|
Osaka27125 Posts
Hello all-
Recently I have noticed a decrease in forum quality, a concern echoed by some other staff and forum members. I would like you all to remember my analogy for TL:
Imagine your friend invites you to somebody's house for dinner. You would probably be polite right? Then, once you got to know people you relax a little bit. TeamLiquid is just like that. If you are new, show respect, be polite, and have something to contribute. There are many people here who have been visiting this house for a long time. Respect that too.
If you have been to dinner before, show the new person around and help make them comfortable. That is your responsibility.
If you follow this simple illustration, then this place will be a much more enjoyable experience.
Here is an example of a quality thread:
[H]Where can I DL a "Zerg Micro Map?"
To both forum veterans and new users, please be advised that I will be enforcing my interpretation of TeamLiquid much more strictly over the next month or so. In addition, we as a staff will re-evaluate the effectiveness of the way we moderate and hopefully help add to a better environment.
If you have any questions, please send me a PM.
- Manifesto7
|
hopefully you can moderate this, or because they've visited this house a long time is it ok?
|
Osaka27125 Posts
On January 03 2009 20:18 Manifesto7 wrote:
If you have any questions, please send me a PM.
- Manifesto7
This is not going to turn into a finger pointing thread. Please PM me or another moderator if you have an issue.
|
I agree with you, the last two posts before yours were truly stupid.
[edited]
Hey, just because some people get away with speeding, doesn't mean you will too right?
|
Osaka27125 Posts
I didn't say there was slack. Both posts have been removed. But this thread is not one to point fingers in.
|
Ive been reading TL.net since like 2005/2006 I finally made an account 2-3 months back, and I've noticed that you guys feed in to the "respect the older members" way too much. Most people who make new accounts I'm sure are like me because not many people are just starting to play starcraft. You "forum veterans" need to be easier on the new guys, ever notice how people with 3 posts and whatnot are usually never heard from again?
It's probably because some admin decided "this thread is retarted, Closed" when you SHOULD of given a reason, some constructive critizism, or just moved the thread to blogs.
OR it could be all the idiotic 1 liner insults heaps of members like to throw out so much.
IMO if I actually gave a shit about what a bunch of nerdlings thought of me I wouldn't use this site due to the fact that most (51%+) of the people that use this site are newby hipocrits.
Really I continue to use it because every now and then I can lend a helping hand to one of the newer people who end up pming me questions because they dont wana get burned all over the forums. Also every once in a blue moon a generally good thread comes along thats fun to participate in.
So i know you want to be stricter in a sense of posts and stuff, but if you let people feel like they were a part of the community (which they are/will be if you give them a chance) before you start flaming them and nuking accounts, maybe JUST MAYBE by the time they hit that 100th post they will have something genuine to add and contribute to the TL forums.
Otherwise, there really isn't an unlimited amount of people that you can sign up for this website, SC2 wont be out for who knows how long (its blizzard expect earty 2010 is my guess). Websites that dont get new members, dont get hits, if they dont get hits, they lose on sponcers and advertisements, they lose on sponcers and advertisements they usually BUST. TL has been around for a while, and probably will continue to be. But probably is only 51+% not 100. Nothing is forever.
That kid you flame just might click on the razer banner on the bottom of the site and buy a mouse that keeps razer thinking, Hey these guys brought us a ton of business lets keep that add on the page.
So manifesto7 before you go all old-school or nuke, why don't you shove some constructive critisizm or send a friendly PM on what you expect their next post to consist of. As a forum admin isn't that your job?
anyways thats just my 2cents hope you got something from it
EDIT:
On January 03 2009 20:38 Cambium wrote:I agree with you, the last two posts before yours were truly stupid. [edited] Hey, just because some people get away with speeding, doesn't mean you will too right?
I had to quote this because this is exactly what I'm talking about, don't hate on the new people, try and tell them their mistakes or your going to lose their "business".
|
Belgium9944 Posts
On January 03 2009 20:43 GearitUP wrote:
IMO if I actually gave a shit about what a bunch of nerdlings thought of me I wouldn't use this site due to the fact that most (51%+) of the people that use this site are newby hipocrits.
Really I continue to use it because every now and then I can lend a helping hand to one of the newer people who end up pming me questions because they dont wana get burned all over the forums. Also every once in a blue moon a generally good thread comes along thats fun to participate in.
I had to quote this because this is exactly what I'm talking about, don't hate on the new people, try and tell them their mistakes or your going to lose their "business".
Wow you're arrogant.
|
To GearITUP
I donno.
It's a forum. You read, you write, discuss, w/e. What could "new" people possibly fuck up? lol
A general rule for me is that, if I think there is something that affects a lot of people, I put it in the general. If it is personal, I make it a blog. Tada. =D
And I can tell you that my 1k+ posts on here doesn't mean shit lol. Mods don't care either and sometimes I say stupid things and get a temporary ban for it and some people call me a dick. Like when I said HovZ isn't a real black guy but actually an albino. Rekrul banned me. And another time when I said "GG no Re" I got a ban for that too, lol.
And ever since that happened, I've been watching what I say more carefully. There was one incident where someone in the "beating kids" thread called me an idiot and I lost my cool on him but it just takes some tough love to get used to the forums. I think TL-net is great so I don't know where all this hate is coming from. It really is just tough love; A lot of douche bags come on here and rant, and sometimes it takes another guy with the power to act like a douche bag to shut that guy up.
Lol, I'm not making too much sense. But anyway, you're making TL-net sound worse than what it really is.
|
On January 03 2009 20:50 RaGe wrote:
Wow you're arrogant.
END QUOTE
Ok you can take my words out of context and continue to give me your one liner insult or you can listen to what I have to say, becuase its legitimate and I put it out there because its the truth.
If you guys didn't hate on the new people so much who knows how much more TL.net could of been? More sponcers? More cash? Maybe actually put some cash in your pockets?
All these kids you flame are your CUSTOMERS, treat them as such. I go to college for Business/sales+marketing and this is introductory level stuff.
Ever go to a restaurant and wait too long for your food? Makes you kinda upset right? Ever go to a restaurant and they fuck up a lot, bring you the wrong food? Didn't order that drink? Steak is rare you ordered well done? These customers generally don't go back to that restaurant and as we all know bad news travels faster than good news right?
What if you burn some kid that is the leader of his clan thats been around for for 3+ years, I'm sure his members care about him more than they care about you shit you just lost 10 active members and sent them packing to gosugamers.net.
This is shit to think about. Every time you send some kid packing, your taking money out of the guy who owns TL.nets pockets. (I have no idea who owns TL.net and I'm sure you admins are close to him otherwise you wouldn't probably be admins) BUT If I own a pizza place and my BROTHER comes in drunk, sits at a table with a family of four and tells the kids mom she has a nice ass right in front of her husband... I'm not letting my brother come back into my pizza place.
So you can quote my shit and call me arrogant oh so swiftly RaGe or suck it up and say to yourself, shit that arrogant prick has a point, which is totally A-OK with me.
|
OK the next few paragraphs are referring to your analogy, but I agree with the other stuff like keeping posts quality and being very strict in ensuring everyone abides by this.
I disagree. Why be more lenient with people you know? Some people are different to others and it would be the host (in this case one who lets ANYONE in their house) to cater for them (not only in the sense of having all these great resources here) but be polite back, as before the person visiting has settled in how should they know how to act or when they are doing something wrong. Either way I don't think you should be more lenient on people you know to be jokers or whatever and then go and promote double standards by getting angry at the new guy who only posts infrequently for doing the same thing.
That might be reading into what you posted the wrong way, but I know it is a common thing I find and deters people from a community before they have fully settled in. I say give leeway to new people but be harsh if they don't abide by the rules when they should know better or have been repeatedly warned. On the other hand, veteran posters should know better but you would hesitate in taking any action on them knowing how much they contribute or how high ranked they are in the popularity contest and I don't think that is 100% right.
I say as long as you lay down the ground rules and show you mean it when it comes to inappropriate behaviour by old or new members, and showing you are serious, then everyone should get along fine. Similarly, it takes two to tango so when there is bm flying about it might be because someone else has started it somewhere.
|
|
|
On January 03 2009 21:10 Lamentations wrote:
OK the next few paragraphs are referring to your analogy, but I agree with the other stuff like keeping posts quality and being very strict in ensuring everyone abides by this.
I disagree. Why be more lenient with people you know? Some people are different to others and it would be the host (in this case one who lets ANYONE in their house) to cater for them (not only in the sense of having all these great resources here) but be polite back, as before the person visiting has settled in how should they know how to act or when they are doing something wrong. Either way I don't think you should be more lenient on people you know to be jokers or whatever and then go and promote double standards by getting angry at the new guy who only posts infrequently for doing the same thing.
That might be reading into what you posted the wrong way, but I know it is a common thing I find and deters people from a community before they have fully settled in. I say give leeway to new people but be harsh if they don't abide by the rules when they should know better or have been repeatedly warned. On the other hand, veteran posters should know better but you would hesitate in taking any action on them knowing how much they contribute or how high ranked they are in the popularity contest and I don't think that is 100% right.
I say as long as you lay down the ground rules and show you mean it when it comes to inappropriate behaviour by old or new members, and showing you are serious, then everyone should get along fine. Similarly, it takes two to tango so when there is bm flying about it might be because someone else has started it somewhere.
What an excellent post by a person with less than 100 posts. I appreciate you coming out of the wood works and letting people know how you feel. Good Shit yo, Well said Double standards do suck.
|
United States42022 Posts
Go read gg.net if you think tl is doing it wrong. And then play in the carrier league and enjoy the Gosugamers Black tournament. And of course don't forget their wonderful forums.
Seriously, tl is doing nothing wrong by being strict. I'll put it in words you'll understand. Say you own a nightclub with a strict dresscode. That means you're turning away potential customers but the ones who do go there have a better experience because they're getting the quality they come for. If you drop the rules and make it a free for all you lose quality, alienate the regulars and ultimately lose customers long term.
On tl the dress code is good posting. This in turn creates an environment in which people want to contribute. Every single one of the Final Edits is worth more than the entire gg.net articles section. Our strategy forum is full of guides where people have devoted countless manhours to it.
You're being arrogant and you're wrong. And there is no postcount elitism here. If a guy has 5k posts I'll know who he is because I'll have seen them, and I'll either respect him or disrespect him based on what I've seen. Whereas if a guy has no posts then I'll not know who he is.
|
On January 03 2009 21:10 Lamentations wrote:
Similarly, it takes two to tango so when there is bm flying about it might be because someone else has started it somewhere.
Cool, however, there are a few exceptions to this sentence of yours like,
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=84664
BlackStar is just dick. And I don't think he acts like that to "new members" either, he's just a dick in general.
He called me or at least implied that I was an idiot. Fuck, what a douche bag.
|
United States42022 Posts
Oh, and the suggestion that "maybe, just maybe, they'll have a decent post by their 100th" isn't a great argument. If a forum member was maintaining a ratio of 99 crap posts to 1 good he probably should be banned.
|
On January 03 2009 21:18 Kwark wrote:
Oh, and the suggestion that "maybe, just maybe, they'll have a decent post by their 100th" isn't a great argument. If a forum member was maintaining a ratio of 99 crap posts to 1 good he probably should be banned.
LOL, like that guy who was banned for posting "=\" in like a hundred threads.
|
I like TL's moderation policy. As it is I find TL just about the most all-around intelligent and good-natured forum, contrasting with the cesspits that most other open forums end up becoming. There can be no doubt strictness in moderation is directly correlated with forum QUALITY.
If you drop the rules and make it a free for all you lose quality, alienate the regulars and ultimately lose customers long term.
On tl the dress code is good posting. This in turn creates an environment in which people want to contribute. Every single one of the Final Edits is worth more than the entire gg.net articles section. Our strategy forum is full of guides where people have devoted countless manhours to it.
This man speaks the truth
|
On January 03 2009 21:18 Kwark wrote:
Oh, and the suggestion that "maybe, just maybe, they'll have a decent post by their 100th" isn't a great argument. If a forum member was maintaining a ratio of 99 crap posts to 1 good he probably should be banned.
Why...? That makes no sense, I disagree with you 100%. What do you consider a crap post.
If someone goes on the strategy forum sees something they like and posts, "wow i never thought of that, thanks for the strat."
Really, they didn't contribute anything, the post isn't really that amazing. Merely showing your appreciation for a good post I feel IS a good post, not only have you boosted someones ego but you inspire them to make more good posts and that in turn helps the community.
Let me ask you Kwark how many times have you quoted something and only added
LOL
at the bottom, dont try and tell me you've never done it, really thats a crap post. But sometimes its not WHAT you post, but what you got from the OP.
Really the quote I got from you is a crap post... you didn't add anything positive to the community all, all you did was add your negativity to a very good thread.
|
United States42022 Posts
The post you're objecting to was me disagreeing with you. And yet you're disagreeing with that and accusing me of being negative. Sigh. All you did was add your negativity to a very good thread.
A crap post is, as you say, just adding lol. Saying you appreciate something is fine. This should be fairly self evident. And I very rarely just say lol. It's a waste of forum space.
|
kwark is quite right.
also, you could just as easily make the argument that its this sentiment that we SHOULDNT be so hard on the newbies that is negatively affecting the forums. this sentiment has been growing with time in direct correlation to the degradation of the forums. Also, all these veterans you think are being so harsh have gone through the exact plight you highlight without stepping out of line (else they'd have been corrected or banned)
however, very obviously with this sort of idea the admins and vets shape the forum. which obviously isnt much working either.
a seemingly delicate situation, only to be corrected by an individuals resolution to improve their quality in an effort to make it a collective process. maybe.
er that is to say that no one should point the finger at a group of people. its on the individual or the whole.
|
I agree with you, Gear. The real problem is that all the old-timers have become douchebags.
I mean, just look at RaGe's post.
|
On January 04 2009 05:13 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote:
I agree with you, Gear. The real problem is that all the old-timers have become douchebags.
I mean, just look at RaGe's post.
RaGe could've written an essay on the topic but really, the whole thing came clear in a few words. Expressing your opinion should not require walls of text unless of course the situation calls for it.
You really can't deny it sounding arrogant as hell either.
|
On January 04 2009 05:13 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote:
I agree with you, Gear. The real problem is that all the old-timers have become douchebags.
I mean, just look at RaGe's post.
summation : You're right, rage is a doucebag.
thank you for your individual effort.
|
Kennigit
Canada19447 Posts
Further derailment of this thread will be met with swift justice.
|
Understood Mani!
I'll try even harder now by posting and contribute more! :O
|
clazziquai's country picks 08
*shudder*
|
Ugh another one of these purges. These things do little to improve the quality of posting here rather it just turns into finger pointing, name calling and then temp bans. Its good that you are trying to improve post quality, but your method (or lack thereof) has not the effects you desire and quiet possibily detracts from the quality of disscussion on the forum.
|
On January 04 2009 05:22 MYM.Testie wrote:
clazziquai's country picks 08
*shudder*
LOLOLOL
|
On January 04 2009 05:25 AdamBanks wrote:
Ugh another one of these purges. These things do little to improve the quality of posting here rather it just turns into finger pointing, name calling and then temp bans. Its good that you are trying to improve post quality, but your method (or lack thereof) has not the effects you desire and quiet possibily detracts from the quality of disscussion on the forum.
The Stategy forum purge did a damn good job.
So did the Purge of '08. While these threads can turn into somewhat of a shitstorm, I think the overall forum quality tends to increase.
|
United States24582 Posts
The people complaining the most are probably the ones who are most at risk (not just in this thread but in general). The problem isn't with how strict tl is; it's with how consistent it is. I think if tl staff agrees to make an effort to be consistent in how they lay down the law here
(which I think they have been doing lately), then it's more than reasonable for them to expect everybody to apply a bit of self-reflection, and maintain a good level of posting quality.
|
On January 04 2009 05:13 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote:
I agree with you, Gear. The real problem is that all the old-timers have become douchebags.
I mean, just look at RaGe's post.
DING DING DING.
|
On January 04 2009 05:32 DoctorHelvetica wrote:Show nested quote +On January 04 2009 05:25 AdamBanks wrote:
Ugh another one of these purges. These things do little to improve the quality of posting here rather it just turns into finger pointing, name calling and then temp bans. Its good that you are trying to improve post quality, but your method (or lack thereof) has not the effects you desire and quiet possibily detracts from the quality of disscussion on the forum. The Stategy forum purge did a damn good job. So did the Purge of '08. While these threads can turn into somewhat of a shitstorm, I think the overall forum quality tends to increase.
Now that you mention it, the strategy forum did go from 0 - 100 but i think that was a special case. I just find these threads redundant and are just ban bait for some newb to speak there mind to someone with a pile of post's even tho both may have a point in their respective argruements.
Anyway, maybe i'm wrong and this thread will keep me from having to wonder if you sit or stand when you wipe.
|
United States42022 Posts
Rage's response was a perfectly correct one to some nobody with no idea what tl is or how it works telling everyone else how it should be run. When I read his post I thought the same as Rage, I just don't quite have the necessary cynicism to stop bothering explaining to self righteous idiots that they're idiots. It's a fault.
|
Belgium9944 Posts
On January 04 2009 05:13 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote:
I agree with you, Gear. The real problem is that all the old-timers have become douchebags.
I mean, just look at RaGe's post.
...
I have read a shitload of GearItUp posts and 99% of them were terrible. Then, as one of the worst low post count users he starts giving us shit for giving veterans some more credit?
Not to mention the way in which he did it..
(this is in reply to GearItUp
The small advantages that we give to veteran users are advantages they earned. And while sometimes it may be a bit unfair, I often get the feeling that a lot of previously permbanned users and warned/tempbanned users use it as an excuse. "If I had more posts I wouldn't have been banned for that." or "There are forum regulars that post worse than me." are the worst excuses I personally can imagine for bad posting behaviour.
First of all, low post count or high post count, before a ban a mod will ALWAYS look at your post history. If you don't contribute at all, badmouth other people don't blame TLs moderating system. Blame yourself. I'm 100% convinced that every single person on this planet could post actively on TL and not get banned, as long as he puts effort, thought and respect into his posts. We never ban based off personality (with LastShadow etc being obvious exceptions).
Secondly, as previously mentioned, while this slight advantage giving to veterans might be a bit unfair compared to other forum moderating systems, it definately churns out the best forum quality. Doesn't seniority always play a role in every active community? Otherwise it's really hard to moderate and/or maintain a quality standard in the forums.
Also, I would like to react to your 'Customer Is King' argument. Who the fuck do you think you are, GearItUp ? 'Im a new poster, I make you guys money, serve me bitches' is basically the aura that came off of your posts. Every single active staff member of TeamLiquid gives a lot to the TL community without getting any kind of money out of it. No, we do it cause we like the community and it's high standards. Your argument says that we should "adapt to the customer's needs". I think that a staff filled with people that are committed to the community are allowed to demand a good post quality from that community. They are allowed to determine what defines a good post and what defines a bad post.
Now, I'm not asking you to bow humbly for all staff members, but the least you could show some respect to the set of rules they defined, the set of rules that made this website have a high quality community for so many years. You're new around here, and while it would indeed be unfair of me to judge you based on your joining date/post count, you should realize that you're 1. too new and mostly 2. too much of a HORRIBLE poster to fully understand how TL works, let alone redefine our standards.
I doubt you're even gonna read this. You're probably just gonna cry over the ban you've just been given, whine that it's all because you're a low post count user, and never change your arrogant attitude.
|
I would just like to take this threadspace to show my appreciation to the mods. Don't listen to the ones that don't understand why you do what you do to keep this forum so bad ass.
Keep up the good work guys... I don't think I've ever been part of a forum that was run so well. As always I'll be avoiding making wasteful posts. Hopefully everyone else will to and we can all make this a better place.
Just felt the need to put in my 2cts after all the hatin'
|
ok here's my take on it
What's the problem?
75% of the forums in general (and in other forums, although there are much less there) turn into shitstorms of insulting and people eventually getting banned. And we get random, overall shitty threads that usually get closed as soon as a mod sees it. Don't think the mods should just moderate more strictly, because most of the posts I see aren't worth a banning, just a warning or something of the sort.
Huh? What's wrong with this?
Well, the shitstorm is definitely not a way to encourage new users to post here. I joined teamliquid 9 months ago, and lurked for about 3-4 months before I made an account. At first I was posting in the general forum, but that has gradually decreased as the number of random arguments ensuing mass insulting has increased. As for the random, shitty threads, just look at the /b/ board of 4chan. Most people don't like that.
Well? What should we do?
Well, looking at the general threads, most of the shitstorms start with a difference in opinion, in which one person will begin to insult someone who's opinion differs from theirs. Arguments in the general forum are unavoidable, and there is no reason to stop them, they give out good info to people who read it, along with different viewpoint on the issues. But, please don't use anything insulting in your retort, just say something along the lines of "I disagree, and here's why/my point _______." In the general forum we see people insulting each other nonstop. I want the flaming/trolling to stop.
But dis n00b is dumb lolololol, can i flame plz???//
No, let the mods deal with posts that are obviously against the commandments. Do not reply to them.
Should I make this thread? Or will it get closed?
I just request that you really think before you make a new thread or post. Just use common sense on whether you think it will be closed, and whether it is an overall acceptable thread.
Key Points
- The improvement of the forums is in your hands as a poster, the moderators can only do so much.
- Respect people's opinions, don't insult them for it.
- If someone's post is inappropriate for teamliquid, or violates the commandments, etc, just ignore it and let the mods deal with it.
- THINK BEFORE YOU POST.
|
United States20661 Posts
It's not like forum veterans have complete carte blanche; many 1000+ post accounts have been banned before.
I don't see this so much as a Red Scare as a much-needed restoration of order.
|
I've always felt that TL has *excellent* forums. Maybe I haven't been here long enough (lurked for a short time and then created an account), to really judge, but to me it seems that TL in general excels in the forums department. However, as with any forums, you will see the bad apples that are usually just bored children who come to more or less pollute the community. Sometimes I will post things that may not 'contribute' anything (this post maybe), but still aren't completely irrelevant. Flame fests are something that plague almost every community, and the only solution is the exact topic of this thread.
I don't exactly think everyone has the same idea of a "good post", but I guess that it's going to be the moderators job to decide that. Anyone who has ever been a part of any forum basically has to accept that before they even begin posting. I've never seen a thread get closed on TL that I didn't think warranted it. And I commend the moderators for that.
Anyway, always glad to hear that the administrators are going to make more of an effort to ensure quality on the forums. Not saying it's needed, but always good to hear that people are on top of that. I come from a place where the forums are absolutely mind-boggling. Not in a good way, either. Everyone who complains about TL's forums needs to take a look at a lot of other forums. cough cough.
Where else can you really connect with fellow pro SC fans on this level? Riddle me that.
|
Though I read this forum a lot more than I post, I do enjoy the moderation policies. I can hardly think of a thread where i've been reading and said "shit, he should have gotten a ban that was really rude", and there wasn't any action taken. It can get a bit heated in some of the more in depth discussions (politics/morals threads), but that happens everywhere.
And I don't see what the problem is being harder on new people? Your first hundred posts (though mine where less than stellar) are a good indication of your attitude for the rest of your time here, and it's not a problem to make judgments based on the fact that you have only 75 posts and 20 of them are outright flames. Meanwhile we would have older members making the same kinds of posts, but it's let slide sometimes because their overall % of good/bad posts is a lot better than the 75/20 of the new member. It has less to do with favoritism and a lot more to do with a large % of someones posts being shitty.
|
Whoops, double post. Don't know how that happened. :\
|
United States24582 Posts
On January 04 2009 06:00 RaGe wrote:Show nested quote +On January 04 2009 05:13 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote:
I agree with you, Gear. The real problem is that all the old-timers have become douchebags.
I mean, just look at RaGe's post. ... I have read a shitload of GearItUp posts and 99% of them were terrible. Then, as one of the worst low post count users he starts giving us shit for giving veterans some more credit? Not to mention the way in which he did it.. (this is in reply to GearItUp The small advantages that we give to veteran users are advantages they earned. And while sometimes it may be a bit unfair, I often get the feeling that a lot of previously permbanned users and warned/tempbanned users use it as an excuse. "If I had more posts I wouldn't have been banned for that." or "There are forum regulars that post worse than me." are the worst excuses I personally can imagine for bad posting behaviour. First of all, low post count or high post count, before a ban a mod will ALWAYS look at your post history. If you don't contribute at all, badmouth other people don't blame TLs moderating system. Blame yourself. I'm 100% convinced that every single person on this planet could post actively on TL and not get banned, as long as he puts effort, thought and respect into his posts. We never ban based off personality (with LastShadow etc being obvious exceptions). Secondly, as previously mentioned, while this slight advantage giving to veterans might be a bit unfair compared to other forum moderating systems, it definately churns out the best forum quality. Doesn't seniority always play a role in every active community? Otherwise it's really hard to moderate and/or maintain a quality standard in the forums. Also, I would like to react to your 'Customer Is King' argument. Who the fuck do you think you are, GearItUp ? 'Im a new poster, I make you guys money, serve me bitches' is basically the aura that came off of your posts. Every single active staff member of TeamLiquid gives a lot to the TL community without getting any kind of money out of it. No, we do it cause we like the community and it's high standards. Your argument says that we should "adapt to the customer's needs". I think that a staff filled with people that are committed to the community are allowed to demand a good post quality from that community. They are allowed to determine what defines a good post and what defines a bad post.Now, I'm not asking you to bow humbly for all staff members, but the least you could show some respect to the set of rules they defined, the set of rules that made this website have a high quality community for so many years. You're new around here, and while it would indeed be unfair of me to judge you based on your joining date/post count, you should realize that you're 1. too new and mostly 2. too much of a HORRIBLE poster to fully understand how TL works, let alone redefine our standards. I doubt you're even gonna read this. You're probably just gonna cry over the ban you've just been given, whine that it's all because you're a low post count user, and never change your arrogant attitude.
Rage, to add to what you said:
Manifesto7 has made it very clear that new members of the community are entering our house (by 'our', I mean everyone who already actively participates in the community, with an emphasis on the people who work hard to keep it running smoothly). While it's wrong for any veteran or staff to place unreasonable expectations on a new member (such as hold them to ridiculous standards until they can amass X number of posts without getting banned), it's reasonable for new members to be willing to conform to the established community.
|
Kennigit
Canada19447 Posts
I closed someone's thread yesterday and he PMed me confused and after a brief discussion via PM it came up that he simply didn't know we expect high standard in OPs/Threads. This is an issue we will be addressing for ANY user making threads.
The reason many new posters have issue with "veteran status" and the leeway they get is simple ignorance. I routinely get asked why incontrol gets more leniency than a new poster - its because he is a valued member of the community and has contributed ALOT whether he trolls a bit or not. This is the case with most veterans that people have "issue" with, but the 10 or so posts that a new user may read of said member doesn't do them justice - nor are they really in a position to be judging anyways.
That being said, I do think quality has dropped recently specifically with an influx of new users in SC2/General posting links with 2 lines in an OP. It's not so much a crackdown on posters as much as an education on what is expected so that new posters can become valued members of the community - we were all noobs once.
|
I read tl.net for 6 years and there is one one thing I know for sure. Every shitty poster has been banned sooner or later.
The increase of popularity of the site (there are 1000 people browsing now, in the begining there were no more that 50-60) brings a lot of lot low-quality posters here. I find this pretty normal.
This being said, I consider myself very low-quality poster, thats why I don`t write many comments or get in arguments or try to be "cool". I just love starcraft and admire what tl.net and its admins have done.
My personal opinion is that everyone disrespecting tl.net is disrespecting Starcraft so they must be banned.
|
it is not the admins' job to teach people how to make a meaningful, fallacy free post, because in order to learn something the one doing the learning must be willing to learn. This just don't happen for the majorities of the noobs here. Therefore what is left to do is to kindly remove all those who can't make an argument and refuse to learn how. So that the rest of us who know how to can enjoy a meaningful debate and share ideas, and most importantly of all, learn something from it.
People would argue that what qualification do the admins have to decide whether a post is full of fallacies and adds nothing for the community but bigotry. The answer is here
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=17883
The ten commandment is to help those of us that can't post without commiting fallacies, and bigotry.
|
umm I dont think hes flaming the thread. It says " heres an example of a quality thread"
I think that means its a good thread? Quality = good right?
|
If any new poster has terrible doubts on how to make a good post:
just click search, search art of posting, by VGI-CoW
then read. It's pretty entertaining thread, and useful
|
One annoying thing I have noticed lately is that people dont read the threads. They read the opening post and maybe the last page and thats is it. Dont really remember what thread it was but a question was answered like 3-4times and still people were asking it again and again.
Or once in a while I see a very interesting post that someone have put some effort and research behind pretty much get ignored due to the flood of nonsense posts.
Unfortunately this behavior cant really be moderated so I guess I just have to ignore those threads.
Or I'm just old and bitter remembering what TL.net used to be when I lurked and later joined in 02-03.
|
Didn't read every single post in this thread since the fighting started to become wearisome for me but I'll throw my 5 cents in aswell.
I'm a long time reader but a pretty new member (1 year maybe? Can't be bothered checking it ). I'm also a bit of a lurker. Because of this I have a low post count. I am the kind of guy who generally don't type stuff unless I feel I have something to contribute with. I haven't felt discriminated against in any way for having a low post count and I feel like that part of the discussion is just a lie. Some people get butchered for being newbies but mostly because they wrote something about something they know very little to nothing about. The people that bully these guys the worst are in my opinion the 100-500 post guys. People that have gotten their posts up a bit and feel like playing veteran even though they really aren't and thus they just come off as unpleasant people. I can't remember seeing a 2k+ posts guy flame someone wrongfully and I've certainly never seen a mod doing it.
Everyone that plays starcraft regularly think they know more than they actually do (including me ofcouse). Hence all the imba whine and theorycrafting fights that are found in every single BW forum. Some people don't know when to keep it to themselves though. You don't start flaming others on a subject you're not sure about. It's gonna come back and bite you hard later.
I agree with being a bit more lenient towards banning veterans since the fact that they probably contributed more and will contribute more in the future can make up for their mistakes as long as they better themselves. Of course it can feel unfair that new guys get banned because they are new and don't know how to do stuff yet but as long as they are given a chance to learn I don't see the problem in banning people that disregard the rules. Including people that continually fail to name their posts correctly and such.
|
On January 04 2009 05:25 AdamBanks wrote:
Ugh another one of these purges. These things do little to improve the quality of posting here rather it just turns into finger pointing, name calling and then temp bans. Its good that you are trying to improve post quality, but your method (or lack thereof) has not the effects you desire and quiet possibily detracts from the quality of disscussion on the forum.
We should have a good ol fashioned witch hunt where everybody just submits names of anyone they want banned. Mob justice FTW.
|
I may have learned something reading this thread....Nah not really its all common sense beginning with the first post. Most of the opinions given had somewhat of a tick to it thou.
|
On January 03 2009 21:17 Kwark wrote:
Go read gg.net if you think tl is doing it wrong. And then play in the carrier league and enjoy the Gosugamers Black tournament. And of course don't forget their wonderful forums.
Seriously, tl is doing nothing wrong by being strict. I'll put it in words you'll understand. Say you own a nightclub with a strict dresscode. That means you're turning away potential customers but the ones who do go there have a better experience because they're getting the quality they come for. If you drop the rules and make it a free for all you lose quality, alienate the regulars and ultimately lose customers long term.
On tl the dress code is good posting. This in turn creates an environment in which people want to contribute. Every single one of the Final Edits is worth more than the entire gg.net articles section. Our strategy forum is full of guides where people have devoted countless manhours to it.
You're being arrogant and you're wrong. And there is no postcount elitism here. If a guy has 5k posts I'll know who he is because I'll have seen them, and I'll either respect him or disrespect him based on what I've seen. Whereas if a guy has no posts then I'll not know who he is.
Gears is obviously a tard, but I think he has a point. Kwark, it's ridiculous to argue that there is no postcount elitism in TL. There is always a bias towards seniority in any social group, and TL in particular is no exception. Some of the posts by mods here even acknowledge that, like what Kennigit I think said about incontrol. I don't think there's a problem with rewarding senior posters, but I think it's a problem when that reward is "do whatever the fuck you want, how you want". If anything, the veteran posters should act as role models for the rest of the forum. As naive as that might sound, it's a fact that new posters, especially the younger crowd, look up to and imitate veterans. The amount of ass kissing that goes into a rekrul thread is enough to trigger my vomit reflex for example, but that's another story.
In general though, this policy of giving people like incontrol absolute leeway in posting however they like only generates resentment and gives people an excuse to imitate their idiocy. Don't get me wrong, I like the moderation policy here. For a gaming forum, TL posters can be remarkably intelligent, and it's only because people like mani have done a good job of weeding out the the crusty undergrowth is that possible. I just think you should be consistent with regards to how it's applied.
|
In the spirit of preserving (restoring?) the quality of TL.net I'd like to dedicate my 1000th post to HonestTea, the author of many a good thread (such as http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=61851) and to this date my my one big idol on these forums - although i rarely ever see him anymore.
I've been voicing my opinion on numerous occasions lately about the generally decreased quality of posting on these forums over the past few months and it absolutely delights me to see a thread like this, not only the initiative itself from Mani, but the amount of engagement from a lot of veteran members throughout the thread. It's good to see that people still care.
I wouldn't say I miss the old days of, in my opinion, semi-reckless wielding of the banhammer (I love you Rekrul, but you're a man with a short fuse), but it'd be good to see some stricter moderating at least for an extended period of time henceforth.
Chill said a while ago that he'd be coming down harder on bad threads in the strategy forum and I think there's been a visible difference, but that's unfortuantely the only section that's been up to standards lately. It's not like anyone expects Tourney-threads to stop being orgies of one-liners, but it'd be nice if we could keep other sections from becoming the same
Here's to constructive posting and helping each other around the TL-house! 
A fine New Year's resolution in my opinion.
|
On January 04 2009 07:21 Luddite wrote:Show nested quote +On January 04 2009 05:25 AdamBanks wrote:
Ugh another one of these purges. These things do little to improve the quality of posting here rather it just turns into finger pointing, name calling and then temp bans. Its good that you are trying to improve post quality, but your method (or lack thereof) has not the effects you desire and quiet possibily detracts from the quality of disscussion on the forum. We should have a good ol fashioned witch hunt where everybody just submits names of anyone they want banned. Mob justice FTW.
wanna bet the first nominee is someone whose name starts with 'r' and has seven letters
|
You guys are like the soup nazi.
|
I will not be banned without a good reason before I've had my last my word, after I post this you can go ahead and ban me again and I'll gladly wait until the ban effect wears off.
OH GOD TRANSMITTION JARBLED ASIOPDHAPSIHBDAPSBD. Get the fuck out love kennigit.
|
martyr's aren't supposed to come back to life though
|
Hong Kong20321 Posts
lol gearitup trying to rally other angry 'nerdlings' behind him .lol ok whatever man!
a good example of how not to post i would say...
|
On January 04 2009 07:51 ahrara_ wrote:Show nested quote +On January 04 2009 07:21 Luddite wrote:On January 04 2009 05:25 AdamBanks wrote:
Ugh another one of these purges. These things do little to improve the quality of posting here rather it just turns into finger pointing, name calling and then temp bans. Its good that you are trying to improve post quality, but your method (or lack thereof) has not the effects you desire and quiet possibily detracts from the quality of disscussion on the forum. We should have a good ol fashioned witch hunt where everybody just submits names of anyone they want banned. Mob justice FTW. wanna bet the first nominee is someone whose name starts with 'r' and has seven letters
Damn this one's hard, I still can't figure it out 
|
United States42022 Posts
Arrogant isn't an insult, it's a description in your case. Fortunately your stupidity in insisting on having the last word means you'll be gone. Good riddance.
|
United States42022 Posts
On January 04 2009 09:28 ShaLLoW[baY] wrote:Show nested quote +On January 04 2009 07:51 ahrara_ wrote:On January 04 2009 07:21 Luddite wrote:On January 04 2009 05:25 AdamBanks wrote:
Ugh another one of these purges. These things do little to improve the quality of posting here rather it just turns into finger pointing, name calling and then temp bans. Its good that you are trying to improve post quality, but your method (or lack thereof) has not the effects you desire and quiet possibily detracts from the quality of disscussion on the forum. We should have a good ol fashioned witch hunt where everybody just submits names of anyone they want banned. Mob justice FTW. wanna bet the first nominee is someone whose name starts with 'r' and has seven letters Damn this one's hard, I still can't figure it out
raithed
|
On January 04 2009 09:31 Kwark wrote:Show nested quote +On January 04 2009 09:28 ShaLLoW[baY] wrote:On January 04 2009 07:51 ahrara_ wrote:On January 04 2009 07:21 Luddite wrote:On January 04 2009 05:25 AdamBanks wrote:
Ugh another one of these purges. These things do little to improve the quality of posting here rather it just turns into finger pointing, name calling and then temp bans. Its good that you are trying to improve post quality, but your method (or lack thereof) has not the effects you desire and quiet possibily detracts from the quality of disscussion on the forum. We should have a good ol fashioned witch hunt where everybody just submits names of anyone they want banned. Mob justice FTW. wanna bet the first nominee is someone whose name starts with 'r' and has seven letters Damn this one's hard, I still can't figure it out raithed
Oh touché
|
On January 04 2009 09:22 mahnini wrote:
martyr's aren't supposed to come back to life though
LMAO!!! The ban is for a week(at least until they see your new account GearitUP2 and your respose) and was made by Kennigit. Pretty much he said quit while your ahead and learn respect. Anyways, forum cleaning is always a good thing. I don't really start threads because it would probably be low quality. Xd Gogo Manifesto!
|
this really means a lot to you doesn't it?
|
I must say GearitUP2 is right :S
|
On January 04 2009 09:20 GearitUP2 wrote:
I was banned due to your big ego and little dick, you can dish out everything in the world but as soon as a couple people (albeit these low-post-counts infidels) favor my side and dont think your correct, look what happens... people get banned for no reason what so ever.
Actually, you were banned because you were a terrible poster.
On January 04 2009 09:20 GearitUP2 wrote:
Respect is earned not given freely. See you when my ban is done xD. How long is that by the way?
Forever, now that you used a second account to dodge your ban.
On January 04 2009 09:20 GearitUP2 wrote:I wasn't given a PM as to why I was banned... I wasn't given a PM as to how long the ban is for?
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=32696
On January 04 2009 09:20 GearitUP2 wrote:
Oh well thanks for throwing around the ban hammer and proving my point, I feel like such a Martyr
I'm glad you're enjoying your permaban too.
|
United States42022 Posts
I think some mod is smurfing here to make the point about bad posting. GearitUP has been a better example of what not to do than any idiot could do by themselves. My faith in humanity forces me to hope he's not serious.
|
What it boils down to is shitty posters don't end up with 1000+ posts. If they have that many posts, it's for a reason. Members like incontrol or IdrA can be incendiary from time to time but they're damn valuable posters. Funny guys, good posters, and they contribute a lot. So of course they get a bit of wiggle room.
I mean, look at Manifesto's analogy. When you have very few posts don't go blazing into a topic calling a mod/admin/high post count user an asshole/dickhead/idiot, unless you want to be kicked out. You're a guest in their home, but if you're polite and contribute before long you might just be more than a guest.
"Now you said I should respect the rules given to me? I have, Havent broken one yet. I was banned due to your big ego and little dick, you can dish out everything in the world but as soon as a couple people (albeit these low-post-counts infidels) favor my side and dont think your correct, look what happens... people get banned for no reason what so ever. So really check your own arrogant attitude not mine
Respect is earned not given freely. See you when my ban is done xD. How long is that by the way? I wasn't given a PM as to why I was banned... I wasn't given a PM as to how long the ban is for? Oh well thanks for throwing around the ban hammer and proving my point, I feel like such a Martyr"
saying bullshit like this is stupid. It's obvious he knows he's an idiot and is trying to make up for it by making RaGe look bad, when he's contributed more to this site than this prick ever will. You did break the rules, you acted like a douchebag without having contributed anything.
People are just butthurt that they don't get as much attention/credit as high post count users, well obviously they don't. They shouldn't. If you want the respect stick around, and contribute. No one thinks you're cool because you can TANGO WITH THE BIG BOYS.
|
On January 04 2009 09:49 Kwark wrote:
I think some mod is smurfing here to make the point about bad posting. GearitUP has been a better example of what not to do than any idiot could do by themselves. My faith in humanity forces me to hope he's not serious.
I've seen him in OP IRC @ bnet west, I don't think he is a smurf.
Edit@GearitUP: Rage didn't ban you, Rage doesn't even have the ability to ban people. He is staff not a mod.
|
The problem is that we have too much quantity, not enough quality.
Ever since the IRC channel launched, there's been a steady trickle of people who post 1-liners constantly. Like they think the forum threads are an IRC channel, and that any inane comment that pops into their head should be immortalized in a zero-effort forum post.
And often times these IRC-style posters will break the conversation by having 1-on-1 chat in the midst of topic: "passive derailments" are out of control.
|
On January 04 2009 09:20 GearitUP2 wrote:
Now you said I should respect the rules given to me? I have, Havent broken one yet. I was banned due to your big ego and little dick, you can dish out everything in the world but as soon as a couple people (albeit these low-post-counts infidels) favor my side and dont think your correct, look what happens... people get banned for no reason what so ever. So really check your own arrogant attitude not mine
Respect is earned not given freely. See you when my ban is done xD. How long is that by the way? I wasn't given a PM as to why I was banned... I wasn't given a PM as to how long the ban is for? Oh well thanks for throwing around the ban hammer and proving my point, I feel like such a Martyr
"haven't broken one yet"??
quote from the 6ht of the TL 10 commandment
+ Show Spoiler +6. THOU SHALL RESPECT FORUM VETERANS
All other things being equal, we will give preferential treatment to site members who have been with us longer (as reflected in their post count + length of time with us as a registered member). It's a simple recognition of the quality of these people. Longevity and contribution are prized commodities around here. In a similiar vein, "known" pro/semi-pro players will also be treated with deference (yes, quite a few hang out here). Don't complain - these guys have earned it.
Remember: we ban little girly-kids all the time because they sign on thinking they can say and do whatever they want to whomever they want right from the get-go - just like they're used to doing at other sites. That attitude won't work here. That's a promise. As far as new users are concerned (i.e. anyone with less than 500 or so quality posts to their name), this site is Holy Ground. The veterans are the users who've consistently shown respect to the site and to others and that's why they're still here. Show them some respect.
In practice, this policy means a user who has 1000+ posts may be able to get away with a few minor transgressions in etiquette with just a warning. If you're at 50 posts and you try the same kind of stunt, then we may just ban you. Harsh? Yes. Unfair? Most definitely. But that's the way life is. Learn to live with it.
This also means you should think twice before calling that guy with 5000+ posts a jackass. If the guy's been with us that long, chances are YOU'RE the one being an idiot. Some battles are just not worth fighting - just move on.
like you said respect is earned, you earned your respect by calling people "big ego and little dick"? fucking hypocrite.
|
I don't know how someone can lurk for years and still not have the slightest clue how TL works.
|
@gearitup, no one is making you stay. TL is a private website, they can run it however they feel like.
No one wants to listen to you QQ. TL has created the best starcraft forum community by quickly weeding out the idiots for the greater good of the community.
People respect older members because if you have been with the site for 5+ years without incident chances are your posts are worhtwhile. Obviously it doesn't always work this way, but like I said you kinda gotta deal with it or leave.
|
On January 04 2009 10:13 HeadBangaa wrote:
The problem is that we have too much quantity, not enough quality.
Ever since the IRC channel launched, there's been a steady trickle of people who post 1-liners constantly. Like they think the forum threads are an IRC channel, and that any inane comment that pops into their head should be immortalized in a zero-effort forum post.
And often times these IRC-style posters will break the conversation by having 1-on-1 chat in the midst of topic: "passive derailments" are out of control.
Great point...good thing im never in the IRC.
On January 04 2009 10:29 SonuvBob wrote:
I don't know how someone can lurk for years and still not have the slightest clue how TL works.
I lurked for a year...This post might lead to something...
|
People with many posts have done a lot more for this site than I ever will be able to. Sometimes you just gotta do what you can and see what happens. Earn respect don't expect it.
TL is a rare breed of forum. Please keep the quality up. I will do what I can to improve my posting and attempt to contribute in some way =)
|
I don't even know how to get on the IRC. Is that where all the people go during LR threads? I've been missing out. =\
|
CA10824 Posts
On January 04 2009 11:08 Avidkeystamper wrote:
I don't even know how to get on the IRC. Is that where all the people go during LR threads? I've been missing out. =\
you aren't really missing out on too much, except for on rare occasions. it's a good place to be for semis/finals and TL-related streams though.
|
|
|
On January 04 2009 06:00 RaGe wrote:
The small advantages that we give to veteran users are advantages they earned. And while sometimes it may be a bit unfair, I often get the feeling that a lot of previously permbanned users and warned/tempbanned users use it as an excuse. "If I had more posts I wouldn't have been banned for that." or "There are forum regulars that post worse than me." are the worst excuses I personally can imagine for bad posting behaviour.
"Other people post worse than me" may be a lousy excuse, but I'd be willing to bet it's a common motivator. Most vets are mannered and polite, but there are those who aren't, and they do set a bad example. I feel like there's a kind of catch-22 going on here: there are people who have contributed a lot in the past, and continue to contribute, and for this reason they can get away with a lot while still being respected withinin the community. But it's easy to see this from the outside and think that they're respected because they flame or trash talk. And then you get people thinking that the way to be a respected member is by starting arguments and causing drama, and then when they get banned they feel like there's a double standard.
I doubt anyone is actually thinking "oh shit I need to be more of a forum badass and flame lots of people," but I think the power of bad examples, combined with the respect that everyone has for long-standing members, does have an effect on the way people post.
Note that I'm not attributing the majority of lousy posts to ill-mannered forum vets (and they are a rare breed) --- I suspect most bad posts are just the result of not thinking.
|
On January 04 2009 10:29 SonuvBob wrote:
I don't know how someone can lurk for years and still not have the slightest clue how TL works.
A huge set of blinders, and heavy duty sunglasses.
As for how the forum is run?
I guess i classify as a "veteran" member now as I've been here since 2004, and somehow have over 1500 posts. I to my knowledge have never been warned, nor have I been banned. Have I posted some questionable things in the past, most definitely. The thing with TL is it is a community that started with a very small, close knit group for that group. It grew from there, becoming the huge community site for starcraft that it is today. Through its creation, the veteran members have me eachother(as well as some of the lurkers and newer members), given an outlet for people to express ideas and speak their mind, and provided people with the ability to play a game they love with countless people of skill.
But to maintain the quality of the site, moderators have to find the balance, be it warning people, closing threads, or bans. By keeping the forum a clean place, it maintains the credibility of the site, the community, and most importantly the principles on which the site was created.
Before people think to bash on mods, or forum vets, remember that they are the lifeblood that has kept the community going for all this time. Remember, without us, TL would not be the place it is today, or it possibly might not have continued to exist.
|
On January 04 2009 07:49 GinNtoniC wrote:In the spirit of preserving (restoring?) the quality of TL.net I'd like to dedicate my 1000th post to HonestTea, the author of many a good thread (such as http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=61851) and to this date my my one big idol on these forums - although i rarely ever see him anymore.
HonestTea's busy texting Chauncey Billups to come back to the Pistons. You can catch some nuggets of his wisdom in the NBA thread ^^
I do agree that the post quality does bother me sometimes, but the mods do a fairly good job of regulating it. To the low post count people, just do a little research before you hit post and you'll be fine. I'm pretty new and I haven't had a problem as long as I think before I post. I find most problems are either due to misinformation / ignorance or flamers / trolls, which can be remedied with a bit of caution and research.
|
errr
before you all bash IRC, im sure it was here MUCH LONGER than any of you realize. I've been in the IRC channel for a good number of years, and certainly not when it just started(that is to say its been around longer than even I know). I would have a very hard time believing there's any causation on behalf of the IRC channel. It has gotten worse at the same pace the forums have.
|
thedeadhaji
39489 Posts
I remember the irc channel was literally dead in early 2006
|
Okay, I rescind my comment about the forum vets becoming douchebags - I think I've got it straight now. Douchebags are becoming forum vets.
|
thedeadhaji
39489 Posts
^
hahaha actually I can't disagree with that.
|
The flamethrower missed you by [-------] this much, Zerg_Russian. =p
I'm relatively new to the community. Honestly, I take so much more than I contribute. Not that I don't have my opinions, but more like someone shares my opinion and has already said it. What am I to do? quote and say "+1"?
I'm actually in favour of this seniority thing cuz it allows for much more chracter in posts. If everyone was newbie like myself (when can i get a new icon T_T), then posts would all be super safe... and people with massive reputations like incontrol wouldn't exist... and THAT would lower the quality of the forum.
|
|
|
On January 04 2009 16:03 deathgod6 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 04 2009 15:43 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote:
Okay, I rescind my comment about the forum vets becoming douchebags - I think I've got it straight now. Douchebags are becoming forum vets. I'm not following your logic...  Sometimes I disagree with what a forum vet says or does, but you still have to show respect for their views and contributions. They put a lot of EffOrt (pun intended for Hot_Bid and CJ lovers) into maintaining this site. I feel bad that GearitUP had to go down that route and keep badmouthing the veterans. And to think he was going to host a LAN for us at Norcal with some of our beloved vets like haji, AttackZerg, SpiritoftheTUNA, and others. Now that I look back at that Norcal Lan thread, it was almost as if Mani predicted GearitUP to be banned, with him giving the last words saying how he wasn't surprised that it couldn't work out.  Speaking of Mani, lol at JeeJee's pic of the easy button. Reminded me of the video showing you giving Savior that as a present and telling him to use it as his ceremony. That was easy. XD
Okay, so what if you knew I used to have 2200+ posts here? Would your opinion of my opinion change any?
I dont' think you should let the status of the messenger alter the content of the message.
|
On January 04 2009 16:11 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote:Show nested quote +On January 04 2009 16:03 deathgod6 wrote:On January 04 2009 15:43 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote:
Okay, I rescind my comment about the forum vets becoming douchebags - I think I've got it straight now. Douchebags are becoming forum vets. I'm not following your logic... Sometimes I disagree with what a forum vet says or does, but you still have to show respect for their views and contributions. They put a lot of EffOrt (pun intended for Hot_Bid and CJ lovers) into maintaining this site. I feel bad that GearitUP had to go down that route and keep badmouthing the veterans. And to think he was going to host a LAN for us at Norcal with some of our beloved vets like haji, AttackZerg, SpiritoftheTUNA, and others. Now that I look back at that Norcal Lan thread, it was almost as if Mani predicted GearitUP to be banned, with him giving the last words saying how he wasn't surprised that it couldn't work out. Speaking of Mani, lol at JeeJee's pic of the easy button. Reminded me of the video showing you giving Savior that as a present and telling him to use it as his ceremony. That was easy. XD Okay, so what if you knew I used to have 2200+ posts here? Would your opinion of my opinion change any? I dont' think you should let the status of the messenger alter the content of the message.
I'd probably wonder under what names you had those 2200 posts so i could remember if you were a shitty poster or not.
|
On January 04 2009 16:11 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote:Show nested quote +On January 04 2009 16:03 deathgod6 wrote:On January 04 2009 15:43 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote:
Okay, I rescind my comment about the forum vets becoming douchebags - I think I've got it straight now. Douchebags are becoming forum vets. I'm not following your logic... Sometimes I disagree with what a forum vet says or does, but you still have to show respect for their views and contributions. They put a lot of EffOrt (pun intended for Hot_Bid and CJ lovers) into maintaining this site. I feel bad that GearitUP had to go down that route and keep badmouthing the veterans. And to think he was going to host a LAN for us at Norcal with some of our beloved vets like haji, AttackZerg, SpiritoftheTUNA, and others. Now that I look back at that Norcal Lan thread, it was almost as if Mani predicted GearitUP to be banned, with him giving the last words saying how he wasn't surprised that it couldn't work out. Speaking of Mani, lol at JeeJee's pic of the easy button. Reminded me of the video showing you giving Savior that as a present and telling him to use it as his ceremony. That was easy. XD Okay, so what if you knew I used to have 2200+ posts here? Would your opinion of my opinion change any? I dont' think you should let the status of the messenger alter the content of the message.
if you used to have 2200+ posts then you obviously got banned for some reason right?
why would I assume you are a worthwhile poster
|
He was a pretty 5hitty poster in fact!
|
51342 Posts
On January 04 2009 17:19 SonuvBob wrote:
He was a pretty 5hitty poster in fact!
It was a combo breaker
|
On January 04 2009 16:11 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote:Show nested quote +On January 04 2009 16:03 deathgod6 wrote:On January 04 2009 15:43 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote:
Okay, I rescind my comment about the forum vets becoming douchebags - I think I've got it straight now. Douchebags are becoming forum vets. I'm not following your logic... Sometimes I disagree with what a forum vet says or does, but you still have to show respect for their views and contributions. They put a lot of EffOrt (pun intended for Hot_Bid and CJ lovers) into maintaining this site. I feel bad that GearitUP had to go down that route and keep badmouthing the veterans. And to think he was going to host a LAN for us at Norcal with some of our beloved vets like haji, AttackZerg, SpiritoftheTUNA, and others. Now that I look back at that Norcal Lan thread, it was almost as if Mani predicted GearitUP to be banned, with him giving the last words saying how he wasn't surprised that it couldn't work out. Speaking of Mani, lol at JeeJee's pic of the easy button. Reminded me of the video showing you giving Savior that as a present and telling him to use it as his ceremony. That was easy. XD Okay, so what if you knew I used to have 2200+ posts here? Would your opinion of my opinion change any? I dont' think you should let the status of the messenger alter the content of the message.
Ummm... If you had 2200+ posts, the content of my message still applies to your original post. You would still have to show respect.
|
Manifesto7 I think you would be a cool guy in real life. However, on this forum I've pretty much never liked anything you say and you come off as an uptight douche bag who takes himself too seriously. Take it easy man. Everyone else keep up the good work.
|
Oh ya and fakesteve shouldnt be a moderator he is a faggot. Nony as moderator is good. Back in the day I never liked him thought he was a faggot but lately he has come off as pretty cool.
|
On January 04 2009 07:51 ahrara_ wrote:Show nested quote +On January 04 2009 07:21 Luddite wrote:On January 04 2009 05:25 AdamBanks wrote:
Ugh another one of these purges. These things do little to improve the quality of posting here rather it just turns into finger pointing, name calling and then temp bans. Its good that you are trying to improve post quality, but your method (or lack thereof) has not the effects you desire and quiet possibily detracts from the quality of disscussion on the forum. We should have a good ol fashioned witch hunt where everybody just submits names of anyone they want banned. Mob justice FTW. wanna bet the first nominee is someone whose name starts with 'r' and has seven letters
I thought it was b and 9?
|
Lately i feel there is too much aggressive cynism around.
People try to rip apart topics with lame jokes or attack others in such a disrespectful fashion that i jump pages sometimes. Respect your fellow readers, and stop jumping on someone just because he might be wrong.
Next is how some people talk about some players / teams. Words like "retarded" and "faggot" used to describe a player are completely unnecessary. Be angry, be dissapointed but keep your shit togheter. It's so cumbersome to read these comments just because someone thinks he's lewis black. It's ok and great to have an opinion, but you're posting in a surrounding with lot's of small fanbases where people discuss styles, players and teams. It should be as much their little place to enjoy the game / scene as it is yours.
|
Hong Kong20321 Posts
On January 04 2009 20:12 lololol wrote:Show nested quote +On January 04 2009 07:51 ahrara_ wrote:On January 04 2009 07:21 Luddite wrote:On January 04 2009 05:25 AdamBanks wrote:
Ugh another one of these purges. These things do little to improve the quality of posting here rather it just turns into finger pointing, name calling and then temp bans. Its good that you are trying to improve post quality, but your method (or lack thereof) has not the effects you desire and quiet possibily detracts from the quality of disscussion on the forum. We should have a good ol fashioned witch hunt where everybody just submits names of anyone they want banned. Mob justice FTW. wanna bet the first nominee is someone whose name starts with 'r' and has seven letters I thought it was b and 9?
bulgarian?
|
rofl
I love the X17 style replies from dutch. Ridiculous.
|
I can hear you mods, but I can't see you.
|
Belgium9944 Posts
wow
I just described GearitUP as a person that can never concede an argument, even when a shitload of people disagree with him, and the only person agreeing is a 2 times previously banned user.
Then he does that shit lol.
|
On January 04 2009 17:42 GTR-2-Go wrote:Show nested quote +On January 04 2009 17:19 SonuvBob wrote:
He was a pretty 5hitty poster in fact! It was a combo breaker
I miss this forum =/.
|
Belgium9944 Posts
then you might wanna stop being a douche on every account you make
it looks like you never learn
|
i thought the last account ended in him swearing he would never come back
what happened to that
|
I've been a member of TL for almost exactly 5 years now (Joined 2004 Jan 03 it seems) and I have to agree that lately the general forum has tanked.
TL used to be a place I read at school or work when I wanted something fun to kill time with but nowdays I frequently pick other (poorer) sites. I don't necesarly think it's the new peoples fault because to me it seems more like a lack of content. The awsome old posters that used to make general forums such a fun place to read seems to post less, most new threads are boring and it's generally just not as good as it used to be.
Somethings missing and I'm not sure where it went.
Nowdays it seems like my primary use of TL is just looking up things in the other forums like yourneys or reading final edits or the Power rank or justing the database. Thats awsome too but it's not even near the same time killer as TL used to be.
Anyway only the view from an old lurker.
|
Valhalla18444 Posts
this thread isn't for gossip or pointing fingers
cease and desist. post about the content in the OP, or don't post.
|
Vatican City State491 Posts
Have you ever thought about more 'aggressive' moderation - e.g. deleting the useless posts?
I dont think that the thread pointed out by Manifesto is so clean that it should be considered a perfect thread. Of course few people have helped the OP, but few other people (e.g. 4th and 6th post) repeat what has already been said. What about the mods deleting such messages?
Of course this could be really hard to implement as it would discourage people from posting (and actually there are very few new posts and messages IMO), but I have seen few forum enforce such "nazi" policies and it stopped the useless one liners. Unfortunately it also stops the "thank yous".
Also another question - do you have any tools that allow you to know how many threads and posts were made per day? Perhaps you could track it to see if you are moving in the right or wrong direction. Personally I would try few no moderation weeks, as I feel that the site has less and less new topics and posts. I barely recognize any of the 1000 post people, as they seem to post only in the safe battle report threads.
|
I also think removing of unnecessary posts might be a good thing but i guess it would just be an overload of work to the moderators. Maybe tempbanning some notorious "thank you" posters would be a good way to handle this problem.
|
United States24582 Posts
I think you also want to avoid this place feeling like there is constantly a 'big brother'. This is supposed to be a community for enjoyment. Mods will act when they need to, but it's better when they don't have to.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT![[image loading]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v348/guxtav-/artofposting.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://img179.imageshack.us/img179/3220/steptwocs7.png)
![[image loading]](http://img301.imageshack.us/img301/7498/easybuttonoa1.th.jpg)
