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United States22883 Posts
Choros, I'm done after this. It's blatantly clear you don't know what the fuck you're talking about, because structural realism is not a harsher form of classical realism. If you weren't a windbag and actually someone that studied political science, you would know this.
The US doesn't have to take the front role in anything. As we might see with Congo, somehow the Germans, French and Belgians feel some obligation to stopping the fighting, but it's still striking that they've done nothing in Sudan and it has NOTHING TO DO WITH US.
Where the fuck are you pulling this shit? China is pissy that we keep selling arms to Taiwain, but you know what they did when Russia invaded Georgia? They turned to the State dept. asking for reassurance that we would act if their borders were touched. If China was terrified us, they would've backed down at the Security Council meetings for Sudan. They won't because it helps their economy and with 1.4 billion buyers and makers, they know they don't have to worry about our military. And Russia isn't going to do shit. You're supposed to be the economy person, tell me what has happened to their economy over the past month. It has gotten fucked, and they're already starting to feel the public backlash from their military aggression.
Just in case more people don't understand what Choros is ranting about, he saw a Michael Moore style documentary that claims corporations are psychopaths, ignoring the actual nature of both corporations and the definitions of psychopaths because he essentially wants to say greed is the same thing as being a psychopath. I repeat, he got this all from a movie, just a step up from Zeitgeist, and now he thinks it's the greatest thing on earth.
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Interesting
I don't know the exact % of precints that have been counted, but something interesting to note
At least based on the current numbers, obama got about the same # of votes as george bush, but mccain got 4 million votes less than john kerry did
everyone made such a huge deal about how high voter turnout was, but really it almost seemed like all they did was manage to convince bush supports to stay home, and got people to vote for obama to come out
i was expecting a much larger disparity in total vote count than this
we'll see how it finishes up when all the votes are counted completely
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United States22883 Posts
Still only 64%. That's still not good. I'm curious which groups came up short, or if the population estimates are off. I have a feeling college students limp dicked us again.
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On November 05 2008 23:47 Jibba wrote:Still only 64%. That's still not good. I'm curious which groups came up short, or if the population estimates are off. I have a feeling college students limp dicked us again.
the highest turnout since 1908 is not good? wtf lol
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again, not all of votes were counted yet,and i was basis my numbers off of the yahoo political dashboard
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On November 05 2008 15:09 Hawk wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2008 15:03 IdrA wrote:On November 05 2008 14:57 ItchReliever wrote:On November 05 2008 14:55 IdrA wrote:On November 05 2008 14:50 ItchReliever wrote:On November 05 2008 14:00 IdrA wrote:
they have not endured slavery, their ancestors did
they did not accomplish anything to be proud of, obama did (barring those who directly, effectively helped him)
and racism will definitely still exist. just because a black guy is president you think all the red necks and idiots will change their minds? Many minorities feel proud that Obama won, feel that they as a people have achieved something, because they identify themselves as part of a group that, although it resides in America, has always been treated as though and has always felt as if it were not a part of the American nation. being the same color as someone who accomplished something does not give you reason to be proud if you contributed nothing to their success. i'm not debating whether this identification makes sense or not. but by your logic then it's idiotic to be proud of your country, the achievements of your family, your father, your sister, your favorite soccer team winning, etc. yes it is, why would you be proud of something you had nothing to do with? of course you can be happy about it, but if you had no part in something happening why would you be proud of it? its not like you accomplished or achieved anything by someone else being successful, whats to be proud of? we're proud that our country is finally at the point where we can elect a man of color-someone who still would have had to go to seperate school or drink from a special fountain half a century ago. unless youre an ass backwards bigot, then you absolutely should be proud that our country has reached the point where, on the whole, we can look past color and put a man in the highest postion in the land. you dont have to vote for him to be proud of that. how the fuck can't you grasp that
Mmm hmm.
/nods
And everyone at TL.Net should stop being proud of a sniveling, whiney, white kid's accomplishment of making it to Korea to play videogames. Given that you're in South Korea, and not North Korea, I assume they have the word 'democracy' in their english dictionaries. Give it a spin.
America selected the best candidate tonight, and they did it in spite of what many people felt America was. It's that whole judging by "content of [their] character" instead of skin color thing Martin Luther King Jr. was talking about. America, the nation that had segregated schools mere decades ago, judged this man not only on his character, but his qualifications, and saw him fit to lead. That's incredible progress.
America made that decision. As a whole. And they should be damned proud. As a whole.
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United States22883 Posts
On November 05 2008 17:07 Orome wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2008 16:29 Jibba wrote:
1% left and he's up 20,000.
Man, I lived in Indiana and I never thought that could happen.
Say what you want about all the flaws in our government, that fact that someone like Obama was able to rise through higher education and to rise from the bottom of the campaign list to become president speaks wonders about the opportunities granted in this country. It is absolutely not consistently enough given in its current state and our efforts to foster it are not acceptable, but it is there for the bright and dedicated to grab. There are those Bush's and the Kennedy's, but across the political spectrum you will find leaders and legislators who have risen up from humble beginnings to become outstanding individuals. Without trying to take anything away from Obama's remarkable path, that kind of opportunity should be for granted in any first world country. You don't have a monopoly in the world of granting your people the chance to make something of themselves.
Across the board I think you're right, we're probably worse than some other countries including your own, but I honestly don't think Obama would get elected anywhere else in 2008, and not because of race, but because he's young and started so far behind. The odds of him winning when he first started campaigning were incredibly low.
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United States22883 Posts
On November 05 2008 23:49 a-game wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2008 23:47 Jibba wrote:Still only 64%. That's still not good. I'm curious which groups came up short, or if the population estimates are off. I have a feeling college students limp dicked us again. the highest turnout since 1908 is not good? wtf lol
It's not a relative thing, it's still disappointing that we're nowhere near touching maximum turnout. Considering the massive amount of outreach that was conducted by the campaign, I was expecting above 70 and maybe near 80.
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It'd be interesting to see which groups were lacking in turnout.
1) The comatose
2) Convicts in hiding
3) Manbearpig
4) American videogame players living in Korea
5) The legally dead
In regards to number 1: GOTV, Muhfuckers. Wake those bitches up.
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apparently when they coutn the number of people who can vote, they just count everyone in the US that's over 18
so they count people that aren't citizens, convicted felons, and the mentally incompetent
it doesn't change the voter turnout % by that much, but up to 10% of the people in the country aren't actually allowed to vote
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Honest question:
So it looks like Stevens won his senate race in Alaska. Given his recent criminal convictions, that's pretty incredible. Only in Alaska, right? Anyways, what happens when he goes to jail? Does his resignation create a special election for his seat, or does the Governor appoint a 'fill-in' in the interim? And is there any doubt Palin would run in said election? Senator Palin? GTFO?!?!
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United States22883 Posts
In some states I think the governor can appoint a new senator, but I don't think that's the case in AK. I doubt she would do it either way, since governor is usually a better stepping stone.
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On November 06 2008 00:38 Flaccid wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2008 15:09 Hawk wrote:On November 05 2008 15:03 IdrA wrote:On November 05 2008 14:57 ItchReliever wrote:On November 05 2008 14:55 IdrA wrote:On November 05 2008 14:50 ItchReliever wrote:On November 05 2008 14:00 IdrA wrote:
they have not endured slavery, their ancestors did
they did not accomplish anything to be proud of, obama did (barring those who directly, effectively helped him)
and racism will definitely still exist. just because a black guy is president you think all the red necks and idiots will change their minds? Many minorities feel proud that Obama won, feel that they as a people have achieved something, because they identify themselves as part of a group that, although it resides in America, has always been treated as though and has always felt as if it were not a part of the American nation. being the same color as someone who accomplished something does not give you reason to be proud if you contributed nothing to their success. i'm not debating whether this identification makes sense or not. but by your logic then it's idiotic to be proud of your country, the achievements of your family, your father, your sister, your favorite soccer team winning, etc. yes it is, why would you be proud of something you had nothing to do with? of course you can be happy about it, but if you had no part in something happening why would you be proud of it? its not like you accomplished or achieved anything by someone else being successful, whats to be proud of? we're proud that our country is finally at the point where we can elect a man of color-someone who still would have had to go to seperate school or drink from a special fountain half a century ago. unless youre an ass backwards bigot, then you absolutely should be proud that our country has reached the point where, on the whole, we can look past color and put a man in the highest postion in the land. you dont have to vote for him to be proud of that. how the fuck can't you grasp that Mmm hmm. /nods And everyone at TL.Net should stop being proud of a sniveling, whiney, white kid's accomplishment of making it to Korea to play videogames. Given that you're in South Korea, and not North Korea, I assume they have the word 'democracy' in their english dictionaries. Give it a spin. America selected the best candidate tonight, and they did it in spite of what many people felt America was. It's that whole judging by "content of [their] character" instead of skin color thing Martin Luther King Jr. was talking about. America, the nation that had segregated schools mere decades ago, judged this man not only on his character, but his qualifications, and saw him fit to lead. That's incredible progress. America made that decision. As a whole. And they should be damned proud. As a whole.
ok people are just misusing the idea of pride
pride /praɪd/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [prahyd] Show IPA Pronunciation
noun, verb, prid⋅ed, prid⋅ing.
–noun 1. a high or inordinate opinion of one's own dignity, importance, merit, or superiority, whether as cherished in the mind or as displayed in bearing, conduct, etc.
do you really think anyone has gained a higher opinion of themselves because im in korea playing sc? im pretty sure they havent.
i suppose you can argue that voting for obama is something to be proud of, but i hardly see voting for the person you view as the best fit for the job as a credit to yourself or as any kind of accomplishment. and if you really believe that your one vote in millions is a meaningful contribution to him getting elected... well i guess i cant argue that.
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United States22883 Posts
For people in the US, what proposals were on your state's ballots?
Michigan passed legalization of medical marijuana 2:1, and new permits for stem cell research. 
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On November 06 2008 01:14 Jibba wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2008 17:07 Orome wrote:On November 05 2008 16:29 Jibba wrote:
1% left and he's up 20,000.
Man, I lived in Indiana and I never thought that could happen.
Say what you want about all the flaws in our government, that fact that someone like Obama was able to rise through higher education and to rise from the bottom of the campaign list to become president speaks wonders about the opportunities granted in this country. It is absolutely not consistently enough given in its current state and our efforts to foster it are not acceptable, but it is there for the bright and dedicated to grab. There are those Bush's and the Kennedy's, but across the political spectrum you will find leaders and legislators who have risen up from humble beginnings to become outstanding individuals. Without trying to take anything away from Obama's remarkable path, that kind of opportunity should be for granted in any first world country. You don't have a monopoly in the world of granting your people the chance to make something of themselves. Across the board I think you're right, we're probably worse than some other countries including your own, but I honestly don't think Obama would get elected anywhere else in 2008, and not because of race, but because he's young and started so far behind. The odds of him winning when he first started campaigning were incredibly low.
I think he would have been elected in a hell of a lot of places in the world. I will personally guarantee he would have won in canada
'this could only happen in america' is just a feel good mantra
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United States22883 Posts
On November 06 2008 02:23 fusionsdf wrote:Show nested quote +On November 06 2008 01:14 Jibba wrote:On November 05 2008 17:07 Orome wrote:On November 05 2008 16:29 Jibba wrote:
1% left and he's up 20,000.
Man, I lived in Indiana and I never thought that could happen.
Say what you want about all the flaws in our government, that fact that someone like Obama was able to rise through higher education and to rise from the bottom of the campaign list to become president speaks wonders about the opportunities granted in this country. It is absolutely not consistently enough given in its current state and our efforts to foster it are not acceptable, but it is there for the bright and dedicated to grab. There are those Bush's and the Kennedy's, but across the political spectrum you will find leaders and legislators who have risen up from humble beginnings to become outstanding individuals. Without trying to take anything away from Obama's remarkable path, that kind of opportunity should be for granted in any first world country. You don't have a monopoly in the world of granting your people the chance to make something of themselves. Across the board I think you're right, we're probably worse than some other countries including your own, but I honestly don't think Obama would get elected anywhere else in 2008, and not because of race, but because he's young and started so far behind. The odds of him winning when he first started campaigning were incredibly low. I think he would have been elected in a hell of a lot of places in the world. I will personally guarantee he would have won in canada 'this could only happen in america' is just a feel good mantra
I don't mean starting from the presidential election. He definitely would've. I mean from before the Iowa caucus, when he was 30% behind. I hate the melodrama and length of our elections, but the prospect just seems far fetched without them. It's not about the policies, I certainly didn't think he was the best candidate at that point.
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Valhalla18444 Posts
On November 06 2008 02:17 IdrA wrote:Show nested quote +On November 06 2008 00:38 Flaccid wrote:On November 05 2008 15:09 Hawk wrote:On November 05 2008 15:03 IdrA wrote:On November 05 2008 14:57 ItchReliever wrote:On November 05 2008 14:55 IdrA wrote:On November 05 2008 14:50 ItchReliever wrote:On November 05 2008 14:00 IdrA wrote:
they have not endured slavery, their ancestors did
they did not accomplish anything to be proud of, obama did (barring those who directly, effectively helped him)
and racism will definitely still exist. just because a black guy is president you think all the red necks and idiots will change their minds? Many minorities feel proud that Obama won, feel that they as a people have achieved something, because they identify themselves as part of a group that, although it resides in America, has always been treated as though and has always felt as if it were not a part of the American nation. being the same color as someone who accomplished something does not give you reason to be proud if you contributed nothing to their success. i'm not debating whether this identification makes sense or not. but by your logic then it's idiotic to be proud of your country, the achievements of your family, your father, your sister, your favorite soccer team winning, etc. yes it is, why would you be proud of something you had nothing to do with? of course you can be happy about it, but if you had no part in something happening why would you be proud of it? its not like you accomplished or achieved anything by someone else being successful, whats to be proud of? we're proud that our country is finally at the point where we can elect a man of color-someone who still would have had to go to seperate school or drink from a special fountain half a century ago. unless youre an ass backwards bigot, then you absolutely should be proud that our country has reached the point where, on the whole, we can look past color and put a man in the highest postion in the land. you dont have to vote for him to be proud of that. how the fuck can't you grasp that Mmm hmm. /nods And everyone at TL.Net should stop being proud of a sniveling, whiney, white kid's accomplishment of making it to Korea to play videogames. Given that you're in South Korea, and not North Korea, I assume they have the word 'democracy' in their english dictionaries. Give it a spin. America selected the best candidate tonight, and they did it in spite of what many people felt America was. It's that whole judging by "content of [their] character" instead of skin color thing Martin Luther King Jr. was talking about. America, the nation that had segregated schools mere decades ago, judged this man not only on his character, but his qualifications, and saw him fit to lead. That's incredible progress. America made that decision. As a whole. And they should be damned proud. As a whole. ok people are just misusing the idea of pride pride /praɪd/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [prahyd] Show IPA Pronunciation noun, verb, prid⋅ed, prid⋅ing. –noun 1. a high or inordinate opinion of one's own dignity, importance, merit, or superiority, whether as cherished in the mind or as displayed in bearing, conduct, etc. do you really think anyone has gained a higher opinion of themselves because im in korea playing sc? im pretty sure they havent. i suppose you can argue that voting for obama is something to be proud of, but i hardly see voting for the person you view as the best fit for the job as a credit to yourself or as any kind of accomplishment. and if you really believe that your one vote in millions is a meaningful contribution to him getting elected... well i guess i cant argue that.
actually you are misusing the idea of pride
you dont necessarily have to be proud of yourself. its like being proud of your kid for making the right decision in a situation you could have no way prepared him for
"pride" and "proud" dont mean precisely the same thing in different contexts (this is one of those contexts)
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On November 06 2008 02:19 Jibba wrote:For people in the US, what proposals were on your state's ballots? Michigan passed legalization of medical marijuana 2:1, and new permits for stem cell research.
MA decriminalized possession of marijunana in small quantities, voted to keep the income tax, and to ban dog racing
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On November 06 2008 02:28 Jibba wrote:Show nested quote +On November 06 2008 02:23 fusionsdf wrote:On November 06 2008 01:14 Jibba wrote:On November 05 2008 17:07 Orome wrote:On November 05 2008 16:29 Jibba wrote:
1% left and he's up 20,000.
Man, I lived in Indiana and I never thought that could happen.
Say what you want about all the flaws in our government, that fact that someone like Obama was able to rise through higher education and to rise from the bottom of the campaign list to become president speaks wonders about the opportunities granted in this country. It is absolutely not consistently enough given in its current state and our efforts to foster it are not acceptable, but it is there for the bright and dedicated to grab. There are those Bush's and the Kennedy's, but across the political spectrum you will find leaders and legislators who have risen up from humble beginnings to become outstanding individuals. Without trying to take anything away from Obama's remarkable path, that kind of opportunity should be for granted in any first world country. You don't have a monopoly in the world of granting your people the chance to make something of themselves. Across the board I think you're right, we're probably worse than some other countries including your own, but I honestly don't think Obama would get elected anywhere else in 2008, and not because of race, but because he's young and started so far behind. The odds of him winning when he first started campaigning were incredibly low. I think he would have been elected in a hell of a lot of places in the world. I will personally guarantee he would have won in canada 'this could only happen in america' is just a feel good mantra I don't mean starting from the presidential election. He definitely would've. I mean from before the Iowa caucus, when he was 30% behind. I hate the melodrama and length of our elections, but the prospect just seems far fetched without them. It's not about the policies, I certainly didn't think he was the best candidate at that point.
My point is though that marketing and name recognition dont play quite the same role. And even though the actual election is short, the leadership race within the party provides quite a bit of time for a candidate to become familiar.
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EPT
