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On July 08 2009 13:43 Draconizard wrote:
Complete ethnic integration should most certainly be the goal of any nation (perhaps even of the entire world). If everyone were homogeneous, none of these issues would exist. The particulars such as individual culture, religion, etc. are but a small price to pay.
What the fuck?
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On July 08 2009 14:00 koreasilver wrote:
What the fuck?
lol, I probably should have just said that.
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Another product of so-called "multiculturalism"
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Ask yourself who is there to benefit from the 'preservation of culture'? Some Western tourist who can visit and appreciate? What if the continuation of culture and traditions, is at the cost of economic development (a relative concept, indeed people can be satisified by constant wealth as well as they don't SEE another group with accelerated growth in wealth).
On the topic of ethinic integration, or separationist movement, it is only those in the position of power who will benefit most. In the case of the sparsely populated western China, IMO the general populance has everything to LOSE if disconnected from China. Who's going to pay for the infrastructure? Who's going to provide the goods? How do you survive with a pissed off government as a neighbour who's 100 times stronger? When's the last time you've seen a poorer section of a nation split and prospered?
A nation is an institution, and like all institutions are established to achieve what individuals cannot. The whole concept of a nation is utilitarian. That means US (or any other nation, naturally) will distablise an enemy if it preceives benefit in doing so for its citizens, morally wrong but justified by every government's mission. Ethinic integration is a general trend in a nation, problem is people has low tolerance for change.
I find it amusing anyone can be living outside of their homeland and claim to be some sort of a leader of their people. If you do not live their life, you are not representative of your people and may not act in their best interest. I see Tibetians in Australia protest about the oppression their people faced in China. Well, if you are so morally correct, why ain't you back in your country and supporting your people? Live the life in the West, plenty of time to moan.
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On July 08 2009 13:55 Polus wrote:
To suggest that they should completely integrate with a government that has terrorized them and marginalized them for much of the past 50 years is a ridiculous notion.
I loled at that. The Australian Aboriginese and the American Indians came to mind.
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On July 08 2009 14:13 potchip wrote:
Ask yourself who is there to benefit from the 'preservation of culture'? Some Western tourist who can visit and appreciate?
WTF
Maybe it benefits the people whose culture we preserved? Durr.. And THIS is what is most important.
None of what you wrote matters much, if the people themselves do not want integration -- and it seems like they have pretty strong feelings about it too.
Maybe they don't care about infrastructure. Maybe they don't care about the goods. Maybe they don't care about wealth. Maybe they don't want integration?
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Things are getting worse. Today thousands of Han Chinese in Xinjiang gathered and tried to revenge for the dead. They were cracked down by the police. The leader said, if the government could not protect us, we did it by ourselves.
This is the result what some oversea Uighurs want to see. They just want more people die in the conflict so that they have the chance to be independent.
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And becoming independent in their own homeland is...bad?
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On July 08 2009 14:19 themonkyguy wrote:Show nested quote +On July 08 2009 13:55 Polus wrote:
To suggest that they should completely integrate with a government that has terrorized them and marginalized them for much of the past 50 years is a ridiculous notion. I loled at that. The Australian Aboriginese and the American Indians came to mind.
I loled at your throw away comment. Ever read about the Cultural Revolution, or did you skip school that day?
Also, I never compared them to either of those peoples. You did.
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Perhaps you get the false impression that people want it because
1. they happens to LIVE IN THE WEST and says so on an INTERNET FORUM
2. 1000 of them happens to rioting and it is all over the internet. Oh Nooz, wait what about the hundreds of thousands who didn't partake and will from this point on face the back-lash? Don't characterise a people, it is like saying terrorists kill people, terrorists are muslins, therefore all muslins kill people. No.
3. "Maybe they don't care about infrastructure. Maybe they don't care about the goods. Maybe they don't care about wealth. Maybe they don't want integration?" The first thing you learn in economics is people start to don't care when they already have it.
Why do we Australians even bother with the Aborigines? Living in the bush is what the want, right?
Cheers.
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On July 08 2009 14:29 potchip wrote:
Perhaps you get the false impression that people want it because
1. they happens to LIVE IN THE WEST and says so on an INTERNET FORUM
2. "Maybe they don't care about infrastructure. Maybe they don't care about the goods. Maybe they don't care about wealth. Maybe they don't want integration?" The first thing you learn in economics is people start to don't care when they already have it.
Why do we Australians even bother with the Aborigines? Living in the bush is what the want, right?
Cheers.
Yeah you Aussies did a great job with the Aborigines. Remember everyone, darkies are too ignorant to raise their own children, so we'll do it for them.
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On July 08 2009 14:29 potchip wrote:
Perhaps you get the false impression that people want it because
1. they happens to LIVE IN THE WEST and says so on an INTERNET FORUM
2. "Maybe they don't care about infrastructure. Maybe they don't care about the goods. Maybe they don't care about wealth. Maybe they don't want integration?" The first thing you learn in economics is people start to don't care when they already have it.
Why do we Australians even bother with the Aborigines? Living in the bush is what the want, right?
Cheers.
Frankly, it's hard to decipher what you are trying to say here, so I can't quite respond to this.
Perhaps this was your intention?
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On July 08 2009 14:27 Polus wrote:Show nested quote +On July 08 2009 14:19 themonkyguy wrote:On July 08 2009 13:55 Polus wrote:
To suggest that they should completely integrate with a government that has terrorized them and marginalized them for much of the past 50 years is a ridiculous notion. I loled at that. The Australian Aboriginese and the American Indians came to mind. I loled at your throw away comment. Ever read about the Cultural Revolution, or did you skip school that day? Also, I never compared them to either of those peoples. You did.
I was just saying it isnt a ridiculous notion, given the two examples. Yes the chinese government have made mistakes in the past, but that doesn't mean reconciliation is impossible.
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On July 08 2009 14:27 v1rtu0so wrote:
And becoming independent in their own homeland is...bad?
Not bad for you. I also hope local people in Hawaii, Alaska, South CA could have their own countries.
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On July 08 2009 14:36 themonkyguy wrote:Show nested quote +On July 08 2009 14:27 Polus wrote:On July 08 2009 14:19 themonkyguy wrote:On July 08 2009 13:55 Polus wrote:
To suggest that they should completely integrate with a government that has terrorized them and marginalized them for much of the past 50 years is a ridiculous notion. I loled at that. The Australian Aboriginese and the American Indians came to mind. I loled at your throw away comment. Ever read about the Cultural Revolution, or did you skip school that day? Also, I never compared them to either of those peoples. You did. I was just saying it isnt a ridiculous notion, given the two examples. Yes the chinese government have made mistakes in the past, but that doesn't mean reconciliation is impossible.
Okay, I agree with your last point. I never suggested reconciliation was impossible. You conveniently ignored the part of my post where I suggested integration begin in both the TAR and Xinjiang regions once those minorities have an actual voice in the CCP.
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I am sorry, there is no local people in USA.
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On July 08 2009 14:29 potchip wrote:
Perhaps you get the false impression that people want it because
1. they happens to LIVE IN THE WEST and says so on an INTERNET FORUM
2. 1000 of them happens to rioting and it is all over the internet. Oh Nooz, wait what about the hundreds of thousands who didn't partake and will from this point on face the back-lash? Don't characterise a people, it is like saying terrorists kill people, terrorists are muslins, therefore all muslins kill people. No.
3. "Maybe they don't care about infrastructure. Maybe they don't care about the goods. Maybe they don't care about wealth. Maybe they don't want integration?" The first thing you learn in economics is people start to don't care when they already have it.
Why do we Australians even bother with the Aborigines? Living in the bush is what the want, right?
Cheers.
Actually, I've read some anthropology studies that talked about how the economic belief of "infinite wants" does not exist in some cultures; these people actually have limited wants. Their notion of wealth is different from ours.
So yes, you're just an ethnocentric fellow, according to what little anthropology I have studied in my electives.
On July 08 2009 14:39 asleepingpig wrote:Show nested quote +On July 08 2009 14:27 v1rtu0so wrote:
And becoming independent in their own homeland is...bad? Not bad for you. I also hope local people in Hawaii, Alaska, South CA could have their own countries.
People in Hawaii and Alaska did used to live independently until they were assimilated.
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On July 08 2009 14:39 asleepingpig wrote:Show nested quote +On July 08 2009 14:27 v1rtu0so wrote:
And becoming independent in their own homeland is...bad? Not bad for you. I also hope local people in Hawaii, Alaska, South CA could have their own countries.
And those regions are analogous to 新疆 how?
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On July 08 2009 14:43 Polus wrote:Show nested quote +On July 08 2009 14:39 asleepingpig wrote:On July 08 2009 14:27 v1rtu0so wrote:
And becoming independent in their own homeland is...bad? Not bad for you. I also hope local people in Hawaii, Alaska, South CA could have their own countries. And those regions are analogous to 新疆 how?
I am sorry, there is no local people in USA.
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On July 08 2009 14:45 asleepingpig wrote:Show nested quote +On July 08 2009 14:43 Polus wrote:On July 08 2009 14:39 asleepingpig wrote:On July 08 2009 14:27 v1rtu0so wrote:
And becoming independent in their own homeland is...bad? Not bad for you. I also hope local people in Hawaii, Alaska, South CA could have their own countries. And those regions are analogous to 新疆 how? I am sorry, there is no local people in USA.
Aborigines? There are aborigines that originated from Hawaii and Alaska.
What are you on about.
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EPT
