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I'm going to work on a rundown of all the current spells to see what proportion are symmetrical and what proportion are grant advantage and disadvantage at least on a first level look. There may be ways to break certain symmetries or make exceptions.
EDIT: List complete
+ Show Spoiler +Druid + Show Spoiler +
Claw: advantage
Healing touch: symmetric
Innervate: advantage
Mark of the wild: symmetric
Wild growth: advantage
Living roots: 50% symmetric, 50% advantage
Mark of nature: symmetric
Moonfire: symmetric
Naturalize: disadvantage
Poison seeds: symmetric
Power of the wild: advantage
Raven idol: advantage
Savage roar: advantage
Soul of the forest: advantage
Starfire: advantage
Swipe: advantage
Wrath: 50% symmetric, 50% advantage
Bite: advantage
Nourish: advantage
Recycle: advantage
Savagery: symmetric
Starfall: 50% symmetric, 50% advantage
Astral Communion: disadvantage (terrible!)
Dark wispers: 50% symmetric, 50% advantage
Force of nature: advantage
Mulch: disadvantage
Tree of life: symmetric
notes: astral communion is definitely the nightmare.
Hunter: + Show Spoiler +
Arcane shot: symmetric
Multishot: advantage
Tracking: advantage
Animal companion: advantage
Bear trap: advantage
Cobra shot: advantage
Dart trap: advantage
Deadly shot: advantage
Explosive trap: advantage
Freezing trap: advantage
Hunter's mark: symmetric
Kill command: symmetric
Quick shot: symmetric? Only with an empty hand and yogg not casting a card draw first do you benefit.
Snipe: advantage
Unleash the hounds: advantage
Ball of spiders: advantage
Call pet: advantage
Explorer's hat: symmetric
Explosive Shot: symmetric
Flare: advantage
Misdirection: advantage
Powershot: symmetric
Bestial wrath: advantage
Feign death: advantage? most deathrattles that are played in competitive are positive.
Lock and load: advantage? no effect under most circumstances after playing a 10 drop
Snake trap: advantage
notes: don't see anything really bad here.
Mage: + Show Spoiler +
Arcane explosion: advantage
Arcane intellect: advantage
Arcane missiles: advantage
Fireball: symmetric
Polymorph: symmetric
Cone of cold: symmetric
Dragon's breath: symmetric
Duplicate: advantage
Flame lance: symmetric
Flamecannon: advantage
Flamestrike: advantage! one of the best to get
Forgotten torch: advantage? kind of a tiny one, but the roaring torch is better than the average card
Frost nova: advantage
Frostbolt: symmetric
Ice barrier: advantage
Ice lance: symmetric
Mirror entity: advantage
Mirror image: advantage
Blizzard: advantage
Counterspell: advantage
Effigy: advantage
Polymorph: boar: symmetric
Unstable portal: advantage
Vaporize: advantage
Arcane blast: symmetric
Echo of medivh: advantage
Ice block: advantage
Pyroblast: symmetric
Spellbender: advantage
notes: mage spells are great, secrets are always on your side and the board clears.
Paladin: + Show Spoiler +
Blessing of might: symmetric
Hammer of wrath: advantage
Hand of protection: symmetric
Holy light: symmetric
Avenge: advantage
Blessing of kings: symmetric
Blessing of wisdom: advantage
Consecration: advantage
Eye for an eye: advantage
Humility: symmetric
Noble sacrifice: advantage
Redemption: advantage
Sacred trial: advantage
Seal of champions: symmetric
Seal of light: advantage
Solemn vigil: advantage
Anyfin can happen: advantage? most of the time nothing, sometimes murlocs
Blessed Champion: symmetric
Compeitive spirit: advantage
Divine favor: advantage
Equality: symmetric
Holy wrath: advantage
Muster for battle: advantage
Avenging wrath: symmetric
Enter the Coliseum: symmetric effect, but you just played a 7/5 so probably will be in your favor
Lay on Hands: advantage
notes: lot of low impact spells here, but nothing too bad
Priest: + Show Spoiler +
Holy smite: symmetric
Mind blast: advantage
Power word: shield: advantage
Shadow word: pain: symmetric
Circle of healing: symmetric
Divine spirit: symmetric
Entomb: advantage
Flash heal: symmetric
Holy nova: advantage
Inner fire: symmetric
Mind control: advantage
Mind vision: advantage
Power word: glory: advantage
Shadow word: death: symmetric
Silence: symmetric
Thoughtsteal: advantage
Velen's chosen: symmetric
Convert: advantage
Excavated evil: symmetric
Holy fire: advantage
Light of the naaru: advantage? kind of minor because of the good chance you don't get the cleric
Mass dispel: advantage
Resurrect: advantage
Shadow madness: advantage
Confuse: symmetric
Lightbomb: symmetric
Mind games: advantage
Shadow form: advantage
notes: buffs and healing, you probably don't want a lot of these cast if you're trying to end the game
Rogue: + Show Spoiler +
Assassinate: advantage
Backstab: symmetric
Deadly poison: advantage? most common outcome is nothing
Sap: advantage
Sinister strike: advantage
Betrayal: advantage
Cold blood: symmetric
Conceal: advantage
Eviscerate: symmetric
Fan of knives: advantage
Gang up: ?? avoid fatigue or getting extra Yogg sarons vs shuffle random crap into your deck
Shadowstep: advantage? tough to say you might get 2nd yogg trigger or might tempo screw yourself
Shiv: advantage
Sprint: advantage
Tinker's sharpsword oil: advantage
Vanish: the effect is symmetric but yogg is normally a lot of value so resetting seems to be advantage most of the time
Blade flurry: advantage, but will do nothing in a lot of classes
Burgle: advantage
Headcrack: advantage
Beneath the grounds: advantage
Preparation: advantage
Sabotage: advantage
notes: hard to figure out some of these cards and the weapon requirement on some of these spells makes it so that weapon classes have a higher chance of benefitting from yogg saron.
Shaman: + Show Spoiler +
Ancestral healing: symmetric
Frost shock: advantage
Hex: symmetric
Rockbiter weapon: advantage, might fizzle a lot on summoned minions/yogg though
Windfury: symmetric
Ancestral knowledge: advantage
Bloodlust: advantage
Crackle: symmetric
Earth shock: symmetric
Forked lightning: advantage
Lightning bolt: symmetric
Reincarnate: symmetric
Totemic might: advantage, extremely low impact
Ancestral spirit: symmetric
Everyfin is awesome: advantage
Feral spirit: advantage
Healing wave: symmetric
Lava burst: symmetric
Lava shock: symmetric unless you cheated yogg saron out and have overloaded crystals
Lightning storm: advantage
Ancestor's call: symmetric effect, but your opponent does get to attack first unless the minion dies to followup yogg spells
Elemental Destruction: symmetric effect, but you'd probably rather this not kill your yogg
Far sight: advantage
notes: most of the shaman removal is symmetric, except forked lightning and lightning storm
Warlock: + Show Spoiler +
Drain life: advantage because of the lifegain, it's a minor effect
Hellfire: symmetric
Shadow bolt: symmetric
Corruption: advantage, but if anything survives it will probably run into your yogg
Curse of rafaam: advantage
Dark bomb: symmetric
Demonfire: symmetric unless you're playing demons
Demonfuse: most likely outcome is nothing, advantage/disadvantage depending on who if any is playing demons
Mortal coil: mostly symmetric, very occasional draw for advantage
Power overwhelming: disadvantage? can kill yogg which I think might be your only minion a decent percent of the time
Sacrificial pact: advantage, will probably do nothing most of the time
Sense demons: advantage
Soulfire: disadvantage
Demonwrath: symmetric
Fist of jaraxxus: advantage
Implosion: advantage
Shadowflame: advantage most of the time
Siphon Soul: advantage, the 3 life is minor compared to where the kill part lands though
Bane of doom: advantage
Dark bargain: advantage, board dependent
Demonheart: symmetric unless demons are involved
Twisting nether: symmetric, probably not great if it's the last spell and your opponent develops on an empty board
notes: Quite a few cards that if you are running demons turn some of these spells from symmetric into bonuses.
Warrior: + Show Spoiler +
Charge: advantage, will probably enable yogg to attack quite often
Execute: advantage
Heroic strike: advantage
Bash: advantage
Battle rage: advantage
Bolster: advantage, most likely will miss
Cleave: advantage
Inner rage: symmetric
Rampage: symmetric
Shield block: advantage
Slam: advantage
Whirlwind: symmetric
Commanding shout: advantage
Mortal Strike: symmetric
Revenge: symmetric
Upgrade: advantage
Bouncing blade: symmetric
Brawl: symmetric
Crush: symmetric
Shield slam: symmetric, will miss a lot of the time
notes: warriors are lacking in one sided sweepers
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After playing around with the card simulator, 10-15 spell yogg, seems to basically be effectively DOOM! (board wipe plus draw) with some crazy rng and a significant but not overwhelming chance to leave behind a body. Also it can totally win you games on it's own that you definitely shouldn't have won. So this is a card that will never be played when ahead. Though it actually seems pretty strong if you can freeze one of your opponents boards with enough health, cause the more minions on the board the higher the chance Yogg-Saron doesn't kill himself.
It is also worth noting that the enemy board is almost certainly dead on a 10-15 spell YS, between symmetrical board clears, asymmetrical board clears, and enemy only removal it is very unlikely for the enemies board to survive. I also think that, if you have the life to risk it higher spell YS's are generally strong because of cards like soul of the forest, shadowstep and conceal which drastically increase the chance of you having a board (or at least a stronger follow up hand.)
It's definitely more playable than I initially believed, though incredibly high variance and probably more likely to lose you an effectively won game than every other card besides a poorly played majordomo (though even that is debatable)
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Ok, wait a second, if you manage to have Brann on the board when you play Yogg, do all the spells activated by his first battlecry count towards his second? Say you activated 10 spells prior to playing him, he would cast 10, then would he cast 20 the second time? I need to know this.
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You get 10 spells, then 10 more.
Spells aren't considered cast if they come from Yogg's battle cry.
Relevant if the enemy has troggs / counterspell or you have a mana wyrm out.
Not sure how they interact with spell damage though, but I assume the normal way.
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United Kingdom31255 Posts
On April 08 2016 06:44 NewSunshine wrote:
Ok, wait a second, if you manage to have Brann on the board when you play Yogg, do all the spells activated by his first battlecry count towards his second? Say you activated 10 spells prior to playing him, he would cast 10, then would he cast 20 the second time? I need to know this.
You get 10 spells the first battlecry then another 10 the second. Yogg isn't counted as YOU casting the spell.
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/DmPzplX.png)
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That's one long card. Also one hell of a crapshoot, check this out.
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/Ohzl3gN.png)
He is the Hope's End, in a sense. I see this happening to me a lot.
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Step 1: Keep Yogg in hand.
Step 2: Do a double Cho-coin dance. Repeatedly.
Step 3: When your opponent's guard is down, drop Yogg. RNG explodes.
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United Kingdom31255 Posts
On April 08 2016 06:55 NewSunshine wrote:That's one long card. Also one hell of a crapshoot, check this out. He is the Hope's End, in a sense. I see this happening to me a lot.
But imagine if it was Astral into vanish! Free second Yogg!
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On April 08 2016 07:07 Drazerk wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2016 06:55 NewSunshine wrote:That's one long card. Also one hell of a crapshoot, check this out. He is the Hope's End, in a sense. I see this happening to me a lot. But imagine if it was Astral into vanish! Free second Yogg!
Better than '10 mana - Destroy all friendly minions and discard your hand', I guess.
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United Kingdom31255 Posts
On April 08 2016 07:16 NewSunshine wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2016 07:07 Drazerk wrote:On April 08 2016 06:55 NewSunshine wrote:That's one long card. Also one hell of a crapshoot, check this out. He is the Hope's End, in a sense. I see this happening to me a lot. But imagine if it was Astral into vanish! Free second Yogg! Better than '10 mana - Destroy all friendly minions and discard your hand', I guess.
I mean you also gained 7 armour
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I think people need to look at this in the same way as Anyfin Can Happen. When that was first announced people thought it was trash, but also thought about paladin decks that were full of murlocs and used cards like Murloc Knight and Coldlight Oracle. As it turned out the best (only) way to play that card was to actually only play the charge murlocs and the two warleaders. This turned a card that many called trash into a B Tier deck the was completely built around that card.
I think it is the same as Yog. Most people are excited about how many spells you could throw in before you play Yog on turn 10 and playing them all again in one turn for total carnage. I think it would work much better if you actually only played a very select number of spells to force out a very deliberate result. For example, your only spells are Charge, Heroic Strike and Upgrade! and Yog is you turn 10 OTK.
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On April 08 2016 07:45 Greendotz wrote:
I think people need to look at this in the same way as Anyfin Can Happen. When that was first announced people thought it was trash, but also thought about paladin decks that were full of murlocs and used cards like Murloc Knight and Coldlight Oracle. As it turned out the best (only) way to play that card was to actually only play the charge murlocs and the two warleaders. This turned a card that many called trash into a B Tier deck the was completely built around that card.
I think it is the same as Yog. Most people are excited about how many spells you could throw in before you play Yog on turn 10 and playing them all again in one turn for total carnage. I think it would work much better if you actually only played a very select number of spells to force out a very deliberate result. For example, your only spells are Charge, Heroic Strike and Upgrade! and Yog is you turn 10 OTK.
Yogg casts random spells not copies of yours.
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On April 08 2016 07:48 NovaTheFeared wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2016 07:45 Greendotz wrote:
I think people need to look at this in the same way as Anyfin Can Happen. When that was first announced people thought it was trash, but also thought about paladin decks that were full of murlocs and used cards like Murloc Knight and Coldlight Oracle. As it turned out the best (only) way to play that card was to actually only play the charge murlocs and the two warleaders. This turned a card that many called trash into a B Tier deck the was completely built around that card.
I think it is the same as Yog. Most people are excited about how many spells you could throw in before you play Yog on turn 10 and playing them all again in one turn for total carnage. I think it would work much better if you actually only played a very select number of spells to force out a very deliberate result. For example, your only spells are Charge, Heroic Strike and Upgrade! and Yog is you turn 10 OTK. Yogg casts random spells not copies of yours.
lol, I'm going to bed
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I would have liked Yogg a lot more if he cast the spells you'd previously cast, or at the very least put copies into your hand. This is neat, but that would have been way neater. I mean, also overpowered as fuck, but you win some you lose some.
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On April 08 2016 04:05 Drazerk wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2016 03:52 Penlievskiov wrote:
K Blizz, some Spike cards now please; I need to satisfy my deck building urges Okay I honestly believe that Yogg Saron may have some legitimate use in competitions. If blizzard was to print a card that was literally 10 mana 50% chance to win or lose the game. EVERYONE would run it. It'd be stupid not to as it could win you unwinnable games etc etc. In the same vein Yogg Saron is like a 40% chance to win 30% nothing 20% you lose and as a result its honestly not that terrible competitively given it can win you games you have no right to win.
If Yogg Saron becomes a competitive card I'm going to be very upset.
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It's like a YOLO Deathwing. Nobody ever thought the card was actually good, but it's managed to see play here and there as a Hail Mary in Warrior decks. Yogg-Saron could do the same, only it's a lot more hilarious. I'm definitely going to play a lot with this card, if for nothing else than how awesomely awesome that effect is.
Who cares if I lose the game, I'm going to lose with style motherfucker.
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United Kingdom31255 Posts
![[image loading]](https://imgur.com/CJT9jdG.jpg)
Only took a few hours I'm surprised people did this so quick
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Yogg-Saron is very good and auto-include in extremely spell-based decks, especially if they are draw-orientated.
Why? Simply because it actually is a comeback / turnaround card. It can win you lost games on its own. You have no clue about anything that could possibly save you. What to do? Play Yogg-Saron and hope he lets you win. If it doesn't, any other card wouldn't have either. But in those situations it just might be the only card that can save you from a certain loss.
On the other hand, if you're winning and have a large hand(usually the case if you're winning significantly), you don't even have to play him. Then if the tide of the match turns and you're suddenly heavily on the back foot, you can here play him and see if you can turn the game around in that regard.
In short: It's a great card. Play it when behind, don't play it when ahead. For spell-based, draw-based, relatively low-curve decks.
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I'm really excited for the inevitable case where Yogg pulls like 15 Spreading Madness, and everyone dies 
Also, if you really want to roll out a lot of spells for him, you can go Rhonin > Antonidas for 6 spells from 2 cards. Then with Ethereal Conjurer, Forgotten Torch and Jeweled Scarab, I think Mage will be a great class for creating BS Yogg plays.
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oh man... my summoning stone/malygos spell druid cant wait for this card to be released (and pulled out a pack, because i dont think ill waste 1600 dust to craft it -.-)
astral communion into vanish is obviously the dream
how many times in a row will a trolden vid manage to do that?
looks like a lot of fun though, which is nice.
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EPT
