|
On November 12 2015 12:39 Vaudevillain2 wrote:Show nested quote +These ratings historically skew low due to the best ideas not being known until after experimentation. Justicar, for instance, was given an initial rating of 3 with the potential to go up to 5. To be fair, that card is about a 4. It was only OP in Warrior and minorly interesting in Priest and Paladin but generally it goes unplayed except for CW. I can see why Reno would be kind of bad. People overvalue heals in their head. Every heal spell is usually underplayed except a few rare cases. Healing Wave is borderline OP but doesn't see play, Earthen Ring is only played by very new players, Alexstrasa is played because she can also take your opponent down. So, what you are telling me is I need to get totally lucky to play on turn 20 with no duplicate cards, OR have to sacrifice all my good cards and play 30 unique ones, or I get a mediocre 4/6 body. I don't know, seems really gimmicky as the OP said. What shocks me is nobody has taken them to task over the Explorers Hat. That has huge game changing possibilities and its so shortsighted to make ranked a 1. You should have ranked it a 4 but now you just expose yourselves to such embarrassment. If any of these goofy cards has a chance to define the meta its Explorers Hat. It goes with Feign Death, goes with Baron Rivendare, it can be duplicated, gotten from L&L, driven down in mana cost. I think you could see a control Hunter or hybrid throwing out hats like nobodies business, might end up being a tier 2 deck at least which is easily better than a 1. Totally wrong. Maybe this 1 was click bait I don't know, its just so wrong IMHO. We'll have to see I guess.
Pretty incorrect about Earthen Ring... #1 NA Legend was playing him yesterday in rogue. Also our friendly 5 mana healbot is played as a 2 of in handlock.
|
Summoning Stone in freeze mage? Play it with frost nova. Blizzard next turn. Flamestrike next turn. I think that can be a new win condition.
|
Blizzard has historically released the most OP set of adventure cards in the first wing, so I believe these are much better cards than you think.
|
United Kingdom31255 Posts
On November 12 2015 23:46 shini96 wrote:
Blizzard has historically released the most OP set of adventure cards in the first wing, so I believe these are much better cards than you think.
Huh I didn't know Maexenna / Poison seeds / Anub'ar Ambusher / Nerubar weblord were OP.
Wing 4 was easily the OP wing of naxx
|
On November 12 2015 07:10 MrSandman wrote:Show nested quote +On November 12 2015 06:19 Seuss wrote:+ Show Spoiler +It's not about adding another gimmick, but introducing flexibility. Take Worgen OTK as an example.
The Worgen OTK combo requires 6 cards: Raging Worgen, Charge!, 2 * Inner Rage, 2 * Rampage. Barring Thaurissan this costs 10 mana for 32 damage. Assembling all of that is difficult, and if your opponent has a taunt, or Ice Block, or some other obstacle there's nothing you can do. However, Djinni can effectively stand in for multiple cards in the combo. With a Djinni on the board you can drop Worgen, Charge, and Inner Rage to do 27 damage for only 6 mana. With some help from Thaurissan you could even drop that same combo on an empty board. Djinni is effectively a buff combo wildcard. It'll be standard in all buff-based OTK combo decks, but more importantly it'll have a place in buff-heavy decks that aren't necessarily looking to do 30 damage all at once. I think you're missing what's being said. A OTK is not about having minions on the board, it's about being able to kill the opponent from an empty board at full health and with your view then Djinni becomes yet another combo piece that is a dead card for the rest of the game. Also the point has already been made (and is kind of assumed for constructed play) that any card you play that is not ridiculously well defended for it's cost will be removed immediately. Djinni is great if you can combo but is entirely reliant on having existing minions on the board, which is an unrealistic expectation at turn 5.
OTK decks that don't care about having minions on the board do so because they're too busy trying to cycle the deck for the ridiculous number of cards they need to pull off their combos. The only "OTK" deck that does this competitively is Freeze Mage, and it's not even a OTK because it relies on Alexstraza for setup. It's also flexible, often winning long before it assembles its ideal combo.
My point is that Djinni offers that kind of flexibility to other OTK decks (though maybe not in sufficient quantity to make a sufficient difference yet), and also opens up more Savage Roar+Force of Nature style threats. You can build decks around lower damage combos, and use Djinni as a wildcard to either double the damage of the combo or buy time.
|
Reno is not meant to fatigue Decks. In Fatigue war's, he only wins 1-2 turns tops. Still impossible to beat Tank Up or echo-Healbot.
He is a gimmick card that may or may not work in the right deck(like Ice Block ones). Reno is a legendary, which means if he isn't draw by T6~T8 vs agro it makes no difference (around 40% chance, up to 50% using mulligan).
Whenever is better to run both Healbots or him is also questionable, but he has some potential.
|
United Kingdom31255 Posts
To be honest Bran + Healbot / Shieldmaiden is probably the stronger play for a lot of control decks anyway
|
Yeah, i was thinking a lot about Bran + Healbot/Vendor/Farseer myself.
|
Would flamewaker trigger twice if you play Djinni + spare part?
|
On November 13 2015 02:12 meijin wrote:
Would flamewaker trigger twice if you play Djinni + spare part?
Yes, I think so, though the wording is a bit ambiguous
|
On November 12 2015 08:28 Circumstance wrote:
These ratings historically skew low due to the best ideas not being known until after experimentation. Justicar, for instance, was given an initial rating of 3 with the potential to go up to 5.
Justicar is at least an 8!
|
Anyone who thinks Reno Jackson is even REMOTELY viable really needs to take a look at the math.
With only THREE duplicates in your deck (which is REALLY REALLY hard to pull off already, looking at standard decklists. Most have at least 5 must-have two-of's), the chances of drawing Reno and at least one of each duplicate in your first TWENTY cards is under 50%.
|
Reno is just a fun card to build weird decks with a lot of single cards. I think the ratings are pretty spot on. Most of these look pretty bad.
|
Interesting Senzari, thats a lot worse than i initially thought. But since you have to draw one of each 2 of's one could have guessed that the chances of getting the effect would actually be rather slim.
I would be interested in a probability chart for this issue. How would mulligan affect the outcome if you sent back all 1 of's but kept all 2of's?
Still, a one of everything Warrior could be quite fun.
Not "viable", but you do gain in the unpredictability department 
|
On November 13 2015 00:39 Seuss wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On November 12 2015 07:10 MrSandman wrote:Show nested quote +On November 12 2015 06:19 Seuss wrote:+ Show Spoiler +It's not about adding another gimmick, but introducing flexibility. Take Worgen OTK as an example.
The Worgen OTK combo requires 6 cards: Raging Worgen, Charge!, 2 * Inner Rage, 2 * Rampage. Barring Thaurissan this costs 10 mana for 32 damage. Assembling all of that is difficult, and if your opponent has a taunt, or Ice Block, or some other obstacle there's nothing you can do. However, Djinni can effectively stand in for multiple cards in the combo. With a Djinni on the board you can drop Worgen, Charge, and Inner Rage to do 27 damage for only 6 mana. With some help from Thaurissan you could even drop that same combo on an empty board. Djinni is effectively a buff combo wildcard. It'll be standard in all buff-based OTK combo decks, but more importantly it'll have a place in buff-heavy decks that aren't necessarily looking to do 30 damage all at once. I think you're missing what's being said. A OTK is not about having minions on the board, it's about being able to kill the opponent from an empty board at full health and with your view then Djinni becomes yet another combo piece that is a dead card for the rest of the game. Also the point has already been made (and is kind of assumed for constructed play) that any card you play that is not ridiculously well defended for it's cost will be removed immediately. Djinni is great if you can combo but is entirely reliant on having existing minions on the board, which is an unrealistic expectation at turn 5. OTK decks that don't care about having minions on the board do so because they're too busy trying to cycle the deck for the ridiculous number of cards they need to pull off their combos. The only "OTK" deck that does this competitively is Freeze Mage, and it's not even a OTK because it relies on Alexstraza for setup. It's also flexible, often winning long before it assembles its ideal combo. My point is that Djinni offers that kind of flexibility to other OTK decks (though maybe not in sufficient quantity to make a sufficient difference yet), and also opens up more Savage Roar+Force of Nature style threats. You can build decks around lower damage combos, and use Djinni as a wildcard to either double the damage of the combo or buy time.
I'm going to leave the conversation here, but please do try to use Djinni in the way you're thinking! It could surprise us all and become a staple, but on face value it seems like a card with weak stats but a high mana cost and unreasonable conditions to see the pay off from the ability.
|
Reno could definitely make some new decks. To be fair, theres quite a bit of decks that wouldnt suffer that much from replacing some of the duplicates and only leave 2 early gane duplicates in there. Shaman and pally for example could make it work.
Forgotten torch seems particulary awesome is freeze and fatique mage. I think dark peddler is actually good. Its 2 mana draw a card in zoolock, since the tempo/board control oriented playstyle really does give 1 drops value. Someone calculated that the chance you get a decent/great one drop is like 95%+ and the chance for a great 1 drop is like 40%. The fact that you can choose depending on the situation makes it really strong. 2/2 draw a card is amazing, and as I said, in zoo the 1 drop really is a card.
|
On November 13 2015 08:59 Garak911 wrote:Interesting Senzari, thats a lot worse than i initially thought. But since you have to draw one of each 2 of's one could have guessed that the chances of getting the effect would actually be rather slim. I would be interested in a probability chart for this issue. How would mulligan affect the outcome if you sent back all 1 of's but kept all 2of's? Still, a one of everything Warrior could be quite fun.
Not "viable", but you do gain in the unpredictability department
I think you've understood the card better than most Senzari. Blizzard did not design this for high level competitive play, they designed it to appear in Trolden videos and get people enjoying trying new deck builds. And I am really looking forward to seeing the 1 to 30 health swing from a Reno Jackson play!
|
While I think these ratings may be a bit overly-negative, it's hard to really argue with them in most cases. The problem with Hearthstone in general is that Blizzard are really bad at balancing it; as a result only about 10-20% of the cards in the game are actually played at all and everything else falls under the blanket rating of "worthless" by comparison.
On November 12 2015 04:57 csoszak wrote:
The 7/7 is top tier lategame card for warrior in arena even if its essentially a worse hogger. If they dont remove it instantly on followig turn, you probably just win the game.
They will remove it instantly on the following turn.
Also, Dr Boom exists, so it's worthless.
|
On November 13 2015 09:26 Arcane Azmadi wrote:While I think these ratings may be a bit overly-negative, it's hard to really argue with them in most cases. The problem with Hearthstone in general is that Blizzard are really bad at balancing it; as a result only about 10-20% of the cards in the game are actually played at all and everything else falls under the blanket rating of "worthless" by comparison. Show nested quote +On November 12 2015 04:57 csoszak wrote:
The 7/7 is top tier lategame card for warrior in arena even if its essentially a worse hogger. If they dont remove it instantly on followig turn, you probably just win the game. They will remove it instantly on the following turn. Also, Dr Boom exists, so it's worthless.
He obv said Arena. Also why not add some common so newer players can play some control warrior. People are always so negative it gets really annoying.
|
I've been sitting on it and I think the hat is actually better than it's gotten credit for. It effectively allows the Hunter to ignore their HP (which is how they win games with all decks currently established) and try another style of play based around efficient trades and the like. I honestly would be thrilled to see some innovation as a result (from someone better at Hunter than myself).
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
