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Healthcare Reform in the US - Page 24

Forum Index > General Forum
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{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
December 17 2009 03:51 GMT
#461
Well Health Reform is dead proving that that the Insurance Industry and corporations in general are more important to senators and the government than the lives of people.
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
WheelOfTime
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
Canada331 Posts
December 17 2009 03:54 GMT
#462
Watched the movie Sicko, although heavily biased, it provides good insight into the issue.
SingletonWilliam
Profile Joined April 2008
United States664 Posts
December 17 2009 04:40 GMT
#463
I'm pretty liberal but I don't support the current health care and cap and trade bills being proposed in the senate and house. I'm afraid for Obama's political momentum if this healthcare bill fails, if this fails I hope it doesn't drag him down for the rest of his term.
Aegraen #1 Fan!
zerglingsfolife
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
United States1694 Posts
December 18 2009 00:53 GMT
#464
I haven't been keeping up with the news much, but I just got through talking to my conservative parents about the health care bill. I just wanted to make sure I'm getting both sides of the story.

They said that
Cons
1.They are raising taxes
2.They are reducing medicare
3.They are pushing the debt onto the younger generation.

Pros
4.More people will be covered by health care.

Most polls show 60% disapproval with the bill.

Also it looks kind of shady that the people constructing the bill probably won't release it for everyone to view for a long enough time to consider it's pros/cons. They are trying to jam it through before anyone really gets a chance to read it. It's supposedly over 2000 pages?!?

This is what I got from talking to my parents. What is incorrect/ what info am I missing?

Not that it matters, but I'm moderately conservative myself.
Night gathers, and now my watch begins. It shall not end until my death. I shall take no wife, hold no lands, father no children. I shall wear no crown and win no glory. I shall live and die at my post. I am the sword in the darkness.
Kingsp4de20
Profile Blog Joined February 2007
United States716 Posts
December 18 2009 01:34 GMT
#465
My 2 cents....
You really want to trust the government with your health?
When was the last time you went to the DMV....
And even if this health care plan thing is a good deal why are they in such a rush to push it through before christmas. Obama took his sweet time weighing his options when it came to sending troops in Afganistan, but for some reason this has to be done right now with no time to spare. Even if America does end up with a public health care system wouldnt you want it to be thought out real long and hard before the government takes over 1/6th of the economy...
Mystlord *
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States10264 Posts
December 18 2009 03:02 GMT
#466
On December 18 2009 10:34 Kingsp4de20 wrote:
My 2 cents....
You really want to trust the government with your health?
When was the last time you went to the DMV....
And even if this health care plan thing is a good deal why are they in such a rush to push it through before christmas. Obama took his sweet time weighing his options when it came to sending troops in Afganistan, but for some reason this has to be done right now with no time to spare. Even if America does end up with a public health care system wouldnt you want it to be thought out real long and hard before the government takes over 1/6th of the economy...

You trust the government enough to pay taxes apparently. You trust the government enough to be a part of Medicare and Social Security. And the reason this needs to be passed immediately is because of the urgency of the problem. 22000 people die every year due to lack of health insurance. 100000 people die every year because of hospital infections. In 8 years, medicare will go bankrupt, and we're not including standard rising costs. Seriously, SOMETHING needs to get passed this year.

If it was up to me, I'd keep the bill as is and pass right now. I don't see why we need to force a public option or medicare buy ins right now if we can get something done immediately.
It is impossible to be a citizen if you don't make an effort to understand the most basic activities of your government. It is very difficult to thrive in an increasingly competitive world if you're a nation of doods.
meegrean
Profile Joined May 2008
Thailand7699 Posts
December 18 2009 03:18 GMT
#467
At least Obama is trying. His mind is in the right place.
Brood War loyalist
XoXiDe
Profile Joined September 2006
United States620 Posts
December 18 2009 04:10 GMT
#468
On December 18 2009 09:53 zerglingsfolife wrote:
I haven't been keeping up with the news much, but I just got through talking to my conservative parents about the health care bill. I just wanted to make sure I'm getting both sides of the story.

They said that
Cons
1.They are raising taxes
2.They are reducing medicare
3.They are pushing the debt onto the younger generation.

Pros
4.More people will be covered by health care.

Most polls show 60% disapproval with the bill.

Also it looks kind of shady that the people constructing the bill probably won't release it for everyone to view for a long enough time to consider it's pros/cons. They are trying to jam it through before anyone really gets a chance to read it. It's supposedly over 2000 pages?!?

This is what I got from talking to my parents. What is incorrect/ what info am I missing?

Not that it matters, but I'm moderately conservative myself.


first it's hard to say with their not being a final bill.
Anyway from what i've heard.
1. raising taxes (it has been proposed they want to raise taxes on more expensive health care plans (ironically affecting unions, and millionaires, so its going to be a specific portion of people, ofc who knows what has come out or been put in the bill so far with regards to this)

2. reducing medicare (i've heard a lot of different things on this, argument for would be that they are looking for ways to save, like lowering payments and finding other waste in the program, not reducing benefits, but you have to think this might happen with so much money being cut)
however its funny democrats being portrayed as the opponents of medicare being that its the democrats who have implemented and supported these programs since their inception.

3. they are pushing debt on the younger generation (the last 8 years has shoved a lot of debt down our throats were your parents speaking up then? the bill is supposed to be paid for, anywhere near "deficit neutral" and that will be an accomplishment, and its a change from the last administration just passing shit and not paying for it because no one ever wants to raise taxes in this country. (medicare part d and the bush tax cuts, wars)

it's a complicated issue, but it's hard to tell wtf is going on with the bill, seems to be watered down everyday from my view. i'd like to tell you a long list of the pro's that should result but i have no idea whats going to be passed.

some pro's if its done correctly....(wishful thinking i guess)
push health care premium costs down which i keep growing more skeptical about
end the trend of somewhere near 70% of people filing for bankruptcy because of medical bills.
allow people with pre-existing conditions to get affordable coverage.
promote preventive care and attempt to change fee for service method.
i also wish they'd address student loans for medical professionals and importing cheaper pharmaceuticals which was shot down recently.
TEXAN
zerglingsfolife
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
United States1694 Posts
December 18 2009 04:41 GMT
#469
You guys bring up solid points. Thanks for responding. Not sure if I want it to go through or not, lol. Hopefully whatever happens will be the best option for the future of the US.
Night gathers, and now my watch begins. It shall not end until my death. I shall take no wife, hold no lands, father no children. I shall wear no crown and win no glory. I shall live and die at my post. I am the sword in the darkness.
Mori600
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
Japan311 Posts
December 18 2009 05:04 GMT
#470
One thing for certain is that the healthcare is not going to pass the Senate. Now that there is a Democratic President in office, the Republican party is going to get more powerful.

I am for the healthcare reform in the US and there is one thing I have trouble understanding about the Democrats and Republicans against it. From my understanding, America is one of the only 1st world nations that does not have universal healthcare. I brought that up with my Government and Economics teacher and he responded by saying just because they do it does not mean it is right and whenever I hear that, I interpret that as American exceptionalism. Basically, saying that America is better than the rest of the world.
Build a man a fire, he will be warm for a night. Lite a man on fire, he will be warm for the rest of his life.
Kingsp4de20
Profile Blog Joined February 2007
United States716 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-12-18 05:16:06
December 18 2009 05:14 GMT
#471
Kingsp4de20
Profile Blog Joined February 2007
United States716 Posts
December 18 2009 05:16 GMT
#472
On December 18 2009 12:02 Mystlord wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 18 2009 10:34 Kingsp4de20 wrote:
My 2 cents....
You really want to trust the government with your health?
When was the last time you went to the DMV....
And even if this health care plan thing is a good deal why are they in such a rush to push it through before christmas. Obama took his sweet time weighing his options when it came to sending troops in Afganistan, but for some reason this has to be done right now with no time to spare. Even if America does end up with a public health care system wouldnt you want it to be thought out real long and hard before the government takes over 1/6th of the economy...

You trust the government enough to pay taxes apparently. You trust the government enough to be a part of Medicare and Social Security. And the reason this needs to be passed immediately is because of the urgency of the problem. 22000 people die every year due to lack of health insurance. 100000 people die every year because of hospital infections. In 8 years, medicare will go bankrupt, and we're not including standard rising costs. Seriously, SOMETHING needs to get passed this year.

If it was up to me, I'd keep the bill as is and pass right now. I don't see why we need to force a public option or medicare buy ins right now if we can get something done immediately.


If I had a choice I would love to opt out of medicare and social security....by the time i would need to use it the moneys going to be gone.

All I'm going to ask is where in the constitution does it day people have the right to health care.

Saturnize
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
United States2473 Posts
December 18 2009 05:17 GMT
#473
Well, i dont think i should be held accountable for someone elses health. I think those kind of things should be voluntary. (Most everything should)
"Time to put the mustard on the hotdog. -_-"
Saturnize
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
United States2473 Posts
December 18 2009 05:18 GMT
#474
On December 18 2009 14:04 Mori600 wrote:
One thing for certain is that the healthcare is not going to pass the Senate. Now that there is a Democratic President in office, the Republican party is going to get more powerful.

I am for the healthcare reform in the US and there is one thing I have trouble understanding about the Democrats and Republicans against it. From my understanding, America is one of the only 1st world nations that does not have universal healthcare. I brought that up with my Government and Economics teacher and he responded by saying just because they do it does not mean it is right and whenever I hear that, I interpret that as American exceptionalism. Basically, saying that America is better than the rest of the world.


Please explain.
"Time to put the mustard on the hotdog. -_-"
Kingsp4de20
Profile Blog Joined February 2007
United States716 Posts
December 18 2009 05:32 GMT
#475
Why is it people from other countries in this thread seem to feel they know what is best for the US?
ShroomyD
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
Australia245 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-12-18 05:47:26
December 18 2009 05:40 GMT
#476
Imagine a land where there are no patents and therefore big pharma doesn't exist, a world where there is no government therefore corporations as we see them today as inefficient entities doing wrong around the world, a world where everyone is preeettttyyy much safe, a world where competition is driven by the marketplace where costs are extremely low, a world where no one is forced to pay for something they do not wish to pay for ( no partial slavery as it is now) a world where the value of your money doesn't go down but up (saving is fun), a world with no unemployment unless you aren't looking for a job. Tell me you don't dig it~~!?
아나코자본주의
VabuDeltaKaiser
Profile Joined April 2009
Germany1107 Posts
December 18 2009 05:43 GMT
#477
obama already won the throphy, he doesnt need to play this tourney anymore :/
my smiley drinks green tea. works. just, the commercial investments are lower.
Jibba
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
United States22883 Posts
December 18 2009 06:17 GMT
#478
On December 18 2009 14:40 ShroomyD wrote:
Imagine a land where there are no patents and therefore big pharma doesn't exist, a world where there is no government therefore corporations as we see them today as inefficient entities doing wrong around the world, a world where everyone is preeettttyyy much safe, a world where competition is driven by the marketplace where costs are extremely low, a world where no one is forced to pay for something they do not wish to pay for ( no partial slavery as it is now) a world where the value of your money doesn't go down but up (saving is fun), a world with no unemployment unless you aren't looking for a job. Tell me you don't dig it~~!?

Imagine a land where there is no Molasses Swamp and therefore Gloppy doesn't exist, a world where there are no 'Go Back' cards therefore no Lord Licorice as we see him today doing wrong around the world, a world were everyone can make it through the Rainbow Trail, a world where competition is driven by merit instead of random color coded cards, a world where no one is forced to sit a turn in the Gumdrop Mountains ( without drawing yellow) a world where everyone goes straight to Queen Frostine (skipping is fun), a world with no Mr. Mint unless you actually like candy canes. Tell me you don't dig it~~!?
ModeratorNow I'm distant, dark in this anthrobeat
ShroomyD
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
Australia245 Posts
December 18 2009 06:31 GMT
#479
On December 18 2009 15:17 Jibba wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 18 2009 14:40 ShroomyD wrote:
Imagine a land where there are no patents and therefore big pharma doesn't exist, a world where there is no government therefore corporations as we see them today as inefficient entities doing wrong around the world, a world where everyone is preeettttyyy much safe, a world where competition is driven by the marketplace where costs are extremely low, a world where no one is forced to pay for something they do not wish to pay for ( no partial slavery as it is now) a world where the value of your money doesn't go down but up (saving is fun), a world with no unemployment unless you aren't looking for a job. Tell me you don't dig it~~!?

Imagine a land where there is no Molasses Swamp and therefore Gloppy doesn't exist, a world where there are no 'Go Back' cards therefore no Lord Licorice as we see him today doing wrong around the world, a world were everyone can make it through the Rainbow Trail, a world where competition is driven by merit instead of random color coded cards, a world where no one is forced to sit a turn in the Gumdrop Mountains ( without drawing yellow) a world where everyone goes straight to Queen Frostine (skipping is fun), a world with no Mr. Mint unless you actually like candy canes. Tell me you don't dig it~~!?

I dig it. I'm down.
아나코자본주의
Bosu
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
United States3247 Posts
December 18 2009 06:37 GMT
#480
I can't imagine how people can be against health care reform. How can people be so evil that they don't believe millions of americans should get good health care.
#1 Kwanro Fan
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