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Russo-Ukrainian War Thread - Page 516

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NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets.

Your supporting statement should always come BEFORE you provide the source.
Mikau
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Netherlands1446 Posts
August 03 2023 09:24 GMT
#10301
On August 03 2023 15:50 zeo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 03 2023 15:36 Acrofales wrote:
On August 03 2023 15:32 zeo wrote:
On August 03 2023 01:37 maybenexttime wrote:
On August 02 2023 13:49 zeo wrote:
On August 02 2023 09:10 JimmiC wrote:
@zeo do you consider russias allies, Iran, North Korea and China to also be the good guys?

I consider them to not have anything to do with what happened in Ukraine. They wernt part of any of the agreements, they didn't give guarentees to anyone, they didn't violate the Budapest memorandum on the political freedom of Ukraine by funding and organizing a coup.

Looking at the World as 'good guys' and 'bad guys' is kind of the reason we are all in conflict today.

Also kind of dissapointed with the poor quality of one-liner shitposters on this page. You could have put a little more effort. Edit: Litterally just: No, u! A strawman. A tu quoque fallacy. Another strawman. Baby noises.

You keep bringing up this "coup". Care to explain how it's relevant to the war? Ukraine has had multiple internationally recognised elections since then. As a matter of fact, Russia recognised each one of them.

Past events have no implications on modern events. Everything can be explained in bullet points with absolutely no context. Nothing happened in Ukraines political landscape since 2014 that had any consequences whatsoever. Those guys running Maidan all being kicked out of pollitics because they ran the country into the ground even more than the last guys? Eleven opposition parties being banned by Zelensky? Non government linked media banned? Neo-Nazi footsoldiers that did the dirtywork overthrowing the previous government being given concetions, government positions and privilages?

Why take into account anything? Don't think about it.

On August 03 2023 06:08 maybenexttime wrote:
@Excludos

3rd OShB is former Azov. There are some neo-Nazis in the Ukrainian armed forces. That's true of any European/American military. Spx seems to think this is some sort of a revelation.

The difference is that the Ukrainian neo-Nazis, as repugnant their ideology may be, are risking their lives to protect innocent people. The Russian neo-Nazis, on the other hand, are in Ukraine to commit a genocide. I'll take Ukrainian neo-Nazis over Russian soldiers any day.

Reaching peak clown world here. Its like saying the bank robbers are protecting the innocent civilians inside the bank from the police that have surrounded them.

Only if the bankrobbers were actually sitting at home, and the police was indeed planning on raping and murdering the civilians in that home.

E: and in case you were wondering, in that case I would indeed be cheering for the bankrobbers.

We should petition to bring in flairs for this thread. One for the neo-nazi Hitler enjoyers and another for the rapist-genocider side


So you can have both?
Mikau
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Netherlands1446 Posts
August 03 2023 09:27 GMT
#10302
These Russian trolls only show up whenever things are going poorly for Russia, and now we have all 3 of the craziest ones posting here at the same time.

Does this mean we're about to hear about major breakthroughs from the Ukrainian counter offensive?
Excludos
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Norway8255 Posts
Last Edited: 2023-08-03 09:33:04
August 03 2023 09:31 GMT
#10303
On August 03 2023 18:27 Mikau wrote:
These Russian trolls only show up whenever things are going poorly for Russia, and now we have all 3 of the craziest ones posting here at the same time.

Does this mean we're about to hear about major breakthroughs from the Ukrainian counter offensive?


That would be amazing. Unfortunately, I don't think we're closing in on a front line collapse quite yet. Ukraine has certainly pushed hard and made progress, but they're only at the second of the 3-line defences yet.

Tho that said, Ukraine has been going hard on destroying ammunition, supplies and supply lines as well. It's really difficult to tell what kind of effect that will have and when. They certainly must be doing something right for Russia to become angry enough to go back on the grain deal and attack the grain silos meant for exports in 4 different location.
zeo
Profile Joined October 2009
Serbia6342 Posts
August 03 2023 10:31 GMT
#10304
On August 03 2023 18:27 Mikau wrote:
These Russian trolls only show up whenever things are going poorly for Russia, and now we have all 3 of the craziest ones posting here at the same time.

Does this mean we're about to hear about major breakthroughs from the Ukrainian counter offensive?

Tens of thousands of casualties, hundreds of pieces of equipment destroyed on camera and UA forces have barely made it halfway through the first screening area in one part of the front, kilometers away from the first major defensive line the Russians built up. Let alone the other parts of the South front. Titanic losses for population centers of 10 houses and a few fields.

Klesheevka and Rabotino are still under RU control and everyone wrote them off months ago when the numbers of Ukrainian troops and armor built up came out. With the use of cluster munitions personel losses among the AFU are even higher now. Just look at the lines since the offensive began two months ago, two full months and even longer for Artemovsk/Bahmut and nothing. The offensive failed a long time ago.

Wagner (Prigozhin) said after Bahmut that they would be back in action August 5th. Personally, speculation about whether anything will happen or not with that and Kharkov electric boogaloo 2.0 is more interesting than watching 20 new Lancet and fpv drone videos each day, or MRAPs and western tanks blowing up on mines.

Compare that to the 'it came to me in a dream' sources posted here about HIMARS strikes doing this and that with no evidance whatsoever. '10000 russians in one strike OMG, unnamed pro-RU Telegram channel reports, please click'
"No amount of evidence will ever persuade an idiot." - Mark Twain
Magic Powers
Profile Joined April 2012
Austria4478 Posts
August 03 2023 10:35 GMT
#10305
On August 03 2023 18:27 Mikau wrote:
These Russian trolls only show up whenever things are going poorly for Russia, and now we have all 3 of the craziest ones posting here at the same time.

Does this mean we're about to hear about major breakthroughs from the Ukrainian counter offensive?


Both sides are clearing vast areas and trying to hold/break many parts of the front all at once. Forces are getting tied up in many locations.
It's a volatile situation, but there are no clear signs of a major breakthrough. Something big could happen tomorrow, or it could take until next year. I think it's a good time to have some tea and wait.
If you want to do the right thing, 80% of your job is done if you don't do the wrong thing.
iFU.spx
Profile Joined April 2011
Russian Federation378 Posts
August 03 2023 10:59 GMT
#10306
On August 03 2023 18:14 Excludos wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 03 2023 09:57 iFU.spx wrote:
On August 03 2023 08:38 Falling wrote:
On August 03 2023 07:32 iFU.spx wrote:
On August 03 2023 06:20 Excludos wrote:
On August 03 2023 06:19 iFU.spx wrote:
On August 03 2023 06:08 maybenexttime wrote:
@Excludos

3rd OShB is former Azov. There are some neo-Nazis in the Ukrainian armed forces. That's true of any European/American military. Spx seems to think this is some sort of a revelation.

The difference is that the Ukrainian neo-Nazis, as repugnant their ideology may be, are risking their lives to protect innocent people. The Russian neo-Nazis, on the other hand, are in Ukraine to commit a genocide. I'll take Ukrainian neo-Nazis over Russian soldiers any day.


Indeed there is no revelation in this. Hotter, but still not deep enough.


A debate is not a guessing game of hot or cold. Grow up. If you have something to say, say it


We are not debating. You just shared a video you find interesting from your point of view, I noticed additional interesting thing in the video from my point of view. Sorry to say, but you started the guessing game with "oh i get it now" instead of asking for example "what do I find interesting about this guy".

Seems to me you were not volunteering information, but instead wanted people to 'find information'. And once we found that information you were interested in our thoughts. Apparently the information they found was not the information you were thinking about. Now given that this information does not seem quite so easily available and your attempts to get us to mind read has thus far confirmed that TL is not filled with clairvoyants, I guess I will bite...

What, Mr. iFU.spx did you find so very interesting a page and a half ago that you so badly wanted to hear our thoughts that you have kept us guessing?

...

Please.


Well, at least you tried.

The most interesting thing from the video for me was to read about the guy with such strange nickname Kolovrat (and this is actually his real name now, he was Alexey, but he changed). Since this youtube channel is pretty big and has a lot of links (even website for recruiting) it was not so hard to find info about him even if you don’t speak ru or ukr (bad try @Excludos). Turns out he is known russian neo nazi, who did bad things in his city in ru, was in jail, and had to left ru, because of fear of criminal prosecution again. He is not even ukranian, but found shelter in azov.


I still love that you tried to make me guess what you wanted to say, refused to say it after asking repeatedly (I did ask no less than 3 times), and then claim it was a "bad try" of me because I'm not clairvoyant. But hey, you still haven't shared a single source that actually backs up anything you're claiming here. And, I suspect, you're never going to. I love how smug you try to sound for someone who refuses to back up his incredibly vague statements with anything resembling sources, so anyone else could actually know wtf you are talking about without going through a game of hot and cold first.

Seeing as I didn't know who it was, couldn't find out who it was, the video had zero nazi propaganda in it, and the point of me sharing the video had nothing to do with Nazism, I think it's fair to say we are well well beyond just a digression here.

Maybe you could comment on some of the actual points I brought up instead? Or would that not fit into your "Ukraine are Nazis who deserves to be exterminated" ideology?


I never tried to make you guess what I wanted to say. I said what I wanted to say: the story of this guy is interesting. Then you tried to google it with intention "to entertain me" (not to educate yourself), not my fault that you couldn't find that information, don't blame me for your frustration. Then you started guessing with "oh nvm i get it now" and adding discussing with yourself your bad guessed point. You never asked me to elaborate on what I found interesting about this guy, like Failing did. You didn't try to find that information even after I mentioned the name of this guy.

To close this guessing game you started - here is the source where you can start to do your research telegra.ph/%D0%86ntervyu-z-b%D1%96jcem-3-SHR-1-SHB-3-OSHBr-04-30


sertas
Profile Joined April 2012
Sweden890 Posts
August 03 2023 11:24 GMT
#10307
It's a good sign all the russian trolls are spamming to start negotiations. That's a sign of weakness for sure. For every piece of equipment russia destroys, ukraine destroys 3x as much. Also if people remember the Kherson offensive took 5-6 months and the first 2-3 months was super slow progress. This is just the same slow grind again, slowly taking territory
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States23930 Posts
Last Edited: 2023-08-03 11:37:10
August 03 2023 11:33 GMT
#10308
On August 03 2023 18:14 Excludos wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 03 2023 09:57 iFU.spx wrote:
On August 03 2023 08:38 Falling wrote:
On August 03 2023 07:32 iFU.spx wrote:
On August 03 2023 06:20 Excludos wrote:
On August 03 2023 06:19 iFU.spx wrote:
On August 03 2023 06:08 maybenexttime wrote:
@Excludos

3rd OShB is former Azov. There are some neo-Nazis in the Ukrainian armed forces. That's true of any European/American military. Spx seems to think this is some sort of a revelation.

The difference is that the Ukrainian neo-Nazis, as repugnant their ideology may be, are risking their lives to protect innocent people. The Russian neo-Nazis, on the other hand, are in Ukraine to commit a genocide. I'll take Ukrainian neo-Nazis over Russian soldiers any day.


Indeed there is no revelation in this. Hotter, but still not deep enough.


A debate is not a guessing game of hot or cold. Grow up. If you have something to say, say it


We are not debating. You just shared a video you find interesting from your point of view, I noticed additional interesting thing in the video from my point of view. Sorry to say, but you started the guessing game with "oh i get it now" instead of asking for example "what do I find interesting about this guy".

Seems to me you were not volunteering information, but instead wanted people to 'find information'. And once we found that information you were interested in our thoughts. Apparently the information they found was not the information you were thinking about. Now given that this information does not seem quite so easily available and your attempts to get us to mind read has thus far confirmed that TL is not filled with clairvoyants, I guess I will bite...

What, Mr. iFU.spx did you find so very interesting a page and a half ago that you so badly wanted to hear our thoughts that you have kept us guessing?

...

Please.


Well, at least you tried.

The most interesting thing from the video for me was to read about the guy with such strange nickname Kolovrat (and this is actually his real name now, he was Alexey, but he changed). Since this youtube channel is pretty big and has a lot of links (even website for recruiting) it was not so hard to find info about him even if you don’t speak ru or ukr (bad try @Excludos). Turns out he is known russian neo nazi, who did bad things in his city in ru, was in jail, and had to left ru, because of fear of criminal prosecution again. He is not even ukranian, but found shelter in azov.

Seeing as I didn't know who it was, couldn't find out who it was, the video had zero nazi propaganda in it, and the point of me sharing the video had nothing to do with Nazism, I think it's fair to say we are well well beyond just a digression here.

It's a neo-nazi propaganda recruitment video that is a couple clicks from a call of duty inspired recruitment page for a known neo-nazi group. I don't think you intentionally shared it to help them recruit (though everyone seems fine giving nazis guns as long as they aim them at Russia first), but that's what it is.
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
Mikau
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Netherlands1446 Posts
August 03 2023 12:00 GMT
#10309
On August 03 2023 19:31 zeo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 03 2023 18:27 Mikau wrote:
These Russian trolls only show up whenever things are going poorly for Russia, and now we have all 3 of the craziest ones posting here at the same time.

Does this mean we're about to hear about major breakthroughs from the Ukrainian counter offensive?

Tens of thousands of casualties, hundreds of pieces of equipment destroyed on camera and UA forces have barely made it halfway through the first screening area in one part of the front, kilometers away from the first major defensive line the Russians built up. Let alone the other parts of the South front. Titanic losses for population centers of 10 houses and a few fields.

Klesheevka and Rabotino are still under RU control and everyone wrote them off months ago when the numbers of Ukrainian troops and armor built up came out. With the use of cluster munitions personel losses among the AFU are even higher now. Just look at the lines since the offensive began two months ago, two full months and even longer for Artemovsk/Bahmut and nothing. The offensive failed a long time ago.

Wagner (Prigozhin) said after Bahmut that they would be back in action August 5th. Personally, speculation about whether anything will happen or not with that and Kharkov electric boogaloo 2.0 is more interesting than watching 20 new Lancet and fpv drone videos each day, or MRAPs and western tanks blowing up on mines.

Compare that to the 'it came to me in a dream' sources posted here about HIMARS strikes doing this and that with no evidance whatsoever. '10000 russians in one strike OMG, unnamed pro-RU Telegram channel reports, please click'


That would probably carry more weight if it wasn't the same combination of bullshit Kremlin propaganda and misrepresentations as your other posts are.
Excludos
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Norway8255 Posts
Last Edited: 2023-08-03 12:04:16
August 03 2023 12:02 GMT
#10310
On August 03 2023 20:33 GreenHorizons wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 03 2023 18:14 Excludos wrote:
On August 03 2023 09:57 iFU.spx wrote:
On August 03 2023 08:38 Falling wrote:
On August 03 2023 07:32 iFU.spx wrote:
On August 03 2023 06:20 Excludos wrote:
On August 03 2023 06:19 iFU.spx wrote:
On August 03 2023 06:08 maybenexttime wrote:
@Excludos

3rd OShB is former Azov. There are some neo-Nazis in the Ukrainian armed forces. That's true of any European/American military. Spx seems to think this is some sort of a revelation.

The difference is that the Ukrainian neo-Nazis, as repugnant their ideology may be, are risking their lives to protect innocent people. The Russian neo-Nazis, on the other hand, are in Ukraine to commit a genocide. I'll take Ukrainian neo-Nazis over Russian soldiers any day.


Indeed there is no revelation in this. Hotter, but still not deep enough.


A debate is not a guessing game of hot or cold. Grow up. If you have something to say, say it


We are not debating. You just shared a video you find interesting from your point of view, I noticed additional interesting thing in the video from my point of view. Sorry to say, but you started the guessing game with "oh i get it now" instead of asking for example "what do I find interesting about this guy".

Seems to me you were not volunteering information, but instead wanted people to 'find information'. And once we found that information you were interested in our thoughts. Apparently the information they found was not the information you were thinking about. Now given that this information does not seem quite so easily available and your attempts to get us to mind read has thus far confirmed that TL is not filled with clairvoyants, I guess I will bite...

What, Mr. iFU.spx did you find so very interesting a page and a half ago that you so badly wanted to hear our thoughts that you have kept us guessing?

...

Please.


Well, at least you tried.

The most interesting thing from the video for me was to read about the guy with such strange nickname Kolovrat (and this is actually his real name now, he was Alexey, but he changed). Since this youtube channel is pretty big and has a lot of links (even website for recruiting) it was not so hard to find info about him even if you don’t speak ru or ukr (bad try @Excludos). Turns out he is known russian neo nazi, who did bad things in his city in ru, was in jail, and had to left ru, because of fear of criminal prosecution again. He is not even ukranian, but found shelter in azov.

Seeing as I didn't know who it was, couldn't find out who it was, the video had zero nazi propaganda in it, and the point of me sharing the video had nothing to do with Nazism, I think it's fair to say we are well well beyond just a digression here.

It's a neo-nazi propaganda recruitment video that is a couple clicks from a call of duty inspired recruitment page for a known neo-nazi group. I don't think you intentionally shared it to help them recruit (though everyone seems fine giving nazis guns as long as they aim them at Russia first), but that's what it is.


I did not, but way way more importantly; it doesn't matter. You claim the video is a neo-nazi propaganda recruitment video, which makes exactly zero sense. There is no mention or show any ideology in the video itself, it only shows the reality of war. If you take away the links buried in the description, absolutely no one would be able to link it to such.

The things I wanted to highlight with it (Which I specified in the post) has nothing to do with anything anyone has brought up.

But it's an cool way to derail a discussion I suppose. Good job on that. Can't have a discussion about the gritty realities of war, because someone might be a Nazi somewhere. Fml why do I engage with trolls?
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States23930 Posts
August 03 2023 12:18 GMT
#10311
On August 03 2023 21:02 Excludos wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 03 2023 20:33 GreenHorizons wrote:
On August 03 2023 18:14 Excludos wrote:
On August 03 2023 09:57 iFU.spx wrote:
On August 03 2023 08:38 Falling wrote:
On August 03 2023 07:32 iFU.spx wrote:
On August 03 2023 06:20 Excludos wrote:
On August 03 2023 06:19 iFU.spx wrote:
On August 03 2023 06:08 maybenexttime wrote:
@Excludos

3rd OShB is former Azov. There are some neo-Nazis in the Ukrainian armed forces. That's true of any European/American military. Spx seems to think this is some sort of a revelation.

The difference is that the Ukrainian neo-Nazis, as repugnant their ideology may be, are risking their lives to protect innocent people. The Russian neo-Nazis, on the other hand, are in Ukraine to commit a genocide. I'll take Ukrainian neo-Nazis over Russian soldiers any day.


Indeed there is no revelation in this. Hotter, but still not deep enough.


A debate is not a guessing game of hot or cold. Grow up. If you have something to say, say it


We are not debating. You just shared a video you find interesting from your point of view, I noticed additional interesting thing in the video from my point of view. Sorry to say, but you started the guessing game with "oh i get it now" instead of asking for example "what do I find interesting about this guy".

Seems to me you were not volunteering information, but instead wanted people to 'find information'. And once we found that information you were interested in our thoughts. Apparently the information they found was not the information you were thinking about. Now given that this information does not seem quite so easily available and your attempts to get us to mind read has thus far confirmed that TL is not filled with clairvoyants, I guess I will bite...

What, Mr. iFU.spx did you find so very interesting a page and a half ago that you so badly wanted to hear our thoughts that you have kept us guessing?

...

Please.


Well, at least you tried.

The most interesting thing from the video for me was to read about the guy with such strange nickname Kolovrat (and this is actually his real name now, he was Alexey, but he changed). Since this youtube channel is pretty big and has a lot of links (even website for recruiting) it was not so hard to find info about him even if you don’t speak ru or ukr (bad try @Excludos). Turns out he is known russian neo nazi, who did bad things in his city in ru, was in jail, and had to left ru, because of fear of criminal prosecution again. He is not even ukranian, but found shelter in azov.

Seeing as I didn't know who it was, couldn't find out who it was, the video had zero nazi propaganda in it, and the point of me sharing the video had nothing to do with Nazism, I think it's fair to say we are well well beyond just a digression here.

It's a neo-nazi propaganda recruitment video that is a couple clicks from a call of duty inspired recruitment page for a known neo-nazi group. I don't think you intentionally shared it to help them recruit (though everyone seems fine giving nazis guns as long as they aim them at Russia first), but that's what it is.


I did not, but way way more importantly; it doesn't matter. You claim the video is a neo-nazi propaganda recruitment video, which makes exactly zero sense. There is no mention or show any ideology in the video itself, it only shows the reality of war. The things I wanted to highlight with it (Which I specified in the post) has nothing to do with anything anyone has brought up.

But it's an cool way to derail a discussion I suppose. Good job on that

It literally leads to a recruitment page for a known neo-nazi group. Whether it mentions the prominent ideology of the group or not is a style choice. It does make it easier to spread, for what should be pretty apparent reasons now. Maybe next time be a bit more thoughtful of your source for a video like that, or just don't care, either way I'll leave it there.
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
Excludos
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Norway8255 Posts
Last Edited: 2023-08-03 12:34:45
August 03 2023 12:32 GMT
#10312
On August 03 2023 21:18 GreenHorizons wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 03 2023 21:02 Excludos wrote:
On August 03 2023 20:33 GreenHorizons wrote:
On August 03 2023 18:14 Excludos wrote:
On August 03 2023 09:57 iFU.spx wrote:
On August 03 2023 08:38 Falling wrote:
On August 03 2023 07:32 iFU.spx wrote:
On August 03 2023 06:20 Excludos wrote:
On August 03 2023 06:19 iFU.spx wrote:
On August 03 2023 06:08 maybenexttime wrote:
@Excludos

3rd OShB is former Azov. There are some neo-Nazis in the Ukrainian armed forces. That's true of any European/American military. Spx seems to think this is some sort of a revelation.

The difference is that the Ukrainian neo-Nazis, as repugnant their ideology may be, are risking their lives to protect innocent people. The Russian neo-Nazis, on the other hand, are in Ukraine to commit a genocide. I'll take Ukrainian neo-Nazis over Russian soldiers any day.


Indeed there is no revelation in this. Hotter, but still not deep enough.


A debate is not a guessing game of hot or cold. Grow up. If you have something to say, say it


We are not debating. You just shared a video you find interesting from your point of view, I noticed additional interesting thing in the video from my point of view. Sorry to say, but you started the guessing game with "oh i get it now" instead of asking for example "what do I find interesting about this guy".

Seems to me you were not volunteering information, but instead wanted people to 'find information'. And once we found that information you were interested in our thoughts. Apparently the information they found was not the information you were thinking about. Now given that this information does not seem quite so easily available and your attempts to get us to mind read has thus far confirmed that TL is not filled with clairvoyants, I guess I will bite...

What, Mr. iFU.spx did you find so very interesting a page and a half ago that you so badly wanted to hear our thoughts that you have kept us guessing?

...

Please.


Well, at least you tried.

The most interesting thing from the video for me was to read about the guy with such strange nickname Kolovrat (and this is actually his real name now, he was Alexey, but he changed). Since this youtube channel is pretty big and has a lot of links (even website for recruiting) it was not so hard to find info about him even if you don’t speak ru or ukr (bad try @Excludos). Turns out he is known russian neo nazi, who did bad things in his city in ru, was in jail, and had to left ru, because of fear of criminal prosecution again. He is not even ukranian, but found shelter in azov.

Seeing as I didn't know who it was, couldn't find out who it was, the video had zero nazi propaganda in it, and the point of me sharing the video had nothing to do with Nazism, I think it's fair to say we are well well beyond just a digression here.

It's a neo-nazi propaganda recruitment video that is a couple clicks from a call of duty inspired recruitment page for a known neo-nazi group. I don't think you intentionally shared it to help them recruit (though everyone seems fine giving nazis guns as long as they aim them at Russia first), but that's what it is.


I did not, but way way more importantly; it doesn't matter. You claim the video is a neo-nazi propaganda recruitment video, which makes exactly zero sense. There is no mention or show any ideology in the video itself, it only shows the reality of war. The things I wanted to highlight with it (Which I specified in the post) has nothing to do with anything anyone has brought up.

But it's an cool way to derail a discussion I suppose. Good job on that

It literally leads to a recruitment page for a known neo-nazi group. Whether it mentions the prominent ideology of the group or not is a style choice. It does make it easier to spread, for what should be pretty apparent reasons now. Maybe next time be a bit more thoughtful of your source for a video like that, or just don't care, either way I'll leave it there.


Good, you and the Russian troll have derailed the discussion long enough. It was never about anything you guys decided to dig into, and you've only been arguing in bad faith while doing so. Enough is enough

A video like this would be the worst propaganda tool in existence. Absolutely no one would want to sign up after having watched it. It's horrifying from start to finish. But I would be an idiot if I believed you watched a single second of it.

But fuck me for trying to ground the discussion around the people actually in the field. smh
zeo
Profile Joined October 2009
Serbia6342 Posts
Last Edited: 2023-08-03 13:15:55
August 03 2023 13:10 GMT
#10313
On August 03 2023 21:18 GreenHorizons wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 03 2023 21:02 Excludos wrote:
On August 03 2023 20:33 GreenHorizons wrote:
On August 03 2023 18:14 Excludos wrote:
On August 03 2023 09:57 iFU.spx wrote:
On August 03 2023 08:38 Falling wrote:
On August 03 2023 07:32 iFU.spx wrote:
On August 03 2023 06:20 Excludos wrote:
On August 03 2023 06:19 iFU.spx wrote:
On August 03 2023 06:08 maybenexttime wrote:
@Excludos

3rd OShB is former Azov. There are some neo-Nazis in the Ukrainian armed forces. That's true of any European/American military. Spx seems to think this is some sort of a revelation.

The difference is that the Ukrainian neo-Nazis, as repugnant their ideology may be, are risking their lives to protect innocent people. The Russian neo-Nazis, on the other hand, are in Ukraine to commit a genocide. I'll take Ukrainian neo-Nazis over Russian soldiers any day.


Indeed there is no revelation in this. Hotter, but still not deep enough.


A debate is not a guessing game of hot or cold. Grow up. If you have something to say, say it


We are not debating. You just shared a video you find interesting from your point of view, I noticed additional interesting thing in the video from my point of view. Sorry to say, but you started the guessing game with "oh i get it now" instead of asking for example "what do I find interesting about this guy".

Seems to me you were not volunteering information, but instead wanted people to 'find information'. And once we found that information you were interested in our thoughts. Apparently the information they found was not the information you were thinking about. Now given that this information does not seem quite so easily available and your attempts to get us to mind read has thus far confirmed that TL is not filled with clairvoyants, I guess I will bite...

What, Mr. iFU.spx did you find so very interesting a page and a half ago that you so badly wanted to hear our thoughts that you have kept us guessing?

...

Please.


Well, at least you tried.

The most interesting thing from the video for me was to read about the guy with such strange nickname Kolovrat (and this is actually his real name now, he was Alexey, but he changed). Since this youtube channel is pretty big and has a lot of links (even website for recruiting) it was not so hard to find info about him even if you don’t speak ru or ukr (bad try @Excludos). Turns out he is known russian neo nazi, who did bad things in his city in ru, was in jail, and had to left ru, because of fear of criminal prosecution again. He is not even ukranian, but found shelter in azov.

Seeing as I didn't know who it was, couldn't find out who it was, the video had zero nazi propaganda in it, and the point of me sharing the video had nothing to do with Nazism, I think it's fair to say we are well well beyond just a digression here.

It's a neo-nazi propaganda recruitment video that is a couple clicks from a call of duty inspired recruitment page for a known neo-nazi group. I don't think you intentionally shared it to help them recruit (though everyone seems fine giving nazis guns as long as they aim them at Russia first), but that's what it is.


I did not, but way way more importantly; it doesn't matter. You claim the video is a neo-nazi propaganda recruitment video, which makes exactly zero sense. There is no mention or show any ideology in the video itself, it only shows the reality of war. The things I wanted to highlight with it (Which I specified in the post) has nothing to do with anything anyone has brought up.

But it's an cool way to derail a discussion I suppose. Good job on that

It literally leads to a recruitment page for a known neo-nazi group. Whether it mentions the prominent ideology of the group or not is a style choice. It does make it easier to spread, for what should be pretty apparent reasons now. Maybe next time be a bit more thoughtful of your source for a video like that, or just don't care, either way I'll leave it there.

Reminds me when they were simping for the 'Russian freedom fighters' doing cross border raids into Russia with NATO equipment. Except the freedom fighters were lead by a guy arrested in Ukraine for translating and printing the Christchurch shooter's manifesto along with a who's who of Russian neonazis kicked out of the country. General consensus was just pretend it never happened all will be forgotten in a week anyway.

ISIS posted vids all the time, what they were doing, how they were living, propaganda and whatnot. Any normal person watching that was horrified. But there are people around the World that flocked to Syria and Iraq because of them. Some guys LARPing as neo-WW2 Nazi collaborators posting a vid online is the same vibe, the fuck should I care about a guy that writes poems about Hitler getting shelled by Russians. The Ukranians mobilised off the streets have my sympathy.
"No amount of evidence will ever persuade an idiot." - Mark Twain
KwarK
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States43971 Posts
Last Edited: 2023-08-03 14:10:36
August 03 2023 14:07 GMT
#10314
On August 03 2023 16:19 captainwaffles wrote:
Former senior advisor to President Trump's Secretary of Defense and decorated war hero Col. Douglas Macgregor joins today's Liberty Report to discuss the state of the US/NATO proxy war with Russia through Ukraine. Is there danger of further escalation from the Biden Administration and what might that look like? When and how does this war end?



You can’t just declare peace and even if you could, you don’t declare peace with fascists. It just gets worse.

This is no different to 1940. There were the same “make peace” and “how does this end” Nazi sympathizers back then. It ended with the Fuhrer dead in a bunker.
ModeratorThe angels have the phone box
Ardias
Profile Joined January 2014
Russian Federation618 Posts
Last Edited: 2023-08-03 14:50:03
August 03 2023 14:49 GMT
#10315
On August 03 2023 21:32 Excludos wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 03 2023 21:18 GreenHorizons wrote:
On August 03 2023 21:02 Excludos wrote:
On August 03 2023 20:33 GreenHorizons wrote:
On August 03 2023 18:14 Excludos wrote:
On August 03 2023 09:57 iFU.spx wrote:
On August 03 2023 08:38 Falling wrote:
On August 03 2023 07:32 iFU.spx wrote:
On August 03 2023 06:20 Excludos wrote:
On August 03 2023 06:19 iFU.spx wrote:
[quote]

Indeed there is no revelation in this. Hotter, but still not deep enough.


A debate is not a guessing game of hot or cold. Grow up. If you have something to say, say it


We are not debating. You just shared a video you find interesting from your point of view, I noticed additional interesting thing in the video from my point of view. Sorry to say, but you started the guessing game with "oh i get it now" instead of asking for example "what do I find interesting about this guy".

Seems to me you were not volunteering information, but instead wanted people to 'find information'. And once we found that information you were interested in our thoughts. Apparently the information they found was not the information you were thinking about. Now given that this information does not seem quite so easily available and your attempts to get us to mind read has thus far confirmed that TL is not filled with clairvoyants, I guess I will bite...

What, Mr. iFU.spx did you find so very interesting a page and a half ago that you so badly wanted to hear our thoughts that you have kept us guessing?

...

Please.


Well, at least you tried.

The most interesting thing from the video for me was to read about the guy with such strange nickname Kolovrat (and this is actually his real name now, he was Alexey, but he changed). Since this youtube channel is pretty big and has a lot of links (even website for recruiting) it was not so hard to find info about him even if you don’t speak ru or ukr (bad try @Excludos). Turns out he is known russian neo nazi, who did bad things in his city in ru, was in jail, and had to left ru, because of fear of criminal prosecution again. He is not even ukranian, but found shelter in azov.

Seeing as I didn't know who it was, couldn't find out who it was, the video had zero nazi propaganda in it, and the point of me sharing the video had nothing to do with Nazism, I think it's fair to say we are well well beyond just a digression here.

It's a neo-nazi propaganda recruitment video that is a couple clicks from a call of duty inspired recruitment page for a known neo-nazi group. I don't think you intentionally shared it to help them recruit (though everyone seems fine giving nazis guns as long as they aim them at Russia first), but that's what it is.


I did not, but way way more importantly; it doesn't matter. You claim the video is a neo-nazi propaganda recruitment video, which makes exactly zero sense. There is no mention or show any ideology in the video itself, it only shows the reality of war. The things I wanted to highlight with it (Which I specified in the post) has nothing to do with anything anyone has brought up.

But it's an cool way to derail a discussion I suppose. Good job on that

It literally leads to a recruitment page for a known neo-nazi group. Whether it mentions the prominent ideology of the group or not is a style choice. It does make it easier to spread, for what should be pretty apparent reasons now. Maybe next time be a bit more thoughtful of your source for a video like that, or just don't care, either way I'll leave it there.


Good, you and the Russian troll have derailed the discussion long enough. It was never about anything you guys decided to dig into, and you've only been arguing in bad faith while doing so. Enough is enough

A video like this would be the worst propaganda tool in existence. Absolutely no one would want to sign up after having watched it. It's horrifying from start to finish. But I would be an idiot if I believed you watched a single second of it.

But fuck me for trying to ground the discussion around the people actually in the field. smh

I'll for once agree with you, current debate with fingerpointing at "who's the bad guy" is becoming tiresome, though it seems that this is what a lot of people are eager to do, judging by the number of pages per day.

However, I should say, the same happens often when someone from pro-Ru side is bringing something similar, and get bombarded with "Kremlin propaganda" instead of somewhat reasonable discussion.
Mess with the best or die like the rest.
JimmiC
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
Canada22817 Posts
August 03 2023 14:59 GMT
#10316
--- Nuked ---
KwarK
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States43971 Posts
Last Edited: 2023-08-03 16:04:32
August 03 2023 15:00 GMT
#10317
There is no reasonable discussion to be had on who the bad guy is. This is a WW2 remix and Putin is playing the part of Hitler. The parallels are off the charts.
+ Show Spoiler +
An empire that used to dominate Eastern Europe collapsed resulting in a decade of economic chaos, hyperinflation, and infighting between the old establishment, the military, and social revolutionaries. A populist strongman was appointed as the head of the legislative by the president. After appointment he staged fake terror attacks by political opponents to consolidate and strengthen his position.

He offered the people the restoration of order and a return of the lost status and wealth of the old empire in exchange for their abdication from political life. He also blamed the collapse of the old empire on a group of internal enemies that he asserted had undermined the old empire.

In terms of economic policy he strongly favoured large centralized business interests over trade unionism/socialism. There was essentially a pact between business elites and government, he would secure their interests against political unrest, allow for the creation of monopolies, subsidize party allies, reward friends with the property of deposed enemies, and concentrate power in the handful of industrial elites. They would reward his favour by being politically reliable and supporting his goals of rearmament.

In terms of social policy he imposed ultraconservative rules upon society based upon the rejection of globalist liberal values. Church and state were merged into a new quasi christian cult of traditionalism based on ethnic and cultural identitarianism. This cult promoted the idea that they were the bastion of traditional moral virtues against modernity and identified the leader as the only individual able to restore the nation and people.

He engaged in a policy of rapid military rearmament and advocated for the seizure of territories lost when the old empire collapsed. His main argument for this were unsubstantiated allegations of mistreatment of the minority speakers of their language living there. After diplomatic efforts failed he infiltrated the region with paramilitary forces and staged a pro-unification revolt, forcing the neighbouring nation to either allow an annexation as a fait accompli or fight back. When they fought back he intervened directly to protect the liberties of the people living there and to "restore order".

Following this success he attempted to repeat it to seize another territory using paramilitary forces to destabilize the region and then marching his army in on the pretext of protecting the minority speakers. In each instance his propagandists staged false flag attacks and continually muddied the conversation by insisting that it was actually they who had been attacked by their victims. The war on truth was fought alongside the actual war with pervasive and immersive propaganda that was so effective that even the skeptics found themselves accepting at least some of the premises of the big lie.

The victim of his second seizure of territory had defensive agreements with western powers but the western powers wanted to avoid a larger war. He was able to successfully convince them that his interest was only in protecting his people and that he had no further territorial interests. This second successful annexation, like the first, was extremely popular with his people and seemed to show the wisdom in his policy of brinkmanship. Despite ruling as a dictator and murdering and imprisoning his political opponents he also received widespread and genuine support for his regime and it appeared to be delivering on its promises. Stability was restored, the humiliation of the territorial losses following the collapse of the empire were undone, the military was rearmed, there was a sense of being respected/feared abroad, and national pride was at an all time high.

This national resurgence was celebrated with lavish olympic games, intended to show the success and prosperity of the new regime in contrast with its recent history. However this took place against a backdrop of increasing political repression and military competition.

The leader then gambled a third time and mobilized his forces on the border of a former part of his empire. Western states frantically begged him not to attack and made assurances that there was no threat to his nation but if he did invade they would be bound to act in defence of his target. Summits were called, offers of carrots and assurances of sticks were given, but all of it was futile as the order to invade had already been given.

He declared that a large Eastern European nation that used to be part of the empire was planning to attack them and therefore it was necessary in the name of self defence to invade. Despite his insistence that this was a defensive war he didn't wish to fight he also simultaneously argued that the conquest was necessary and unavoidable as part of the greater national destiny, a doublethink that was a classic staple of regime propaganda.

Unfortunately that third gamble was a bridge too far for the western powers which at last recognized that appeasement was only strengthening the dictator. They resolved to defeat him militarily. In particular a policy of lend lease by the USA was instrumental in ensuring that the military of the nations he invaded received critical supplies.

The early war was characterized by blitzkrieg and terror bombing campaigns that prioritized civilian infrastructure and population centres over targets of military value. Unfortunately this backfired and increased the resolve of the people to resist.
ModeratorThe angels have the phone box
Ardias
Profile Joined January 2014
Russian Federation618 Posts
August 03 2023 15:20 GMT
#10318
On August 04 2023 00:00 KwarK wrote:
There is no reasonable discussion to be had on who the bad guy is. This is a WW2 remix and Putin is playing the part of Hitler.

"Something similar" referred to info about boots on the ground, actual frontline action, close rear etc., like the video Excludos had initially brought. Not about philosophical "good vs evil" arguments you had for the last 15 pages.
Mess with the best or die like the rest.
Sermokala
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States14113 Posts
Last Edited: 2023-08-03 15:34:06
August 03 2023 15:33 GMT
#10319
Trying to both aides are bad the war is a wild take to compare state organized genocide and war crimes on a scale that would make a Serbian blush to a nation using a militia group when its, again under the very real targeting of genocide and war crimes. One side is trying to defend itself and the other is doing imperialism like its the 1800s again.

It's not philosophical when one side is destroying grain elevators and the other is too busy fighting on the front lines to do anything. People are going to treat Russians like they did the germans after ww2 you know that right?
A wise man will say that he knows nothing. We're gona party like its 2752 Hail Dark Brandon
Velr
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
Switzerland10882 Posts
August 03 2023 15:37 GMT
#10320
On August 04 2023 00:20 Ardias wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 04 2023 00:00 KwarK wrote:
There is no reasonable discussion to be had on who the bad guy is. This is a WW2 remix and Putin is playing the part of Hitler.

"Something similar" referred to info about boots on the ground, actual frontline action, close rear etc., like the video Excludos had initially brought. Not about philosophical "good vs evil" arguments you had for the last 15 pages.


There is no philosophical argument to be had and no one except russian trolls are having any.

Russia is the bad guy.
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