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Russo-Ukrainian War Thread - Page 261

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NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets.

Your supporting statement should always come BEFORE you provide the source.
FeatherPlanes
Profile Joined June 2022
45 Posts
Last Edited: 2022-10-03 08:24:43
October 03 2022 08:12 GMT
#5201
Yeah there's plenty of people who lived during the USSR who do wish it would come back. But it depends on where you live and who you are. If you were an honest to god simple person, it would probably be a simple but decent enough life. The Khrushchyovka, its focus on community and the fact everything was within walking distance was and still can be a really inspired symbol of good urban planning. Even if the building quality in all of them are pretty bad by modern 2022 building standards.

The switch to capitalistic systems really did a number of a lot of medium sized Eastern European cities that did business during the heyday of the USSR. Its completely understandable why a lot of older folks would want the USSR back because life was actually better for them back then. The USSR kind of tried to provide while many of the corrupt Democratic systems that took over do not even try.

The problem with viewing the USSR with nostalgia is that the USSR was truly moribund past the 1970s because they were truly never able to fix rampant corruption issues top to bottom. Their consistently awful industrial and agricultural output prevented the USSR from being anything but a petrol state - this is exactly the same problem the Russian Federation has except even worse because Putin has purposely invited the Dutch Disease and has done nothing to fix it.

They really couldn't provide for their citizens over time and that is best reflected in the notably high spike in infant mortality starting from the 1970s, which they ended up concealing from the mid-1970s onwards. But the important thing to note is that this spike wasn't even across the entirety of the USSR as there's a fair bit of evidence to suggest it was the minorities (i.e. the same people Putin is press ganging heavily and throwing to the wolves) and those in places of little importance that took just all the heat from Soviet austerity so to speak.

The declining living standards combined with the fact it was spending close to 20% of its GDP on the military just to maintain and hold its territories forced its breakup - the USA is spending around 3% right now for reference. After Afghanistan and the numerous uprisings across Eastern Europe, it ended as an Empire that couldn't justify its own existence much like the Western Roman Empire.
r00ty
Profile Joined November 2010
Germany1080 Posts
October 03 2022 08:15 GMT
#5202
Is Russia investigating the Nordstream leaks? I mean it's their property as well.

Unfortunately most NATO vessels have stopped broadcasting their AIS, you can't see them on shipping radar sites anymore. German navy and coastguard vessels have disappeared, but they are there.
But not everybody stopped, you can see the Danes are investigating the southern leak and the Swedes the northern one since yesterday.
Salazarz
Profile Blog Joined April 2012
Korea (South)2591 Posts
October 03 2022 09:20 GMT
#5203
On October 03 2022 17:09 maybenexttime wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 03 2022 16:07 Salazarz wrote:
Just about all the criticisms of Soviet Union I hear these days, on this site as well as places like reddit and even more 'serious' takes by journalists / academics usually completely ignore wider geopolitical context and focus on specific aspects of USSR that they deem 'bad', which is reductionist and frankly stupid.

My personal favorite is the constant decrying of the evil imperialist Soviet Union chopping up Poland alongside the Nazis that totally makes them same as Hitler in the eyes of the Polish people; when Poland itself made multiple landgrabs of its own during the interwar period and had a policy of forced 'Polonization' for its minorities that was by all accounts more oppressive than anything comparable done by Russians in the Soviet Union. Lithuanians in particular seem weirdly okay with the fact that Poland occupied key parts of Lithuania including their capital Vilnius following a sham referendum no better than the ones just carried out by Putin days ago, it's only the evil imperialist Soviet Union occupation that they're angry about, nevermind that a good third of their country's population would have grown up as Poles instead if not for that. And let's not forget Poland's role in the Sudeten crisis, where they openly supported Germany, made any notion of a Stalin-proposed Soviet-Czechoslovakia defense treaty an impossibility, and carried out another landgrab of their own when Czechoslovakia was being cut to pieces. But no, none of that matters; it's only the evil imperialist Soviet Union that we talk about, and their demonic oppression of poor, freedom-loving Polish people.

Also, saying that USSR was a 'disaster' for its people is pretty weird. Disaster compared to what? Quality of life in USSR was undeniably better than it was in Tzarist Russia. Would it be better with other leaders / government types? Maybe, maybe not -- who the fuck knows. After the revolution, Russia was a backwater mess, riddled with debts and internal strife. Whatever government took charge, would have a massive mountain to climb out of that hole. During the Cold War era, Soviet Union was, for the most part, an okay place to live. The US was obviously much more prosperous, but I think people forget just how poor and undeveloped most of the world was during that time, and even the 'good' places had plenty of harsh downturns: look up Sweden in the 70s, for example. Economics aside, the reason many older people 'miss' Soviet Union is due to a very different mentality. There was less focus on work as a means to make money and more focus on meaning and contributing to the society, which is something that modern world could use. People love to talk about NKVD and KGB, the gulags, the lack of products, etc; often quoting Soviet-era jokes like that's evidence of the points they're making. The truth is people don't usually make jokes about things that are a true danger to themselves or their families. People joked about the KGB and the empty grocery store shelves because for the most part, that wasn't something that would ever seriously bother them or anyone they personally know.

Soviet Union had plenty of flaws, but it was also a reasonably functioning society that had made a lot of positive contributions to the world. Let's not forget that many pro-working class movements internationally gained traction and concessions from their governments due to fear of communist uprisings in Western capitalist countries; the Soviets' massive contributions to sciences; or indeed their role in defeating Nazi Germany, a monster largely born out of inept diplomatic policies of the Western Allies. As it usually is, the truth isn't just black and white.

In fact, I'm fairly certain that one of the biggest reasons even the younger, educated folks in Russia put up with Putin's bullshit is because of the absolutely ridiculous anti-Russian, anti-USSR rhetoric. His talk about the West being against Russia wouldn't sound particularly unhinged to actual Russian people, given the sort of shit people say about Russians / Soviet Union on a daily basis nowadays, or even before the war started.

TIL that not having universities teach in Ukrainian is as bad as murdering millions of people. You put a lot of effort into that rant, I'll give you that.


Poland's policies in the occupied territories were just a smidgeon worse than 'not having universities teach in Ukrainian.'

Mikau313
Profile Joined January 2021
Netherlands230 Posts
October 03 2022 09:30 GMT
#5204
So how many hospitals did they bomb? How many children did they rape to death?
maybenexttime
Profile Blog Joined November 2006
Poland5837 Posts
October 03 2022 09:41 GMT
#5205
On October 03 2022 18:20 Salazarz wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 03 2022 17:09 maybenexttime wrote:
On October 03 2022 16:07 Salazarz wrote:
Just about all the criticisms of Soviet Union I hear these days, on this site as well as places like reddit and even more 'serious' takes by journalists / academics usually completely ignore wider geopolitical context and focus on specific aspects of USSR that they deem 'bad', which is reductionist and frankly stupid.

My personal favorite is the constant decrying of the evil imperialist Soviet Union chopping up Poland alongside the Nazis that totally makes them same as Hitler in the eyes of the Polish people; when Poland itself made multiple landgrabs of its own during the interwar period and had a policy of forced 'Polonization' for its minorities that was by all accounts more oppressive than anything comparable done by Russians in the Soviet Union. Lithuanians in particular seem weirdly okay with the fact that Poland occupied key parts of Lithuania including their capital Vilnius following a sham referendum no better than the ones just carried out by Putin days ago, it's only the evil imperialist Soviet Union occupation that they're angry about, nevermind that a good third of their country's population would have grown up as Poles instead if not for that. And let's not forget Poland's role in the Sudeten crisis, where they openly supported Germany, made any notion of a Stalin-proposed Soviet-Czechoslovakia defense treaty an impossibility, and carried out another landgrab of their own when Czechoslovakia was being cut to pieces. But no, none of that matters; it's only the evil imperialist Soviet Union that we talk about, and their demonic oppression of poor, freedom-loving Polish people.

Also, saying that USSR was a 'disaster' for its people is pretty weird. Disaster compared to what? Quality of life in USSR was undeniably better than it was in Tzarist Russia. Would it be better with other leaders / government types? Maybe, maybe not -- who the fuck knows. After the revolution, Russia was a backwater mess, riddled with debts and internal strife. Whatever government took charge, would have a massive mountain to climb out of that hole. During the Cold War era, Soviet Union was, for the most part, an okay place to live. The US was obviously much more prosperous, but I think people forget just how poor and undeveloped most of the world was during that time, and even the 'good' places had plenty of harsh downturns: look up Sweden in the 70s, for example. Economics aside, the reason many older people 'miss' Soviet Union is due to a very different mentality. There was less focus on work as a means to make money and more focus on meaning and contributing to the society, which is something that modern world could use. People love to talk about NKVD and KGB, the gulags, the lack of products, etc; often quoting Soviet-era jokes like that's evidence of the points they're making. The truth is people don't usually make jokes about things that are a true danger to themselves or their families. People joked about the KGB and the empty grocery store shelves because for the most part, that wasn't something that would ever seriously bother them or anyone they personally know.

Soviet Union had plenty of flaws, but it was also a reasonably functioning society that had made a lot of positive contributions to the world. Let's not forget that many pro-working class movements internationally gained traction and concessions from their governments due to fear of communist uprisings in Western capitalist countries; the Soviets' massive contributions to sciences; or indeed their role in defeating Nazi Germany, a monster largely born out of inept diplomatic policies of the Western Allies. As it usually is, the truth isn't just black and white.

In fact, I'm fairly certain that one of the biggest reasons even the younger, educated folks in Russia put up with Putin's bullshit is because of the absolutely ridiculous anti-Russian, anti-USSR rhetoric. His talk about the West being against Russia wouldn't sound particularly unhinged to actual Russian people, given the sort of shit people say about Russians / Soviet Union on a daily basis nowadays, or even before the war started.

TIL that not having universities teach in Ukrainian is as bad as murdering millions of people. You put a lot of effort into that rant, I'll give you that.


Poland's policies in the occupied territories were just a smidgeon worse than 'not having universities teach in Ukrainian.'


First of all, "occupied territories"? Second of all, care to elaborate? Are you sure they were even remotely comparable to the Soviet Union mass murdering 20% of its Polish population? Or starving to death millions of Ukrainians in modern Eastern Ukraine and repopulating the area with ethnic Russians? Or ethnically cleansing Crimea from its Tatar population? I could go on.
Salazarz
Profile Blog Joined April 2012
Korea (South)2591 Posts
October 03 2022 09:50 GMT
#5206
On October 03 2022 16:45 gobbledydook wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 03 2022 16:07 Salazarz wrote:
Just about all the criticisms of Soviet Union I hear these days, on this site as well as places like reddit and even more 'serious' takes by journalists / academics usually completely ignore wider geopolitical context and focus on specific aspects of USSR that they deem 'bad', which is reductionist and frankly stupid.

My personal favorite is the constant decrying of the evil imperialist Soviet Union chopping up Poland alongside the Nazis that totally makes them same as Hitler in the eyes of the Polish people; when Poland itself made multiple landgrabs of its own during the interwar period and had a policy of forced 'Polonization' for its minorities that was by all accounts more oppressive than anything comparable done by Russians in the Soviet Union. Lithuanians in particular seem weirdly okay with the fact that Poland occupied key parts of Lithuania including their capital Vilnius following a sham referendum no better than the ones just carried out by Putin days ago, it's only the evil imperialist Soviet Union occupation that they're angry about, nevermind that a good third of their country's population would have grown up as Poles instead if not for that. And let's not forget Poland's role in the Sudeten crisis, where they openly supported Germany, made any notion of a Stalin-proposed Soviet-Czechoslovakia defense treaty an impossibility, and carried out another landgrab of their own when Czechoslovakia was being cut to pieces. But no, none of that matters; it's only the evil imperialist Soviet Union that we talk about, and their demonic oppression of poor, freedom-loving Polish people.

Also, saying that USSR was a 'disaster' for its people is pretty weird. Disaster compared to what? Quality of life in USSR was undeniably better than it was in Tzarist Russia. Would it be better with other leaders / government types? Maybe, maybe not -- who the fuck knows. After the revolution, Russia was a backwater mess, riddled with debts and internal strife. Whatever government took charge, would have a massive mountain to climb out of that hole. During the Cold War era, Soviet Union was, for the most part, an okay place to live. The US was obviously much more prosperous, but I think people forget just how poor and undeveloped most of the world was during that time, and even the 'good' places had plenty of harsh downturns: look up Sweden in the 70s, for example. Economics aside, the reason many older people 'miss' Soviet Union is due to a very different mentality. There was less focus on work as a means to make money and more focus on meaning and contributing to the society, which is something that modern world could use. People love to talk about NKVD and KGB, the gulags, the lack of products, etc; often quoting Soviet-era jokes like that's evidence of the points they're making. The truth is people don't usually make jokes about things that are a true danger to themselves or their families. People joked about the KGB and the empty grocery store shelves because for the most part, that wasn't something that would ever seriously bother them or anyone they personally know.

Soviet Union had plenty of flaws, but it was also a reasonably functioning society that had made a lot of positive contributions to the world. Let's not forget that many pro-working class movements internationally gained traction and concessions from their governments due to fear of communist uprisings in Western capitalist countries; the Soviets' massive contributions to sciences; or indeed their role in defeating Nazi Germany, a monster largely born out of inept diplomatic policies of the Western Allies. As it usually is, the truth isn't just black and white.

In fact, I'm fairly certain that one of the biggest reasons even the younger, educated folks in Russia put up with Putin's bullshit is because of the absolutely ridiculous anti-Russian, anti-USSR rhetoric. His talk about the West being against Russia wouldn't sound particularly unhinged to actual Russian people, given the sort of shit people say about Russians / Soviet Union on a daily basis nowadays, or even before the war started.


That's a roundabout way of saying the Soviet Union was good if we ignore all the bad things about it.


No, that's a way of saying that trying to label countries as 'good' or 'bad' is pointless and you have to consider circumstances as to why they develop in a certain way, and what the alternatives might be before making blanket statements like that. Also, holding everyone to the same standard would be helpful, ie if we're condemning Holodomor (which we should, no question about that), we should probably also condemn the Bengal famine, same goes for 'just not having universities teach in Ukrainian' and Sovietization policies and so on.
maybenexttime
Profile Blog Joined November 2006
Poland5837 Posts
October 03 2022 09:59 GMT
#5207
Yes, taking away food from starving people at gunpoint and forcing them to cannibalize one another is totally comparable to Britain's policies potentially exacerbating an existing crisis.

And what silly excuses do you have for the Soviet Union deporting about one million Polish people to Siberia, causing hundreds of thousands of deaths? ;-)
zatic
Profile Blog Joined September 2007
Zurich15366 Posts
October 03 2022 10:01 GMT
#5208
It's also all off topic to Russia's most recent invasion on Ukraine.
ModeratorI know Teamliquid is known as a massive building
Salazarz
Profile Blog Joined April 2012
Korea (South)2591 Posts
Last Edited: 2022-10-03 10:06:16
October 03 2022 10:03 GMT
#5209
On October 03 2022 18:41 maybenexttime wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 03 2022 18:20 Salazarz wrote:
On October 03 2022 17:09 maybenexttime wrote:
On October 03 2022 16:07 Salazarz wrote:
Just about all the criticisms of Soviet Union I hear these days, on this site as well as places like reddit and even more 'serious' takes by journalists / academics usually completely ignore wider geopolitical context and focus on specific aspects of USSR that they deem 'bad', which is reductionist and frankly stupid.

My personal favorite is the constant decrying of the evil imperialist Soviet Union chopping up Poland alongside the Nazis that totally makes them same as Hitler in the eyes of the Polish people; when Poland itself made multiple landgrabs of its own during the interwar period and had a policy of forced 'Polonization' for its minorities that was by all accounts more oppressive than anything comparable done by Russians in the Soviet Union. Lithuanians in particular seem weirdly okay with the fact that Poland occupied key parts of Lithuania including their capital Vilnius following a sham referendum no better than the ones just carried out by Putin days ago, it's only the evil imperialist Soviet Union occupation that they're angry about, nevermind that a good third of their country's population would have grown up as Poles instead if not for that. And let's not forget Poland's role in the Sudeten crisis, where they openly supported Germany, made any notion of a Stalin-proposed Soviet-Czechoslovakia defense treaty an impossibility, and carried out another landgrab of their own when Czechoslovakia was being cut to pieces. But no, none of that matters; it's only the evil imperialist Soviet Union that we talk about, and their demonic oppression of poor, freedom-loving Polish people.

Also, saying that USSR was a 'disaster' for its people is pretty weird. Disaster compared to what? Quality of life in USSR was undeniably better than it was in Tzarist Russia. Would it be better with other leaders / government types? Maybe, maybe not -- who the fuck knows. After the revolution, Russia was a backwater mess, riddled with debts and internal strife. Whatever government took charge, would have a massive mountain to climb out of that hole. During the Cold War era, Soviet Union was, for the most part, an okay place to live. The US was obviously much more prosperous, but I think people forget just how poor and undeveloped most of the world was during that time, and even the 'good' places had plenty of harsh downturns: look up Sweden in the 70s, for example. Economics aside, the reason many older people 'miss' Soviet Union is due to a very different mentality. There was less focus on work as a means to make money and more focus on meaning and contributing to the society, which is something that modern world could use. People love to talk about NKVD and KGB, the gulags, the lack of products, etc; often quoting Soviet-era jokes like that's evidence of the points they're making. The truth is people don't usually make jokes about things that are a true danger to themselves or their families. People joked about the KGB and the empty grocery store shelves because for the most part, that wasn't something that would ever seriously bother them or anyone they personally know.

Soviet Union had plenty of flaws, but it was also a reasonably functioning society that had made a lot of positive contributions to the world. Let's not forget that many pro-working class movements internationally gained traction and concessions from their governments due to fear of communist uprisings in Western capitalist countries; the Soviets' massive contributions to sciences; or indeed their role in defeating Nazi Germany, a monster largely born out of inept diplomatic policies of the Western Allies. As it usually is, the truth isn't just black and white.

In fact, I'm fairly certain that one of the biggest reasons even the younger, educated folks in Russia put up with Putin's bullshit is because of the absolutely ridiculous anti-Russian, anti-USSR rhetoric. His talk about the West being against Russia wouldn't sound particularly unhinged to actual Russian people, given the sort of shit people say about Russians / Soviet Union on a daily basis nowadays, or even before the war started.

TIL that not having universities teach in Ukrainian is as bad as murdering millions of people. You put a lot of effort into that rant, I'll give you that.


Poland's policies in the occupied territories were just a smidgeon worse than 'not having universities teach in Ukrainian.'


First of all, "occupied territories"? Second of all, care to elaborate? Are you sure they were even remotely comparable to the Soviet Union mass murdering 20% of its Polish population? Or starving to death millions of Ukrainians in modern Eastern Ukraine and repopulating the area with ethnic Russians? Or ethnically cleansing Crimea from its Tatar population? I could go on.


Why are you putting occupied territories in quotes? What else would you call Polish control of Vilnius, Lviv, Pinsk etc? Also, Poland willingly sided with Hitler during Munich conference, like they didn't just say okay whatever, they actively sought to help the Germans dismantle Czechoslovakia for their own gain so yeah. They also jailed thousands of Lithuanian, Byelorussian and Ukrainian activists, teachers, and cultural workers -- basically anyone who tried to promote the language and cultural rights of their respective minorities. I don't know if it's 'just as bad' as what the Soviets did, and I don't think comparisons of who was 'badder' are in any way useful; what I do know is that the interwar period was a time of great strife and conflict, and no country leader had their hands clean during that time. Trying to pretend like there were evil empires of Soviets and Germans, and the good innocent people of other countries unjustly suffered at their hands is simply historical revisionism, and completely ignores the realities of that era.

On October 03 2022 18:59 maybenexttime wrote:
Yes, taking away food from starving people at gunpoint and forcing them to cannibalize one another is totally comparable to Britain's policies potentially exacerbating an existing crisis.

And what silly excuses do you have for the Soviet Union deporting about one million Polish people to Siberia, causing hundreds of thousands of deaths? ;-)


Britain literally did take food away from starving people at gunpoint, it was in no way different, if anything it was worse, than what happened in Ukraine. It's not as if the Russkies just rolled up to Kyiv and decided to take the plentiful grain out of the place -- it was a country-wide famine. Read up on the Bengal famine in more detail, if you manage to find any decent sources on that topic because god knows it is far more difficult to find them than it is for Holodomor, I wonder why.
Liquid`Drone
Profile Joined September 2002
Norway28853 Posts
October 03 2022 10:07 GMT
#5210
On October 03 2022 16:07 Salazarz wrote:
Just about all the criticisms of Soviet Union I hear these days, on this site as well as places like reddit and even more 'serious' takes by journalists / academics usually completely ignore wider geopolitical context and focus on specific aspects of USSR that they deem 'bad', which is reductionist and frankly stupid.

My personal favorite is the constant decrying of the evil imperialist Soviet Union chopping up Poland alongside the Nazis that totally makes them same as Hitler in the eyes of the Polish people; when Poland itself made multiple landgrabs of its own during the interwar period and had a policy of forced 'Polonization' for its minorities that was by all accounts more oppressive than anything comparable done by Russians in the Soviet Union. Lithuanians in particular seem weirdly okay with the fact that Poland occupied key parts of Lithuania including their capital Vilnius following a sham referendum no better than the ones just carried out by Putin days ago, it's only the evil imperialist Soviet Union occupation that they're angry about, nevermind that a good third of their country's population would have grown up as Poles instead if not for that. And let's not forget Poland's role in the Sudeten crisis, where they openly supported Germany, made any notion of a Stalin-proposed Soviet-Czechoslovakia defense treaty an impossibility, and carried out another landgrab of their own when Czechoslovakia was being cut to pieces. But no, none of that matters; it's only the evil imperialist Soviet Union that we talk about, and their demonic oppression of poor, freedom-loving Polish people.

Also, saying that USSR was a 'disaster' for its people is pretty weird. Disaster compared to what? Quality of life in USSR was undeniably better than it was in Tzarist Russia. Would it be better with other leaders / government types? Maybe, maybe not -- who the fuck knows. After the revolution, Russia was a backwater mess, riddled with debts and internal strife. Whatever government took charge, would have a massive mountain to climb out of that hole. During the Cold War era, Soviet Union was, for the most part, an okay place to live. The US was obviously much more prosperous, but I think people forget just how poor and undeveloped most of the world was during that time, and even the 'good' places had plenty of harsh downturns: look up Sweden in the 70s, for example. Economics aside, the reason many older people 'miss' Soviet Union is due to a very different mentality. There was less focus on work as a means to make money and more focus on meaning and contributing to the society, which is something that modern world could use. People love to talk about NKVD and KGB, the gulags, the lack of products, etc; often quoting Soviet-era jokes like that's evidence of the points they're making. The truth is people don't usually make jokes about things that are a true danger to themselves or their families. People joked about the KGB and the empty grocery store shelves because for the most part, that wasn't something that would ever seriously bother them or anyone they personally know.

Soviet Union had plenty of flaws, but it was also a reasonably functioning society that had made a lot of positive contributions to the world. Let's not forget that many pro-working class movements internationally gained traction and concessions from their governments due to fear of communist uprisings in Western capitalist countries; the Soviets' massive contributions to sciences; or indeed their role in defeating Nazi Germany, a monster largely born out of inept diplomatic policies of the Western Allies. As it usually is, the truth isn't just black and white.

In fact, I'm fairly certain that one of the biggest reasons even the younger, educated folks in Russia put up with Putin's bullshit is because of the absolutely ridiculous anti-Russian, anti-USSR rhetoric. His talk about the West being against Russia wouldn't sound particularly unhinged to actual Russian people, given the sort of shit people say about Russians / Soviet Union on a daily basis nowadays, or even before the war started.


If you compare the Soviet Union with Tsarist Russia then sure, I'd happily go with the Soviet Union. The thing is, the Soviet Union wasn't just Russia, and almost all countries in the world were better off from the 1950s onwards than they were 50 years prior.

If you, rather than compare pre-soviet Russia with the Soviet Union, look at how countries that were forcibly integrated into the Soviet Union and how these countries developed comparably to the western European countries that were not forcibly integrated / look further at how the Eastern European countries developed after the breakdown of the Soviet Union, you'll get a better understanding of why the USSR is subject to such negative rhetoric.
Moderator
maybenexttime
Profile Blog Joined November 2006
Poland5837 Posts
Last Edited: 2022-10-03 10:15:24
October 03 2022 10:13 GMT
#5211
@Salazarz

And Hitler was just misunderstood. lol Nice historical fiction you've got there.
Simberto
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Germany11921 Posts
October 03 2022 10:14 GMT
#5212
The best thing the soviet union did was forcing the capitalist societies to be more social for fear of their workers revolting. Sadly, after the fall of the soviet union, everything went increasingly more neoliberal.

That does not mean that the soviet union was a good thing. For anyone living in the soviet union, it was shit.

But also, isn't this really off-topic here?
0x64
Profile Blog Joined September 2002
Finland4628 Posts
October 03 2022 10:36 GMT
#5213
On October 03 2022 19:14 Simberto wrote:
The best thing the soviet union did was forcing the capitalist societies to be more social for fear of their workers revolting. Sadly, after the fall of the soviet union, everything went increasingly more neoliberal.

That does not mean that the soviet union was a good thing. For anyone living in the soviet union, it was shit.

But also, isn't this really off-topic here?


Actually, the collapse of social society in Europe is more driven by a very toxic age pyramid. You cannot have enough doctors currently in France for example...

I feel this is crazy off topic though, should we at least try getting back on tracks?

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0x64
Profile Blog Joined September 2002
Finland4628 Posts
October 03 2022 10:37 GMT
#5214
I think it is way too early for news outlet and Ukrainian army to shout victory.

The faster it is done, the faster the collapse of Putin can happen, and this is wishful thinking, I am aware!
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Ardias
Profile Joined January 2014
Russian Federation618 Posts
Last Edited: 2022-10-03 11:24:02
October 03 2022 10:54 GMT
#5215
On October 03 2022 19:14 Simberto wrote:
The best thing the soviet union did was forcing the capitalist societies to be more social for fear of their workers revolting. Sadly, after the fall of the soviet union, everything went increasingly more neoliberal.

That does not mean that the soviet union was a good thing. For anyone living in the soviet union, it was shit.

But also, isn't this really off-topic here?

A lot of people who actually lived there are inclined to disagree with you. I'll agree on it being off-topic though.

Regarding Russian arms production - either sanctions do not have the necessary effect and Russian arms industry gets necessary electronics elsewhere, or they have hefty stocks of those.

New batch of T-80BVM, the latest modification of T-80, being shipped from the factory to the front.
https://t.me/topwar_official/59149
T-90M is used by the mobilized for the practice on training ground. Considering that there were only around 30 of those before the 2022, and at least few companies were equipped with those in Ukraine (since they were met on both Kharkov and Kherson directions) these seem to be the new ones.
https://t.me/milinfolive/91226
Rostec corporation claims that production of Tornado-G and Tornado-S increased by few times in comparison to previous year. These are versions of BM-21 Grad and BM-30 Smerch respectively, equipped with integrated ballistic computers and satellite navigation, allowing for more fast and precise firing solutions. Tornado-S also allows the use of the guided munitions similar to GMLRS used by HIMARS.
https://t.me/boris_rozhin/65940

More echelons with vehicles are moved via Crimea bridge
These ones seem to be from the storage, look like BMP-1 and T-72B
https://t.me/boris_rozhin/65695
Seem to be T-72 as well
https://t.me/rybar/39670
This echelon was shot somewhere in Central Russia. It seem to be new vehicles, at least the armored cars in the end of the video. These are KamAZ-43269 armored cars with Spitsa ("Spoke") unmanned gun turret, with 30mm autocannon, 12,7mm machinegun and 30mm grenade launcher. These entered production just this year.
https://t.me/rybar/39636

Also the start of the autumn conscription is postponed to the 1st of November, since recruitment stations and training grounds are seem to be packed full with the mobilized. Then conscription will be held between 01.11 and 31.12, so new wave of mobilization is unlikely to happen this year.
https://ria.ru/20221001/prizyv-1820808612.html
Mess with the best or die like the rest.
Deleted User 173346
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
16169 Posts
Last Edited: 2022-10-03 14:14:28
October 03 2022 11:04 GMT
#5216
--- Nuked ---
Simberto
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Germany11921 Posts
Last Edited: 2022-10-03 11:14:13
October 03 2022 11:13 GMT
#5217
I am not the biggest fan of cryptic predictions, especially from people who should know better. If you are a serious researcher, put up your research, give a real detailed conclusion, and explain how you come to that conclusion.

Don't tweet: "A much bigger Russian collapse will unfold in the coming days."

I am a bit fed up with sensationalist cryptic statements like that, which can mean anything and nothing at all. Scientist are supposed to do science, not try to be the next Nostradamus.
Deleted User 173346
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
16169 Posts
October 03 2022 11:26 GMT
#5218
--- Nuked ---
Silvanel
Profile Blog Joined March 2003
Poland4768 Posts
October 03 2022 11:46 GMT
#5219
Well. He is a guy famous for his predictions not coming true... so I don't know what exactly are You expecting.
Pathetic Greta hater.
Manit0u
Profile Blog Joined August 2004
Poland17785 Posts
Last Edited: 2022-10-03 18:28:30
October 03 2022 12:08 GMT
#5220


This is pretty insane... POV of a Russian who moved to Georgia and how crazy the life in Russia has become and what weird laws they have (calling the "special operation" anything but is a felony, so is saying that Russia did not actually annex LPR/DPR etc. which can result in jail time). Basically, this content creator is extremely confused and worried for his life as well as lives of his family and I can only assume it's similar for many more young Russians.

It's also funny how he mentions Russian-speaking content creators who produced pro-state content (government shills basically) and now are desperately fleeing the country.
Time is precious. Waste it wisely.
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