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On July 08 2009 16:14 moriya wrote:Dude how can u know that China will test the nuke on Japan soon? Yes China really do because they find nuke on gobi cannot demonstrate its massive kills, luckily Japan is the best place for test, as US did many years ago... Show nested quote +On July 08 2009 15:44 MK wrote:On July 08 2009 15:42 asleepingpig wrote:
A place full of Gobi and desert. Maybe Uighurs can live better than Tibetans because they can sell oil. ok, so CHina should leave them alone. OH WAIT ! No, because China has to test some nuke there. that ?
Nice! I like your fury.
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On July 08 2009 16:16 GoodWill wrote:Show nested quote +On July 08 2009 15:56 v1rtu0so wrote:On July 08 2009 15:34 GoodWill wrote:On July 08 2009 15:01 v1rtu0so wrote:On July 08 2009 14:58 asleepingpig wrote:On July 08 2009 14:47 v1rtu0so wrote:
US certainly is not free from guilty of something like this themselves. Besides slavery, the dealings with native americans is certainly the biggest blemish in otherwise decent track record. Now that I think of it, there are uncanny parallels in the two situations. Indian casinos and affirmative action sounds A LOT like the type of preferential treatment that the minorities are getting in China in exchange for loss of autonomy.
China really should not make the mistake US made years ago, but knowing their gov't, I know they will bulldoze through their agenda.
What is noticeably different, however, is that, unlike the Americans who are not proud of this part of history, the Chinese population (the supposed "Hans") are so convinced and even proud that what they are doing is "magnanimous" and "for their good." Thanks for your explanation. I know Indians are well treated in USA now. But if there were millions of Indians in Alaska who wanted to be independent and attack the white madly, how will USA government do? If these millions of indians constitute the vast majority of people living in Alaska (no longer true) AND wanted to "attack the white madly" (unlikely, but OK), then US should let them be independent. Another important caveat is that these people need to have lived their for long time (effectively the land has been theirs), which is also no longer true. Tibetans and Uighurs, however, (with some reservations) seem to mostly meet these criteria. edit: damn i missed the proleague responding to this thread And these minorities aren't the vast majority in their provinces either. "Their" land were territories of successive Chinese dynasties as well. I don't see how they "seem to mostly meet these criteria". Oh, and US didn't take native Indians' lands by force or coercion or anything, that kid is legit. I believe they were the vast majority, before Chinese gov't started its aggressive transplantation of Hans to the region -- this is why there are now so many conflicts in that region between Hans and the natives. The chinese gov't have been very successful; as you say, the Uighurs are indeed no longer the vast majority. Congratulations! Guess where that's happened before? Who else have been very successful and who else are indeed no longer the vast majority? I should congratulate you too for taking what's been granted. Show nested quote +
Do you condone the forceful conquest of these regions by whichever dynasty was strongest then?
Let's hope not. Regardless of to whom this land have belonged in the past, it has been theirs (Uighurs and Tibetans) for many years now and they have come to strongly associate with it (not something Hans can say). Surely, modern China is morally better than ancient Chinese dynasties (or whoever lay claim to that land forcefully)? Or am I expecting too much?
Guess where that's happened before? Show nested quote +
I am not exactly sure what you mean by your last quip. I previously admitted US has committed injustice to the indians.
And now that the uighurs AREN'T the "vast majority" (like the Indians) and they dont "own" their land (Remember when I mentioned they were part of the Chinese dynasties? Yeah, you never refuted that), you feel very comfortable recommending China giving up the sovereignty of those territories while conveniently ignores what's happening at your doorstep. Native American Independence movement is not ancient history, I might add.
Hasty hasty hasty much?
Do you even read my posts before you categorize me as one ofthose "blue-eyed, China-bashing CNN-NBC-devils"?
It takes amazing skill to misinterpret this: "I previously admitted US has committed injustice to the indians."
I am not even American btw.
I clearly state that what US has done was wrong and it's a great shame.
In any case, just because some other country has done some wrong in the past should not be an excuse for doing it yourself. Imagine what insanity this kind of pathetic logic can lead to if one could apply it to Nazi Germany!
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Virtuoso are you trolling or just trying to get your post count up? Because honestly your "debating" has been dog barf.
Until the USA secedes from all territory won by conquest, gives up all economic benefits of centuries of rape and plunder, and gives full and equal rights to all minorities and women, until THAT happens, you should kindly sit down and stfu about the moral outrages of other gov'ts policies.
I find it repulsive, as a US citizen, that you sit here throwing around high-handed ideals while being completely ignorant of your own country's actions. Are you kidding me? American Indians is just a start. I find it pathetic that you dismiss 2 centuries of genocide as "I admit it was wrong, now let's move on." Saying it's wrong don't excuse jack. Would you stop whining if China gave a tacit admission that its imperialist ambitions are wrong, then continue to profit off them? Because the way I see it, California's still US territory (not Mexican), Alaska's Inuits have to live next door to Sarah Palin, and American Indians still have rampant issues with alcoholism, unemployment, domestic abuse, and teenage pregnancy.
Don't sit here like some kind of asstard and talk about how great the USA is and how all their evils are all just some bad dream from the past. You think Cuba wants us housing and torturing our worst criminals on their beach? That sounds like something the Cubans enjoy?
US marines chilling on Okinawa raping schoolgirls? That sounds like something the Japanese enjoy? Not being allowed to build a military is something Japanese enjoy?
The entire oil markets being constrained to using the US currency for the sole reason that the US won WW2 and was able to dictate the economic model for the capitalist market? Then the Socialist system capitulating, leaving the US to utterly rape the commodity system? The entire MidEast region being forced to sell THEIR PRODUCTS and ONLY accepting US currency? LOL?
Seriously, if you have no clue what your country does in terms of hegemony and tyranny on a daily basis, you need to go open a book, not a TL thread. You are WAY off and have absolutely no right to go criticizing other countries for their realpolitik policies. I don't know where the hell you learned your highfalutin idealism, but it sure wasn't in the halls of American government. Maybe you took some crappy 200 section class on Int'l politics in college and think you know what's up now, or maybe you just watch a whole lot of NBC and CNN and now you think you're some kind of geopolitical expert. Regardless, you're arguing pure drivel and you need to stop.
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Hasty hasty hasty much?
Ok, that's not an attack or anything.
Do you even read my posts before you categorize me as one ofthose "blue-eyed, China-bashing CNN-NBC-devils"?
Holy shit man, where did I say you were "one ofthose "blue-eyed, China-bashing CNN-NBC-devils"? " Tense much?
And, no, I didn't read your post, the quotes I used were from a 3rd party.
I am not even American btw.
The fact that you are not an American has given you credibility in this discussion, I have made a little checkmark next to all your comments indicating you posts are unbiased. Good thing I'm no longer Chinese, phew.
Oh, I recommend you select a different country from your profile, by the way.
It takes amazing skill to misinterpret this: "I previously admitted US has committed injustice to the indians."
I TOTALLY read, quoted and responded to that in my post, my bad for the misinterpretation.
I clearly state that what US has done was wrong and it's a great shame.
In any case, just because some other country has done some wrong in the past should not be an excuse for doing it yourself. Imagine what insanity this kind of pathetic logic can lead to if one could apply it to Nazi Germany!
Well then, I don't see any point for further discussion. US is still not giving native people their sovereignty just as China is not giving up her land. I compare the two because both deeds are in the past already, the Chinese province in question is now Chinese, just like every corner on the American and Oceania continents belong to Europeans conquerors and their offsprings.
Finally, did you know that American movie studios produce shit like this every day?
These cowboys and frontier men are not celebrated or anything.
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LOL MY COUNTRY?
I am a Korean citizen. Chill out bro.
Regardless, it doesn't matter what US has done in the past. What da fuck does that have to do with the China? You being proud of the chinese gov't actions, only because of your simplistic claim that "US has done worse" (they really haven't), is just not logical and deplorable. Should a Rwandan proudly proclaim to a German that his county's ongoing genocide is OK because "Nazis have done worse"?
You also make some ridiculous claims. What's the shit about Indians having alcoholism, unemployment etc? And Cuba? I can't even fathom what type of logical fallacy you are making here.
It seems like you have developed a severe case of false victimhood and demonization of the US for everything. I also just love the way you jump to conclusions and treat me like as if I embody CNN and NBC?
It is genuinely disappointing to see that a Chinese who is apparently fluent in English (and hence presumed to have full access to any media and opinions) is only capable of this sort of knee-jerk, blame-US-for-everything mindset. I shudder to think what the Chinese in China are like. Let's just hope you do not represent your people very well.
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Osaka27172 Posts
It appears we have progressed past the scope of the original topic.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://plotter-world.com/movies/western/images/vwest003.jpg)
