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League of Explorers Card Review: Wing One

Forum Index > Hearthstone General
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Daisyx
Profile Joined May 2015
0 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-11-11 17:25:53
November 11 2015 16:47 GMT
#1
Turn off Focus ModeFocus Mode
















Liquidhearth Presents

League of Explorers Card reviews

The first wing

by Daisyx

Introduction


Hello everyone and welcome to the first part of the League of Explorers card reviews. This will follow a similar format to the TGT card review where myself and a few other high-level players gave our initial takes on each card. We have changed our rating system somewhat after the feedback we got during TGT to hopefully make it more clear.

  • 1=Unplayable
  • 2=Almost certainly unplayable
  • 3=Bad
  • 4=Meh
  • 5=Decent
  • 6=Playable
  • 7=Good
  • 8=Very Good
  • 9=Extremely Good
  • 10=Overpowered

While this scale is not ideal -- and still somewhat subjective -- it allows us to differentiate more between low-quality cards than the previous scale and it makes it more clear just what a certain rating means. As a result, our average ratings are a lot higher than in TGT. Having said that, we are a lot more optimistic about this incoming set than about TGT so even if we would be using the old rating system, the average rating would still be higher. We are also no longer use the ‘’possible rating’’ we used in TGT because we have already seen all the cards coming out. This set of cards is less combo-oriented than the Inspire effects of TGT.

Today’s guests are:
  • Deathstar v3, creator of the Midrange Hunter with Deathlord [image loading] [image loading]
  • SenX, creator of the SenX Hunter [image loading] [image loading]
  • Ersee, creator of the Midrange Shaman with Neptulon
  • Modernleper, Team Archon writer [image loading]

Meta Changes


The big question every time a new set of cards are released is how much is it going to affect the current meta? While we were hoping that during TGT the meta would slow down enough to make Inspire viable, we don’t think the meta is going to change significantly because of this adventure. Given how Hearthstone works, whenever a new expansion releases, the average card quality of a high level deck increases. This doesn’t necessarily have to be because of power creep but just the mere fact that there are more available cards means that it will be easier to make more efficient decks. The difference between having a play on turn 2/3/4 and not having a play becomes bigger with every expansion. This in turn makes the influence of having the right early game draws on who wins the game bigger all the time. With the introduction of the Discover mechanic, Blizzard has given themselves some way to alleviate this issue. For example, a card like Jeweled Scarab -- or to a lesser degree Dark Peddler -- which guarantees a turn three play can help alleviate the issues with not having the right draws at the start of the game. Jeweled Scarab, however, doesn’t really fix this issue because of its incredibly poor stats.

Discover

While we have yet to see the Discover mechanic in action, as far as I know it works as follows:

You see three cards from a random pool of spells, minions and weapons (unless otherwise specified by the card you are playing). These cards can be both from the class you are playing and from the neutral card pool but not from any other class. You then choose one of these cards which gets transferred into your hand. One of the big unknowns though is whether or not the options presented are completely random or weighted towards class cards. If they are completely random, this would mean that the vast majority of options that you will get will be the weaker neutral cards. Having the Discover effect on your cards would, therefore, be weaker than if it was weighted towards class cards.

The other big question is how will this mechanic match up against just drawing a card from the top of your deck? On one hand, you have the option to choose a card with Discover; but on the other hand, the three options are on average way worse quality than the cards in your deck.We think that using Discover that can only get a certain kind of card will be better than just drawing a card from your deck whereas drawing a random spell or minion will be worse.

The Discover mechanic is a very interesting and good addition to the game for several reasons. The first is that it adds exactly the kind of RNG I think that the game needs: as outlined in my post on different aspects of RNG a few months ago. Discover both makes for having exciting moments because you will see cards that you generally don’t see as well as it promotes skillful decision making when it comes to playing cards with the Discover mechanic. The second reason is that it has the potential to make drawing the right curve less important since it offers an option to draw them for you.

Here are the individual rankings for each player:
+ Show Spoiler +


Card Rankings


[image loading]

Playable In



Current Rating: 3


Ancient Shade


At first glance this might look like an interesting risk-reward since you get to draw another card should you draw the Ancient Curse (Iron Juggernaut has similar wording). Ancient Shade's stats, however, are just too poor and it dies to all other four-drops so there is very little benefit from playing this card.




[image loading]

Playable In



Current Rating: 3


Anubisath Sentinel


If this effect was a Battlecry, this card could be good. Unfortunately this card is a Deathrattle which means quite often your opponent is the one who dictates when it goes off and can make it go to waste. The only deck that would want to play this -- and has enough minions to reliable use the Deathrattle by turn five -- is Zoo and they just have better late game options than this card.




[image loading]

Playable In

Priest

Current Rating: 5


Djinni of Zephyrs


There are two classes that have playable buffs: Priest and Paladin. Paladin buffs are generally something you want to be casting on the same turn you attack; therefore, this card in a Paladin deck would require this minion and another minion to survive for a turn which is going to be rare.

For Priest, it is okay to just play a minion and buff it since Priest buffs mostly give health rather than attack. This card is somewhat win-more because it relies on having another minion alive when you use it and it relies on having a spell that is actually useful for that minion as well as this one. If the wording is correct, you will draw two cards from one Power Word Shield; however, that remains to be seen in practice.




[image loading]

Playable In

Zoo Warlock

Current Rating: 5


Dark Peddler


As you can see in the discussion of the Discover mechanic, this type of cards can help you fill in if you don’t have anything to play in the early game. This card is restricted to Warlocks, however, so you could only run this in a Zoo-style Warlock where it is extremely rare for you not to have enough early game cards to use all your mana.




[image loading]

Playable In



Current Rating: 3


Jeweled Scarab


We think the idea behind this card is excellent. Since it guarantees you a three-drop you get punished less in this tempo-oriented meta if you don’t draw the right cards in the start of the game. While we like the idea, Scarab's stats are just too poor to justify playing it: playing this guy is essentially the same as playing a Hero Power on turn two. This is, however, a step in the right direction as it makes missing early drops less punishing.




[image loading]

Playable In

Control Warrior

Current Rating: 5


Obsidian Destroyer


This card is essentially a worse version of Dr Boom which will give some more value over time. Obsidian Destroyer needs to stay alive for at least three turns in order to be better than Dr. Boom. This is in reality never going to happen. While this could be played in a Control Warrior, they will most likely have better options than this one.




[image loading]

Playable In



Current Rating: 3


Reno Jackson


This card is extremely gimmicky and not meant for competitive play. You can either have to build a deck around playing this or you have to wait until you have ten cards left and then pay good attention to what you have drawn (or use hearthtracker, Blizzard said they don’t want to implement any cues on whether or not his Battlecry will work). It’s stat points just aren’t good enough for a six mana minion and the Battlecry will almost never be used.




[image loading]

Playable In



Current Rating: 3


Rumbling Elemental


While this card looks okay on paper, its stat point is just not quite there: being two damage means he really doesn’t contest the board very well and he trades one-for-one with the many of the three-drops out there. Shaman also generally don’t have that many Battlecry minions to begin with unless you specifically put them in there. Lastly dealing two damage to a random enemy is just too weak -- especially since it can also hit face -- in which case it does essentially nothing.




[image loading]

Playable In



Current Rating: 3


Sacred Trial


All the Paladin secrets currently being played are really easy to trigger so it is fairly easy to figure out when this is on the board. Secondly Secret Paladin is an aggro deck so if you are behind enough for this secret to activate you will most likely already have lost the game.




[image loading]

Playable In



Current Rating: 2


Summoning Stone


Like Blizzard said during the announcement, this card is just there for the people who liked the Tavern Brawl. There is just no way that you can get this card to stick.




[image loading]

Playable In



Current Rating: 1


Explorer's Hat


This card is meant as a tool to give Hunters the repeatable value of a (non-face) Hero Power. This card is definitely an upgrade compared to other Hero Powers but the downside is that you can’t play it at will and that it is vulnerable to Silence. This card would be good with Lock & Load; however, time has shown that L&L decks just aren’t good and are inconsistent.




[image loading]

Playable In

Tempo Mage, Freeze Mage

Current Rating: 7


Forgotten/Roaring Torch


This card has a completely new mechanic that is being introduced in this adventure where playing bad card A puts overpowered card B into your deck. This is an excellent example of sacrificing tempo for value later on. Freeze Mages often don’t have many plays on turns 3-5 outside of playing Secrets and a few low cost minions. This card might fill that gap. The downside of this card is that it relies on having a lot of draw because not only do you want to draw/play the Forgotten Torch but you also want to play the Roaring Torch. It seems good on paper in Freeze Mage, therefore, as a deck that generally draws most of its deck. The issue with this card in Freeze Mage is that there you generally are looking for Alex or Emperor and putting more cards into your deck makes the chance of drawing them smaller. On the other side of this lies the fatigue argument that Freeze Mage often loses against Warrior because he can just stack infinite armor. This card will delay the moment of Fatigue by a turn.



Thanks everyone for your time and if you have any questions/comments feel free to ask and we hope to see you again for the evaluation of the next batch of cards.

In addition to being a writer for Liquidhearth, Daisyx is head coach of ManaLight. You can follow him here:

[image loading]
Writer: Daisyx
Panelists: Deathstarv3 Ersee Modernleper SenX
Graphics: Hayl
Editors: Hayl
dabom88
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
United States3483 Posts
November 11 2015 16:57 GMT
#2
What about the Explorer's Hat and Forgotten Torch you get right away for getting the first wing?
You should not have to pay to watch the GSL, Proleague, or OSL at a reasonable time. That is not "fine" and it's BS to say otherwise. My sig since 2011. http://www.youtube.com/user/dabom88
LackotSC2
Profile Joined June 2013
Spain0 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-11-11 17:01:03
November 11 2015 17:00 GMT
#3
Thijs said blizzard think Torch is OP, so they deleted it.

I also think that the new cards will change the meta a lot.

We will see the other wings
Daisyx
Profile Joined May 2015
0 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-11-11 17:48:41
November 11 2015 17:05 GMT
#4
Yea, due to my error I forgot they would be released with the first wing as well, they have been added now
Firenza
Profile Joined October 2011
United States51 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-11-11 17:18:08
November 11 2015 17:17 GMT
#5
I think the writer's are potentially underestimating Reno Jackson's ability. In control warrior, it wouldn't be particularly difficult to only have a limited number of cards at 2x. Then again, control warrior sometimes gets so much armor that they don't really need to heal from 20-30 life at the end of the game. I also think there's potential for Warlock to build a deck around this. It's better than bad, but we won't know if it's as good as playable until people start using it. If it's actually playable then it bumps up to at least good. It's either a 4 or a 7, but nothing in between.

Also, I'd bump Rumbling Elemental up to "Meh," but that's not too relevant for constructed play. I'd like to see two ratings for each card: constructed and arena. Anubisath Sentinel, Djinni of Zephyrs, Dark Peddler, and Jeweled Scarab all score higher as well for arena. Summoning Stone is actually even worse in arena.
Winkers
Profile Joined August 2011
United States1 Post
November 11 2015 17:22 GMT
#6
I think the fact that Dark Peddler replaces itself in hand, and potentially by a spell instead of a minion, is being forgotten by the writer. It most DEFINITELY can see play in other decks, and even has a ton of potential in Handlock for the very reason I outlined above.
Quote?
Seuss
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States10536 Posts
November 11 2015 17:40 GMT
#7
I can understand why, but I feel that the card evaluations were too focused on "can this slot into existing decks" rather than what new decks might appear.

For example, I can imagine a combo deck involving Djinni of Zephyrs emerging. One might not, but it has significant potential for classes beyond Priest/Paladin.
"I am not able to carry all this people alone, for they are too heavy for me." -Moses (Numbers 11:14)
dabom88
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
United States3483 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-11-11 17:56:54
November 11 2015 17:47 GMT
#8
On November 12 2015 02:17 Firenza wrote:
I think the writer's are potentially underestimating Reno Jackson's ability. In control warrior, it wouldn't be particularly difficult to only have a limited number of cards at 2x. Then again, control warrior sometimes gets so much armor that they don't really need to heal from 20-30 life at the end of the game. I also think there's potential for Warlock to build a deck around this. It's better than bad, but we won't know if it's as good as playable until people start using it. If it's actually playable then it bumps up to at least good. It's either a 4 or a 7, but nothing in between.

I think some players like JustSaiyan suggested that Reno Jackson could be useful in Freeze Mage.
You should not have to pay to watch the GSL, Proleague, or OSL at a reasonable time. That is not "fine" and it's BS to say otherwise. My sig since 2011. http://www.youtube.com/user/dabom88
Daisyx
Profile Joined May 2015
0 Posts
November 11 2015 17:57 GMT
#9
On November 12 2015 02:17 Firenza wrote:
I think the writer's are potentially underestimating Reno Jackson's ability. In control warrior, it wouldn't be particularly difficult to only have a limited number of cards at 2x. Then again, control warrior sometimes gets so much armor that they don't really need to heal from 20-30 life at the end of the game. I also think there's potential for Warlock to build a deck around this. It's better than bad, but we won't know if it's as good as playable until people start using it. If it's actually playable then it bumps up to at least good. It's either a 4 or a 7, but nothing in between.

Also, I'd bump Rumbling Elemental up to "Meh," but that's not too relevant for constructed play. I'd like to see two ratings for each card: constructed and arena. Anubisath Sentinel, Djinni of Zephyrs, Dark Peddler, and Jeweled Scarab all score higher as well for arena. Summoning Stone is actually even worse in arena.


@Firenza/dabom88 I don't know, I just think that no matter what deck you play you are going to have to give up a lot of cool stuff to be able to run him. If you run him in a deck where you both have to draw him AND make sure that there are no 2-offs for any card remaining, it will be very unlikely that you can properly play him.

I think control warrior has enough ways to gain armor back and therefore doesn't really need this to heal him.
We discussed the argument that it would be strong in freeze mage, however freeze mage needs to run 2-offs of quite a lot of cards because you really can't go around cutting (that much) burn, so while it could possibly work in freeze mage a deck without sufficient burn would be highly inconsistent.

@Winkers Just because a card replaces itself in your hand it isn't good, this isn't even an argument, hand lock doesn't run any card draw mechanics simply because they have the hero power. Also will all the goodness that handlock has to play from turn 4 onwards there really wont be much room to play either Peddler or the 1-drop you get from it.

@Seuss
I beg to differ, TGT introduced a lot more cards that hardly changed the meta and 1 mid-tier card surely isn't going to do that here either. I go pretty in-depth on why I think the meta isn't going to change. Also outside of priest/paladin there really are no classes with (semi)-viable buffs in the game
Roe
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
Canada6002 Posts
November 11 2015 18:03 GMT
#10
For Djinn of zephyrs don't forget shamans have castable spells ><
Cricketer12
Profile Blog Joined May 2012
United States13970 Posts
November 11 2015 18:56 GMT
#11
Reno seems really powerful in an aggro meta
Kaina + Drones Linkcro Summon Cupsie Yummy Way
Rechact
Profile Joined May 2014
Canada0 Posts
November 11 2015 19:04 GMT
#12
I think Reno Jackson is a card that's more likely to see tournament play than ladder play. You put him in Freeze Mage, replacing one healbot. If you're expecting the mirror or any form of warrior, it's a huge advantage, and the downside of losing one healbot for the midgame is unlikely to be that big in most other matchups, given how much you should be able to control the board.
Eggi
Profile Blog Joined December 2012
478 Posts
November 11 2015 19:22 GMT
#13
Reno Jackson will see play. Not sure why you said it wouldnt.

The 7/7 is just a dr.boom replacement for the plebs
csoszak
Profile Joined May 2012
Sweden1 Post
November 11 2015 19:57 GMT
#14
The 7/7 is top tier lategame card for warrior in arena even if its essentially a worse hogger. If they dont remove it instantly on followig turn, you probably just win the game. Torch will see constructed and is good card. Generally stuff that can go either face or be used as removal is good. The rest of the cards are shit.
Every build has a hardcounter. Cheesing is important for the metagame
Asha
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United Kingdom38194 Posts
November 11 2015 19:57 GMT
#15
Definitely excited to test Torch out in a variety of mage decks
Seuss
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States10536 Posts
November 11 2015 20:04 GMT
#16
On November 12 2015 02:57 Daisyx wrote:
@Seuss
I beg to differ, TGT introduced a lot more cards that hardly changed the meta and 1 mid-tier card surely isn't going to do that here either. I go pretty in-depth on why I think the meta isn't going to change. Also outside of priest/paladin there really are no classes with (semi)-viable buffs in the game


If we're looking for a card that will miraculously spawn a top 3 deck (e.g. Grim Patron, Mysterious Challenger) then sure, there probably isn't one here. I still think the outlook on some of the cards is too narrow (particularly Djinni).
"I am not able to carry all this people alone, for they are too heavy for me." -Moses (Numbers 11:14)
Drazerk
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United Kingdom31255 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-11-11 20:21:25
November 11 2015 20:20 GMT
#17
On November 12 2015 05:04 Seuss wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 12 2015 02:57 Daisyx wrote:
@Seuss
I beg to differ, TGT introduced a lot more cards that hardly changed the meta and 1 mid-tier card surely isn't going to do that here either. I go pretty in-depth on why I think the meta isn't going to change. Also outside of priest/paladin there really are no classes with (semi)-viable buffs in the game


If we're looking for a card that will miraculously spawn a top 3 deck (e.g. Grim Patron, Mysterious Challenger) then sure, there probably isn't one here. I still think the outlook on some of the cards is too narrow (particularly Djinni).

Issue is in Constructed you play cards with the expectation of them being dead by your next card. It helps Djinn is 6 health at 5 mana which means its annoying to deal with for the most part. But it severely limits its use with Shaman (Windfury / Rockbitter dream isn't gonna happen) and Paladin.

That said it works well with priest buffs and warrior in a burst damage scenario with Charge + Inner rage. That said Warrior already have the Worgen OTK / The Axe Flinger OTK / bunch of other OTK gimmicks so adding another isn't really doing much
Seuss
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States10536 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-11-11 21:20:44
November 11 2015 21:19 GMT
#18
It's not about adding another gimmick, but introducing flexibility. Take Worgen OTK as an example.

The Worgen OTK combo requires 6 cards: Raging Worgen, Charge!, 2 * Inner Rage, 2 * Rampage. Barring Thaurissan this costs 10 mana for 32 damage. Assembling all of that is difficult, and if your opponent has a taunt, or Ice Block, or some other obstacle there's nothing you can do.

However, Djinni can effectively stand in for multiple cards in the combo. With a Djinni on the board you can drop Worgen, Charge, and Inner Rage to do 27 damage for only 6 mana. With some help from Thaurissan you could even drop that same combo on an empty board.

Djinni is effectively a buff combo wildcard. It'll be standard in all buff-based OTK combo decks, but more importantly it'll have a place in buff-heavy decks that aren't necessarily looking to do 30 damage all at once.
"I am not able to carry all this people alone, for they are too heavy for me." -Moses (Numbers 11:14)
Advantageous
Profile Blog Joined May 2012
China1350 Posts
November 11 2015 21:46 GMT
#19
is this just all based on card utility? cuz i dont think the rating is utterly fair in this case... especially when basing on what deck these cards could be played in the current meta
"Because I am BossToss" -MC ヽ༼ຈل͜ຈ༽ノ raise your dongers ヽ༼ຈل͜ຈ༽ノ I'm sure that all of my fellow class mates viewed me as the Adonis of the Class of 2015 already. -Xenocider, EG, ieF 2013 Champion.
Garak911
Profile Joined March 2014
Germany0 Posts
November 11 2015 22:07 GMT
#20
Well, if you don't play a lot of 2 of's you will not have that many armor in the first place, so Reno might heal your Control Warrio quite a bit. 😀
Most of the essential 2 of's are rather low mana, if you replace 1 sludge and 1 shield maiden, Reno should work by the time you want to play him.
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