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On August 18 2013 20:08 Heyoka wrote:
It's a CCG I'm not so sure it's reasonable to expect it to not have some grinding with pay options to get out of that. The arena system is good for just playing and you can do it mostly without any investment but not 100%.
That kind of shit kind of comes with the CCG territory, every other similar game is just straight up pay.
Arena costs $2 or 150g.
For perspective on what 150g is, you get 40g from a daily quest for winning 3 games, and after that it's 1g per win. So to grind 150g in 1 day, i.e. 1 arena entrance, it would take on average 226 games. Assuming an average of 12.5 minutes per game (which is about right), it takes 47.1 hours of grinding in 1 day (lol) to get enough gold to use the arena.
Or you can pay $2 real money, for 1 play (1 play is 3 losses). Charging for a game mode, not even to buy the game mode, but charging $2 on a per use basis, is the greediest thing Blizzard has ever done and one of the worse forms of microtransactions in the industry. To my knowledge, this is completely unprecedented.
As for the rewards, you get 1 pack of card (value around 100g) and a bit of gold. Reports are that it requires far more wins than losses to break even. So you can't rely on rewards from arena, because unless the MMR system majorly sucks and your lucky enough to get lower skilled opponents, your record will very likely be 3-3 or 2-3.
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1 gold per win? Da fuck?! I really hope they change that because that is just . . . no
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Make it 10 gold per win so it look reasonable to be able to grind 1 arena a day
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On August 18 2013 23:19 Usagi wrote:
Make it 10 gold per win so it look reasonable to be able to grind 1 arena a day
Yes, sure they should increase the amount of gold per win.
But the core problem is that charging for a game mode on a per usage basis is completely outrageous.
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The Arena needs a little tweeking for sure on the gold but besides that this game looks really fun! Can't wait to try it out. I wanna get that high class murloc deck !
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On August 18 2013 22:47 paralleluniverse wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2013 20:08 Heyoka wrote:
It's a CCG I'm not so sure it's reasonable to expect it to not have some grinding with pay options to get out of that. The arena system is good for just playing and you can do it mostly without any investment but not 100%.
That kind of shit kind of comes with the CCG territory, every other similar game is just straight up pay. Arena costs $2 or 150g. For perspective on what 150g is, you get 40g from a daily quest for winning 3 games, and after that it's 1g per win. So to grind 150g in 1 day, i.e. 1 arena entrance, it would take on average 226 games. Assuming an average of 12.5 minutes per game (which is about right), it takes 47.1 hours of grinding in 1 day (lol) to get enough gold to use the arena. Or you can pay $2 real money, for 1 play (1 play is 3 losses). Charging for a game mode, not even to buy the game mode, but charging $2 on a per use basis, is the greediest thing Blizzard has ever done and one of the worse forms of microtransactions in the industry. To my knowledge, this is completely unprecedented. As for the rewards, you get 1 pack of card (value around 100g) and a bit of gold. Reports are that it requires far more wins than losses to break even. So you can't rely on rewards from arena, because unless the MMR system majorly sucks and your lucky enough to get lower skilled opponents, your record will very likely be 3-3 or 2-3.
This is a very good point. If their MMR system is anything like SC2's (and it is reasonable to assume it will be), people are expected to lose 50% of their matches in the long run. That will make it harder at the lower levels of skill (i.e. the majority of players) to win 9 of the 11 matches allowed per arena for the most profitable reward.
This makes the cost of $2 per arena quite the cash cow for Blizz. This is a bit like playing a casino when you think about it.
Clever.
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On August 18 2013 23:28 paralleluniverse wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2013 23:19 Usagi wrote:
Make it 10 gold per win so it look reasonable to be able to grind 1 arena a day But the core problem is that charging for a game mode on a per usage basis is completely outrageous.
That sure feels kinda of missplaced. Couldn't they just milk booster packs instead of game modes ?
About the RMAH, it would be a nice idea, but a regular trade system would be even better, of course, battlenet 2.0.
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Any key to share? I have some games to trade it.
(or it isn't with key?)
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On August 18 2013 23:19 Usagi wrote:
Make it 10 gold per win so it look reasonable to be able to grind 1 arena a day
10 gold would be 15 wins, i think they should actually boost daily quest up to 50gold or 75 gold and then adjust gold per win so that if you do the daily quest it wouldn't take more then about 5-10 games to get enough to arena or open a new pack. Else if it takes multiple days to arena or get a new pack people will lose interest.
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On August 18 2013 22:47 paralleluniverse wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2013 20:08 Heyoka wrote:
It's a CCG I'm not so sure it's reasonable to expect it to not have some grinding with pay options to get out of that. The arena system is good for just playing and you can do it mostly without any investment but not 100%.
That kind of shit kind of comes with the CCG territory, every other similar game is just straight up pay. Arena costs $2 or 150g. For perspective on what 150g is, you get 40g from a daily quest for winning 3 games, and after that it's 1g per win. So to grind 150g in 1 day, i.e. 1 arena entrance, it would take on average 226 games. Assuming an average of 12.5 minutes per game (which is about right), it takes 47.1 hours of grinding in 1 day (lol) to get enough gold to use the arena. Or you can pay $2 real money, for 1 play (1 play is 3 losses). Charging for a game mode, not even to buy the game mode, but charging $2 on a per use basis, is the greediest thing Blizzard has ever done and one of the worse forms of microtransactions in the industry. To my knowledge, this is completely unprecedented. As for the rewards, you get 1 pack of card (value around 100g) and a bit of gold. Reports are that it requires far more wins than losses to break even. So you can't rely on rewards from arena, because unless the MMR system majorly sucks and your lucky enough to get lower skilled opponents, your record will very likely be 3-3 or 2-3.
It's really not unprecedented. The kind of gold standard for digital card games is MTGO and for their online drafting you generally have to buy 3 packs as well as 2 event tickets with event tickets being approximately $1. The values and rewards could use some tinkering (beta), so making criticism of that is fine.
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On August 19 2013 02:10 GogoKodo wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2013 22:47 paralleluniverse wrote:On August 18 2013 20:08 Heyoka wrote:
It's a CCG I'm not so sure it's reasonable to expect it to not have some grinding with pay options to get out of that. The arena system is good for just playing and you can do it mostly without any investment but not 100%.
That kind of shit kind of comes with the CCG territory, every other similar game is just straight up pay. Arena costs $2 or 150g. For perspective on what 150g is, you get 40g from a daily quest for winning 3 games, and after that it's 1g per win. So to grind 150g in 1 day, i.e. 1 arena entrance, it would take on average 226 games. Assuming an average of 12.5 minutes per game (which is about right), it takes 47.1 hours of grinding in 1 day (lol) to get enough gold to use the arena. Or you can pay $2 real money, for 1 play (1 play is 3 losses). Charging for a game mode, not even to buy the game mode, but charging $2 on a per use basis, is the greediest thing Blizzard has ever done and one of the worse forms of microtransactions in the industry. To my knowledge, this is completely unprecedented. As for the rewards, you get 1 pack of card (value around 100g) and a bit of gold. Reports are that it requires far more wins than losses to break even. So you can't rely on rewards from arena, because unless the MMR system majorly sucks and your lucky enough to get lower skilled opponents, your record will very likely be 3-3 or 2-3. It's really not unprecedented. The kind of gold standard for digital card games is MTGO and for their online drafting you generally have to buy 3 packs as well as 2 event tickets with event tickets being approximately $1. The values and rewards could use some tinkering (beta), so making criticism of that is fine.
Except those MTG cards you draft you keep and can turn into real life cards if you wanted, these cards are purely digital. Plus MTG has established tournaments which MTGO can get you into, MTG has been known as a money sink but there are also ways to go infinite though cheap constructed daily events. One good showing in a cheap daily event would easily cover 2 event ticket and doing well in draft or constructed pays out that you can continue, doing well in arena doesn't always get you the 150g.
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The game devs said that you could self-fund yourself in the Arena by just playing the Arena and doing well. I wouldn't look too into the beta gold earning just yet since its probably not the model they are rolling out with.
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is it 100g to hit the arena ($2.99)?
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On August 19 2013 02:30 semantics wrote:Show nested quote +On August 19 2013 02:10 GogoKodo wrote:On August 18 2013 22:47 paralleluniverse wrote:On August 18 2013 20:08 Heyoka wrote:
It's a CCG I'm not so sure it's reasonable to expect it to not have some grinding with pay options to get out of that. The arena system is good for just playing and you can do it mostly without any investment but not 100%.
That kind of shit kind of comes with the CCG territory, every other similar game is just straight up pay. Arena costs $2 or 150g. For perspective on what 150g is, you get 40g from a daily quest for winning 3 games, and after that it's 1g per win. So to grind 150g in 1 day, i.e. 1 arena entrance, it would take on average 226 games. Assuming an average of 12.5 minutes per game (which is about right), it takes 47.1 hours of grinding in 1 day (lol) to get enough gold to use the arena. Or you can pay $2 real money, for 1 play (1 play is 3 losses). Charging for a game mode, not even to buy the game mode, but charging $2 on a per use basis, is the greediest thing Blizzard has ever done and one of the worse forms of microtransactions in the industry. To my knowledge, this is completely unprecedented. As for the rewards, you get 1 pack of card (value around 100g) and a bit of gold. Reports are that it requires far more wins than losses to break even. So you can't rely on rewards from arena, because unless the MMR system majorly sucks and your lucky enough to get lower skilled opponents, your record will very likely be 3-3 or 2-3. It's really not unprecedented. The kind of gold standard for digital card games is MTGO and for their online drafting you generally have to buy 3 packs as well as 2 event tickets with event tickets being approximately $1. The values and rewards could use some tinkering (beta), so making criticism of that is fine. Except those MTG cards you draft you keep and can turn into real life cards if you wanted, these cards are purely digital. Plus MTG has established tournaments which MTGO can get you into, MTG has been known as a money sink but there are also ways to go infinite though cheap constructed daily events. One good showing in a cheap daily event would easily cover 2 event ticket and doing well in draft or constructed pays out that you can continue, doing well in arena doesn't always get you the 150g.
I'm mostly talking about the 2 ticket add-on to play draft. That there being a price to play a game-mode and not just unlock a game-mode for indefinite play isn't unprecedented. And I agree with you that the values need tweaking so that a lower investment could be achieved.
There's also a point that with MTGO you can't draft at all unless you put some money in (and after that very few people go infinite). With Hearthstone you could at least occasionally play Arena without any investment at all. Of course as I mentioned the numbers could use tweaking but this is something positive about the Hearthstone system that MTGO doesn't have.
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On August 19 2013 02:33 BliptiX wrote:
The game devs said that you could self-fund yourself in the Arena by just playing the Arena and doing well. I wouldn't look too into the beta gold earning just yet since its probably not the model they are rolling out with.
That would be ideal if you do well in arena you should get the 150g right now the prizes are randomish so you don't always get enough gold even with max win payout
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On August 19 2013 02:57 GogoKodo wrote:Show nested quote +On August 19 2013 02:30 semantics wrote:On August 19 2013 02:10 GogoKodo wrote:On August 18 2013 22:47 paralleluniverse wrote:On August 18 2013 20:08 Heyoka wrote:
It's a CCG I'm not so sure it's reasonable to expect it to not have some grinding with pay options to get out of that. The arena system is good for just playing and you can do it mostly without any investment but not 100%.
That kind of shit kind of comes with the CCG territory, every other similar game is just straight up pay. Arena costs $2 or 150g. For perspective on what 150g is, you get 40g from a daily quest for winning 3 games, and after that it's 1g per win. So to grind 150g in 1 day, i.e. 1 arena entrance, it would take on average 226 games. Assuming an average of 12.5 minutes per game (which is about right), it takes 47.1 hours of grinding in 1 day (lol) to get enough gold to use the arena. Or you can pay $2 real money, for 1 play (1 play is 3 losses). Charging for a game mode, not even to buy the game mode, but charging $2 on a per use basis, is the greediest thing Blizzard has ever done and one of the worse forms of microtransactions in the industry. To my knowledge, this is completely unprecedented. As for the rewards, you get 1 pack of card (value around 100g) and a bit of gold. Reports are that it requires far more wins than losses to break even. So you can't rely on rewards from arena, because unless the MMR system majorly sucks and your lucky enough to get lower skilled opponents, your record will very likely be 3-3 or 2-3. It's really not unprecedented. The kind of gold standard for digital card games is MTGO and for their online drafting you generally have to buy 3 packs as well as 2 event tickets with event tickets being approximately $1. The values and rewards could use some tinkering (beta), so making criticism of that is fine. Except those MTG cards you draft you keep and can turn into real life cards if you wanted, these cards are purely digital. Plus MTG has established tournaments which MTGO can get you into, MTG has been known as a money sink but there are also ways to go infinite though cheap constructed daily events. One good showing in a cheap daily event would easily cover 2 event ticket and doing well in draft or constructed pays out that you can continue, doing well in arena doesn't always get you the 150g. I'm mostly talking about the 2 ticket add-on to play draft. That there being a price to play a game-mode and not just unlock a game-mode for indefinite play isn't unprecedented. And I agree with you that the values need tweaking so that a lower investment could be achieved. There's also a point that with MTGO you can't draft at all unless you put some money in (and after that very few people go infinite). With Hearthstone you could at least occasionally play Arena without any investment at all. Of course as I mentioned the numbers could use tweaking but this is something positive about the Hearthstone system that MTGO doesn't have.
Drafting and going infinite is very hard in MTGO but playing daily events and going infinite with occasional drafting if very easy. Hearthstone only has arena as a format like phantom draft and it's pay out is similar to that but there is nothing else to supplement this sure you get 1 gold a win and daily quests are 40 gold but if you don't have a kick ass constructed deck it get's boring quickly grinding out wins for daily events/gold just to do arena, similar issue with the gold pay out is the same if you are master or apprentice sandbagging losses so you can stomp though wins may be an issue.
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TLADT24920 Posts
Saw the battle that they had on the site. Looking good! Will keep my eye on this if its F2P like I read in this thread 
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On August 19 2013 04:03 BigFan wrote:Saw the battle that they had on the site. Looking good! Will keep my eye on this if its F2P like I read in this thread
I bet you'll become a big fan.
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I watched some minutes on twitch.tv and must say it's pretty fun to watch, perhaps a nice competitive game. Though maybe a bit too random, idk.
Looks like a fun game to play, as it seems easy to understand and fast paced.
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On August 18 2013 23:28 paralleluniverse wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2013 23:19 Usagi wrote:
Make it 10 gold per win so it look reasonable to be able to grind 1 arena a day Yes, sure they should increase the amount of gold per win. But the core problem is that charging for a game mode on a per usage basis is completely outrageous.
you blow this way out of proportion. arena is something special and if you are good at it, it pays for itself, since you get enough gold as reward to enter it again. if you arent good (or unlucky), you have to wait a few days to enter it again, or spend 2 bucks on it, if you dont want to wait. i dont see what the big deal is. its not like theres nothing else to do. just play normal/ranked mode and do quests till you have enough gold for arena again
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EPT
