NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets.
Your supporting statement should always come BEFORE you provide the source.
On August 03 2023 06:08 maybenexttime wrote: @Excludos
3rd OShB is former Azov. There are some neo-Nazis in the Ukrainian armed forces. That's true of any European/American military. Spx seems to think this is some sort of a revelation.
The difference is that the Ukrainian neo-Nazis, as repugnant their ideology may be, are risking their lives to protect innocent people. The Russian neo-Nazis, on the other hand, are in Ukraine to commit a genocide. I'll take Ukrainian neo-Nazis over Russian soldiers any day.
Indeed there is no revelation in this. Hotter, but still not deep enough.
On August 03 2023 06:08 maybenexttime wrote: @Excludos
3rd OShB is former Azov. There are some neo-Nazis in the Ukrainian armed forces. That's true of any European/American military. Spx seems to think this is some sort of a revelation.
The difference is that the Ukrainian neo-Nazis, as repugnant their ideology may be, are risking their lives to protect innocent people. The Russian neo-Nazis, on the other hand, are in Ukraine to commit a genocide. I'll take Ukrainian neo-Nazis over Russian soldiers any day.
Indeed there is no revelation in this. Hotter, but still not deep enough.
A debate is not a guessing game of hot or cold. Grow up. If you have something to say, say it
I'll go ahead and be special and brave and say I hope all the nazis on both sides die and that ukraine ultimately wins the war. I support Ukraine. I do not support Ukrainian nazis.
On August 03 2023 06:08 maybenexttime wrote: @Excludos
3rd OShB is former Azov. There are some neo-Nazis in the Ukrainian armed forces. That's true of any European/American military. Spx seems to think this is some sort of a revelation.
The difference is that the Ukrainian neo-Nazis, as repugnant their ideology may be, are risking their lives to protect innocent people. The Russian neo-Nazis, on the other hand, are in Ukraine to commit a genocide. I'll take Ukrainian neo-Nazis over Russian soldiers any day.
Indeed there is no revelation in this. Hotter, but still not deep enough.
A debate is not a guessing game of hot or cold. Grow up. If you have something to say, say it
We are not debating. You just shared a video you find interesting from your point of view, I noticed additional interesting thing in the video from my point of view. Sorry to say, but you started the guessing game with "oh i get it now" instead of asking for example "what do I find interesting about this guy".
On August 03 2023 06:08 maybenexttime wrote: @Excludos
3rd OShB is former Azov. There are some neo-Nazis in the Ukrainian armed forces. That's true of any European/American military. Spx seems to think this is some sort of a revelation.
The difference is that the Ukrainian neo-Nazis, as repugnant their ideology may be, are risking their lives to protect innocent people. The Russian neo-Nazis, on the other hand, are in Ukraine to commit a genocide. I'll take Ukrainian neo-Nazis over Russian soldiers any day.
Indeed there is no revelation in this. Hotter, but still not deep enough.
A debate is not a guessing game of hot or cold. Grow up. If you have something to say, say it
We are not debating. You just shared a video you find interesting from your point of view, I noticed additional interesting thing in the video from my point of view. Sorry to say, but you started the guessing game with "oh i get it now" instead of asking for example "what do I find interesting about this guy".
If you have something to say, say it. I can't make myself more clear
I'm getting actively dumber trying to engage with you
On August 03 2023 06:08 maybenexttime wrote: @Excludos
3rd OShB is former Azov. There are some neo-Nazis in the Ukrainian armed forces. That's true of any European/American military. Spx seems to think this is some sort of a revelation.
The difference is that the Ukrainian neo-Nazis, as repugnant their ideology may be, are risking their lives to protect innocent people. The Russian neo-Nazis, on the other hand, are in Ukraine to commit a genocide. I'll take Ukrainian neo-Nazis over Russian soldiers any day.
Indeed there is no revelation in this. Hotter, but still not deep enough.
A debate is not a guessing game of hot or cold. Grow up. If you have something to say, say it
We are not debating. You just shared a video you find interesting from your point of view, I noticed additional interesting thing in the video from my point of view. Sorry to say, but you started the guessing game with "oh i get it now" instead of asking for example "what do I find interesting about this guy".
Seems to me you were not volunteering information, but instead wanted people to 'find information'. And once we found that information you were interested in our thoughts. Apparently the information they found was not the information you were thinking about. Now given that this information does not seem quite so easily available and your attempts to get us to mind read has thus far confirmed that TL is not filled with clairvoyants, I guess I will bite...
What, Mr. iFU.spx did you find so very interesting a page and a half ago that you so badly wanted to hear our thoughts that you have kept us guessing?
So as a result of, believed to be a provocation, Belarus has now triggered NATO increasing defenses, troops, and observations everywhere on the border with Belarus.... so in the very off chance that Wagner does something stupid and starts a border skirmish instead of being attacked by one country, Poland, they would quickly be attacked by three.
NATO allies located along the alliance’s eastern front are growing increasingly worried about the presence of Russia-linked Wagner Group mercenaries in Belarus, where some have been deployed since a short-lived mutiny in Russia in June.
Poland, Lithuania and Latvia – members of NATO and the European Union which border Belarus – had already been on alert since large numbers of migrants and refugees began arriving at their borders from Belarus two years ago.
They have accused Belarus’s President Alexander Lukashenko, an ally of Russia, of opening the migration route in an act of “hybrid warfare” aimed at creating instability in the West.
Now concerns have grown further since the Wagner troops began arriving in Belarus after their short-lived mutiny in Russia.
Poland’s Prime Minister Mateusz Morawiecki said on the weekend that about 100 Wagner fighters in Belarus had approached the border with Poland, specifically a strategically sensitive area known as the Suwalki Gap.
“Now the situation becomes even more dangerous,” Morawiecki told reporters. “This is certainly a step towards a further hybrid attack on Polish territory.”
An incident on Tuesday added further to the concerns, with two Belarusian helicopters entering Polish air space at low altitude while carrying out exercises.
Poland’s defence ministry reported that incident to NATO, which said on Wednesday that it is monitoring the situation.
“NATO is closely tracking the situation along its eastern borders, including yesterday’s incident where two Belarusian military helicopters briefly crossed into Polish airspace at low altitude,” a NATO official said on customary condition of anonymity.
“We are in close contact with the Polish authorities on this matter, and we will continue to do what is necessary to ensure all alliance territory remains secure,” the official added.
Poland, Lithuania and Latvia say they have been deploying more troops and equipment to their borders.
Guntis Pujats, head of Latvia’s State Border Guard, told Latvian media on Wednesday that security risks in the immediate vicinity of the Belarus border have been high since Minsk started using migrants as a tool of “hybrid warfare”, and that the risks have grown with the arrival of the Wagner Group.
He said border guards have started training a special task force in response.
Lithuania’s President Gitanas Nauseda said this week that it would be tempting for the Wagner Group to use its presence near the Lithuanian border “for various provocations”.
“So I think the threat is serious,” Nauseda said during a visit on Monday to a site on the border with Belarus where seven Lithuanian officers were murdered by Soviet paratroopers 32 years ago.
Others have suggested that one should not overestimate the capabilities of the armed group.
Laurynas Kasciunas, chairman of the Seimas National Security and Defence Committee, told reporters that Wagner mercenaries in Belarus with their current combat power do not pose a conventional military threat.
Whether they pose a great threat in the future, he said, “will depend on further scenarios, how they are armed and their orders”.
In Poland, some critics of the government believe that it is overstating the threat in order to present itself as tough on security before parliamentary elections this fall.
Polish opposition leader Donald Tusk accused the ruling party of using Wagner to stoke fear before the elections, something the party has denied.
Some Poles also faulted the authorities for refusing to initially acknowledge that the Belarusian helicopters had entered Poland’s airspace on Tuesday.
At first, the military insisted that the Belarusian aircraft had not entered Poland. But after local residents posted photos on social media of aircraft with Belarusian insignia several kilometres from the border inside Poland, the defence ministry put out a statement saying it was true.
The US ambassador to the United Nations, Linda Thomas-Greenfield, said earlier this week that the United States views the Wagner Group – whose forces have fought in Ukraine and also operated in Africa – as a threat.
“We have seen their malign efforts on the continent of Africa. So we certainly worry that this group, at the behest of the Russian government – because they do not work independently of the Russian government – is a threat to all of us,” Thomas-Greenfield told reporters on Monday.
“And we have to ensure that the message is clear that any attacks by the Wagner Group will be seen as an attack by the Russian government.”
On August 03 2023 06:08 maybenexttime wrote: @Excludos
3rd OShB is former Azov. There are some neo-Nazis in the Ukrainian armed forces. That's true of any European/American military. Spx seems to think this is some sort of a revelation.
The difference is that the Ukrainian neo-Nazis, as repugnant their ideology may be, are risking their lives to protect innocent people. The Russian neo-Nazis, on the other hand, are in Ukraine to commit a genocide. I'll take Ukrainian neo-Nazis over Russian soldiers any day.
Indeed there is no revelation in this. Hotter, but still not deep enough.
A debate is not a guessing game of hot or cold. Grow up. If you have something to say, say it
We are not debating. You just shared a video you find interesting from your point of view, I noticed additional interesting thing in the video from my point of view. Sorry to say, but you started the guessing game with "oh i get it now" instead of asking for example "what do I find interesting about this guy".
Seems to me you were not volunteering information, but instead wanted people to 'find information'. And once we found that information you were interested in our thoughts. Apparently the information they found was not the information you were thinking about. Now given that this information does not seem quite so easily available and your attempts to get us to mind read has thus far confirmed that TL is not filled with clairvoyants, I guess I will bite...
What, Mr. iFU.spx did you find so very interesting a page and a half ago that you so badly wanted to hear our thoughts that you have kept us guessing?
...
Please.
Well, at least you tried.
The most interesting thing from the video for me was to read about the guy with such strange nickname Kolovrat (and this is actually his real name now, he was Alexey, but he changed). Since this youtube channel is pretty big and has a lot of links (even website for recruiting) it was not so hard to find info about him even if you don’t speak ru or ukr (bad try @Excludos). Turns out he is known russian neo nazi, who did bad things in his city in ru, was in jail, and had to left ru, because of fear of criminal prosecution again. He is not even ukranian, but found shelter in azov.
On August 03 2023 06:08 maybenexttime wrote: @Excludos
3rd OShB is former Azov. There are some neo-Nazis in the Ukrainian armed forces. That's true of any European/American military. Spx seems to think this is some sort of a revelation.
The difference is that the Ukrainian neo-Nazis, as repugnant their ideology may be, are risking their lives to protect innocent people. The Russian neo-Nazis, on the other hand, are in Ukraine to commit a genocide. I'll take Ukrainian neo-Nazis over Russian soldiers any day.
Indeed there is no revelation in this. Hotter, but still not deep enough.
A debate is not a guessing game of hot or cold. Grow up. If you have something to say, say it
We are not debating. You just shared a video you find interesting from your point of view, I noticed additional interesting thing in the video from my point of view. Sorry to say, but you started the guessing game with "oh i get it now" instead of asking for example "what do I find interesting about this guy".
Seems to me you were not volunteering information, but instead wanted people to 'find information'. And once we found that information you were interested in our thoughts. Apparently the information they found was not the information you were thinking about. Now given that this information does not seem quite so easily available and your attempts to get us to mind read has thus far confirmed that TL is not filled with clairvoyants, I guess I will bite...
What, Mr. iFU.spx did you find so very interesting a page and a half ago that you so badly wanted to hear our thoughts that you have kept us guessing?
...
Please.
Well, at least you tried.
The most interesting thing from the video for me was to read about the guy with such strange nickname Kolovrat (and this is actually his real name now, he was Alexey, but he changed). Since this youtube channel is pretty big and has a lot of links (even website for recruiting) it was not so hard to find info about him even if you don’t speak ru or ukr (bad try @Excludos). Turns out he is known russian neo nazi, who did bad things in his city in ru, was in jail, and had to left ru, because of fear of criminal prosecution again. He is not even ukranian, but found shelter in azov.
I think that makes the video neo-nazi propaganda, or at least the propaganda of a neo-nazi. But hey, any port in a storm I guess...
That azov used to be a pretty much full on Nazi batallion and to some extend still is, is not exactly news. I and probably 90%++ people her don't like Nazis but luckily, they had never any political power in Ukraine (and if then under the pro russian goverments) and are fighting against a facist russia.
On August 02 2023 09:10 JimmiC wrote: @zeo do you consider russias allies, Iran, North Korea and China to also be the good guys?
I consider them to not have anything to do with what happened in Ukraine. They wernt part of any of the agreements, they didn't give guarentees to anyone, they didn't violate the Budapest memorandum on the political freedom of Ukraine by funding and organizing a coup.
Looking at the World as 'good guys' and 'bad guys' is kind of the reason we are all in conflict today.
Also kind of dissapointed with the poor quality of one-liner shitposters on this page. You could have put a little more effort. Edit: Litterally just: No, u! A strawman. A tu quoque fallacy. Another strawman. Baby noises.
You keep bringing up this "coup". Care to explain how it's relevant to the war? Ukraine has had multiple internationally recognised elections since then. As a matter of fact, Russia recognised each one of them.
Past events have no implications on modern events. Everything can be explained in bullet points with absolutely no context. Nothing happened in Ukraines political landscape since 2014 that had any consequences whatsoever. Those guys running Maidan all being kicked out of pollitics because they ran the country into the ground even more than the last guys? Eleven opposition parties being banned by Zelensky? Non government linked media banned? Neo-Nazi footsoldiers that did the dirtywork overthrowing the previous government being given concessions, government positions to the openly fascist Svoboda party and privilages?
Why take into account anything? Don't think about it.
On August 03 2023 06:08 maybenexttime wrote: @Excludos
3rd OShB is former Azov. There are some neo-Nazis in the Ukrainian armed forces. That's true of any European/American military. Spx seems to think this is some sort of a revelation.
The difference is that the Ukrainian neo-Nazis, as repugnant their ideology may be, are risking their lives to protect innocent people. The Russian neo-Nazis, on the other hand, are in Ukraine to commit a genocide. I'll take Ukrainian neo-Nazis over Russian soldiers any day.
Reaching peak clown world here. Its like saying the bank robbers are protecting the innocent civilians inside the bank from the police that have surrounded them.
On August 02 2023 09:10 JimmiC wrote: @zeo do you consider russias allies, Iran, North Korea and China to also be the good guys?
I consider them to not have anything to do with what happened in Ukraine. They wernt part of any of the agreements, they didn't give guarentees to anyone, they didn't violate the Budapest memorandum on the political freedom of Ukraine by funding and organizing a coup.
Looking at the World as 'good guys' and 'bad guys' is kind of the reason we are all in conflict today.
Also kind of dissapointed with the poor quality of one-liner shitposters on this page. You could have put a little more effort. Edit: Litterally just: No, u! A strawman. A tu quoque fallacy. Another strawman. Baby noises.
You keep bringing up this "coup". Care to explain how it's relevant to the war? Ukraine has had multiple internationally recognised elections since then. As a matter of fact, Russia recognised each one of them.
Past events have no implications on modern events. Everything can be explained in bullet points with absolutely no context. Nothing happened in Ukraines political landscape since 2014 that had any consequences whatsoever. Those guys running Maidan all being kicked out of pollitics because they ran the country into the ground even more than the last guys? Eleven opposition parties being banned by Zelensky? Non government linked media banned? Neo-Nazi footsoldiers that did the dirtywork overthrowing the previous government being given concetions, government positions and privilages?
Why take into account anything? Don't think about it.
On August 03 2023 06:08 maybenexttime wrote: @Excludos
3rd OShB is former Azov. There are some neo-Nazis in the Ukrainian armed forces. That's true of any European/American military. Spx seems to think this is some sort of a revelation.
The difference is that the Ukrainian neo-Nazis, as repugnant their ideology may be, are risking their lives to protect innocent people. The Russian neo-Nazis, on the other hand, are in Ukraine to commit a genocide. I'll take Ukrainian neo-Nazis over Russian soldiers any day.
Reaching peak clown world here. Its like saying the bank robbers are protecting the innocent civilians inside the bank from the police that have surrounded them.
Only if the bankrobbers were actually sitting at home, and the police was indeed planning on raping and murdering the civilians in that home.
E: and in case you were wondering, in that case I would indeed be cheering for the bankrobbers.
On August 02 2023 09:10 JimmiC wrote: @zeo do you consider russias allies, Iran, North Korea and China to also be the good guys?
I consider them to not have anything to do with what happened in Ukraine. They wernt part of any of the agreements, they didn't give guarentees to anyone, they didn't violate the Budapest memorandum on the political freedom of Ukraine by funding and organizing a coup.
Looking at the World as 'good guys' and 'bad guys' is kind of the reason we are all in conflict today.
Also kind of dissapointed with the poor quality of one-liner shitposters on this page. You could have put a little more effort. Edit: Litterally just: No, u! A strawman. A tu quoque fallacy. Another strawman. Baby noises.
You keep bringing up this "coup". Care to explain how it's relevant to the war? Ukraine has had multiple internationally recognised elections since then. As a matter of fact, Russia recognised each one of them.
Past events have no implications on modern events. Everything can be explained in bullet points with absolutely no context. Nothing happened in Ukraines political landscape since 2014 that had any consequences whatsoever. Those guys running Maidan all being kicked out of pollitics because they ran the country into the ground even more than the last guys? Eleven opposition parties being banned by Zelensky? Non government linked media banned? Neo-Nazi footsoldiers that did the dirtywork overthrowing the previous government being given concetions, government positions and privilages?
Why take into account anything? Don't think about it.
On August 03 2023 06:08 maybenexttime wrote: @Excludos
3rd OShB is former Azov. There are some neo-Nazis in the Ukrainian armed forces. That's true of any European/American military. Spx seems to think this is some sort of a revelation.
The difference is that the Ukrainian neo-Nazis, as repugnant their ideology may be, are risking their lives to protect innocent people. The Russian neo-Nazis, on the other hand, are in Ukraine to commit a genocide. I'll take Ukrainian neo-Nazis over Russian soldiers any day.
Reaching peak clown world here. Its like saying the bank robbers are protecting the innocent civilians inside the bank from the police that have surrounded them.
Only if the bankrobbers were actually sitting at home, and the police was indeed planning on raping and murdering the civilians in that home.
E: and in case you were wondering, in that case I would indeed be cheering for the bankrobbers.
We should petition to bring in flairs for this thread. One for the neo-nazi Hitler enjoyers and another for the rapist-genocider side
Former senior advisor to President Trump's Secretary of Defense and decorated war hero Col. Douglas Macgregor joins today's Liberty Report to discuss the state of the US/NATO proxy war with Russia through Ukraine. Is there danger of further escalation from the Biden Administration and what might that look like? When and how does this war end?
Ron Paul should not be taken seriously by anyone. I mean this is the man that believes the US started the Korean War. Supports the US withdrawal from not only NATO, but also the UN. Lest we forget his proposal on the war on terrorism.... that the US issue Letters of marque. He's a crank.
That colonel also thinks that Ukraine made Russia invade them, so it's no wonder he thinks they ought to sue for peace. Really it's Ukraine's fault for thinking they might need to join an alliance to avoid getting invaded. Russia has really put an end to that foolish thinking.
I just really don't understand the thinking that makes Ukraine some kind of puppet of the US with no initiative of their own. "US-NATO proxy war." "US-NATO war through Ukraine". "We assigned Ukraine to destruction." Like who exactly invaded whom, colonel? None of these are true of the US. These are all true of Russia... well the first is just simply a war, with no proxy. Terribly biased framing of the war.
I strongly suspect that given past Russian behaviour in the Donbass, followed by Crimea, followed by the 'Special Military Operation' that ended up on the doorstep of their capital this war looks fairly existential from the Ukrainian perspective. What the US thinks on the matter is pretty irrelevant as to Ukrainian desire fight, so then it's just a matter of cutting off supplies and caving to Russian aggression at the cost of Ukrainian sovereignty or else continuing supplies to support the already existant desire of a sovereign state. US supplies the means, not the motivation.
On August 02 2023 09:10 JimmiC wrote: @zeo do you consider russias allies, Iran, North Korea and China to also be the good guys?
I consider them to not have anything to do with what happened in Ukraine. They wernt part of any of the agreements, they didn't give guarentees to anyone, they didn't violate the Budapest memorandum on the political freedom of Ukraine by funding and organizing a coup.
Looking at the World as 'good guys' and 'bad guys' is kind of the reason we are all in conflict today.
Also kind of dissapointed with the poor quality of one-liner shitposters on this page. You could have put a little more effort. Edit: Litterally just: No, u! A strawman. A tu quoque fallacy. Another strawman. Baby noises.
You keep bringing up this "coup". Care to explain how it's relevant to the war? Ukraine has had multiple internationally recognised elections since then. As a matter of fact, Russia recognised each one of them.
Past events have no implications on modern events. Everything can be explained in bullet points with absolutely no context. Nothing happened in Ukraines political landscape since 2014 that had any consequences whatsoever. Those guys running Maidan all being kicked out of pollitics because they ran the country into the ground even more than the last guys? Eleven opposition parties being banned by Zelensky? Non government linked media banned? Neo-Nazi footsoldiers that did the dirtywork overthrowing the previous government being given concetions, government positions and privilages?
Why take into account anything? Don't think about it.
On August 03 2023 06:08 maybenexttime wrote: @Excludos
3rd OShB is former Azov. There are some neo-Nazis in the Ukrainian armed forces. That's true of any European/American military. Spx seems to think this is some sort of a revelation.
The difference is that the Ukrainian neo-Nazis, as repugnant their ideology may be, are risking their lives to protect innocent people. The Russian neo-Nazis, on the other hand, are in Ukraine to commit a genocide. I'll take Ukrainian neo-Nazis over Russian soldiers any day.
Reaching peak clown world here. Its like saying the bank robbers are protecting the innocent civilians inside the bank from the police that have surrounded them.
Only if the bankrobbers were actually sitting at home, and the police was indeed planning on raping and murdering the civilians in that home.
E: and in case you were wondering, in that case I would indeed be cheering for the bankrobbers.
He's spreading misinformation again. Zelensky suspended these parties in March 2022. zeo left that information out on purpose, instead framing it as Zelensky having made this move "since 2014" to shape the political landscape. In reality it came as part of martial law.
"The 11 opposition parties named were: Opposition Platform - For Life, Shariy Party, Nashi, Opposition Bloc, Left Opposition, Union of Left Forces, State, Progressive Socialist Party of Ukraine, Socialist Party of Ukraine, Socialists Party, and Volodymyr Saldo Bloc."
As an example, the former "For Life" party is now "Platform For Life and Peace". They openly excluded Viktor Medvedchuk, Vadim Rabinovich and Vadym Stolar. If you look up Viktor Medvedchuk, it becomes clear why the party was suspended. They're currently allowed to run under their new name.
"The group explicitly announced that it did not include Viktor Medvedchuk, Vadym Rabinovych, Vadym Stolar, and their supporters, who had belonged to the prior Opposition Platform — For Life party.[6] Some of these politicians had left Ukraine before the invasion started,[7] or are perceived as proxies for Russia within Ukraine.[8]"
On August 02 2023 09:10 JimmiC wrote: @zeo do you consider russias allies, Iran, North Korea and China to also be the good guys?
I consider them to not have anything to do with what happened in Ukraine. They wernt part of any of the agreements, they didn't give guarentees to anyone, they didn't violate the Budapest memorandum on the political freedom of Ukraine by funding and organizing a coup.
Looking at the World as 'good guys' and 'bad guys' is kind of the reason we are all in conflict today.
Also kind of dissapointed with the poor quality of one-liner shitposters on this page. You could have put a little more effort. Edit: Litterally just: No, u! A strawman. A tu quoque fallacy. Another strawman. Baby noises.
You keep bringing up this "coup". Care to explain how it's relevant to the war? Ukraine has had multiple internationally recognised elections since then. As a matter of fact, Russia recognised each one of them.
Past events have no implications on modern events. Everything can be explained in bullet points with absolutely no context. Nothing happened in Ukraines political landscape since 2014 that had any consequences whatsoever. Those guys running Maidan all being kicked out of pollitics because they ran the country into the ground even more than the last guys? Eleven opposition parties being banned by Zelensky? Non government linked media banned? Neo-Nazi footsoldiers that did the dirtywork overthrowing the previous government being given concetions, government positions and privilages?
Why take into account anything? Don't think about it.
On August 03 2023 06:08 maybenexttime wrote: @Excludos
3rd OShB is former Azov. There are some neo-Nazis in the Ukrainian armed forces. That's true of any European/American military. Spx seems to think this is some sort of a revelation.
The difference is that the Ukrainian neo-Nazis, as repugnant their ideology may be, are risking their lives to protect innocent people. The Russian neo-Nazis, on the other hand, are in Ukraine to commit a genocide. I'll take Ukrainian neo-Nazis over Russian soldiers any day.
Reaching peak clown world here. Its like saying the bank robbers are protecting the innocent civilians inside the bank from the police that have surrounded them.
Only if the bankrobbers were actually sitting at home, and the police was indeed planning on raping and murdering the civilians in that home.
E: and in case you were wondering, in that case I would indeed be cheering for the bankrobbers.
We should petition to bring in flairs for this thread. One for the neo-nazi Hitler enjoyers and another for the rapist-genocider side
On August 02 2023 09:10 JimmiC wrote: @zeo do you consider russias allies, Iran, North Korea and China to also be the good guys?
I consider them to not have anything to do with what happened in Ukraine. They wernt part of any of the agreements, they didn't give guarentees to anyone, they didn't violate the Budapest memorandum on the political freedom of Ukraine by funding and organizing a coup.
Looking at the World as 'good guys' and 'bad guys' is kind of the reason we are all in conflict today.
Also kind of dissapointed with the poor quality of one-liner shitposters on this page. You could have put a little more effort. Edit: Litterally just: No, u! A strawman. A tu quoque fallacy. Another strawman. Baby noises.
You keep bringing up this "coup". Care to explain how it's relevant to the war? Ukraine has had multiple internationally recognised elections since then. As a matter of fact, Russia recognised each one of them.
Past events have no implications on modern events. Everything can be explained in bullet points with absolutely no context. Nothing happened in Ukraines political landscape since 2014 that had any consequences whatsoever. Those guys running Maidan all being kicked out of pollitics because they ran the country into the ground even more than the last guys? Eleven opposition parties being banned by Zelensky? Non government linked media banned? Neo-Nazi footsoldiers that did the dirtywork overthrowing the previous government being given concetions, government positions and privilages?
Why take into account anything? Don't think about it.
On August 03 2023 06:08 maybenexttime wrote: @Excludos
3rd OShB is former Azov. There are some neo-Nazis in the Ukrainian armed forces. That's true of any European/American military. Spx seems to think this is some sort of a revelation.
The difference is that the Ukrainian neo-Nazis, as repugnant their ideology may be, are risking their lives to protect innocent people. The Russian neo-Nazis, on the other hand, are in Ukraine to commit a genocide. I'll take Ukrainian neo-Nazis over Russian soldiers any day.
Reaching peak clown world here. Its like saying the bank robbers are protecting the innocent civilians inside the bank from the police that have surrounded them.
Only if the bankrobbers were actually sitting at home, and the police was indeed planning on raping and murdering the civilians in that home.
E: and in case you were wondering, in that case I would indeed be cheering for the bankrobbers.
He's spreading misinformation again. Zelensky suspended these parties in March 2022. zeo left that information out on purpose, instead framing it as Zelensky having made this move "since 2014" to shape the political landscape. In reality it came as part of martial law.
"The 11 opposition parties named were: Opposition Platform - For Life, Shariy Party, Nashi, Opposition Bloc, Left Opposition, Union of Left Forces, State, Progressive Socialist Party of Ukraine, Socialist Party of Ukraine, Socialists Party, and Volodymyr Saldo Bloc."
As an example, the former "For Life" party is now "Platform For Life and Peace". They openly excluded Viktor Medvedchuk, Vadim Rabinovich and Vadym Stolar. If you look up Viktor Medvedchuk, it becomes clear why the party was suspended. They're currently allowed to run under their new name.
"The group explicitly announced that it did not include Viktor Medvedchuk, Vadym Rabinovych, Vadym Stolar, and their supporters, who had belonged to the prior Opposition Platform — For Life party.[6] Some of these politicians had left Ukraine before the invasion started,[7] or are perceived as proxies for Russia within Ukraine.[8]"
Yes Zelensky wasnt in power in 2014 how you even connect the two different points is beyond anyone. Giving examples of the corrupt politicians that pulled and kept Ukraine in this mess is part of the post. Your example of debunking misinformation is just to confirm that he did in fact ban political parties lol. You should have stuck to your pledge to not talk yesterday when you failed.
'b-b-but they were allegedaly conected to Russia' - one of the parties had 14% of the popular vote in 2019. Nationalising all media and banning any dissent is not democratic whichever way people like you want to twist it. If there were so insignificant why was he terrified to the point of banning them? Opening up new puppet opposition parties is not democracy.
Zelensky has dealt with and suffocated every single political figure in the country that in any way can take power away from his corrupt clique. Maybe Klitchko has a chance but Zelensky banned the possibility of any elections until he decides otherwise
On August 02 2023 09:10 JimmiC wrote: @zeo do you consider russias allies, Iran, North Korea and China to also be the good guys?
I consider them to not have anything to do with what happened in Ukraine. They wernt part of any of the agreements, they didn't give guarentees to anyone, they didn't violate the Budapest memorandum on the political freedom of Ukraine by funding and organizing a coup.
Looking at the World as 'good guys' and 'bad guys' is kind of the reason we are all in conflict today.
Also kind of dissapointed with the poor quality of one-liner shitposters on this page. You could have put a little more effort. Edit: Litterally just: No, u! A strawman. A tu quoque fallacy. Another strawman. Baby noises.
You keep bringing up this "coup". Care to explain how it's relevant to the war? Ukraine has had multiple internationally recognised elections since then. As a matter of fact, Russia recognised each one of them.
Past events have no implications on modern events. Everything can be explained in bullet points with absolutely no context. Nothing happened in Ukraines political landscape since 2014 that had any consequences whatsoever. Those guys running Maidan all being kicked out of pollitics because they ran the country into the ground even more than the last guys? Eleven opposition parties being banned by Zelensky? Non government linked media banned? Neo-Nazi footsoldiers that did the dirtywork overthrowing the previous government being given concetions, government positions and privilages?
Why take into account anything? Don't think about it.
On August 03 2023 06:08 maybenexttime wrote: @Excludos
3rd OShB is former Azov. There are some neo-Nazis in the Ukrainian armed forces. That's true of any European/American military. Spx seems to think this is some sort of a revelation.
The difference is that the Ukrainian neo-Nazis, as repugnant their ideology may be, are risking their lives to protect innocent people. The Russian neo-Nazis, on the other hand, are in Ukraine to commit a genocide. I'll take Ukrainian neo-Nazis over Russian soldiers any day.
Reaching peak clown world here. Its like saying the bank robbers are protecting the innocent civilians inside the bank from the police that have surrounded them.
Only if the bankrobbers were actually sitting at home, and the police was indeed planning on raping and murdering the civilians in that home.
E: and in case you were wondering, in that case I would indeed be cheering for the bankrobbers.
We should petition to bring in flairs for this thread. One for the neo-nazi Hitler enjoyers and another for the rapist-genocider side
Need also one for the Serbian trolls.
Would prefer that to the genocidal rapist one if I have to choose but if we start giving everyone a flair its too much work
On August 03 2023 06:08 maybenexttime wrote: @Excludos
3rd OShB is former Azov. There are some neo-Nazis in the Ukrainian armed forces. That's true of any European/American military. Spx seems to think this is some sort of a revelation.
The difference is that the Ukrainian neo-Nazis, as repugnant their ideology may be, are risking their lives to protect innocent people. The Russian neo-Nazis, on the other hand, are in Ukraine to commit a genocide. I'll take Ukrainian neo-Nazis over Russian soldiers any day.
Indeed there is no revelation in this. Hotter, but still not deep enough.
A debate is not a guessing game of hot or cold. Grow up. If you have something to say, say it
We are not debating. You just shared a video you find interesting from your point of view, I noticed additional interesting thing in the video from my point of view. Sorry to say, but you started the guessing game with "oh i get it now" instead of asking for example "what do I find interesting about this guy".
Seems to me you were not volunteering information, but instead wanted people to 'find information'. And once we found that information you were interested in our thoughts. Apparently the information they found was not the information you were thinking about. Now given that this information does not seem quite so easily available and your attempts to get us to mind read has thus far confirmed that TL is not filled with clairvoyants, I guess I will bite...
What, Mr. iFU.spx did you find so very interesting a page and a half ago that you so badly wanted to hear our thoughts that you have kept us guessing?
...
Please.
Well, at least you tried.
The most interesting thing from the video for me was to read about the guy with such strange nickname Kolovrat (and this is actually his real name now, he was Alexey, but he changed). Since this youtube channel is pretty big and has a lot of links (even website for recruiting) it was not so hard to find info about him even if you don’t speak ru or ukr (bad try @Excludos). Turns out he is known russian neo nazi, who did bad things in his city in ru, was in jail, and had to left ru, because of fear of criminal prosecution again. He is not even ukranian, but found shelter in azov.
I still love that you tried to make me guess what you wanted to say, refused to say it after asking repeatedly (I did ask no less than 3 times), and then claim it was a "bad try" of me because I'm not clairvoyant. But hey, you still haven't shared a single source that actually backs up anything you're claiming here. And, I suspect, you're never going to. I love how smug you try to sound for someone who refuses to back up his incredibly vague statements with anything resembling sources, so anyone else could actually know wtf you are talking about without going through a game of hot and cold first.
Seeing as I didn't know who it was, couldn't find out who it was, the video had zero nazi propaganda in it, and the point of me sharing the video had nothing to do with Nazism, I think it's fair to say we are well well beyond just a digression here.
Maybe you could comment on some of the actual points I brought up instead? Or would that not fit into your "Ukraine are Nazis who deserves to be exterminated" ideology?
EPT
