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Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu tells i24 he feels he is on a “historic and spiritual mission,” and that he is “very” attached to the vision of a Greater Israel.
This to me very much confirms what I and others have been saying for a long time now, the current regime in Israel is expansionist, nationalistic and messianic and the greatest obstacle in reaching peace and end of suffering is Nethyanahu, Likud and their even more right wing allies.
There are two interpretations of "Greater Israel":
1. The Biblical Vision: Land stretching from the Nile to the Euphrates including Syria, Lebanon, Jordan, Egypt and even Iraq.
2. The Political Vision: Annexation of the West Bank and Gaza and Syrian Golan heights.
Either of those being the end goal for Nethyanahu seems much more consistent with Israels actions over the last year then just myopic interpretation that they are just "sticking to their war goals of ending Hamas and securing Israel in general".
They have goals, those goals is to annex Gaza and West bank completely and continue disenfranchisement of Palestinians, further solidifying Israel as an apartheid state with Palestinians as second class citizens (at best) or completely ethnically cleansing them.
Another piece of news that hasn't really been discussed but came out recently:
Israel is in talks to possibly resettle Palestinians from Gaza in South Sudan
This is again consistent with the above goals, and it also goes to show how fucked up this is, they want to ship Gazans off to the country that is also an active war zone and in which they'd also face prosecution based on who they are.
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On August 14 2025 04:40 Magic Powers wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2025 04:14 Billyboy wrote:On August 14 2025 04:02 Magic Powers wrote:On August 14 2025 03:29 Billyboy wrote:On August 14 2025 03:17 Magic Powers wrote:On August 14 2025 02:57 KwarK wrote:On August 14 2025 01:26 Magic Powers wrote:On August 14 2025 00:50 KwarK wrote:
Let’s imagine for a second an exceedingly unlikely scenario. There’s a ceasefire and a new government in Gaza. Iran stops supplying Gazans with weapons and the million young, displaced, radicalized, justifiably vengeful, and propagandized Gazans who grew up under Hamas rule all decide to forgive Israel. No more rocket attacks on Israel, no more answering air strikes. Completely impossible but let’s imagine it anyway.
Let’s imagine what that Gaza looks like. What it’s birth rate looks like. What its employment rate looks like. What its major industries and economic activities are. How its government is financed, how it provides services and so forth. Where people live.
What I’m imagining is still an overcrowded intergenerational refugee camp with no meaningful economic activity taking place, no mobility, wholly dependent upon outside aid, and no end in sight. What I’m imagining is large numbers of people who have been fucked over by the world who are rightfully furious about it. And people with an awful lot of time on their hands to think about how furious they are and with absolutely no prospect of any of the issues changing.
I’m often told I have no empathy for Gazans and I think that that couldn’t be further from the truth. I don’t think they’re evil or inhuman or monsters or whatever, I put myself in their shoes to the extent that I am able and think that their fury is wholly warranted. It makes sense. They’re not evil, they’re normal people reacting to an awful situation.
And my hypothesis that a Gaza under a ceasefire still turns to radical violent politics isn’t exactly untested. I’m arguing it as a hypothetical but we’ve already seen a Gaza under a ceasefire, it turned to Hamas. By the polling Hamas would still win an election held today.
A ceasefire isn’t enough. If we want Gazans to choose peace then we need to give them more than that because right now the argument for an end to violence isn’t convincing Gazans. They need a future they can believe in for themselves and their families and “this but without the airstrikes” doesn’t cut it.
A ceasefire is just things getting worse more slowly for as long as it lasts, and then when it inevitably ends it’ll be back to airstrikes. This is why I referred to other conflicts such as the Korean war, which resulted in a split between two oppressed nations, one becoming prosperous and one remaining oppressed. There are a lot of parallels between Korea and Israel-Palestine. It's a great example showing that oppression and war doesn't have to be the end of things. The two split countries' administrations imposed completely different policies post-war and experienced completely different fates. North Korea is still poor and oppressed while South Korea is rich and, well, very hierarchical but certainly not oppressed, and consistently moving away from corruption and authoritarianism. At the same time Koreans are technically still at war, and the threat is constant. It's so prevalent that South Koreans have a big gun culture that is at least on par with that of US Americans. They celebrate guns. And the military is always ready to strike if it becomes necessary. They're constantly worried. And yet people aren't being slaughtered. The war has turned cold for many years. I don't see a reason why Israel-Palestine doesn't have a realistic chance of experiencing a similar outcome. Sure, one of the sides could remain oppressed. That would presumably be the Palestinians under Hamas rule. But this doesn't mean there has to be a continuous hot war leading to tens of thousands of casualties. North Korea hasn't attacked South Korea in a long time. And that's not because there aren't any tensions on the border. Tensions remain. But it's under control. Gaza and NK couldn't be more different I'm afraid. I don't think you do this on purpose, but I want to let you know that you make discussion impossible with a response like this. I call the two conflicts comparable. I believe there are plenty of parallels that allow me to conclude that there is hope for Palestinians and Gaza. You respond saying there are literally no comparisons whatsoever. So I'm over here sitting rather middle-groundish arguing my case. I have researched the two conflicts to a degree that gives me confidence that my argument is reasonable. Then you come and kick down the entire thing like it's a sand castle. Not with argumentation, but with a statement that poisons any further discussion. I already know, because of your statement, that if I respond again, you will not accept any of it. Nothing at all. What reason do I have to respond to you when you do that? By the way I have read your whole comment, just wanna mention that. I'm responding to this part in particular because I think this is at the core of our disagreements. It's not that my rationale is worse and yours is better or the other way around. It's that discussion becomes impossible with this argumentation style. In your analogy, how would the Gazan's be self sufficient in the way the NKs are? Or are you thinking they partner with another nation? NK is not a good country, it's horrible to live in. But I don't see tens of thousands of them dying every year. And they haven't attacked SK in many years. These are the two goals. These goals are realistic in my opinion after Israel withdraws. Nothing is guaranteed. But hope is only possible if hope is given a real chance. I'm not asking for Palestine to become a prosperous nation on Gazan soil. That is an ideal, not a realistic goal. I'm trying to reach much much lower. I get that, but how do you get to that point with Gaza? Everyone that is posting wants to at least get to them not at war with each other. How do you get there with Hamas declaring their forever war and seemingly unwilling to ever stop? How do you tamp down extremism when it is the perfect situation for it to form and the vast majority of the population has already been made extreme? I think another very imperfect comparison is Afghanistan, most wanted the west to leave. Is it better for the Afghan's that they have? There is not active war, but there are still lots dying. And long term is up in the air, are they going to satisfied within their boarders? The west didn't even leave because they thought it would be better for the Afghan's, it was because they were spending their money and losing their soldiers over there. What would lead anyone to believe that any country is going to take a greater expense, more dangerous and less chance of success mission? These are good and valid questions, and I don't have an answer to the majority of them. I think it'd take an unseen level of genius to come up with a solution that unfolds exactly as predicted from A to Z. I don't think this conflict can be figured out like that. So my approach is more direct and short term. I don't think about the long term as long as the short term is so intolerable. If my house is burning, I don't ask "how am I going to redesign my completely destroyed kitchen?" I ask "are there still people inside?" and "how do I prevent this fire from spreading any further?" After putting out the fire I move on to other questions. I think that's the way to do it honestly. We have to come up with answers step after step. We haven't even taken the first step.
I think we differ completely on this approach. Bad short term solutions over and over again, with never getting passed step 1 is why we are where we are. You do need step 1 to get started, but you need a plan (no plan is a plan to fail) that includes some accountability, enforcement and so on.
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On August 15 2025 02:14 Billyboy wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2025 04:40 Magic Powers wrote:On August 14 2025 04:14 Billyboy wrote:On August 14 2025 04:02 Magic Powers wrote:On August 14 2025 03:29 Billyboy wrote:On August 14 2025 03:17 Magic Powers wrote:On August 14 2025 02:57 KwarK wrote:On August 14 2025 01:26 Magic Powers wrote:On August 14 2025 00:50 KwarK wrote:
Let’s imagine for a second an exceedingly unlikely scenario. There’s a ceasefire and a new government in Gaza. Iran stops supplying Gazans with weapons and the million young, displaced, radicalized, justifiably vengeful, and propagandized Gazans who grew up under Hamas rule all decide to forgive Israel. No more rocket attacks on Israel, no more answering air strikes. Completely impossible but let’s imagine it anyway.
Let’s imagine what that Gaza looks like. What it’s birth rate looks like. What its employment rate looks like. What its major industries and economic activities are. How its government is financed, how it provides services and so forth. Where people live.
What I’m imagining is still an overcrowded intergenerational refugee camp with no meaningful economic activity taking place, no mobility, wholly dependent upon outside aid, and no end in sight. What I’m imagining is large numbers of people who have been fucked over by the world who are rightfully furious about it. And people with an awful lot of time on their hands to think about how furious they are and with absolutely no prospect of any of the issues changing.
I’m often told I have no empathy for Gazans and I think that that couldn’t be further from the truth. I don’t think they’re evil or inhuman or monsters or whatever, I put myself in their shoes to the extent that I am able and think that their fury is wholly warranted. It makes sense. They’re not evil, they’re normal people reacting to an awful situation.
And my hypothesis that a Gaza under a ceasefire still turns to radical violent politics isn’t exactly untested. I’m arguing it as a hypothetical but we’ve already seen a Gaza under a ceasefire, it turned to Hamas. By the polling Hamas would still win an election held today.
A ceasefire isn’t enough. If we want Gazans to choose peace then we need to give them more than that because right now the argument for an end to violence isn’t convincing Gazans. They need a future they can believe in for themselves and their families and “this but without the airstrikes” doesn’t cut it.
A ceasefire is just things getting worse more slowly for as long as it lasts, and then when it inevitably ends it’ll be back to airstrikes. This is why I referred to other conflicts such as the Korean war, which resulted in a split between two oppressed nations, one becoming prosperous and one remaining oppressed. There are a lot of parallels between Korea and Israel-Palestine. It's a great example showing that oppression and war doesn't have to be the end of things. The two split countries' administrations imposed completely different policies post-war and experienced completely different fates. North Korea is still poor and oppressed while South Korea is rich and, well, very hierarchical but certainly not oppressed, and consistently moving away from corruption and authoritarianism. At the same time Koreans are technically still at war, and the threat is constant. It's so prevalent that South Koreans have a big gun culture that is at least on par with that of US Americans. They celebrate guns. And the military is always ready to strike if it becomes necessary. They're constantly worried. And yet people aren't being slaughtered. The war has turned cold for many years. I don't see a reason why Israel-Palestine doesn't have a realistic chance of experiencing a similar outcome. Sure, one of the sides could remain oppressed. That would presumably be the Palestinians under Hamas rule. But this doesn't mean there has to be a continuous hot war leading to tens of thousands of casualties. North Korea hasn't attacked South Korea in a long time. And that's not because there aren't any tensions on the border. Tensions remain. But it's under control. Gaza and NK couldn't be more different I'm afraid. I don't think you do this on purpose, but I want to let you know that you make discussion impossible with a response like this. I call the two conflicts comparable. I believe there are plenty of parallels that allow me to conclude that there is hope for Palestinians and Gaza. You respond saying there are literally no comparisons whatsoever. So I'm over here sitting rather middle-groundish arguing my case. I have researched the two conflicts to a degree that gives me confidence that my argument is reasonable. Then you come and kick down the entire thing like it's a sand castle. Not with argumentation, but with a statement that poisons any further discussion. I already know, because of your statement, that if I respond again, you will not accept any of it. Nothing at all. What reason do I have to respond to you when you do that? By the way I have read your whole comment, just wanna mention that. I'm responding to this part in particular because I think this is at the core of our disagreements. It's not that my rationale is worse and yours is better or the other way around. It's that discussion becomes impossible with this argumentation style. In your analogy, how would the Gazan's be self sufficient in the way the NKs are? Or are you thinking they partner with another nation? NK is not a good country, it's horrible to live in. But I don't see tens of thousands of them dying every year. And they haven't attacked SK in many years. These are the two goals. These goals are realistic in my opinion after Israel withdraws. Nothing is guaranteed. But hope is only possible if hope is given a real chance. I'm not asking for Palestine to become a prosperous nation on Gazan soil. That is an ideal, not a realistic goal. I'm trying to reach much much lower. I get that, but how do you get to that point with Gaza? Everyone that is posting wants to at least get to them not at war with each other. How do you get there with Hamas declaring their forever war and seemingly unwilling to ever stop? How do you tamp down extremism when it is the perfect situation for it to form and the vast majority of the population has already been made extreme? I think another very imperfect comparison is Afghanistan, most wanted the west to leave. Is it better for the Afghan's that they have? There is not active war, but there are still lots dying. And long term is up in the air, are they going to satisfied within their boarders? The west didn't even leave because they thought it would be better for the Afghan's, it was because they were spending their money and losing their soldiers over there. What would lead anyone to believe that any country is going to take a greater expense, more dangerous and less chance of success mission? These are good and valid questions, and I don't have an answer to the majority of them. I think it'd take an unseen level of genius to come up with a solution that unfolds exactly as predicted from A to Z. I don't think this conflict can be figured out like that. So my approach is more direct and short term. I don't think about the long term as long as the short term is so intolerable. If my house is burning, I don't ask "how am I going to redesign my completely destroyed kitchen?" I ask "are there still people inside?" and "how do I prevent this fire from spreading any further?" After putting out the fire I move on to other questions. I think that's the way to do it honestly. We have to come up with answers step after step. We haven't even taken the first step. I think we differ completely on this approach. Bad short term solutions over and over again, with never getting passed step 1 is why we are where we are. You do need step 1 to get started, but you need a plan (no plan is a plan to fail) that includes some accountability, enforcement and so on.
My plan, if I were in politics, would be to apply pressure on Israel to incentivize them to oust Netanyahu and replace him with a much more moderate and diplomatic person.
Non-German and non-US politicians can also apply pressure on Israel indirectly by applying pressure on Germany and the US.
This is one of the reasons why it's so important that the Trump era ends, too, because no pressure would work on him.
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On August 14 2025 04:22 KwarK wrote:
I don't think there's any country in the world you could really compare with Gaza, it's a truly unique situation. It took decades of very specific circumstances that don't occur naturally to create.
Probably Hati tbh. much longer and less intensive but just as miserable.
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Another revealing example of how Netanyahu views support for Palestinians.
"[...] Palestinians are not about creating a state. They’re about destroying a state. [...]"
https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/netanyahu-slams-world-leaders-for-absurd-belief-that-giving-palestinians-a-state-would-stop-their-efforts-to-destroy-israel/
No matter how much I look at the context of his statement, it doesn't sound any better. He believes Palestinians are driven by an agenda to destroy and not to create. He makes it sound as if they were an inherently destructive force, and their extremism was unrelated to a lack of a path to statehood or decades long hostilities and oppression.
This speech came after several countries voiced their intent to acknowledge the state of Palestine. In the context of his whole speech, Netanyahu is trying to paint support for Palestinian statehood as a wish for the destruction of Israel. It's an attempt of him trying to shame international support for Palestine.
I think he knows he's losing the optics. This is what it looks like when a brutal oppressor begins to fall.
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Well, Nethyanahu is a ghoul, that much is clear:
Tens of thousands of Israeli joined to protest and demand the end of war and release of hostages
His reaction says everything you need to know about him:
Netanyahu criticised the protesters, saying their actions “not only harden Hamas’s position and draw out the release of our hostages, but also ensure that the horrors of 7 October will reoccur”.
The best way to make sure another October 7th doesn't happen is getting rid of this guy and letting him go to jail over the corruption and abuse of power cases he's been accumulating over the decades.
Here's hoping.
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These states recognising Palestine will be 'surprised' when Gaza City has been conquered and the West Bank has been cut in half before the UN assembly begins. It should be hard to support a two-state solution and Israel at the same time when Israel is actively destroying any chance of that being the solution.
Also, there was the shocking audio recording of the previous intelligence chief saying that Palestinians need a Nakba( genocide) now and then. With those kinds of comments, it is hard to say that the extremist genocidal thinking would be somehow limited within the IDF.
Yet again nothing is likely to happen.
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On August 21 2025 15:13 Legan wrote:
These states recognising Palestine will be 'surprised' when Gaza City has been conquered and the West Bank has been cut in half before the UN assembly begins. It should be hard to support a two-state solution and Israel at the same time when Israel is actively destroying any chance of that being the solution.
Also, there was the shocking audio recording of the previous intelligence chief saying that Palestinians need a Nakba( genocide) now and then. With those kinds of comments, it is hard to say that the extremist genocidal thinking would be somehow limited within the IDF.
Yet again nothing is likely to happen.
I'd much rather say those in power in Israel will be surprised how much domestic backlash they're facing. It's been reported that between half and one million people were protesting recently. That's 5-10% of the population. Not 5-10% of adults, but 5-10% of all people. If that figure is true and continues to grow, then there may be serious consequences for the current administration. They're facing international pressure, but domestic pressure might be even greater.
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I found something that further explains the widespread starvation. The humanitarian catastrophe is in large part fabricated by the war, which is why I'm making the simple argument that the IDF has to withdraw without any further considerations.
He added: “My main argument in this map was that most of the population (the one million inhabitants of Gaza and a large proportion of those in the central zone) is far from the location of the humanitarian compounds, which remains the case. I didn't even assume that this was the entire population of Gaza – that the figures add up to 100% - but simply a representation of the central concentrations.”
The France24 article is actually about misinformation (a good example of how a lie - and thus radicalism - spreads). I tried to confirm the figure of missing Palestinians and that led me to this article. It explains both the misinformation and also the finding that Yaakov Garb did actually put out (the above quote).
https://www.france24.com/en/middle-east/20250625-harvard-report-gaza-missing-misinterpreted-number-israel
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On August 21 2025 16:08 Magic Powers wrote:Show nested quote +On August 21 2025 15:13 Legan wrote:
These states recognising Palestine will be 'surprised' when Gaza City has been conquered and the West Bank has been cut in half before the UN assembly begins. It should be hard to support a two-state solution and Israel at the same time when Israel is actively destroying any chance of that being the solution.
Also, there was the shocking audio recording of the previous intelligence chief saying that Palestinians need a Nakba( genocide) now and then. With those kinds of comments, it is hard to say that the extremist genocidal thinking would be somehow limited within the IDF.
Yet again nothing is likely to happen. I'd much rather say those in power in Israel will be surprised how much domestic backlash they're facing. It's been reported that between half and one million people were protesting recently. That's 5-10% of the population. Not 5-10% of adults, but 5-10% of all people. If that figure is true and continues to grow, then there may be serious consequences for the current administration. They're facing international pressure, but domestic pressure might be even greater.
I have a hard time believing that internal pressure will continue once the conquering of Gaza City and other parts is much further in progress. Once the step has been taken and can't be undone, it is much easier to accept it. Especially when more hostages die or are rescued.
The 5-10% seems low when you compare it to the polling each party gets and their respective positions. The judicial reform that caused mass protests eventually went through, so these protests may have a similar fate, and the operation in Gaza City has already started.
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5 % is well over the 3.5% rule threshold which in a lot of cases of non violent protests is enough to overthrow an unpopular government.
Given what Nethyanahu's been saying about the protestors I have a feeling he's really feeling the heat, all it takes is a violent response from the police and this could explode.
I know it won't happen but I would love for him to face the consequences, my preference given the magnitude of him being a piece of shit would be Gadaffi treatment, but Sadam one works too.
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On August 21 2025 16:58 Legan wrote:Show nested quote +On August 21 2025 16:08 Magic Powers wrote:On August 21 2025 15:13 Legan wrote:
These states recognising Palestine will be 'surprised' when Gaza City has been conquered and the West Bank has been cut in half before the UN assembly begins. It should be hard to support a two-state solution and Israel at the same time when Israel is actively destroying any chance of that being the solution.
Also, there was the shocking audio recording of the previous intelligence chief saying that Palestinians need a Nakba( genocide) now and then. With those kinds of comments, it is hard to say that the extremist genocidal thinking would be somehow limited within the IDF.
Yet again nothing is likely to happen. I'd much rather say those in power in Israel will be surprised how much domestic backlash they're facing. It's been reported that between half and one million people were protesting recently. That's 5-10% of the population. Not 5-10% of adults, but 5-10% of all people. If that figure is true and continues to grow, then there may be serious consequences for the current administration. They're facing international pressure, but domestic pressure might be even greater. I have a hard time believing that internal pressure will continue once the conquering of Gaza City and other parts is much further in progress. Once the step has been taken and can't be undone, it is much easier to accept it. Especially when more hostages die or are rescued. The 5-10% seems low when you compare it to the polling each party gets and their respective positions. The judicial reform that caused mass protests eventually went through, so these protests may have a similar fate, and the operation in Gaza City has already started.
I'm not super optimistic either, I just think there's potential. I think your Gaza City argument makes sense, and I think people are more accepting of outcomes when they've already happened. On the other hand I agree with Jankisa that Netanyahu is feeling the heat. He's pissed at his international allies and he's afraid of his own people. And he's in a pickle because he can't go the Putin route of just cracking down hard on protesters. He has to play the optics game.
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On August 14 2025 01:26 Magic Powers wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2025 00:50 KwarK wrote:
Let’s imagine for a second an exceedingly unlikely scenario. There’s a ceasefire and a new government in Gaza. Iran stops supplying Gazans with weapons and the million young, displaced, radicalized, justifiably vengeful, and propagandized Gazans who grew up under Hamas rule all decide to forgive Israel. No more rocket attacks on Israel, no more answering air strikes. Completely impossible but let’s imagine it anyway.
Let’s imagine what that Gaza looks like. What it’s birth rate looks like. What its employment rate looks like. What its major industries and economic activities are. How its government is financed, how it provides services and so forth. Where people live.
What I’m imagining is still an overcrowded intergenerational refugee camp with no meaningful economic activity taking place, no mobility, wholly dependent upon outside aid, and no end in sight. What I’m imagining is large numbers of people who have been fucked over by the world who are rightfully furious about it. And people with an awful lot of time on their hands to think about how furious they are and with absolutely no prospect of any of the issues changing.
I’m often told I have no empathy for Gazans and I think that that couldn’t be further from the truth. I don’t think they’re evil or inhuman or monsters or whatever, I put myself in their shoes to the extent that I am able and think that their fury is wholly warranted. It makes sense. They’re not evil, they’re normal people reacting to an awful situation.
And my hypothesis that a Gaza under a ceasefire still turns to radical violent politics isn’t exactly untested. I’m arguing it as a hypothetical but we’ve already seen a Gaza under a ceasefire, it turned to Hamas. By the polling Hamas would still win an election held today.
A ceasefire isn’t enough. If we want Gazans to choose peace then we need to give them more than that because right now the argument for an end to violence isn’t convincing Gazans. They need a future they can believe in for themselves and their families and “this but without the airstrikes” doesn’t cut it.
A ceasefire is just things getting worse more slowly for as long as it lasts, and then when it inevitably ends it’ll be back to airstrikes. This is why I referred to other conflicts such as the Korean war, which resulted in a split between two oppressed nations, one becoming prosperous and one remaining oppressed. There are a lot of parallels between Korea and Israel-Palestine. It's a great example showing that oppression and war doesn't have to be the end of things. The two split countries' administrations imposed completely different policies post-war and experienced completely different fates. North Korea is still poor and oppressed while South Korea is rich and, well, very hierarchical but certainly not oppressed, and consistently moving away from corruption and authoritarianism. At the same time Koreans are technically still at war, and the threat is constant. It's so prevalent that South Koreans have a big gun culture that is at least on par with that of US Americans. They celebrate guns. And the military is always ready to strike if it becomes necessary. They're constantly worried. And yet people aren't being slaughtered. The war has turned cold for many years. I don't see a reason why Israel-Palestine doesn't have a realistic chance of experiencing a similar outcome. Sure, one of the sides could remain oppressed. That would presumably be the Palestinians under Hamas rule. But this doesn't mean there has to be a continuous hot war leading to tens of thousands of casualties. North Korea hasn't attacked South Korea in a long time. And that's not because there aren't any tensions on the border. Tensions remain. But it's under control.
super late to this because i stopped reading the thread for a while, but holy moly this is a bad take.
its such a bad take that its borderline offensive as a korean to see such a comparison being made. on top of that the few details you point to such as south korea having a big gun culture (wtf?) and thousands in north korea not dying every year are straight up wrong.
south korea literally doesnt allow private gun ownership. how in the fuck is that having a big gun culture on par with the US? do you know how difficult it is to acquire a glock in korea? next to impossible. the most common firearm in the world isnt even used in the korean police force. also, contrary to foreigners beliefs, south koreans dont live in constant worry or fear of north korea. for all north korea does wrong, it doesnt change the fact that they are still korean by blood. from a social, cultural and religious standpoint, the risk of a korean population turning terrorist and wreaking havoc on neighbouring countries is zero. its just not the kind of people we are; maybe thats why weve always been on the receiving end by china and japan for basically our entire history. the only risk factor for north korea is kim jong un himself, and one thing we can count on is he cares about his own life and kingdom more than picking fights that would 100% end up with him dead.
and literally thousands die in north korea every year from starvation. the country is a shambles, living in poverty, basically no infrastructure, basically no trade, no food, the population is uneducated and ignorant and they are governed by a man who pretends to be a divine entity. the ceasefire of the war did not end up being a net positive for the koreans on the north side of the border. the reality is, the entirety of north korea would be objectively better off now if the US-south korean alliance pushed back all the way. of course, thats much easier said than done, and im not suggesting that that should be the play for israel-palestine. the 2 wars are not comparable in the slightest, starting from the extremely crucial point that in the korean war both sides were the same people and didnt fundamentally want to fight each other. thats why the topic of unification has always been a thing for korea, and it will never be the case for israel-palestine
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On August 21 2025 16:58 Legan wrote:Show nested quote +On August 21 2025 16:08 Magic Powers wrote:On August 21 2025 15:13 Legan wrote:
These states recognising Palestine will be 'surprised' when Gaza City has been conquered and the West Bank has been cut in half before the UN assembly begins. It should be hard to support a two-state solution and Israel at the same time when Israel is actively destroying any chance of that being the solution.
Also, there was the shocking audio recording of the previous intelligence chief saying that Palestinians need a Nakba( genocide) now and then. With those kinds of comments, it is hard to say that the extremist genocidal thinking would be somehow limited within the IDF.
Yet again nothing is likely to happen. I'd much rather say those in power in Israel will be surprised how much domestic backlash they're facing. It's been reported that between half and one million people were protesting recently. That's 5-10% of the population. Not 5-10% of adults, but 5-10% of all people. If that figure is true and continues to grow, then there may be serious consequences for the current administration. They're facing international pressure, but domestic pressure might be even greater. I have a hard time believing that internal pressure will continue once the conquering of Gaza City and other parts is much further in progress. Once the step has been taken and can't be undone, it is much easier to accept it. Especially when more hostages die or are rescued.
Serious international pressure has already ended for now.
You can tell by the way western journalists largely ignored obvious targeted killing of al-Sharif.
Most likely a deal was reached to stop starving Palestinians in exchange for free hand in Gaza City and maybe even beyond.
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On August 21 2025 21:00 evilfatsh1t wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2025 01:26 Magic Powers wrote:On August 14 2025 00:50 KwarK wrote:
Let’s imagine for a second an exceedingly unlikely scenario. There’s a ceasefire and a new government in Gaza. Iran stops supplying Gazans with weapons and the million young, displaced, radicalized, justifiably vengeful, and propagandized Gazans who grew up under Hamas rule all decide to forgive Israel. No more rocket attacks on Israel, no more answering air strikes. Completely impossible but let’s imagine it anyway.
Let’s imagine what that Gaza looks like. What it’s birth rate looks like. What its employment rate looks like. What its major industries and economic activities are. How its government is financed, how it provides services and so forth. Where people live.
What I’m imagining is still an overcrowded intergenerational refugee camp with no meaningful economic activity taking place, no mobility, wholly dependent upon outside aid, and no end in sight. What I’m imagining is large numbers of people who have been fucked over by the world who are rightfully furious about it. And people with an awful lot of time on their hands to think about how furious they are and with absolutely no prospect of any of the issues changing.
I’m often told I have no empathy for Gazans and I think that that couldn’t be further from the truth. I don’t think they’re evil or inhuman or monsters or whatever, I put myself in their shoes to the extent that I am able and think that their fury is wholly warranted. It makes sense. They’re not evil, they’re normal people reacting to an awful situation.
And my hypothesis that a Gaza under a ceasefire still turns to radical violent politics isn’t exactly untested. I’m arguing it as a hypothetical but we’ve already seen a Gaza under a ceasefire, it turned to Hamas. By the polling Hamas would still win an election held today.
A ceasefire isn’t enough. If we want Gazans to choose peace then we need to give them more than that because right now the argument for an end to violence isn’t convincing Gazans. They need a future they can believe in for themselves and their families and “this but without the airstrikes” doesn’t cut it.
A ceasefire is just things getting worse more slowly for as long as it lasts, and then when it inevitably ends it’ll be back to airstrikes. This is why I referred to other conflicts such as the Korean war, which resulted in a split between two oppressed nations, one becoming prosperous and one remaining oppressed. There are a lot of parallels between Korea and Israel-Palestine. It's a great example showing that oppression and war doesn't have to be the end of things. The two split countries' administrations imposed completely different policies post-war and experienced completely different fates. North Korea is still poor and oppressed while South Korea is rich and, well, very hierarchical but certainly not oppressed, and consistently moving away from corruption and authoritarianism. At the same time Koreans are technically still at war, and the threat is constant. It's so prevalent that South Koreans have a big gun culture that is at least on par with that of US Americans. They celebrate guns. And the military is always ready to strike if it becomes necessary. They're constantly worried. And yet people aren't being slaughtered. The war has turned cold for many years. I don't see a reason why Israel-Palestine doesn't have a realistic chance of experiencing a similar outcome. Sure, one of the sides could remain oppressed. That would presumably be the Palestinians under Hamas rule. But this doesn't mean there has to be a continuous hot war leading to tens of thousands of casualties. North Korea hasn't attacked South Korea in a long time. And that's not because there aren't any tensions on the border. Tensions remain. But it's under control. super late to this because i stopped reading the thread for a while, but holy moly this is a bad take. its such a bad take that its borderline offensive as a korean to see such a comparison being made. on top of that the few details you point to such as south korea having a big gun culture (wtf?) and thousands in north korea not dying every year are straight up wrong. south korea literally doesnt allow private gun ownership. how in the fuck is that having a big gun culture on par with the US? do you know how difficult it is to acquire a glock in korea? next to impossible. the most common firearm in the world isnt even used in the korean police force. also, contrary to foreigners beliefs, south koreans dont live in constant worry or fear of north korea. for all north korea does wrong, it doesnt change the fact that they are still korean by blood. from a social, cultural and religious standpoint, the risk of a korean population turning terrorist and wreaking havoc on neighbouring countries is zero. its just not the kind of people we are; maybe thats why weve always been on the receiving end by china and japan for basically our entire history. the only risk factor for north korea is kim jong un himself, and one thing we can count on is he cares about his own life and kingdom more than picking fights that would 100% end up with him dead. and literally thousands die in north korea every year from starvation. the country is a shambles, living in poverty, basically no infrastructure, basically no trade, no food, the population is uneducated and ignorant and they are governed by a man who pretends to be a divine entity. the ceasefire of the war did not end up being a net positive for the koreans on the north side of the border. the reality is, the entirety of north korea would be objectively better off now if the US-south korean alliance pushed back all the way. of course, thats much easier said than done, and im not suggesting that that should be the play for israel-palestine. the 2 wars are not comparable in the slightest, starting from the extremely crucial point that in the korean war both sides were the same people and didnt fundamentally want to fight each other. thats why the topic of unification has always been a thing for korea, and it will never be the case for israel-palestine
I wasn't talking about gun ownership, but gun culture. South Koreans glorify guns, for example with idols showing up to their fan meets or performances with fake guns and posing and aiming at the crowd and pretending to take shots. That's a real thing over there.
If celebrities did that in my country, we'd very much dislike that and ask them to stop. That's despite us having one of the higher gun ownership rates in the world. Ownership =/= celebration. We own a lot of guns not because we love them but because it's legal. South Koreans don't own guns not because they don't love them but because gun laws are super strict.
Also, I know lots of people die in North Korea. I said tens of thousands, not thousands. And I referred to conflict such as war, not to North Korea's oppression of its own people. And I'm sorry but thousands of people is not tens of thousands of people. If you think thousands should be viewed as equal to tens of thousands, then I don't know where you went to school or where you draw your ethics from.
You may think you scored big with this comment, but no you did not.
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On August 21 2025 23:18 Magic Powers wrote:Show nested quote +On August 21 2025 21:00 evilfatsh1t wrote:On August 14 2025 01:26 Magic Powers wrote:On August 14 2025 00:50 KwarK wrote:
Let’s imagine for a second an exceedingly unlikely scenario. There’s a ceasefire and a new government in Gaza. Iran stops supplying Gazans with weapons and the million young, displaced, radicalized, justifiably vengeful, and propagandized Gazans who grew up under Hamas rule all decide to forgive Israel. No more rocket attacks on Israel, no more answering air strikes. Completely impossible but let’s imagine it anyway.
Let’s imagine what that Gaza looks like. What it’s birth rate looks like. What its employment rate looks like. What its major industries and economic activities are. How its government is financed, how it provides services and so forth. Where people live.
What I’m imagining is still an overcrowded intergenerational refugee camp with no meaningful economic activity taking place, no mobility, wholly dependent upon outside aid, and no end in sight. What I’m imagining is large numbers of people who have been fucked over by the world who are rightfully furious about it. And people with an awful lot of time on their hands to think about how furious they are and with absolutely no prospect of any of the issues changing.
I’m often told I have no empathy for Gazans and I think that that couldn’t be further from the truth. I don’t think they’re evil or inhuman or monsters or whatever, I put myself in their shoes to the extent that I am able and think that their fury is wholly warranted. It makes sense. They’re not evil, they’re normal people reacting to an awful situation.
And my hypothesis that a Gaza under a ceasefire still turns to radical violent politics isn’t exactly untested. I’m arguing it as a hypothetical but we’ve already seen a Gaza under a ceasefire, it turned to Hamas. By the polling Hamas would still win an election held today.
A ceasefire isn’t enough. If we want Gazans to choose peace then we need to give them more than that because right now the argument for an end to violence isn’t convincing Gazans. They need a future they can believe in for themselves and their families and “this but without the airstrikes” doesn’t cut it.
A ceasefire is just things getting worse more slowly for as long as it lasts, and then when it inevitably ends it’ll be back to airstrikes. This is why I referred to other conflicts such as the Korean war, which resulted in a split between two oppressed nations, one becoming prosperous and one remaining oppressed. There are a lot of parallels between Korea and Israel-Palestine. It's a great example showing that oppression and war doesn't have to be the end of things. The two split countries' administrations imposed completely different policies post-war and experienced completely different fates. North Korea is still poor and oppressed while South Korea is rich and, well, very hierarchical but certainly not oppressed, and consistently moving away from corruption and authoritarianism. At the same time Koreans are technically still at war, and the threat is constant. It's so prevalent that South Koreans have a big gun culture that is at least on par with that of US Americans. They celebrate guns. And the military is always ready to strike if it becomes necessary. They're constantly worried. And yet people aren't being slaughtered. The war has turned cold for many years. I don't see a reason why Israel-Palestine doesn't have a realistic chance of experiencing a similar outcome. Sure, one of the sides could remain oppressed. That would presumably be the Palestinians under Hamas rule. But this doesn't mean there has to be a continuous hot war leading to tens of thousands of casualties. North Korea hasn't attacked South Korea in a long time. And that's not because there aren't any tensions on the border. Tensions remain. But it's under control. super late to this because i stopped reading the thread for a while, but holy moly this is a bad take. its such a bad take that its borderline offensive as a korean to see such a comparison being made. on top of that the few details you point to such as south korea having a big gun culture (wtf?) and thousands in north korea not dying every year are straight up wrong. south korea literally doesnt allow private gun ownership. how in the fuck is that having a big gun culture on par with the US? do you know how difficult it is to acquire a glock in korea? next to impossible. the most common firearm in the world isnt even used in the korean police force. also, contrary to foreigners beliefs, south koreans dont live in constant worry or fear of north korea. for all north korea does wrong, it doesnt change the fact that they are still korean by blood. from a social, cultural and religious standpoint, the risk of a korean population turning terrorist and wreaking havoc on neighbouring countries is zero. its just not the kind of people we are; maybe thats why weve always been on the receiving end by china and japan for basically our entire history. the only risk factor for north korea is kim jong un himself, and one thing we can count on is he cares about his own life and kingdom more than picking fights that would 100% end up with him dead. and literally thousands die in north korea every year from starvation. the country is a shambles, living in poverty, basically no infrastructure, basically no trade, no food, the population is uneducated and ignorant and they are governed by a man who pretends to be a divine entity. the ceasefire of the war did not end up being a net positive for the koreans on the north side of the border. the reality is, the entirety of north korea would be objectively better off now if the US-south korean alliance pushed back all the way. of course, thats much easier said than done, and im not suggesting that that should be the play for israel-palestine. the 2 wars are not comparable in the slightest, starting from the extremely crucial point that in the korean war both sides were the same people and didnt fundamentally want to fight each other. thats why the topic of unification has always been a thing for korea, and it will never be the case for israel-palestine I wasn't talking about gun ownership, but gun culture. South Koreans glorify guns, for example with idols showing up to their fan meets or performances with fake guns and posing and aiming at the crowd and pretending to take shots. That's a real thing over there. If celebrities did that in my country, we'd very much dislike that and ask them to stop. That's despite us having one of the higher gun ownership rates in the world. Ownership =/= celebration. We own a lot of guns not because we love them but because it's legal. South Koreans don't own guns not because they don't love them but because gun laws are super strict. Also, I know lots of people die in North Korea. I said tens of thousands, not thousands. And I referred to conflict such as war, not to North Korea's oppression of its own people. And I'm sorry but thousands of people is not tens of thousands of people. If you think thousands should be viewed as equal to tens of thousands, then I don't know where you went to school or where you draw your ethics from. You may think you scored big with this comment, but no you did not.
wow youre actually doubling down on your stupid take. cant say im surprised since its you, but seriously.
south koreans dont glorify guns. at least not anymore than any other country in the world. entertainers making poses with hand signs is your idea of evidence to support that? what a joke. and dont try that bullshit again where you deflect a point by picking on differences in words. you said gun culture on par with the US. explain to me how a country can have gun culture on par with america when gun ownership literally doesnt even exist? when guns were banned across the country do you think there was anywhere near the amount of objection compared to what you would see if the US had tried to ban all guns? your point just completely fails. please dont try to explain to a native korean how we supposedly have the same gun culture as america, its fucking embarrassing. its literally on the level of stupidity as me saying to you that austrians have nazi allegiances because you speak german. straight up doesnt even make sense.
and oh look, picking on semantics again to try and get your point across. well here you go: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1990s_North_Korean_famine
hows that for thousands? is hundreds of thousands enough? or millions? because thats how many died in north korea due to starvation in less than a decade due to the failure of its administration. you dont think thats possible in a place like gaza? up to 3 million people died in north korea during that famine alone, but yeah they should be glad that a ceasefire happened and they ended up stuck as a degenerate 3rd world country right? potentially millions dead from starvation is a satisfactory trade off to a ceasefire, because thats where youre drawing the gaza/nk comparisons right? yeah, glad i didnt get ethics from where you went to school mate. besides, i dont understand how tens of thousands is bad but thousands is suddenly just an acceptable magnitude of deaths? like...wtf is even the point of making this argument? if only thousands died in gaza from starvation every year it would be a good compromise? what?
educate yourself. and if youre called out on your dumbass takes have the humility to pipe down instead of spouting nonsense that just drags your reputation down further.
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On August 22 2025 02:32 evilfatsh1t wrote:Show nested quote +On August 21 2025 23:18 Magic Powers wrote:On August 21 2025 21:00 evilfatsh1t wrote:On August 14 2025 01:26 Magic Powers wrote:On August 14 2025 00:50 KwarK wrote:
Let’s imagine for a second an exceedingly unlikely scenario. There’s a ceasefire and a new government in Gaza. Iran stops supplying Gazans with weapons and the million young, displaced, radicalized, justifiably vengeful, and propagandized Gazans who grew up under Hamas rule all decide to forgive Israel. No more rocket attacks on Israel, no more answering air strikes. Completely impossible but let’s imagine it anyway.
Let’s imagine what that Gaza looks like. What it’s birth rate looks like. What its employment rate looks like. What its major industries and economic activities are. How its government is financed, how it provides services and so forth. Where people live.
What I’m imagining is still an overcrowded intergenerational refugee camp with no meaningful economic activity taking place, no mobility, wholly dependent upon outside aid, and no end in sight. What I’m imagining is large numbers of people who have been fucked over by the world who are rightfully furious about it. And people with an awful lot of time on their hands to think about how furious they are and with absolutely no prospect of any of the issues changing.
I’m often told I have no empathy for Gazans and I think that that couldn’t be further from the truth. I don’t think they’re evil or inhuman or monsters or whatever, I put myself in their shoes to the extent that I am able and think that their fury is wholly warranted. It makes sense. They’re not evil, they’re normal people reacting to an awful situation.
And my hypothesis that a Gaza under a ceasefire still turns to radical violent politics isn’t exactly untested. I’m arguing it as a hypothetical but we’ve already seen a Gaza under a ceasefire, it turned to Hamas. By the polling Hamas would still win an election held today.
A ceasefire isn’t enough. If we want Gazans to choose peace then we need to give them more than that because right now the argument for an end to violence isn’t convincing Gazans. They need a future they can believe in for themselves and their families and “this but without the airstrikes” doesn’t cut it.
A ceasefire is just things getting worse more slowly for as long as it lasts, and then when it inevitably ends it’ll be back to airstrikes. This is why I referred to other conflicts such as the Korean war, which resulted in a split between two oppressed nations, one becoming prosperous and one remaining oppressed. There are a lot of parallels between Korea and Israel-Palestine. It's a great example showing that oppression and war doesn't have to be the end of things. The two split countries' administrations imposed completely different policies post-war and experienced completely different fates. North Korea is still poor and oppressed while South Korea is rich and, well, very hierarchical but certainly not oppressed, and consistently moving away from corruption and authoritarianism. At the same time Koreans are technically still at war, and the threat is constant. It's so prevalent that South Koreans have a big gun culture that is at least on par with that of US Americans. They celebrate guns. And the military is always ready to strike if it becomes necessary. They're constantly worried. And yet people aren't being slaughtered. The war has turned cold for many years. I don't see a reason why Israel-Palestine doesn't have a realistic chance of experiencing a similar outcome. Sure, one of the sides could remain oppressed. That would presumably be the Palestinians under Hamas rule. But this doesn't mean there has to be a continuous hot war leading to tens of thousands of casualties. North Korea hasn't attacked South Korea in a long time. And that's not because there aren't any tensions on the border. Tensions remain. But it's under control. super late to this because i stopped reading the thread for a while, but holy moly this is a bad take. its such a bad take that its borderline offensive as a korean to see such a comparison being made. on top of that the few details you point to such as south korea having a big gun culture (wtf?) and thousands in north korea not dying every year are straight up wrong. south korea literally doesnt allow private gun ownership. how in the fuck is that having a big gun culture on par with the US? do you know how difficult it is to acquire a glock in korea? next to impossible. the most common firearm in the world isnt even used in the korean police force. also, contrary to foreigners beliefs, south koreans dont live in constant worry or fear of north korea. for all north korea does wrong, it doesnt change the fact that they are still korean by blood. from a social, cultural and religious standpoint, the risk of a korean population turning terrorist and wreaking havoc on neighbouring countries is zero. its just not the kind of people we are; maybe thats why weve always been on the receiving end by china and japan for basically our entire history. the only risk factor for north korea is kim jong un himself, and one thing we can count on is he cares about his own life and kingdom more than picking fights that would 100% end up with him dead. and literally thousands die in north korea every year from starvation. the country is a shambles, living in poverty, basically no infrastructure, basically no trade, no food, the population is uneducated and ignorant and they are governed by a man who pretends to be a divine entity. the ceasefire of the war did not end up being a net positive for the koreans on the north side of the border. the reality is, the entirety of north korea would be objectively better off now if the US-south korean alliance pushed back all the way. of course, thats much easier said than done, and im not suggesting that that should be the play for israel-palestine. the 2 wars are not comparable in the slightest, starting from the extremely crucial point that in the korean war both sides were the same people and didnt fundamentally want to fight each other. thats why the topic of unification has always been a thing for korea, and it will never be the case for israel-palestine I wasn't talking about gun ownership, but gun culture. South Koreans glorify guns, for example with idols showing up to their fan meets or performances with fake guns and posing and aiming at the crowd and pretending to take shots. That's a real thing over there. If celebrities did that in my country, we'd very much dislike that and ask them to stop. That's despite us having one of the higher gun ownership rates in the world. Ownership =/= celebration. We own a lot of guns not because we love them but because it's legal. South Koreans don't own guns not because they don't love them but because gun laws are super strict. Also, I know lots of people die in North Korea. I said tens of thousands, not thousands. And I referred to conflict such as war, not to North Korea's oppression of its own people. And I'm sorry but thousands of people is not tens of thousands of people. If you think thousands should be viewed as equal to tens of thousands, then I don't know where you went to school or where you draw your ethics from. You may think you scored big with this comment, but no you did not. wow youre actually doubling down on your stupid take. cant say im surprised since its you, but seriously. south koreans dont glorify guns. at least not anymore than any other country in the world. entertainers making poses with hand signs is your idea of evidence to support that? what a joke. and dont try that bullshit again where you deflect a point by picking on differences in words. you said gun culture on par with the US. explain to me how a country can have gun culture on par with america when gun ownership literally doesnt even exist? when guns were banned across the country do you think there was anywhere near the amount of objection compared to what you would see if the US had tried to ban all guns? your point just completely fails. please dont try to explain to a native korean how we supposedly have the same gun culture as america, its fucking embarrassing. its literally on the level of stupidity as me saying to you that austrians have nazi allegiances because you speak german. straight up doesnt even make sense. and oh look, picking on semantics again to try and get your point across. well here you go: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1990s_North_Korean_faminehows that for thousands? is hundreds of thousands enough? or millions? because thats how many died in north korea due to starvation in less than a decade due to the failure of its administration. you dont think thats possible in a place like gaza? up to 3 million people died in north korea during that famine alone, but yeah they should be glad that a ceasefire happened and they ended up stuck as a degenerate 3rd world country right? potentially millions dead from starvation is a satisfactory trade off to a ceasefire, because thats where youre drawing the gaza/nk comparisons right? yeah, glad i didnt get ethics from where you went to school mate. besides, i dont understand how tens of thousands is bad but thousands is suddenly just an acceptable magnitude of deaths? like...wtf is even the point of making this argument? if only thousands died in gaza from starvation every year it would be a good compromise? what? educate yourself. and if youre called out on your dumbass takes have the humility to pipe down instead of spouting nonsense that just drags your reputation down further.
I will no longer respond to you until you stop insulting me. I'm also not reading your comment because you started it with an insult. I'm just reporting it.
Quit your antagonism and you'll get a response.
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You didn't miss much, it's all bad faith misinterpretions and weird aggression.
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i dont see how ive misinterpreted anything. his point on south koreas "gun culture" is made black and white and its just completely wrong.
his point on north korea was that they seem to get by without seeing "tens of thousands" dying every year and so would be a model case for what could happen to gaza. only problem is hes wrong on the deaths too. so he either admits hes wrong on both factual points or he admits that hes ok with gaza ending up like north korea, where many many people will continue to die, because according to him the korean war is a great parallel to this one.
a stupid take is a stupid take. if youre just gonna run away when confronted about it then why are you even posting
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Its not like we have to make this stuff up or guess one way or the other.
A basic google search makes it pretty obvious there's simply not really any gun culture to speak of South Korea, and what does exist there is pretty niche and very professional, staying well out of the mainstream.
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EPT
