On November 01 2008 02:23 soybomb wrote: "Just because you can vote between the puppet on the left and the puppet on the right doesn't mean shit."
The two corporate puppets are not your only options, obviously you wouldn't be voting for a winner if you did vote. Just because voting for McBama is a dumber option than not voting at all, doesn't mean that not voting is the best option out there for somebody who cares, which you might. Then again, not voting is the best option if you honestly don't give a shit.
Yes, it is finally close to the end, lol at 2 year elections, I hope the Obama supporters on this site are talking to people this weekend and getting them to vote. It is easy to be cynical, but I truly believe you have got a great leader in difficult times. Democracy is at its finest when you are not only voting against a person out of fear, but voting for a person that you feel can help make things better.
On November 01 2008 02:01 Jibba wrote: That man is an idiot and so are you. I briefly read through it and there's a fallacy in nearly everything he said, but quite frankly you're not worth the effort.
Voting isn't a right. It's a priviledge that your ancestors and founders had to buy with their blood for white men, women and blacks. It's something you should treasure. Just spouting the fashionable line that "it doesn't really make a difference" or "they're all the same anyway" is just a cop out.
news flash: you're a fucking idiot and so is that guy.
seeing as the the words "street boner" can be seen on the far right indicates that this site is far from being an intellectual oasis. i can't even believe you were stupid enough to post that garbage here. did you think you were going to blow our minds with this article written by some apathetic jag-off ? do everyone a favor and stop polluting this thread with your opinions.
On October 31 2008 12:17 Jibba wrote: In some sense, yes, however a reasonable level of education and healthcare should be staples of all modern societies. Poverty isn't going away, but there are basic humanitarian minimums that should be filled. Right now the minimum for healthcare is at low income children and for immunizations, and that's unacceptable. Our infant mortality rate is worse than the Isle of Man. WHAT THE FUCK IS THE ISLE OF MAN? Or even worse, GREECE.
Agree entirely. I should point out, however, that the Isle of Man is, to all intents and purposes, part of the United Kingdom. There is a slightly convoluted constitutional set-up but it is basically British.
On the healthcare issue, I think most Europeans are rather mystified as to how the richest country in the world, the only superpower, a country with such massive advantages, and a country with such an admirable can-do attitude, insists on a system that performs so poorly on the main health and welfare indicators.
However, I don't particularly want to get into a serious debates on the merits of different systems. It tends to elicit some rather hysterical responses from some people.
Comparing health systems is very difficult. For example, systems that were designed to provide nationlized access to every citizens will obviously look really good when one of the most key questions is about everyone's access to basic health care.
But it is harder to analyze the effect of increased availability of imaging equipment, increased access to specialists, and other such factors that the current US system has.
So I don't buy it at face value when some study shows the US "performing" below European standards.
I'm not actually arguing that the US system is better, but that the rankings you see online are not as accurate indicators and most people believe.
That pic includes only under 25. But you all know what the numbers have been like for the last 20-30 years or so.
Savio, you need to stop posting misleading shit statistics. Of course France has lower unemployement rates for those under 25. More French go to COLLEGE and don't work from ages 18-22. The French unemployment rate is 7.5% compared to the 6.1% in the United States. More French actually finish secondary school as well. The margin of the French population enrolled in the education system does more than account for the difference.
France's healthcare system was ranked #1 by WHO, they have a top notch education system, and they sport a drove of other statistics that make the United States look like a joke.
On November 02 2008 03:44 Savio wrote: Comparing health systems is very difficult. For example, systems that were designed to provide nationlized access to every citizens will obviously look really good when one of the most key questions is about everyone's access to basic health care.
But it is harder to analyze the effect of increased availability of imaging equipment, increased access to specialists, and other such factors that the current US system has.
So I don't buy it at face value when some study shows the US "performing" below European standards.
I'm not actually arguing that the US system is better, but that the rankings you see online are not as accurate indicators and most people believe.
Imaging is one of the most overused technologies in the United States Health care system. My girlfriend had an MRI done on her wrist for a small cyst shes had for 12 years. This would never be done in a country like France with a sensible health care system. The problem is these pieces of equipment are privately owned and doctors know the more scans they run the more money the can rip off insurance companies for.
The insurance buracracy is rediculous in the United States. The average administrative overhead for a health insurer is 15% compared to 3% with medicare. The reason for this difference is you don't have massive litigation, advertising, and claims management problems with national health care. A single payer system with a single drug list, single billing program works far better than the massive 1000 different methods the 1000 different insurance companies offer.
In France you are free to chose your own specialist, you own doctors etc...The myth that with a national health care system you can't choose your own doctor is rediculous. The average wait time it takes to get to see a specialist is 2-3 weeks in France which is the exact same average wait time in the United States. France has a longer life expectancy, lower infant mortality rates, and the spend far far less per citiczen.
On November 02 2008 03:44 Savio wrote: Comparing health systems is very difficult. For example, systems that were designed to provide nationlized access to every citizens will obviously look really good when one of the most key questions is about everyone's access to basic health care.
But it is harder to analyze the effect of increased availability of imaging equipment, increased access to specialists, and other such factors that the current US system has.
So I don't buy it at face value when some study shows the US "performing" below European standards.
I'm not actually arguing that the US system is better, but that the rankings you see online are not as accurate indicators and most people believe.
Infant mortality is one of the most significant health indicators and very easy to compare. According to the CIA Factbook the USA ranks below Greece, Ireland, Slovenia and a whole host of other nations, as well as significantly below the European Union average. According to the United Nations World Population Prospects report, for the period 2005-2010, the USA also ranks below Cuba. The figures are widely available. Of course the USA still has an impressive rate by international standards but it is food for thought.
On October 31 2008 12:17 Jibba wrote: In some sense, yes, however a reasonable level of education and healthcare should be staples of all modern societies. Poverty isn't going away, but there are basic humanitarian minimums that should be filled. Right now the minimum for healthcare is at low income children and for immunizations, and that's unacceptable. Our infant mortality rate is worse than the Isle of Man. WHAT THE FUCK IS THE ISLE OF MAN? Or even worse, GREECE.
Agree entirely. I should point out, however, that the Isle of Man is, to all intents and purposes, part of the United Kingdom. There is a slightly convoluted constitutional set-up but it is basically British.
Yeah, I looked it up on Wikipedia. ^^ I just pointed it out for its crazy name,
That pic includes only under 25. But you all know what the numbers have been like for the last 20-30 years or so.
Savio, you need to stop posting misleading shit statistics. Of course France has lower unemployement rates for those under 25. More French go to COLLEGE and don't work from ages 18-22. The French unemployment rate is 7.5% compared to the 6.1% in the United States. More French actually finish secondary school as well. The margin of the French population enrolled in the education system does more than account for the difference.
France's healthcare system was ranked #1 by WHO, they have a top notch education system, and they sport a drove of other statistics that make the United States look like a joke.
Before making criticizing posts, you need to at a MINIMUM, learn the definition of unemployment used by economists.
Again an example of what happens when someone who wasn't taught economic theory, tries to figure it out with their "misguided common sense".
EDIT: Another interesting graphic. This data is over a 3 year average:
And another one (this shows employment levels rather than unemployment. Blue is USA, red is EU-15):
And finally, ARod, here is the data year by year on overall unemployment. It includes the USA and France:
That pic includes only under 25. But you all know what the numbers have been like for the last 20-30 years or so.
Savio, you need to stop posting misleading shit statistics. Of course France has lower unemployement rates for those under 25. More French go to COLLEGE and don't work from ages 18-22. The French unemployment rate is 7.5% compared to the 6.1% in the United States. More French actually finish secondary school as well. The margin of the French population enrolled in the education system does more than account for the difference.
France's healthcare system was ranked #1 by WHO, they have a top notch education system, and they sport a drove of other statistics that make the United States look like a joke.
The margin of people enrolled in the education system does not account for the different at all, because they aren't included as unemployed.
EPT![[image loading]](http://static.flickr.com/43/113103195_aa114e1fa4.jpg?v=0)
![[image loading]](http://www.willisms.com/archives/leviathanattacksworkers.gif)
![[image loading]](http://www.princeton.edu/~pkrugman/eu_vs_us_jobs.jpg)
