I don't really want to go to college- I have neither the drive nor the grades, to do very well. I dont have the ambition to go for a big degree and get an incredibly well paying job, that simply isnt what I find value in for life. I'm not concerned with materialism or "success". Obviously though, I do want a job thats above minimum wage. I've heard people on TL, and other sites, launch complaints that they went into college when they weren't ready, without experience- and that they should have gotten a job before hand, perhaps sticking with it. So I'm wondering now:
1) Should I avoid college and try to find a decent- not a great- but a decent job? If so, what kind of job would pay decently without a college degree? I'm seriously thinking of mailman!
2) Should I go to college and pick up a random one year degree just to boost my resume, and then go out into the work force as thus?
Really, whats the job market like? Is college essential for anything and everything above mc donalds? Or is just essential for more prestigious white collar jobs? Sorry if this is in the wrong area, it might do better in a blog?
Graduates this year in Canada have had the worst out-of-college employment success EVER due to the recession. Most of my friends who graduated a couple months ago have zero idea where to work and are either doing masters or mcdonalds till they get something. Obviously im super biased but maybe you should consider something that wont leave you in a 9-5 desk job (ie cop, military, RCMP, Fireman, etc etc). Actually for cop you'd probably want to do Police Foundations at a local college. RCMP is on a huge hiring craze right now so maybe you should investigate that. Just be proactive to find something you want to do with your life.
If you want quick fast cash then go Fort McMurray or to Saskatchewan (i think they have oil sands too).
as far as I can tell what college does is raise the level of where you enter the workforce. if you try to find work straight out of high school you will have trouble finding something above minimum wage, but if you pick the job right and work reasonably hard at it you should be able to make a career out of in the long term (f.ex, in management if you were to work at mcdonald's). what college would do is let you skip the entry-level minimum wage bit. I personally consider higher-level education worth it in number of years you get to skip vs number of years spent going to school, but that's of course my own view and yours is likely to be different. I don't know anything about random one year degrees but from this point of view I suspect they wouldn't really be worth it.
if you do go for a job, try and pick one that has good opportunities in the long term, so even if you are starting at the bottom you know you have somewhere to go.
You won't get anywhere without a degree or proper training at a college.
That is to say:
- BA's mean shit now. It doesn't matter where you get it. University is about three things: 1) Good GPA. As long as you keep increasing your GPA then you're good. I know professors who got B-'s within their first year and still made it to the top. 2) Connections. Building a social network is key to your studies. 3) It's where you do your Post Grad studies that count.
I would recommend you check out some colleges. You need the hands on-skills to get you a trade/career.
find something you enjoy doing and put all of your effort in to that. If you don't want to go to college I would find a 1-2 year professional degree. I know my mom was a stay at home mom all her life who never worked- but now after working at walmart is becoming an appraiser.
Although I would really reconsider getting a degree. Even if it is from a tiny community college it does really matter. My dad who worked for 28 years at TI but was recently laid off is having problems getting a job that pays similarly because he never got a 4 year degree , just a 2 year technical.
So give college a chance? It really is a lot different than high school. I quite enjoyed my first year.
The job market is pretty terrible right now. It'll be very difficult finding anything above minimum wage. With all the outsourcing occurring right now, it becoming increasingly difficult to establish a stable, well-paying career without a college degree. I think you should really consider getting a random 1 or 2 year degree. That way, you'll have a better resume and you'll be able to wait out the recession. From what I've heard, some well-paying career options are:
Construction Mining Fishing Law enforcement
All those are pretty dangerous so basically, they're paying you to risk your life/health. If you don't want that, you can try some service-level jobs like sales or reception.
Find a career, not a job. You're young, don't settle for something you'd hate doing in 5 years. With that being said, you can obviously take whatever job you want to pay the bills right now.
To be quite honest, in this day and age, it's a pretty silly decision not to attend college. It's perfectly fine if you're not materialistic, but why settle for a shitty job when you can have a good one. Even if you don't care about "success," in whatever capacity you define it, earning a BA/BS/etc give you the option of greater choice.
On June 08 2009 04:01 Showtime! wrote: You won't get anywhere without a degree or proper training at a college.
That is to say:
- BA's mean shit now. It doesn't matter where you get it. University is about three things: 1) Good GPA. As long as you keep increasing your GPA then you're good. I know professors who got B-'s within their first year and still made it to the top. 2) Connections. Building a social network is key to your studies. 3) It's where you do your Post Grad studies that count.
I would recommend you check out some colleges. You need the hands on-skills to get you a trade/career.
I would respectfully disagree with the first point.
Good GPA's can help but many businesses that I've dealt with look for the completed degree first then the GPA.
I have some friends who shot for C's all through college and graduated with a solid 2.5 or less and still landed pretty good jobs upon graduating.
On June 08 2009 04:01 Showtime! wrote: You won't get anywhere without a degree or proper training at a college.
That is to say:
- BA's mean shit now. It doesn't matter where you get it. University is about three things: 1) Good GPA. As long as you keep increasing your GPA then you're good. I know professors who got B-'s within their first year and still made it to the top. 2) Connections. Building a social network is key to your studies. 3) It's where you do your Post Grad studies that count.
I would recommend you check out some colleges. You need the hands on-skills to get you a trade/career.
I would respectfully disagree with the first point.
Good GPA's can help but many businesses that I've dealt with look for the completed degree first then the GPA.
I have some friends who shot for C's all through college and graduated with a solid 2.5 or less and still landed pretty good jobs upon graduating.
I think many people will have a problem with your definition of a "pretty good" job.
There are many economic experts [primarily from the austrian school, so im sure any liberal will discard this!) who claim the over-specialization of the economy, the lack of blue collar, remedial, production based jobs was due to the very bubble that is now popping, and as a result, the western economies will shrink and revert to less college based jobs. Time warp back to the 1970's. Thats just what I was thinking. School is terrible for me as a person, and I have a lack of faith in whatever career I decide to get a degree in, actually being there in another ten years.
College is essential for job security. You might think about it this way: primary school hasn't always been public, but it is now, and everyone goes. High school hasn't always been public, but it is now, and everyone goes. College is on the cusp of this change right now -- by the time you're middle aged, a college degree will probably be as standard as a high school degree and you'll be left without one, severely impacting your employability and job security.
Plus, college is a lot of fucking fun and it basically gives you the opportunity to dick around for a few years with very little consequence.
On June 08 2009 04:01 Showtime! wrote: You won't get anywhere without a degree or proper training at a college.
That is to say:
- BA's mean shit now. It doesn't matter where you get it. University is about three things: 1) Good GPA. As long as you keep increasing your GPA then you're good. I know professors who got B-'s within their first year and still made it to the top. 2) Connections. Building a social network is key to your studies. 3) It's where you do your Post Grad studies that count.
I would recommend you check out some colleges. You need the hands on-skills to get you a trade/career.
I would respectfully disagree with the first point.
Good GPA's can help but many businesses that I've dealt with look for the completed degree first then the GPA.
I have some friends who shot for C's all through college and graduated with a solid 2.5 or less and still landed pretty good jobs upon graduating.
I think many people will have a problem with your definition of a "pretty good" job.
I doubt they will. I wouldn't, for one. If you spend your time in college on building up your professional contacts instead, and graduate with the degree, you're ahead of the person who graduates but knows nobody in the industry even if s/he happens to be on the dean's list or whatever (and definitely ahead of the person who has a higher GPA but just below the required cutoff).
Four years at your age isn't much of a time investment because the amount you'd earn by working isn't enough. The boost college will give your resume though is pretty big. Consider your options.
School 1) Four years not working 2) Four years of tuition
Work 1) Immediate money
Think which one is worth more ten years from now. Obviously, I'm telling you to go to college, but try to be objective. As mentioned earlier, the value of "Work" now should be pretty small for you since you don't expect to get a good paying job out of high school.
On June 08 2009 04:12 Dazed_Spy wrote: There are many economic experts [primarily from the austrian school, so im sure any liberal will discard this!) who claim the over-specialization of the economy, the lack of blue collar, remedial, production based jobs was due to the very bubble that is now popping, and as a result, the western economies will shrink and revert to less college based jobs. Time warp back to the 1970's. Thats just what I was thinking. School is terrible for me as a person, and I have a lack of faith in whatever career I decide to get a degree in, actually being there in another ten years.
Don't forget the human aspect of college. You will build so many contacts with so many people who will be successful / helpful to your future.
pharmacy technician, radiology technician, almost any tech job related to medicine isn't a bad job. some of them, you might need 1-2 years of training/ or some minor degree, but they get paid pretty decent. (radiation oncology, the machine technicians start around 60k$)
1) Good GPA. As long as you keep increasing your GPA then you're good. I know professors who got B-'s within their first year and still made it to the top.
I would respectfully disagree with the first point.
Good GPA's can help but many businesses that I've dealt with look for the completed degree first then the GPA.
I have some friends who shot for C's all through college and graduated with a solid 2.5 or less and still landed pretty good jobs upon graduating.
You misinterpreted what I said then.
I'll try to be more clear. You could drink/socialize all you want your first year and have a low GPA and still land a good job; for example, professor or CEO.
As long as your grades increase every year you will be fine.
My Mom has been the CEO & president of several job hunting/specialist firms for over 20 years. This list includes Saber Consulting, CNC and Hays Personnel. This information also comes from George Karlis, who has been a professor at the University of Ottawa for several decades.
If you don't want to go to college I would suggest something like the military. That will be an equally appealing resume booster as college, and you can get experience in whatever area they throw you in. It's especially good since you don't really care what you do or have any life long dreams. You'll be flexible and open minded, great for the military imo.
But in the US, even having a college degree doesn't guarantee you a good "high paying" job. It doesn't even guarantee you a job above minimum wage. You're more likely to get a decently paying wage job, and way more likely than a non-college grad to get a decent salary job, but by far does it not guarantee "material success".
College is still extremely valuable, though. Putting aside the job options it opens in the future, it's also an excellent experience. You're forced to grow up quite a bit very quickly living by yourself and handling things by yourself. Even if your parents are paying for your tuition, you're being thrust into a world much larger and much more unforgiving than high school. It will also teach you social skills that are very important in the professional world.
Now going back to job options...I said it doesn't guarantee you anything above, but that is no reason to ditch out on it. It does guarantee opportunities, and that's more than enough to make a college degree worth it.
Dont brush off a college education on the basis of, "oh I'm not interested in material success/I don't need money". I only hear that from two people: first, from people still in high school who can't really decide whether to go to college or not for one reason or another (like OP), or second, from people who were somehow cockblocked from college, are bitter about it, and try to push a stupid excuse like that.
For the former category...you just don't know how important money is. I don't mean offense, but I highly doubt you've matured enough for that to sink in. The kind of job security and opportunity that a college degree would allow for is superior by leaps and bounds to just a high school degree or GED (in the US).
Money is ridiculously fucking important. You'll be able to get by working minimum wage jobs for now, but once you start getting older and think about relationships/families, it starts getting very, very complicated. As you get older and become more and more independent from your parents and the rest of your family, the issues will start piling up. Car, medical, dental insurance, rent, utilities, living expenses...they all pile up into something nasty and horrendous.
I'm not saying you need a college degree in order to make money, but you do need to think about how you'll make money. College is a very good way to make better money in the future, and is one of the safest options you can take. That's all it is.
On June 08 2009 04:12 Dazed_Spy wrote: There are many economic experts [primarily from the austrian school, so im sure any liberal will discard this!) who claim the over-specialization of the economy, the lack of blue collar, remedial, production based jobs was due to the very bubble that is now popping, and as a result, the western economies will shrink and revert to less college based jobs. Time warp back to the 1970's. Thats just what I was thinking. School is terrible for me as a person, and I have a lack of faith in whatever career I decide to get a degree in, actually being there in another ten years.
This would be a decent hypothesis if it weren't for the fact that so many people go to college. Whether or not the job requires a degree is irrelevant to the fact that a degree makes you more desirable to people hiring. Since the US government is stepping up attempts to get even *more* people to go to college, the bachelor's degree slips ever closer to being a mere minimum requirement to perform any job whatsoever.
On June 08 2009 04:18 StRyKeR wrote: Four years at your age isn't much of a time investment because the amount you'd earn by working isn't enough. The boost college will give your resume though is pretty big. Consider your options.
School 1) Four years not working 2) Four years of tuition
Work 1) Immediate money
Think which one is worth more ten years from now. Obviously, I'm telling you to go to college, but try to be objective. As mentioned earlier, the value of "Work" now should be pretty small for you since you don't expect to get a good paying job out of high school.
If it were as cut and dry and black and white as that, no one would go to college...
I'm a lineman and i love the job. It pays well and the outlook for employment is high with the need to rebuild the national grid and constant need for maintenance in distribution. You don't have to go to college since you learn the trade in a 4 year apprenticeship. Once the apprenticeship is over and you recieve your journeyman card the pay is quite nice, anywhere from 70k to > 100k depending on where you work and how much overtime you want. It's definately for someone who doesn't care to work outside or with high voltage electricity though
On June 08 2009 04:53 KaRnaGe[cF] wrote: I'm a lineman and i love the job. It pays well and the outlook for employment is high with the need to rebuild the national grid and constant need for maintenance in distribution. You don't have to go to college since you learn the trade in a 4 year apprenticeship. Once the apprenticeship is over and you recieve your journeyman card the pay is quite nice, anywhere from 70k to > 100k depending on where you work and how much overtime you want. It's definately for someone who doesn't care to work outside or with high voltage electricity though
That sounds cool...so you're sort of like an on-the-field electrical tech or something?
On June 08 2009 04:53 KaRnaGe[cF] wrote: I'm a lineman and i love the job. It pays well and the outlook for employment is high with the need to rebuild the national grid and constant need for maintenance in distribution. You don't have to go to college since you learn the trade in a 4 year apprenticeship. Once the apprenticeship is over and you recieve your journeyman card the pay is quite nice, anywhere from 70k to > 100k depending on where you work and how much overtime you want. It's definately for someone who doesn't care to work outside or with high voltage electricity though
That sounds cool...so you're sort of like an on-the-field electrical tech or something?
Yeah thats basically the idea. Repair and replace lines, poles, transformers, capacitors, troubleshoot problems. Some people go into working in sub-stations it just depends on what you want to do with your career. Also there are opportunities in most companies to advance your education further while you are working. Being hired by a local utility would be the ideal thing rather than working for a contracter.
1) Should I avoid college and try to find a decent- not a great- but a decent job? If so, what kind of job would pay decently without a college degree? I'm seriously thinking of mailman!
If you can find a "decent" job, and you don't think you have the drive to finish college, then by all means go for it. However, given the current job market, this might be harder than you think, since literally anyone can do these types of jobs.
2) Should I go to college and pick up a random one year degree just to boost my resume, and then go out into the work force as thus?
I don't think this is smart. Unless you actually have an interest in something, I wouldn't waste my time with a one year program just to "boost" my resume.
Really, whats the job market like? Is college essential for anything and everything above mc donalds? Or is just essential for more prestigious white collar jobs? Sorry if this is in the wrong area, it might do better in a blog?
The job market is terrible at the moment, it's actually as bad as media makes it sound. I would not say it's "essential" for everything above McD, but it's seriously something nice to have. Also, a large part of college is networking, which goes above and beyond what you learn in the classrooms.
You are all being incredibly short sighted. The job market will likely explode in the next 3-5 years as boomers continue to retire and we enter a more favorable economic cycle.
This is actually the perfect time to educate yourself. Your alternative is to coast in your current job until things start to open up.
It is a fantastic time to be a young person breaking into the job market. Don't lose sight of that just because the next year or two will be a bust.
In my eyes there is no question that you're better off educating yourself right now if you aren't already working somewhere.
i would say military but it just seems wrong to tell someone to join the military, and there isnt much jobs for a hs grad at this point in time. teach english in korean?
You need some kind of training at least. I am in the trades myself, and I am always going to school to learn new trades. The more shit you can do for your boss the more value you have to them. Its not college but you need to learn skills.
On June 08 2009 03:50 Dazed_Spy wrote: I don't really want to go to college
GOTO COLLEGE GOTO COLLEGE GOTO COLLEGE
GOTO COLLEGE GOTO COLLEGE GOTO COLLEGE
GO TO FUCKING COLLEGE GO TO FUCKING COLLEGE GO TO COLLEGE JESUS CHRIST GOTO COLLEGE
if you "aren't in the mood for college," at the VERY least go to a 4 year state school, party/play video games a bunch, and get a degree in something you find mildly interesting.
NOT going to college will likely be the most enormous mistake of your life.
i am normally the most mannered, diplomatic individual on forums, but it fills me with intense rage and disbelief that you would not goto college simply because "you don't feel like it."
go to damn college jesus christ GOTO COLLEGE GO TO COOOLLLLEEEEGGGGEE IMMEDIATELY
On June 08 2009 06:00 InToTheWannaB wrote: You need some kind of training at least. I am in the trades myself, and I am always going to school to learn new trades. The more shit you can do for your boss the more value you have to them. Its not college but you need to learn skills.
you could try going to a technical college and getting certified/an associate's degree first, and earn more money than high school grad level while thinking about your next step. Plus, your immediate employment after graduation has much greater chances.
I dunno about Canada but here in the central US it seems to work out money-wise. My cousin went to welding school in Tulsa for a year and imeddiately out he lands a $60k job. Now he's working to get in with the boilermaker unions or something while he still pulls decent jobs every few months. Kind of erratic job security I know (at least until he makes it in with a union) but great money for only one year of higher education.
My other cousin (lol big families in Missouri) did the same thing but at a tech school for cars. He worked at a Mercedes factory for a little bit before moving to Texas to work at a dealership.
On the other hand , it's not a perfect solution. A guy I worked construction with went to some auto tech thing in Oklahoma but was working construction in order to make some money first before moving on. :/ Back home, two of my high school buddies who were pretty nerdy ended up becoming head IT for the campus, one right out if high school, the other when the first got busted for smoking pot and took over the first's job. They were only certified at best
My point is it isn't a solution, just an option that won't eat up nearly as much of your time and money as a BA but can net you back more money in return than a HS diploma. Hell just becoming certified means you can demand to be paid more because you ARE certified. You can then decide whether you want to do more, but you'll be paid more while waiting. Don't think that you always have to go straight to college right out of HS. Here at Devry I see plenty of adult students in their late 20s/30s/40 who want to be better supporter for their families etc.
(PS. I wouldn't really recommend DeVry to anybody unless you're going for a business management degree I came up here attracted by their accelerated degrees (BA in 32 months) and touted employment-field-rates but it is seriously a disappointment.)
EDIT:
oh yeah some of the trades that can pay good either immediately or over time that you can go to tech school for:
-Welding (very common) -IT/computer networking (big demand) -Electrician/Lineman (Linemen in particular have good longtime job security/decent pay, I was gonna be one before I chose profession of slacker ) -Automotive tech (dunno a lot about this one but I heard it pays great if you get in with a big company)
On June 08 2009 05:30 ManaBlue wrote: You are all being incredibly short sighted. The job market will likely explode in the next 3-5 years as boomers continue to retire and we enter a more favorable economic cycle.
This is actually the perfect time to educate yourself. Your alternative is to coast in your current job until things start to open up.
It is a fantastic time to be a young person breaking into the job market. Don't lose sight of that just because the next year or two will be a bust.
In my eyes there is no question that you're better off educating yourself right now if you aren't already working somewhere.
Boomers retiring is causing as much trouble as they'll benefit the job market in the future. They're making social security complicated, and will be stressing the economy as money will be put into them with little to none coming out. Plus past that, once the boomers pass away, those jobs that they opened up will go to shit as well.
They're a double-edged sword with the benefits only being temporary.
The job market won't explode in a few years...more positions will open up in relation to them, but I really don't think they're the key to fixing this recession.
If what you value is a stable job, and wonder if college would help then you need to understand this,
there is a difference between a Job and a Career. Job is something you do to survive,it can be minimum wage job or it can be a high paying job that you don't enjoy, (ex: Neo's job in the matrix, he doesn't enjoy working in a cubical) a Career is something you enjoy doing while getting pay for it. Each person is different, for example Idra has a Career, Tasteless has a Career, they both enjoy whatever they do and in the same time gets pay for doing it. And because they enjoy it, they are incredibly good at doing what they do.
if you don't have a career in mind, College is worthless in this context. However, if you know what you enjoy, and go to college with that goal in mine then college worth every cent you are going to spent on it.
There are different values for different human beings, some people measure success with money, some with family, some with friends, others with knowledge. Life in college can give you all the above, it's a matter of what you want. college will provide you the tools to get rich, it doesn't teach you how to get rich. College provide you with opportunity to meet new people, expand your social network. Most important aspect of college is the wealth of information you can gather if you are one of those who wants to know it all, the "why seekers" the how and what and all the knowledge in your finger tips. The difference between the knowledge in high school and college is the fact that you have to choose what knowledge you want to pursuit. And the teachers in college does not give a shit if you want to learn or not, as far as they concern you shouldn't be in college if you don't want the knowledge, and you are actually paying for it this time.
On June 08 2009 03:50 Dazed_Spy wrote: I don't really want to go to college
GOTO COLLEGE GOTO COLLEGE GOTO COLLEGE
GOTO COLLEGE GOTO COLLEGE GOTO COLLEGE
GO TO FUCKING COLLEGE GO TO FUCKING COLLEGE GO TO COLLEGE JESUS CHRIST GOTO COLLEGE
if you "aren't in the mood for college," at the VERY least go to a 4 year state school, party/play video games a bunch, and get a degree in something you find mildly interesting.
NOT going to college will likely be the most enormous mistake of your life.
i am normally the most mannered, diplomatic individual on forums, but it fills me with intense rage and disbelief that you would not goto college simply because "you don't feel like it."
go to damn college jesus christ GOTO COLLEGE GO TO COOOLLLLEEEEGGGGEE IMMEDIATELY
go to a local trade school for a two year degree. not much school for a good amount of money. in addition, you dont have to deal with abstract crap-- its hands on. operators for petrochemical plants in the gulf make 40-60k with only two years of school. edit: only if you are really bent on not going to college though.
On June 08 2009 03:50 Dazed_Spy wrote: I don't really want to go to college- I have neither the drive nor the grades, to do very well. I dont have the ambition to go for a big degree and get an incredibly well paying job, that simply isnt what I find value in for life. I'm not concerned with materialism or "success". Obviously though, I do want a job thats above minimum wage. I've heard people on TL, and other sites, launch complaints that they went into college when they weren't ready, without experience- and that they should have gotten a job before hand, perhaps sticking with it. So I'm wondering now:
1) Should I avoid college and try to find a decent- not a great- but a decent job? If so, what kind of job would pay decently without a college degree? I'm seriously thinking of mailman!
2) Should I go to college and pick up a random one year degree just to boost my resume, and then go out into the work force as thus?
Really, whats the job market like? Is college essential for anything and everything above mc donalds? Or is just essential for more prestigious white collar jobs? Sorry if this is in the wrong area, it might do better in a blog?
At least go 2 years to a community college. Shit grades are fine, just go with C+'s all the way through. It's very cheap, time schedule is very accommodating. Above all else, it's something on your resume. It shows you put an effort to go into college.
People have said it's hard for college grads to find jobs... well it's the same situation for high school grads with the exception that their market is even more limited. In fact, an employer that would normally hire high school grad workers will now be able to hire college grads simply because of the demand in the market. This is just starting to take place, as many college school students appear to have been stubborn in lowering their standards from what they were promised when they entered.
Yet the entire concept is job signaling. The companies themselves are very aware that most of what you learn in college is of little use to what they can train you themselves. However, a college degree separates a high quality worker from a low quality. Not necessarily even by drive or effort into a job, but also competency. The economic theory that derives from this is that low quality workers look at college and realize "the cost is too high for me to go there, I'm putting in X amount of money AND in order to maintain any decent GPA I'm going to have to suffer X amount of utility [happiness]" while the cost for a highly competent worker is much less, due to them being able to sacrifice much less utility when attending college. Hence the salary differentiation that results, it's all adverse selection if I recall.
Thus in short, go to at least 2 years of community college. It's cheap, won't put you in debt, shows effort, accommodating schedule, and piss easy compared to uni.
There are a number of pro-college posts in this thread that I will have to respectfully disagree with. I believe in a few years college education will not be as valued as it is now.
Why? Well it all depends on what you're majoring in. If you are, let's say a physicist, mathematician, or biologist, college is very, very necessary as these fields are all based in academia. However, if you are going into technology, liberal arts, or business, a college education (while still important) is going to be that much less necessary. Reason being that with the latter majors, you can teach yourself better than any college can through experience.
That being said, college is a great place do be if you have no idea what you want to do (as a majority of people that age do not).
If you really don't want to go, you can make it in some fields with no college at all, though most of the time you will start out being paid less than college graduates.
However, I have no doubt that going to college is much easier than learning through self-experience.
also, people saying college is just for social networking is bullshit. you dont pay thousands of dollars a year to make friends.
It's amazing to me how almost everyone's programmed to be an employee. College/university is great and there's nothing wrong with having a job/career, but most people who have actual time and money freedom are entrepreneurs. I'd say learn about network marketing.
well liscenced practical nursing degrees only take a year to get...so if ur interested in that kind of thing u could try becoming an lpn (not bad pay either!)
I dont have a career in mind, and I dont want a career. I want a job. Colleges in Canada dont help you discover the career you want. You have to know before you go there. American Colleges are bigger versions of highschool, in that they force you to take specefic courses, and then you go from there. Canada you go ONLY to what you pick. If I go to college, it will only be for history, or only for math, etc. I guess I'll think about trade schools, even though im not interested in that.
On June 08 2009 08:05 mahnini wrote: There are a number of pro-college posts in this thread that I will have to respectfully disagree with. I believe in a few years college education will not be as valued as it is now.
Why? Well it all depends on what you're majoring in. If you are, let's say a physicist, mathematician, or biologist, college is very, very necessary as these fields are all based in academia. However, if you are going into technology, liberal arts, or business, a college education (while still important) is going to be that much less necessary. Reason being that with the latter majors, you can teach yourself better than any college can through experience.
That being said, college is a great place do be if you have no idea what you want to do (as a majority of people that age do not).
If you really don't want to go, you can make it in some fields with no college at all, though most of the time you will start out being paid less than college graduates.
However, I have no doubt that going to college is much easier than learning through self-experience.
also, people saying college is just for social networking is bullshit. you dont pay thousands of dollars a year to make friends.
Harvard Business School is basically that, you pay money to make friends. The "pay to network" thing is exaggerated by many, but you have to admit there is an ounce of truth to it. Assuming you don't hang out with the druggies, you're going to be in a peer group of people who are looking to be successful / looking to use their majors to get jobs / get things done in real life. Where else are you going to find a similar group of people?
On June 08 2009 08:28 Dazed_Spy wrote: I dont have a career in mind, and I dont want a career. I want a job. Colleges in Canada dont help you discover the career you want. You have to know before you go there. American Colleges are bigger versions of highschool, in that they force you to take specefic courses, and then you go from there. Canada you go ONLY to what you pick. If I go to college, it will only be for history, or only for math, etc. I guess I'll think about trade schools, even though im not interested in that.
Have you thought about college in the US? I know some friends in the US who went to Canada for college, so I'm guessing the other way around would work too.
On June 08 2009 08:28 Dazed_Spy wrote: I dont have a career in mind, and I dont want a career. I want a job. Colleges in Canada dont help you discover the career you want. You have to know before you go there. American Colleges are bigger versions of highschool, in that they force you to take specefic courses, and then you go from there. Canada you go ONLY to what you pick. If I go to college, it will only be for history, or only for math, etc. I guess I'll think about trade schools, even though im not interested in that.
Let me put it this way. What differentiates you from any of the other desperate non-college attending adults in the world that got a meager education at best (as globally we are starting to compete internationally for jobs, I believe something like over 50% of PhDs in engineering awarded in the United States are given to people from India nowadays)?
You are virtually at the bottom of the food chain for desirability. You have the least amount of education, the least drive (and thus due to job signaling you are viewed as of the worst quality possible, save high school drop outs), are in the greatest proportion, etc.
NOTHING differentiates you from another worker. With the unemployment rate being as high as it is, unless things start turning around soon (and they may very well not for a good number of years), you'd be lucky if someone was willing to hire a mere high school graduate at McDonalds. Where I live, there are no McDonalds jobs available, no grocery market jobs, no convenience store jobs, etc. available. And those are the shit minimum wage jobs...
Unless you have something credible to your name (and "hard working" can't be one of them), goodluck.
On June 08 2009 04:01 Showtime! wrote: You won't get anywhere without a degree or proper training at a college.
That is to say:
- BA's mean shit now. It doesn't matter where you get it. University is about three things: 1) Good GPA. As long as you keep increasing your GPA then you're good. I know professors who got B-'s within their first year and still made it to the top. 2) Connections. Building a social network is key to your studies. 3) It's where you do your Post Grad studies that count.
I would recommend you check out some colleges. You need the hands on-skills to get you a trade/career.
I would disagree with this; name is definitely just as important, if not more than GPA. Even though you might learn almost the same things at a state school as at an Ivy League one, your chances for getting into a good grad school are significantly higher if you went somewhere prestigious for your undergrad. If you just want to get a job right after your undergrad, it matters even more. For example, I study CS at Carnegie Mellon, and most people who graduate from here with >3.5 get $80k/year jobs (that's our average starting salary). I went to an information session for Oracle and they say the only recruit from a list of like 10 schools in the country, like MIT, Stanford, CMU, Brown, Berkeley, etc.
Of course, social networking is where all the upward mobility's at. Even if you start out pretty well, it's who you know that will let you become even more successful. Knowledge and grades are pointless if you can't make friends and connections.
But that's kind off topic. To the OP: life is all about happiness. Don't do something you really hate just to survive. You've lived like what, 18 years now? You should know what you enjoy (or at least what you don't mind) doing. However, I'm not going to be naive and say that money doesn't matter, because it really does. Although money is just a means to a end, it's a very important one at that. And nothing is a safer and more prosperous bet than going to college, or at least trade school. Maybe studying shit like literature and science isn't your cup of tea, but there has to be something you would like to learn more about and that want to do. I'm sure there's some degree of flexibility in Canadian schools as well, like the ability to switch concentrations or something, right?
I work at CVS (drugstore/convenience store) now, and honestly, I pity a few of my fellow employees. Living from paycheck to paycheck with little money saved up, trying to raise their kids and feed their families. One of the women I work with (middle-aged) doesn't even know how to use a cell phone because of her financial situation. You can try all you want to survive without any education, but chances are, you'll be stuck with very low-paying jobs that will make you regret not going to college.
On June 08 2009 03:50 Dazed_Spy wrote: I don't really want to go to college
GOTO COLLEGE GOTO COLLEGE GOTO COLLEGE
GOTO COLLEGE GOTO COLLEGE GOTO COLLEGE
GO TO FUCKING COLLEGE GO TO FUCKING COLLEGE GO TO COLLEGE JESUS CHRIST GOTO COLLEGE
if you "aren't in the mood for college," at the VERY least go to a 4 year state school, party/play video games a bunch, and get a degree in something you find mildly interesting.
NOT going to college will likely be the most enormous mistake of your life.
i am normally the most mannered, diplomatic individual on forums, but it fills me with intense rage and disbelief that you would not goto college simply because "you don't feel like it."
go to damn college jesus christ GOTO COLLEGE GO TO COOOLLLLEEEEGGGGEE IMMEDIATELY
GOTO COLLEGE GOTO COLLEGE GOTO COLLEGE
GOTO COLLEGE GOTO COLLEGE GOTO COLLEGE
Listen to this man, he came out of the hardest under graduate college in the world
On June 08 2009 03:50 Dazed_Spy wrote: I don't really want to go to college
GOTO COLLEGE GOTO COLLEGE GOTO COLLEGE
GOTO COLLEGE GOTO COLLEGE GOTO COLLEGE
GO TO FUCKING COLLEGE GO TO FUCKING COLLEGE GO TO COLLEGE JESUS CHRIST GOTO COLLEGE
if you "aren't in the mood for college," at the VERY least go to a 4 year state school, party/play video games a bunch, and get a degree in something you find mildly interesting.
NOT going to college will likely be the most enormous mistake of your life.
i am normally the most mannered, diplomatic individual on forums, but it fills me with intense rage and disbelief that you would not goto college simply because "you don't feel like it."
go to damn college jesus christ GOTO COLLEGE GO TO COOOLLLLEEEEGGGGEE IMMEDIATELY
GOTO COLLEGE GOTO COLLEGE GOTO COLLEGE
GOTO COLLEGE GOTO COLLEGE GOTO COLLEGE
lol i was going to post exactly this but with less colors! unless you are going to make like 150k a year in a job TODAY, it's almost always better to go to college. wtf its not even close.
Something no one else has seemed to bring up: What about, even if you don't care about "success" as society defines it, going to college just to LEARN? I know it's crazy right, but you are probably interested in something out there, whether it be math or engineering or liberal arts or economics or ANYTHING. Even if you don't get a degree in something that makes a shit load of money, I think the time invested would still be worth it and plus college is a shit ton of fun (or so I've heard, still in hs).
On June 08 2009 13:52 sith wrote: Something no one else has seemed to bring up: What about, even if you don't care about "success" as society defines it, going to college just to LEARN? I know it's crazy right, but you are probably interested in something out there, whether it be math or engineering or liberal arts or economics or ANYTHING. Even if you don't get a degree in something that makes a shit load of money, I think the time invested would still be worth it and plus college is a shit ton of fun (or so I've heard, still in hs).
Eh, not so much. The fun comes from the experience of true independence, doing whatever the hell you want, and partying a lot. Especially due to having an average of two-three hours of class total a day that you get to pick when it is, and there's no mandatory hw so you can procrastinate a lot, kinda like I am doing now as I have a final worth 60% of my grade tomorrow. On that note...
I didn't want to say this but every time I glance at this thread it bugs me.. you sound lazy as hell and just looking for an easy way out, trust me I'm pretty lazy too but I'm making it through college (graduating on the 14th)
On June 08 2009 15:15 decafchicken wrote: College is fucking awesome. And quite useful. Go.
Yes. very very true.
Even, if sometimes it gets hard and stuff, most of the time you really grow up while going through college, and it makes you appreciate life in a more "grown up" way, if you may.
To cut it short, Go to college, and learn your shit.
I can't imagine anyone not wanting to go to a place whose sole purpose is to bring people of both sexes at the horniest stage of their lives together, but whatever floats your boat.
If you drop out of college before your degree is done, you won't have much to show for it. The biggest financial gain from college comes from completing your degree. On the other hand, you can quit your job any time, especially if you're young enough not to have financial commitments.
So why not start working first, and then if you feel you would like to upgrade your skills, either quit to pursue a degree or take a correspondence course/night classes while working? That way you won't get stuck in anything longer than you want to, and you'll be able to only take courses you feel are useful to your career advancement.
On June 08 2009 16:01 The Storyteller wrote: I can't imagine anyone not wanting to go to a place whose sole purpose is to bring people of both sexes at the horniest stage of their lives together, but whatever floats your boat.
If you drop out of college before your degree is done, you won't have much to show for it. The biggest financial gain from college comes from completing your degree. On the other hand, you can quit your job any time, especially if you're young enough not to have financial commitments.
So why not start working first, and then if you feel you would like to upgrade your skills, either quit to pursue a degree or take a correspondence course/night classes while working? That way you won't get stuck in anything longer than you want to, and you'll be able to only take courses you feel are useful to your career advancement.
will i get to touch a womens breast in college, even if i have no game right now
On June 08 2009 08:05 mahnini wrote: There are a number of pro-college posts in this thread that I will have to respectfully disagree with. I believe in a few years college education will not be as valued as it is now.
Why? Well it all depends on what you're majoring in. If you are, let's say a physicist, mathematician, or biologist, college is very, very necessary as these fields are all based in academia. However, if you are going into technology, liberal arts, or business, a college education (while still important) is going to be that much less necessary. Reason being that with the latter majors, you can teach yourself better than any college can through experience.
That being said, college is a great place do be if you have no idea what you want to do (as a majority of people that age do not).
If you really don't want to go, you can make it in some fields with no college at all, though most of the time you will start out being paid less than college graduates.
However, I have no doubt that going to college is much easier than learning through self-experience.
also, people saying college is just for social networking is bullshit. you dont pay thousands of dollars a year to make friends.
Harvard Business School is basically that, you pay money to make friends. The "pay to network" thing is exaggerated by many, but you have to admit there is an ounce of truth to it. Assuming you don't hang out with the druggies, you're going to be in a peer group of people who are looking to be successful / looking to use their majors to get jobs / get things done in real life. Where else are you going to find a similar group of people?
I agree with that. The people you meet at a school like Harvard are going to be essential to your success. Think about it. Some of your friend's parents are going to be CEOs, Vice Presidents, etc. of big companies.
EPT
I came up here attracted by their accelerated degrees (BA in 32 months) and touted employment-field-rates but it is seriously a disappointment.)
