. I might try the Combo C'thun warrior that got phased out due to Shaman. That might also do all right against Piratewarriors and Floodpaladins.
After playing some more I have to say that we can pretty much take zero conclusion of the first few days. Just tested the new 5-4 +1/+1 to demons in a little modified zoo and well run over any druid pretty much. Not even close games. People are just playing whats new but some of the old decks remain really strong. So far I only crafted Kazakus who is as awesome as I thought, but prob gonna hold back now for the real decks to emerge. But Kazakus is nice. Deal 5 damage, resurrect 2 minions is pretty insane tempo on 5. The spell for 5 is prob the best in my experience so far, unless you need sth on the spot for 1.
On December 02 2016 21:18 Daray wrote: So jade druid will win any control/fatigue match up with no contest?
It beats up on the control decks without a proactive option. N'zoth decks might have some game though. My fear though is that those kind of decks will be pushed out by the ridiculous openers aggro decks can have now, whether it's paladin or warrior, rather than a pretty slow combo deck.
There are a lot of explosive openers now, tempered by a lot of explosive mid-game turns. So the game definitely seems faster, both in how fast face decks deal damage and how fast they run out of steam against other decks.
Yesterday, Trump had a T7 Don'Hancho into T8 Bran + Dopplegansters. Even ignoring the fact that both cards were in his hand getting buffed all game. You just can't deal with that short of your own OTK.
Speaking of Bran, I've been trying him in Jade Shaman to get some more Golems out. Anyone try that out? I'm not sure exactly what I'm doing, but it's fun lol.
I bought the 50 and got Knuckles (hunter legendary) and Madame Gaya and then used my saved gold / quests for 19 more.. 0 additional legendary.. pretty sad with the results
I've not bought packs at all, got one from an arena run and the free ones they give. Spent a bit of dust for a fun jade rogue deck, it's ok with raptor and shadowcaster. Add loot hoarder for more raptor synergy and overall draw and it seems to do fine outside of hunter. There are a few cards I can swap to tune the deck but it's far from being the disaster everyone predicted.
About 25 packs opened, Priest legendary + a couple epics. One thing is as sure as 'Amen' in church. Abysal Enforcer is hands down the strongest card in Arena.
On December 03 2016 12:26 Inzan1ty wrote: About 25 packs opened, Priest legendary + a couple epics. One thing is as sure as 'Amen' in church. Abysal Enforcer is hands down the strongest card in Arena.
Can confirm. I just watched two abyssal enforcers carry a very mediocre deck to 11-3. Kabal Talonpriest is ridiculously strong as well though.
I can make a hunter that beats aggro and loses to control, or a midrange hunter that loses to aggro, beats reno/jade but loses to D.Priest. There's just no winning.
On November 30 2016 20:20 Kenpark wrote: I am pretty hopeful that the expansion at least will change the decks that are played. I was looking at the whole set and it was hard to find cards that fit in current decks. Kun maybe for druid, Crystalweaver for Zoo, which could be a sleeper op card. I mean Dark Iron Dwarf is played in Zoo for comparison and Crystalweaver is kind of similar. Zoo has alot of demons these days and the synergy with Imp Gang Boss is pretty nuts on curve since the 1/1 are also demons.
Midrange shaman basically gets nothing, same for tempo mage, control warrior, (current) rogue in general or the paladin control decks. Instead we get these new mechanics that remain to be seen how good they are.
So that leaves us with Hunter for the meta decks. Some sticky beasts that should help them. Rat Pack looks really strong.
For new decks I can imagine a pretty strong aggro/tempo warrior deck with weapons, buffs and chargers. The buff cards seem to be able to generate a lot of tempo if you can dump your hand quick with lets say Southsea Deckhand and Kor'kron Elite. Maybe pirate variant.
(Dragon) Priest gets a lot of love. Drakonid Operative is pretty nuts and Dragonfire Potion should crush decks like Shaman. Pint-Size Potion for sure will see play and Potion of Madness probably as well. Wrathion looks alright.
Last but not least Reno decks. Kazakus could be the strongest card in the set in a vacuum. Reno demon lock might be a thing. Abyssal Enforcer is basicaly Hellfire with a 6/6 for 3 attached to it and Hellfire is a staple in every warlock control deck since forever. Might be too slow, but again looks good vs Shaman.
Not too far off with my predictions.
Right now Pirate and the Reno decks seem to be tier 1. Kazakus really is an insane card. You can get a 1 mana 2 damage aoe + x vs aggro or go for some big value with Brann double 10 drop in the control mirrors.
I crafted Raza playing Reno Warlock/Priest kinda crushing Pirate and having great fun in the mirrors. The meta finally got a big shift, I think Blizzard did a really good job this time.
Ok so just pulled Aya after Raza and feeling quite content now. Sorry to whoever got dealt the other end of luck pulling trash legs. Already crafted Hobart and it's gonna be Golden Patches for me now, just because he is the most stupid yet hilarous and awesome card ever. (or next to teh mighty Yoggster)
Also golden legs have a way better return to dust ratio, but since I'am not using real money I've selected only a few to be worthy golden for me (Tirion, Yogg, N'Zoth and now Patches)
If someone wants to stop me from doing this, do it now :D
4 wins for me in my first Warlock arena run. The first loss was because of my opponent having Gahz'rilla + activator the following turn, the others was ultimately because of poor draws early on. But yeah, Warlock can be really good in arena.
On December 07 2016 01:07 Inzan1ty wrote: Ok so just pulled Aya after Raza and feeling quite content now. Sorry to whoever got dealt the other end of luck pulling trash legs. Already crafted Hobart and it's gonna be Golden Patches for me now, just because he is the most stupid yet hilarous and awesome card ever. (or next to teh mighty Yoggster)
Also golden legs have a way better return to dust ratio, but since I'am not using real money I've selected only a few to be worthy golden for me (Tirion, Yogg, N'Zoth and now Patches)
If someone wants to stop me from doing this, do it now :D
Nah. I could see Patches getting nerfed so you'll get a dust refund if so. Go nuts!
Arena feels incredibly hard right now. I only got one deck with 7 wins the other ones all finished with 1 win or smth... ANd the deck felt actually really decent but everyone get so many nuts combos its ridiculous. And It feels like paladin has finally surpassed mage. The value you get from your hand now is insane
On December 07 2016 09:18 Gear 3rd wrote: Arena feels incredibly hard right now. I only got one deck with 7 wins the other ones all finished with 1 win or smth... ANd the deck felt actually really decent but everyone get so many nuts combos its ridiculous. And It feels like paladin has finally surpassed mage. The value you get from your hand now is insane
Never thought I'd say it but I think mage is actually mid-tier now.
On December 07 2016 09:18 Gear 3rd wrote: Arena feels incredibly hard right now. I only got one deck with 7 wins the other ones all finished with 1 win or smth... ANd the deck felt actually really decent but everyone get so many nuts combos its ridiculous. And It feels like paladin has finally surpassed mage. The value you get from your hand now is insane
Never thought I'd say it but I think mage is actually mid-tier now.
They can go for an extended stay in the priest shack.
On December 07 2016 01:07 Inzan1ty wrote: Ok so just pulled Aya after Raza and feeling quite content now. Sorry to whoever got dealt the other end of luck pulling trash legs. Already crafted Hobart and it's gonna be Golden Patches for me now, just because he is the most stupid yet hilarous and awesome card ever. (or next to teh mighty Yoggster)
Also golden legs have a way better return to dust ratio, but since I'am not using real money I've selected only a few to be worthy golden for me (Tirion, Yogg, N'Zoth and now Patches)
If someone wants to stop me from doing this, do it now :D
Nah. I could see Patches getting nerfed so you'll get a dust refund if so. Go nuts!
That's a good point. Whispers era Pirate Warrior was a pretty cheap deck to make. Adding Patches seems almost risk free while I hope to pull more of the new additions.
On December 07 2016 01:07 Inzan1ty wrote: Ok so just pulled Aya after Raza and feeling quite content now. Sorry to whoever got dealt the other end of luck pulling trash legs. Already crafted Hobart and it's gonna be Golden Patches for me now, just because he is the most stupid yet hilarous and awesome card ever. (or next to teh mighty Yoggster)
Also golden legs have a way better return to dust ratio, but since I'am not using real money I've selected only a few to be worthy golden for me (Tirion, Yogg, N'Zoth and now Patches)
If someone wants to stop me from doing this, do it now :D
Nah. I could see Patches getting nerfed so you'll get a dust refund if so. Go nuts!
I don't see how it could be nerfed without making it a completely different card, like they did with Warsong Commander. The only 'stats' you could remove would be the pirate tag and the charge, though the later doesn't seem so bad for most people ;-).
The meta really is polarized now. Either ultra aggressive Shaman/Warrior Pirate that try to kill before turn 6 or Reno control decks. There are many decks that can beat one, but lose really hard to the other. The pirate decks prob gonna stay since very easy to play and fast games
Yeah, it has been very frustrating trying to find decks which could deal with both. I've had a little success with hunter, but in the end, not really. Some with full cycle druid (i.e. only jade idol / jade blossom for jade golems - rest cycle pretty much like the Malygos druid (though I added 2xColdlight Oracle)). Cant really figure out what to climb with.
On December 08 2016 08:15 Ghostcom wrote: Yeah, it has been very frustrating trying to find decks which could deal with both. I've had a little success with hunter, but in the end, not really. Some with full cycle druid (i.e. only jade idol / jade blossom for jade golems - rest cycle pretty much like the Malygos druid (though I added 2xColdlight Oracle)). Cant really figure out what to climb with.
Yes its really hard to play anything else. The thing is with a lot of decks you dont have bad mu's vs either, you have almost unwinnable mu's vs either Reno Lock or Shaman/Warrior Pirate. A deck with taunts and heal/armor say taunt warrior or some weird priest with a lot of heal can win vs aggro but gets crushed 95% by the Reno decks.
Same for the other extreme. I played some Jade N'zoth Rogue. The Synergy with Aya and the new 1/1 deathrattle guy for rogue is amazing. But even with all the tempo cards in rogue's arsenal, there is no way to survive the face damage of Pirate warrior without any heal or taunts. You might just wanna concede or get really lucky with van Cleef in 1 out of 10 games and race them.
The only deck I feel comfortable right now if I care for my rank is Reno Lock. There is no I do this class quest now while climbing.
There is some potential in slower Shaman variants imo, but man is this meta unforgiving right now. Dont get me wrong its still better than Shamanstone and the Reno decks are really fun to play, but I guess you got my point.
On December 08 2016 10:46 Kenpark wrote: There is some potential in slower Shaman variants imo, but man is this meta unforgiving right now. Dont get me wrong its still better than Shamanstone and the Reno decks are really fun to play, but I guess you got my point.
100% agree.
Pirate decks are really strong; but a necessary evil.
I don't like the current meta being polarized but is much better then every single one after naxx.
On December 08 2016 08:15 Ghostcom wrote: Yeah, it has been very frustrating trying to find decks which could deal with both. I've had a little success with hunter, but in the end, not really. Some with full cycle druid (i.e. only jade idol / jade blossom for jade golems - rest cycle pretty much like the Malygos druid (though I added 2xColdlight Oracle)). Cant really figure out what to climb with.
Yes its really hard to play anything else. The thing is with a lot of decks you dont have bad mu's vs either, you have almost unwinnable mu's vs either Reno Lock or Shaman/Warrior Pirate. A deck with taunts and heal/armor say taunt warrior or some weird priest with a lot of heal can win vs aggro but gets crushed 95% by the Reno decks.
Same for the other extreme. I played some Jade N'zoth Rogue. The Synergy with Aya and the new 1/1 deathrattle guy for rogue is amazing. But even with all the tempo cards in rogue's arsenal, there is no way to survive the face damage of Pirate warrior without any heal or taunts. You might just wanna concede or get really lucky with van Cleef in 1 out of 10 games and race them.
The only deck I feel comfortable right now if I care for my rank is Reno Lock. There is no I do this class quest now while climbing.
There is some potential in slower Shaman variants imo, but man is this meta unforgiving right now. Dont get me wrong its still better than Shamanstone and the Reno decks are really fun to play, but I guess you got my point.
Take my scrub league take with a grain of salt, but slower Shaman gets crushed by Dragon Priest. Unless there's a slower deck than the midrange-Jade variants I've seen on hearthpwn.
On December 08 2016 08:15 Ghostcom wrote: Yeah, it has been very frustrating trying to find decks which could deal with both. I've had a little success with hunter, but in the end, not really. Some with full cycle druid (i.e. only jade idol / jade blossom for jade golems - rest cycle pretty much like the Malygos druid (though I added 2xColdlight Oracle)). Cant really figure out what to climb with.
Yes its really hard to play anything else. The thing is with a lot of decks you dont have bad mu's vs either, you have almost unwinnable mu's vs either Reno Lock or Shaman/Warrior Pirate. A deck with taunts and heal/armor say taunt warrior or some weird priest with a lot of heal can win vs aggro but gets crushed 95% by the Reno decks.
Same for the other extreme. I played some Jade N'zoth Rogue. The Synergy with Aya and the new 1/1 deathrattle guy for rogue is amazing. But even with all the tempo cards in rogue's arsenal, there is no way to survive the face damage of Pirate warrior without any heal or taunts. You might just wanna concede or get really lucky with van Cleef in 1 out of 10 games and race them.
The only deck I feel comfortable right now if I care for my rank is Reno Lock. There is no I do this class quest now while climbing.
There is some potential in slower Shaman variants imo, but man is this meta unforgiving right now. Dont get me wrong its still better than Shamanstone and the Reno decks are really fun to play, but I guess you got my point.
Take my scrub league take with a grain of salt, but slower Shaman gets crushed by Dragon Priest. Unless there's a slower deck than the midrange-Jade variants I've seen on hearthpwn.
That depends on the exact shaman build I think. But generally the priest is going to shit on you (and if you tech towards priest you'll get crushed by everything else).
I agree though, the meta is refreshing. I would've liked it to be a little less rock/paper/scissor (i.e. the counters are too strong imo), but outside of that I'm not really complaining. Just struggling to find a good deck
Excess Mana is an uncollectible druid spell card, obtained by playing Wild Growth, Pilfered Power or Astral Communion when they player already has 10 Mana Crystals...
Excess Mana is intended to provide a useful alternative effect for when playing a card with 10 Mana Crystals would otherwise provide no useful effect.[1]
For this reason, other cards such as Nourish or Grove Tender never produce Excess Mana, despite their ability to grant extra Mana Crystals, since they have alternative Choose One effects or additional effects that are still useful at 10 Mana Crystals.
Does anyone else feel a tad underwhelmed by the new cards? I played a few games, got my 6 free packs, and just nothing really jumped out as "wow, can't wait to make a deck trying that!" What's a fun deck to play to get past this? I have lots of dust...
It depends on what type of decks you enjoy playing. Renolock with Kazakus is pretty amazing. I've also enjoyed toying around with a Reno shadowpriest. Full cycle druid with Jade Idol was also interesting because of ramping not only crystals but also jade golems - it was incredibly satisfying to reach endgame with an auctioneer and a "empty" deck except for Jade Idols - swarming the board with 7,8,9,10,11,12/12 jade golems.
Currently trying to make a hunter deck that works and boy is ratpack good. The value of the card is insane.
I've actually had decent success with Reno Priest built into a dragon shell (Kazakus / Raza the Chained / Justicar Trueheart). Unfortunately my build will totally die when the standard rotation changes.
Also have had probably even more success with a fairly standard Jade Shaman. I can only recall losing to pirate warriors with a nut-draw and losing to a Priest because I d/c.
On December 08 2016 08:15 Ghostcom wrote: Yeah, it has been very frustrating trying to find decks which could deal with both. I've had a little success with hunter, but in the end, not really. Some with full cycle druid (i.e. only jade idol / jade blossom for jade golems - rest cycle pretty much like the Malygos druid (though I added 2xColdlight Oracle)). Cant really figure out what to climb with.
Yes its really hard to play anything else. The thing is with a lot of decks you dont have bad mu's vs either, you have almost unwinnable mu's vs either Reno Lock or Shaman/Warrior Pirate. A deck with taunts and heal/armor say taunt warrior or some weird priest with a lot of heal can win vs aggro but gets crushed 95% by the Reno decks.
Same for the other extreme. I played some Jade N'zoth Rogue. The Synergy with Aya and the new 1/1 deathrattle guy for rogue is amazing. But even with all the tempo cards in rogue's arsenal, there is no way to survive the face damage of Pirate warrior without any heal or taunts. You might just wanna concede or get really lucky with van Cleef in 1 out of 10 games and race them.
The only deck I feel comfortable right now if I care for my rank is Reno Lock. There is no I do this class quest now while climbing.
There is some potential in slower Shaman variants imo, but man is this meta unforgiving right now. Dont get me wrong its still better than Shamanstone and the Reno decks are really fun to play, but I guess you got my point.
Take my scrub league take with a grain of salt, but slower Shaman gets crushed by Dragon Priest. Unless there's a slower deck than the midrange-Jade variants I've seen on hearthpwn.
That depends on the exact shaman build I think. But generally the priest is going to shit on you (and if you tech towards priest you'll get crushed by everything else).
I agree though, the meta is refreshing. I would've liked it to be a little less rock/paper/scissor (i.e. the counters are too strong imo), but outside of that I'm not really complaining. Just struggling to find a good deck
The "rock/paper/scissors" with the hard counters is a bit frustrating. But many Hearthstone cards now are so good at what they do (except healing) that it is not worthwhile teching against certain decks but instead focusing on what your deck wants to do and hoping they don't kill you first. Maybe teching will become more useful once the meta settles down.
On December 08 2016 08:15 Ghostcom wrote: Yeah, it has been very frustrating trying to find decks which could deal with both. I've had a little success with hunter, but in the end, not really. Some with full cycle druid (i.e. only jade idol / jade blossom for jade golems - rest cycle pretty much like the Malygos druid (though I added 2xColdlight Oracle)). Cant really figure out what to climb with.
Yes its really hard to play anything else. The thing is with a lot of decks you dont have bad mu's vs either, you have almost unwinnable mu's vs either Reno Lock or Shaman/Warrior Pirate. A deck with taunts and heal/armor say taunt warrior or some weird priest with a lot of heal can win vs aggro but gets crushed 95% by the Reno decks.
Same for the other extreme. I played some Jade N'zoth Rogue. The Synergy with Aya and the new 1/1 deathrattle guy for rogue is amazing. But even with all the tempo cards in rogue's arsenal, there is no way to survive the face damage of Pirate warrior without any heal or taunts. You might just wanna concede or get really lucky with van Cleef in 1 out of 10 games and race them.
The only deck I feel comfortable right now if I care for my rank is Reno Lock. There is no I do this class quest now while climbing.
There is some potential in slower Shaman variants imo, but man is this meta unforgiving right now. Dont get me wrong its still better than Shamanstone and the Reno decks are really fun to play, but I guess you got my point.
Take my scrub league take with a grain of salt, but slower Shaman gets crushed by Dragon Priest. Unless there's a slower deck than the midrange-Jade variants I've seen on hearthpwn.
That depends on the exact shaman build I think. But generally the priest is going to shit on you (and if you tech towards priest you'll get crushed by everything else).
I agree though, the meta is refreshing. I would've liked it to be a little less rock/paper/scissor (i.e. the counters are too strong imo), but outside of that I'm not really complaining. Just struggling to find a good deck
The "rock/paper/scissors" with the hard counters is a bit frustrating. But many Hearthstone cards now are so good at what they do (except healing) that it is not worthwhile teching against certain decks but instead focusing on what your deck wants to do and hoping they don't kill you first. Maybe teching will become more useful once the meta settles down.
I think the idea of teching in the current state of Hearthstone is frankly an awful idea, and it hasn't much to do with the meta. As long as their philosophy dictates that tech cards are semi-vanilla minions with lukewarm effects, they're never going to do the job they're supposed to do. The way tech cards look, even in Mean Streets, you're wasting your time even thinking about them. If you're going to tech, it needs to be with your deck strategy, which goes a bit beyond merely teching. Tech cards need to be amazing against a particular deck, and bad against all others, whereas right now they're slightly below par against most decks, and only slightly above par against the target deck. They're not bold enough.
Well I guess it didnt take long for people to figure out what happens, when you just put the pirate package into the class with the strongest 1,2, drops and a 4 mana 7/7. The "new" shaman variant with Lava Burst and stuff got to be one of the fastest decks in the history of hearthstone. Flametongue is so insane in this deck with Patches.
On December 08 2016 08:15 Ghostcom wrote: Yeah, it has been very frustrating trying to find decks which could deal with both. I've had a little success with hunter, but in the end, not really. Some with full cycle druid (i.e. only jade idol / jade blossom for jade golems - rest cycle pretty much like the Malygos druid (though I added 2xColdlight Oracle)). Cant really figure out what to climb with.
Yes its really hard to play anything else. The thing is with a lot of decks you dont have bad mu's vs either, you have almost unwinnable mu's vs either Reno Lock or Shaman/Warrior Pirate. A deck with taunts and heal/armor say taunt warrior or some weird priest with a lot of heal can win vs aggro but gets crushed 95% by the Reno decks.
Same for the other extreme. I played some Jade N'zoth Rogue. The Synergy with Aya and the new 1/1 deathrattle guy for rogue is amazing. But even with all the tempo cards in rogue's arsenal, there is no way to survive the face damage of Pirate warrior without any heal or taunts. You might just wanna concede or get really lucky with van Cleef in 1 out of 10 games and race them.
The only deck I feel comfortable right now if I care for my rank is Reno Lock. There is no I do this class quest now while climbing.
There is some potential in slower Shaman variants imo, but man is this meta unforgiving right now. Dont get me wrong its still better than Shamanstone and the Reno decks are really fun to play, but I guess you got my point.
Take my scrub league take with a grain of salt, but slower Shaman gets crushed by Dragon Priest. Unless there's a slower deck than the midrange-Jade variants I've seen on hearthpwn.
That depends on the exact shaman build I think. But generally the priest is going to shit on you (and if you tech towards priest you'll get crushed by everything else).
I agree though, the meta is refreshing. I would've liked it to be a little less rock/paper/scissor (i.e. the counters are too strong imo), but outside of that I'm not really complaining. Just struggling to find a good deck
The "rock/paper/scissors" with the hard counters is a bit frustrating. But many Hearthstone cards now are so good at what they do (except healing) that it is not worthwhile teching against certain decks but instead focusing on what your deck wants to do and hoping they don't kill you first. Maybe teching will become more useful once the meta settles down.
I think the idea of teching in the current state of Hearthstone is frankly an awful idea, and it hasn't much to do with the meta. As long as their philosophy dictates that tech cards are semi-vanilla minions with lukewarm effects, they're never going to do the job they're supposed to do. The way tech cards look, even in Mean Streets, you're wasting your time even thinking about them. If you're going to tech, it needs to be with your deck strategy, which goes a bit beyond merely teching. Tech cards need to be amazing against a particular deck, and bad against all others, whereas right now they're slightly below par against most decks, and only slightly above par against the target deck. They're not bold enough.
I "tech" right now by running double Ooze in my 2-slot. lol
On December 13 2016 22:48 Kenpark wrote: Well I guess it didnt take long for people to figure out what happens, when you just put the pirate package into the class with the strongest 1,2, drops and a 4 mana 7/7. The "new" shaman variant with Lava Burst and stuff got to be one of the fastest decks in the history of hearthstone. Flametongue is so insane in this deck with Patches.
EPT
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