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On April 13 2016 09:13 Shikyo wrote:
I'd like to see a card that counters silence and things like that. For example a 4 mana 4-3 with effect: "Returns a minion to its original state as if it had just been summoned". This could have the keyword "cleanse", "purify" or whatever. It would also counter opponent's beneficial battle cries but if that's too strong it could be only castable on your own minions..
Reincarnate
![[image loading]](http://engagedfamilygaming.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/reincarnate-232x300.png)
But i also like your idea.
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On April 13 2016 09:46 Hellonslaught wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2016 09:13 Shikyo wrote:
I'd like to see a card that counters silence and things like that. For example a 4 mana 4-3 with effect: "Returns a minion to its original state as if it had just been summoned". This could have the keyword "cleanse", "purify" or whatever. It would also counter opponent's beneficial battle cries but if that's too strong it could be only castable on your own minions.. Reincarnate But i also like your idea.
Well, that's not the same thing. That for instance still procs deathrattle.
I really would like it on a neutral minion. But my suggestion probably is too cheap for the effect. Still, something.
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On April 13 2016 09:34 Cricketer12 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2016 08:42 Hellonslaught wrote:On April 13 2016 07:52 Cricketer12 wrote:On April 13 2016 04:04 NewSunshine wrote:
Dragon decks were already poised to take over with Standard mode, this card will cement it, very very scary as an endgame threat. Eveyone forgets that tempo mage and aggro shaman are nearly untouched. People will find a way to make standard cancerous as hell... I think without Crackle and the possible nerf to Doomhammer, cancer Shaman won't be good enough to compete vs other agro options like zoolock, but yeah, i agree with you. People will find a way to make standard cancerous as hell indeed. The biggest problem for me is tempo mage. Doubt they touch it though.
Tempo mage is losing scientist though which is more or less the best card in the deck, without which secrets are going to be cut, plus Flamecannon and Unstable Portal (which is actually a big hit as its one of the few non-reactive spells in the deck so you can trigger your synergies without your opponent having a board) and Dr. Boom that's 8 rather important cards gone from the deck might still be playable but scientist is a huge blow to the decks power level.
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On April 13 2016 09:44 Dromar wrote:
So, am I the only one who kind of dislikes how multiple cards have the same name now? Are we supposed to refer to them as "Rag 1" and "Rag 2?" "Rag" and "New Rag?"
Maybe Lightlord and Firelord, just as a guess. RICH would need to add new links for the cards though.
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On April 13 2016 11:18 NewSunshine wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2016 09:44 Dromar wrote:
So, am I the only one who kind of dislikes how multiple cards have the same name now? Are we supposed to refer to them as "Rag 1" and "Rag 2?" "Rag" and "New Rag?" Maybe Lightlord and Firelord, just as a guess. RICH would need to add new links for the cards though.
I mean we already have abbreviations like BGH Cho and Sylvanas using the nicknames will likely be a good idea.
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On April 13 2016 09:34 Cricketer12 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2016 08:42 Hellonslaught wrote:On April 13 2016 07:52 Cricketer12 wrote:On April 13 2016 04:04 NewSunshine wrote:
Dragon decks were already poised to take over with Standard mode, this card will cement it, very very scary as an endgame threat. Eveyone forgets that tempo mage and aggro shaman are nearly untouched. People will find a way to make standard cancerous as hell... I think without Crackle and the possible nerf to Doomhammer, cancer Shaman won't be good enough to compete vs other agro options like zoolock, but yeah, i agree with you. People will find a way to make standard cancerous as hell indeed. The biggest problem for me is tempo mage. Doubt they touch it though.
They are losing flamecannon which is actually a pretty big deal, though not nearly as big of a loss as mad scientist. I think that the first 2-3 turns of tempo mage are going to take a big hit making the flamewaker turns much more manageable. Sort of like whats happening to secret paladin. They are keeping the insanely broken card, but the decks are much more likely to be in a losing situation by that turn. Also worst case scenario, we have to deal with it for 1 more expansion until BRM cycles out and nobody plays any kind of mage until they get some new power cards.
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On April 13 2016 09:44 Dromar wrote:
So, am I the only one who kind of dislikes how multiple cards have the same name now? Are we supposed to refer to them as "Rag 1" and "Rag 2?" "Rag" and "New Rag?"
At least this version of Deathwing could be referred to as "Dragonlord" (I doubt people really want to say Deathwing, Dragonlord every time they refer to this card).
Like, the cards are cool and all, but it just kinda bugs me.
As for the actual card, Deathwing 2 is really slow, but relatively BGH-proof, assuming you have another dragon in hand. Could be okay, but definitely a card people are gonna wanna try. The first week(s) after this set comes out are gonna be nuts.
This is a thing in Magic as well when we have multiple characters with multiple cards, even in the same block of sets.
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United Kingdom31255 Posts
On April 13 2016 12:24 WindWolf wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2016 09:44 Dromar wrote:
So, am I the only one who kind of dislikes how multiple cards have the same name now? Are we supposed to refer to them as "Rag 1" and "Rag 2?" "Rag" and "New Rag?"
At least this version of Deathwing could be referred to as "Dragonlord" (I doubt people really want to say Deathwing, Dragonlord every time they refer to this card).
Like, the cards are cool and all, but it just kinda bugs me.
As for the actual card, Deathwing 2 is really slow, but relatively BGH-proof, assuming you have another dragon in hand. Could be okay, but definitely a card people are gonna wanna try. The first week(s) after this set comes out are gonna be nuts. This is a thing in Magic as well when we have multiple characters with multiple cards, even in the same block of sets.
I mean it could be much worse for example pokemon TCG has like 9 Charizards legal right now. Also they had these two cards legal at the same time at one point:
+ Show Spoiler +
Would you like deck thinners with that?
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On April 13 2016 07:52 Cricketer12 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2016 04:04 NewSunshine wrote:
Dragon decks were already poised to take over with Standard mode, this card will cement it, very very scary as an endgame threat. Eveyone forgets that tempo mage and aggro shaman are nearly untouched. People will find a way to make standard cancerous as hell...
Dunno about Tempo Mage. What carries this deck is its strength vs Druid and the removal of Scientist hurts a lot vs Druid. Without Scientist secrets will get removed most likely. I played without secrets and its fine, but like I said it is not close as the same vs Druid. The tempo swing is just so big in this mu.
For 2 mana you basicaly get a 2-2 and another 4 or 5 drop, cause these are the only minions Druids play. So this big tempo play isnt there anymore.
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so Drazerk , they are all Professor OAK with different names? how cute 
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I dunno exactly what to say about New Deathwing. I mean, by turn 10, how many dragons do you seriously anticipate having in your hand? Isn't the point of a dragon deck to use the smaller dragons to buy you space to play the bigger ones? On the other hand, the style of having a big minion that both needs to be silenced and removed is a powerful one (consider Sylvanas, Tirion). If it ever stands as a serious threat, Deathwing will be insanely difficult to answer properly, but otherwise, I'm not sure it'll do anything above being a vanilla 12/12.
If it just summoned two random dragons, or even two generic 5/5 dragon tokens, it would be excellent.
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On April 13 2016 14:04 Acritter wrote:
I dunno exactly what to say about New Deathwing. I mean, by turn 10, how many dragons do you seriously anticipate having in your hand? Isn't the point of a dragon deck to use the smaller dragons to buy you space to play the bigger ones? On the other hand, the style of having a big minion that both needs to be silenced and removed is a powerful one (consider Sylvanas, Tirion). If it ever stands as a serious threat, Deathwing will be insanely difficult to answer properly, but otherwise, I'm not sure it'll do anything above being a vanilla 12/12.
If it just summoned two random dragons, or even two generic 5/5 dragon tokens, it would be excellent.
I don't like this style of argument because the thinking is too rigid. The biggest challenge of getting a big dragon to help win the game is simply getting it into play. While they got cards to compensate for that, the ability to just drop dragons onto the battlefield wholesale will be a very welcome effect. Dragonlord might be just as slow to play as Chromaggus or Ysera, but it represents a much larger threat and can win the game if you don't kill it. It's far from a vanilla 12/12, it's a 12/12 that your opponent doesn't actually want to kill, which is insane.
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On April 13 2016 11:06 Nakara wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2016 09:34 Cricketer12 wrote:On April 13 2016 08:42 Hellonslaught wrote:On April 13 2016 07:52 Cricketer12 wrote:On April 13 2016 04:04 NewSunshine wrote:
Dragon decks were already poised to take over with Standard mode, this card will cement it, very very scary as an endgame threat. Eveyone forgets that tempo mage and aggro shaman are nearly untouched. People will find a way to make standard cancerous as hell... I think without Crackle and the possible nerf to Doomhammer, cancer Shaman won't be good enough to compete vs other agro options like zoolock, but yeah, i agree with you. People will find a way to make standard cancerous as hell indeed. The biggest problem for me is tempo mage. Doubt they touch it though. Tempo mage is losing scientist though which is more or less the best card in the deck, without which secrets are going to be cut, plus Flamecannon and Unstable Portal (which is actually a big hit as its one of the few non-reactive spells in the deck so you can trigger your synergies without your opponent having a board) and Dr. Boom that's 8 rather important cards gone from the deck might still be playable but scientist is a huge blow to the decks power level.
I play a variant of tempo mage without secrets or Dr.Boom. The secrets are helpful in some matchups like Ramp Druid but that's it. On other matchups scientist/secrets aren't the best card.
The major hole will be 2 mana slot without Unstable Portal.
Fallen Hero doesn't work as 2 drop or when you want to cast many spells.
Jeweled Scarab can work but it's anti tempo compared to portal.
Maybe I will try it a tad slower and Yogg-Saron as another finisher.
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On April 13 2016 14:56 NewSunshine wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2016 14:04 Acritter wrote:
I dunno exactly what to say about New Deathwing. I mean, by turn 10, how many dragons do you seriously anticipate having in your hand? Isn't the point of a dragon deck to use the smaller dragons to buy you space to play the bigger ones? On the other hand, the style of having a big minion that both needs to be silenced and removed is a powerful one (consider Sylvanas, Tirion). If it ever stands as a serious threat, Deathwing will be insanely difficult to answer properly, but otherwise, I'm not sure it'll do anything above being a vanilla 12/12.
If it just summoned two random dragons, or even two generic 5/5 dragon tokens, it would be excellent. I don't like this style of argument because the thinking is too rigid. The biggest challenge of getting a big dragon to help win the game is simply getting it into play. While they got cards to compensate for that, the ability to just drop dragons onto the battlefield wholesale will be a very welcome effect. Dragonlord might be just as slow to play as Chromaggus or Ysera, but it represents a much larger threat and can win the game if you don't kill it. It's far from a vanilla 12/12, it's a 12/12 that your opponent doesn't actually want to kill, which is insane.
He still has no immediate impact unlike Ysera. With Ysera you can get 2 cards that are big tempo swings the next turn. With this guy you might even have problems getting value out of the deathrattle. If you have no other impactful dragons he does nothing. The opponent may also just ignore it with sth like Aldor or some small taunts.
Ideally you want to have a big hand and no immediate threats on the board when you play this guy. How often does that happen when you have to spend your whole mana on the turn ? Only Dragon with taunt is chillmaw btw, so that doesnt help either. Another point is with 12 health he may be hard to get rid of yourself, as strange as it sounds.
I dont think he will be strong.
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I would be more than happy if someone answer to me playing deathwing was putting up a small taunt lol He can trade favourably against any minions (exceptt he ancient one lol, or a buffed cthun) and will most of the time take 2 cards to handle, which will give higher chance for the dragon pulled in by his deathrattle to stick to the board.
But his deathrattle is only good for Ysera or chromaggus, or malygos, but wouldn't you have played those before turn 10 anyway? Other dragons usually have battlecry effect that you don't want to waste with deathwing pull
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Ultimate Combo:
Yogg'Saron -> Embrace the Shadow -> Tree of Life
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On April 13 2016 22:51 The_Masked_Shrimp wrote:
I would be more than happy if someone answer to me playing deathwing was putting up a small taunt lol He can trade favourably against any minions (exceptt he ancient one lol, or a buffed cthun) and will most of the time take 2 cards to handle, which will give higher chance for the dragon pulled in by his deathrattle to stick to the board.
But his deathrattle is only good for Ysera or chromaggus, or malygos, but wouldn't you have played those before turn 10 anyway? Other dragons usually have battlecry effect that you don't want to waste with deathwing pull
With Dragon Consort you could get Deathwing out ahead of the 9 mana dragons. And you could draw them afterwards if he survives the enemy turn. And getting out 8/8 for free while loosing their battelcries after the opponent either threw BGH/Assasinate/Siphon Soul/SWD/Activator+Execute/(Armorgenerator+)Shield Slam or tons of damage at my 12/12 only makes me sad if they can follow up with a boardclear like Equality + Pyro/Consecration, Twisting Nether/Doom, Lightbomb, Brawl. Of course it remains to be seen how many heavy dragons can be thrown into a deck without consistently getting murdered in the early or midgame. Early sticky minions leaving and some nerfs to the combo and the more aggressively costed premium Aggro minions like Knife Juggler and Leper Gnome might help enough to make it happen with enough board clears heals and taunts. But then again Sludge Belcher, Antique Healbot, Zombiechow and Deathlord are leaving too. Now that I think about it freezemage might be a roadblock too for all the dragon decks besides warrior.
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On April 13 2016 14:56 NewSunshine wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2016 14:04 Acritter wrote:
I dunno exactly what to say about New Deathwing. I mean, by turn 10, how many dragons do you seriously anticipate having in your hand? Isn't the point of a dragon deck to use the smaller dragons to buy you space to play the bigger ones? On the other hand, the style of having a big minion that both needs to be silenced and removed is a powerful one (consider Sylvanas, Tirion). If it ever stands as a serious threat, Deathwing will be insanely difficult to answer properly, but otherwise, I'm not sure it'll do anything above being a vanilla 12/12.
If it just summoned two random dragons, or even two generic 5/5 dragon tokens, it would be excellent. I don't like this style of argument because the thinking is too rigid. The biggest challenge of getting a big dragon to help win the game is simply getting it into play. While they got cards to compensate for that, the ability to just drop dragons onto the battlefield wholesale will be a very welcome effect. Dragonlord might be just as slow to play as Chromaggus or Ysera, but it represents a much larger threat and can win the game if you don't kill it. It's far from a vanilla 12/12, it's a 12/12 that your opponent doesn't actually want to kill, which is insane.
I'm not certain you understood my post. Let me try to break it down. Yes, the biggest challenge is getting it into play. That's exactly what I said here:
Isn't the point of a dragon deck to use the smaller dragons to buy you space to play the bigger ones?
Getting a lot of dragons onto the field is, indeed, an extremely strong effect. In fact, it's incredibly strong. Dragons tend to be reasonably-sized minions or massively-sized minions, and even getting two out for no manacost is potentially backbreaking. The problem is:
I mean, by turn 10, how many dragons do you seriously anticipate having in your hand?
If you've curved out with even remote effectiveness, you should expect to have played the majority of the dragons drawn by the time turn 10 rolls around. This is the weakness of new Deathwing. Note that I did not anywhere criticize it for being slow or having little effect on the battlefield; in fact, a 12/12 is one of those few bodies that is simply outrageously big enough to demand a response from almost any deck. And as far as it being a 12/12 that your opponent doesn't want to kill...
On the other hand, the style of having a big minion that both needs to be silenced and removed is a powerful one (consider Sylvanas, Tirion).
You'll see that I said exactly that. This is why I think you didn't understand what I wrote, and instead answered a strawman you constructed which used the typical no-immediate-impact argument.
Now, on a slightly different topic regarding new Deathwing: what dragons do you actually want to cheat in this way? The majority of all dragons have battlecries, often very valuable ones, and cheating them in doesn't seem particularly advantageous. As far as cheating out the small ones is concerned, you lose the critical battlecries from Azure Drake and Twilight Guardian, Twilight Drake becomes a 4/1, and basically only Dragonkin Sorcerer and Faerie Dragon come out unscathed (but who plays those?). Maybe it's time for Hungry Dragon to come to the fore? As far as cheating out the big ones is concerned, you lose the battlecries of Nefarian, Alex, and Onyxia, make Chillmaw just a 6/6 taunt, and only particularly benefit from Ysera, Chromaggus, and possibly Nozdormu. Now, if you get out only a couple of these, the board threat might appear somewhat underwhelming. If you get out too many, you leave yourself vulnerable to, say, Brawl or Equality clears. If you get out only small ones, you're not getting full value from Deathwing. If you get out too many big ones, you've massively lowered the threat density of your deck and need to win immediately or just stall out.
This goes back to what I said earlier. If Deathwing added dragons to your hand, or summoned some generic bodies like Savannah Highmane, I'd be singing its praises left, right, and center. But dropping a bunch from your hand... I'm not sure that's quite so good. It's like, if Voidcaller costed 10 and summoned every demon, it wouldn't be particularly strong, right? Cheating stuff from your hand is a tempo play, and tempo plays stop meaning quite so much at 10 mana.
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On April 13 2016 23:41 Seuss wrote:
Ultimate Combo:
Yogg'Saron -> Bane of Doom -> Malganis -> Embrace the Shadow -> Tree of Life
FTFY
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EPT![[image loading]](http://media.pokellector.com/cards/162/Professor-Sycamore.PHF.101.png)
