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If what you value is a stable job, and wonder if college would help then you need to understand this,
there is a difference between a Job and a Career. Job is something you do to survive,it can be minimum wage job or it can be a high paying job that you don't enjoy, (ex: Neo's job in the matrix, he doesn't enjoy working in a cubical) a Career is something you enjoy doing while getting pay for it. Each person is different, for example Idra has a Career, Tasteless has a Career, they both enjoy whatever they do and in the same time gets pay for doing it. And because they enjoy it, they are incredibly good at doing what they do.
if you don't have a career in mind, College is worthless in this context. However, if you know what you enjoy, and go to college with that goal in mine then college worth every cent you are going to spent on it.
There are different values for different human beings, some people measure success with money, some with family, some with friends, others with knowledge.
Life in college can give you all the above, it's a matter of what you want. college will provide you the tools to get rich, it doesn't teach you how to get rich. College provide you with opportunity to meet new people, expand your social network. Most important aspect of college is the wealth of information you can gather if you are one of those who wants to know it all, the "why seekers" the how and what and all the knowledge in your finger tips. The difference between the knowledge in high school and college is the fact that you have to choose what knowledge you want to pursuit. And the teachers in college does not give a shit if you want to learn or not, as far as they concern you shouldn't be in college if you don't want the knowledge, and you are actually paying for it this time.
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On June 08 2009 06:00 Day[9] wrote:
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GO TO FUCKING COLLEGE GO TO FUCKING COLLEGE GO TO COLLEGE JESUS CHRIST GOTO COLLEGE if you "aren't in the mood for college," at the VERY least go to a 4 year state school, party/play video games a bunch, and get a degree in something you find mildly interesting. NOT going to college will likely be the most enormous mistake of your life. i am normally the most mannered, diplomatic individual on forums, but it fills me with intense rage and disbelief that you would not goto college simply because "you don't feel like it." go to damn college jesus christ GOTO COLLEGE GO TO COOOLLLLEEEEGGGGEE IMMEDIATELY
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Someone once told me Sean Plott was a smart man.
+ Show Spoiler +Actually he told that to me himself.
EDIT: I wonder how long it will take before this thread becomes about economics.
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go to a local trade school for a two year degree. not much school for a good amount of money. in addition, you dont have to deal with abstract crap-- its hands on.
operators for petrochemical plants in the gulf make 40-60k with only two years of school.
edit: only if you are really bent on not going to college though.
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United States12607 Posts
Day[9] said all there is to say on this topic. Go to college. GO!
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On June 08 2009 03:50 Dazed_Spy wrote:
I don't really want to go to college- I have neither the drive nor the grades, to do very well. I dont have the ambition to go for a big degree and get an incredibly well paying job, that simply isnt what I find value in for life. I'm not concerned with materialism or "success". Obviously though, I do want a job thats above minimum wage. I've heard people on TL, and other sites, launch complaints that they went into college when they weren't ready, without experience- and that they should have gotten a job before hand, perhaps sticking with it. So I'm wondering now:
1) Should I avoid college and try to find a decent- not a great- but a decent job? If so, what kind of job would pay decently without a college degree? I'm seriously thinking of mailman!
2) Should I go to college and pick up a random one year degree just to boost my resume, and then go out into the work force as thus?
Really, whats the job market like? Is college essential for anything and everything above mc donalds? Or is just essential for more prestigious white collar jobs? Sorry if this is in the wrong area, it might do better in a blog?
At least go 2 years to a community college. Shit grades are fine, just go with C+'s all the way through. It's very cheap, time schedule is very accommodating. Above all else, it's something on your resume. It shows you put an effort to go into college.
People have said it's hard for college grads to find jobs... well it's the same situation for high school grads with the exception that their market is even more limited. In fact, an employer that would normally hire high school grad workers will now be able to hire college grads simply because of the demand in the market. This is just starting to take place, as many college school students appear to have been stubborn in lowering their standards from what they were promised when they entered.
Yet the entire concept is job signaling. The companies themselves are very aware that most of what you learn in college is of little use to what they can train you themselves. However, a college degree separates a high quality worker from a low quality. Not necessarily even by drive or effort into a job, but also competency. The economic theory that derives from this is that low quality workers look at college and realize "the cost is too high for me to go there, I'm putting in X amount of money AND in order to maintain any decent GPA I'm going to have to suffer X amount of utility [happiness]" while the cost for a highly competent worker is much less, due to them being able to sacrifice much less utility when attending college. Hence the salary differentiation that results, it's all adverse selection if I recall.
Thus in short, go to at least 2 years of community college. It's cheap, won't put you in debt, shows effort, accommodating schedule, and piss easy compared to uni.
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Knowledge is worth more than all money in the world.
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i'm gonna go with Day[9] here
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51671 Posts
On June 08 2009 06:00 Day[9] wrote:
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I'll help you reinforce that ideology.
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There are a number of pro-college posts in this thread that I will have to respectfully disagree with. I believe in a few years college education will not be as valued as it is now.
Why? Well it all depends on what you're majoring in. If you are, let's say a physicist, mathematician, or biologist, college is very, very necessary as these fields are all based in academia. However, if you are going into technology, liberal arts, or business, a college education (while still important) is going to be that much less necessary. Reason being that with the latter majors, you can teach yourself better than any college can through experience.
That being said, college is a great place do be if you have no idea what you want to do (as a majority of people that age do not).
If you really don't want to go, you can make it in some fields with no college at all, though most of the time you will start out being paid less than college graduates.
However, I have no doubt that going to college is much easier than learning through self-experience.
also, people saying college is just for social networking is bullshit. you dont pay thousands of dollars a year to make friends.
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It's amazing to me how almost everyone's programmed to be an employee. College/university is great and there's nothing wrong with having a job/career, but most people who have actual time and money freedom are entrepreneurs. I'd say learn about network marketing.
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well liscenced practical nursing degrees only take a year to get...so if ur interested in that kind of thing u could try becoming an lpn (not bad pay either!)
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I dont have a career in mind, and I dont want a career. I want a job. Colleges in Canada dont help you discover the career you want. You have to know before you go there. American Colleges are bigger versions of highschool, in that they force you to take specefic courses, and then you go from there. Canada you go ONLY to what you pick. If I go to college, it will only be for history, or only for math, etc. I guess I'll think about trade schools, even though im not interested in that.
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Become a bounty hunter. That guy DOG did it so I'm sure you can.
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On June 08 2009 08:05 mahnini wrote:
There are a number of pro-college posts in this thread that I will have to respectfully disagree with. I believe in a few years college education will not be as valued as it is now.
Why? Well it all depends on what you're majoring in. If you are, let's say a physicist, mathematician, or biologist, college is very, very necessary as these fields are all based in academia. However, if you are going into technology, liberal arts, or business, a college education (while still important) is going to be that much less necessary. Reason being that with the latter majors, you can teach yourself better than any college can through experience.
That being said, college is a great place do be if you have no idea what you want to do (as a majority of people that age do not).
If you really don't want to go, you can make it in some fields with no college at all, though most of the time you will start out being paid less than college graduates.
However, I have no doubt that going to college is much easier than learning through self-experience.
also, people saying college is just for social networking is bullshit. you dont pay thousands of dollars a year to make friends.
Harvard Business School is basically that, you pay money to make friends. The "pay to network" thing is exaggerated by many, but you have to admit there is an ounce of truth to it. Assuming you don't hang out with the druggies, you're going to be in a peer group of people who are looking to be successful / looking to use their majors to get jobs / get things done in real life. Where else are you going to find a similar group of people?
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On June 08 2009 08:28 Dazed_Spy wrote:
I dont have a career in mind, and I dont want a career. I want a job. Colleges in Canada dont help you discover the career you want. You have to know before you go there. American Colleges are bigger versions of highschool, in that they force you to take specefic courses, and then you go from there. Canada you go ONLY to what you pick. If I go to college, it will only be for history, or only for math, etc. I guess I'll think about trade schools, even though im not interested in that.
Have you thought about college in the US? I know some friends in the US who went to Canada for college, so I'm guessing the other way around would work too.
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On June 08 2009 08:28 Dazed_Spy wrote:
I dont have a career in mind, and I dont want a career. I want a job. Colleges in Canada dont help you discover the career you want. You have to know before you go there. American Colleges are bigger versions of highschool, in that they force you to take specefic courses, and then you go from there. Canada you go ONLY to what you pick. If I go to college, it will only be for history, or only for math, etc. I guess I'll think about trade schools, even though im not interested in that.
Let me put it this way. What differentiates you from any of the other desperate non-college attending adults in the world that got a meager education at best (as globally we are starting to compete internationally for jobs, I believe something like over 50% of PhDs in engineering awarded in the United States are given to people from India nowadays)?
You are virtually at the bottom of the food chain for desirability. You have the least amount of education, the least drive (and thus due to job signaling you are viewed as of the worst quality possible, save high school drop outs), are in the greatest proportion, etc.
NOTHING differentiates you from another worker. With the unemployment rate being as high as it is, unless things start turning around soon (and they may very well not for a good number of years), you'd be lucky if someone was willing to hire a mere high school graduate at McDonalds. Where I live, there are no McDonalds jobs available, no grocery market jobs, no convenience store jobs, etc. available. And those are the shit minimum wage jobs...
Unless you have something credible to your name (and "hard working" can't be one of them), goodluck.
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On June 08 2009 04:01 Showtime! wrote:
You won't get anywhere without a degree or proper training at a college.
That is to say:
- BA's mean shit now. It doesn't matter where you get it. University is about three things:
1) Good GPA. As long as you keep increasing your GPA then you're good. I know professors who got B-'s within their first year and still made it to the top.
2) Connections. Building a social network is key to your studies.
3) It's where you do your Post Grad studies that count.
I would recommend you check out some colleges. You need the hands on-skills to get you a trade/career.
I would disagree with this; name is definitely just as important, if not more than GPA. Even though you might learn almost the same things at a state school as at an Ivy League one, your chances for getting into a good grad school are significantly higher if you went somewhere prestigious for your undergrad. If you just want to get a job right after your undergrad, it matters even more. For example, I study CS at Carnegie Mellon, and most people who graduate from here with >3.5 get $80k/year jobs (that's our average starting salary). I went to an information session for Oracle and they say the only recruit from a list of like 10 schools in the country, like MIT, Stanford, CMU, Brown, Berkeley, etc.
Of course, social networking is where all the upward mobility's at. Even if you start out pretty well, it's who you know that will let you become even more successful. Knowledge and grades are pointless if you can't make friends and connections.
But that's kind off topic. To the OP: life is all about happiness. Don't do something you really hate just to survive. You've lived like what, 18 years now? You should know what you enjoy (or at least what you don't mind) doing. However, I'm not going to be naive and say that money doesn't matter, because it really does. Although money is just a means to a end, it's a very important one at that. And nothing is a safer and more prosperous bet than going to college, or at least trade school. Maybe studying shit like literature and science isn't your cup of tea, but there has to be something you would like to learn more about and that want to do. I'm sure there's some degree of flexibility in Canadian schools as well, like the ability to switch concentrations or something, right?
I work at CVS (drugstore/convenience store) now, and honestly, I pity a few of my fellow employees. Living from paycheck to paycheck with little money saved up, trying to raise their kids and feed their families. One of the women I work with (middle-aged) doesn't even know how to use a cell phone because of her financial situation. You can try all you want to survive without any education, but chances are, you'll be stuck with very low-paying jobs that will make you regret not going to college.
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There's much in college than education, you'll be missing out
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On June 08 2009 06:00 Day[9] wrote:
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GO TO FUCKING COLLEGE GO TO FUCKING COLLEGE GO TO COLLEGE JESUS CHRIST GOTO COLLEGE if you "aren't in the mood for college," at the VERY least go to a 4 year state school, party/play video games a bunch, and get a degree in something you find mildly interesting. NOT going to college will likely be the most enormous mistake of your life. i am normally the most mannered, diplomatic individual on forums, but it fills me with intense rage and disbelief that you would not goto college simply because "you don't feel like it." go to damn college jesus christ GOTO COLLEGE GO TO COOOLLLLEEEEGGGGEE IMMEDIATELY
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Listen to this man, he came out of the hardest under graduate college in the world
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On June 08 2009 06:00 Day[9] wrote:
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GO TO FUCKING COLLEGE GO TO FUCKING COLLEGE GO TO COLLEGE JESUS CHRIST GOTO COLLEGE if you "aren't in the mood for college," at the VERY least go to a 4 year state school, party/play video games a bunch, and get a degree in something you find mildly interesting. NOT going to college will likely be the most enormous mistake of your life. i am normally the most mannered, diplomatic individual on forums, but it fills me with intense rage and disbelief that you would not goto college simply because "you don't feel like it." go to damn college jesus christ GOTO COLLEGE GO TO COOOLLLLEEEEGGGGEE IMMEDIATELY
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lol i was going to post exactly this but with less colors! unless you are going to make like 150k a year in a job TODAY, it's almost always better to go to college. wtf its not even close.
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EPT
