EPTRusso-Ukrainian War Thread - Page 379
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NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets. Your supporting statement should always come BEFORE you provide the source. | ||
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{CC}StealthBlue
United States41117 Posts
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Simberto
Germany11774 Posts
On February 11 2023 09:10 {CC}StealthBlue wrote: What? This seems like a current myth going around the Russian units to excuse why they can't advance. Needless to say I want to see those photos... Highly depends on what you mean with "underground cities". WW1 fortifications could easily be described as underground cities, and with a stationary situation like this, it is not unlikely that a lot of digging in has happened, leading to similar fortifications. When people say "trench warfare" they assume it means just a hole dug by some people. WW1 trench warfare, especially on the western front, meant km deep lines upon lines of trenches and underground bunkers. | ||
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{CC}StealthBlue
United States41117 Posts
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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Artesimo
Germany567 Posts
On February 12 2023 00:10 {CC}StealthBlue wrote: There wasn't a Senior Diplomat available to be brought with him to try and smooth what he said over... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zOXaOd_h2hA What was there to be smoothed over? He did not really say anything outrageous, crass, or that has not been said by other military officials I think. Like the most 'controversial' thing in this whole piece is the interviewers portrayal of how the tank deliveries came to be, and he does not even comment on that as the interviewers cleverly separated that statement from their question. There might be a misunderstanding on what he is saying when he talks about the center of gravity for nato switching over to poland from germany. That is not a statement about german power in nato, but on the fact that germany is no longer where the immediate frontline would be if war broke out between Nato and russia. Poland is the member where Nato expects to be attacked and be able to make a stand. Afaik the baltics are expected to be run over without a chance, but with the idea to retake them within a short timeframe, as a russian attack would be expected as a more or less surprising first strike. There is no shade thrown in that statement. | ||
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maybenexttime
Poland5761 Posts
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{CC}StealthBlue
United States41117 Posts
Russian soldiers are dying in greater numbers in Ukraine this month than at any time since the first week of the invasion, according to Ukrainian data. The Ukrainian data shows 824 Russian soldiers dying per day in February. The figures were highlighted by the UK's Ministry of Defence. The figures cannot be verified - but the UK says the trends are "likely accurate". The increase comes as Ukrainian officials say that Russia has launched a "big offensive". However, the secretary of the National Security and Defence Council of Ukraine (NSDC), Oleksiy Danilov, also said Russia is experiencing "big problems" with the campaign. "Our troops are repulsing [the offensive] very strongly," Mr Danilov said. "The offensive they planned is already taking place, gradually, but it's not the offensive they imagined." Last week, Ukraine's outgoing defence minister, Oleksiy Reznikov, said they were anticipating a new Russian offensive around 24 February - the anniversary of the full-scale invasion. Some of the fiercest fighting has been around Bakhmut in the east of the country. On Sunday, the head of Russia's Wagner mercenary force said the group had seized a settlement near the devastated city. Yevgeny Prigozhin said on Telegram: "Today, the settlement of Krasna Hora was taken by assault detachments of the Wagner PMC." Mr Prigozhin also gave his group credit for the offensive on Bakhmut, downplaying the Russian army's role: "Within a radius of 50 km, plus or minus, there are only Wagner PMC fighters," he wrote. The statement hints at longstanding tensions between the Russian military and Wagner. When the town of Soledar was taken in January, Mr Prigozhin claimed his fighters were in full control there boasted that only his troops took part - a claim the Russian defence ministry questioned. Bakhmut's strategic importance has been questioned, but the prolonged fighting has turned it into a symbolic prize. According to the Ukrainian data, highlighted by the UK, 824 Russian losses a day is more than four times the rate reported in June and July, when around 172 Russian soldiers died each day. The Ukrainian military claims 137,780 Russian military deaths since the full-scale invasion began. The UK's MoD pointed out the recent increase could be due to "a range of factors, including lack of trained personnel, coordination, and resources across the front". Ukraine "also continues to suffer a high attrition rate", the UK said. Russian forces have made little progress in Ukraine since their retreat from the major southern city of Kherson last November. Last month they captured the town of Soledar north of Bakhmut after an intense battle. Capturing Bakhmut could enable Russian forces to press on towards the bigger cities of Kramatorsk and Slovyansk. Ukraine's President Volodymyr Zelensky has appealed to Western countries to hurry sending heavy weaponry to Ukraine to help Ukraine repel Russia's expected offensive. The US agreed last week to send long-range missiles that would enable Ukraine to double its attack range. But President Zelensky wants the West to send fighter jets - saying during a visit to the UK Parliament this week that he was "thanking you all in advance for powerful English planes" Source | ||
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plasmidghost
Belgium16168 Posts
And to add onto that, apparently even more armor and personnel were destroyed in Vuhledar today | ||
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plasmidghost
Belgium16168 Posts
On February 11 2023 18:10 Simberto wrote: Highly depends on what you mean with "underground cities". WW1 fortifications could easily be described as underground cities, and with a stationary situation like this, it is not unlikely that a lot of digging in has happened, leading to similar fortifications. When people say "trench warfare" they assume it means just a hole dug by some people. WW1 trench warfare, especially on the western front, meant km deep lines upon lines of trenches and underground bunkers. Video of one of these underground cities just got posted: | ||
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{CC}StealthBlue
United States41117 Posts
KYIV — As Russia probes Ukraine’s defensive lines ahead of an expected offensive, it might have lost the entire elite 155th naval infantry brigade while storming Vuhledar, a coal-mining town in the Donetsk region. “A large number of enemy forces, including the command staff, were destroyed near Vuhledar and Mariinka in Donetsk Oblast,” Oleksiy Dmytrashkivskyi, head of the united press center of the Tavriskiy District of Ukrainian defense forces, told POLITICO. “In addition, over the past week, the enemy lost about 130 units of equipment, including 36 units of tanks.” Russian forces also were losing 150-300 marines a day near Vuhledar, Dmytrashkivskyi said. Russian tactical failures around Vuhledar have likely further weakened the Russian ultranationalist community’s belief that Moscow’s forces are able to launch a decisive offensive operation, the Institute for the Study of War reported in its latest update. Pro-Kremlin military bloggers have been mourning huge losses and criticizing the Russian command for sending the elite troops in frontal attacks. The Ukrainian marines also published a video of Russian troops panicking and piling up on a battlefield near Vuhledar. “Go make a cemetery! Gosh, the first column went there and blew up, and then the second one went exactly the same route,” Ukrainian artillerymen can be heard saying while watching Russians approaching Vuhledar. “The 155th brigade already had to be restaffed three times. The first time after Irpin and Bucha; the second time they were defeated near Donetsk — they recovered again. And now almost the entire brigade has already been destroyed near Vuhledar,” Dmytrashkivskyi said. Russian military and nationalist community met the defeat near Vuhledar painfully. The Institute for the Study of War reported that recent footage of failed Russian assaults near Vuhledar has pushed some Russian military bloggers to call for public trials against the high-ranking officers as they continue to repeat the same mistakes. The defeat happened only a few days after Russian Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu reported about a “successful offensive near Vuhledar.” The Ukrainian Defense Ministry trolled the Russians by posting a video of a Russian military column being destroyed in the area. Russian former paramilitary commander Igor Girkin, sentenced to life in prison in absentia for the downing of MH17 passenger flight in 2014, has called Russian generals “complete morons, who don’t learn from their own mistakes.” In his Telegram military blog, Girkin, who uses the pseudonym Igor Strelkov, echoed the ongoing criticism of the Russian military community toward the commanders. He confirmed that Russian forces near Vuhledar had to advance in motorized and tank columns along narrow roads and ended up piling up. “Ukrainian artillery shoots exceptionally accurately. More than 30 units of armored vehicles were lost. Dozens of tankmen were killed. Even more marines, special forces, and motorized riflemen died,” Girkin said. “All these losses turned out to be ‘one-sided’ — the Ukrainians shot the attackers like in a shooting gallery.” Girkin pessimistically described the defeat near Vuhledar as the end of the offensive of the Russian army on the entire Donetsk front. Ukrainians are not rushing to celebrate victory, though, as Russian forces continue to storm Ukrainian positions near Vuhledar, Avdiivka and Bakhmut, where Ukrainians are preparing for street fighting. “I wish weapons from our partners would come more quickly, as that would give us the opportunity not only to protect ourselves and hold the attacks but also finally push them out of our territory,” Dmytrashkivskyi said. Source | ||
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plasmidghost
Belgium16168 Posts
And here's more videos from everyone's favorite fuckups, the Russian forces in Vuhledar, with a brilliant new tactic to clear minefields | ||
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Manit0u
Poland17693 Posts
On February 12 2023 05:50 maybenexttime wrote: Did he say that Poland took eight million Ukrainian refugees? ;o That's not even close to the real number (about three, with some 1-1.5 million staying). He said 8 million crossed the border with a few million staying. | ||
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Taelshin
Canada420 Posts
@plasmid no disrespect but the noel links seem awfully one sided. I"m not askin for RU prop but maybe try to dig a bit deeper before you post your twitter people. edit: for the record I've also gone at stealth for his choices and frankly when it's comes to this war they have clearly been partisan so maybe your good to keep relying on noel if that's what you want to hear. Hopefully the war is over sooner rather then later. | ||
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plasmidghost
Belgium16168 Posts
On February 13 2023 14:15 Taelshin wrote: I'd expect a huge number of folks to be fleein, with Ukraines pop 8 million feels like a lot but its hard to say. @plasmid no disrespect but the noel links seem awfully one sided. I"m not askin for RU prop but maybe try to dig a bit deeper before you post your twitter people. edit: for the record I've also gone at stealth for his choices and frankly when it's comes to this war they have clearly been partisan so maybe your good to keep relying on noel if that's what you want to hear. Hopefully the war is over sooner rather then later. You're free to post anything you find I don't post Russian sources because they're not trustworthy. Right now, the pro-Russian accounts are saying Ukraine launched a Tochka-U missile at Mariupol that was shot down by Russian Air defenses. The Tochka-U is a ballistic missile and Russia does not have the capability to shoot them down outside of Moscow | ||
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Ardias
Russian Federation618 Posts
On February 13 2023 16:49 plasmidghost wrote: You're free to post anything you find I don't post Russian sources because they're not trustworthy. Right now, the pro-Russian accounts are saying Ukraine launched a Tochka-U missile at Mariupol that was shot down by Russian Air defenses. The Tochka-U is a ballistic missile and Russia does not have the capability to shoot them down outside of Moscow https://twitter.com/Trollstoy88/status/1624907661094289408 You misunderstand the difference between short-range ballistic missiles and intercontinental ballistic missiles (ICBM). The only similarity they have is their flight trajectory. "Capability to shoot them down in Moscow" is about ICBMs. More short-range missiles have much less mass and velocity, so they are able to be shot down by regular modern heavy SAM like S-300 and Patriot. Here is Center for Strategic and International Studies analysis of S-300 missile system, which is core element of both Russian and Ukrainian air defence. https://missilethreat.csis.org/defsys/s-300/ "Derived from the S-300P is the S-300V, also known as the SA-23A Gladiator and the SA-23B Giant, which is equipped with an anti-ballistic missile capability, and is similar in several respects to the U.S. Patriot Advanced Capability-2 (PAC-2)." "The S-300V, also known as the SA-23a Gladiator and the SA-23b Giant, was developed to add a ballistic missile defense capability to the S-300P system. It entered service in phases, with some elements integrated into existing air defense systems in 1983. The 9M83 missile entered production in 1986, and full deployment of the system was reached by 1988.13" "The S-300V uses 9M83 and 9M82 missiles to target ballistic warheads across a 40 km radius." Also if we are talking about credibility of sources - here are some Ukrainian news outlets claiming shooting down Tochka-U, one of them - that it was shot down with a Stinger(!), which doesn't have nowhere near of a capability to lock down on ballistic missile and intercept it in time, due to the limited detection and locking capacity as well as range, speed and power of the missile. https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2022/03/19/7332788/ https://www.ukrinform.net/rubric-ato/3452807-tochkau-missile-launched-by-russia-from-belarus-shot-down-in-chernihiv-region.html | ||
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Manit0u
Poland17693 Posts
On February 13 2023 14:15 Taelshin wrote: I'd expect a huge number of folks to be fleein, with Ukraines pop 8 million feels like a lot but its hard to say. 8 million is about 20% of their population. It is a significant number but also pretty big chunks of their country have been occupied or rendered inhospitable so I wouldn't dismiss it. I guess quite a few of those people didn't really want to flee but if entire cities are being leveled Ukraine simply has no place for them to live, especially during winter. | ||
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Gorsameth
Netherlands22131 Posts
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warding
Portugal2395 Posts
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{CC}StealthBlue
United States41117 Posts
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plasmidghost
Belgium16168 Posts
On February 13 2023 18:18 Ardias wrote: You misunderstand the difference between short-range ballistic missiles and intercontinental ballistic missiles (ICBM). The only similarity they have is their flight trajectory. "Capability to shoot them down in Moscow" is about ICBMs. More short-range missiles have much less mass and velocity, so they are able to be shot down by regular modern heavy SAM like S-300 and Patriot. Here is Center for Strategic and International Studies analysis of S-300 missile system, which is core element of both Russian and Ukrainian air defence. https://missilethreat.csis.org/defsys/s-300/ "Derived from the S-300P is the S-300V, also known as the SA-23A Gladiator and the SA-23B Giant, which is equipped with an anti-ballistic missile capability, and is similar in several respects to the U.S. Patriot Advanced Capability-2 (PAC-2)." "The S-300V, also known as the SA-23a Gladiator and the SA-23b Giant, was developed to add a ballistic missile defense capability to the S-300P system. It entered service in phases, with some elements integrated into existing air defense systems in 1983. The 9M83 missile entered production in 1986, and full deployment of the system was reached by 1988.13" "The S-300V uses 9M83 and 9M82 missiles to target ballistic warheads across a 40 km radius." Also if we are talking about credibility of sources - here are some Ukrainian news outlets claiming shooting down Tochka-U, one of them - that it was shot down with a Stinger(!), which doesn't have nowhere near of a capability to lock down on ballistic missile and intercept it in time, due to the limited detection and locking capacity as well as range, speed and power of the missile. https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2022/03/19/7332788/ https://www.ukrinform.net/rubric-ato/3452807-tochkau-missile-launched-by-russia-from-belarus-shot-down-in-chernihiv-region.html Well shit, I learned a lot new today. Thank you for correcting me | ||
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