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Russo-Ukrainian War Thread - Page 464

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NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets.

Your supporting statement should always come BEFORE you provide the source.
Magic Powers
Profile Joined April 2012
Austria4478 Posts
June 20 2023 20:29 GMT
#9261
That's a crazy big explosion. Not sure how many of these Russia can realistically produce and send to the front, I hope it's not a lot.
If you want to do the right thing, 80% of your job is done if you don't do the wrong thing.
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
June 21 2023 12:55 GMT
#9262
Apparent update on the morale of some Russian units that are still on the front after several months.



+ Show Spoiler +


"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
Simberto
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Germany12086 Posts
June 21 2023 13:10 GMT
#9263
On June 21 2023 21:55 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
Apparent update on the morale of some Russian units that are still on the front after several months.

https://twitter.com/ChrisO_wiki/status/1671486485944565764

+ Show Spoiler +

https://twitter.com/ChrisO_wiki/status/1671486489094438912
https://twitter.com/ChrisO_wiki/status/1671486492445663239


Interesting. To me, it sounds like a very bad idea to make a lot of people with guns very angry at you. Sounds like a situation that leads to "accidents" like an armed grenade accidentally dropped into the officers room.
Magic Powers
Profile Joined April 2012
Austria4478 Posts
June 21 2023 18:46 GMT
#9264
Satellite images from the Kakhovka dam showing the reservoir being completely dried out. Before and after.

If you want to do the right thing, 80% of your job is done if you don't do the wrong thing.
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
Last Edited: 2023-06-21 19:21:41
June 21 2023 19:06 GMT
#9265
Looks like supplying F-16's to Ukraine is starting to pick up. Only question is will Romania allow it especially for a non NATO country. Ally or not.

A coalition of Western countries is eyeing Romania as a possible location to train Ukrainian pilots to fly F-16 fighter jets, according to three people with knowledge of the planning, indicating that NATO countries are moving closer to starting a program that could see the warplanes above Ukrainian skies within months.

“Romania is one of the sites that the coalition is looking at for hosting training in,” said a Western official, who along with a current and a former Defense Department official were granted anonymity to discuss a sensitive effort.

The group is working to negotiate a contract to conduct the aircraft training at a site in Romania, the current and former Pentagon officials said. It’s likely that Lockheed Martin, which builds the F-16, would conduct the training, they added.

Details about the training program have been slow to emerge since President Joe Biden lent his support to the effort last month. The Netherlands and Denmark are leading the multinational training effort, but the partners have not yet settled the question of which countries would provide the aircraft required for training.

European officials would neither confirm nor deny that the proposal to train Ukrainian pilots in Romania is under discussion. A Dutch Defense Ministry spokesperson would say only that the partners are working to establish an F-16 training center in Eastern Europe. But the discussion of which country will donate jets has not yet been settled.

A Lockheed spokesperson pointed to comments by the company’s chief operating officer, Frank St. John, this week that the firm stands ready to train Ukrainian pilots to fly and maintain the F-16s as soon as Western countries agree to send them.

“The delivery of F16s is not at the table now. We are working very hard to start the F-16 training [with Denmark to train Ukrainian] pilots as soon as possible,” the spokesperson said. “Delivery requires a separate decision-making process.”

Denmark’s acting minister of defense, Troels Lund Poulsen, said he hopes to be able to present a “concept” in time for the NATO summit in Vilnius in July, and that the training will begin later this summer.

“The last few weeks I’ve had several opportunities to discuss possible models for training of Ukrainian pilots and support staff for the F-16 jets with my colleagues. I am very pleased to see that the coalition behind training pilots and support staff for F-16 continuously broadens,” he said in a statement emailed Wednesday. “It will be an important strategic step in the long term.”

U.S. Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin and Joint Chiefs Chair Gen. Mark Milley received a briefing on the group’s progress last week, Austin told reporters during a visit to Brussels, adding that “there’s a lot of work to do.”

Romania’s air force operates a fleet of 17 secondhand F-16s acquired from Portugal, and is buying an additional 32 jets from Norway. However, Bucharest recently approved a plan to purchase the more advanced F-35.

The country plays a critical role in NATO’s air policing mission, an international task force dedicated to continuously patrolling European skies in order to quickly react to airspace violations. NATO countries regularly scramble to intercept Russian aircraft flying in the area.

Asked whether negotiations are ongoing for Ukrainian pilots to be trained in Romania, the country’s defense ministry neither confirmed nor denied that the country is under consideration.

But commenting more broadly, the ministry did say in an emailed statement Wednesday that the country “welcomes the initiative to establish a coalition of NATO Allies to provide training of pilots for F-16s.”


Source

Also:

"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
Zaros
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United Kingdom3692 Posts
June 21 2023 20:28 GMT
#9266
On June 22 2023 03:46 Magic Powers wrote:
Satellite images from the Kakhovka dam showing the reservoir being completely dried out. Before and after.

https://twitter.com/War_Mapper/status/1671207967843139584


I guess this supports rumours that Ukraine are moving troops across to try get a foothold on the other side.
Simberto
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Germany12086 Posts
June 21 2023 20:32 GMT
#9267
Dunno. An area that used to be a lake a few weeks ago sounds like bad terrain to pass through?
Lmui
Profile Joined November 2010
Canada6223 Posts
June 21 2023 20:32 GMT
#9268
On June 22 2023 05:28 Zaros wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 22 2023 03:46 Magic Powers wrote:
Satellite images from the Kakhovka dam showing the reservoir being completely dried out. Before and after.

https://twitter.com/War_Mapper/status/1671207967843139584


I guess this supports rumours that Ukraine are moving troops across to try get a foothold on the other side.


Maybe, but if you've ever seen a dry pond in summer, it takes probably 3-5 weeks of intense sunlight to bake a pondbed dry enough to walk on it without sinking in 6". I'd imagine it would be another few weeks to be solid enough for vehicles to move across.

It's definitely opened some avenues that weren't available previously, but I think it'd be some time before we see any large troop movement across the area.
Magic Powers
Profile Joined April 2012
Austria4478 Posts
June 21 2023 20:42 GMT
#9269
Eventually it'll be possible to pass, so Russian forces will have to take care of the region. This gives hope to future offensives. But I think it's not yet critical, and the Russian forces will likely have some time to set up fresh defense lines.
If you want to do the right thing, 80% of your job is done if you don't do the wrong thing.
Acrofales
Profile Joined August 2010
Spain18494 Posts
June 21 2023 22:08 GMT
#9270
On June 22 2023 05:42 Magic Powers wrote:
Eventually it'll be possible to pass, so Russian forces will have to take care of the region. This gives hope to future offensives. But I think it's not yet critical, and the Russian forces will likely have some time to set up fresh defense lines.

It'll, with time, obviously be easier to cross than a huge dam, but the Dnieper is still a very large river in its own right. It won't be any easier than a bit upriver or downriver before. It's really just the lack of deep Russian defenses that might make crossing the river here more viable, but as you say, the Russians have quite a bit more time to set up those defenses.
JimmiC
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
Canada22817 Posts
June 22 2023 16:51 GMT
#9271
--- Nuked ---
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
June 22 2023 19:20 GMT
#9272
Video of the missile strike on one of the bridges.



Russian invaders are beginning to panic following a Ukrainian strike on a bridge connecting the occupied Crimean peninsula to Kherson Oblast, Denys Chystikov, the Deputy Permanent Representative of the President of Ukraine in Crimea said in an interview with Radio NV on June 22.

The attack reminds them of last year’s strike at the Antonivskyi bridge in Kherson, Chystikov claims.

“Today’s explosions on the Chonhar bridge, as we can see from the photo and video, remind the invaders of a similar situation with the Kherson bridge, which paved the way for the liberation of the right bank,” he said.

“This is a certain associative series that causes panic among the Russian military.”

Explosions overnight on June 22 were reported not only near the village of Chonhar in Kherson Oblast, where the bridge is located, but also near the town of Dzhankoy in occupied Crimea. However, the occupying authorities are trying to cover up the results of the strike, Chystikov added.

“Dzhankoy has been panicking since morning,” the official said.

“Local residents are reporting a large number of explosions in this area, which the occupation authority is silent about. Many Crimean residents are engaged in the transportation industry. Now their relatives have started to worry as they cannot contact the drivers by phone, and this results in the spread of negative opinions and dissatisfaction with the authority’s actions.”

No casualties have been reported in the blast at the Chonhar bridge. Meanwhile, Volodymyr Saldo, the Moscow-appointed head of the Kherson occupation authority, claimed that “the connection between Kherson Oblast and Crimea continues to operate, as vehicle traffic has been temporarily organized onto a backup route.”


Source
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
Copymizer
Profile Joined November 2010
Denmark2109 Posts
June 23 2023 06:43 GMT
#9273


I think this is a very good and powerful message to send in order to deter russia
~~Yo man ! MBCGame HERO Fighting !! Holy check !
Acrofales
Profile Joined August 2010
Spain18494 Posts
June 23 2023 07:01 GMT
#9274
On June 23 2023 15:43 Copymizer wrote:
https://twitter.com/igorsushko/status/1672029829573787648

I think this is a very good and powerful message to send in order to deter russia

Eh, I don't like it.

1. It seems designed as a way to say "look, Ukraine is protected by NATO, job done" when it covers the scariest but also least likely attack Russia is going to do, but none of the ways Ukraine needs help right now.

2. The US cannot unilaterally declare that nuclear attacks on Ukraine are an attack on NATO. Why isn't this a NATO statement that France, Germany, UK, and even Turkey have to agree with? It feels like overreach.

3. Ironically, it creates a perverse incentive for Ukraine to do a false flag attack on Zaporizhze if they are ever feeling truly desperate in their war effort and force NATO to invoke article 5. Anything that creates a potential incentive to blow up a nuclear power plant is a terrible idea.
Mikau
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Netherlands1446 Posts
June 23 2023 07:20 GMT
#9275
I'm just happy at least some part of the Republican party is still interested in supporting Ukraine (regardless of whether or not this is the best way of showing said support), which might end up being very relevant come 2024.
Silvanel
Profile Blog Joined March 2003
Poland4769 Posts
Last Edited: 2023-06-23 07:39:49
June 23 2023 07:39 GMT
#9276
It is a response for Russian nuclear threats, which have again resurfaced in their internal discurse.
Pathetic Greta hater.
Sent.
Profile Joined June 2012
Poland9336 Posts
Last Edited: 2023-06-23 07:49:24
June 23 2023 07:47 GMT
#9277
It's just a non-binding opinion of American senators. Nobody should consider it a "hard" guarantee of anything.
You're now breathing manually
Yurie
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
12186 Posts
Last Edited: 2023-06-23 07:58:30
June 23 2023 07:56 GMT
#9278
It does make sense if the fallout becomes bad. Chernobyl hit Germany and all the Baltic states with high doses, not to mention Romania or other southern states. This then becomes a nuclear attack with real impact on NATO countries. A small tactical nuke I don't think falls under that umbrella.

As for the bridges. How good are connections from the east to the current hot zone of combat?
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
Last Edited: 2023-06-23 12:51:44
June 23 2023 12:49 GMT
#9279
Daily war update from Prigozhin himself. Still trying to figure out what his plan is, is it political or military? No idea.

Or is he simply trying to buy time to rebuild/resupply his private army after Bakhmut...



"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
Excludos
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Norway8281 Posts
June 23 2023 14:05 GMT
#9280
On June 23 2023 16:01 Acrofales wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 23 2023 15:43 Copymizer wrote:
https://twitter.com/igorsushko/status/1672029829573787648

I think this is a very good and powerful message to send in order to deter russia

Eh, I don't like it.

1. It seems designed as a way to say "look, Ukraine is protected by NATO, job done" when it covers the scariest but also least likely attack Russia is going to do, but none of the ways Ukraine needs help right now.

2. The US cannot unilaterally declare that nuclear attacks on Ukraine are an attack on NATO. Why isn't this a NATO statement that France, Germany, UK, and even Turkey have to agree with? It feels like overreach.

3. Ironically, it creates a perverse incentive for Ukraine to do a false flag attack on Zaporizhze if they are ever feeling truly desperate in their war effort and force NATO to invoke article 5. Anything that creates a potential incentive to blow up a nuclear power plant is a terrible idea.


1. A nuclear attack on Ukraine won't affect just Ukraine, the fallout will fall all across Europe

2. US can unilaterally declare it as an attack on NATO. Any one NATO member can call Article 5. There's no overreach, it is designed to work this way. Otherwise the whole alliance would be useless, as people would be free to not give a shit about Country X being invaded and calling article 5.

3. It does not. Ukraine's only chance of succeeding in this war is with support from the west. They have zero reasons to make themselves less popular. The truth of false flag operations has a nasty tendency to come out sooner or later. At that point, every ounce of support Ukraine has would be withdrawn. It would be genuinely suicide

Currently, the only people saber rattling with Nuclear weapons is Russia. A powerful statement reminding them of the consequences of such actions is not out of line, an overreach, or in any way creates incentive for Ukraine to blow up their nuclear powerplants in an attempt to pretend that it's Russia
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