|
NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets.
Your supporting statement should always come BEFORE you provide the source. |
On April 11 2026 02:44 Nebuchad wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2026 02:14 zeo wrote:On April 10 2026 03:07 Nebuchad wrote:
Finaaaaally zeo is back what took you so long
The last time you talked about exchanges of bodies, I registered the amount of confirmed dead russian soldiers that mediazona had logged on their site. It was 168142. Today that number is 206202. On the one hand, we have a figure confirmed by both sides. And on the other a number from a media source run by Pussy Riot and funded by the British Foreign Office. We can say with quite a bit of certainty that the number of dead Russians is between 613 and 206202 though. We absolutely cannot say that, no. Every single one of those 206202, as far as I know, comes with an obituary published somewhere in Russia, usually on social media, so the source is clearly delineated. Unless you think Pussy Riot created 206202 media accounts to mourn fake deaths, that's not a powerful response at all. Also keep in mind that this methodology of counting deaths is by definition an undercount, so the thing that we can say for sure is that more than 206202 Russians have died, most likely quite a lot more.
Have you been to Mediazonas website? You can check for yourself (the full list) here: https://200.zona.media/
While they do link to archives of social media posts or whatever can be taken as a valid source in general a good 20% of the people on there just have '“own data (photo / from readers)” and Mediazona asks us to take their word for it. These people cannot be found online and cannot be traced to have ever existed, could some of them really exist? Sure, but in the vast majority of cases they cannot be found.
If you take the ones with the source 'confirmed in a state register' the numbers go up to 30-40% without any evidence of which state register and what that means exactly.
Even if they did pump it up with 75k names... saying roughly 130-140k KIA is probably legit
|
On April 11 2026 03:50 zeo wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2026 02:44 Nebuchad wrote:On April 11 2026 02:14 zeo wrote:On April 10 2026 03:07 Nebuchad wrote:
Finaaaaally zeo is back what took you so long
The last time you talked about exchanges of bodies, I registered the amount of confirmed dead russian soldiers that mediazona had logged on their site. It was 168142. Today that number is 206202. On the one hand, we have a figure confirmed by both sides. And on the other a number from a media source run by Pussy Riot and funded by the British Foreign Office. We can say with quite a bit of certainty that the number of dead Russians is between 613 and 206202 though. We absolutely cannot say that, no. Every single one of those 206202, as far as I know, comes with an obituary published somewhere in Russia, usually on social media, so the source is clearly delineated. Unless you think Pussy Riot created 206202 media accounts to mourn fake deaths, that's not a powerful response at all. Also keep in mind that this methodology of counting deaths is by definition an undercount, so the thing that we can say for sure is that more than 206202 Russians have died, most likely quite a lot more. Have you been to Mediazonas website? You can check for yourself (the full list) here: https://200.zona.media/While they do link to archives of social media posts or whatever can be taken as a valid source in general a good 20% of the people on there just have '“own data (photo / from readers)” and Mediazona asks us to take their word for it. These people cannot be found online and cannot be traced to have ever existed, could some of them really exist? Sure, but in the vast majority of cases they cannot be found. If you take the ones with the source 'confirmed in a state register' the numbers go up to 30-40% without any evidence of which state register and what that means exactly. Even if they did pump it up with 75k names... saying roughly 130-140k KIA is probably legit
What is your methodology for removing 75k names?
|
On April 11 2026 03:50 zeo wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2026 02:44 Nebuchad wrote:On April 11 2026 02:14 zeo wrote:On April 10 2026 03:07 Nebuchad wrote:
Finaaaaally zeo is back what took you so long
The last time you talked about exchanges of bodies, I registered the amount of confirmed dead russian soldiers that mediazona had logged on their site. It was 168142. Today that number is 206202. On the one hand, we have a figure confirmed by both sides. And on the other a number from a media source run by Pussy Riot and funded by the British Foreign Office. We can say with quite a bit of certainty that the number of dead Russians is between 613 and 206202 though. We absolutely cannot say that, no. Every single one of those 206202, as far as I know, comes with an obituary published somewhere in Russia, usually on social media, so the source is clearly delineated. Unless you think Pussy Riot created 206202 media accounts to mourn fake deaths, that's not a powerful response at all. Also keep in mind that this methodology of counting deaths is by definition an undercount, so the thing that we can say for sure is that more than 206202 Russians have died, most likely quite a lot more. Have you been to Mediazonas website? You can check for yourself (the full list) here: https://200.zona.media/While they do link to archives of social media posts or whatever can be taken as a valid source in general a good 20% of the people on there just have '“own data (photo / from readers)” and Mediazona asks us to take their word for it. These people cannot be found online and cannot be traced to have ever existed, could some of them really exist? Sure, but in the vast majority of cases they cannot be found. If you take the ones with the source 'confirmed in a state register' the numbers go up to 30-40% without any evidence of which state register and what that means exactly. Even if they did pump it up with 75k names... saying roughly 130-140k KIA is probably legit
You're not really providing an explanation as to why people would call Mediazona and tell them about all those fake dead people. What does that accomplish? In order to distrust this I would need a reason to. We can agree that they aren't as clear cut as an obituary if you want, but certainly not that because of that fact it is sound to remove all of them like this. Chances are almost every single one of these people is actually dead, obviously.
"Which state register" well probably the one from the state that's listed in the death report, that would be my initial intuition.
Even if we grant you this, you wouldn't end up with 130-140k, as that number would be assuming that mediazona caught every single actual death in the entire war, which is unlikely. A lot of families don't publish obituaries (more than you think, I didn't really do the math but from eyeballing it it must be like 40% in my oblast), some people are not confirmed dead, and so on... You'd get to 200k while applying your rules very easily as well.
|
200k is the bottom number. That doesn't include DNR and LNR casualties (those were substantial) and a whole lot of people whose deaths are not mentioned in the sources they used (social media, Russian media, official documents, etc.).
Zeo simply starts with a conclusion and works his way backwards.
|
I had two minutes so I did work for no reason, I clicked on the map randomly until I found some dude with no link:
"Агичев Владимир Леонидович" from Tyumen, who is "confirmed dead by state registers". Had a bit of a google on him, he seems to be a real person here's a hidden vk profile https://vk.com/id125430769 that I got from something called remarka.city I don't know what that is, here's a post from his brother apparently that reported not having news from him anymore in may 2024 https://vk.com/wall-222136319_55044 , there were results on telegram as well... I see no good reason to state that this person is alive they're most likely dead for sure.
|
United States43904 Posts
We can also back into it. The Russian government tells us how many people it inducts into the armed forces and it tells us how many people are in the armed forces. We can back in to the outflows with fairly basic maths.
|
The most clear indicator how bad Russian army is doing is zeo's post frequency. Then the second indicator is what he is talking about.
Russia is being ridiculed, unable to defend its country. Zeo is therefore bring ridiculed not having understood the reality of the situation for years.
Usually dumb people will lack exactly the capacity to see how dumb they are. I'm not calling zeo dumb. Maybe I'm calling everyone else dumb. Y'all draw your own conclusions 🤣
|
United States43904 Posts
I miss that Chinese poster who tried to convince us that there would be a negotiated peace any day now and his evidence for that was the idea of the passage of time. Every day brings us twenty four hours closer to the peace.
|
On April 11 2026 02:14 zeo wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2026 01:07 pmp10 wrote:On April 10 2026 02:57 zeo wrote:
The new tally being 19.370 UKR bodies to 613, or 31.6 dead Ukrainian bodies to 1 Russian, an uptick in the amount of Russian bodies that can be attributed to the small counteroffensives launched by Kiev forces by the end of winter that have been mostly reversed by now.
That's interesting, but we know of at least 100k Russian KIAs over the last two years. This ratio would mean some 6 million Ukrainian men are now effectively dead or too badly wounded to serve. Given the demographics, you are saying that Ukraine has physically run out of men that are eligible to fight in the army. Either the Ukrainian frontline is now held by women and children or this methodology is badly flawed. Show nested quote +On April 10 2026 02:57 zeo wrote:
Of course, this tally of recovered bodies is not going to reflect exact total casualties, anyone trying to fallacy that strawman into being is purposefully being a moron. It is, however, a strong indicator of how things are going.
~~~~~~~~~~
With all this in account, it becomes clear what the relative count of enemy bodies signifies: victories in close combat. The side that possesses the greater number of bodies is the one that is more effectively overpowering enemy forces - this holds true for both offensive and defensive operations. If a defender is successfully repelling assaults and executing counterattacks, firmly maintaining their position and forcing the enemy to pay dearly for every inch gained, they too will accumulate a significant number of enemy bodies. Please read these parts again
I did and I don't see how they change anything, you simply can't 'strawman' away the logic imposed by data you are providing.
- You are showing a body exchange numbers that are lopsided in favor of Russia
- This imbalance has been on-going since 2024 and has even gotten worse
- So far that trend doesn't at all correspond to ground changes we can track in the war
If this data is at all relevant, then Ukraine is holding ground by sustain massive manpower losses which would now place it on the verge of collapse.
You can't say that this data matters but refuse to explain how Ukraine is holding on.
|
Must be the NATO supersoldiers.
|
On April 11 2026 03:56 Billyboy wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2026 03:50 zeo wrote:On April 11 2026 02:44 Nebuchad wrote:On April 11 2026 02:14 zeo wrote:On April 10 2026 03:07 Nebuchad wrote:
Finaaaaally zeo is back what took you so long
The last time you talked about exchanges of bodies, I registered the amount of confirmed dead russian soldiers that mediazona had logged on their site. It was 168142. Today that number is 206202. On the one hand, we have a figure confirmed by both sides. And on the other a number from a media source run by Pussy Riot and funded by the British Foreign Office. We can say with quite a bit of certainty that the number of dead Russians is between 613 and 206202 though. We absolutely cannot say that, no. Every single one of those 206202, as far as I know, comes with an obituary published somewhere in Russia, usually on social media, so the source is clearly delineated. Unless you think Pussy Riot created 206202 media accounts to mourn fake deaths, that's not a powerful response at all. Also keep in mind that this methodology of counting deaths is by definition an undercount, so the thing that we can say for sure is that more than 206202 Russians have died, most likely quite a lot more. Have you been to Mediazonas website? You can check for yourself (the full list) here: https://200.zona.media/While they do link to archives of social media posts or whatever can be taken as a valid source in general a good 20% of the people on there just have '“own data (photo / from readers)” and Mediazona asks us to take their word for it. These people cannot be found online and cannot be traced to have ever existed, could some of them really exist? Sure, but in the vast majority of cases they cannot be found. If you take the ones with the source 'confirmed in a state register' the numbers go up to 30-40% without any evidence of which state register and what that means exactly. Even if they did pump it up with 75k names... saying roughly 130-140k KIA is probably legit What is your methodology for removing 75k names?
The same methodology they used to add them
On April 11 2026 04:14 Nebuchad wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2026 03:50 zeo wrote:On April 11 2026 02:44 Nebuchad wrote:On April 11 2026 02:14 zeo wrote:On April 10 2026 03:07 Nebuchad wrote:
Finaaaaally zeo is back what took you so long
The last time you talked about exchanges of bodies, I registered the amount of confirmed dead russian soldiers that mediazona had logged on their site. It was 168142. Today that number is 206202. On the one hand, we have a figure confirmed by both sides. And on the other a number from a media source run by Pussy Riot and funded by the British Foreign Office. We can say with quite a bit of certainty that the number of dead Russians is between 613 and 206202 though. We absolutely cannot say that, no. Every single one of those 206202, as far as I know, comes with an obituary published somewhere in Russia, usually on social media, so the source is clearly delineated. Unless you think Pussy Riot created 206202 media accounts to mourn fake deaths, that's not a powerful response at all. Also keep in mind that this methodology of counting deaths is by definition an undercount, so the thing that we can say for sure is that more than 206202 Russians have died, most likely quite a lot more. Have you been to Mediazonas website? You can check for yourself (the full list) here: https://200.zona.media/While they do link to archives of social media posts or whatever can be taken as a valid source in general a good 20% of the people on there just have '“own data (photo / from readers)” and Mediazona asks us to take their word for it. These people cannot be found online and cannot be traced to have ever existed, could some of them really exist? Sure, but in the vast majority of cases they cannot be found. If you take the ones with the source 'confirmed in a state register' the numbers go up to 30-40% without any evidence of which state register and what that means exactly. Even if they did pump it up with 75k names... saying roughly 130-140k KIA is probably legit You're not really providing an explanation as to why people would call Mediazona and tell them about all those fake dead people. What does that accomplish?
Why would someone just lie on the internet? What does lying accomplish? An outlet funded by foreign governments lying for the benefit of those same foreign governments for monetary gain? What a thought
On April 11 2026 04:28 Nebuchad wrote:I had two minutes so I did work for no reason, I clicked on the map randomly until I found some dude with no link: "Агичев Владимир Леонидович" from Tyumen, who is "confirmed dead by state registers". Had a bit of a google on him, he seems to be a real person here's a hidden vk profile https://vk.com/id125430769 that I got from something called remarka.city I don't know what that is, here's a post from his brother apparently that reported not having news from him anymore in may 2024 https://vk.com/wall-222136319_55044 , there were results on telegram as well... I see no good reason to state that this person is alive they're most likely dead for sure.
The profile you linked is just a name and surname with no picture. There are 50 profiles on Facebook with the same name and surname as me, and 50 more bot profiles with no pictures.
You're second link is the only other place he shows up, an anonymous posting board that someone went missing in 2024. Do we know if the guy himself contacted them straight away after that? Someone born 1991 with no presence on the internet besides two selfies in war?
Apparently all a bot farm worker needs to do is create a private profile with no picture and anon post that guy went missing and hey presto thats a +1. There are actual people that lead actual lives that have died in the war and their friends and families don't leave the only post about him on the internet with 0 likes and 4 shares. With the shares going to pro-UKR bot pages tallying deaths.
You do see the problem here?
On April 11 2026 11:54 0x64 wrote:
The most clear indicator how bad Russian army is doing is zeo's post frequency. Then the second indicator is what he is talking about.
Haven't gotten around to posting on the Flat-Earth forum in some time, damn, that must mean the Earth is flat. If only I had known that the truth was in direct correlation with the amount of posts per day the Earth would still be round 
On April 11 2026 15:18 pmp10 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2026 02:14 zeo wrote:On April 11 2026 01:07 pmp10 wrote:On April 10 2026 02:57 zeo wrote:
The new tally being 19.370 UKR bodies to 613, or 31.6 dead Ukrainian bodies to 1 Russian, an uptick in the amount of Russian bodies that can be attributed to the small counteroffensives launched by Kiev forces by the end of winter that have been mostly reversed by now.
That's interesting, but we know of at least 100k Russian KIAs over the last two years. This ratio would mean some 6 million Ukrainian men are now effectively dead or too badly wounded to serve. Given the demographics, you are saying that Ukraine has physically run out of men that are eligible to fight in the army. Either the Ukrainian frontline is now held by women and children or this methodology is badly flawed. On April 10 2026 02:57 zeo wrote:
Of course, this tally of recovered bodies is not going to reflect exact total casualties, anyone trying to fallacy that strawman into being is purposefully being a moron. It is, however, a strong indicator of how things are going.
~~~~~~~~~~
With all this in account, it becomes clear what the relative count of enemy bodies signifies: victories in close combat. The side that possesses the greater number of bodies is the one that is more effectively overpowering enemy forces - this holds true for both offensive and defensive operations. If a defender is successfully repelling assaults and executing counterattacks, firmly maintaining their position and forcing the enemy to pay dearly for every inch gained, they too will accumulate a significant number of enemy bodies. Please read these parts again I did and I don't see how they change anything, you simply can't 'strawman' away the logic imposed by data you are providing. - You are showing a body exchange numbers that are lopsided in favor of Russia
- This imbalance has been on-going since 2024 and has even gotten worse
- So far that trend doesn't at all correspond to ground changes we can track in the war
If this data is at all relevant, then Ukraine is holding ground by sustain massive manpower losses which would now place it on the verge of collapse. You can't say that this data matters but refuse to explain how Ukraine is holding on.
Here is the monthly body exchange graph from the last page:
![[image loading]](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/HFensP8bQAAiDNV?format=jpg&name=medium)
And here is the amount of territory changing hands since late 2023
![[image loading]](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/HFYu-w7XsAM2e6R?format=jpg&name=large)
Reminder/reference:
February 2024 fall of Avdeevka
August 2024 was the start of the UKR incursion into Sudzha
Late 2024 Ugledar is captured
Early 2025 South Donetsk offensive Russians capture Velyka Novosilka
June 2025 was when the Russians handed over 6000 bodies at once, the Sudzha pocket collapsed March 2025 for reference and they seem to have a constant surplus of bodies since then..
|
On April 11 2026 06:27 KwarK wrote:
We can also back into it. The Russian government tells us how many people it inducts into the armed forces and it tells us how many people are in the armed forces. We can back in to the outflows with fairly basic maths.
Ah but we were specifically speaking of deaths.
Outflows include at least 5 major categories:
1. Heavy injuries that makes it easier to discharge them
2. Killed people
3. Discharged (due to bribing your way out or similar)
4. Killed as an example when trying to desert or refusing orders
5. Successfully deserting
The ratio between 1 and 2 is the important one for killed in action. Early in the war you had more 1 than 2. Now some argue that we have more 2 than 1. Which would make it a good indicator. Calculate flow sizes and do 50% as killed in action?
|
On April 11 2026 18:07 zeo wrote:
Why would someone just lie on the internet? What does lying accomplish? An outlet funded by foreign governments lying for the benefit of those same foreign governments for monetary gain? What a thought
What's the monetary gain? Why would someone pay you to make up a dead Russian? It doesn't accomplish anything at all, so there's no reason why people would pay you to lie about it. This is why you had to go to a sarcastic "People wouldn't lie on the internet" instead of providing a reason: because you can't come up with a good one. When people lie on the internet, they usually have a reason to do that, yes.
On April 11 2026 18:07 zeo wrote:
The profile you linked is just a name and surname with no picture. There are 50 profiles on Facebook with the same name and surname as me, and 50 more bot profiles with no pictures.
As already explained, I got that link through something called remarka.city, where there were details that matched the specific soldier in the death report, and that site linked this as his profile. I don't know how that site works, maybe it's nonsense, but they're definitely linking that profile to the person we're talking about. There was also a picture of a kid who, I assume, is supposed to be him, but I wasn't able to source that.
On April 11 2026 18:07 zeo wrote:
You're second link is the only other place he shows up, an anonymous posting board that someone went missing in 2024. Do we know if the guy himself contacted them straight away after that? Someone born 1991 with no presence on the internet besides two selfies in war?
You're playing both sides here: there are many people with the same name, so we can't say that x or y is the right guy... but also this is the only post that is connected to him. Well, no, if he exists, that's probably not the case, probably some of the results with the name are also him. It's just that he didn't bother making it clear that it's him because he didn't foresee that in the future some serbian guy would deny his existence.
|
On April 11 2026 18:07 zeo wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2026 03:56 Billyboy wrote:On April 11 2026 03:50 zeo wrote:On April 11 2026 02:44 Nebuchad wrote:On April 11 2026 02:14 zeo wrote:On April 10 2026 03:07 Nebuchad wrote:
Finaaaaally zeo is back what took you so long
The last time you talked about exchanges of bodies, I registered the amount of confirmed dead russian soldiers that mediazona had logged on their site. It was 168142. Today that number is 206202. On the one hand, we have a figure confirmed by both sides. And on the other a number from a media source run by Pussy Riot and funded by the British Foreign Office. We can say with quite a bit of certainty that the number of dead Russians is between 613 and 206202 though. We absolutely cannot say that, no. Every single one of those 206202, as far as I know, comes with an obituary published somewhere in Russia, usually on social media, so the source is clearly delineated. Unless you think Pussy Riot created 206202 media accounts to mourn fake deaths, that's not a powerful response at all. Also keep in mind that this methodology of counting deaths is by definition an undercount, so the thing that we can say for sure is that more than 206202 Russians have died, most likely quite a lot more. Have you been to Mediazonas website? You can check for yourself (the full list) here: https://200.zona.media/While they do link to archives of social media posts or whatever can be taken as a valid source in general a good 20% of the people on there just have '“own data (photo / from readers)” and Mediazona asks us to take their word for it. These people cannot be found online and cannot be traced to have ever existed, could some of them really exist? Sure, but in the vast majority of cases they cannot be found. If you take the ones with the source 'confirmed in a state register' the numbers go up to 30-40% without any evidence of which state register and what that means exactly. Even if they did pump it up with 75k names... saying roughly 130-140k KIA is probably legit What is your methodology for removing 75k names? The same methodology they used to add them
Can you an example of showing this person still alive by posting on social media, let alone 75k of them? Because that would be the same methodology.
What you did was pick a random large number that just happens to fit your world view, for no reason other than confirmation bias.
|
On April 11 2026 22:28 Nebuchad wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2026 18:07 zeo wrote:
Why would someone just lie on the internet? What does lying accomplish? An outlet funded by foreign governments lying for the benefit of those same foreign governments for monetary gain? What a thought What's the monetary gain? Why would someone pay you to make up a dead Russian? It doesn't accomplish anything at all, so there's no reason why people would pay you to lie about it. This is why you had to go to a sarcastic "People wouldn't lie on the internet" instead of providing a reason: because you can't come up with a good one. When people lie on the internet, they usually have a reason to do that, yes.
Its literally propaganda bro, how is this a foreign concept? Someone gives you a stack of money to tell people what the person giving you the stack wants you to tell them. If people paying you decide your job is the narrative 'xyz dead on the other team' that's your job but you arn't the only one in the chain:
One source they are financing aimed at morons says millions are dead to get the idiots hyped because and idiot doesn't need any more evidence than 'it came to me in a dream'.
Another source (the same people are financing) says one million casualties, again, based on nothing other than vibes. This is aimed at the biased crowd that aren't complete idiots but are still biased to their core and only listen to what makes them feel good. One million makes them feel good and they can tell themselves they are being more realistic because they didn't fall for the millions.
And the last source (still financed by the same people) takes a 'methodical only 100% legit counting' route. They actually have a methodology and openly discus how they go about things and at least offer some semblance of legitimacy. This source is aimed at people that actually have a functioning brain and expect the bare minimum to believe something.
What happens is this last source gets labeled 'minimum amount of losses because its legit' and when things arn't going so well for team blue and its 10x less than the previous 'middle of the road source', they get the phone call. *ring ring* HEY, WHAT THE FUCK IS GOING ON HERE. IF YOU WANT TO EAT NEXT MONTH THOSE NUMBERS BETTER BE 30-40% HIGHER THE NEXT TIME I LOOK - OR YOU'RE FUCKED *hangs up*
So there you have it. Why someone would pay you to make up a dead Russian.
On April 11 2026 23:35 Billyboy wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2026 18:07 zeo wrote:On April 11 2026 03:56 Billyboy wrote:On April 11 2026 03:50 zeo wrote:On April 11 2026 02:44 Nebuchad wrote:On April 11 2026 02:14 zeo wrote:On April 10 2026 03:07 Nebuchad wrote:
Finaaaaally zeo is back what took you so long
The last time you talked about exchanges of bodies, I registered the amount of confirmed dead russian soldiers that mediazona had logged on their site. It was 168142. Today that number is 206202. On the one hand, we have a figure confirmed by both sides. And on the other a number from a media source run by Pussy Riot and funded by the British Foreign Office. We can say with quite a bit of certainty that the number of dead Russians is between 613 and 206202 though. We absolutely cannot say that, no. Every single one of those 206202, as far as I know, comes with an obituary published somewhere in Russia, usually on social media, so the source is clearly delineated. Unless you think Pussy Riot created 206202 media accounts to mourn fake deaths, that's not a powerful response at all. Also keep in mind that this methodology of counting deaths is by definition an undercount, so the thing that we can say for sure is that more than 206202 Russians have died, most likely quite a lot more. Have you been to Mediazonas website? You can check for yourself (the full list) here: https://200.zona.media/While they do link to archives of social media posts or whatever can be taken as a valid source in general a good 20% of the people on there just have '“own data (photo / from readers)” and Mediazona asks us to take their word for it. These people cannot be found online and cannot be traced to have ever existed, could some of them really exist? Sure, but in the vast majority of cases they cannot be found. If you take the ones with the source 'confirmed in a state register' the numbers go up to 30-40% without any evidence of which state register and what that means exactly. Even if they did pump it up with 75k names... saying roughly 130-140k KIA is probably legit What is your methodology for removing 75k names? The same methodology they used to add them Can you an example of showing this person still alive by posting on social media, let alone 75k of them? Because that would be the same methodology. What you did was pick a random large number that just happens to fit your world view, for no reason other than confirmation bias.
How can anyone show an example of a person existing if they don't exist? The point is not to use people that exist because thats easier to debunk
|
Casualties are kinda secondary to the fact one's holding and the other is marching in.
Not putting ICBMs in countries bordering to Russia would definitely be the prerequisite for them not flipping out. Gotta compromise unless the war is wanted.
|
On April 12 2026 00:27 zeo wrote:
Its literally propaganda bro, how is this a foreign concept? Someone gives you a stack of money to tell people what the person giving you the stack wants you to tell them. If people paying you decide your job is the narrative 'xyz dead on the other team' that's your job but you arn't the only one in the chain:
One source they are financing aimed at morons says millions are dead to get the idiots hyped because and idiot doesn't need any more evidence than 'it came to me in a dream'.
Another source (the same people are financing) says one million casualties, again, based on nothing other than vibes. This is aimed at the biased crowd that aren't complete idiots but are still biased to their core and only listen to what makes them feel good. One million makes them feel good and they can tell themselves they are being more realistic because they didn't fall for the millions.
And the last source (still financed by the same people) takes a 'methodical only 100% legit counting' route. They actually have a methodology and openly discus how they go about things and at least offer some semblance of legitimacy. This source is aimed at people that actually have a functioning brain and expect the bare minimum to believe something.
What happens is this last source gets labeled 'minimum amount of losses because its legit' and when things arn't going so well for team blue and its 10x less than the previous 'middle of the road source', they get the phone call. *ring ring* HEY, WHAT THE FUCK IS GOING ON HERE. IF YOU WANT TO EAT NEXT MONTH THOSE NUMBERS BETTER BE 30-40% HIGHER THE NEXT TIME I LOOK - OR YOU'RE FUCKED *hangs up*
So there you have it. Why someone would pay you to make up a dead Russian.
There's very little in this that answers the question, you're mostly describing a method in which it would happen, which is not what I asked. In terms of the reason why it happens, there's only one sentence in that whole thing: "when things arn't going so well for team blue and its 10x less than the previous 'middle of the road source', they get the phone call". You don't go any deeper than that at all. You should though, because that still doesn't make any sense. Why is it that when things aren't going too well for your team, it's important to have more names in that list of legit counted deaths? That doesn't have any impact on how things are going on the ground, does it.
It's also worth it to point out your methodology, and how there's no consistency to it. Mediazona counts a death, you're very skeptical. They have this and that as evidence, but it could be a fake, it could be a made up person, it could be a conspiracy, you need more to believe any of it. You apply a very strict standard of evidence. Now we go into what you believe to be true, and suddenly all of that care goes away. You have zero evidence that any of these people are made up, but you're ready to start an argument with that premise. You have zero evidence that any of those secret calls to inflate the number of deaths in an evil way for no particular gain have happened, but you're ready to use those calls in your argument. That process is described as idealism: basically the mindset in which it is more important to defend the picture of reality that you have in your head than it is to have it fit actual reality.
|
On April 12 2026 00:47 Nebuchad wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2026 00:27 zeo wrote:
Its literally propaganda bro, how is this a foreign concept? Someone gives you a stack of money to tell people what the person giving you the stack wants you to tell them. If people paying you decide your job is the narrative 'xyz dead on the other team' that's your job but you arn't the only one in the chain:
One source they are financing aimed at morons says millions are dead to get the idiots hyped because and idiot doesn't need any more evidence than 'it came to me in a dream'.
Another source (the same people are financing) says one million casualties, again, based on nothing other than vibes. This is aimed at the biased crowd that aren't complete idiots but are still biased to their core and only listen to what makes them feel good. One million makes them feel good and they can tell themselves they are being more realistic because they didn't fall for the millions.
And the last source (still financed by the same people) takes a 'methodical only 100% legit counting' route. They actually have a methodology and openly discus how they go about things and at least offer some semblance of legitimacy. This source is aimed at people that actually have a functioning brain and expect the bare minimum to believe something.
What happens is this last source gets labeled 'minimum amount of losses because its legit' and when things arn't going so well for team blue and its 10x less than the previous 'middle of the road source', they get the phone call. *ring ring* HEY, WHAT THE FUCK IS GOING ON HERE. IF YOU WANT TO EAT NEXT MONTH THOSE NUMBERS BETTER BE 30-40% HIGHER THE NEXT TIME I LOOK - OR YOU'RE FUCKED *hangs up*
So there you have it. Why someone would pay you to make up a dead Russian. There's very little in this that answers the question, you're mostly describing a method in which it would happen, which is not what I asked. In terms of the reason why it happens, there's only one sentence in that whole thing: "when things arn't going so well for team blue and its 10x less than the previous 'middle of the road source', they get the phone call". You don't go any deeper than that at all. You should though, because that still doesn't make any sense. Why is it that when things aren't going too well for your team, it's important to have more names in that list of legit counted deaths? That doesn't have any impact on how things are going on the ground, does it.
Its... propaganda. Thats the whole point of propaganda. It doesn't have any impact on how things are going on the ground and its not meant for the people on the ground.
Propaganda is communication that is primarily used to influence or persuade an audience to further an agenda, which may not be objective and may be selectively presenting facts to encourage a particular synthesis or perception, or using loaded language to produce an emotional rather than a rational response to the information that is being presented.
It's also worth it to point out your methodology, and how there's no consistency to it. Mediazona counts a death, you're very skeptical. They have this and that as evidence, but it could be a fake, it could be a made up person, it could be a conspiracy, you need more to believe any of it. You apply a very strict standard of evidence. Now we go into what you believe to be true, and suddenly all of that care goes away. You have zero evidence that any of these people are made up, but you're ready to start an argument with that premise. You have zero evidence that any of those secret calls to inflate the number of deaths in an evil way for no particular gain have happened, but you're ready to use those calls in your argument. That process is described as idealism: basically the mindset in which it is more important to defend the picture of reality that you have in your head than it is to have it fit actual reality.
Mediazona counts a death with a link to how this death came to be counted, around 60-70% of posts <--- no issue
Mediazona counts a death with no source besides trust me, around 30-40% of posts <---- skeptical
Its not my strict standard of evidence, they have their own standards of evidence which are more than sufficient and they use it for 60-70% of their listings. They are not abiding by their own standards of evidence for 30-40% of their own results. Give me any field in science or research where 60-70% of results were researched, and 30-40% is 'yeah, we were told the data is like that, no we cannot tell you where the data is from'
You asked me why someone would lie, and I answered you. With an example. Do I have to provide court evidence on a hypothetical? If saying the statement 'weird stuff went on at Epstein Island' needed court convictions and hard evidence no one would be allowed to say anything. How else do you answer someone saying 'idk why anyone would have sex with children? You need to explain in great detail why someone would do that, what do they gain? And you can't just say they are pedos thats what they do'?
|
On April 12 2026 02:07 zeo wrote:
Its... propaganda. Thats the whole point of propaganda. It doesn't have any impact on how things are going on the ground and its not meant for the people on the ground.
Propaganda is communication that is primarily used to influence or persuade an audience to further an agenda, which may not be objective and may be selectively presenting facts to encourage a particular synthesis or perception, or using loaded language to produce an emotional rather than a rational response to the information that is being presented.
My dude, it literally explains the issue in your definition. Propaganda is communication that is primarily used to influence or persuade an audience to further an agenda. So when I ask you why they're doing this, you should explain the agenda, and the influence that the propaganda has on the agenda. You don't do propaganda because you think propaganda is fun, you do it for a reason, reason that you're not explaining.
Let's use the XY Einzelfall map as an example, it was a project that would put a little dot on a map of Germany every time a migrant did a crime and resulted in a map with lots of dots. Was it propaganda? Yes it was, there were a bunch of dots that linked to the same incident, there were dots where people weren't identified but were black so the map just assumed they were migrants because they weren't white, there were dots for arson when a cooking pot caught on fire in a refugee asylum, and so on. If you ask me why they did it, the answer isn't "Its... propaganda". The answer is: they want people to be more afraid of refugees as that fear makes people more xenophobic and/or racist, and a population that is more xenophobic/racist is more likely to vote for the far right, which was the goal of the creators of the map. See?
On April 12 2026 02:07 zeo wrote:
Mediazona counts a death with a link to how this death came to be counted, around 60-70% of posts <--- no issue
Mediazona counts a death with no source besides trust me, around 30-40% of posts <---- skeptical
Its not my strict standard of evidence, they have their own standards of evidence which are more than sufficient and they use it for 60-70% of their listings. They are not abiding by their own standards of evidence for 30-40% of their own results. Give me any field in science or research where 60-70% of results were researched, and 30-40% is 'yeah, we were told the data is like that, no we cannot tell you where the data is from'
No, this isn't true. They're telling you where the data is from, you're choosing to distrust their source in those 30-40% of cases. If they say the source is a state register and you discard that because you can't verify it by yourself, that's not the same thing as them not telling you where the data is from.
|
Mediazona is using factual data to propagandize against the war. Any factual reporting shows Russians the war isn't worth the cost and should be stopped. It is nice when accurate reporting serves the angle they publication wants to achieve.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
