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On November 12 2015 06:19 Seuss wrote:+ Show Spoiler +It's not about adding another gimmick, but introducing flexibility. Take Worgen OTK as an example.
The Worgen OTK combo requires 6 cards: Raging Worgen, Charge!, 2 * Inner Rage, 2 * Rampage. Barring Thaurissan this costs 10 mana for 32 damage. Assembling all of that is difficult, and if your opponent has a taunt, or Ice Block, or some other obstacle there's nothing you can do. However, Djinni can effectively stand in for multiple cards in the combo. With a Djinni on the board you can drop Worgen, Charge, and Inner Rage to do 27 damage for only 6 mana. With some help from Thaurissan you could even drop that same combo on an empty board. Djinni is effectively a buff combo wildcard. It'll be standard in all buff-based OTK combo decks, but more importantly it'll have a place in buff-heavy decks that aren't necessarily looking to do 30 damage all at once.
I think you're missing what's being said. A OTK is not about having minions on the board, it's about being able to kill the opponent from an empty board at full health and with your view then Djinni becomes yet another combo piece that is a dead card for the rest of the game.
Also the point has already been made (and is kind of assumed for constructed play) that any card you play that is not ridiculously well defended for it's cost will be removed immediately. Djinni is great if you can combo but is entirely reliant on having existing minions on the board, which is an unrealistic expectation at turn 5.
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On November 12 2015 07:07 Garak911 wrote:
Well, if you don't play a lot of 2 of's you will not have that many armor in the first place, so Reno might heal your Control Warrio quite a bit. 😀
Most of the essential 2 of's are rather low mana, if you replace 1 sludge and 1 shield maiden, Reno should work by the time you want to play him.
Not a bad point, but you are weakening the deck significantly by removing those two cards. Sludge is a sticky taunt (the best kind of taunt) and Shieldmaiden is just a fantastic all round card. Both of these are almost always great turn 5/6 plays but Reno is very rarely playable on curve so the overall card quality of your deck takes a drop.
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I'm loving Jewelled Scarab because it's one step closer to Hobgoblin decks being a real thing!
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If Scarab were a 1/2 he'd played a lot in hunter, with the ability to hit more consistently those 3 drops, kill command, animal companions, unleashes and even deadly shot.
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Turn 3 Feral Spirit
Turn 4 Annoy-o-tron
Turn 5 Djinni
Turn 6 Wolfrider + Windfury + Rockbiter Weapon
26 dmg if the taunts protect Djinni 
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These ratings historically skew low due to the best ideas not being known until after experimentation. Justicar, for instance, was given an initial rating of 3 with the potential to go up to 5.
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United Kingdom31255 Posts
On November 12 2015 08:09 AsAr wrote:Turn 3 Feral Spirit Turn 4 Annoy-o-tron Turn 5 Djinni Turn 6 Wolfrider + Windfury + Rockbiter Weapon 26 dmg if the taunts protect Djinni
Turn 1: Dust Devil + Coin + Dust Devil +Target Dummy
Turn 3: Flametongue Totem + Rockbitter Weapon
Lethal.
Every card has an ideal situation
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i always find these liquidhearth reviews and "decks of the month" to be pretty terrible. i wouldn't be surprised if most of these ratings were way off.
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On November 12 2015 07:14 MrSandman wrote:Show nested quote +On November 12 2015 07:07 Garak911 wrote:
Well, if you don't play a lot of 2 of's you will not have that many armor in the first place, so Reno might heal your Control Warrio quite a bit. 😀
Most of the essential 2 of's are rather low mana, if you replace 1 sludge and 1 shield maiden, Reno should work by the time you want to play him. Not a bad point, but you are weakening the deck significantly by removing those two cards. Sludge is a sticky taunt (the best kind of taunt) and Shieldmaiden is just a fantastic all round card. Both of these are almost always great turn 5/6 plays but Reno is very rarely playable on curve so the overall card quality of your deck takes a drop.
Yeah, maybe not worth it. You could use Arcane Nullifier instead of 1 Sludge, wich is also hard to remove and good for your curve. Shield Maiden could be replaced by Reno hinmself.
But for Reno to work reliably you would probably have to also remove other things that you don't necessarily keep on mulligan, like Execute, Shield Block, Shield Slam. That will most likely hurt simply too much to be made up by the times you are going to heal up against aggro.
That said, Reno can turn around a lost game like no other 6 mana card in the game.
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i like Reno, one of the better cards in my expansion.
One thing people dont seem to mention, is that some classes have multiple cards with the same purpose, and some are just prefered to others (even if they are just slightly worse)
Take for example warrior.
As removal - you could use Shield slam, Execute, Bouncing blade, Big game hunter, Crush.
As weapons - you have Arcanite reaper, The new one drop, Fiery war axe, Gorehowl, Deaths bite.
You wont fill your decks with 8 weapons, 4-5 seems enough, thats why currently the better ones are used - Deaths bite and Fiery. Arcanite reaper and gorehowl arent terrible, and could potentially be used too,
Its the same with cards like crush and execute, which turns out to be slightly better (and therefore played more) - that doesnt mean Crush isnt situationally useful though. - sometimes crush will work better.
Take 4 drops for example. Sure 2 Piloted shredders are great, but there are some 4 drops in game (like Yeti) that do actually fare quite similarly to piloted shredder. - even Sen jin shieldmasta isnt THAT much worse.
- Fact is, many cards are similar in power level - and the even very slightly better one is used as a 2 of.
Another thing to mention is, that as more and more cards are implemented, more cards that overlap in role are given.
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On November 12 2015 08:28 Circumstance wrote:
These ratings historically skew low due to the best ideas not being known until after experimentation. Justicar, for instance, was given an initial rating of 3 with the potential to go up to 5.
lets be honest though.
We want these cards to work, but most of them are simply not good enough. Mysterious challenger was underestimated, but a lot of people said "he could end up beeing really broken" before hand.
Cards like Anubisath sentinel, the shade, explorers hat and the likes - all have some specific use that will end up beeing terrible when you try it.
4-4 for 5, with potential +3+3.
Or shredder, 4-3 for 4, and a potential 3-2, 4-4 and so on.
Blizzard sucks at designing playable cards. 5% of the cards are actually playable.
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These ratings historically skew low due to the best ideas not being known until after experimentation. Justicar, for instance, was given an initial rating of 3 with the potential to go up to 5.
To be fair, that card is about a 4. It was only OP in Warrior and minorly interesting in Priest and Paladin but generally it goes unplayed except for CW.
I can see why Reno would be kind of bad. People overvalue heals in their head. Every heal spell is usually underplayed except a few rare cases. Healing Wave is borderline OP but doesn't see play, Earthen Ring is only played by very new players, Alexstrasa is played because she can also take your opponent down.
So, what you are telling me is I need to get totally lucky to play on turn 20 with no duplicate cards, OR have to sacrifice all my good cards and play 30 unique ones, or I get a mediocre 4/6 body. I don't know, seems really gimmicky as the OP said.
What shocks me is nobody has taken them to task over the Explorers Hat. That has huge game changing possibilities and its so shortsighted to make ranked a 1. You should have ranked it a 4 but now you just expose yourselves to such embarrassment.
If any of these goofy cards has a chance to define the meta its Explorers Hat. It goes with Feign Death, goes with Baron Rivendare, it can be duplicated, gotten from L&L, driven down in mana cost. I think you could see a control Hunter or hybrid throwing out hats like nobodies business, might end up being a tier 2 deck at least which is easily better than a 1.
Totally wrong. Maybe this 1 was click bait I don't know, its just so wrong IMHO. We'll have to see I guess.
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On November 12 2015 12:39 Vaudevillain2 wrote:+ Show Spoiler +These ratings historically skew low due to the best ideas not being known until after experimentation. Justicar, for instance, was given an initial rating of 3 with the potential to go up to 5. What shocks me is nobody has taken them to task over the Explorers Hat. That has huge game changing possibilities and its so shortsighted to make ranked a 1. You should have ranked it a 4 but now you just expose yourselves to such embarrassment. If any of these goofy cards has a chance to define the meta its Explorers Hat. It goes with Feign Death, goes with Baron Rivendare, it can be duplicated, gotten from L&L, driven down in mana cost. I think you could see a control Hunter or hybrid throwing out hats like nobodies business, might end up being a tier 2 deck at least which is easily better than a 1. Totally wrong. Maybe this 1 was click bait I don't know, its just so wrong IMHO. We'll have to see I guess.
I agree with some but not all of your points (for instance Earthen Ring Farseer goes in an out of the meta at times) but the reason Explorer's Hat was so low valued is that it's both poorly mana costed and counter-intuitive to current Hunter decks. What you're aiming for is maximum value with any given card and to do so with this card is problematic to say the least. 2 mana for a 1/1 buff is overvalued (think Shattered Sun Cleric) so you would need to gain a lot of synergy from the deathrattle, something which requires cards that are not commonly played and otherwise poor value, Baron Rivendare and Feign Death being two such cards.
On a side note, I love the idea of it. As someone who's played a bit of Magic in the past I see buffs and recycling cards are two things not common in Hearthstone at the moment but could easily fit in.
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On November 12 2015 09:34 Garak911 wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On November 12 2015 07:14 MrSandman wrote:Show nested quote +On November 12 2015 07:07 Garak911 wrote:
Well, if you don't play a lot of 2 of's you will not have that many armor in the first place, so Reno might heal your Control Warrio quite a bit. 😀
Most of the essential 2 of's are rather low mana, if you replace 1 sludge and 1 shield maiden, Reno should work by the time you want to play him. Not a bad point, but you are weakening the deck significantly by removing those two cards. Sludge is a sticky taunt (the best kind of taunt) and Shieldmaiden is just a fantastic all round card. Both of these are almost always great turn 5/6 plays but Reno is very rarely playable on curve so the overall card quality of your deck takes a drop. Yeah, maybe not worth it. You could use Arcane Nullifier instead of 1 Sludge, wich is also hard to remove and good for your curve. Shield Maiden could be replaced by Reno hinmself. But for Reno to work reliably you would probably have to also remove other things that you don't necessarily keep on mulligan, like Execute, Shield Block, Shield Slam. That will most likely hurt simply too much to be made up by the times you are going to heal up against aggro. That said, Reno can turn around a lost game like no other 6 mana card in the game.
And that is the very definition of a gimmick. And I think it's great that Blizzard are putting more and more into their card game! Gimmicks make for interesting play and more experimentation, which can occasionally toss up absolute gems like Mysterious Challenger and Malygos Warlock.
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I think Reno would be quite easy to fit into current control warrior decks. I play a greedy almost fatigue warrior and I can see him fitting right in. In fact if I had him I'd probably use him in my current deck.
The cards that warrior decks run 2 of are:
+ Show Spoiler +Execute
Shield Slam
Slam
Fiery War Axe
Armorsmith
Shield Block
Bash
Acolyte of Pain
Death's Bite
Piloted Shredder
Sledge Belcher
Brawl
Shieldmaiden
Of those I would argue that only Execute, Shield Slam, Death's Bite, and sledge Belcher are irreplaceable 2 ofs.
Its not uncommon for people to run Gorehowl over second FWA. Armorsmith might be hard to replace maybe Revenge, Whirlwind or Zombie Chow. Don't know what I'd replace Slam with, maybe Bouncing Blades. Most decks run either 2 Shield Blocks or Bash's, so now one of each. Acolyte of Pain can be 1 of or dropped. Piloted Shredder can be an easy 1 or 0 of. Brawl can be 1 of. Shieldmaiden can be replaced with Justicar or Reno himself.
So that's 4 maybe 6 cards that you need to have drawn either copy of to play Reno. Doesn't seem that hard.
I feel like he'll be really strong. It's such a big heal vs any sort of aggro. I know I've faced countless aggro decks that I was like 2 more mana to Alexstrasza and I'll win the game. Playing a Reno for like 15/20 hp heal on turn 7 or 8 will be even stronger than a max 14 heal from Alexstrasza. This card will auto win you vs aggro as soon as you play him.
Because you have such a big heal available you can be extra greedy for the late game and be greedier there so it would help both match ups.
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On November 12 2015 12:39 Vaudevillain2 wrote:Show nested quote +These ratings historically skew low due to the best ideas not being known until after experimentation. Justicar, for instance, was given an initial rating of 3 with the potential to go up to 5. To be fair, that card is about a 4. It was only OP in Warrior and minorly interesting in Priest and Paladin but generally it goes unplayed except for CW. I can see why Reno would be kind of bad. People overvalue heals in their head. Every heal spell is usually underplayed except a few rare cases. Healing Wave is borderline OP but doesn't see play, Earthen Ring is only played by very new players, Alexstrasa is played because she can also take your opponent down. So, what you are telling me is I need to get totally lucky to play on turn 20 with no duplicate cards, OR have to sacrifice all my good cards and play 30 unique ones, or I get a mediocre 4/6 body. I don't know, seems really gimmicky as the OP said. What shocks me is nobody has taken them to task over the Explorers Hat. That has huge game changing possibilities and its so shortsighted to make ranked a 1. You should have ranked it a 4 but now you just expose yourselves to such embarrassment. If any of these goofy cards has a chance to define the meta its Explorers Hat. It goes with Feign Death, goes with Baron Rivendare, it can be duplicated, gotten from L&L, driven down in mana cost. I think you could see a control Hunter or hybrid throwing out hats like nobodies business, might end up being a tier 2 deck at least which is easily better than a 1. Totally wrong. Maybe this 1 was click bait I don't know, its just so wrong IMHO. We'll have to see I guess.
Explorer's hat is a new hero power but vulnerable to silence. It's a new step towards control hunter. Though rogue also gets a kinda alternate hero power with headcrack it's not nearly as flexible and the tempo swing with this one is not as bad a shadowform or justicar.
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Soaking up a silence for 2 mana is fine with me. One less silence for your highmanes,shredders, or houndmaster'd creeper. Reminds me a lot of Dreadsteed, but more playable.
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I feel like Reno's place is in a specific fatigue deck (mage/priest/warrior) where you have your deck dedicated to outlasting with plenty of 2-ofs but able to save Reno for when your deck is down to just a few cards and you and the opponent are going into fatigue.
The possibility of a dead card for multiple turns is there but this is basically a cheaper Tree of Life that gives a body for these classes in the end-end-game.
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On November 12 2015 03:56 Cricketer12 wrote:
Reno seems really powerful in an aggro meta
I'd actually say it's stronger vs control. The card will just win a fatigue war. Modifying your deck to lose consistency seems like it'd kind of be a risk vs aggro.
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"Shaman also generally don’t have that many Battlecry minions to begin with unless you specifically put them in there."
Huh??????
Shamans play TONS of battlecry minions. Fire Elemental, Tuskarr Totemic, Azure Drake, Loatheb, Defender of Argus, Dr Boom, Neptulon -- all cards commonly seen in shaman lists.
I hate to say it.... But it needs to be said: how on earth could a "pro" make such a blatantly stupid comment? Welp, actually, hate to say this, too... But truths need to be spoken aloud: pros say a lot of stupid stuff -- ESPECIALLY when it comes to card reviews.
Rumbling Elemental is still bad, however.
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EPT
