EPTmaybe someone should tell him about kespa (along with whatever else is out there)
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LosingID8
CA10835 Posts
maybe someone should tell him about kespa (along with whatever else is out there) | ||
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Meta
United States6228 Posts
On July 14 2009 06:16 heyoka wrote: Any game that has prize money has people who are professionals playing only that, how is this surprising to a community that supports a 10 year old video game that has next to no money at all in non-Korean tournaments? The problem is when the prize money goes to competitive gamers who are forced to play non-competitive games because 'that's where the competition is'. Who should decide which games are competitive enough to be worthy of a professional scene? Should it be some jackass non-gamer with a lot of money taking suggestions from whoever signs up for his scam first? Or should it be the gamers themselves, us, the community that follows our individual games? If a game is just bad, then a community will never develop, and a professional scene will never come into existence. Good games, on the other hand, harbor good communities. These communities already exist. Why not throw prize money at these communities, and let them battle it out their own way? All we need is the prize and the publicity, we already have everything else. Picking games to be competitive for any reason other than the fact that they are good, tested, balanced games that are also fun to watch pros play is a bad move. Anyway I've jumped off topic of the response I wanted to post, but I also want to agree that e-sports, like regular sports, should be developed in a game-by-game basis. I would consider myself a huge e-sports fan. But I would never, EVER watch e-sports competitions of games I don't play. I don't play CS, so I'll never watch CS, and any competition involving CS would lose my interest before they can make money back advertising to me. The problem is there is a conflict of interest whenever there is a multi-game competition. Community members are individually part of a handful of gaming audiences, each audience is game specific, so why try to mold all of it together? It's not rocket science, the same idea applies to traditional sports. You'd never see a competition where one minute a team is playing another team in football and the next they're playing basketball. | ||
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barth
Ireland1272 Posts
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L
Canada4732 Posts
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Ronald_McD
Canada807 Posts
Not because it's going to die really fast, I know that But because after all these failed projects and leagues, who's honestly going to take Esports seriously outside of Korea? People are going to think that it just doesn't work; When really there's just a right way and a wrong way to do it. Unfortunately 'gaming' and 'pro gaming' are very two different things. This guy just wants to throw a bunch of nerds in a room with a bunch of random games and have us watch who's the best at whatever. There's no room to sit and hone your skills for specific games, which is what makes for interesting matches for the audience to spectate. Not to mention the games have to be spectator friendly in the first place... I just don't see anyone having a good time watching Guitar Hero 3 being played (the sad part is that I'm probably wrong... I've heard of Guitar Hero 3 pro gamers?) | ||
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Lemonwalrus
United States5465 Posts
Hypocrites. | ||
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Trezeguet
United States2656 Posts
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Shivaz
Canada1783 Posts
On July 14 2009 11:41 Lemonwalrus wrote: I don't play yugioh, but I just love how followers of professional sc shit all over the idea of professional yugioh. Hypocrites. yugioh is mostly luck dependent and how much you are willing to shell out into buying the cards. | ||
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ActualSteve
United States627 Posts
On July 14 2009 06:55 L wrote: Yu Gi Oh has a fucking LOT of money behind it. I wouldn't shit on it. If I were an Indian overlord who owns hundreds of sweatshops, I wouldn't be proud of the way I make my bread. I would feel the same way if I played 12 and 40 year olds (the latter being there to "activate their trap cards" on the former!) for money. | ||
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daz
Canada643 Posts
On July 14 2009 06:29 Meta wrote: The problem is when the prize money goes to competitive gamers who are forced to play non-competitive games because 'that's where the competition is'. Who should decide which games are competitive enough to be worthy of a professional scene? Should it be some jackass non-gamer with a lot of money taking suggestions from whoever signs up for his scam first? Or should it be the gamers themselves, us, the community that follows our individual games? If a game is just bad, then a community will never develop, and a professional scene will never come into existence. Good games, on the other hand, harbor good communities. These communities already exist. Why not throw prize money at these communities, and let them battle it out their own way? All we need is the prize and the publicity, we already have everything else. Picking games to be competitive for any reason other than the fact that they are good, tested, balanced games that are also fun to watch pros play is a bad move. Anyway I've jumped off topic of the response I wanted to post, but I also want to agree that e-sports, like regular sports, should be developed in a game-by-game basis. I would consider myself a huge e-sports fan. But I would never, EVER watch e-sports competitions of games I don't play. I don't play CS, so I'll never watch CS, and any competition involving CS would lose my interest before they can make money back advertising to me. The problem is there is a conflict of interest whenever there is a multi-game competition. Community members are individually part of a handful of gaming audiences, each audience is game specific, so why try to mold all of it together? It's not rocket science, the same idea applies to traditional sports. You'd never see a competition where one minute a team is playing another team in football and the next they're playing basketball. this is because these things are typically started by some old businessmen trying to cash in on a fad who think all video games are the same thing. | ||
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ActualSteve
United States627 Posts
On July 14 2009 06:24 LosingID8 wrote: "establish the first governing body of competitive gaming" maybe someone should tell him about kespa (along with whatever else is out there) maybe he knows and wants to form the first democratic governing body of competitive gaming ... because we all know the bloc that KeSPA would fall into. | ||
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GGQ
Canada2653 Posts
On July 14 2009 11:44 Shivaz wrote: yugioh is mostly luck dependent and how much you are willing to shell out into buying the cards. Extremely skilled yugioh players will tend to win tournaments or at least place highly in them. Perhaps not as consistently as in Starcraft, but consistently enough that you cannot simply call yugioh 'luck dependent'. I used to play weekly in local tournaments at my city's card shop; $5 entry fee with the money being split among the top three finishers. It was basically free money for me because there was only one other kid who was playing at my skill level. Anyways, theres not much more to say about how bad this WWFOG idea is and how certainly it's going to tank. It's trying to be way too much, way too soon. | ||
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Lemonwalrus
United States5465 Posts
On July 14 2009 11:44 Shivaz wrote: yugioh is mostly luck dependent and how much you are willing to shell out into buying the cards. Do you not see how similar that is to what an NFL fan that doesn't respect starcraft would say about starcraft? Seriously? | ||
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Elric
United Kingdom1327 Posts
and sorry.. is that guy's nickname really 'Triforce Gamemaster'?????!!!!!!!!! LOL I'm confused. | ||
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Faronel
United States658 Posts
That being said... this idea is complete bullshit. I wonder how much this guy is gonna gain from people paying 10dollars for this bullshit. | ||
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Shivaz
Canada1783 Posts
On July 14 2009 11:55 Lemonwalrus wrote: Do you not see how similar that is to what an NFL fan that doesn't respect starcraft would say about starcraft? Seriously? So you are saying I shouldn't bash on Yu-Gi-Oh because I don't understand the game, like how an NFL fans bash on Starcraft and may not understand it? Before you start assuming things, I have played Yu-Gi-Oh before, maybe not serious enough to be entering tourneys but I did play it for a while when I was 12-13 years old (lol). The reason I say its luck dependent is because it depends on the cards you draw, which comes from your deck. Now yes people will say "your deck is how you build it, and better plays will build a better deck", but in Yu-Gi-Oh some cards are just better than others, these "staple" cards are in every half decent deck. Thus leaving not alot of room for variety, and if you decide to build your deck around a dragon theme its going to be very similar to the next guy who builds a dragon theme, because like I said some cards are just better. The cards also progressively gets better each new booster pack, which is basically why I stopped playing Yu-Gi-Oh. To stay competitive you literally are forced to buy new cards. (when I played Yu-Gi-Oh a 4 star monster had 1600 attack max, and when I stopped keeping up with Yu-Gi-Oh cards 4 star monsters had 1900 attack). Basically what I am saying is I can't respect a game where new cards coming out keeps being better than older ones, atleast in magic you can build a decent deck using old cards and play it against someone with new cards. In Yu-Gi-Oh you can't, unless of course the old card is one of those "staple" cards. | ||
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Lemonwalrus
United States5465 Posts
On July 14 2009 12:34 Shivaz wrote: So you are saying I shouldn't bash on Starcraft because I don't understand the game, like how an Soccer fans bash on The NFL and may not understand it? Before you start assuming things, I have played Starcraft before, maybe not serious enough to be entering tourneys but I did play it for a while when I was 12-13 years old (lol). The reason I say its luck dependent is because it depends on the units you build, which comes from your race. Now yes people will say "your race what you choose, and better plays will not play protoss", but in starcraft some units are just better than others, these "staple" unites are in every half decent matchup. Thus leaving not alot of room for variety, and if you decide to Overpool its going to be very similar to the next guy who Overpools, because like I said some units are just better. The units also progressively gets better each new expansion, which is basically why I stopped playing starcraft. To stay competitive you literally are forced to buy broodwar. (when I played starcraft a 125 mineral unit did 20 damage (Dragoon), and when I stopped keeping up with starcraft 125 mineral units did 40 damage and were invisible). Basically what I am saying is I can't respect a game where new units coming out keeps being better than older ones. | ||
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Shivaz
Canada1783 Posts
I lol'd at this response because its so bad. When people play Starcraft they all get to use the same units each time and thats different from Yu-Gi-Oh, where in Yu-Gi-Oh if you don't want to buy new cards you can't play competitively, and the people that can afford the cards often think they are the better player. | ||
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Lemonwalrus
United States5465 Posts
I'll admit that the cost of new cards is a barrier to entry for new players, but that wasn't your main point, or at least I assume it wasn't because it was relegated to one sentence and one parenthetical aside at the bottom of the paragraph. | ||
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Lemonwalrus
United States5465 Posts
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