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Russo-Ukrainian War Thread - Page 34

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NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets.

Your supporting statement should always come BEFORE you provide the source.
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
Last Edited: 2022-03-06 16:06:03
March 06 2022 16:05 GMT
#661
10 to 1 this has probably already been guaranteed. because the last thing the US would want is for one of the nearest NATO country to Russia to be weakened but at the same time wanting NATO countries to supply Ukraine as fast as possible.

"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
Sent.
Profile Joined June 2012
Poland9331 Posts
Last Edited: 2022-03-06 16:24:21
March 06 2022 16:23 GMT
#662
Yeah but the questions are what kind of American junk (probably some old f-16s) we're getting in exchange for that Soviet junk, and who's going pay for the difference in value. The US might not want to bear the whole cost.

I hope those MiGs are actually serviceable. We've spent the last two or three decades preparing to move on to American equipment, so there's a high chance the maintenance of those jets was significantly neglected.
You're now breathing manually
KwarK
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States44382 Posts
March 06 2022 16:26 GMT
#663
The US quite likes giving away military hardware. It is strategically necessary to keep buying new hardware to prop up the businesses that make it. If you stop buying tanks because you're not losing tanks then you won't be able to buy new ones in the future if you need them. They keep strategic military industries on life support so that they can be scaled up if ever there comes a time where you need to replace a lot of tanks very quickly (like someone is destroying them). The problem is you end up overflowing with hardware nobody wants. That's why they give it away to the police, other countries, anyone who can take it. They give aid in the form of $s that must be spent with US contractors. They do anything they can to get the hardware moved.
ModeratorThe angels have the phone box
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
March 06 2022 16:29 GMT
#664
Russia has started rationing food.

MOSCOW — Retailers in Russia will limit sales of essential foodstuffs to limit black market speculation and ensure affordability, the government says, as sanctions imposed over Moscow’s military incursion into Ukraine began to bite.

The trade and industry ministry says there have been cases where essential foodstuffs had been purchased “in a volume clearly larger than necessary for private consumption (up to several tons) for subsequent resale.”

Trade organizations representing retailers had proposed retailers be allowed to limit the volume of specific goods sold to individuals at any one time, the ministry’s statement says.

“The Ministry of Industry and Trade and the Ministry of Agriculture supported the initiative of trade organizations,” the release says, noting that the organizations themselves would work out the policy.

Essential goods, whose prices are subject to state controls, include bread, rice, flour, eggs and selected meats and dairy products among others.

Moscow has been hit with a damaging package of financial and cultural penalties by Western countries since the Kremlin initiated what it has called “a special military operation” in neighboring Ukraine on February 24.


Source
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
Starlightsun
Profile Blog Joined June 2016
United States1405 Posts
March 06 2022 17:15 GMT
#665
Are the roads going to turn to slush when the snow starts to thaw?
Yurie
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
12175 Posts
Last Edited: 2022-03-06 17:28:09
March 06 2022 17:25 GMT
#666
On March 07 2022 02:15 Starlightsun wrote:
Are the roads going to turn to slush when the snow starts to thaw?


Saw some pictures of intentional flooding near Kyiv to worsen the mud. Not sure how accurate it is since it is a Reddit post. So that is part of the strategy.
https://www.reddit.com/r/UkrainianConflict/comments/t7rf3v/ukrainians_have_decided_to_flood_parts_around/

Also already seen a lot of pictures of vehicles stuck in mud, so it seems the ground isn't that frozen even if you have snow.
Starlightsun
Profile Blog Joined June 2016
United States1405 Posts
March 06 2022 17:30 GMT
#667
Wow that's wild.
Vindicare605
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
United States16126 Posts
March 06 2022 17:53 GMT
#668
On March 07 2022 01:26 KwarK wrote:
The US quite likes giving away military hardware. It is strategically necessary to keep buying new hardware to prop up the businesses that make it. If you stop buying tanks because you're not losing tanks then you won't be able to buy new ones in the future if you need them. They keep strategic military industries on life support so that they can be scaled up if ever there comes a time where you need to replace a lot of tanks very quickly (like someone is destroying them). The problem is you end up overflowing with hardware nobody wants. That's why they give it away to the police, other countries, anyone who can take it. They give aid in the form of $s that must be spent with US contractors. They do anything they can to get the hardware moved.


Yea I wouldn't worry about that. We have FLEETS of F-15s and 16's and 18's we'd be happy to give to Poland. They're literally just sitting out on Desert Yards in case we needed to mobilize them for something.

I know Poland would probably love to get some F-35's but those are trickier since they've gone way past their promised development date and there's quite a long line of allies trying to get some.
aka: KTVindicare the Geeky Bartender
JimmiC
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
Canada22817 Posts
March 06 2022 18:01 GMT
#669
--- Nuked ---
PoulsenB
Profile Joined June 2011
Poland7762 Posts
March 06 2022 18:17 GMT
#670
Green light given by the US for NATO (most probably Poland) to send jets to Ukraine. I don't know how to feel about this, could be used as a pretense by Putin to do something very stupid.

IdrA fan forever <3 || the clueless one || Marci must be protected at all costs
Ciaus_Dronu
Profile Joined June 2017
South Africa1848 Posts
Last Edited: 2022-03-06 18:26:11
March 06 2022 18:25 GMT
#671
This Sunday alone, over 4300 anti-war protestors have been arrested in Russia, across a handful of different cities:


LONDON, March 6 (Reuters) - Police detained more than 4,300 people on Sunday at Russia-wide protests against President Vladimir Putin's invasion of Ukraine, according to an independent protest monitoring group.

Thousands of protesters chanted "No to war!" and "Shame on you!", according to videos posted on social media by opposition activists and bloggers.

Dozens of protesters in the Urals city of Yekaterinburg were shown being detained. One protester there was shown being beaten on the ground by police in riot gear. A mural in the city showing President Vladimir Putin was defaced.

Reuters was unable to independently verify the footage and photographs on social media. Russia's interior ministry said earlier that police had detained around 3,500 people, including 1,700 in Moscow, 750 in St Petersburg and 1,061 in other cities.

The interior ministry said 5,200 people had taken part in the protests. The OVD-Info protest monitoring group said it had documented the detention of at least 4,366 people in 56 different cities.


www.reuters.com
Zambrah
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
United States7393 Posts
Last Edited: 2022-03-06 18:29:32
March 06 2022 18:26 GMT
#672
I dunno, at this point I feel like if Putin wants to do something stupid he’ll make up a reason, or repurpose an existing action for the reason, not that I’m confident we can just escalate as much as we like, and every increase in action is that little bit scarier.

At this point I may be more concerned about a new bipolar Cold War type shit world, the more authoritarian countries vs. the capitalist-y countries. I’m not confident that the capitalist-y side comes out ahead this time.
Incremental change is the Democrat version of Trickle Down economics.
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
March 06 2022 18:34 GMT
#673
Seems negotiations have progressed, somewhat.

One of Ukraine’s negotiators in ceasefire talks with Russia says there has been a perceptible shift on the Russian side, after 10 days of warfare that have seen Ukraine put up unexpectedly fierce resistance.

Mykhailo Podolyak, a top aide to President Volodymyr Zelensky, also called again for a NATO no-fly zone over Ukraine, a step that has been rejected by the 30-country alliance. Russian President Vladimir Putin warned on Saturday that any countries that tried to impose a no-fly zone would be considered “participants of the military conflict.”

Mr. Podolyak said that while the Russian side hadn’t yet altered its demands for a Ukrainian capitulation, he sensed that its attitude was shifting as the war and unprecedented Western sanctions took their toll.

“At the very start of the war, they were insisting on total domination. They weren’t expecting that Ukraine would deliver such severe resistance,” he said in an interview on Saturday. “They are starting to realize the real price of war only now. And now we are starting to have constructive negotiations.”

Mr. Podolyak made the comments after taking part in two rounds of talks with Russian officials at the Ukraine-Belarus border over the past week. He said a third negotiating session would happen “in the next day or two.”

He said that the scale of Russia’s military operation – 15 of 24 Ukrainian oblasts, or regions, have been attacked – meant that Russian officials had taken some time to develop a real understanding of the fact that the invasion was proceeding more slowly than expected, and that the Russian military was sustaining heavy losses.

“They have lost massive amounts of equipment and manpower. Sanctions like we’ve never seen before are collapsing their economy. Their country has become an outlaw on the international scene and their propaganda doesn’t work at all,” Mr. Podolyak said, speaking inside a heavily guarded government building that was surrounded with cement-and-sandbags fortifications in the western Ukrainian city of Lviv.

The political adviser was dressed in a military green sweatshirt and wore a pistol on his belt. Several times during the 30-minute interview, he stood up from his chair to peek out through vertical blinds at the city below.

Mr. Podolyak said that while the two sides had agreed not to publicly discuss details of the negotiations, Ukraine’s goals for the talks remained the same: an immediate ceasefire, security guarantees that Ukraine won’t be attacked again, and “significant” compensation for the loss of civilian life and the damage to Ukrainian cities. Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov said Saturday that the Russian demands included the disarmament of Ukraine and the recognition of Crimea – which Russia seized and annexed in 2014 – as Russian territory.

Ukraine claims to have inflicted massive losses on the Russian military through 10 days of war, including 10,000 dead soldiers and hundreds of destroyed tanks. The figures, if accurate, would represent a stunning setback for the Russian military. By comparison, the Soviet Union acknowledged 15,000 deaths during its 10-year war in Afghanistan during the 1980s.

According to Russian state media, 498 soldiers had been killed in Ukraine as of Wednesday.

Ukraine’s military losses have been estimated at 1,500 troops. More than 2,000 civilians have reportedly been killed as Russia’s air force and cruise missiles have repeatedly struck civilian neighbourhoods and critical infrastructure.

The talks led to an agreement on a temporary ceasefire that would have allowed civilians to leave the besieged eastern Ukrainian cities of Mariupol and Volnovakha on Saturday. The ceasefire never happened, but Mr. Podolyak said he believes the problem was one of poor discipline among Russian troops.

“We appointed the locations for civilians to gather to be evacuated. Unfortunately, the Russian Federation can’t effectively control their soldiers on the ground, who continued shelling the evacuation routes. We are actively working on this now,” he said. “It could also be bad intentions … but I mostly believe it was bad discipline and bad communications with the forces on the ground.”

Mr. Podolyak also repeated Mr. Zelensky’s demands for NATO to provide air cover to Ukrainian civilians. In an angry speech on Friday following a NATO meeting at which the idea of a no-fly zone was formally rejected, Mr. Zelensky told the alliance that “all the people who will die from this day will die because of you, as well.”

Mr. Podolyak said Mr. Zelensky was reflecting the opinion of all Ukrainians. “Of course, we are extremely irritated because closing the sky would drastically change the pattern of this war,” he said. “A no-fly zone means that Russia loses its tactical advantages, and peace negotiations would immediately go into another framework. Most importantly, it would stop the killing of civilians, including children.”

While Western countries say they’re worried that sending NATO planes into action over Ukraine would provoke a wider war, Mr. Podolyak argued that a global conflict had already begun – and that the only question was whether it would be fought now in Ukraine, or later somewhere else in Europe. He said a no-fly zone “would stop the development of World War Three.”


Source
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
aseq
Profile Joined January 2003
Netherlands4020 Posts
March 06 2022 18:36 GMT
#674
On March 07 2022 03:17 PoulsenB wrote:
Green light given by the US for NATO (most probably Poland) to send jets to Ukraine. I don't know how to feel about this, could be used as a pretense by Putin to do something very stupid.

https://twitter.com/disclosetv/status/1500523777335209987


I don't understand why this has to be posted publicly. Is it to score 'helping hand' points as a government? Why not keep this under the radar, Russians don't need this info either...
JimmiC
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
Canada22817 Posts
March 06 2022 18:46 GMT
#675
--- Nuked ---
Gorsameth
Profile Joined April 2010
Netherlands22662 Posts
March 06 2022 18:46 GMT
#676
On March 07 2022 03:36 aseq wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 07 2022 03:17 PoulsenB wrote:
Green light given by the US for NATO (most probably Poland) to send jets to Ukraine. I don't know how to feel about this, could be used as a pretense by Putin to do something very stupid.

https://twitter.com/disclosetv/status/1500523777335209987


I don't understand why this has to be posted publicly. Is it to score 'helping hand' points as a government? Why not keep this under the radar, Russians don't need this info either...
Because its unlikely they could organise something like the transfer of fighters without Russia finding out anywhere so there is no point keeping it a secret, might aswell score some points while your at it.
It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death
RenSC2
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
United States1098 Posts
March 06 2022 18:51 GMT
#677
I would imagine that having Russian warplanes shot down by Polish warplanes would provoke Russia to aggression against Poland as well. If it's public that the Polish warplanes are now officially Ukrainian warplanes, it keeps the conflict officially between Russia and Ukraine.
Playing better than standard requires deviation. This divergence usually results in sub-standard play.
Manit0u
Profile Blog Joined August 2004
Poland17851 Posts
Last Edited: 2022-03-06 18:51:47
March 06 2022 18:51 GMT
#678
On March 07 2022 03:46 Gorsameth wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 07 2022 03:36 aseq wrote:
On March 07 2022 03:17 PoulsenB wrote:
Green light given by the US for NATO (most probably Poland) to send jets to Ukraine. I don't know how to feel about this, could be used as a pretense by Putin to do something very stupid.

https://twitter.com/disclosetv/status/1500523777335209987


I don't understand why this has to be posted publicly. Is it to score 'helping hand' points as a government? Why not keep this under the radar, Russians don't need this info either...
Because its unlikely they could organise something like the transfer of fighters without Russia finding out anywhere so there is no point keeping it a secret, might aswell score some points while your at it.


It's still a tough deal for Poland. On one hand you get a deal with NATO that'll replace your older jets with newer stuff. On the other you kind of paint a bullseye on your forehead.
Time is precious. Waste it wisely.
KwarK
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States44382 Posts
March 06 2022 19:09 GMT
#679
On March 07 2022 03:51 Manit0u wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 07 2022 03:46 Gorsameth wrote:
On March 07 2022 03:36 aseq wrote:
On March 07 2022 03:17 PoulsenB wrote:
Green light given by the US for NATO (most probably Poland) to send jets to Ukraine. I don't know how to feel about this, could be used as a pretense by Putin to do something very stupid.

https://twitter.com/disclosetv/status/1500523777335209987


I don't understand why this has to be posted publicly. Is it to score 'helping hand' points as a government? Why not keep this under the radar, Russians don't need this info either...
Because its unlikely they could organise something like the transfer of fighters without Russia finding out anywhere so there is no point keeping it a secret, might aswell score some points while your at it.


It's still a tough deal for Poland. On one hand you get a deal with NATO that'll replace your older jets with newer stuff. On the other you kind of paint a bullseye on your forehead.

Poland is under the NATO aegis. It is 100% safe.
ModeratorThe angels have the phone box
Dav1oN
Profile Joined January 2012
Ukraine3164 Posts
Last Edited: 2022-03-06 20:31:05
March 06 2022 19:18 GMT
#680
Hey guys, just a quick update on my situation. We're safe in a calm place in western Ukraine at the moment, it was hell of a ride for my family & pets, 30 hours train journey in a stacked vagon with many people including foreigners, w/o complete understanding where we should go. With the help of friends, relatives, people with whom i worked previously and impressive support by TL members/community we made it out. Right now we are trying to recover at least physically, since mentally it's still very hard to accept the reality.

It's a lovely and beautiful place near montain Hoverla (Bukovel region), I wish the obstacles were different to enjoy the local nature and culture fully.

Unfortunately our parents decided to stay in Kharkiv to take care of grandmothers as they are very old and hardly could be transported during such awful times, as our main railroad station (Pivdenniy vokzal) is overcrowded with frightened people trying to evacuate even more than before. At least our parents moved to my family apartment as it's safer in comparison to Saltivka district which is nearly leveled by now due to massive shelling. Plus there are a bunch of neighbours and a small community, so they should feel a bit safer out there. Hoping to see them again sooner rather than later.

Mentally I already feel myself like a refugee, not a pleasant feeling, but better than alternatives. Still waking up during the night due to specific sounds as it reminds me shelling/airstrikes. With time it will pass.

On a positive side, Ukraine is united as never before and everyone is trying to help each other, plus we feel the support from the West and we have many hopes for the future. People are dreaming to come back to a normal life and to rebuild our cities. We're not going to give up and we will work hard to restore everything that was lost. We are dreaming to rebuild our country for the best of humanity!
In memory of Geoff "iNcontroL" Robinson 11.09.1985 - 21.07.2019 A tribute to incredible man, embodiment of joy, esports titan, starcraft community pillar all in one. You will always be remembered!
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