Hello everyone and welcome to the first part of the League of Explorers card reviews. This will follow a similar format to the TGT card review where myself and a few other high-level players gave our initial takes on each card. We have changed our rating system somewhat after the feedback we got during TGT to hopefully make it more clear.
1=Unplayable
2=Almost certainly unplayable
3=Bad
4=Meh
5=Decent
6=Playable
7=Good
8=Very Good
9=Extremely Good
10=Overpowered
While this scale is not ideal -- and still somewhat subjective -- it allows us to differentiate more between low-quality cards than the previous scale and it makes it more clear just what a certain rating means. As a result, our average ratings are a lot higher than in TGT. Having said that, we are a lot more optimistic about this incoming set than about TGT so even if we would be using the old rating system, the average rating would still be higher. We are also no longer use the ‘’possible rating’’ we used in TGT because we have already seen all the cards coming out. This set of cards is less combo-oriented than the Inspire effects of TGT.
The big question every time a new set of cards are released is how much is it going to affect the current meta? While we were hoping that during TGT the meta would slow down enough to make Inspire viable, we don’t think the meta is going to change significantly because of this adventure. Given how Hearthstone works, whenever a new expansion releases, the average card quality of a high level deck increases. This doesn’t necessarily have to be because of power creep but just the mere fact that there are more available cards means that it will be easier to make more efficient decks. The difference between having a play on turn 2/3/4 and not having a play becomes bigger with every expansion. This in turn makes the influence of having the right early game draws on who wins the game bigger all the time. With the introduction of the Discover mechanic, Blizzard has given themselves some way to alleviate this issue. For example, a card like Jeweled Scarab -- or to a lesser degree Dark Peddler -- which guarantees a turn three play can help alleviate the issues with not having the right draws at the start of the game. Jeweled Scarab, however, doesn’t really fix this issue because of its incredibly poor stats.
Discover
While we have yet to see the Discover mechanic in action, as far as I know it works as follows:
You see three cards from a random pool of spells, minions and weapons (unless otherwise specified by the card you are playing). These cards can be both from the class you are playing and from the neutral card pool but not from any other class. You then choose one of these cards which gets transferred into your hand. One of the big unknowns though is whether or not the options presented are completely random or weighted towards class cards. If they are completely random, this would mean that the vast majority of options that you will get will be the weaker neutral cards. Having the Discover effect on your cards would, therefore, be weaker than if it was weighted towards class cards.
The other big question is how will this mechanic match up against just drawing a card from the top of your deck? On one hand, you have the option to choose a card with Discover; but on the other hand, the three options are on average way worse quality than the cards in your deck.We think that using Discover that can only get a certain kind of card will be better than just drawing a card from your deck whereas drawing a random spell or minion will be worse.
The Discover mechanic is a very interesting and good addition to the game for several reasons. The first is that it adds exactly the kind of RNG I think that the game needs: as outlined in my post on different aspects of RNG a few months ago. Discover both makes for having exciting moments because you will see cards that you generally don’t see as well as it promotes skillful decision making when it comes to playing cards with the Discover mechanic. The second reason is that it has the potential to make drawing the right curve less important since it offers an option to draw them for you.
At first glance this might look like an interesting risk-reward since you get to draw another card should you draw the Ancient Curse (Iron Juggernaut has similar wording). Ancient Shade's stats, however, are just too poor and it dies to all other four-drops so there is very little benefit from playing this card.
Playable In
Current Rating: 3
Anubisath Sentinel
If this effect was a Battlecry, this card could be good. Unfortunately this card is a Deathrattle which means quite often your opponent is the one who dictates when it goes off and can make it go to waste. The only deck that would want to play this -- and has enough minions to reliable use the Deathrattle by turn five -- is Zoo and they just have better late game options than this card.
Playable In
Priest Current Rating: 5
Djinni of Zephyrs
There are two classes that have playable buffs: Priest and Paladin. Paladin buffs are generally something you want to be casting on the same turn you attack; therefore, this card in a Paladin deck would require this minion and another minion to survive for a turn which is going to be rare.
For Priest, it is okay to just play a minion and buff it since Priest buffs mostly give health rather than attack. This card is somewhat win-more because it relies on having another minion alive when you use it and it relies on having a spell that is actually useful for that minion as well as this one. If the wording is correct, you will draw two cards from one Power Word Shield; however, that remains to be seen in practice.
Playable In
Zoo Warlock Current Rating: 5
Dark Peddler
As you can see in the discussion of the Discover mechanic, this type of cards can help you fill in if you don’t have anything to play in the early game. This card is restricted to Warlocks, however, so you could only run this in a Zoo-style Warlock where it is extremely rare for you not to have enough early game cards to use all your mana.
Playable In
Current Rating: 3
Jeweled Scarab
We think the idea behind this card is excellent. Since it guarantees you a three-drop you get punished less in this tempo-oriented meta if you don’t draw the right cards in the start of the game. While we like the idea, Scarab's stats are just too poor to justify playing it: playing this guy is essentially the same as playing a Hero Power on turn two. This is, however, a step in the right direction as it makes missing early drops less punishing.
Playable In
Control Warrior Current Rating: 5
Obsidian Destroyer
This card is essentially a worse version of Dr Boom which will give some more value over time. Obsidian Destroyer needs to stay alive for at least three turns in order to be better than Dr. Boom. This is in reality never going to happen. While this could be played in a Control Warrior, they will most likely have better options than this one.
Playable In
Current Rating: 3
Reno Jackson
This card is extremely gimmicky and not meant for competitive play. You can either have to build a deck around playing this or you have to wait until you have ten cards left and then pay good attention to what you have drawn (or use hearthtracker, Blizzard said they don’t want to implement any cues on whether or not his Battlecry will work). It’s stat points just aren’t good enough for a six mana minion and the Battlecry will almost never be used.
Playable In
Current Rating: 3
Rumbling Elemental
While this card looks okay on paper, its stat point is just not quite there: being two damage means he really doesn’t contest the board very well and he trades one-for-one with the many of the three-drops out there. Shaman also generally don’t have that many Battlecry minions to begin with unless you specifically put them in there. Lastly dealing two damage to a random enemy is just too weak -- especially since it can also hit face -- in which case it does essentially nothing.
Playable In
Current Rating: 3
Sacred Trial
All the Paladin secrets currently being played are really easy to trigger so it is fairly easy to figure out when this is on the board. Secondly Secret Paladin is an aggro deck so if you are behind enough for this secret to activate you will most likely already have lost the game.
Playable In
Current Rating: 2
Summoning Stone
Like Blizzard said during the announcement, this card is just there for the people who liked the Tavern Brawl. There is just no way that you can get this card to stick.
Playable In
Current Rating: 1
Explorer's Hat
This card is meant as a tool to give Hunters the repeatable value of a (non-face) Hero Power. This card is definitely an upgrade compared to other Hero Powers but the downside is that you can’t play it at will and that it is vulnerable to Silence. This card would be good with Lock & Load; however, time has shown that L&L decks just aren’t good and are inconsistent.
Playable In
Tempo Mage, Freeze Mage Current Rating: 7
Forgotten/Roaring Torch
This card has a completely new mechanic that is being introduced in this adventure where playing bad card A puts overpowered card B into your deck. This is an excellent example of sacrificing tempo for value later on. Freeze Mages often don’t have many plays on turns 3-5 outside of playing Secrets and a few low cost minions. This card might fill that gap. The downside of this card is that it relies on having a lot of draw because not only do you want to draw/play the Forgotten Torch but you also want to play the Roaring Torch. It seems good on paper in Freeze Mage, therefore, as a deck that generally draws most of its deck. The issue with this card in Freeze Mage is that there you generally are looking for Alex or Emperor and putting more cards into your deck makes the chance of drawing them smaller. On the other side of this lies the fatigue argument that Freeze Mage often loses against Warrior because he can just stack infinite armor. This card will delay the moment of Fatigue by a turn.
Thanks everyone for your time and if you have any questions/comments feel free to ask and we hope to see you again for the evaluation of the next batch of cards.
In addition to being a writer for Liquidhearth, Daisyx is head coach of ManaLight. You can follow him here:
I think the writer's are potentially underestimating Reno Jackson's ability. In control warrior, it wouldn't be particularly difficult to only have a limited number of cards at 2x. Then again, control warrior sometimes gets so much armor that they don't really need to heal from 20-30 life at the end of the game. I also think there's potential for Warlock to build a deck around this. It's better than bad, but we won't know if it's as good as playable until people start using it. If it's actually playable then it bumps up to at least good. It's either a 4 or a 7, but nothing in between.
Also, I'd bump Rumbling Elemental up to "Meh," but that's not too relevant for constructed play. I'd like to see two ratings for each card: constructed and arena. Anubisath Sentinel, Djinni of Zephyrs, Dark Peddler, and Jeweled Scarab all score higher as well for arena. Summoning Stone is actually even worse in arena.
I think the fact that Dark Peddler replaces itself in hand, and potentially by a spell instead of a minion, is being forgotten by the writer. It most DEFINITELY can see play in other decks, and even has a ton of potential in Handlock for the very reason I outlined above.
I can understand why, but I feel that the card evaluations were too focused on "can this slot into existing decks" rather than what new decks might appear.
For example, I can imagine a combo deck involving Djinni of Zephyrs emerging. One might not, but it has significant potential for classes beyond Priest/Paladin.
On November 12 2015 02:17 Firenza wrote: I think the writer's are potentially underestimating Reno Jackson's ability. In control warrior, it wouldn't be particularly difficult to only have a limited number of cards at 2x. Then again, control warrior sometimes gets so much armor that they don't really need to heal from 20-30 life at the end of the game. I also think there's potential for Warlock to build a deck around this. It's better than bad, but we won't know if it's as good as playable until people start using it. If it's actually playable then it bumps up to at least good. It's either a 4 or a 7, but nothing in between.
I think some players like JustSaiyan suggested that Reno Jackson could be useful in Freeze Mage.
On November 12 2015 02:17 Firenza wrote: I think the writer's are potentially underestimating Reno Jackson's ability. In control warrior, it wouldn't be particularly difficult to only have a limited number of cards at 2x. Then again, control warrior sometimes gets so much armor that they don't really need to heal from 20-30 life at the end of the game. I also think there's potential for Warlock to build a deck around this. It's better than bad, but we won't know if it's as good as playable until people start using it. If it's actually playable then it bumps up to at least good. It's either a 4 or a 7, but nothing in between.
Also, I'd bump Rumbling Elemental up to "Meh," but that's not too relevant for constructed play. I'd like to see two ratings for each card: constructed and arena. Anubisath Sentinel, Djinni of Zephyrs, Dark Peddler, and Jeweled Scarab all score higher as well for arena. Summoning Stone is actually even worse in arena.
@Firenza/dabom88 I don't know, I just think that no matter what deck you play you are going to have to give up a lot of cool stuff to be able to run him. If you run him in a deck where you both have to draw him AND make sure that there are no 2-offs for any card remaining, it will be very unlikely that you can properly play him.
I think control warrior has enough ways to gain armor back and therefore doesn't really need this to heal him. We discussed the argument that it would be strong in freeze mage, however freeze mage needs to run 2-offs of quite a lot of cards because you really can't go around cutting (that much) burn, so while it could possibly work in freeze mage a deck without sufficient burn would be highly inconsistent.
@Winkers Just because a card replaces itself in your hand it isn't good, this isn't even an argument, hand lock doesn't run any card draw mechanics simply because they have the hero power. Also will all the goodness that handlock has to play from turn 4 onwards there really wont be much room to play either Peddler or the 1-drop you get from it.
@Seuss I beg to differ, TGT introduced a lot more cards that hardly changed the meta and 1 mid-tier card surely isn't going to do that here either. I go pretty in-depth on why I think the meta isn't going to change. Also outside of priest/paladin there really are no classes with (semi)-viable buffs in the game
I think Reno Jackson is a card that's more likely to see tournament play than ladder play. You put him in Freeze Mage, replacing one healbot. If you're expecting the mirror or any form of warrior, it's a huge advantage, and the downside of losing one healbot for the midgame is unlikely to be that big in most other matchups, given how much you should be able to control the board.
The 7/7 is top tier lategame card for warrior in arena even if its essentially a worse hogger. If they dont remove it instantly on followig turn, you probably just win the game. Torch will see constructed and is good card. Generally stuff that can go either face or be used as removal is good. The rest of the cards are shit.
On November 12 2015 02:57 Daisyx wrote: @Seuss I beg to differ, TGT introduced a lot more cards that hardly changed the meta and 1 mid-tier card surely isn't going to do that here either. I go pretty in-depth on why I think the meta isn't going to change. Also outside of priest/paladin there really are no classes with (semi)-viable buffs in the game
If we're looking for a card that will miraculously spawn a top 3 deck (e.g. Grim Patron, Mysterious Challenger) then sure, there probably isn't one here. I still think the outlook on some of the cards is too narrow (particularly Djinni).
On November 12 2015 02:57 Daisyx wrote: @Seuss I beg to differ, TGT introduced a lot more cards that hardly changed the meta and 1 mid-tier card surely isn't going to do that here either. I go pretty in-depth on why I think the meta isn't going to change. Also outside of priest/paladin there really are no classes with (semi)-viable buffs in the game
If we're looking for a card that will miraculously spawn a top 3 deck (e.g. Grim Patron, Mysterious Challenger) then sure, there probably isn't one here. I still think the outlook on some of the cards is too narrow (particularly Djinni).
Issue is in Constructed you play cards with the expectation of them being dead by your next card. It helps Djinn is 6 health at 5 mana which means its annoying to deal with for the most part. But it severely limits its use with Shaman (Windfury / Rockbitter dream isn't gonna happen) and Paladin.
That said it works well with priest buffs and warrior in a burst damage scenario with Charge + Inner rage. That said Warrior already have the Worgen OTK / The Axe Flinger OTK / bunch of other OTK gimmicks so adding another isn't really doing much
It's not about adding another gimmick, but introducing flexibility. Take Worgen OTK as an example.
The Worgen OTK combo requires 6 cards: Raging Worgen, Charge!, 2 * Inner Rage, 2 * Rampage. Barring Thaurissan this costs 10 mana for 32 damage. Assembling all of that is difficult, and if your opponent has a taunt, or Ice Block, or some other obstacle there's nothing you can do.
However, Djinni can effectively stand in for multiple cards in the combo. With a Djinni on the board you can drop Worgen, Charge, and Inner Rage to do 27 damage for only 6 mana. With some help from Thaurissan you could even drop that same combo on an empty board.
Djinni is effectively a buff combo wildcard. It'll be standard in all buff-based OTK combo decks, but more importantly it'll have a place in buff-heavy decks that aren't necessarily looking to do 30 damage all at once.
is this just all based on card utility? cuz i dont think the rating is utterly fair in this case... especially when basing on what deck these cards could be played in the current meta
Well, if you don't play a lot of 2 of's you will not have that many armor in the first place, so Reno might heal your Control Warrio quite a bit. 😀 Most of the essential 2 of's are rather low mana, if you replace 1 sludge and 1 shield maiden, Reno should work by the time you want to play him.
It's not about adding another gimmick, but introducing flexibility. Take Worgen OTK as an example.
The Worgen OTK combo requires 6 cards: Raging Worgen, Charge!, 2 * Inner Rage, 2 * Rampage. Barring Thaurissan this costs 10 mana for 32 damage. Assembling all of that is difficult, and if your opponent has a taunt, or Ice Block, or some other obstacle there's nothing you can do.
However, Djinni can effectively stand in for multiple cards in the combo. With a Djinni on the board you can drop Worgen, Charge, and Inner Rage to do 27 damage for only 6 mana. With some help from Thaurissan you could even drop that same combo on an empty board.
Djinni is effectively a buff combo wildcard. It'll be standard in all buff-based OTK combo decks, but more importantly it'll have a place in buff-heavy decks that aren't necessarily looking to do 30 damage all at once.
I think you're missing what's being said. A OTK is not about having minions on the board, it's about being able to kill the opponent from an empty board at full health and with your view then Djinni becomes yet another combo piece that is a dead card for the rest of the game.
Also the point has already been made (and is kind of assumed for constructed play) that any card you play that is not ridiculously well defended for it's cost will be removed immediately. Djinni is great if you can combo but is entirely reliant on having existing minions on the board, which is an unrealistic expectation at turn 5.
On November 12 2015 07:07 Garak911 wrote: Well, if you don't play a lot of 2 of's you will not have that many armor in the first place, so Reno might heal your Control Warrio quite a bit. 😀 Most of the essential 2 of's are rather low mana, if you replace 1 sludge and 1 shield maiden, Reno should work by the time you want to play him.
Not a bad point, but you are weakening the deck significantly by removing those two cards. Sludge is a sticky taunt (the best kind of taunt) and Shieldmaiden is just a fantastic all round card. Both of these are almost always great turn 5/6 plays but Reno is very rarely playable on curve so the overall card quality of your deck takes a drop.
If Scarab were a 1/2 he'd played a lot in hunter, with the ability to hit more consistently those 3 drops, kill command, animal companions, unleashes and even deadly shot.
These ratings historically skew low due to the best ideas not being known until after experimentation. Justicar, for instance, was given an initial rating of 3 with the potential to go up to 5.
i always find these liquidhearth reviews and "decks of the month" to be pretty terrible. i wouldn't be surprised if most of these ratings were way off.
On November 12 2015 07:07 Garak911 wrote: Well, if you don't play a lot of 2 of's you will not have that many armor in the first place, so Reno might heal your Control Warrio quite a bit. 😀 Most of the essential 2 of's are rather low mana, if you replace 1 sludge and 1 shield maiden, Reno should work by the time you want to play him.
Not a bad point, but you are weakening the deck significantly by removing those two cards. Sludge is a sticky taunt (the best kind of taunt) and Shieldmaiden is just a fantastic all round card. Both of these are almost always great turn 5/6 plays but Reno is very rarely playable on curve so the overall card quality of your deck takes a drop.
Yeah, maybe not worth it. You could use Arcane Nullifier instead of 1 Sludge, wich is also hard to remove and good for your curve. Shield Maiden could be replaced by Reno hinmself. But for Reno to work reliably you would probably have to also remove other things that you don't necessarily keep on mulligan, like Execute, Shield Block, Shield Slam. That will most likely hurt simply too much to be made up by the times you are going to heal up against aggro. That said, Reno can turn around a lost game like no other 6 mana card in the game.
i like Reno, one of the better cards in my expansion.
One thing people dont seem to mention, is that some classes have multiple cards with the same purpose, and some are just prefered to others (even if they are just slightly worse)
Take for example warrior. As removal - you could use Shield slam, Execute, Bouncing blade, Big game hunter, Crush. As weapons - you have Arcanite reaper, The new one drop, Fiery war axe, Gorehowl, Deaths bite.
You wont fill your decks with 8 weapons, 4-5 seems enough, thats why currently the better ones are used - Deaths bite and Fiery. Arcanite reaper and gorehowl arent terrible, and could potentially be used too, Its the same with cards like crush and execute, which turns out to be slightly better (and therefore played more) - that doesnt mean Crush isnt situationally useful though. - sometimes crush will work better.
Take 4 drops for example. Sure 2 Piloted shredders are great, but there are some 4 drops in game (like Yeti) that do actually fare quite similarly to piloted shredder. - even Sen jin shieldmasta isnt THAT much worse.
- Fact is, many cards are similar in power level - and the even very slightly better one is used as a 2 of.
Another thing to mention is, that as more and more cards are implemented, more cards that overlap in role are given.
On November 12 2015 08:28 Circumstance wrote: These ratings historically skew low due to the best ideas not being known until after experimentation. Justicar, for instance, was given an initial rating of 3 with the potential to go up to 5.
lets be honest though.
We want these cards to work, but most of them are simply not good enough. Mysterious challenger was underestimated, but a lot of people said "he could end up beeing really broken" before hand.
Cards like Anubisath sentinel, the shade, explorers hat and the likes - all have some specific use that will end up beeing terrible when you try it. 4-4 for 5, with potential +3+3.
Or shredder, 4-3 for 4, and a potential 3-2, 4-4 and so on.
Blizzard sucks at designing playable cards. 5% of the cards are actually playable.
These ratings historically skew low due to the best ideas not being known until after experimentation. Justicar, for instance, was given an initial rating of 3 with the potential to go up to 5.
To be fair, that card is about a 4. It was only OP in Warrior and minorly interesting in Priest and Paladin but generally it goes unplayed except for CW.
I can see why Reno would be kind of bad. People overvalue heals in their head. Every heal spell is usually underplayed except a few rare cases. Healing Wave is borderline OP but doesn't see play, Earthen Ring is only played by very new players, Alexstrasa is played because she can also take your opponent down.
So, what you are telling me is I need to get totally lucky to play on turn 20 with no duplicate cards, OR have to sacrifice all my good cards and play 30 unique ones, or I get a mediocre 4/6 body. I don't know, seems really gimmicky as the OP said.
What shocks me is nobody has taken them to task over the Explorers Hat. That has huge game changing possibilities and its so shortsighted to make ranked a 1. You should have ranked it a 4 but now you just expose yourselves to such embarrassment.
If any of these goofy cards has a chance to define the meta its Explorers Hat. It goes with Feign Death, goes with Baron Rivendare, it can be duplicated, gotten from L&L, driven down in mana cost. I think you could see a control Hunter or hybrid throwing out hats like nobodies business, might end up being a tier 2 deck at least which is easily better than a 1.
Totally wrong. Maybe this 1 was click bait I don't know, its just so wrong IMHO. We'll have to see I guess.
These ratings historically skew low due to the best ideas not being known until after experimentation. Justicar, for instance, was given an initial rating of 3 with the potential to go up to 5.
What shocks me is nobody has taken them to task over the Explorers Hat. That has huge game changing possibilities and its so shortsighted to make ranked a 1. You should have ranked it a 4 but now you just expose yourselves to such embarrassment.
If any of these goofy cards has a chance to define the meta its Explorers Hat. It goes with Feign Death, goes with Baron Rivendare, it can be duplicated, gotten from L&L, driven down in mana cost. I think you could see a control Hunter or hybrid throwing out hats like nobodies business, might end up being a tier 2 deck at least which is easily better than a 1.
Totally wrong. Maybe this 1 was click bait I don't know, its just so wrong IMHO. We'll have to see I guess.
I agree with some but not all of your points (for instance Earthen Ring Farseer goes in an out of the meta at times) but the reason Explorer's Hat was so low valued is that it's both poorly mana costed and counter-intuitive to current Hunter decks. What you're aiming for is maximum value with any given card and to do so with this card is problematic to say the least. 2 mana for a 1/1 buff is overvalued (think Shattered Sun Cleric) so you would need to gain a lot of synergy from the deathrattle, something which requires cards that are not commonly played and otherwise poor value, Baron Rivendare and Feign Death being two such cards.
On a side note, I love the idea of it. As someone who's played a bit of Magic in the past I see buffs and recycling cards are two things not common in Hearthstone at the moment but could easily fit in.
On November 12 2015 07:07 Garak911 wrote: Well, if you don't play a lot of 2 of's you will not have that many armor in the first place, so Reno might heal your Control Warrio quite a bit. 😀 Most of the essential 2 of's are rather low mana, if you replace 1 sludge and 1 shield maiden, Reno should work by the time you want to play him.
Not a bad point, but you are weakening the deck significantly by removing those two cards. Sludge is a sticky taunt (the best kind of taunt) and Shieldmaiden is just a fantastic all round card. Both of these are almost always great turn 5/6 plays but Reno is very rarely playable on curve so the overall card quality of your deck takes a drop.
Yeah, maybe not worth it. You could use Arcane Nullifier instead of 1 Sludge, wich is also hard to remove and good for your curve. Shield Maiden could be replaced by Reno hinmself. But for Reno to work reliably you would probably have to also remove other things that you don't necessarily keep on mulligan, like Execute, Shield Block, Shield Slam. That will most likely hurt simply too much to be made up by the times you are going to heal up against aggro. That said, Reno can turn around a lost game like no other 6 mana card in the game.
And that is the very definition of a gimmick. And I think it's great that Blizzard are putting more and more into their card game! Gimmicks make for interesting play and more experimentation, which can occasionally toss up absolute gems like Mysterious Challenger and Malygos Warlock.
I think Reno would be quite easy to fit into current control warrior decks. I play a greedy almost fatigue warrior and I can see him fitting right in. In fact if I had him I'd probably use him in my current deck.
Execute Shield Slam Slam Fiery War Axe Armorsmith Shield Block Bash Acolyte of Pain Death's Bite Piloted Shredder Sledge Belcher Brawl Shieldmaiden
Of those I would argue that only Execute, Shield Slam, Death's Bite, and sledge Belcher are irreplaceable 2 ofs. Its not uncommon for people to run Gorehowl over second FWA. Armorsmith might be hard to replace maybe Revenge, Whirlwind or Zombie Chow. Don't know what I'd replace Slam with, maybe Bouncing Blades. Most decks run either 2 Shield Blocks or Bash's, so now one of each. Acolyte of Pain can be 1 of or dropped. Piloted Shredder can be an easy 1 or 0 of. Brawl can be 1 of. Shieldmaiden can be replaced with Justicar or Reno himself.
So that's 4 maybe 6 cards that you need to have drawn either copy of to play Reno. Doesn't seem that hard. I feel like he'll be really strong. It's such a big heal vs any sort of aggro. I know I've faced countless aggro decks that I was like 2 more mana to Alexstrasza and I'll win the game. Playing a Reno for like 15/20 hp heal on turn 7 or 8 will be even stronger than a max 14 heal from Alexstrasza. This card will auto win you vs aggro as soon as you play him.
Because you have such a big heal available you can be extra greedy for the late game and be greedier there so it would help both match ups.
These ratings historically skew low due to the best ideas not being known until after experimentation. Justicar, for instance, was given an initial rating of 3 with the potential to go up to 5.
To be fair, that card is about a 4. It was only OP in Warrior and minorly interesting in Priest and Paladin but generally it goes unplayed except for CW.
I can see why Reno would be kind of bad. People overvalue heals in their head. Every heal spell is usually underplayed except a few rare cases. Healing Wave is borderline OP but doesn't see play, Earthen Ring is only played by very new players, Alexstrasa is played because she can also take your opponent down.
So, what you are telling me is I need to get totally lucky to play on turn 20 with no duplicate cards, OR have to sacrifice all my good cards and play 30 unique ones, or I get a mediocre 4/6 body. I don't know, seems really gimmicky as the OP said.
What shocks me is nobody has taken them to task over the Explorers Hat. That has huge game changing possibilities and its so shortsighted to make ranked a 1. You should have ranked it a 4 but now you just expose yourselves to such embarrassment.
If any of these goofy cards has a chance to define the meta its Explorers Hat. It goes with Feign Death, goes with Baron Rivendare, it can be duplicated, gotten from L&L, driven down in mana cost. I think you could see a control Hunter or hybrid throwing out hats like nobodies business, might end up being a tier 2 deck at least which is easily better than a 1.
Totally wrong. Maybe this 1 was click bait I don't know, its just so wrong IMHO. We'll have to see I guess.
Explorer's hat is a new hero power but vulnerable to silence. It's a new step towards control hunter. Though rogue also gets a kinda alternate hero power with headcrack it's not nearly as flexible and the tempo swing with this one is not as bad a shadowform or justicar.
Soaking up a silence for 2 mana is fine with me. One less silence for your highmanes,shredders, or houndmaster'd creeper. Reminds me a lot of Dreadsteed, but more playable.
I feel like Reno's place is in a specific fatigue deck (mage/priest/warrior) where you have your deck dedicated to outlasting with plenty of 2-ofs but able to save Reno for when your deck is down to just a few cards and you and the opponent are going into fatigue.
The possibility of a dead card for multiple turns is there but this is basically a cheaper Tree of Life that gives a body for these classes in the end-end-game.
On November 12 2015 03:56 Cricketer12 wrote: Reno seems really powerful in an aggro meta
I'd actually say it's stronger vs control. The card will just win a fatigue war. Modifying your deck to lose consistency seems like it'd kind of be a risk vs aggro.
"Shaman also generally don’t have that many Battlecry minions to begin with unless you specifically put them in there."
Huh??????
Shamans play TONS of battlecry minions. Fire Elemental, Tuskarr Totemic, Azure Drake, Loatheb, Defender of Argus, Dr Boom, Neptulon -- all cards commonly seen in shaman lists.
I hate to say it.... But it needs to be said: how on earth could a "pro" make such a blatantly stupid comment? Welp, actually, hate to say this, too... But truths need to be spoken aloud: pros say a lot of stupid stuff -- ESPECIALLY when it comes to card reviews.
These ratings historically skew low due to the best ideas not being known until after experimentation. Justicar, for instance, was given an initial rating of 3 with the potential to go up to 5.
To be fair, that card is about a 4. It was only OP in Warrior and minorly interesting in Priest and Paladin but generally it goes unplayed except for CW.
I can see why Reno would be kind of bad. People overvalue heals in their head. Every heal spell is usually underplayed except a few rare cases. Healing Wave is borderline OP but doesn't see play, Earthen Ring is only played by very new players, Alexstrasa is played because she can also take your opponent down.
So, what you are telling me is I need to get totally lucky to play on turn 20 with no duplicate cards, OR have to sacrifice all my good cards and play 30 unique ones, or I get a mediocre 4/6 body. I don't know, seems really gimmicky as the OP said.
What shocks me is nobody has taken them to task over the Explorers Hat. That has huge game changing possibilities and its so shortsighted to make ranked a 1. You should have ranked it a 4 but now you just expose yourselves to such embarrassment.
If any of these goofy cards has a chance to define the meta its Explorers Hat. It goes with Feign Death, goes with Baron Rivendare, it can be duplicated, gotten from L&L, driven down in mana cost. I think you could see a control Hunter or hybrid throwing out hats like nobodies business, might end up being a tier 2 deck at least which is easily better than a 1.
Totally wrong. Maybe this 1 was click bait I don't know, its just so wrong IMHO. We'll have to see I guess.
Pretty incorrect about Earthen Ring... #1 NA Legend was playing him yesterday in rogue. Also our friendly 5 mana healbot is played as a 2 of in handlock.
On November 12 2015 23:46 shini96 wrote: Blizzard has historically released the most OP set of adventure cards in the first wing, so I believe these are much better cards than you think.
Huh I didn't know Maexenna / Poison seeds / Anub'ar Ambusher / Nerubar weblord were OP.
It's not about adding another gimmick, but introducing flexibility. Take Worgen OTK as an example.
The Worgen OTK combo requires 6 cards: Raging Worgen, Charge!, 2 * Inner Rage, 2 * Rampage. Barring Thaurissan this costs 10 mana for 32 damage. Assembling all of that is difficult, and if your opponent has a taunt, or Ice Block, or some other obstacle there's nothing you can do.
However, Djinni can effectively stand in for multiple cards in the combo. With a Djinni on the board you can drop Worgen, Charge, and Inner Rage to do 27 damage for only 6 mana. With some help from Thaurissan you could even drop that same combo on an empty board.
Djinni is effectively a buff combo wildcard. It'll be standard in all buff-based OTK combo decks, but more importantly it'll have a place in buff-heavy decks that aren't necessarily looking to do 30 damage all at once.
I think you're missing what's being said. A OTK is not about having minions on the board, it's about being able to kill the opponent from an empty board at full health and with your view then Djinni becomes yet another combo piece that is a dead card for the rest of the game.
Also the point has already been made (and is kind of assumed for constructed play) that any card you play that is not ridiculously well defended for it's cost will be removed immediately. Djinni is great if you can combo but is entirely reliant on having existing minions on the board, which is an unrealistic expectation at turn 5.
OTK decks that don't care about having minions on the board do so because they're too busy trying to cycle the deck for the ridiculous number of cards they need to pull off their combos. The only "OTK" deck that does this competitively is Freeze Mage, and it's not even a OTK because it relies on Alexstraza for setup. It's also flexible, often winning long before it assembles its ideal combo.
My point is that Djinni offers that kind of flexibility to other OTK decks (though maybe not in sufficient quantity to make a sufficient difference yet), and also opens up more Savage Roar+Force of Nature style threats. You can build decks around lower damage combos, and use Djinni as a wildcard to either double the damage of the combo or buy time.
Reno is not meant to fatigue Decks. In Fatigue war's, he only wins 1-2 turns tops. Still impossible to beat Tank Up or echo-Healbot. He is a gimmick card that may or may not work in the right deck(like Ice Block ones). Reno is a legendary, which means if he isn't draw by T6~T8 vs agro it makes no difference (around 40% chance, up to 50% using mulligan).
Whenever is better to run both Healbots or him is also questionable, but he has some potential.
On November 12 2015 08:28 Circumstance wrote: These ratings historically skew low due to the best ideas not being known until after experimentation. Justicar, for instance, was given an initial rating of 3 with the potential to go up to 5.
Anyone who thinks Reno Jackson is even REMOTELY viable really needs to take a look at the math.
With only THREE duplicates in your deck (which is REALLY REALLY hard to pull off already, looking at standard decklists. Most have at least 5 must-have two-of's), the chances of drawing Reno and at least one of each duplicate in your first TWENTY cards is under 50%.
Interesting Senzari, thats a lot worse than i initially thought. But since you have to draw one of each 2 of's one could have guessed that the chances of getting the effect would actually be rather slim. I would be interested in a probability chart for this issue. How would mulligan affect the outcome if you sent back all 1 of's but kept all 2of's? Still, a one of everything Warrior could be quite fun. Not "viable", but you do gain in the unpredictability department
It's not about adding another gimmick, but introducing flexibility. Take Worgen OTK as an example.
The Worgen OTK combo requires 6 cards: Raging Worgen, Charge!, 2 * Inner Rage, 2 * Rampage. Barring Thaurissan this costs 10 mana for 32 damage. Assembling all of that is difficult, and if your opponent has a taunt, or Ice Block, or some other obstacle there's nothing you can do.
However, Djinni can effectively stand in for multiple cards in the combo. With a Djinni on the board you can drop Worgen, Charge, and Inner Rage to do 27 damage for only 6 mana. With some help from Thaurissan you could even drop that same combo on an empty board.
Djinni is effectively a buff combo wildcard. It'll be standard in all buff-based OTK combo decks, but more importantly it'll have a place in buff-heavy decks that aren't necessarily looking to do 30 damage all at once.
I think you're missing what's being said. A OTK is not about having minions on the board, it's about being able to kill the opponent from an empty board at full health and with your view then Djinni becomes yet another combo piece that is a dead card for the rest of the game.
Also the point has already been made (and is kind of assumed for constructed play) that any card you play that is not ridiculously well defended for it's cost will be removed immediately. Djinni is great if you can combo but is entirely reliant on having existing minions on the board, which is an unrealistic expectation at turn 5.
OTK decks that don't care about having minions on the board do so because they're too busy trying to cycle the deck for the ridiculous number of cards they need to pull off their combos. The only "OTK" deck that does this competitively is Freeze Mage, and it's not even a OTK because it relies on Alexstraza for setup. It's also flexible, often winning long before it assembles its ideal combo.
My point is that Djinni offers that kind of flexibility to other OTK decks (though maybe not in sufficient quantity to make a sufficient difference yet), and also opens up more Savage Roar+Force of Nature style threats. You can build decks around lower damage combos, and use Djinni as a wildcard to either double the damage of the combo or buy time.
I'm going to leave the conversation here, but please do try to use Djinni in the way you're thinking! It could surprise us all and become a staple, but on face value it seems like a card with weak stats but a high mana cost and unreasonable conditions to see the pay off from the ability.
Reno could definitely make some new decks. To be fair, theres quite a bit of decks that wouldnt suffer that much from replacing some of the duplicates and only leave 2 early gane duplicates in there. Shaman and pally for example could make it work.
Forgotten torch seems particulary awesome is freeze and fatique mage. I think dark peddler is actually good. Its 2 mana draw a card in zoolock, since the tempo/board control oriented playstyle really does give 1 drops value. Someone calculated that the chance you get a decent/great one drop is like 95%+ and the chance for a great 1 drop is like 40%. The fact that you can choose depending on the situation makes it really strong. 2/2 draw a card is amazing, and as I said, in zoo the 1 drop really is a card.
On November 13 2015 08:59 Garak911 wrote: Interesting Senzari, thats a lot worse than i initially thought. But since you have to draw one of each 2 of's one could have guessed that the chances of getting the effect would actually be rather slim. I would be interested in a probability chart for this issue. How would mulligan affect the outcome if you sent back all 1 of's but kept all 2of's? Still, a one of everything Warrior could be quite fun. Not "viable", but you do gain in the unpredictability department
I think you've understood the card better than most Senzari. Blizzard did not design this for high level competitive play, they designed it to appear in Trolden videos and get people enjoying trying new deck builds. And I am really looking forward to seeing the 1 to 30 health swing from a Reno Jackson play!
While I think these ratings may be a bit overly-negative, it's hard to really argue with them in most cases. The problem with Hearthstone in general is that Blizzard are really bad at balancing it; as a result only about 10-20% of the cards in the game are actually played at all and everything else falls under the blanket rating of "worthless" by comparison.
On November 12 2015 04:57 csoszak wrote: The 7/7 is top tier lategame card for warrior in arena even if its essentially a worse hogger. If they dont remove it instantly on followig turn, you probably just win the game.
They will remove it instantly on the following turn.
On November 13 2015 09:26 Arcane Azmadi wrote: While I think these ratings may be a bit overly-negative, it's hard to really argue with them in most cases. The problem with Hearthstone in general is that Blizzard are really bad at balancing it; as a result only about 10-20% of the cards in the game are actually played at all and everything else falls under the blanket rating of "worthless" by comparison.
On November 12 2015 04:57 csoszak wrote: The 7/7 is top tier lategame card for warrior in arena even if its essentially a worse hogger. If they dont remove it instantly on followig turn, you probably just win the game.
They will remove it instantly on the following turn.
Also, Dr Boom exists, so it's worthless.
He obv said Arena. Also why not add some common so newer players can play some control warrior. People are always so negative it gets really annoying.
I've been sitting on it and I think the hat is actually better than it's gotten credit for. It effectively allows the Hunter to ignore their HP (which is how they win games with all decks currently established) and try another style of play based around efficient trades and the like. I honestly would be thrilled to see some innovation as a result (from someone better at Hunter than myself).
On November 13 2015 10:24 Mortal wrote: I've been sitting on it and I think the hat is actually better than it's gotten credit for. It effectively allows the Hunter to ignore their HP (which is how they win games with all decks currently established) and try another style of play based around efficient trades and the like. I honestly would be thrilled to see some innovation as a result (from someone better at Hunter than myself).
I would agree if it was +2/+2 or 1 mana but at the same time it's a tricky card to balance that way. Unfortunately as it is you're paying 2 mana for 1.5 mana worth of card (+1/+1 in the early game is worth 1 mana and the death rattle doesn't add a lot to the board state), so every use makes it less efficient. Hunter isn't really designed to reach fatigue (so an "immortal" card is not as useful) and the hero power is such a viable option in the early game that the inefficiency just is not attractive in the super tight 2 mana spot.
I've said before that I like the idea of the card but balancing this to be useful but not broken is very difficult. Hopefully they keep introducing cards like it.
On November 13 2015 13:37 BlacKcuD wrote: Reno Jackson should be somewhat playable in Control/Varian Warrior doesn't it?
Only if you build around it. There are so many cards you want 2 of in the early game of control warrior, armour is generally considered a priority over healing anyway and it's such a conditionally good card that it may see experimentation but I doubt it will see play at a professional level.
On November 13 2015 09:26 Arcane Azmadi wrote: While I think these ratings may be a bit overly-negative, it's hard to really argue with them in most cases. The problem with Hearthstone in general is that Blizzard are really bad at balancing it; as a result only about 10-20% of the cards in the game are actually played at all and everything else falls under the blanket rating of "worthless" by comparison.
On November 12 2015 11:58 weikor wrote:
Blizzard sucks at designing playable cards. 5% of the cards are actually playable.
I don't know why people are hating on Blizzard because the cards released aren't immediately perfect for high level tournament play...
I look at some of these and I am genuinely excited to think I may draft them in Arena or through a Shredder/Portal/Paletress. Look at cards like Force Tank Maxx and North Sea Kraken and you see that Blizzard is not intending for every card to be auto-drafts in tournament decks.
If you've played any other card game you know that the majority of any new release is going to be niche at best and the optimal decks will be discovered over time.
On November 13 2015 13:37 BlacKcuD wrote: Reno Jackson should be somewhat playable in Control/Varian Warrior doesn't it?
I've heard people say that, but I don't know why people consider Control Warrior to be easier to run 1-of's than other classes. Beyond that, Warrior is probably the class that needs a full heal the least, as they already have a multitude of ways to gain armor, which is kind of counterproductive to Reno's effect.
My thoughts either it needs to be run in a deck that plans on drawing most (if not all) of its cards, such as Freeze Mage or Mill Rogue. Mill Rogue isn't much of a thing, but it doesn't need Reno Jackson anyway, as Brann Bronzebeard + endless Antique Healbots should suffice for healing (and really I doubt that the deck will become relevant even with Brann).
Aside from that, more "normal" decks might be able to use Reno if they can construct a deck that has only a couple of 2-of's, all of which are cards you will definitely keep or mulligan for in the mulligan phase. For example, could a Paladin get by with 2 Shielded Minibot, 2 Muster for Battle, and 1 of the rest of their cards? I think it's definitely possible, as Paladin has such a deep bench right now.
2 Muster for Battle Coghammer Aldor Peacekeeper Big Game Hunter Divine Favor
Truesilver Champion Consecrate Blessing of Kings Piloted Shredder Murloc Knight Keeper of Uldamon (when it comes out)
Loatheb Sludge Belcher Quartermaster
Reno Jackson Mysterious Challenger Justicar Trueheart Sylvanas
Dr. Boom
Tirion
Then there are tech cards like Kezan Mystic (which I think is quite good in Paladin to shore up their particular weaknesses), Harrison Jones / Acidic Swamp Ooze, If you wanna go heavier there are a ton of options in the 6+ slots, as well as Equality.
The question is how much does losing the other 2-of's hurt. Also I haven't done the math on it yet, so I'm not sure how likely it is to get Reno to work even if you only have something like 2 doubles that you aggressively mulligan for.
On November 13 2015 17:44 Solmyr wrote: Guys this will be newb question.
I have 2 previous expansions but I decided maybe I will not buy this one. Well i have like 350 gold and the cards might be arena quality....
Can you craft cards from League if you did not buy it? Becouse it seems I can't do that.
No. You have to buy the expansion with real money or with gold. The cards can't be individually crafted with dust. If you have bought the expansion though you can craft golden versions of the cards with your dust
On November 13 2015 09:26 Arcane Azmadi wrote: While I think these ratings may be a bit overly-negative, it's hard to really argue with them in most cases. The problem with Hearthstone in general is that Blizzard are really bad at balancing it; as a result only about 10-20% of the cards in the game are actually played at all and everything else falls under the blanket rating of "worthless" by comparison.
Blizzard sucks at designing playable cards. 5% of the cards are actually playable.
I don't know why people are hating on Blizzard because the cards released aren't immediately perfect for high level tournament play...
I look at some of these and I am genuinely excited to think I may draft them in Arena or through a Shredder/Portal/Paletress. Look at cards like Force Tank Maxx and North Sea Kraken and you see that Blizzard is not intending for every card to be auto-drafts in tournament decks.
If you've played any other card game you know that the majority of any new release is going to be niche at best and the optimal decks will be discovered over time.
It's especially strange when you think about the fact that the hearthstone format is eternal, the best deck with the previous cards are mostly figured out and there is only room for 30 cards in any deck. The only way a new card is going to make it into constructed play is by creating a new or previously unviable archetype(mech decks, Math (Patron) Warriror) or being flat out better than the existing best cards in the slot(Shiedlded Minibot over whatever Paladins had to make do with before GvG, Piloted Shredder over Yeti, arguably Dr. Boom over nobody used 7 drops), which would be the bad kind of powercreep and just turn into a vicious cycle. The third option is adding to a nonviable archetype but not sufficiently that it becomes viable yet but the possibility for that to happen in future expansions is opened up (Dragon Decks in BRM, Voidcaller before GvG, maybe the Battlecrystuff in LoE, maybe the buff synergy type cards). But this last group probably is already trash in the eyes of people dismissing any card that doesn't make the cut in constructed.
I just played against a freeze mage who ran Reno Jackson. I thought it was fairly clever because you can play him after your second Ice Block pops and eventually buy another life. At this point, you often have only one ofs left. Might not be too viable in an agressive meta (where Healbot should be better) but in tournament play could be really good.
Savjz currently is winning left and right with Reno Jackson in some warlock mix. That said, he's incredibly lucky. He drew Reno Jackson like 6 games in a row before or at turn 6, while (as far as I remember) not drawing cards like Jaraxxus (which he has) once.
Reno looked OP at the games he got it (i.e. all I have seen so far), though.
It's not about adding another gimmick, but introducing flexibility. Take Worgen OTK as an example.
The Worgen OTK combo requires 6 cards: Raging Worgen, Charge!, 2 * Inner Rage, 2 * Rampage. Barring Thaurissan this costs 10 mana for 32 damage. Assembling all of that is difficult, and if your opponent has a taunt, or Ice Block, or some other obstacle there's nothing you can do.
However, Djinni can effectively stand in for multiple cards in the combo. With a Djinni on the board you can drop Worgen, Charge, and Inner Rage to do 27 damage for only 6 mana. With some help from Thaurissan you could even drop that same combo on an empty board.
Djinni is effectively a buff combo wildcard. It'll be standard in all buff-based OTK combo decks, but more importantly it'll have a place in buff-heavy decks that aren't necessarily looking to do 30 damage all at once.
I think you're missing what's being said. A OTK is not about having minions on the board, it's about being able to kill the opponent from an empty board at full health and with your view then Djinni becomes yet another combo piece that is a dead card for the rest of the game.
Also the point has already been made (and is kind of assumed for constructed play) that any card you play that is not ridiculously well defended for it's cost will be removed immediately. Djinni is great if you can combo but is entirely reliant on having existing minions on the board, which is an unrealistic expectation at turn 5.
OTK decks that don't care about having minions on the board do so because they're too busy trying to cycle the deck for the ridiculous number of cards they need to pull off their combos. The only "OTK" deck that does this competitively is Freeze Mage, and it's not even a OTK because it relies on Alexstraza for setup. It's also flexible, often winning long before it assembles its ideal combo.
My point is that Djinni offers that kind of flexibility to other OTK decks (though maybe not in sufficient quantity to make a sufficient difference yet), and also opens up more Savage Roar+Force of Nature style threats. You can build decks around lower damage combos, and use Djinni as a wildcard to either double the damage of the combo or buy time.
I'm going to leave the conversation here, but please do try to use Djinni in the way you're thinking! It could surprise us all and become a staple, but on face value it seems like a card with weak stats but a high mana cost and unreasonable conditions to see the pay off from the ability.
I'm working on it, but so far the only thing I've discovered is that Explorer's Hat + Djinni of Zephyrs + Baron Rivendare + Feign Death is hilarious. Completely silly, but hilarious.
Why would you build a terrible deck that takes a beating from standard deck andt hen needs reno to heal back up. Instead just build a solid deck that doesn't even loose hat much life to begin with Oo
On November 12 2015 23:35 BirosHS wrote: Summoning Stone in freeze mage? Play it with frost nova. Blizzard next turn. Flamestrike next turn. I think that can be a new win condition.
But what would you cut for it? Alex? The second blizzard? Ice Lances?
It's also rather weak vs silence, and is still kind of situational. (since a lot of the time it'll just die without frost nova). I'm thinking it'll have a better home in some kind of Malygos deck (zeus shaman maybe?) where it can provide a new win condition in spaces where something doesn't exist instead of competing with existing cards (which I don't feel it can really do).
On November 14 2015 01:55 The_Masked_Shrimp wrote: Why would you build a terrible deck that takes a beating from standard deck andt hen needs reno to heal back up. Instead just build a solid deck that doesn't even loose hat much life to begin with Oo
These aren't trivial cards to replace, but I think it can be done. + Show Spoiler +
Ironbeak Owl -> Seal of Light / Spellbreaker
Shielded Minibot -> Annoy-o-Tron / Seal of Champions
Muster for Battle -> Haunted Creeper
Aldor Peacekeeper -> Reno Jackson
Truesilver Champion -> Hammer of Wrath
Consecration -> Mind Control Tech / Avenging Wrath
Defender of Argus -> Sunfury Protector
Piloted Shredder -> Keeper of Uldaman
Sludge Belcher -> Loatheb / Justicar Trueheart
I based the substitutions as much as I could on Strifecro and Xzirez's decklists. Obviously some slots are more easily replaced than others. Consecration and Muster in particular are the most impactful, and I'd seriously consider doubling up on one or the other (but not both, given how quickly the math on Reno becomes awful if you do).
Classes less dependent upon intercard synergy or more ways of achieving it can probably do a better job of putting together a viable decklist for Reno.
On November 14 2015 04:02 Drazerk wrote: Guys not to hype up mill rogue more than I already do...
But Djinn copies Gang Up meaning you get +6 cards to your deck per Gang Up
It'll also duplicate Naturalize if you cast it on your own minion (don't do this it's awful)!
I've been running a Reno deck successfully as Warlock with a mid-rangey kind of deck. It may only be viable right now because everyone is kind of playing sub-par decks.
On November 14 2015 11:45 mythandier wrote: I've been running a Reno deck successfully as Warlock with a mid-rangey kind of deck. It may only be viable right now because everyone is kind of playing sub-par decks.
Still the amount of decks that have popped up with Reno Jackson is crazy. Reno Freeze Mage, Reno Zoo-ish Warlock, Reno Mill/Fatigue Rogue (I'm currently playing that :p), Reno fatigue Warrior... Yeah, the card doesn't fit in well with existing decks. But who would have thought that a heal for 20+ hp together with a body that actually even has reasonable stats for VERY little mana could be powerful enough to make playing a subpar deck worth.
Also I love that this cards adds to deck variety. Everyone was playing 2 of what was considered the best cards, but with Reno people realize that having a bit more diversity is not actually hurting the consistency that much at all, instead it makes the decks even more versatile. Suddenly you don't get stuck with twice the same card in hand but have options depending on situations. I do love this new card!
So far I'm 12 wins 8 losses (60%)as my Reno deck at rank 4-3. About the same win % as my old deck ( about 3% lower). Of those Reno's effect single handedly won 4 games by himself by healing me for 20+ vs aggro. In another two games I probably would have loss without him.
So far having him feels superior to my previous deck. Most of my losses came to secret pally which even in my old deck I could almost never beat anyways. If we take out the auto-loss matchup of secret pally the deck is 12-4 or 75% which is really good. More testing needs to be done, and this is still a tiny amount of games, but this looks very promising to me.
Still need to play around with how many 2of's my deck can have and still see use out of reno. For these 20 games I ran 3. (Shield Slam, Execute, and Death's Bite) Haven't really missed the other cards so much.
Jeweled Scarab is a lot better then expected. Most 3 drops are situational usefull (Thoughsteal, Shadow Word: Death, Dark Cultist, BGH, Mind Control Tech, Shade of Naxxaramas, Deathlord, Oracle, Acolyte of Pain, etc). Great sinnergy with Bran as well. Alongside with Museum Curator, Battlecry priest might actually be a thing.
On November 15 2015 10:46 Hellonslaught wrote: Jeweled Scarab is a lot better then expected. Most 3 drops are situational usefull (Thoughsteal, Shadow Word: Death, Dark Cultist, BGH, Mind Control Tech, Shade of Naxxaramas, Deathlord, Oracle, Acolyte of Pain, etc). Great sinnergy with Bran as well. Alongside with Museum Curator, Battlecry priest might actually be a thing.
Yup, I agree. And I think the hidden winner of the Jeweled Scarab sweepstakes is Shaman.
Just think about their situational 3 drops: Hex, Lightning Storm, Elemental Destruction, Feral Spirits, Healing Wave, Lava Burst to instantly remove a 5 drop or extra burn later, Mana Tide Totem, Tuskar Totemic to repopulate board.
And interestingly, a lot of times it is left on the board if there are other minions, so it is easy target for Flametongue Totem or Rock Biter to trade up.
I'm playing Dark Peddler in a demonzoo. Early game, it helps filling your curve and gives you more option to zerg the board whithout having to tap, and later on, it can give you the extra reach you need with Soulfire and Power Overwhelming. I won a game turn 6 with triple PO on a Stonetusk Boar, Garrosh was not amused. (Guldan was lol)
Also, Explorer's Hat is preeeetty good...in tempo mage !
apparently you can crash the game if you encounter a board like this... (Pretty much never gonna happen) Also means we will likely never see a spell discover card
To see how good Reno Jackson is, check out SuperJJs freeze mage deck from Teamstory Cup happening right now. His Freeze Mage is currently 3/0 in the grand finals.
apparently you can crash the game if you encounter a board like this... (Pretty much never gonna happen) Also means we will likely never see a spell discover card
I don't follow. What does that have to do with spell discover cards?
Moreover, the very first fight in the adventure involves being given spell discover cards, including one that chooses from spells. So we've already seen them.
Not to mention that functionally there's almost no difference between them and Tracking or any of Druid's "Choose One" spells.
apparently you can crash the game if you encounter a board like this... (Pretty much never gonna happen) Also means we will likely never see a spell discover card
I don't follow. What does that have to do with spell discover cards?
Moreover, the very first fight in the adventure involves being given spell discover cards, including one that chooses from spells. So we've already seen them.
Not to mention that functionally there's almost no difference between them and Tracking or any of Druid's "Choose One" spells.
I don't understand what that has to do with spell discover? It's just interrupting when discover happens which messes the game up. In any case I don't see why that bug can't be fixed.
Also, something I kept thinking about when reading through the first page of 'YOU ARE TOO PESSIMISTIC' - all the comments from TGT where even the optimistic people were like 'How can you hate this card but give garbage like Mysterious Challenger a 6?'.
Predictions are tough and I don't fault people for getting them wrong. It's pretty natural to be conservative in predictions because, it's easier to defend undershooting as compared to hyping up a card that fails to delive (SEE: Varian).
apparently you can crash the game if you encounter a board like this... (Pretty much never gonna happen) Also means we will likely never see a spell discover card
I don't follow. What does that have to do with spell discover cards?
Moreover, the very first fight in the adventure involves being given spell discover cards, including one that chooses from spells. So we've already seen them.
Not to mention that functionally there's almost no difference between them and Tracking or any of Druid's "Choose One" spells.
its much easier and more common to abuse Violet Teacher to crash the game than it is Illidan Stormrage both of which work the exact same way
Although I guess you'd not be interupting anything and i'm a moron for thinking of ways to crash my opponents game easily *whistles*
On November 17 2015 03:21 Seuss wrote: Predictions are tough and I don't fault people for getting them wrong. It's pretty natural to be conservative in predictions because, it's easier to defend undershooting as compared to hyping up a card that fails to delive (SEE: Varian).
A good example of the opposite is people underestimating the cards that really needed to see practice before seeing how good it was. Mysterious Challenger is a good example of this. People just underestimated the power of playing 5 cards from your deck could be. This is fairly comparable to the pre-release evaluation of Reno.
And then you have hidden mechanics that Blizzard never told you about that would have greatly effected the evaluation in the pre-release. An example of this is the Grim Patron. Warsong Commander had gone more than 2 patch cycles of not granting Charge to minions that weren't played from the hand. All of a sudden, Warsong Commander is fixed before Grim Patron's release. Nobody expected a change would come so suddenly, so you can't fault them for not evaluating it correctly.
Something that's comparable in LOE would be the Discover mechanic. As Ben Brode confirmed, Class Cards are 4x more likely to be offered, which alters the evaluation significantly. Brode agrees that that's information that definitely should have been revealed beforehand.
On November 13 2015 08:59 Garak911 wrote: Interesting Senzari, thats a lot worse than i initially thought. But since you have to draw one of each 2 of's one could have guessed that the chances of getting the effect would actually be rather slim. I would be interested in a probability chart for this issue. How would mulligan affect the outcome if you sent back all 1 of's but kept all 2of's? Still, a one of everything Warrior could be quite fun. Not "viable", but you do gain in the unpredictability department
I think you've understood the card better than most Senzari. Blizzard did not design this for high level competitive play, they designed it to appear in Trolden videos and get people enjoying trying new deck builds. And I am really looking forward to seeing the 1 to 30 health swing from a Reno Jackson play!
I had this situation happen to me this weekend with a Warlock at 1hp. I proceeded to win anyways but it felt pretty bad on my end
On November 18 2015 02:59 Eggi wrote: Just btw with people getting on the hype train and stuff.
Reno is more of a tournament card than anything. It can be a good tech vs the different metagame of tournaments.
Ladder is a whole nother hunter story
I am having great results with Renolock on ladder - just ranked up from 11-5, though I probably could have done with a number of other decks as well, I am really enjoying this card, and the fact that your deck is so diverse!
On November 12 2015 02:22 Winkers wrote: I think the fact that Dark Peddler replaces itself in hand, and potentially by a spell instead of a minion, is being forgotten by the writer. It most DEFINITELY can see play in other decks, and even has a ton of potential in Handlock for the very reason I outlined above.
and the warlock 1 drops are pretty good, so you will almost always get a good card. I think this card is underrated in this list. I see it played in almost every warlock deck.
On November 18 2015 02:59 Eggi wrote: Just btw with people getting on the hype train and stuff.
Reno is more of a tournament card than anything. It can be a good tech vs the different metagame of tournaments.
Ladder is a whole nother hunter story
I am having great results with Renolock on ladder - just ranked up from 11-5, though I probably could have done with a number of other decks as well, I am really enjoying this card, and the fact that your deck is so diverse!
Me as well. I think it also has to do with people not playing around Reno, but the decks are so much fun. You can play so many different cards and the swings are obv insane. I am playing the mage version with iceblock. Biggest gamechanger since Emperor. It was hard to tell but in hindsight this card is at least "playable".
Reno heals for whatever your current max HP is not just a flat 30 or what the max HP should be. Something to remember when cards allow you to go past 30 HP
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