On October 30 2008 11:22 MYM.Testie wrote: I'm scared to watch it incase it really doesn't inspire - inform me and is just fluff. Someone with more stones watch it >=[
It's just what you would expect. On an unrelated note, is it gay to want to suck Obama's penis? Cuz I'm not gay.
On October 30 2008 11:22 MYM.Testie wrote: I'm scared to watch it incase it really doesn't inspire - inform me and is just fluff. Someone with more stones watch it >=[
I watched it and enjoyed but all information it gives is already known, what is interesting is some fluffly comments about his life.
On October 30 2008 10:15 HnR)hT wrote: And if we are far-right, what does that make Russia - a country that does have a flat tax?
I don't know what that makes Russia, but the killing of journalists who criticize the government makes it pretty damn far to the right.
Just like USSR?
yes
To quote Karl Hess...
“Power, concentrated in few hands, is the dominant historic characteristic of what most people, in most times, have considered the political and economic right wing."
“The far left, as far as you can get away from the right, would logically represent the opposite tendency and, in fact, has done just that throughout history. The left has been the side of politics and economics that opposes the concentration of power and wealth and, instead, advocates and works toward the distribution of power into the maximum number of hands."
“The attitude on that farthest left toward law and order was summed up by an early French anarchist, Proudhon, who said that ‘order is the daughter of and not the mother of liberty.’ Let people be absolutely free, says this farthest of the far, far left (the left that Communism regularly denounces as too left; Lenin called it ‘infantile left’). "
I don't know about this guy, but my own personal view of left vs. right is a comparison of the size and role of government.
Anything that makes the government larger or more powerful is left and anything that makes it small is right.
So communism, socialism, liberalism, naziism--they all have a powerful state (I'm talking reality rather than the "theoretical ideal" which we have never and will never see").
As you go to the right, you have conservatism, then libertarianism and finally anarchy.
So America is farther to the right than Europe because by and large we have LESS government regulation, LESS government expenditures, LOWER taxes etc. Europe has a view of a more active role of government in the economy, health care, education, and everything else (these are generalities here--I'm not citing specific countries).
Now, this is not the definition that political scientists use, but this is how I view it.
I think Hitler was as far to the left as Stalin was and as far as Saddam was.
Neither extreme is good...but I am glad I am a "right thinker". We don't need more government controlling us.
EDIT: Didn't read the article, but first sentence from Wikipedia on "Right Wing Politics":
"In politics, right-wing, the political right, and the Right are positions that seek limited government and free markets."
Oh, and someone mentioned the government killing journalists that criticize them. According to my definition, that is an overreach of government power and therefore very "Left".
'I don't pay attention to Presidential polls, I count lawn signs to see who's winning. So far by my count our next President is going to be somebody named Mr. Foreclosure. Anyone heard of him?'
I think I hurt some tender feelings of those who want "Left" to sound like warmth and happiness and "Right" to sound like the screeching of train tracks.
Of course I already stated that this was my personal view rather than an independent fact so I don't have to defend it.
The danger comes when we try to label one party as consistently "right" or "left". The GOP according to this definition is actually more to the left than the dems on military spending since that expands the size of government.
I apologize to the "Leftists" who want to expand the size/power of government but still want the "Right" to be the side labeled as the dictators. I know you guys have tender feelings.
the left has an interesting relationship with government. the instrumental appreciation of government mechanisms is a pragmatic adaptation taken up not because of ideological affinity with the state, but for the achievement of social objectives seen as untenable in any other way. so to characterise the left as pro government is a mistake of historical innocence, and perhaps a testament to the dominance of the planning debate in economics between orthodox socialists and free marketers. there, the debate is one of government vs nongovernment, however, again, the problem of government is a pragmatic and instrumental one. the left's basic concern has always been framed in terms of social situations, whether it is emancipatory or welfare themed. insofar as workers in the social sciences are prompted to strive for normative evaluation, and keep an eye out for doing things better, i'd say the entire project could be called leftist by aspiration.
ironically, some of the most prominent critiques of bureaucracy have come from the left, and these feature concerns that would be understandable by the liberal right. for example, critical social theory's concern with instrumental reason as one defining feature of modernity draws heavily from the operation of bureaucratic government and the logics at work there. the appeal to liberty resonates with the left well. but of course, for someone who understands politics through caricatures, this does not matter.
Left: Rather "Open boarder", Govermentcontroll were it makes sense (electricity, trains - stuff like this) to assure that these things work, high wealth redistribution.
Obama and McCain are both Rightwing basically everywhere in the world except the USA...
On October 30 2008 13:59 Savio wrote: I don't know about this guy, but my own personal view of left vs. right is a comparison of the size and role of government.
Anything that makes the government larger or more powerful is left and anything that makes it small is right.
So communism, socialism, liberalism, naziism--they all have a powerful state (I'm talking reality rather than the "theoretical ideal" which we have never and will never see").
...
Now, this is not the definition that political scientists use, but this is how I view it.
I think Hitler was as far to the left as Stalin was and as far as Saddam was.
That's generally accurate. You're looking at "left" as a term to describe government control. But you've got to look at where the government control comes in.
A country can be left wing economically but ring wing socially i.e. it can give welfare benefits and so on but still not intrude on anyone's individual rights. Or it can be left wing socially (no abortion, tough drinking laws, outlaws gambling, claps political prisoners in jail without trial etc.) but right wing economically (it lets everyone make as much money as they like).
So two countries could be "left wing" because of the role of their government, but the bureaucracy could be worried about totally different things.
I just read that some Republicans think Palin shuld run for president next time. Now I know they're going to lose next time as well.
Palin has just been so lucky. If the Democrats didn't have so many things going for them that they feel they don't need to resort to mud-slinging, she and her family would probably have been driven close to suicide.
Everything would come out of the closet, like the amount of time she would have to concentrate on her duties with 5 children, one of whom is a special needs kid. Troopergate would get another airing. She'd be labelled a lousy mother since her daughter got pregnant. Her eloping with her husband wouldn't go down well either. By the time the election was over she wouldn't be able to lead a normal life again.
At the same time, the US bishops modified their election guidelines for 2008, presenting a moral framework but emphasizing individual responsibility for “prudent” decisionmaking. Calling abortion “an intrinsic evil” that must be opposed, they nevertheless left the door ajar to voting for a candidate who supports abortion rights. In “Forming Consciences for Faithful Citizenship,” the bishops write: “There may be times when a Catholic who rejects a candidate’s unacceptable position may decide to vote for that candidate for other morally grave reasons.” (They also highlighted fundamental concerns that include war and peace, poverty, healthcare, a living wage, and environmental stewardship.)
Despite this opening, the endorsement of Barack Obama by prominent Catholic Republican Douglas Kmiec, a constitutional law expert at Pepperdine University, came as a great surprise to Catholics. Professor Kmiec, a former legal adviser to Presidents Reagan and George H.W. Bush, has written a controversial book – “Can a Catholic Support Him?” – detailing his rationale for Senator Obama based on the Catholic tradition.
While disagreeing with the Democrat’s abortion-rights position, he sees the candidate as sharing the broader worldview of Catholic social teaching. Kmiec once worked on briefs seeking to overturn Roe v. Wade, but he argues that the commitment to programs that reduce abortions will be more effective than continuing to try to reverse Roe. Even if a reversal were achievable, it would only throw the decision back to the states and abortion would continue, he says.
“It’s an argument that will make sense to Catholics who are pragmatists,” says Father Reese.
The whole "Hitler was left wing" argument is a familiar one but rather lame, I think. It smacks of a refusal to engage seriously with the complexities of the historical and political reality and the various axes along which a person's political position may be assessed.
Often it is motivated by the desire to have all the bad guys in the other camp so that one's own political position is no longer associated with such monsters. In order to achieve this happy position one simply defines away the problem: the political right is all about freedom and small government, Hitler was a dictator, therefore Hitler cannot have been on the political right.
But anyone can play that kind of game and similar arguments can be offered about practically any political figure you care to name, including Stalin.
There are interesting and worthwhile debates to be had about how we understand and classify different political viewpoints. I just don't think this is one of them.