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NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets.
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On July 21 2025 04:28 Jockmcplop wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2025 03:50 BlackJack wrote:On July 21 2025 03:06 Jockmcplop wrote:On July 21 2025 02:15 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 21 2025 02:08 KwarK wrote:+ Show Spoiler +We need a multinational peacekeeping/administration force yesterday, the day before, and every day before that for decades but the realist in me says that we'll never get one.
Even the pro-Palestinian nations like Ireland have done the calculation and concluded that they don't think Gazans are worth a drop of Irish blood.
The world turns and nothing gets better. We hope for a ceasefire as if decades of ceasefire isn't how things got as bad as they are. Even our hopes are that things continue to get worse, but more slowly. You sure you're not a Democrat?  Making things better is hard, but not aiding and abetting genocide is relatively easy. We need to make that the reality in the ostensibly democratic countries we live in. We're reaching the point in the UK where you can be arrested for even politely asking for the government to stop supporting Israel. In the encounter, which she filmed, one officer told her: “Mentioning freedom of Gaza, Israel, genocide, all of that all come under proscribed groups, which are terror groups that have been dictated by the government.”
He went on to say that the phrase “Free Gaza” was “supportive of Palestine Action”, adding it was an offence “to express an opinion or belief that is supportive of a proscribed organisation, namely Palestine Action is an offence under section 12(1A) of the Terrorism Act”. The officer told her she had committed that offence. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/jul/17/armed-police-threatened-to-arrest-kent-protester-for-holding-palestinian-flagNot surprising since the Israel lobby in the UK was so easily able to get rid of a socialist Labour leader and replace him with the current one. *shocked pikachu face* from those of us that have been critical of UK's policing of speech that it has slippery sloped its way to arresting people for criticizing Israel. What you have mostly been critical about is things like that woman telling a bunch of people rioting outside a hotel of asylum seekers to set fire to the hotel, which they then went and tried to do. That's the equivalent of shouting fire in a theatre or other obvious examples of speech that needs policing for public safety reasons. That's not even remotely similar to arresting someone for holding a 'free gaza' sign. The way we got to b had absolutely nothing to do with a.
You must be misremembering something because I don’t defend incitements to violence
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On July 21 2025 04:33 BlackJack wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2025 04:28 Jockmcplop wrote:On July 21 2025 03:50 BlackJack wrote:On July 21 2025 03:06 Jockmcplop wrote:On July 21 2025 02:15 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 21 2025 02:08 KwarK wrote:+ Show Spoiler +We need a multinational peacekeeping/administration force yesterday, the day before, and every day before that for decades but the realist in me says that we'll never get one.
Even the pro-Palestinian nations like Ireland have done the calculation and concluded that they don't think Gazans are worth a drop of Irish blood.
The world turns and nothing gets better. We hope for a ceasefire as if decades of ceasefire isn't how things got as bad as they are. Even our hopes are that things continue to get worse, but more slowly. You sure you're not a Democrat? Making things better is hard, but not aiding and abetting genocide is relatively easy. We need to make that the reality in the ostensibly democratic countries we live in. We're reaching the point in the UK where you can be arrested for even politely asking for the government to stop supporting Israel. In the encounter, which she filmed, one officer told her: “Mentioning freedom of Gaza, Israel, genocide, all of that all come under proscribed groups, which are terror groups that have been dictated by the government.”
He went on to say that the phrase “Free Gaza” was “supportive of Palestine Action”, adding it was an offence “to express an opinion or belief that is supportive of a proscribed organisation, namely Palestine Action is an offence under section 12(1A) of the Terrorism Act”. The officer told her she had committed that offence. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/jul/17/armed-police-threatened-to-arrest-kent-protester-for-holding-palestinian-flagNot surprising since the Israel lobby in the UK was so easily able to get rid of a socialist Labour leader and replace him with the current one. *shocked pikachu face* from those of us that have been critical of UK's policing of speech that it has slippery sloped its way to arresting people for criticizing Israel. What you have mostly been critical about is things like that woman telling a bunch of people rioting outside a hotel of asylum seekers to set fire to the hotel, which they then went and tried to do. That's the equivalent of shouting fire in a theatre or other obvious examples of speech that needs policing for public safety reasons. That's not even remotely similar to arresting someone for holding a 'free gaza' sign. The way we got to b had absolutely nothing to do with a. You must be misremembering something because I don’t defend incitements to violence
I probably am it was ages ago in a different thread and I couldn't be arsed to go looking.
I just assumed tbh because that's been the biggest freedom of speech thing that people of similar political persuasion to yourself have been going on about when it comes to this Labour government.
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On July 21 2025 03:52 RJGooner wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2025 03:16 WombaT wrote:On July 21 2025 02:08 KwarK wrote:We need a multinational peacekeeping/administration force yesterday, the day before, and every day before that for decades but the realist in me says that we'll never get one. Even the pro-Palestinian nations like Ireland have done the calculation and concluded that they don't think Gazans are worth a drop of Irish blood. The world turns and nothing gets better. We hope for a ceasefire as if decades of ceasefire isn't how things got as bad as they are. Even our hopes are that things continue to get worse, but more slowly. I’m not sure that particular calculation has been made in Pro-Palestinian countries. Such a role simply isn’t on the table to reject in the first place. There is a certain lack of enthusiasm for peacekeeping operations, even in somewhere like Ireland but a lot of that comes from being not given the remit to well, keep the peace. You get to stand largely on the periphery of things and lose some soldiers, maybe to Hamas, maybe this time to Hezbollah, or hey maybe it’s the IDF, variety and the spice of life and all that. Indeed, there’s an argument that peacekeeping presence in certain areas just frees up IDF resources. I was listening to a podcast with the bloke who used to command the Irish peacekeeping contingent in the region, and those kinda things were my big takeaways. I do 100% agree that peacekeepers/administrators with some kind of teeth and authority would be a vast, vast improvement on the status quo. Agreed and agree that there would need to be the proper authority to keep the peace. We saw how toothless the Irish operation was in Lebanon. The question is - are there countries that are ready to send their troops into an urban environment with a massive tunnel network and actually conduct counterterrorism operations? I am not convinced - considering that even the "pro-Palestine" countries have done absolutely nothing to help the Palestinians at all in two years. The only real possibility imo is that Arab countries step up and take over administration of Gaza at least for a time. It would be nice for these countries to actually show that they care about Palestinians as a people and not as a political tool. Then there would need to be a campaign of deradicalization combined with investment and rebuilding of the place. I think the IDF would need to be responsible for security in this case. This seems the most likely scenario to me.
Aside from details, the proposal that various countries come together to help govern Gaza isn't so far out there. It's a real proposal with a chance of success.
Among the bigger hurdles is political infighting. There has to be a central authority, and if it's a foreign one then peace can only realistically last until that authority is removed, and then everything's up in the air again. The effort to build a Palestinian-led governance will be tiresome and could continue for decades. Resistance movements will be a thorn in all attempts to give full autonomy to Palestinians.
But all ideas of such nature are speculative until the war ends. Netanyahu's removal is the essential first step.
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United States42632 Posts
Aside from details like every country in the world refusing to participate in such a scheme. But yeah, aside from those it’s basically a done deal.
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Northern Ireland25130 Posts
On July 21 2025 03:50 BlackJack wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2025 03:06 Jockmcplop wrote:On July 21 2025 02:15 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 21 2025 02:08 KwarK wrote:+ Show Spoiler +We need a multinational peacekeeping/administration force yesterday, the day before, and every day before that for decades but the realist in me says that we'll never get one.
Even the pro-Palestinian nations like Ireland have done the calculation and concluded that they don't think Gazans are worth a drop of Irish blood.
The world turns and nothing gets better. We hope for a ceasefire as if decades of ceasefire isn't how things got as bad as they are. Even our hopes are that things continue going to get worse, but more slowly. You sure you're not a Democrat? Making things better is hard, but not aiding and abetting genocide is relatively easy. We need to make that the reality in the ostensibly democratic countries we live in. We're reaching the point in the UK where you can be arrested for even politely asking for the government to stop supporting Israel. In the encounter, which she filmed, one officer told her: “Mentioning freedom of Gaza, Israel, genocide, all of that all come under proscribed groups, which are terror groups that have been dictated by the government.”
He went on to say that the phrase “Free Gaza” was “supportive of Palestine Action”, adding it was an offence “to express an opinion or belief that is supportive of a proscribed organisation, namely Palestine Action is an offence under section 12(1A) of the Terrorism Act”. The officer told her she had committed that offence. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/jul/17/armed-police-threatened-to-arrest-kent-protester-for-holding-palestinian-flagNot surprising since the Israel lobby in the UK was so easily able to get rid of a socialist Labour leader and replace him with the current one. *shocked pikachu face* from those of us that have been critical of UK's policing of speech that it has slippery sloped its way to arresting people for criticizing Israel.
There’s a rather notable lack of prominent folks who’ve banged on about freedom of speech for years speaking up now there’s pretty inarguable clampdowns on basic rights to protest on certain topics.
For some it was only ever about the right to call people niggers on the internet and not much more besides, so I’m rather loath to give them one iota of credit.
Wouldn’t put you in that particular category for the record.
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On July 21 2025 04:36 Jockmcplop wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2025 04:33 BlackJack wrote:On July 21 2025 04:28 Jockmcplop wrote:On July 21 2025 03:50 BlackJack wrote:On July 21 2025 03:06 Jockmcplop wrote:On July 21 2025 02:15 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 21 2025 02:08 KwarK wrote:+ Show Spoiler +We need a multinational peacekeeping/administration force yesterday, the day before, and every day before that for decades but the realist in me says that we'll never get one.
Even the pro-Palestinian nations like Ireland have done the calculation and concluded that they don't think Gazans are worth a drop of Irish blood.
The world turns and nothing gets better. We hope for a ceasefire as if decades of ceasefire isn't how things got as bad as they are. Even our hopes are that things continue to get worse, but more slowly. You sure you're not a Democrat? Making things better is hard, but not aiding and abetting genocide is relatively easy. We need to make that the reality in the ostensibly democratic countries we live in. We're reaching the point in the UK where you can be arrested for even politely asking for the government to stop supporting Israel. In the encounter, which she filmed, one officer told her: “Mentioning freedom of Gaza, Israel, genocide, all of that all come under proscribed groups, which are terror groups that have been dictated by the government.”
He went on to say that the phrase “Free Gaza” was “supportive of Palestine Action”, adding it was an offence “to express an opinion or belief that is supportive of a proscribed organisation, namely Palestine Action is an offence under section 12(1A) of the Terrorism Act”. The officer told her she had committed that offence. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/jul/17/armed-police-threatened-to-arrest-kent-protester-for-holding-palestinian-flagNot surprising since the Israel lobby in the UK was so easily able to get rid of a socialist Labour leader and replace him with the current one. *shocked pikachu face* from those of us that have been critical of UK's policing of speech that it has slippery sloped its way to arresting people for criticizing Israel. What you have mostly been critical about is things like that woman telling a bunch of people rioting outside a hotel of asylum seekers to set fire to the hotel, which they then went and tried to do. That's the equivalent of shouting fire in a theatre or other obvious examples of speech that needs policing for public safety reasons. That's not even remotely similar to arresting someone for holding a 'free gaza' sign. The way we got to b had absolutely nothing to do with a. You must be misremembering something because I don’t defend incitements to violence I probably am it was ages ago in a different thread and I couldn't be arsed to go looking. I just assumed tbh because that's been the biggest freedom of speech thing that people of similar political persuasion to yourself have been going on about when it comes to this Labour government.
It's most likely a result of people offering specious arguments like "if you speak ill of the covid vaccine then people will not take it and then die so it's the same as causing a panic and people dying in a stampede" or "if you promote the lab leak theory it leads to hate crimes against Asian people so it's an incitement of violence against Asian people."
Which is "I kind of see how you got there" but really doesn't make sense at all. The standard is whether something is likely to cause "imminent lawless action." So you probably won't find any quotes of me defending incitements to violence but I'm sure you will find plenty defending what people believe is an incitement to violence but actually doesn't come close.
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I'd be careful about putting those latinos in camps then, it's a slippery slope to putting white people in camps (or something)
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On July 21 2025 04:54 KwarK wrote:
Aside from details like every country in the world refusing to participate in such a scheme. But yeah, aside from those it’s basically a done deal.
We'll see. If that's the case then it would truly solidify that nobody actually cares about the Palestinians - even the "pro-Palestine" countries. The only alternative I can see to some kind of international administration at this point is Israeli military occupation and nobody wants that.
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On July 21 2025 04:20 Magic Powers wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2025 01:09 KwarK wrote:On July 21 2025 01:02 Magic Powers wrote:On July 21 2025 01:01 KwarK wrote:
It’s just a theory about why you’d be so invested in Nazi apologism. And honestly it’s quite a generous theory, there are far worse reasons that someone could deny the crimes of the Wehrmacht than love for a grandparent. "It's just a theory" that warrants you bullying me for years and years and years. Nobody's buying your shit, KwarK. You're the worst person in this whole forum. You: "The Wehrmacht did nothing wrong" Me: "They absolutely did and most people who deny this are neo-Nazis" You: "No they didn't" Me: "It's possible that based on your heritage and family connections your refusal to accept this basic historical fact is driven by an emotional connection rather than Nazism" You: "KwarK is bullying everyone on this forum" You'll note that despite your insistence that I do this to everyone there is a 100% overlap between posters who promote the myth of the Clean Wehrmacht and posters who I accuse of promoting the myth of the Clean Wehrmacht. In any case, speculating that it was due to the family connection was the generous interpretation. And also, and again I'm paraphrasing, was also entirely correct. MP did subsequently admit that I got it right, that Opa was there. Edit: That said, if he really does want to make it clear that he's not a Nazi apologist for the good reason and that his Nazi apologism is entirely due to the bad reason that is, of course, his prerogative. Edit2: Or he could even say that he'd subsequently looked into it and it turns out that the Wehrmacht was actively involved in the mass genocide of Slavs and others on the Eastern Front and that large numbers of the Wehrmacht were complicit, even though there were very few convictions after the war. There's always the option to just say that. People who don't promote the Clean Wehrmacht myth can say that. Except I never said anything of that sort, and every single person sided against you. To this day you don't care that you were outnumbered 10:1. You are the only one. Literally the only one. Nobody agreed with you. That is the mark of a narcissist who can't handle the truth.
In my recollection, you did say those things. I remember making a post explaining how Wehrmacht committed hundreds of massacres in the first months of its occupation of Poland as a rebuttal. We could dig up those posts instead of relying on people's memory.
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On July 21 2025 04:28 Jockmcplop wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2025 03:50 BlackJack wrote:On July 21 2025 03:06 Jockmcplop wrote:On July 21 2025 02:15 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 21 2025 02:08 KwarK wrote:+ Show Spoiler +We need a multinational peacekeeping/administration force yesterday, the day before, and every day before that for decades but the realist in me says that we'll never get one.
Even the pro-Palestinian nations like Ireland have done the calculation and concluded that they don't think Gazans are worth a drop of Irish blood.
The world turns and nothing gets better. We hope for a ceasefire as if decades of ceasefire isn't how things got as bad as they are. Even our hopes are that things continue to get worse, but more slowly. You sure you're not a Democrat? Making things better is hard, but not aiding and abetting genocide is relatively easy. We need to make that the reality in the ostensibly democratic countries we live in. We're reaching the point in the UK where you can be arrested for even politely asking for the government to stop supporting Israel. In the encounter, which she filmed, one officer told her: “Mentioning freedom of Gaza, Israel, genocide, all of that all come under proscribed groups, which are terror groups that have been dictated by the government.”
He went on to say that the phrase “Free Gaza” was “supportive of Palestine Action”, adding it was an offence “to express an opinion or belief that is supportive of a proscribed organisation, namely Palestine Action is an offence under section 12(1A) of the Terrorism Act”. The officer told her she had committed that offence. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/jul/17/armed-police-threatened-to-arrest-kent-protester-for-holding-palestinian-flagNot surprising since the Israel lobby in the UK was so easily able to get rid of a socialist Labour leader and replace him with the current one. *shocked pikachu face* from those of us that have been critical of UK's policing of speech that it has slippery sloped its way to arresting people for criticizing Israel. What you have mostly been critical about is things like that woman telling a bunch of people rioting outside a hotel of asylum seekers to set fire to the hotel, which they then went and tried to do. That's the equivalent of shouting fire in a theatre or other obvious examples of speech that needs policing for public safety reasons. That's not even remotely similar to arresting someone for holding a 'free gaza' sign. The way we got to b had absolutely nothing to do with a. This is actually less to do with free speech laws and more to do with anti-terrorism laws being incredibly badly applied by the government. The decision to proscribe Palestine Action as a terrorist group was reached after they broke into an army base and painted an aeroplane. They have never planned or executed a terrorist attack, but the government simply doesn't like the pro-Palestine message because it was Israel who put Starmer where he is. Therefore, by applying these anti-terror laws to Palestine Action, any speech that 'supports' Palestine Action becomes illegal because you are supporting a terror group. Because they aren't a terror group, but one that simply conveys the pro-Palestine message, any pro-Palestine speech can now be interpreted by idiot cops as illegal. I don't think it would ever make it through the courts because its obviously bullshit.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/06/26/palestine-action-plans-strike-next-raf-bases/?ICID=continue_without_subscribing_reg_first
According to the media, they were actively planning acts of sabotage against a number of military bases. What's curious is how those pro-Palestinian groups target bases, companies, and aid centers across Europe helping Ukraine/Ukrainians.
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On July 21 2025 06:29 maybenexttime wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2025 04:20 Magic Powers wrote:On July 21 2025 01:09 KwarK wrote:On July 21 2025 01:02 Magic Powers wrote:On July 21 2025 01:01 KwarK wrote:
It’s just a theory about why you’d be so invested in Nazi apologism. And honestly it’s quite a generous theory, there are far worse reasons that someone could deny the crimes of the Wehrmacht than love for a grandparent. "It's just a theory" that warrants you bullying me for years and years and years. Nobody's buying your shit, KwarK. You're the worst person in this whole forum. You: "The Wehrmacht did nothing wrong" Me: "They absolutely did and most people who deny this are neo-Nazis" You: "No they didn't" Me: "It's possible that based on your heritage and family connections your refusal to accept this basic historical fact is driven by an emotional connection rather than Nazism" You: "KwarK is bullying everyone on this forum" You'll note that despite your insistence that I do this to everyone there is a 100% overlap between posters who promote the myth of the Clean Wehrmacht and posters who I accuse of promoting the myth of the Clean Wehrmacht. In any case, speculating that it was due to the family connection was the generous interpretation. And also, and again I'm paraphrasing, was also entirely correct. MP did subsequently admit that I got it right, that Opa was there. Edit: That said, if he really does want to make it clear that he's not a Nazi apologist for the good reason and that his Nazi apologism is entirely due to the bad reason that is, of course, his prerogative. Edit2: Or he could even say that he'd subsequently looked into it and it turns out that the Wehrmacht was actively involved in the mass genocide of Slavs and others on the Eastern Front and that large numbers of the Wehrmacht were complicit, even though there were very few convictions after the war. There's always the option to just say that. People who don't promote the Clean Wehrmacht myth can say that. Except I never said anything of that sort, and every single person sided against you. To this day you don't care that you were outnumbered 10:1. You are the only one. Literally the only one. Nobody agreed with you. That is the mark of a narcissist who can't handle the truth. In my recollection, you did say those things. I remember making a post explaining how Wehrmacht committed hundreds of massacres in the first months of its occupation of Poland as a rebuttal. We could dig up those posts instead of relying on people's memory.
I never said the Wehrmacht is innocent or anything even remotely close to that. KwarK is bullshitting ya'll. He should just drop this, but he doesn't want to. It's the only thing he has that could justify his vengeful behavior.
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It was very close to that. Which thread was it in? This one? The Ukraine war one?
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On July 21 2025 06:35 maybenexttime wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2025 04:28 Jockmcplop wrote:On July 21 2025 03:50 BlackJack wrote:On July 21 2025 03:06 Jockmcplop wrote:On July 21 2025 02:15 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 21 2025 02:08 KwarK wrote:+ Show Spoiler +We need a multinational peacekeeping/administration force yesterday, the day before, and every day before that for decades but the realist in me says that we'll never get one.
Even the pro-Palestinian nations like Ireland have done the calculation and concluded that they don't think Gazans are worth a drop of Irish blood.
The world turns and nothing gets better. We hope for a ceasefire as if decades of ceasefire isn't how things got as bad as they are. Even our hopes are that things continue to get worse, but more slowly. You sure you're not a Democrat? Making things better is hard, but not aiding and abetting genocide is relatively easy. We need to make that the reality in the ostensibly democratic countries we live in. We're reaching the point in the UK where you can be arrested for even politely asking for the government to stop supporting Israel. In the encounter, which she filmed, one officer told her: “Mentioning freedom of Gaza, Israel, genocide, all of that all come under proscribed groups, which are terror groups that have been dictated by the government.”
He went on to say that the phrase “Free Gaza” was “supportive of Palestine Action”, adding it was an offence “to express an opinion or belief that is supportive of a proscribed organisation, namely Palestine Action is an offence under section 12(1A) of the Terrorism Act”. The officer told her she had committed that offence. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/jul/17/armed-police-threatened-to-arrest-kent-protester-for-holding-palestinian-flagNot surprising since the Israel lobby in the UK was so easily able to get rid of a socialist Labour leader and replace him with the current one. *shocked pikachu face* from those of us that have been critical of UK's policing of speech that it has slippery sloped its way to arresting people for criticizing Israel. What you have mostly been critical about is things like that woman telling a bunch of people rioting outside a hotel of asylum seekers to set fire to the hotel, which they then went and tried to do. That's the equivalent of shouting fire in a theatre or other obvious examples of speech that needs policing for public safety reasons. That's not even remotely similar to arresting someone for holding a 'free gaza' sign. The way we got to b had absolutely nothing to do with a. This is actually less to do with free speech laws and more to do with anti-terrorism laws being incredibly badly applied by the government. The decision to proscribe Palestine Action as a terrorist group was reached after they broke into an army base and painted an aeroplane. They have never planned or executed a terrorist attack, but the government simply doesn't like the pro-Palestine message because it was Israel who put Starmer where he is. Therefore, by applying these anti-terror laws to Palestine Action, any speech that 'supports' Palestine Action becomes illegal because you are supporting a terror group. Because they aren't a terror group, but one that simply conveys the pro-Palestine message, any pro-Palestine speech can now be interpreted by idiot cops as illegal. I don't think it would ever make it through the courts because its obviously bullshit. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/06/26/palestine-action-plans-strike-next-raf-bases/?ICID=continue_without_subscribing_reg_firstAccording to the media, they were actively planning acts of sabotage against a number of military bases. What's curious is how those pro-Palestinian groups target bases, companies, and aid centers across Europe helping Ukraine/Ukrainians.
Actively planning sabotage like a single mention of breaking things with sledgehammers conversationally and lots of talk of locking yourself to gates.
These are NOT terrorist attacks.
There is no possible definition of terrorism that could include Palestine Action.
The way wording in this article is used compared to the evidence of what was actually said is completely insane.
Here are the ACTUAL quotes from the recordings of the meeting for anyone who doesn't want to pay for the torygraph:
The organiser said: “The conviction and courage it takes to take this action in the first place is accepting that level of sacrifice.”
She said there were currently 19 members of the group in prison and boasted that activists consisted of everyone from “nursery teachers to surgeons” and “from 18 to 80-year-olds”.
She added: “As much as we can stand by our morals and our ethics, we have to know for a fact we have to be well informed that there are risks that we are taking – that is both legal consequences especially as time has gone on, things have gotten worse in the legal framework and what results we are getting in the courtrooms, but also psychologically and financially.”
“We encourage all to join but we do not pressure people into doing things that make them uncomfortable.”
Recruits were warned that if they were arrested, Palestine Action would not pay their legal fees but would offer “support”.
An “arrest support group” would be on hand to help those detained and recruits were told that if they did not have enough money to pay legal costs, they could rely on legal aid.
The organiser said: “We do not use duty solicitors. [Our lawyers] will apply for legal aid on your behalf if eligible.
“And everybody, as I said, even if you’re a millionaire, you get free legal advice in the police station.”
The organiser said: “There is obviously a risk of getting arrested but the aim is not to get arrested.
“It means covering up anything that might make you identifiable, doing the action at a certain time, making sure it is as quick as possible, and essentially trying to get away at the end of it.”
She said that the actions could be categorised as low risk, mid risk, high risk and extra high risk.
She added: “Essentially, whether it’s locking yourself on, whether it’s getting up on a factory and, starting to hit everything that you can find with the sledgehammer and everything in between, whether it’s being in front of the gates... we’ve seen so many examples of this, there are so many different ways of disrupting.”
The recruits were told not to speak about actions to anyone outside the group or to share the identity of anyone participating in attacks.
“We do not provide police with any information that may compromise activists, actions or the movement… cause comes first”, the organiser added.
Now I'm not saying people should agree with these actions.
Hopefully everyone agrees that even the most draconian, ignorant interpretation of anything said here can't possibly end up with the conclusion that these guys are a terrorist group. More like a protest group that at its worst, is out of control (it sounds to me more like they just support whatever people want to do really - which is a very risky strategy), but mostly just does direct action like any other protest group.
They did paint that aeroplane though.
Oh and maybenexttime, this is not 'actively planning acts of sabotage', nothing given in that article is anything of the sort.
Its more like a verbal information leaflet on what support you might get from the group if you decide to plan an act of sabotage, with the locations of a few possible targets.
And this has literally nothing to do with Ukraine. It is targeting bases and factories that supply Israel with weapons.
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United States42632 Posts
On July 21 2025 06:58 maybenexttime wrote:
It was very close to that. Which thread was it in? This one? The Ukraine war one?
Yep, Ukraine one. Explaining that the Russian troops in Ukraine were no more complicit in war crimes than the Wehrmacht in Poland, which is, incidentally, something I do actually agree with.
If I recall correctly he clarified that all the German soldiers involved with war crimes were tried and convicted and any German soldier not convicted was completely innocent. That left an awful lot of Eastern Europeans civilians who were shot by nobody at all.
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On July 21 2025 06:58 maybenexttime wrote:
It was very close to that. Which thread was it in? This one? The Ukraine war one?
Either the Ukraine war thread or US politics, I don't remember which one. Feel free to quote my posts.
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On July 21 2025 05:27 RJGooner wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2025 04:54 KwarK wrote:
Aside from details like every country in the world refusing to participate in such a scheme. But yeah, aside from those it’s basically a done deal. We'll see. If that's the case then it would truly solidify that nobody actually cares about the Palestinians - even the "pro-Palestine" countries. The only alternative I can see to some kind of international administration at this point is Israeli military occupation and nobody wants that. Lots of people care about the plight of Palestinians, no one wants to assume responsibility of a 2 million people refugee camp with a significant radicalized population that is going to take generations to even begin to fix.
And that is before you get into the amount of money required that will see no realistic return.
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On July 20 2025 16:11 Magic Powers wrote:Show nested quote +On July 20 2025 08:35 Sermokala wrote:On July 20 2025 06:30 Magic Powers wrote:On July 20 2025 04:45 Sermokala wrote:
MP you're the one who invented Kwark calling them rabbits out of thin air. You're the one who chose to call them animals instead of human beings. The idea that you can invent what someone else said and then give them responsibility for that is silly. I invented nothing. His comment is racist, and I don't care how much you defend him. I didn't call them animals, you made that up. If you don't know the phrase, that's your problem. Your defense of KwarK's racist comment speaks pretty loudly, too. You called them rabbits MP, you can't "its just a phrase" away the choice of words you made. Trying to gaslight people and refusing to acknowledge your mistake would work a lot better if it wasn't through text. Constantly trying to make Kwarks comment racist doesn't make it racist. People in an open air mixed sex prison with nothing to do reproduce a lot. Thats got nothing to do with their race it would happen with any group of mixed sex people with nothing to do with their time and can't go anywhere. On July 20 2025 06:40 Uldridge wrote:
What happens when the Ouroboros gets to its own head? It doesn't, It would be a form of mercy for the torture the ouroboros is in for it to end. Part of the horror of the ouroboros is the inherent, inescapable torment that it finds itself in. The consumption of itself fuels its growth, causing more consumption to occur. Its a greater philosophical statement on the cycles that humanity could break to better itself and the deceptivly simple answers to them. "Just stop eating your own tail" to a beast that Is cursed to eat itself constantly. Sermokola, you're embarrassing yourself. My words are the interpretation of KwarK's words. He said they reproduce like rabbits, not me. This is also not the first time KwarK has been openly racist. He's also openly in favor of mass deportation of illegal non-citizens in the US. Show nested quote +On June 10 2025 07:59 KwarK wrote:On June 10 2025 07:56 WombaT wrote:I have a bad history with polls, they usually actively disprove my intuition, but hey nout wrong with data. Also for this hypothetical poll, we’re assuming some relatively benign detection and enforcement mechanisms Poll: Should non-criminal illegal migrants face deportation?Yes (18) 67% No (9) 33% 27 total votes Your vote: Should non-criminal illegal migrants face deportation? (Vote): Yes
(Vote): No
Yes, they should be deported. But they should be deported humanely, lawfully, to their home countries, and subject to appeal. So if the person is a citizen then they get a chance to tell that to a judge, even if ICE have them mixed up with a non citizen. A process whereby someone the state identifies as a non citizen is seized in secret and sent to a foreign prison in secret without the knowledge of their family and without access to any legal recourse is just disappearing people. We have rules that govern the state monopoly on violence, there are legal limits to what they can do. If the police arrest you then you have to go with them and plead your innocence to a court. If secret police try to disappear you then they’re acting outside of the scope of the social contract and you don’t have to do shit. The foreign prison part is bananas because of their insistence on a loophole that the foreign part exempts it from the judicial system because foreign = executive. Indefinite imprisonment without trial is not the same thing as border control. https://tl.net/forum/general/532255-us-politics-mega-thread?page=5010#100188
Your interpretation of his post was that they reproduce like rabbits, you said the word not him. You're trying to gaslight people into thinking that he called them animals when it was literally you. You can hide behind all the different excuses but I'm not attacking your reasoning for useing them I'm literaly just stateing that you said they were rabbits.
You can't just state your opinion about someone else as fact and then use that opinion as your factual evidence of something happening. Thats not how any of this works. The fact is that he didn't call them animals, he didn't say anything about their race or any unique trait of palestinians. You thought what he said was racist, then potrayed what he said in a racist way, then started claiming what your interpretation of what he said was the truth. Thats gaslighting people into believing not reality, but what you want them to believe. Again this is text, its very easy to go back to see who said rabbit and who didn't.
You can't say you're a "free speech advocate" and then act surprised when people act like you support incitements to violence. At that point you're not a free speech advocate your an advocate to protect the speech you agree with and not the speech you don't agree with.
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Seems like al-Hirij broke the deal again, for I think the 3rd time (attacking security forces, not doing the planned prisoner/hostage transfers).
Also turned away aid for the second time because it's from the government.
This is insane. There were literally tribal forces around and inside the city before they pulled back and probably the only reason they didn't take it outright at that point was a combination of diplomacy and syrian government forces blocking the roads into the province to stop tribal supplies and reinforcements from arriving.
Israel needs to take this idiot out on one of their helicopters or if he refuses to go they seriously need to consider an airstrike to take him out so someone else can take command.
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On July 21 2025 07:11 Magic Powers wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2025 06:58 maybenexttime wrote:
It was very close to that. Which thread was it in? This one? The Ukraine war one? Either the Ukraine war thread or US politics, I don't remember which one. Feel free to quote my posts.
Found it. As far as I'm concerned, you were clearly suggesting that the lack of convictions was evidence for the soldiers' lack of complicity in war crimes. In reality, regular Wehrmacht troops committed hundreds of massacres in occupied Poland during the first months of the war. Worse, ordinary ethnic German citizens of Poland were forming so-called "self-defense units" and massacring Poles and Jews on their own.
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Northern Ireland25130 Posts
I dunno, it was just a general shitshow far as I could tell (I went looking for it earlier).
Power of the Magic variety’s initial post yeah that’s fair but his subsequent posts gave me rather a different impressions rrrthan him batting for the Wehrmacht.
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EPT
